| Monday, April 15th, 2013, 00:02 UTC | ||
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| [00:13:46] | mattwj2002: | hi all |
| [00:13:57] | Oleg_: | I am just curious about something. When recording something with a VCR, you can switch to different channel and watch it; however, if you record something with a dvr and have only one tuner, then you can only switch to the channel that is on the same multiplex? |
| [00:14:53] | Oleg_: | Doesn't it mean that in some way, a VCR has an advantage over a DVR? |
| [00:15:17] | mattwj2002: | Oleg_: |
| [00:15:31] | wagnerrp: | when recording with a vcr, if you change the channel on a vcr, then you change the channel of what you're recording |
| [00:15:33] | mattwj2002: | how are you switching off with a VCR? |
| [00:15:37] | wagnerrp: | VCRs only have one tuner |
| [00:15:47] | mattwj2002: | VCRS |
| [00:16:00] | ** mattwj2002 worries he landed back in the 80s ** | |
| [00:16:01] | mattwj2002: | :P |
| [00:16:15] | mattwj2002: | my dad still loves the idea of vcr |
| [00:16:17] | mattwj2002: | :P |
| [00:16:20] | wagnerrp: | are you turning the modulator on the VCR off, and passing the signal through to the TV, so the TV can tune independently? |
| [00:16:43] | wagnerrp: | in which case you have two tuners? one for the VCR, and one for the TV? |
| [00:16:44] | Oleg_: | the last time I used a VCR was in the 90s, but I am just curious about it |
| [00:16:52] | Oleg_: | wagnerrp, oh, you're right |
| [00:16:54] | mattwj2002: | vcr = very crappy recorder ;) |
| [00:17:30] | mattwj2002: | I think most physical media will be elimated soon |
| [00:17:33] | mattwj2002: | to be honest |
| [00:17:37] | mattwj2002: | I am not happy about that |
| [00:17:52] | mattwj2002: | dvds, bluray, and CDs gone |
| [00:18:06] | Oleg_: | wagnerrp, but if a person has just one tuner and he uses mythtv as a dvr, then he can only switch to the channel that is on the same multiplex when he's recording something |
| [00:18:15] | wagnerrp: | uh huh? |
| [00:19:18] | Oleg_: | wagnerrp, let's assume I am recording channel 11_1. Then I can't switch to channel 2_1 if I have just one tuner. I am talking about recording something with mythtv |
| [00:19:42] | wagnerrp: | that depends |
| [00:19:56] | wagnerrp: | 11_1 and 2_1 are just arbitrary virtual channel identifiers |
| [00:20:09] | wagnerrp: | there is nothing explicitly preventing those two from existing on the same physical multiplex |
| [00:20:22] | Oleg_: | but they are not on the same multiplex |
| [00:20:28] | Oleg_: | I am talking about NYC channels |
| [00:20:36] | Oleg_: | 2_1 is WCBS in New York |
| [00:20:43] | wagnerrp: | if they are not on the same multiplex, then you need two tuners to capture them |
| [00:20:45] | Oleg_: | and 11_1 is WPIX in New York |
| [00:20:56] | mattwj2002: | yup |
| [00:21:12] | wagnerrp: | it's that way with mythtv, it's that way with a VCR |
| [00:21:40] | mattwj2002: | mythtv is better |
| [00:21:41] | mattwj2002: | :) |
| [00:22:23] | mattwj2002: | I would like to see the pile of tapes to records weeks worth of content |
| [00:22:24] | mattwj2002: | ;) |
| [00:23:09] | wagnerrp: | can i choose the type of tape? |
| [00:23:12] | Oleg_: | wagnerrp, it's just that I realized only now that the only reason I was able to switch to a different channel when recording something with a VCR was because a TV had its own tuner |
| [00:23:21] | mattwj2002: | sure wagnerrp |
| [00:23:25] | mattwj2002: | but it has to be along |
| [00:23:34] | mattwj2002: | *analog |
| [00:24:19] | wagnerrp: | so i can use something like LTO-6? |
| [00:24:44] | MrGarfield: | Thanks for any help going to bed 2 morow there is an other day :D |
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| [00:25:04] | mattwj2002: | no |
| [00:25:08] | mattwj2002: | that is digital |
| [00:25:13] | wagnerrp: | it's analog |
| [00:25:28] | wagnerrp: | it gets decoded into digital data, but it is stored in an analog format |
| [00:26:50] | mattwj2002: | haha wagnerrp |
| [00:26:53] | mattwj2002: | okay fine |
| [00:27:00] | mattwj2002: | it has to be a vhs tape |
| [00:27:03] | mattwj2002: | ;) |
| [00:28:17] | wagnerrp: | you can get upwards of 40 hours on a D-VHS tape (of course it's awful quality) |
| [00:28:56] | mattwj2002: | okay |
| [00:32:18] | mattwj2002: | what is d vhs? |
| [00:35:02] | mattwj2002: | wagnerrp: it makes me sad |
| [00:35:12] | mattwj2002: | so many formats are now gone! |
| [00:35:33] | wagnerrp: | DV stored on VHS tape |
| [00:35:48] | wagnerrp: | it was primarily used for professional studios |
| [00:35:57] | wagnerrp: | although there were some consumer units |
| [00:36:20] | wagnerrp: | they're actually the reason why cable companies were required to make active firewire ports on their cable boxes available |
| [00:36:27] | wagnerrp: | for use with digital VCRs |
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| [00:37:43] | mattwj2002: | oh crazy |
| [00:38:41] | tonsofpcs: | wagnerrp: I wonder how much D-VHS you can cram onto an hour long quad... |
| [00:39:09] | mattwj2002: | I have a crazy thought |
| [00:39:23] | mattwj2002: | have any of you heard of using a a vcr for backing up data |
| [00:39:26] | tonsofpcs: | yes |
| [00:39:38] | mattwj2002: | I mean regular vcr not d vhs |
| [00:39:49] | tonsofpcs: | yes |
| [00:40:02] | tonsofpcs: | there were at least two commercial implementations |
| [00:40:57] | mattwj2002: | that is cool |
| [00:41:05] | tonsofpcs: | http://articles.latimes.com/1985-11-08/busine . . . microsystems |
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| [00:41:47] | mattwj2002: | 1985 |
| [00:41:48] | mattwj2002: | :P |
| [00:42:25] | tonsofpcs: | Corvus was doing it in 1983 apparently |
| [00:42:27] | tonsofpcs: | "Corvus Mirror" |
| [00:42:35] | tonsofpcs: | (at least, they had a price for it in 1983) |
| [00:42:59] | tonsofpcs: | http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/corvus/br . . . 20Mirror.pdf |
| [00:43:02] | mattwj2002: | you don't see stuff like that anymroe |
| [00:43:13] | tonsofpcs: | the flower is what sells it there :-p |
| [00:43:24] | wagnerrp: | that's because hard drives are dirt cheap |
| [00:43:29] | ** tonsofpcs works in a facility with more tapes than hard disks ** | |
| [00:43:42] | wagnerrp: | the only value to tape these days is long term archival storage |
| [00:44:02] | tonsofpcs: | half of those tapes are older than I, I'm sure |
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| [00:45:04] | mattwj2002: | I have a question |
| [00:45:23] | mattwj2002: | does anyone know where you can buy a new vhs recorder without a dvd player? |
| [00:45:51] | wagnerrp: | a thrift store or flea market? |
| [00:45:57] | mattwj2002: | new |
| [00:46:09] | mattwj2002: | ? |
| [00:46:11] | wagnerrp: | you could probably find an unopened one somewhere |
| [00:46:28] | mattwj2002: | my dad wants one |
| [00:46:29] | mattwj2002: | :) |
| [00:46:48] | wagnerrp: | slap him around a bit |
| [00:46:54] | mattwj2002: | lol |
| [00:48:38] | wagnerrp: | seriously. the only reason to buy a VHS player is because you have some home videos you want to digitize |
| [00:48:58] | wagnerrp: | actually, you can buy new VHS decks for explicitly that purpose |
| [00:49:11] | wagnerrp: | they behave like a normal VHS deck, but have an encoder and USB output |
| [00:49:43] | mattwj2002: | he was also wondering about buying an 8 track player |
| [00:49:45] | mattwj2002: | :P |
| [00:49:47] | mattwj2002: | jk |
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| [01:03:34] | tonsofpcs: | mattwj2002: 8track players are probably more likely |
| [01:03:45] | tonsofpcs: | that said, new VHS decks are probably available if you know where to look |
| [01:03:59] | mattwj2002: | okay |
| [01:04:42] | tonsofpcs: | ah, an AG-1980 for $1889.99 :D |
| [01:05:14] | mattwj2002: | :D |
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| [01:07:16] | tonsofpcs: | ah, here we go, a $200 daewoo and a $230 sony |
| [01:07:20] | tonsofpcs: | and a $300 sanyo |
| [01:07:40] | tonsofpcs: | http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SV-5000W-Worldw . . . /B00004TEUK/ is a really nice deck. |
| [01:08:01] | tonsofpcs: | (and works as a stand-alone format converter) |
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| [01:56:48] | tonsofpcs: | @$^*@($^*( CBS.... 56 minutes late.... |
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| [02:04:49] | Oleg_: | speaking of CBS, we still have to wait for two weeks before they air the next episode of Person of Interest |
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| [02:35:52] | Oleg_: | whatcha think about the fact that broadcast networks usually air 22 or more episodes per every television show? |
| [02:36:01] | Oleg_: | do you think they should adopt the cabel model? |
| [02:36:25] | Oleg_: | Cabel channels usually air 10, 12, or 13 episodes |
| [02:36:46] | Oleg_: | per every television show |
| [02:49:38] | wagnerrp: | cable networks also receive a small fraction of the viewership as the big four broadcast networks |
| [02:50:03] | wagnerrp: | and thus only have a small fraction of the revenue to spend on making full length seasons |
| [03:06:44] | Oleg_: | but these days, the Walking Dead receives better demo ratings than any broadcast show |
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| [03:09:05] | wagnerrp: | cable networks are lucky to get more than a couple million viewers, even on a popular show like The Walking Dead |
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| [03:09:24] | wagnerrp: | broadcast networks consider a show to be failing if it doesn't get ten million viewers |
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| [03:11:25] | wagnerrp: | http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/04/02/s . . . more/175901/ |
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| [03:11:33] | wagnerrp: | the walking dead is pretty much off the charts with those numbers |
| [03:11:42] | wagnerrp: | and that's for their season finale |
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| [03:15:25] | Oleg_: | but broadcast networks only care about the viewers between the ages 18 through 49 |
| [03:15:27] | wagnerrp: | by comparison, last week, The Voice, Dancing with the Stars (mon), the Big Bang Theory (mon, repeat), The Voice, NCIS, NCIS:LA, Dancing with the Stars (tues), American Idol (wed), Modern Family, Criminal Minds, CSI, American Idol (thurs), The Big Bang Theory (thurs, repeat), and Blue Bloods all topped 10M viewers |
| [03:16:21] | wagnerrp: | plus there was the NCAA finals which hit 20M |
| [03:17:29] | Oleg_: | isn't it true that TWD is the highest rated scriptedshow (for ages 18 through 49) on television? |
| [03:17:50] | wagnerrp: | no, it's not |
| [03:17:57] | wagnerrp: | one of the NCISs probably gets that |
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| [03:20:54] | wagnerrp: | according to neilson, the season finale of The Walking Dead had 12.5M viewers, with 6.4 in the 18–49 demographic |
| [03:21:26] | wagnerrp: | by comparison, an average mid-season NCIS on Tuesday did 16.7M viewers, with 8M in the 18–49 demographic |
| [03:23:05] | wagnerrp: | thursday's rerun of The Big Bang Theory did 10M in that demographic |
| [03:24:02] | wagnerrp: | and monday's rerun of that show did 9M |
| [03:24:12] | wagnerrp: | monday's rerun of Two Broke Girls did 8M |
| [03:25:06] | wagnerrp: | on Wednesday, Modern Family did 10M, Criminal Minds did 8M, How To Live With Your Parents and CSI both did 7M |
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| [03:28:53] | Oleg_: | well, recently some articles on the internet appeared, describing how broadcast television is declining and cable television is flourishing |
| [03:29:18] | wagnerrp: | of course you must understand that is all relative |
| [03:29:41] | wagnerrp: | it's like saying AMD has made great strides in their linux support |
| [03:30:03] | wagnerrp: | but that doesn't mean the support isn't poor and their graphic hardware generally avoided |
| [03:30:27] | Oleg_: | I guess so |
| [03:31:01] | wagnerrp: | what they said isn't incorrect, but it is misleading |
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| [03:50:31] | tonsofpcs: | wagnerrp: according to Nielsen, I can't exist, so take Nielsen with a grain of salt ;) |
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| [04:42:38] | Korny: | Evening |
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| [06:33:04] | mzb: | I disabled lossless transcodes a while ago as they seemed to be causing problems |
| [06:33:23] | mzb: | examining the problem now I appear to be getting the old "no more queue slots" problem |
| [06:33:52] | mzb: | the recordings in question are DVB-T mpeg2 (au) and ffmpeg -i reports: |
| [06:34:09] | mzb: | Duration: 02:24:59.51, start: 24785.336122, bitrate: 12916 kb/s |
| [06:34:10] | mzb: | Program 1 |
| [06:34:10] | mzb: | Stream #0:0[0xe1b]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] / 0x0002), yuv420p, 1440x1080 [SAR 4:3 DAR 16:9], 11900 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc |
| [06:34:10] | mzb: | Stream #0:1[0xe1c](eng): Audio: ac3 ([129][0][0][0] / 0x0081), 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 448 kb/s |
| [06:34:10] | mzb: | Stream #0:2[0xe1d](eng): Subtitle: dvb_teletext ([6][0][0][0] / 0x0006) |
| [06:34:11] | mzb: | Stream #0:3[0x1f4b]: Unknown: none ([11][0][0][0] / 0x000B) |
| [06:34:54] | mzb: | hmm ... slightly longer paste than intended, sorry |
| [06:35:08] | mzb: | any ideas/suggestions on how to debug/fix this? |
| [06:36:35] | mzb: | the addition of a new 3TB drive will get me past the problem for now, but I'm looking for a nicer solution given that I need pre/post of 10/20mins just to cover Australian programming schedules (that aren't quite;)) |
| [06:39:10] | mzb: | I was in the process of writing a small script that looks for recordings with cuts and transcodes them ... my intention is to run this overnight as a cronjob (possibly prior to a backend shutdown to save power?) |
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| [06:45:50] | mzb: | maybe I can map the stream out with ffmpeg prior to the cut? |
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| [06:57:22] | mzb: | nope, that didn't work |
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| [09:52:05] | dekarl-work: | mzb: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/2077#comment:42 |
| [09:52:40] | dekarl-work: | I assume you're running fixes/0.26 |
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| [15:39:59] | DaveInTO: | any guides to mythexport? i tried setting this up a couple months ago..without success going to give it another go today |
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| [15:47:51] | DaveInTO: | I have 2 recording directories lots of the scripts i see use a hard coded folder in the script which wouldn't work here |
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| [16:12:50] | eee-blt: | I have a question about controlling volume from within mythtv. |
| [16:13:26] | eee-blt: | I installed the mythtv frontend onto an existing 12.04 xubuntu installation. |
| [16:14:50] | eee-blt: | The volume applet indicates mythtvfrontend is controlling the volume, but it is not. I can control volume directly from the applet. |
| [16:15:03] | eee-blt: | Any ideas on how to correct this? |
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| [16:35:50] | runelind: | With Comcast starting to encrypt basic channels over the coming months, does that mean that myth users are left out in the cold on those encrypted channels? |
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| [16:51:10] | bitHipy: | runelind: no, use your cable box to decrypt them |
| [16:51:59] | bitHipy: | runelind: or perhaps better yet, ditch that crappy company.. they're unethical |
| [16:53:51] | bitHipy: | runelind: fyi, comcast supports cispa.. paying lobbyists w/ money they got from you |
| [17:09:09] | runelind: | bitHipy: well I have literally no other choice where I live. |
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| [17:12:02] | tgm4883: | runelind, I'd assume that a cablecard would still work. Are they just encrypting and not setting extra CC flags? |
| [17:12:13] | runelind: | I'm not sure. |
| [17:21:21] | bitHipy: | how might one discover secret remote control signals for a cable box? is brute force the only option? |
| [17:22:05] | bitHipy: | i have some annoying buttons that are *toggles*.. which means the next state is dependant on the previous |
| [17:22:13] | bitHipy: | like the "power" button |
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| [17:42:41] | rickb: | hello! I am going to be ordering a tunner card or something from my cable company soon to avoid buying another box and paying their "rental" fee. All is legal but does mythtv support these cards? |
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| [17:46:16] | tgm4883: | rickb, depends on the cable company |
| [17:46:17] | bitHipy: | rickb: some cards, yes |
| [17:46:18] | sphery: | rickb: yes and no: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable#CableCARD |
| [17:46:24] | rickb: | oh cool |
| [17:46:28] | sphery: | but you'll only get the "copy freely" channels |
| [17:46:32] | sphery: | meaning those without DRM |
| [17:46:48] | rickb: | ah is that the difference between standard QAM and QAM256? |
| [17:48:24] | sphery: | DRM means that cable company only allows you to use the content the way they want--i.e. with their equipment or CableCARD certified hardware and software |
| [17:49:02] | sphery: | F/LOSS applications can never be CableCARD certified because the only way their DRM works is by hiding keys and such |
| [17:49:44] | sphery: | so we can only use CableCARD when the cable company uses it solely for access restriction--i.e. to ensure you only get those channels to which you've subscribed |
| [17:50:18] | sphery: | if the cable company also marks the content as "copy once" or "copy never", we can't use it because it's encrypted garbage |
| [17:52:59] | sphery: | rickb: for the quick ansewr, what cable company? |
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| [17:56:25] | rickb: | sphery: time warner cable |
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| [17:59:20] | bitHipy: | this is an interesting statement from the wiki "Comcast, Verizon FiOS, Astound, and RCN generally have customer friendly copy protection flagging, whereas the opposite is true of Cox and Time Warner Cable." |
| [17:59:58] | bitHipy: | why wouldn't Comcast and Verizon force you to buy their DVR, as Time Warner does? |
| [18:00:22] | bitHipy: | (assuming this is what the flagging is for) |
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| [18:02:29] | bitHipy: | surely consumers aren't smart enough to care about the flagging.. American consumers just buy whatever the market pressures them to buy |
| [18:08:37] | StevenR: | Hi. I've a problem when I try to record two programmes that start at the same time. Neither are recorded. I have two DVB USB sticks, configured with 6 encoders |
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| [18:09:15] | StevenR: | it doesn't flag them as a conflict or anything... just doesn't record anything, though I see an entry for each programme in the "watch recordings" |
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| [18:14:01] | SteveGoodey: | StevenR: First question will be anything in the logs? |
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| [18:17:07] | DaveInTO: | so actually i just tried to reset up mytheexport using the interface...might be working..might not..not sure..i just see this mythexport_addjob in my queue |
| [18:17:11] | DaveInTO: | for the last 30 minutes |
| [18:17:28] | StevenR: | SteveGoodey: yes. It says it starts the recording. No errors. Seems to pick a separate tuner for each recording. |
| [18:17:41] | StevenR: | SteveGoodey: If they start at slightly different times, it can record them both |
| [18:17:58] | StevenR: | i.e. If I offset them by a couple of mins |
| [18:18:25] | DaveInTO: | seems like its working. |
| [18:20:04] | StevenR: | SteveGoodey: but when I got to play them, it can't find the files |
| [18:20:22] | StevenR: | or comes up with a status/metadata type page, but no recording |
| [18:20:26] | bitHipy: | anyone hack their remote? |
| [18:21:06] | bitHipy: | there are codes like 0xC33 0xC34 0xC35 0xC37 0xC39 |
| [18:21:20] | bitHipy: | what happened to 0xC36 and 0xC38? |
| [18:21:26] | bitHipy: | why were they skipped |
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| [18:23:56] | sphery: | rickb: Time Warner marks nearly all channels as copy once, meaning the only option for recording Time Warner digital cable for use with MythTV is analog capture (so, the only option for high-definition is the Hauppauge HD-PVR) ... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable#HD_component |
| [18:25:49] | bitHipy: | Novii Remote knows more signals than LIRC.. why is that? Where did NOVII Remote developers get their information? |
| [18:26:08] | sphery: | StevenR: Almost definitely a problem with your input connections configuration... You'll need to "Delete all video sources" and possibly "Delete all capture cards" (not "Delete all capture cards on <hostname>") and re-configure everything properly. The hard part is not repeating the same mistake you made the first time. |
| [18:26:33] | sphery: | StevenR: it could be a problem with permissions or something, though you should see errors in the logs if that's the case |
| [18:26:35] | rickb: | sphery: oh but i would still need the access card though right? |
| [18:27:09] | sphery: | rickb: you would need a full-fledged cable company set-top box to receive the signal and output an analog version of it via Component |
| [18:27:35] | sphery: | (so you really need an STB with component output--which may get harder and harder to find as HDMI becomes more common) |
| [18:27:59] | StevenR: | sphery: well.... both tuners work, so it suggests there's no permissions problems.... but how do I know what mistake I made last time? |
| [18:28:15] | rickb: | ohhh ok |
| [18:28:17] | rickb: | i see |
| [18:28:24] | sphery: | so, cablecard is useless to (nearly?) all time warner cable customers, and can't save them on STB rentals--instead they need the STB and an HD-PVR for each contiguous recording capability they want |
| [18:28:40] | sphery: | StevenR: they work /in mythtv/ when used at different times? |
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| [18:28:55] | StevenR: | sphery: they work concurrently |
| [18:29:01] | sphery: | when used in mythtv |
| [18:29:08] | sphery: | because mythbackend is run as a particular use |
| [18:29:09] | sphery: | user |
| [18:29:21] | sphery: | and that user needs permissions to capture card devices and file systems and ... |
| [18:29:43] | StevenR: | sphery: i.e. if I start a recording on bbc one at 6:01 and a recording on E4 at 6:02... that will work. Same mythbackend process doing both recordings. |
| [18:29:44] | sphery: | so comparing "from my user account on the command line" or "inside <other program>" isn't a good test |
| [18:30:04] | StevenR: | sphery: but if both recordings start at 6:01.... both will fail |
| [18:30:20] | StevenR: | or rather, both appear to record, but leave me with no recordings |
| [18:30:23] | sphery: | StevenR: Nova T? |
| [18:30:48] | StevenR: | Hauppauge Nova-T Stick 3 |
| [18:31:10] | StevenR: | sphery: yes |
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| [18:32:03] | sphery: | StevenR: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11403 ? |
| [18:33:50] | sphery: | StevenR: actually, that's the wrong ticket... what version of mythtv are you using? |
| [18:34:33] | StevenR: | MythTV Version : v0.25.2-15-g46cab93 |
| [18:36:18] | sphery: | hmmm, in theory you have the fix for http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10870 |
| [18:36:34] | sphery: | not sure what it could be then |
| [18:37:05] | sphery: | best bet is to talk to others who are using that same stick--so mention which one when asking |
| [18:37:27] | sphery: | and you could try the mythtv-users mailing list, also, to get more "eyes on" (but slower response times) |
| [18:41:56] | SteveGoodey: | !url tuners |
| [18:41:56] | MythLogBot: | tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information |
| [18:42:17] | SteveGoodey: | Sorry just testing. |
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| [18:44:31] | StevenR: | sphery: 10870 doesn't seem to apply to me, as I'm recording on different multiplexes |
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| [18:56:04] | gpd: | anyone else reporting issues with DVB-T channels missing in UK? |
| [18:57:27] | StevenR: | gpd: I've not noticed anything so far, but I only get a subset |
| [18:57:53] | gpd: | StevenR: thanks – must be something up with my system :( |
| [19:03:02] | SteveGoodey: | gpd: http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/mytvregion/granada |
| [19:03:23] | sphery: | gpd: see [mythtv-users] UK Freeview Winter Hill New Channel Frequencies. |
| [19:03:31] | sphery: | in mailing list archive |
| [19:04:45] | gpd: | hmm – says retune on 10 April... that makes sense |
| [19:05:24] | gpd: | I've just retuned but I can't seem to work out how to switch to the other tuner |
| [19:05:40] | gpd: | if I press C or Y it just shows that I am watching Tuner 2 – but I can't switch to 1... |
| [19:06:22] | SteveGoodey: | gpd: Try pressing menu, you can switch tuners there. |
| [19:08:06] | gpd: | SteveGoodey: Playback Menu? can't find anything obvious |
| [19:08:25] | SteveGoodey: | Yeah it's a bit hidden. |
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| [19:08:51] | gpd: | source would be obvious but only Jump to Program in there |
| [19:09:01] | sphery: | gpd: there's no key mapped by default to switch tuners |
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| [19:09:33] | sphery: | you have to either use MENU, then find the option in there to do it (under Sources or something?) or map a key to NEXTCARD |
| [19:10:34] | gpd: | ok – thanks |
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| [19:12:23] | SteveGoodey: | gpd: Menu, Select source, This from some guy called mtdean! |
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| [19:17:42] | bobp127001: | So aside from an R5000-HD, is there any way to cap copy-once HDTV w/out copy protection? Analog hole/HDCP decryption notwithstanding... |
| [19:18:45] | sphery: | no |
| [19:19:05] | sphery: | and even the R5000 isn't supported (and may be illegal or, at minimum, a violation of ToS) |
| [19:19:46] | bobp127001: | Figured… I guess a modified sat box with a legitimate subscription is edging close to signal piracy (even if you are only receiving what you pay for) |
| [19:20:01] | bobp127001: | And I didn't know the R5000 was even sketchy. |
| [19:20:32] | bobp127001: | I thought it was fine because there was no decryption. It just piggybacks on an unencrypted data bus as far as I understand, which would be legal under the DMCA. |
| [19:20:37] | sphery: | yeah, it's a question for your lawyers and clerics, I suppose |
| [19:21:25] | sphery: | but we don't support it because we don't have the money to fight if Dish were to sue or whatever |
| [19:21:42] | bobp127001: | Oh, okay. That makes lots of sense. |
| [19:21:52] | bobp127001: | I'm sure there are non-official patches, etc out there. |
| [19:22:06] | sphery: | so, really, the only way for HDTV if your provider uses DRM is HD-PVR |
| [19:22:22] | sphery: | and that only works if your provider gives you analog output from the STB |
| [19:22:53] | bobp127001: | Well HDCP has been pretty thoroughly cracked at this point, so you can always cap from the HDMI source — I just don't know how you would. I'm not an expert at this stuff |
| [19:22:54] | sphery: | (ideally Component, so you can do HDTV--otherwise, you'd use an HVR-2250 or something, and capture the analog in SDTV) |
| [19:23:12] | sphery: | that actually isn't at all useful |
| [19:23:15] | bobp127001: | Really? |
| [19:23:44] | bobp127001: | So an HDMI capture card plus an HDCP decrypter isn't a valid path? |
| [19:24:20] | bobp127001: | It's certainly expensive, but < $500 USD I think. |
| [19:24:22] | sphery: | there are no hdmi capture cards supported by V4L2 API |
| [19:24:33] | bobp127001: | Ahh okay. |
| [19:25:24] | sphery: | closest you can find, probably, is Windows only--and some of those are "unencrypted HDMI only" (like the Hauppauge one--which is really only meant for capturing output of your PS3 or XBox 360 so you can post the high-def clips to YouTube and amaze your friends) |
| [19:25:31] | bobp127001: | But the theory is fine, you could do it on Windows? |
| [19:26:01] | bobp127001: | Yeah, it's funny. The PS3 is a pushing force for HDCP strippers :) Gameplay from the PS3 is HDCP protected |
| [19:26:04] | sphery: | in Windows, the HDMI capture cards would all have to be compliant with HDMI spec--meaning they'd have to actually respect the protection |
| [19:26:49] | bobp127001: | Yes, naturally. Strippers are a reasonable price however. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-1-3-1x2-1-to-2-1 . . . 51165409775? |
| [19:26:53] | sphery: | which is why they actually ripped out the core hardware abstraction layer and replaced it with another one for Windows Vista (causing device manufacturers to have to redesign/rewrite drivers from scratch, causing Vista to get a name for being terrible/crashy) |
| [19:27:19] | sphery: | they did it so that they could put in the protections required to allow Windows to handle DRM'ed content |
| [19:27:25] | sphery: | without ever exposing unencrypted data |
| [19:27:27] | bobp127001: | Am I right in thinking you're talking about PBDA, protected broadcast driver architecture? |
| [19:27:41] | sphery: | could be |
| [19:27:50] | bobp127001: | I'm quite frankly staggered there isn't a .wtv drm stripper yet |
| [19:27:58] | bobp127001: | It must have been extremely well implemented |
| [19:28:23] | sphery: | if you can get .wtv files, why not just use Windows MCE? |
| [19:28:35] | sphery: | in which case, the DRM isn't an issue |
| [19:28:37] | bobp127001: | Good point. |
| [19:28:45] | bobp127001: | I guess I sort of like the idea of unprotected transport streams |
| [19:28:51] | bobp127001: | More of a theoretical than anything else |
| [19:29:00] | sphery: | basically, though, MCE may work for someone on TWC, even with TWC's copy-once restrictions |
| [19:29:20] | bobp127001: | Rip out the closed captions, transcode, do whatever you want with the digital stream |
| [19:29:26] | sphery: | but MythTV can't... You have to get unencrypted video for MythTV, which means going through analog |
| [19:29:49] | sphery: | well, technically, in the US, you're only allowed to time shift recorded content |
| [19:29:56] | sphery: | meaning you watch it once, later, then delete |
| [19:30:15] | sphery: | and some say that "later" must be within a reasonable time (where I've heard times as aggressive as within 30 days of broadcast) |
| [19:30:24] | bobp127001: | I didn't know that. I thought fair use allowed archiving |
| [19:30:25] | sphery: | in other words, you don't own the content you record |
| [19:30:53] | clever: | sphery: could you bend the rules by re-watching it once for every time it has aired while your system is on? |
| [19:30:56] | sphery: | you get to watch it once, just like you would have when it aired, but fair use allows you to watch it at your convenience |
| [19:31:04] | clever: | technicaly, you could have recorded every one of those airings |
| [19:31:20] | sphery: | clever: pretty sure to be completely within the rules, you'd have to cap it once for every time you watch it |
| [19:31:22] | bobp127001: | Wow, so burning a personal season DVD, saving yourself whatever, 30 bucks, is illegal. I didn't know that |
| [19:31:43] | sphery: | which is also why the "cloud DVR" company in New York City had to set up a separate TV antenna for /every/ single customer |
| [19:32:02] | bobp127001: | I guess you guys have to be pretty aware of the law |
| [19:32:15] | bobp127001: | Make sure you aren't gonna get the open source community / the project in trouble |
| [19:32:51] | sphery: | clever: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/09/news_ . . . m_broadcast/ |
| [19:33:01] | sphery: | Aereo is the company |
| [19:33:14] | sheppard: | hahaha |
| [19:33:14] | sphery: | https://aereo.com/ |
| [19:33:14] | sheppard: | DO IT |
| [19:33:16] | sheppard: | DO IT FOX |
| [19:33:21] | sheppard: | MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE |
| [19:33:24] | sphery: | hehe |
| [19:33:37] | bobp127001: | Anyone have a NYC VPN? :P |
| [19:33:57] | sphery: | funny, though, how Aereo had to set up thousands of antennas to be able to record TV for their customers |
| [19:34:20] | clever: | id question if they even are doing that, those antennas sound oddly small |
| [19:34:30] | clever: | more likely they are making it up to claim they are within the law |
| [19:34:41] | bobp127001: | I'm surprised FOX is so butthurt. I guess they allow commercial time shifting |
| [19:34:46] | sphery: | especially when cable companies started out with homeowners getting together and erecting one huge antenna and then sending the signal it received to multiple residences, because it wasn't feasible to have huge antennas on each property |
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| [19:35:47] | sphery: | clever: I also wondered if those antennas were actually doing the receiving (or at least "all" of the receiving) |
| [19:36:00] | bobp127001: | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/geolocater/ |
| [19:36:24] | sphery: | but I suppose you only have to have sufficient funds to pay sufficient lawyers to convince a (not-necessarily-technically-competent) judge that it works |
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| [19:44:44] | ViperSBT: | Can anyone point me to some good resources regarding HDTV Outdoor Antennas? |
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| [20:40:34] | bobp127001: | does abc still implement program time compression? |
| [20:40:46] | bobp127001: | they used to compress the framerate to fit in another commercial |
| [20:41:00] | bobp127001: | or i guess speed up playback |
| [20:44:52] | sheppard: | wow |
| [20:44:55] | sheppard: | thats pretty sleazy |
| [20:46:38] | sphery: | hehe, funny |
| [20:47:51] | sphery: | since I watch everything at 1.5x or 1.75x (depending on how much/little I like it), I wonder if that means I watch some of my ABC shows at something like 1.8x or ... |
| [20:48:25] | bobp127001: | very minimal speedup, human eye it's pretty much negligible, but it absolutely messes with an ivtc |
| [20:48:34] | bobp127001: | http://www.avsforum.com/t/1326461/abc-time-co . . . -programming |
| [20:48:56] | bobp127001: | looks like they do it by just dropping frames whenever they feel like it, then blending the two frames on each side |
| [20:49:40] | sphery: | yeah, in truth, at 1.25x, few people can tell a difference unless: a) they play a song the person knows well or b) they show a full-body shot of a person walking (showing hands and legs) or c) they show a "physical event" (such as a side view of a ball being thrown and arcing through the air) |
| [20:50:11] | sphery: | I often watch shows at 1.25x when I have company and no one has ever figured it out until I told them |
| [20:50:15] | sphery: | (and I've even asked :) |
| [20:50:26] | bobp127001: | i may start doing that |
| [20:50:36] | bobp127001: | huge time saver… |
| [20:50:46] | sphery: | at 1.5x, though, you have to start to focus. At 1.75x, you have to be completely focused. |
| [20:50:57] | sphery: | I can't do 2x |
| [20:50:59] | sheppard: | like a LASER BEAM |
| [20:51:16] | sheppard: | sphery: I've never tried accelerated playback. |
| [20:51:31] | sphery: | and don't see enough real-time difference trying to push beyond 1.75x to worry about 1.8 or 1.85x |
| [20:51:54] | sphery: | "time stretch" is a huge part of the reason I love MythTV |
| [20:52:25] | bobp127001: | explosion at jfk library as well |
| [20:52:28] | bobp127001: | oops |
| [20:52:52] | sphery: | I can't even handle watching TV on hotel TVs, anymore, because it's so slow, so when I travel for work, I carry recordings and watch things I want to watch and watch them at faster than real time |
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| [20:55:45] | Tobbe5178: | i'm having an issue with mythfilldatabase and one single channel |
| [20:56:01] | Tobbe5178: | no matter what i do i cant convince mythfilldatabase to refresh this channel |
| [20:56:10] | Tobbe5178: | xmltvid is ok for the channel |
| [20:56:20] | Tobbe5178: | and xmltv can download data |
| [20:56:35] | Tobbe5178: | and i've tried to force a refresh |
| [20:57:00] | sphery: | wagnerrp: a multiplexer for what? (16:06:45 on http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/1/2013-04-13:15:24 )? |
| [20:57:01] | Tobbe5178: | any ideas? |
| [20:57:59] | sphery: | wagnerrp: also, thought you might like http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/134006656 . . . ergy-storage (plus http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/14/velkess_flywheel/ ) |
| [20:58:18] | sphery: | Tobbe5178: what are you trying to change? |
| [20:58:30] | sphery: | mythfilldatabase doesn't change channels, it only updates channel listings |
| [20:58:36] | Tobbe5178: | exactly |
| [20:58:40] | Tobbe5178: | i'm not changing anything |
| [20:58:45] | sphery: | so what are you trying to do? |
| [20:58:55] | sphery: | you're saying the channel has no listings data? |
| [20:58:55] | Tobbe5178: | just running mythfilldatgabase but it doesnt insert data for one channel |
| [20:59:00] | Tobbe5178: | exactly |
| [20:59:08] | sphery: | has it ever had data? |
| [20:59:18] | Tobbe5178: | yes |
| [20:59:35] | Tobbe5178: | wait a sec... |
| [21:00:17] | Tobbe5178: | i edited the wrong xmltv config file |
| [21:00:26] | sphery: | ah, that could be related. :) |
| [21:00:41] | sphery: | I hope so, becaues I don't know xmltv well (I'm in the US, so I use Schedules Direct) |
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| [21:01:37] | sphery: | Tobbe5178: from you question I thought you were doing what a lot of US users try to do, which is somehow get mythfilldatabase to change their channel information after their cable company shuffles the position of channels in their lineup |
| [21:02:17] | Tobbe5178: | ok |
| [21:02:29] | sphery: | just explaining why I mentioned that it doesn't change channels... |
| [21:02:34] | Tobbe5178: | no, i'm used to doing things manualy |
| [21:02:42] | sphery: | in other words, you're using mythfilldatabase correctly, so ignore me :) |
| [21:03:12] | Tobbe5178: | i must have forgotten about that channel when i changed xmltv grabers |
| [21:03:35] | Tobbe5178: | and i probably didnt notice at first since i already had data from old graber for about 2 weeks |
| [21:03:58] | sphery: | hehe, yeah |
| [21:04:20] | sphery: | that's pretty common--we don't often look out too far in the listings |
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| [22:30:55] | ubuntuaddicted: | hi guys, i have a backup created with mythbackup.pl of 0.21+fixes that I want to restore to a newly installed mythbuntu 12.04.2 mythtv 0.26 |
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| [22:37:38] | ubuntuaddicted: | is it ok to do a full restore so I have my recording schedules and recordings? |
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| [22:42:55] | mickey62ga: | does anyone have mythtv working with bev or dish |
| [22:48:14] | wagnerrp: | bev? |
| [22:48:27] | wagnerrp: | dish network? |
| [22:49:40] | wagnerrp: | assuming you're talking about satellite tv, you need to capture analog from their box |
| [22:49:54] | wagnerrp: | and you need something like an IR blaster to allow mythtv to change channels on their box |
| [22:51:51] | ubuntuaddicted: | can I restore a mythconverg backup of 0.21+fixes to a newly installed mythtv 0.26 system> |
| [22:54:02] | mickey62ga: | i mean with dvb-s card |
| [22:54:07] | mickey62ga: | and oscam + newcamd |
| [22:54:36] | mickey62ga: | or sasc-ng |
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| [22:59:04] | ubuntuaddicted: | no one can answer my question about doing a full restore of an older mythconverg backup? |
| [22:59:23] | mzb: | I don't recall ever trying it |
| [23:02:14] | mzb: | not completely, anyway |
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| [23:03:17] | mzb: | "restoration" after a "colossal event" has usually involved doing stuff "by hand" |
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| [23:04:27] | mzb: | Number of episodes:29343 |
| [23:04:27] | mzb: | First recording:Saturday September 29th, 2007 |
| [23:04:53] | mzb: | which would now be quite an horrific procedure, I'd imagine ;) |
| [23:05:44] | mzb: | ubuntuaddicted: it might pay to do a backup of whatever you've got right now (with as many methods as you can think of) before trying anything |
| [23:06:08] | mzb: | although that being said, it probably depends on what you're trying to achieve |
| [23:07:28] | ubuntuaddicted: | mzb, i did a backup, yes |
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| [23:08:02] | mzb: | I mean "various means" in the event you might want to merge *some* of the data later |
| [23:08:18] | mzb: | (rather than a complete database dump) |
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| [23:08:45] | ubuntuaddicted: | i used mythback.pl |
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| [23:09:17] | mzb: | why do you want to do this? |
| [23:11:18] | ubuntuaddicted: | because I need to upgrade to a newer mythbackend |
| [23:11:48] | mzb: | why is a database restoration required? |
| [23:11:53] | ubuntuaddicted: | i was using ubuntu 10.04.4 and mythtv 0.21+fixes. I went to ubuntu 12.04.2 and now mythtv 0.26 |
| [23:12:05] | ubuntuaddicted: | because of all my recordings and recording schedules |
| [23:12:26] | mzb: | by "went" I assume you didn't upgrade ... it's a fresh install |
| [23:12:52] | mzb: | and that the new install is "virgin" ... ie: it's never been used |
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| [23:14:20] | mzb: | I'm not completely sure that a restoration like that will work ... when you start the backend or go into mythtvsetup it will attempt to incrementally upgrade I think ... but 0.21 to 0.26 is a HUGE jump |
| [23:15:08] | ubuntuaddicted: | yes, fresh install |
| [23:15:42] | mzb: | it *might* work ... wait for an expert ... the "no one can answer" approach won't get the answer you want |
| [23:15:52] | mzb: | or ... just try it and see |
| [23:16:41] | mzb: | sorry, but I've never tried such a huge jump in versions |
| [23:33:32] | ubuntuaddicted: | is generally the way to upgrade to a new mythtv version to use the backup script? |
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