MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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Current users (166):

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Thursday, September 15th, 2011, 00:04 UTC
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[00:22:54] westlock3: Does xbmc use mythtv?
[00:24:44] ThisNewGuy: sphery: Thanks! Does --logpath do any auto log rotating?
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[00:30:48] wagnerrp: westlock3: xbmc and mythtv are completely independent projects
[00:30:51] wagnerrp: neither uses the other
[00:30:57] wagnerrp: they both use ffmpeg for decoding
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[00:31:30] sphery: ThisNewGuy: no, you'll need to set up a real log-rotation program if you want that functionality
[00:31:36] ThisNewGuy: k – thanks
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[00:32:36] westlock3: Are there any working scrapers for mythvideo that retrieve iafd.com or adultdvdempire or otherwise to retrieve metadata? Someone must have this solution...
[00:33:12] k-man: when I try and compile mythtv on osx, with firewire support, I get this error: http://pastie.org/2534699
[00:33:18] k-man: OSX lion that is
[00:33:20] k-man: any ideas?
[00:34:53] k-man: maybe just disable it for now
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[00:37:14] wagnerrp: westlock3: i dont think most people care enough about their porn to catalog it
[00:37:40] wagnerrp: its a small community, mythtv is another small community
[00:37:52] wagnerrp: its entirely possible the two have never overlapped
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[00:44:15] westlock3: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?p=249524#post249524 I don't see mythtv users being much different. Have actually found reference to some mythtv-users that mention it so it is entirely possible that people do care enough about their porn to catalog it even though it is a small community. I'm not good with xml but http://trac.xbmc.org/raw-attachment/.../Excalibur.xml
[00:44:38] wagnerrp: its not that mythtv users are any different
[00:44:47] wagnerrp: its that there simply arent as many
[00:44:50] westlock3: http://trac.xbmc.org/raw-attachment/ticket/6155/Excalibur.xml
[00:44:56] wagnerrp: the xbmc community is vastly larger than the mythtv community
[00:45:24] westlock3: I suppose.
[00:45:59] wagnerrp: the large the community, the more likely you are going to find people who want to do that, and more importantly, the more likely you are going to find someone who has taken the time to develop a solution
[00:46:20] wagnerrp: thats the real problem
[00:46:34] wagnerrp: rough estimates put our community somewhere around 40–60k users
[00:46:50] wagnerrp: theres all of a couple hundred who have ever submitted a patch
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[00:47:32] wagnerrp: now part of it is on us, because some patches have been sitting on trac for years
[00:48:06] wagnerrp: but by and large, the open source community is filled with users, rather than contributors
[00:48:56] wagnerrp: all im saying is that out of a smallish community, and a smallish subset of those who give something back to the community, its not all that surprising
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[00:56:13] westlock3: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV_Universal_Metadata_Format Is that page inclusive of only listing results obtained by the python-imdb bindings or can it be changed to parse another source?
[00:56:59] wagnerrp: mythtv does not pull any data from IMDB, as IMDB does not allow scrapers, and pulling data out of their several hundred MB database dump is rather cumbersome
[00:57:34] wagnerrp: that page depicts a generic metadata response format
[00:57:56] wagnerrp: anything that adheres to that format can be used as a metadata grabber
[00:58:56] wagnerrp: currently, that means grabbers for themoviedb, thetvdb, and giantbomb
[00:59:13] wagnerrp: one user is supposedly working on a grabber for allocine
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[00:59:32] wagnerrp: ive heard talk of someone wanting to do one for tvrage, but never heard of anything from it
[01:00:02] wagnerrp: seems theres a grabber script for MAWS too
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[01:23:07] mattwj2002: hi all
[01:23:16] mattwj2002: xris are you there?
[01:24:08] mattwj2002: wagnerrp: are you here?
[01:25:07] mattwj2002: anyone here?
[01:25:29] mattwj2002: tomorrow morning I am thinking about ordering the WinTV-DCR-2650 from wintv.com
[01:26:07] mattwj2002: I was hoping to talk to you guys about it tonight though
[01:26:17] ** stoth coughs **
[01:26:55] mattwj2002: hi stoth
[01:29:39] mattwj2002: stoth are you here/
[01:29:40] mattwj2002: ?
[01:30:06] Gumby: quick question... should a boob like me be using the latest git version or should I stick with the 0.24.1 tar.bz2
[01:30:34] stoth: mattwj2002: yes
[01:31:09] mattwj2002: hi stoth do you know anything about the WinTV-DCR-2650?
[01:31:35] stoth: mattwj2002: a little
[01:31:58] mattwj2002: do you know if I activate it under windows media center if I could use it under mythtv
[01:31:59] mattwj2002: ?
[01:32:13] mattwj2002: I thought activating it in windows might be more painless
[01:32:48] stoth: mattwj2002: Yes
[01:33:14] mattwj2002: sweet
[01:33:15] slickrick: if some of my over the air stations don't have xmlid's what is another way to get them? (besides copying the xmlid from the analog equivalent i mean)
[01:33:56] mattwj2002: I really hate that I have to go through comcast to activate it
[01:34:03] wagnerrp: mattwj2002: i dont actually have one, and xris hasnt actually used his
[01:34:04] mattwj2002: but hey it'll be nice when it is done
[01:34:15] wagnerrp: there has been a lot of discussion on the mailing list you may want to read through
[01:34:23] mattwj2002: ok
[01:35:05] wagnerrp: slickrick: im not sure i understand
[01:35:15] wagnerrp: anything listed by schedules direct will have an xmltvid
[01:35:42] wagnerrp: anything not listed by schedules direct should be forwarded to schedules direct, so they can get it added
[01:35:50] slickrick: wagnerrp: mine done seem to. the american stations are fine, but the canadian stations seems to be lacking one.
[01:36:07] slickrick: i have been looking up the xml id for the analog channels and setting it for the hd ones.
[01:36:12] wagnerrp: is it listed on the schedules direct web page?
[01:36:14] slickrick: as a temporary solution.
[01:36:20] slickrick: the station is, yes.
[01:36:28] wagnerrp: and when you mouse over it, you see the XMLTV ID?
[01:36:56] slickrick: sigh. i didn't realize you could mouse over.
[01:37:00] slickrick: thanks wagnerrp.
[01:38:22] slickrick: could it be that the channel is listed as CIIIDT on schedules direct and in myhtv its listed as CIII-HD? whcih i think it got from scanning?
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[01:39:14] wagnerrp: when mythfilldatabase runs, it tries to match up the scanned channels with those on your schedules direct lineup as best as possible
[01:39:24] wagnerrp: but if the names are different, theres not much it can do
[01:39:32] slickrick: okay that makes sense.
[01:40:01] slickrick: is it worthwhile reporting that to schedules direct? it seems like they have callsigns (is that what their called?) wrong.
[01:41:01] tgm4883: slickrick, I'd say yes, although I'm unsure if they have the ability to fix anything yet
[01:41:08] wagnerrp: you could, they forward it up the chain to tribune
[01:41:14] wagnerrp: i dont know if tribune would do anything at that point
[01:41:21] slickrick: okay. i will make some notes and forward it along to them.
[01:41:25] slickrick: thanks for the help.
[01:41:31] tgm4883: wagnerrp, They have fixed things in the past for me
[01:41:42] tgm4883: mostly in terms of incorrect NFL stuff on directv
[01:42:04] mattwj2002: wagnerrp: according to the mailing list they say it works with mythtv just like an hdhomerun prime
[01:42:26] wagnerrp: mattwj2002: thats because it /is/ an hdhomerun prime
[01:42:37] wagnerrp: physically, you open two of them up, theyre the same exact thing
[01:42:40] mattwj2002: was there anything weird I should be looking at?
[01:42:46] wagnerrp: such as?
[01:42:47] tgm4883: I didn't read too much backlog, but you could change the callsign on your backend as well
[01:42:56] mattwj2002: you told me to look at the mailing list
[01:43:19] wagnerrp: no, i mean if youre curious, im sure just about all of your questions have been asked in there already
[01:43:34] mattwj2002: oh okay :)
[01:43:49] wagnerrp: tgm4883: if hes going in there to edit the call sign so mythfilldatabase can automatically figure out what it is
[01:44:02] wagnerrp: he may as well just set the xmltvid directly and bypass the whole matter entirely
[01:44:21] mattwj2002: wagnerrp: do you know if it is only one cable card or two?
[01:44:22] tgm4883: wagnerrp, I guess that is true, I wasn't entirely sure what the issue was
[01:44:39] tgm4883: I think I was more thinking multiple SD sources with different callsigns but are the same channel
[01:44:48] wagnerrp: one cablecard powers up to six tuners
[01:45:06] wagnerrp: the ceton uses four, the hdhomerun uses three, the wintv uses two
[01:45:22] mattwj2002: so it will tune the encypted paid for channels on two tuners
[01:45:28] mattwj2002: ?
[01:45:36] wagnerrp: that device will use one cablecard to power both tuners
[01:45:45] mattwj2002: thank you
[01:45:56] wagnerrp: all three devices, you only need to insert one cable card
[01:46:14] wagnerrp: it must be a multi-stream card
[01:46:22] mattwj2002: I thought the hdhomerun only had one cable card tuner though
[01:46:38] mattwj2002: instead of 3
[01:46:43] wagnerrp: the hdhomerun has one cablecard, that powers three tuners
[01:47:02] mattwj2002: what?
[01:47:04] wagnerrp: the wintv has one cablecard that powers two tuners, with a third present but deactivated
[01:47:04] mattwj2002: O_O
[01:47:20] wagnerrp: the ceton has one cablecard that powers four tuners
[01:47:27] wagnerrp: it is a multi-stream card
[01:47:34] wagnerrp: it is capable of handling up to six tuners on a single card
[01:47:42] mattwj2002: wagnerrp: I understand that
[01:47:50] wagnerrp: you said "what?"
[01:47:59] wagnerrp: as if you were suddenly confused and surprised
[01:48:07] mattwj2002: but someone told me that you had one cable tuner and 2 clear qam tuners
[01:48:14] wagnerrp: no
[01:48:21] mattwj2002: with the hd homerun prime
[01:48:23] wagnerrp: more than likely, you misunderstood them
[01:48:23] mattwj2002: weird
[01:48:29] mattwj2002: possible
[01:48:30] wagnerrp: i doubt anyone would have said that
[01:48:47] mattwj2002: it was before it even came out
[01:48:56] mattwj2002: months and months ago
[01:49:01] wagnerrp: if you have a cablecard inserted, it behaves as three cablecard tuners
[01:49:03] xris: mattwj2002: I might have time to hook mine up later tonight, but I don't actually have a cable card to test it with. pretty sure I can't just take one out of my cable box.
[01:49:11] wagnerrp: if you have no cablecard inserted, it behaves as three clear qam tuners
[01:49:14] wagnerrp: you cannot mix and match
[01:49:29] mattwj2002: that is fine
[01:49:31] xris: wagnerrp: well, can at least test that it works, then.
[01:49:44] xris: wagnerrp: the hauppaug has 3 clear qam tuners but 2 cablecard?
[01:49:55] xris: wow, sounds like a total firmware hack
[01:50:10] wagnerrp: it has three tuners, because it is a hdhomerun prime, but one is deactivated
[01:50:20] wagnerrp: or... maybe they simply didnt install the third tuner, i really dont know
[01:50:25] slickrick: question ... would it be better for me to change the callsign or xmlid to fix my issue? (eg. when pressing 'e' when playing live tv.)
[01:50:47] wagnerrp: if you are going in there, then set the xmltvid
[01:50:55] slickrick: i've been fixing the xmlid... but wondering if the callsign is a better idea.
[01:50:59] wagnerrp: leave the callsign the same, change it to whatever you want, it doesnt matter
[01:51:20] wagnerrp: you can call the station BOOBIESHD, and mythtv really wont care
[01:51:21] slickrick: if the callsign matched the SD name, i wouldn't need to update the xmlid tho?
[01:51:23] xris: wagnerrp: guess we'll find out. maybe the cable cards are easily removable from my  cable box.
[01:51:30] slickrick: i want that station.
[01:51:36] wagnerrp: slickrick: the xmltvid needs to get set one way or another
[01:51:41] slickrick: okay, i'll continue filling in the xmlid.
[01:51:44] xris: now, I get to go dismantle the battery from one car, so I can jump start the other...
[01:51:49] wagnerrp: either by automatic matching by the callsigns, or by manual setting of the xmltvid
[01:51:57] wagnerrp: dismantle?
[01:52:16] wagnerrp: xris: no, each cablecard is registered to a specific device
[01:52:17] xris: dead-battery car is a prius, parked in a place I can't reach with the jumper cables.
[01:52:33] xris: wagnerrp: ah, then I can't do anything without comcast. guess I call and make an appointment.
[01:52:36] wagnerrp: it will not function in any other device without having the cable company reregister it
[01:52:52] xris: thought only the card had to be registered
[01:52:56] wagnerrp: iamlindoro did his over the phone, but he still had to pick up a spare cablecard
[01:53:06] wagnerrp: it has to be registered, but it must be done so inside the device
[01:53:15] wagnerrp: and from then on, can only be used with that specific device
[01:53:33] xris: yeah. $10 to have a card mailed to me (if they have it set up yet) vs $20 to have someone come out and do it for me, *and* cart away my old hardware. vs 45 minute drive to local comcast office.
[01:54:44] mattwj2002: hmmm
[01:54:47] mattwj2002: :-s
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[01:55:29] mattwj2002: I am thinking maybe hdhomerun prime
[01:55:33] westlock3: Does anyone here use xbmc with a mythtv backend?
[01:55:44] mattwj2002: I would have 5 tuners though
[01:55:46] mattwj2002: O_O
[01:56:09] wagnerrp: i have five tuners
[01:56:23] tgm4883: westlock3, I tried at one point
[01:56:27] wagnerrp: and at times, i have used them all simultaneously
[01:56:29] tgm4883: but I don't anymore
[01:56:37] mattwj2002: I would have to take my quad core and make it my mythtv box
[01:56:42] tgm4883: it's actually still installed
[01:56:50] mattwj2002: 5 tuners!
[01:56:51] mattwj2002: :D
[01:56:51] tgm4883: mattwj2002, why?
[01:57:07] mattwj2002: because I don't think a P4 can handle 5 tuners
[01:57:08] mattwj2002: :P
[01:57:11] mattwj2002: lol
[01:57:16] tgm4883: mattwj2002, surely you don't need much processing power to write the stream to disk?
[01:57:33] tgm4883: Unless cable card tuners differ vastly from digital tuners
[01:57:56] mattwj2002: well my quad core is the way to go
[01:58:14] mattwj2002: I would like to do some re-encoding and what not too
[01:58:21] tgm4883: wagnerrp, mattwj2002 does cablecard streams not come in already compressed?
[01:58:21] mattwj2002: P4 1.7 Ghz is pretty slow
[01:58:51] wagnerrp: cablecard streams are no different than clear qam streams, just encrypted
[01:59:07] wagnerrp: why do you want to re-encode?
[01:59:17] wagnerrp: use on a phone or portable device?
[01:59:20] xris: I reencode stuff I want to archive
[01:59:32] mattwj2002: ipod maybe
[01:59:36] tgm4883: that just sounds like you need a larger hard drive ;)
[01:59:39] xris: 380M 720p vs 2G 1080i
[01:59:40] mattwj2002: I don't know maybe that is stupid
[02:00:13] mattwj2002: you guys seriously think you could dump 5 streams to a 1.7 Ghz Pentium 4?
[02:00:16] wagnerrp: id rather keep the 2G 1080i, and spend the $0.08 in disk space to store it
[02:00:24] mattwj2002: good point
[02:00:26] wagnerrp: mattwj2002: as you say, youre dumping streams
[02:00:27] tgm4883: mattwj2002, why not? it's not using much CPU
[02:00:38] wagnerrp: youre not doing any significant processing on them
[02:00:43] wagnerrp: just storing them straight to disk
[02:00:51] mattwj2002: true
[02:01:06] mattwj2002: what about commerical flagging though?
[02:01:27] wagnerrp: that is a bit of a problem
[02:01:31] wagnerrp: what do you use for playback?
[02:01:35] tgm4883: pawn it off on other systems?
[02:01:50] wagnerrp: since youre not going to be playing HD MPEG2 on that 1.7GHz P4
[02:02:09] mattwj2002: good point
[02:04:14] mattwj2002: I use my laptop to play it
[02:04:27] mattwj2002: typically though the web....I stream it from the box
[02:04:27] wagnerrp: then use your laptop to do the commflagging
[02:04:43] wagnerrp: the bigger issue is going to be the scheduler
[02:04:54] wagnerrp: on a cable lineup, with five tuners, on that processor
[02:05:10] wagnerrp: you might struggle to get those runs done in a timely manner
[02:05:41] mattwj2002: yeah
[02:05:43] mattwj2002: it is fine
[02:05:51] mattwj2002: I'll move to my quad core
[02:05:52] mattwj2002: :)
[02:07:57] mattwj2002: I think I'll go with the HDHomeRun Prime....but I am going to sleep on it
[02:08:00] mattwj2002: have a good night all
[02:08:02] mattwj2002: bye!
[02:08:06] mattwj2002: thanks for your help
[02:08:53] k-man: any known issues compiling mythtv using gcc 4.2? (on OS X?)
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[02:54:33] iamlindoro: westlock3: I have often thought of adding support for an adult grabber, or at least allowing it to be called from a submenu (since it's tough to automatically determine whether an adult grabber should be run versus a movie grabber). If you write a grabber, I'll add support
[02:54:55] ** iamlindoro doesn't judge **
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[02:55:47] k-man: iamlindoro, when you compile mythtv on osx, which compiler do you use?
[02:55:49] iamlindoro: But since I don't have the burning itch (har har) to write one, and nobody else has written one, the support has never been added
[02:56:12] iamlindoro: I use the packaging script, and Xcode's gcc
[02:56:23] iamlindoro: and yes, that includes lion, and it includes current master
[02:56:52] k-man: ah well – I have yet to be able to compile it
[02:57:17] k-man: iamlindoro, do you hand osx-packager.pl any special arguments?
[02:57:23] iamlindoro: no
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[03:00:05] k-man: ok thanks
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[03:29:42] dw805: I am attempting to get mythweb up and running (fedora 15). When I access mythweb.php from a web browser, the error log shows the following error: PHP Fatal error: Failed to open translation file: modules_path/_shared/lang/English.lang in /usr/share/mythweb/classes/Translate.php. I can see that English.lang exists in /usr/share/mythweb/modules/_shared/lang. I believe that modules_path is a php variable and I assume that someho
[03:29:43] dw805: w I have misconfigured the system so that it has the wrong value?
[03:31:00] wagnerrp: thats a symptom of something failing before the mechanisms are set up to throw a proper error
[03:31:28] wagnerrp: have you configured your database credentials in the mythweb apache config file?
[03:32:33] dw805: google just pointed me at the same problem reported by someone else. hang on while I check it out...
[03:33:22] dw805: no, that wasnt my problem. hmmm. yes, db credentials are present in /etc/httpd/conf.d/mythweb.conf
[03:33:50] wagnerrp: is that machine allowed to connect using those credentials?
[03:34:05] wagnerrp: try it on the command line
[03:34:21] wagnerrp: mysql -u<user> -p<password> -h<host> <database name>
[03:34:36] dw805: mythfrontend runs on this machine, connecting to the backend, so I believe the answer is yes.
[03:34:56] wagnerrp: theyre the same credentials that mythfrontend uses to connect?
[03:35:25] dw805: yes
[03:36:46] dw805: I just tried your mysql command-line test and it worked. show tables showed all the tables I would expect to see.
[03:37:31] dw805: oh wait. I ran that on the backend, not this workstation. one second.
[03:37:52] wagnerrp: mythweb is not running on the backend?
[03:38:02] dw805: yes, it is
[03:38:15] wagnerrp: then thats the machine you would want to try to connect from using mysql
[03:38:23] dw805: yes, and that worked
[03:38:30] wagnerrp: since mysql imposes per-host restrictions on connection
[03:38:50] dw805: mysql isnt even installed on the frontend machine I am trying mythweb from.
[03:39:04] wagnerrp: trying to access, or trying to run?
[03:39:33] dw805: mythweb runs on the backend. I am trying to access it from another computer that also works as a front-end (my main development system)
[03:39:50] wagnerrp: if you have a frontend on that machine, you have to have mysql installed
[03:40:16] wagnerrp: since the frontend needs the mysql client libraries
[03:40:24] dw805: I see mysql-libs, mysql-connector-java and qt-mysql
[03:40:40] dw805: I dont see the rest of the mysql client (i.e., no mysql utility)
[03:40:56] wagnerrp: well then thats something fedora artificially breaks up
[03:41:06] dw805: probably
[03:42:42] dw805: I am trying to think what has changed since this last worked.... I moved from fedora 14 to fedora 15. I also changed my source for mythtv: I used to get it from atrpms repository, but now get it from rpmfusion repository
[03:51:35] dw805: so I got past that problem. It is a kludge, but it worked around it: ln -s /usr/share/mythweb/modules /usr/share/mythweb/modules_path
[03:53:44] dw805: but I got the same issue with skin_url. so it is clear that I have a problem with getting paths in general set up right. looks like I need to poke into defines.php?
[03:55:06] wagnerrp: you shouldnt need to change anything outside that httpd/conf.d/mythweb.conf
[03:55:37] dw805: I'm not trying to change. I'm just trying to understand to see if I can spot what isn't right.
[04:03:51] dw805: ok I got it up and working! without kludges, too!
[04:05:41] dw805: fyi, I fixed it by creating a real directory /var/www/html/mythweb. Then I copied the contents of /usr/share/mythweb to it. I saved the mythweb.conf that was put into /etc/httpd/conf.d by the rpm, copied the raw mythweb.conf.apache from /var/www/html/mythweb over to /etc/httpd/conf.d, then edited it, making the necessary changes. I restarted apache and it now works!
[04:06:27] wagnerrp: that should only matter if the mythweb.conf file was pointing to the wrong place
[04:06:47] dw805: When I say real directory, I mean that before there was a symlink there pointing to /usr/share/mythweb.
[04:07:07] wagnerrp: i wonder if the symlink broke things
[04:07:16] dw805: The old mythweb.conf was pointing to /usr/share/mythweb. Now everything points to /var/www/html/mythweb.
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[04:09:45] dw805: that is possible, I suppose. The next time I get an update, I'll have to be careful now, because I'm running off a separate copy of mythweb, not what is in /usr/share/mythweb, but other than that, it looks good to me.... thanks for your help!
[04:22:02] wagnerrp: you can always pull the repo off github, and then just 'git pull' to update
[04:24:40] dw805: What I would really like to do eventually is move back to source and try to give back to the mythtv community by trying to help fix bugs or implement something (I have been a software developer for almost 40 years now). But at this point, I don't have the time to do it justice, so I stay with prebuilt rpms.
[04:24:53] k-man: any ideas where to start with diagnosing linking errors? like this one? http://pastie.org/2535489
[04:25:46] wagnerrp: install linux?
[04:25:55] wagnerrp: :)
[04:26:11] k-man: hmm...
[04:27:04] wagnerrp: youre getting linking errors... on OSX
[04:27:12] wagnerrp: install linux and i bet theyll go away
[04:27:12] k-man: yes
[04:27:17] k-man: yes
[04:27:28] k-man: but I want to compile it on OSX
[04:27:55] dw805: I'm heading to bed. goodnight wagnerrp, and thanks again for the help!
[04:28:03] wagnerrp: not like i was much help
[04:28:10] wagnerrp: the one suggestion i had didnt pan out
[04:28:31] dw805: sometimes just having someone to talk to gets the mind working... :)
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[04:31:06] Gumby: Hi all. I am just redoing my mythbackend and frontend. I normally host mythweb on a separate webserver that has nothing else mythtv related on it. Do I now have to have mythtv compiled on that machine as well? It appears that if it isn't, there are missing Classes
[04:31:30] wagnerrp: you simply need to have the php bindings installed
[04:32:02] Gumby: do I need to compile anything, or simply just copy them over
[04:32:20] wagnerrp: you can copy them over and put them in the proper location
[04:32:29] Gumby: ok cool. thanks
[04:33:07] wagnerrp: i created a config.mak in my source directory with the two lines
[04:33:12] wagnerrp: PREFIX=/usr/local
[04:33:12] wagnerrp: INSTALL=/usr/bin/install
[04:33:24] wagnerrp: and then run 'make install' in mythtv/bindings/php
[04:33:37] wagnerrp: does the same thing
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[04:43:15] Gumby: I just looked for where the files used to be stored and put them there
[04:44:37] Gumby: ..mythweb/classes
[04:45:45] Gumby: it seems to have worked for everything except Upcoming Recordings
[04:46:08] wagnerrp: why not install the php bindings properly?
[04:47:33] k-man: see how in my link post it complains it can't find _MaxComb (note the underscore) could it be some problem with the mangling not working correctly?
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[04:56:01] westlock3: What can one do with a monitor that has a bad edid or one that doesn't report. Has made getting audio up at 100% next to impossible on this frontend upstairs. Typically audio works but only (2) Channels so on a movie say avatar.iso I don't get any voice audio. I'm sure it would work on my other frontend downstairs.
[04:56:36] wagnerrp: are you wanting to use analog audio instead?
[04:58:53] westlock3: Yeah I'm back to that for sure with this set-up. I have some USB speakers and a set of speakers plugged into the the normal speaker out. Either of those will produce audio. I doubt very much from experience I can get the hdmi:card:NVidia hwplug:0,7 etc ever working properly with this set.
[04:59:08] wagnerrp: this is an nvidia graphics card?
[04:59:33] wagnerrp: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Configuring_Analog_Sound_DVI_to_HDMI
[04:59:49] wagnerrp: different reason, but same procedure
[05:00:03] westlock3: Oh yah it's a EN210 and it works great if the TV set also has the capability but alas this cheapo set does not.
[05:00:31] wagnerrp: it will disable audio output through HDMI, allowing the TV to accept audio through its analog inputs
[05:04:48] Gumby: wagnerrp: reason being was that I didn't want to install all the build dependencies on the machine. I've done it the "proper" way now, or at least the way you suggested
[05:05:05] wagnerrp: you dont need all the build dependencies
[05:05:09] wagnerrp: you dont even need to run configure
[05:05:24] wagnerrp: just put those two lines into your 'config.mak' (the file generated by configure)
[05:05:24] Gumby: I was missing something... not sure what
[05:05:29] Gumby: hrm
[05:05:32] wagnerrp: go into mythtv/bindings/php
[05:05:35] wagnerrp: and run 'make install'
[05:05:46] wagnerrp: alter your prefix and install executable as needed
[05:06:42] Gumby: well, too late now :)
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[05:11:14] Gumby: now, to work on my vdpau interlace settings...
[05:17:17] westlock3: Does mythtv do 3D?
[05:17:46] wagnerrp: very few things do 3D
[05:18:19] wagnerrp: usually, youre looking at having to use some sort of spinning display, or lasers to project into a volumetric fog
[05:18:36] wagnerrp: either way, youre looking at some very specialized hardware and software to drive it
[05:19:16] westlock3: So if I bought a new tv set to solve my bad edid problem with this soyo set then there is no use purchasing a 3D one?
[05:19:27] wagnerrp: they make 3D TV sets?
[05:19:59] westlock3: No soyo makes garbage with bad edid chips.
[05:20:13] wagnerrp: i mean... you can buy 3D TV sets?
[05:20:30] westlock3: Uh yes you can.
[05:20:35] wagnerrp: i need to see a link
[05:21:46] westlock3: http://3dtelevisionworld.com/
[05:21:54] westlock3: Your kidding right?
[05:22:06] wagnerrp: oh, you mean stereoscopic TVs
[05:22:10] wagnerrp: those arent 3D
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[05:22:44] westlock3: So what are they selling then if it isn't 3D?
[05:22:53] wagnerrp: stereoscopic
[05:23:24] wagnerrp: this is a 3D display... http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011 . . . t-all-angles
[05:23:59] westlock3: http://www.nextag.com/3D-televisions/stores-html so these are then all stereoscopic. Hmm.
[05:24:17] wagnerrp: yes, those are all stereoscopic, not 3d
[05:24:24] wagnerrp: but marketing people are afraid of big words
[05:24:29] wagnerrp: so those choose incorrect ones instead
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[05:25:22] wagnerrp: in any case, mythtv does not support stereoscopic content
[05:25:41] xris: wagnerrp: 2 tuners clearqam
[05:26:01] wagnerrp: xris: yeah, with no cablecard installed, it just functions as a clearqam tuner
[05:26:33] xris: but only 2, not the full 3. so third tuner is disabled at a really low level, or not there at all
[05:26:45] xris: but at least I know the device works. and shows up as standard SD hardware
[05:27:04] wagnerrp: (and that means theres a linux network driver)
[05:27:19] xris: yeah
[05:27:25] xris: firmware version matches hdhrprime
[05:27:32] wagnerrp: out of curiosity, what type of card are they masquerading as?
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[05:28:09] westlock3: So then for stereoscopic content people are still using their blue ray players directly to their tvs.
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[05:28:22] xris: Product: Hauppauge OpenCable Receiver
[05:28:34] wagnerrp: for stereoscopic content, most people are shunning the fad
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[05:29:06] xris: usbcore: registered new interface driver cdc_ether
[05:29:18] wagnerrp: and the headaches, eye strain, and disruption to normal 3D vision it incurs
[05:30:29] xris: wagnerrp: looks like there's a special direct-connect protocol for ethernet.
[05:31:19] wagnerrp: apparently USB cable modems use the same thing
[05:31:58] xris: guess I can call comcast tomorrow and set up an appointment
[05:32:15] xris: swap out at least my 2nd cable box. that should save me $15/month
[05:32:25] wagnerrp: $15? ouch
[05:32:29] xris: and then depending on how much I get in the clear, I can get rid of the first
[05:32:36] wagnerrp: i recall only paying like $7/mo for mine
[05:32:38] xris: maybe not quite that much
[05:32:47] xris: $7 for SD, another $5–8 for the HD upgrade
[05:33:10] wagnerrp: TW charged the same price for SD and HD boxes, the DVR boxes were higher
[05:33:19] wagnerrp: although this was back in 2006
[05:33:19] xris: dvr is another $5–8 on top of hd
[05:33:27] xris: cablecard is $3
[05:34:07] xris: depending on what channels come through for myth, I can hopefully get rid of the other cable box, too
[05:34:08] wagnerrp: so... a year to pay it off? not bad at all
[05:34:36] xris: since we stopped watching all live tv when the kid got old enough to not-watch-tv.
[05:40:16] xris: ok, confirmed that it works fine for qam
[05:57:15] xris: juggling channels will be fun with this thing. I know my local comcast blacks out certain shows like the simpsons from firewire, I assume cable card will be the same. but qam gets them just fine
[05:59:02] wagnerrp: i doubt comcast does that
[05:59:20] wagnerrp: theyre probably just passing through the broadcast flag from your fox affiliate
[05:59:36] wagnerrp: in which case you could likely contact them about using the broadcast flag when theyre not supposed to
[05:59:53] wagnerrp: theres some diagnostic stuff you can run through the command line application
[06:00:06] wagnerrp: see the -users list for an email iamlindoro put up about a similar email made to PBS
[06:03:58] xris: dunno. things work as they are now. maybe I'll experiment with the new one once I get it up and running
[06:07:05] xris: sucks sometimes not having a real dev system
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[06:18:24] k-man: where should I ask for further advice about this linking issue I'm having?
[06:19:40] wagnerrp: you could try the -users list, since it is technically user support
[06:20:04] k-man: ok
[06:20:07] wagnerrp: you may have more luck in the -dev list, but it really doesnt belong there
[06:20:18] wagnerrp: since its not development related
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[06:20:42] wagnerrp: we really do need to get an OSX buildbot set up
[06:21:03] wagnerrp: we even have a windows buildbot
[06:21:13] wagnerrp: i mean that instantly means windows is a higher priority target
[06:22:07] k-man: yes, it would be good to have an OSX build bot
[06:22:21] k-man: I suspect its some mangling issue
[06:22:31] wagnerrp: were supposed to have one, but the dev providing it has yet been unable to get it working
[06:22:34] k-man: but I'm no expert on compiling and linking so I could be wrong
[06:22:46] k-man: oh – can I ask who that dev is?
[06:23:33] wagnerrp: beirdo manages the build system, stuarta was going to set up the osx bot
[06:23:49] wagnerrp: i dont know if its technical issues, or if he just hasnt found time to get to it
[06:23:56] k-man: thanks
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[06:25:32] mycosys: is there some way to make myth scream blue murder about 0 length recordings?
[06:25:48] mycosys: s/was/simple way
[06:25:55] mycosys: *s/was/way
[06:26:11] wagnerrp: you said 'way'
[06:26:26] wagnerrp: erm... nevermind
[06:26:40] mycosys: lol
[06:26:53] mycosys: i blae my current respiratory infection
[06:27:11] wagnerrp: youre slurring your typing?
[06:27:48] mycosys: pretty muchhhhhhhhsss
[06:28:51] mycosys: anyway – simple way to make myth alert me in a big way about 0 length recordings
[06:29:15] mycosys: this time – finacee knocked out the usb cable
[06:29:35] wagnerrp: that means theres still time
[06:29:39] mycosys: (well i presume it was her since it was under all her bloody knitting bags
[06:33:17] xris: mycosys: at least these days it's smart enough to rerecord when it finds them
[06:33:29] wagnerrp: it is?
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[06:33:51] xris: wagnerrp: it's supposed to be. Beirdo or someone added that into the scheduler 6–9 months ago
[06:33:52] xris: or more
[06:34:10] xris: makes sure existing recordings have >0 size before counting them
[06:35:09] mycosys: spose i could script somethign to run once an hour and ls the recodings, grep that and then if so email me or somehting
[06:35:20] mycosys: ]gah
[06:35:32] mycosys: ofc i wont think of it again til the next disater
[06:35:38] mycosys: cos i am sick
[06:38:33] mycosys: playtv has been gorgeous btw
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[07:04:27] Gumby: is there a new way to dump recording data from the db in order to import it into a new db? the way I have always done it is now giving me an error
[07:04:44] Gumby: I've always followed this http://www.mythpvr.com/mythtv/tips/migrate-recordings.html
[07:06:16] k-man: mycosys, consider hotmelt gluing your USB cable into the box :)
[07:06:45] mycosys: was actuallly where the extension cable met the cable to the hub
[07:06:52] mycosys: is mow lecko tabed
[07:06:57] mycosys: *taped
[07:07:25] k-man: yes, I have also taken to using cable ties to hold various plug packs in the power board
[07:07:35] k-man: as their weight sometimes pulls them out I found
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[07:07:55] mycosys: nice idea
[07:08:14] ** mycosys goes to lecko take the plugpacks too **
[07:13:03] k-man: what is lecko take?
[07:15:27] mycosys: *lecko tape
[07:15:35] mycosys: electrical tape
[07:15:41] k-man: ooh ok
[07:16:02] k-man: i've not heard that before
[07:16:05] k-man: anyway, gtg
[07:16:11] mycosys: tc mate
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[13:19:14] westlock3: Why does my 1920x1080 in "Full" cut off the text on the top and bottom of the screen? Is it because I'm not receiving an actual HD channel?
[13:19:53] laga_: it's because your TV does overscan
[13:21:50] westlock3: Can I change that in my Nvidia control panel?
[13:24:11] Korny2: Depends on your TV
[13:24:17] laga_: you would usually change that on the tv set. the wiki should have an article on "overscan"
[13:24:40] Korny2: There is an overscan correction feature in the nvidia drivers as well(if the TV is not capable of it)
[13:25:08] Korny2: Although I can't use it because I feed all my HDMI signals through a reciever :/
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[13:25:53] westlock3: Yeah I'
[13:26:44] westlock3: m really not liking this tv set. Cheapola Soyo even came with a bad edid. That's rough to work with especially for audio. Thinking about purchasing a new one today :)
[13:43:28] westlock3: The box says 1366x768 and I've got the modeline hardcoded into xorg.conf at 1920x1080
[13:44:03] laga_: well, don't buy cheap crap :/
[13:44:33] Korny2: well the lcd panel may only be a native 1366x768...
[13:45:02] Korny2: If so you're letting your TV do your scaling....
[13:45:56] westlock3: Yeah tell me about it. Owned if for 3 years already cest la vi. So the OSD for the set has some numbers at the bottom of it all the time like 2644-LA1–1C-NSS-T5 What are those numbers
[13:47:30] westlock3: There is no way for the TV to shrink the size of the display. Has one option "All Reset
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[14:05:50] sphery: westlock3: yeah, if you have a 1366x768 native resolution, you probably want to set up X (and, therefore, MythTV) to use 1366x768. If you configure your system to use 1920x1080 on a 1366x768 native display, you're basically configuring it as if the TV's internal scaling hardware/software is better than that used by MythTV.
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[14:07:26] sphery: and, while I've never actually seen any TV with a better-quality scaler than what you get with Xv/VDPAU, even if it is better quality, using the native resolution of the display in MythTV means you get full control over scaling and such--versus whatever options the TV menu happens to give you.
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[14:28:30] wagnerrp: sphery: apparently microsoft has hopped on board with apple in the anti-flash campaign
[14:28:50] sphery: hehe, as long as they don't say Silverlight should replace it :)
[14:29:01] kugel_: westlock3,Korny2: I have an older Samsung DLP TV. When I feed from my HD receiver, the edges of the Gnome desktop are cut off. But the TV has a "PC" mode that does not cut off the edges. This might be related to the "overscan" problem westlock3 is experiencing.
[14:29:31] wagnerrp: actually, theyre not allowing any sort of 3rd party plugin in W8/IE10
[14:29:31] sphery: (though based on recent behaviors, it seems they're pretty much dropping Silverlight--only people they haven't told is all the Silverlight developers :)
[14:31:12] sphery: that's /wonderful/... Considering they build IE into the most basic pieces of the OS (just to thumb their noses at the DoJ), and I know of many different programs that install IE plugins or whatever that then make the entire system unstable, they shouldn't be allowing external plugins
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[14:41:32] westlock3: Okay hunting for the correct modeline for 1366x768
[14:42:29] sphery: westlock3: fwiw, I've found many of mine on avsforum.com
[14:43:16] wagnerrp: westlock3: why are you looking for a modeline? just use the screen setup wizard to scale mythtv to your display
[14:43:37] sphery: he's trying to get his X to use the native resolution of his display
[14:43:54] sphery: the EDID info is for "Windows" users and gives a bad mode
[14:44:02] wagnerrp: and the EDID doesnt send anything close?
[14:45:21] westlock3: yeah I've tried monitor-get-edid-read-edid etc. I can get it to report "Bad Edid" and that is it.
[14:46:09] sphery: and if you just let X autoconfig, it's wrong
[14:46:21] mag0o: westlock3: or try `cvt` if your os has it
[14:46:39] mag0o: though it may just calculate for local displays, i forget what i used it for last time i used it
[14:47:16] sphery: you can start up X with it set to autoconfig (i.e. don't specify any modes and don't use any of the IgnoreEDID* settings), then use xdpyinfo to find out what resolution it's using
[14:47:33] wagnerrp: | grep dimension
[14:48:01] sphery: or | grep -B2 resolution
[14:49:05] sphery: or, I suppose you could do: | grep -A2 'screen #'
[14:49:19] sphery: but I think it's easier to type resolution than 'screen #'
[14:52:46] westlock3: Modeline "1368x768_60.00" 85.25 1368 1440 1576 1784 768 771 781 798 -hsync +vsync
[14:54:09] wagnerrp: weve got like thousands of the things here... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Modeline_Database
[14:55:34] wagnerrp: weve got a couple modelines for sanyo, no soyo though
[14:59:45] westlock3: I typed cvt 1366 768 60 and that is what the sdtout was. Changed the xorg now for the reboot.
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[15:01:58] wagnerrp: reboot?
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[15:07:34] mag0o: hehe
[15:07:45] mag0o: winbuntu?
[15:10:55] wagnerrp: i suppose the reboot was unsuccessful
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[15:23:25] sphery: see, if everyone used text-based IRC clients, like irssi, instead of those new-fangled graphical IRC clients, he would have been able to come back and seek revenge on mag0o
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[15:23:56] ** wagnerrp 's graphical IRC client does not rely on a physical X server **
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[15:24:14] ** sphery really wishes the inquirer would fix their RSS feed to actually contain <link>s **
[15:24:40] sphery: wagnerrp: but seeing it relies on a physical X server--somewhere
[15:25:02] wagnerrp: somewhere, anywhere, dynamically redirectable
[15:25:08] sphery: besides, if I were seeking revenge, I would want to have to move to another computer to do it
[15:25:25] wagnerrp: would or wouldnt?
[15:25:30] sphery: wouldn't
[15:25:46] sphery: hehe, I'm so bad with not in all its forms...
[15:27:06] ** EvilGuru uses Quassel — be quite nice if there was a curses frontend **
[15:27:13] sphery: between my typos of missing n't and changing not to now, I make a lot of completely-changes-the-meaning typos
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[15:31:05] sphery: heh, wow, Quasses is screen + irssi for GUI users
[15:31:24] MMlosh: Hi! I'd like to record all radio streams in a DVB-T multiplex (7pcs), but can't due to the 5-streams-per-card rule... is this thing a HW / kernel limitation, or just mythtv's "sanity limit"
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[15:31:41] wagnerrp: a little of both
[15:31:45] sphery: (having read some of the blog page, though, now I'm wondering if EvilGuru was affected by the CTCP bug a week ago)
[15:32:51] MMlosh: wagnerrp, thanks for quick reply, that does not sound promising.. can you be more detailed or point me somewhere where can i find out, please?
[15:33:18] wagnerrp: for the most part, its a soft sanity limit, set in the spinbox in the mythtv-setup UI
[15:33:43] wagnerrp: the scheduler doesnt scale all that well with virtual tuners, or even multiple tuners
[15:33:51] wagnerrp: so its set to five to keep people from going nuts
[15:34:08] wagnerrp: however there are tuner cards that physically have a cheap/poor/whatever PID filter
[15:34:20] wagnerrp: and pulling more than a couple channels out of them causes them to choke
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[15:35:34] MMlosh: I suspect my tunner being dumb, sending all PIDs without filtering anything.. it was cheap
[15:35:42] sphery: and, in general, digital tuner hardware isn't too expensive, so another approach is to get one more card
[15:35:50] MMlosh: if they are allright with 5 TV streams.. they should be fine with 7 radios
[15:36:01] wagnerrp: i dont think it works that way
[15:36:21] MMlosh: 5 TVs is 10 PIDs.. 7 radios is only 7 PIDs... ok
[15:37:13] EvilGuru: sphery: Quite possibly
[15:37:37] MMlosh: sphery, sure.. but usb ports and antenna connections are quite a limiting factor here.. and a decent antenna splitter is not that cheap
[15:38:50] MMlosh: wagnerrp, sphery.. anyway.. I might use a different SW for the task.. Is there a possible kernel limitation? Other than HW actually filtering PIDs and having only 5 PID filters?
[15:39:22] MMlosh: I thought you might know..
[15:39:59] wagnerrp: dont know
[15:40:27] MMlosh: ok.. thanks anyway
[15:41:11] sphery: yeah, in truth, using something other than MythTV to record radio probably makes sense--unless you actually get listings which have programs with start and end times for MythTV to record
[15:42:23] MMlosh: sphery, I though about trying VDR.. the downside being german/no docs
[15:42:48] laga_: hey, nothing wrong with being German
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[15:43:18] MMlosh: laga_, sure.. unless you need docs and can't speak that particular language
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[15:43:53] sphery: MMlosh: if you steal a capture card from MythTV, though, make sure you tell it that you're doing so (with EXECTV in the menus or using the python bindings or whatever – http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/475239#475239 )
[15:44:05] wagnerrp: laga_: well... unless you like nuclear power
[15:44:42] MMlosh: oh yes.. the electricity prices are expected to rise.. because germany will buy our nuclear energy instead
[15:44:56] laga_: great, how did i end up in this discussion again ;)
[15:45:08] MMlosh: again? ok.. I am stopping now
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[15:49:29] MMlosh: sphery, that looks interesing, even though I am using a spare tuner on arm-based device.. I sometimes need to borrow the tuner from my running mythtv.. simply to get the free usb port.. I am certainly reading the thread
[15:49:58] MMlosh: (I don't use mythtv on arm.. it has no spinning drive for the database)
[15:52:01] wagnerrp: actually, databases love SSDs
[15:52:10] wagnerrp: but then again, database love power, which ARMs dont have
[15:52:26] MMlosh: wagnerrp, SSDs yes.. SD cards no
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[16:13:35] sphery: Wow, so Intel Serial Bus is coming to PCs. So I guess that means we'll have to drop the number of USB3 ports to allow adding one or more Thunderbolt ports. Then sales people can tell me how I should get the Thunderbolt wireless mouse/receiver instead of the USB3 wireless mouse/receiver, because Thunderbolt is 10Gbps and USB3 is only 5Gbps, so obviously my Thunderbolt mouse would be more future proof
[16:15:07] Beirdo: heheh
[16:15:11] skd5aner: lol – THIS made google news's main page as a wikipedia entry related to Scarlett Johansson's nude pic debacle – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nude_photo_scandals
[16:15:13] sphery: but, hey, at least Intel got to design it without that pesky USB-IF getting in the way
[16:15:36] skd5aner: way to go Google, you picked a super relavent article there... new article, with one edit, today
[16:17:43] skd5aner: oh, and... this is interesting – http://www.conceivablytech.com/9378/products/ . . . -silverlight
[16:21:03] skd5aner: hey – where is nuvexport distributed as of 0.24?
[16:22:21] sphery: yeah, so that's all fine and dandy, but I really have to wonder how they'll appease the content owners who want the Flash-based DRM
[16:22:46] sphery: and nuvexport is in its own repo: https://github.com/MythTV/nuvexport
[16:22:56] MMlosh: sphery, one-line question for the tuner locking – is that locking physical tuners, or virtual? (do I need 5 calls, or 1)?
[16:23:10] skd5aner: sphery: thanks just found it
[16:23:18] sphery: MMlosh: ummm... good question
[16:23:36] wagnerrp: yeah, i would hope locking the virt locks the whole physical
[16:23:41] wagnerrp: but i really dont know
[16:24:02] sphery: in reality, multirec was implemented wrong, and there should be one card with 5 virtual inputs, but for some reason it was made with 5 virtual cards and 5 virtual inputs
[16:24:33] sphery: since tuner locking happened before multirec, and since multirec makes virtual cards, I'd think that it may actually require 5 locks... not sure
[16:24:42] wagnerrp: mythtv automatically assumes each input cannot be used independently
[16:25:02] sphery: yeah, that might be enough to make it see that the other virtual cards aren't usable
[16:25:26] sphery: my recommendation would be to see what trial and error say--they tend to know a lot more details than me
[16:25:49] skd5aner: is mythffmpeg always installed when mythtv is installed?
[16:26:09] skd5aner: and, does nuvexport look for mythffmpeg?
[16:26:27] MMlosh: ok.. I'll try.. if the tuner's "lock LED" comes off, it'll be the right way
[16:26:28] wagnerrp: yes, dont know
[16:26:32] wagnerrp: oh look, ive got a ticket
[16:27:45] sphery: MMlosh: well, it will mean that mythtv's starting a new recording using that card won't affect the radio recordings--but mythtv could very well try to start a recording, have it fail, and cause messed up recording schedules where you end up with unimportant shows succeeding and important ones failing
[16:28:05] sphery: so you need to make sure that mythtv never tries to use that tuner
[16:28:26] MMlosh: sphery, the system has only one tuner.. which glows any time mythtv is running
[16:28:44] sphery: easiest way is to remove all capture cards except for one multirec one, then lock one virtual tuner on that multirec set, then try to start Live TV and/or recording
[16:29:01] MMlosh: I sometimes need that usb port for other purposes.. it's my fault if I forget to replug it.. or turn on the computer at all
[16:29:11] sphery: (and by that I mean remove from mythtv--not from the computer)
[16:29:19] MMlosh: heh.. sure .. I know
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[16:32:22] sphery: wagnerrp: hehe, I was just thinking about the effect that the "proper" implementation of multirec would have on MythTV--where proper means there exists only one capture card and multiple virtual card inputs... It turns out it would make Live TV behave like the majority of users want.
[16:32:56] sphery: i.e. when you start Live TV and tuner 1 is locked to a mux with 4 other virtual inputs free, Live TV would pick tuner 2, which is not in use
[16:33:10] ** sphery thinks we should fix the design **
[16:33:37] sphery: (though it's way down on my list of things to do because, for one thing, testing it and knowing I did it right would be very hard for me)
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[16:34:25] sphery: it would also make MMlosh's question a moot point (since there would be only one capture card to lock)... And skd5aner would be happy because his Live TV would work the "intuitive" way.
[16:34:38] sphery: :)
[16:34:59] MMlosh: sphery, you mean.. livetv would use the tuner that is already locked to that freq... and use different tuner if not? that would be really great
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[16:35:50] sphery: no, I mean if physical card 1 is in use and you start Live TV, Live TV would always use physical card 2--meaning you could watch anything on any mux
[16:35:53] MMlosh: sphery, will that involve ability to switch to a channel from a different mux? simply pressing the numbered key on the remote?
[16:36:07] sphery: though it does mean if a 3rd request comes in and you only have 2 physical cards, they wouldn't get Live TV
[16:36:18] sphery: (not even on the same muxes that are available)
[16:36:37] MMlosh: oh.. that behavior would be better.. but I sure would end up with all tunners on same freq by an accident
[16:36:52] sphery: i.e. Live TV makes use decisions by card... recordings make use decision by input
[16:37:24] MMlosh: Which means I'll probably put a layer between mythtv and tuners anyway... If I ever decide to touch my setup
[16:39:01] sphery: yeah, even as it is, when you're watching Live TV, you likely end up with multiple tuners on the same mux
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[16:40:24] sphery: because if you start Live TV, switch tuners so you can switch off the mux that's in use, then the recording that locked the tuner on the first mux ends and a new recording starts on the mux you're currently watching in Live TV, it will use the other tuner--the one you switched off of so you could gain control of the physical tuner so you could switch to a different mux
[16:40:43] MMlosh: sphery, one more idea – would having one tuner per mux help?
[16:40:58] sphery: one physical tuner per mux?
[16:41:01] MMlosh: yes
[16:41:10] MMlosh: it's not hard for dvb-t
[16:41:10] sphery: if so, then yes, that will help for recordings
[16:41:39] sphery: but you really need one physical tuner per mux + one physical tuner per Live TV session if you want Live TV users to be able to change to any channel on any mux
[16:41:40] MMlosh: I would need to create separate "source" for each mux.. and such
[16:41:58] MMlosh: oh... right.. livetv sessions can't switch inputs
[16:42:03] MMlosh: so livetv would... suck
[16:42:30] MMlosh: I ment – configuring only channels from one mux per the source
[16:43:01] sphery: or, as you said, you could put a layer in there where MythTV uses some "script" that tunes the appropriate channel on the appropriate mux using one of your 4 "always-locked-to-one-mux" cards
[16:43:12] MMlosh: so.. using something stupid like dvblast under mythtv and stream would still provide better resuts
[16:43:26] sphery: where this "script" may actually need to be a V4L virtual tuner--or, at minimum, an IPTV type approach
[16:43:57] MMlosh: that's what dvblast does.. recieves a mux, splits it and broadcasts on the net
[16:44:35] MMlosh: maybe I could try it.. if it can broadcast all the ( radio + tv ) streams, it + wget would be a way to go
[16:44:39] sphery: yeah, that would be a good way of doing it if you have one card per mux and want a simple Live Tv interface
[16:44:41] wagnerrp: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1893/1
[16:45:26] sphery: if you do set it up, please document it on the wiki--a /lot/ of users would like that, and I'd much rather recommend that approach than the "break your MythTV setup by prioritizing Live TV over recordings" approach that we have been "recommending"
[16:45:58] sphery: MMlosh: no need for wget for mythtv, though--we have an IPTV interface that works with, at least, vlc's streaming server
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[16:47:00] MMlosh: sphery, I mean wget + dvblast for the radio recording thing.. I might never do
[16:47:40] MMlosh: it would be a good way to test if the 5-per-hardware-tuner limit is hardware or sanity type
[16:47:53] sphery: yeah, that's true
[16:48:13] sphery: trying to find a wiki article that would be the perfect starter for setting up such a config
[16:48:17] skd5aner: Beirdo: does nuvexport automatically look for mythffmpeg?
[16:48:17] MMlosh: also: dvblast does not take priorities.. it can duplicate any streams.. serve everyone
[16:48:22] wagnerrp: sphery: you would find that link amusing... your proximity to such things and all
[16:48:38] sphery: reading
[16:50:13] sphery: wagnerrp: wow, I could help them out--gotta make a call
[16:50:58] MMlosh: sphery, All that would be needed is mythtv's ability to parse EPG from dvblast's streams.. (probably mpeg-ts with an epg pid?).. or extra tunner, only for epg collection
[16:53:54] sphery: or just use the xmltv eit grabber
[16:53:57] sphery: whatever it is
[16:54:22] sphery: then use mythfilldatabase --file to import the data from the resultant xmltv file(s)
[16:57:51] skd5aner: Beirdo: ah, it looks like master is set to look for ffmpeg or mythffmpeg, but it has not be backported to 0.24-fixes... is that correct
[16:59:10] sphery: MMlosh: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Multiple_Recordings_with_VLC is the page that's a good starter for how to (it's using vlc, but I guess dvblast is an updated/more-integrated approach to do the same)
[16:59:23] MMlosh: sphery, yes.. pulling epg from web would help.. if there was a usable source
[16:59:47] sphery: MMlosh: the xmltv eit grabber pulls it from the eit data in the stream and writes it to an xmltv file
[17:00:29] sphery: so you'd run that against your locked-to-a-mux capture card to create an xmltv file with listings for that mux, then do the same for the other 3 or however many muxes, then just run mythfilldatabase --file to import those files
[17:00:56] MMlosh: sphery, will that work with dvblast's ip stream...
[17:01:09] MMlosh: oh.. you think dvblast will let the grabber touch the tuner?
[17:01:13] sphery: used to be called tv_grab_eit, but there have been many other implementations since, and I don't remember the current name
[17:01:28] sphery: yeah, you'd have to run it on the physical tuner
[17:01:59] sphery: not sure if the programs would like that much--but, in theory, if each knows of only one mux and if the drivers allow multiple opens, it should work
[17:02:36] sphery: i.e. you won't have to worry about one tuning to a different frequency if you have a separate channels.conf for each mux/tuner
[17:02:38] MMlosh: the program includes eit in the iptv streams.. it's only the matter of getting it from there..
[17:03:02] sphery: and if that's the case, you could just make a nice tv_grab_dvblast program :)
[17:03:19] wagnerrp: sphery: if you 'QString host;', and then push host into a database query without defining it, what should it be?
[17:03:21] MMlosh: yeah.. that would probably work...
[17:03:23] wagnerrp: '' or NULL?
[17:03:40] sphery: (though if you wanted, you could integrate it into mythtv's iptv code--assuming it's a reasonably "standardized" format for the data)
[17:03:43] sphery: wagnerrp: NULL
[17:04:09] MMlosh: unless there is ready-made tv-grab-vdr that would pull EPG from vdr's text-cache (vdr is simpler media center)
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[17:04:30] MMlosh: I would want to change how EIT is processed anyway.. they cram up everything in the title here...
[17:04:32] sphery: which is why since danielk's changes to the database code, we're needing to change all sorts of QString() to QString("") or do as he does and just check it in the INSERT statement
[17:04:48] sphery: (with a ternary operator checking for null and using '' or the value)
[17:05:06] MMlosh: "Match duplicates by title" would quite help in those conditions.. I end up with dupes.. no matter how it's set
[17:05:18] sphery: tv_grab_dvb is one of the implementations that got eit
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[17:05:45] sphery: it's not maintained, anymore, though, so doesn't seem to be the current one
[17:05:49] sphery: http://bryars.eu/projects/tv_grab_dvb/
[17:06:26] wagnerrp: sphery: yeah, looking at #10040, which is one of those cases
[17:07:18] sphery: wagnerrp: is that the jobqueue one?
[17:07:27] sphery: if so, I don't see how NULL is getting into a not null column
[17:07:29] wagnerrp: yeah
[17:07:33] MMlosh: heh.. he is an IPv6 SAGE like me...
[17:07:34] sphery: now if he's saying the insert fails...
[17:07:52] wagnerrp: SAGE?
[17:08:32] wagnerrp: so isNull?
[17:08:39] MMlosh: that's the highest rank in the certification
[17:08:42] sphery: wagnerrp: http://pastebin.com/9YdKUzqK ... note the "NO" for "Null" for hostname
[17:08:56] wagnerrp: yeah, i didnt think that table supported NULLs either
[17:09:11] wagnerrp: but if its failing the insert instead, the code is still broken
[17:09:15] sphery: I thought it was /supposed/ to be written as '' so that any host could pick it up
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[17:09:30] sphery: yeah, but would be nice to have a proper description there or something
[17:09:37] sphery: maybe at least a log showing the failure
[17:09:52] wagnerrp: right, it should be an empty string
[17:09:54] sphery: anyway, I didn't get a chance to send a reply asking if it's an insert failure
[17:10:04] wagnerrp: specifically, the jobqueue is searching for an empty string
[17:10:35] sphery: (though danielk has a "fall back to '' for any null columns if the insert fails hack in our code, now, so it shouldn't fail--it should just insert with '' and write a log message saying that the code needs fixing)
[17:10:57] wagnerrp: im all for the quick fix now
[17:11:08] wagnerrp: rather than digging into something im going to be replacing in a couple months anyway
[17:11:37] sphery: yeah, just changing hostname to be initialized as QString("") needs done now
[17:12:23] sphery: if it's using QString()... but by my reading there is no possible way the behavior he describes could happen with a valid DB schema
[17:12:32] MMlosh: which reminds me, that I was unable to persuade 0.24 from the repo to transcode to mpeg4.. I ended up with nuppelvideo
[17:13:04] sphery: MMlosh: it's MPEG-4 video codec in the NuppelVideo container
[17:13:07] wagnerrp: MMlosh: thats mpeg4
[17:13:25] wagnerrp: anything but lossless mpeg2->mpeg2 will result in a nuppelvideo file
[17:13:40] sphery: just like you can put mpeg-4 in avi or in any of a number of other containers
[17:13:42] MMlosh: ah.. thanks for clarification
[17:13:44] wagnerrp: you really dont want to use mythtranscode for anything but lossless
[17:13:50] sphery: agreed
[17:13:53] sphery: transcode is a waste of electricity
[17:14:03] MMlosh: thanks for letting me know...
[17:14:16] MMlosh: too bad ffmpeg does not get timing right from the mpeg-ts streams
[17:14:35] sphery: and until Germany replaces the Black Forest with the Silicon-Panel Forest, our world can't afford to waste electricity.
[17:14:47] MMlosh: and also creates gilberish.. even oh -sameq..
[17:15:20] sphery: MMlosh: if you are transcoding and want a "mp4" file for playback on an iThingy or whatever, you should look at nuvexport
[17:15:39] mycosys: mplayer is good for transcoding if u must
[17:15:44] sphery: which will actually transcode from NUV or MPEG
[17:17:27] wagnerrp: our world cant afford for germany to replace the black forest with the sand forest
[17:17:38] wagnerrp: it takes too much energy to melt and purify that stuff
[17:18:02] MMlosh: sphery, yes.. I am currently using mencoder... even though deprecated, it creates nice x264 files
[17:18:03] wagnerrp: with subsidization, bulk silicon panels are a solar battery
[17:19:12] wagnerrp: s/with/without/
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[17:40:50] Steeltip: hi @ all
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[17:48:49] sphery: hello
[17:49:17] sphery: wagnerrp: solar battery? how?
[17:49:24] sphery: (is this a good thing?)
[17:50:28] wagnerrp: sphery: meaning... with all the energy that goes into refining and building it, you dont get all that much more energy out of it
[17:50:42] wagnerrp: so as an energy producer, its not that good
[17:50:46] sphery: ahhh, yeah
[17:51:09] wagnerrp: but, it does let you run detached from the power grid for years or decades, with decent power generation
[17:51:22] wagnerrp: making it more like a battery technology than power generation
[17:51:48] sphery: agreed... and the only change subsidization makes is making it more affordable, right?
[17:51:55] wagnerrp: the only reason it is an all economical is due to heavy subsidies and favorable power exchange rates
[17:52:04] sphery: ok, cool
[17:52:08] wagnerrp: s/an/at/
[17:52:19] sphery: wasn't sure what you meant, but now I understand--and completely agree
[17:52:51] sphery: I've heard even wind turbines have a huge production energy cost compared to lifetime power generation
[17:53:13] wagnerrp: dont know anything about their costs
[18:00:22] Steeltip: Is there anyone , who would be so kind helping me getting my new dvb-s card running under mythtv ? I have the following problem, mythtv seems to find channels since i compiled and installed the latest v4l driver, but when i start livetv in frontend it quits immitiately, thats the last output : http://pastebin.com/1YsspSDw
[18:00:56] sphery: what's the backend log say?
[18:02:47] Steeltip: Oh no
[18:03:05] wagnerrp: the log says "Oh no"? ive got to see this
[18:03:23] Steeltip: permissions denied for video storage, ... i am a shame now, sorry for disturbing
[18:03:28] Steeltip: :)
[18:04:07] sphery: hehe, no problems--just glad it was an easy fix
[18:08:26] Steeltip: cani recive EPG via DVB-s ?
[18:09:32] sphery: we support EIT, if your provider sends it, you can use it
[18:09:47] xris: yay, comcast appt on tuesday for the cablecard
[18:10:14] sphery: I think most DVB countries tend to provide EIT data
[18:10:41] sphery: xris: so did the tuner arrive yesterday or something?
[18:10:44] xris: yeah
[18:10:46] sphery: nice
[18:10:48] xris: works for qam
[18:11:06] xris: silicondust software sees it as an hdhr prime
[18:11:28] xris: looking forward to eventual removal of both bulky cable boxes
[18:11:29] sphery: yeah, will be nice to finally get the cablecard support, though
[18:12:06] sphery: It sounds like the cable company didn't make it as easy as for some
[18:12:15] Steeltip: my epg , doesnt seem to fill up with data !?! do i have to do something manually ?
[18:14:25] wagnerrp: sphery: cehck out #10040
[18:14:35] wagnerrp: wonder how he got his that way
[18:15:56] xris: sphery: oh?
[18:16:15] xris: I just told them I have windows media center. :)
[18:16:58] xris: which technically I do. I assume it's in windows 7 somewhere. just means I'd have to fire up vmware.
[18:17:32] wagnerrp: depends on your version of 7
[18:17:53] wagnerrp: home premium and ultimate come with it, the lower end and business grades do not
[18:18:05] sphery: wagnerrp: yeah, that's definitely broken... https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/ . . . ck.cpp#L6319 is valid as of schema 1280, and 1281 didn't change hostname :)
[18:18:49] xris: wagnerrp: ah, mine's probably pro
[18:19:07] sphery: Steeltip: if you enable EIT (on the video source and the channel) and set at least one capture card to be used for EIT collection, it should just work--though it may take a long time to initially populate the listings
[18:19:44] xris: oh well. I should be able to test easily enough with the hdhomerun software and vlc.
[18:20:01] sphery: Steeltip: also note that we have a checkbox allowing you to select "Active EIT scan"--meaning it makes use of your tuners when they're not otherwise in use to scan various muxes for EIT data. If you don't enable that, we only collect EIT data on the channels you're currently watching/recording
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[18:22:08] sphery: wagnerrp: if you'd like to recommend he fix it, you can have him run: ALTER TABLE jobqueue MODIFY hostname varchar(64) OT NULL default '';
[18:22:18] sphery: er, NOT
[18:22:33] sphery: ALTER TABLE jobqueue MODIFY hostname varchar(64) NOT NULL default '';
[18:23:02] sphery: though, if it were me and if I couldn't explain how that column got to be nullable, I wouldn't trust any part of the schema and would actually do a partial restore
[18:23:20] sphery: (that way mythtv creates a new, valid schema, then I just restore data into it)
[18:28:18] Steeltip: playCtx, Error: Attempting to setup a player, but it already exists.
[18:28:23] Steeltip: what does that mean ?
[18:29:10] sphery: I'd recommend you try a reboot--that may just be because of the config errors you had before (and a reboot will fully reset everything--hardware and software)
[18:29:35] sphery: if that doesn't help, you may have a different configuration error somewhere in your input connections and/or disecq config
[18:30:11] sphery: you can check to make sure you configured right by looking at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S
[18:30:14] Steeltip: hm?, ok , see you and thank you very much for givving me hints
[18:30:19] sphery: good luck
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[18:36:00] sphery: Why do analysts claim that HP's $100 Touchpad firesale proves that tablets aren't a failed concept and that the Touchpad could have a future... The demand was for a $100 touchscreen toy with reasonable hardware, not for a Touchpad. And, since HP took something like a $200 loss on each one at that price, it's not like they could save the Touchpad line by continuing to sell them for $99--after all, their CEO isn't Milo Minderbinder. And ...
[18:36:06] sphery: ... even once prices are such that you can sell a nice touchscreen display in a computer for $99, it's not like there's going to be a lot of profit margin in that.
[18:37:45] sphery: (where the $200/touchpad loss is only considering hardware costs)
[18:38:14] justinh: gah. backend deadlocks. same time today as yesterday :-\
[18:38:24] justinh: wonder if the frontend can be causing em
[18:38:37] justinh: no deadlocks when we were on holiday all week last week
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[18:41:19] sphery: same time, like to the minute (maybe a cron thing?)
[18:41:29] sphery: or same time, like "during viewing hours"
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[18:44:04] justinh: sphery: the latter
[18:56:47] wagnerrp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S75Rfva9O8
[18:56:51] stuartm: sphery: right, it's the notebook fiasco all over again, people went crazy for them when you had the first Asus and Acer models at between £100–200, so every manufacturer started releasing their own version but started pricing them > £200 and didn't find the demand, instead of understanding that their pricing was the problem the industry just announced that netbooks were fad that had come and gone
[18:58:36] sphery: yeah... I assume you mean, specifically, the netbooks?
[18:58:55] ** skd5aner received his HP touchpad yesterday (finally) **
[18:59:00] sphery: ah, yeah, 2nd time you said netbook
[18:59:12] sphery: skd5aner: I'm impressed you were able to get that order in
[18:59:16] stuartm: no matter what Apple thinks, a tablet is not a replacement for a computer, it's a portable web/photo/video browsing tool and as such it needs to priced much cheaper than a far more capable laptop to sell in volume
[18:59:25] skd5aner: sphery: took about an hour to do on that Saturday...
[18:59:30] stuartm: sphery: typo :)
[18:59:36] skd5aner: sphery: on the SMB website]
[18:59:46] sphery: yeah... most of what I've heard is that tablets seem to be used primarily as a diversion
[18:59:47] skd5aner: sphery: constantly reloading, etc
[18:59:58] sphery: i.e. it's something to play with when you're sitting around waiting
[19:00:07] sphery: or something to play with during commercials while you're watching tv
[19:00:23] sphery: it's not something you actually use to "Create"--in spite of the Apple ads that claim otherwise
[19:00:23] stuartm: Apple can charge £400+ because people buy into the branding, like £100 for Levi jeans when you can buy equally well made ones for less than half that price
[19:00:27] Korny2: Commercials?
[19:00:59] sphery: Korny2: it's something that people who use AppleTV have to put up with since they don't have a cool DVR like MythTV :)
[19:01:13] skd5aner: I saw that the "Windows 8" based tablet OS will also not run traditional software and will require an app store
[19:01:33] skd5aner: well, I should say, won't run software that would run on a standard Windows OS platform
[19:01:42] stuartm: as someone eloquently put it, if Apple put their logo on dog shit and called it an iTurd they'd sell thousands of the things at whatever price they asked
[19:01:52] sphery: skd5aner: yeah, though I've heard that the Win8 tablet/phone UI puts Apple's to shame--and this was from a site that's about as anti-all-things-Microsoft as they get
[19:01:56] Korny2: Apple fanboys are silly
[19:02:24] skd5aner: stuartm: which is usually enough in-and-of-itself to turn me off from the majority of apple products
[19:02:26] sphery: skd5aner: they actually said it's proof that Apple is resting on its laurels and hasn't made any significant change to iOS (other than the name ;) since it was first released
[19:02:48] sphery: pretty much all they've done is add features that /should/ have been in the first version (things like copy/paste and multitasking and ...)
[19:02:58] Korny2: Things android did first?
[19:03:14] skd5aner: sphery: why change something the majority of the consumers aren't clamoring for? I mean... people will take apple stuff at any maturity level and think it's perfect
[19:03:25] stuartm: skd5aner: the hardware isn't fast enough, you probably won't see really fast hardware in that form factor for years, if they permitted any windows app to run then all you'd ever hear about the Windows tablets is "It doesn't run XYZ very well" which would be enough to kill sales dead
[19:03:52] justinh: ARGHHH gnu.org is still playing "muh, we got haxx0r3d"
[19:03:53] skd5aner: yea, I think it'll be an ARM platform
[19:04:08] justinh: how long have they had to change all their frickin keys?!
[19:04:15] sphery: skd5aner: true--business wise, apple has done all the right things... but that doesn't mean it's good for the consumer. It will be nice, if Win8's interface is really that much improved, to finally have some competition so that the industry progresses
[19:04:45] skd5aner: I'm still fimly in the android camp – although I have some reservations and mild complaints
[19:04:52] skd5aner: er, firmly
[19:05:18] Korny2: I'm still waiting for a drastic improvement over my current phone :/ Just a regular evo 4g :/
[19:05:32] sphery: and, yes, I'm completely discounting Android, "the iOS for people who are too sensible to pay Apple prices," since it's taking the typical approach a lot of GNU/Linux-based projects take--the approach where they're trying to create something "as good as" (never aiming to do better nor redefine)
[19:05:43] stuartm: justinh: the idiots are paying the price for giving everyone who asked an account on the servers and failing to enforce strict rules preventing the re-use of keys etc
[19:06:04] skd5aner: sphery: yea, that's true to an extent I suppose
[19:06:11] justinh: stuartm: how long have their essentials been offline? it's a bugger to find any mirrors
[19:06:35] justinh: I heard about it last week or so.. I'd have expected maybe a couple of days not this
[19:06:42] stuartm: justinh: but I hestitate to say that knowing that we're not exactly enforcing the strictest of policies on the mythtv server
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[19:07:30] sphery: skd5aner: besides, Android is a murky mess of licensing and other issues since Google forked the Linux kernel, forked Java (without any licenses, etc.), and didn't use any POSIX'ly-correct system design, but built their own from the file system up
[19:07:57] skd5aner: sphery: why do you think they just bought 18000+ patents? :)
[19:08:12] stuartm: justinh: a few days I guess, and yes, it's a surprise it's taking them so long to sort out – again probably a question of insufficient backups and they can't restore whatever they've got because they don't know if it was tainted
[19:08:12] skd5aner: defense baby!
[19:08:43] sphery: if they were just doing to do a ground-up design, why did they have to steal Java to do so instead of creating their own language--or using one or more of the /many/ languages Google has created
[19:09:25] stuartm: Google Android has some pretty serious issues, namely Google, I'm looking forward to some of the forthcoming non-Googly forks
[19:10:02] justinh: I look fwd to having a non-stock phone rom that doesn't bloody crash
[19:10:06] sphery: yeah, Googorola is likely to be the end of the "we all trust Google to do their closed development and then gift the OS to the world" approach
[19:10:59] sphery: imho, Android is more like public domain software with a Google copyright than Free software
[19:11:13] sphery: if they want to call it Free, they should have an open development process
[19:11:43] justinh: I'd rather have a phone OS which is properly tested. I care not whether it's open
[19:12:19] justinh: ooo, crashes when you use the GPS? Ha!
[19:12:23] sphery: justinh: +1... I have an Openmoko Freerunner and a Blackberry Pearl. I've never used the Freerunner as a phone, and my Blackberry phone works great.
[19:13:11] sphery: of course, since the whole world thinks it's ios vs android, I'm starting to think I may be getting an android in the future--after RIM folds--as the lesser of 2 evils
[19:13:24] justinh: that said, my phone hasn't rebooted for a few days. it didn't seem to like Movistar much
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[19:13:59] sphery: (and with the hope that I can eventually replace the OS with a nice debian-based distro with phone apps--which are, admittedly, a bit, er, not ready for primetime, yet)
[19:14:57] Korny2: Ugggg Unity sucks :/
[19:15:08] justinh: yup
[19:15:09] Korny2: Sorry random thought
[19:15:17] ** sphery wonders if Korny2 is really Linus **
[19:15:38] stuartm: OT for a minute, but does anyone have anything bad to say about http://www.ebuyer.com/255836-lg-ips226v-pn-21 . . . d-ips226v-pn
[19:15:39] sphery: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linus-dit . . . nome-so-what
[19:16:06] stuartm: since I'm thinking that it's not a bad price for a 22" LED IPS monitor
[19:16:19] Korny2: Its only 22"?
[19:16:46] stuartm: it's a monitor, not a TV
[19:17:50] stuartm: I don't want to have to sit 5' away just to be able to take in the whole picture ;)
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[19:18:20] stuartm: and it's an improvement on my current 19" monitors (although I only plan to replace one for now)
[19:18:24] Korny2: meh I sie 2 feet from my 24 :/
[19:18:26] justinh: ahh ftp.gnu.org is up..
[19:18:35] Korny2: sie = sit*
[19:18:56] Korny2: Is that a 16x9 or 16x10
[19:19:37] stuartm: 16x9
[19:19:50] stuartm: it's 1920x1080
[19:20:11] Korny2: I actually like the 16x10s for desktop stuff, it seems like more use able space 1920x1200 :/
[19:20:44] sphery: 16:10s are getting hard to find
[19:20:53] Korny2: I know, and it makes me sad
[19:20:55] sphery: I prefer them, too, for all but TV
[19:21:26] stuartm: 16x9 is better for my usage, since I'll be developing/testing mythfrontend and themes on it
[19:22:17] Korny2: You know the ONLY feature I truely miss from my previous DVR software is having recorded TV and archived videos on the same screen under * recordings
[19:22:19] sphery: Korny2: btw, stuartm had mentioned this (very appropriate) comment about Ubuntu + Unity: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/post/1164387
[19:22:39] stuartm: though I'm concerned about getting a monitor which might actually produce accurate colours since I'll then see how bad Terra actually looks ...
[19:22:50] Korny2: lol
[19:23:06] Korny2: I'm not looking foward to 12.04 :/
[19:23:45] justinh: hrm. not sure I'm up to doing LFS
[19:24:05] justinh: I just want a totally small footprint (for downloads) LAMP server setup
[19:24:45] sphery: stuartm: btw, did you see my question in #-theming? http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/3/2011-09-10 ... I wanted to make sure I'm taking the right approach before fixing the OSD menu. My understanding is that I can't "fix" it the way http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/490922#490922 guys want for the same reasons that arrow-key accel won't work elsewhere in mythtv
[19:25:06] sphery: (and feel free to answer in #mythtv-theming, if you prefer--I'm in both channels)
[19:26:23] Korny2: Is there a way to not consider mythcomflag as a job, I have 6 core backend, but I don't want to a limit of 3 jobs incase I have 3 user transcode jobs going all at once :/
[19:26:37] sphery: I'm thinking converting the OSD to use mythscreenstack, then having users use select/back to go into/close sub menus is the right solution since any other would bring arrow key accel back to all mythdialogbox (unless I created an OSD-only exception, but then it would constrain OSD-related mythdialogbox design)
[19:27:30] sphery: Korny2: no, it always counts...
[19:27:46] sphery: if the transcodes are that important, you can run them unqueued?
[19:28:18] stuartm: sphery: honest answer time, yes I saw it, I tend to agree that especially with the OSD it's easier but that conflicts with my earlier position on the subject, I was hesitating to answer because I hoped someone else would make the call ;)
[19:28:42] sphery: hehe
[19:28:57] Korny2: I could yes, I just try to automate as much as possible, if there was a way to set specific jobs to only run during specific times that would work too
[19:28:58] sphery: well, I will answer on list with the generic reasons against accel
[19:29:28] stuartm: it _could_ be done based purely on the layout chosen for the list, vertical – left/right accel, horizontal – up/down, grid/other – no accel
[19:29:31] sphery: I would also consider implementing a "proper" menu container for the OSD if you don't mind a new mythui widget type
[19:29:51] sphery: and we could do that
[19:30:30] sphery: My main complaint with arrow key accels was a) having a setting (as you said, we should either do it or not) and b) the fact that it was inconsistent across different parts of mythtv
[19:31:27] sphery: where even in the same mythdialogbox, I could use it for only some things, depending on whether they were standard buttons or checkboxes...
[19:31:28] justinh: if they've been killed off elsewhere, kill em some more
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[19:32:17] stuartm: sphery: I don't especially like the idea of allowing the list layout to be interrogated since that invites people to start writing special behaviour crap like arrow accel in new stuff but failing to make the behaviour consistent, however if it's a choice between that and a fight over arrow acceleration in the OSD I'd rather pick more serious issues to my battle over
[19:32:32] sphery: hehe
[19:33:05] sphery: well, I think actually making back work the way people expect--i.e. just getting rid of the sub menu--would be a big help toward getting people to accept it
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[19:34:04] justinh: aww.. if you're gonna be able to go back a level there, how about in any of the main UI popups too?
[19:34:04] wagnerrp: 2' is awfully close for a monitor
[19:34:11] sphery: and that could be done through changes we probably need to make, anyway--just making it use a mythscreenstack
[19:34:11] wagnerrp: im usually not in arms reach of mine
[19:34:40] justinh: sphery: speaking, as you were, of consistency ;-)
[19:34:49] sphery: justinh: exactly!
[19:35:18] justinh: currently hitting 'back' 3 levels into a popup menu just dismisses the popup
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[19:35:34] justinh: kinda frustrating but I know why it's like that so I don't moan ;)
[19:35:35] stuartm: justinh: I've been thinking about that, mark added callback stuff to mdb so it could be used everywhere, and I have to say that it might be better if we convert the other uses to behave the same as the OSD
[19:35:46] sphery: right now, in the OSD, BACK just dismisses the entire OSD--meaning if you have info displayed and bring up the menu and hit back, it also dismisses the info screen
[19:36:00] justinh: heh
[19:36:13] wagnerrp: Korny2: im working on a rewrite of the jobqueue that intends to allow that
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[19:36:36] justinh: so anyway, how comes all these 'serious' distros have such a large footprint? we currently ship (at work) a 700MB ISO & the powers that be are complaining
[19:36:38] sphery: stuartm: but we would still use screenstacks, right?
[19:36:53] wagnerrp: not separate queues of separate types
[19:37:04] sphery: the callbacks just being instead of the if button = 0 do this else if button = 1 do that?
[19:37:18] wagnerrp: but a dynamic scaler, based off what the jobqueue has determined from experience a certain job needs
[19:37:23] wagnerrp: and what the system still has left to offer
[19:38:23] sphery: I'm givin' it all she's got, mythbackend!
[19:38:32] Korny2: wagnerrp have you checked out Sagejobque, its a plugin for sagetv that had a lot of cool features that I used
[19:38:40] Korny2: When running sagetv
[19:38:42] sphery: we may have to change mythbackend to mythcaptain... it would sound better that way
[19:38:46] wagnerrp: havent heard anything about it
[19:39:20] justinh: sagetv.. wooo.. very 1980s
[19:39:23] Korny2: It had some things I didn't like it about it as well, like a custom scripting language :/
[19:39:26] westlock3: Samsung LN40D550K1F New set. Matches the downstairs one almost. Audio problems solved upstairs. Still have some overscan problems with text being cut off the bottom of the picture when in "Full" in mythtv.
[19:39:27] Korny2: 80's?
[19:39:29] justinh: well it looked very 1980s anyway :D
[19:39:31] sphery: is that the one google bought?
[19:39:35] Korny2: yes
[19:39:37] sphery: what ever happened with that?
[19:39:42] sphery: is it dead or ?
[19:39:47] Korny2: Its dying a slow death
[19:40:03] sphery: hehe... but soon we'll see it with android integration
[19:40:05] Korny2: Software still works, but you can't buy licenses any more or hardware
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[19:40:35] wagnerrp: Korny2: i dont intend to change the automatic recording processing much from how it currently is
[19:41:00] wagnerrp: each recording will be allowed to run one task at the start of recording, and one task at the end
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[19:41:24] sphery: don't worry... Google will convince Logitech to make a bunch of cheap boxes to sell to consumers, and they won't sell, and Logitech will end up with warehouse next to their Revue warehouse
[19:41:39] wagnerrp: but it will all be done per recording rule
[19:42:06] wagnerrp: nothing as SJQ does where you set up rules where certain types of shows do certain things
[19:42:36] wagnerrp: its cleaner and more predictable the way mythtv handles it
[19:43:21] wagnerrp: each task will have a window it can run during, defined per host
[19:43:52] wagnerrp: and will allow tasks to be defined as disk intensive or cpu intensive
[19:44:03] Korny2: Can jobs be offloaded to secondary backends?
[19:44:10] wagnerrp: they can currently
[19:44:38] Korny2: I haven't fully delved into the job queing yet, more reading for me it seems
[19:45:31] wagnerrp: each mythbackend and each mythjobqueue runs one instance of the jobqueue
[19:45:32] wagnerrp: in the future, the jobqueue will be removed from the backend, running only in the external daemon
[19:46:01] Korny2: Thats kinda how SJQ works, you can run it on anybox really
[19:46:34] Korny2: The backend controlled it but you could install the software on anybox(windows or linux)
[19:46:44] Korny2: with appropriate paths of course
[19:46:51] justinh: how many jobs do users really need to be able to do?
[19:47:10] justinh: we already know transcoding is pretty much a waste of CPU power
[19:47:23] wagnerrp: justinh: lets say you want to run transcoding to a couple different formats, for different portable devices
[19:47:39] wagnerrp: transcoding is a waste of power for storage, but it makes perfect sense for compatibility
[19:48:01] justinh: hmmm]
[19:48:04] Korny2: The only time I even care about jobs actually is when watching semi live TV on multiple tvs on different channels
[19:48:13] justinh: eh?
[19:48:47] justinh: like HD on SD frontends perhaps?
[19:48:57] Korny2: No for commercial flagging
[19:49:27] Korny2: If it didn't count as a job, I'd only ever run 1 job at a time
[19:49:30] justinh: might've known
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[19:51:31] justinh: oh come now debian... just how big is a 'minimal' install anyway? grrr
[19:51:38] Korny2: lol
[19:51:53] Korny2: Is there such a thing?
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[19:53:35] justinh: seems not
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[19:57:15] justinh: heh. over 600MB
[19:57:25] justinh: how the hell is a basic linux install that big?
[19:57:36] justinh: that doesn't even have a GUI or anything else
[19:58:07] Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o wagnerrp
[19:58:20] Mode for #mythtv-users by wagnerrp!~wagnerrp_@mythtv/developer/wagnerrp : -q wizbit!*@*
[19:58:35] Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o wagnerrp
[19:58:52] ** wagnerrp needs a cheat sheet for these things **
[19:59:24] wizbit: ace :D
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[20:04:43] stuartm: justinh: because 'basic' includes a whole bunch of crap that isn't really needed, by anyone
[20:05:17] justinh: heh apparently
[20:06:06] justinh: the VM I've been using is packing up nicely at under 200MB though
[20:06:12] justinh: maybe it's all those docs
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[20:10:04] stuartm: docs are huge and the tools to create those docs you never read are even bigger (lots of fonts)
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[20:11:11] sphery: wait, there are docs in a GNU/Linux system? crazy--I thought people just had to ask how to use the tools on IRC or mailing lists or fora?
[20:11:15] justinh: yeah why does a non-gui install even need fonts?
[20:11:33] justinh: or font libs?
[20:15:28] ** wagnerrp wonders if he just got called a tool **
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[20:30:19] NewBuntu81: hi all! Recently, my frontends have been auto skipping (commercials) and going too far. Is there a way to set a maximum skip, such as 3 minutes?
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[20:34:31] wagnerrp: no, but there is a setting to make it cowardly refuse to skip beyond a certain length
[20:35:26] sphery: there's a way to change the commercial detector so it doesn't mark as a commercial any break longer than X seconds, but that setting may be going away
[20:35:50] wagnerrp: im talking about the 10-minute thing
[20:35:50] sphery: and you'd have to re-run detection on recordings to benefit from changing it
[20:35:59] wagnerrp: if it says the commercial is over 10 minutes long
[20:36:03] wagnerrp: it just wont do anything
[20:36:54] sphery: ah, yeah, that is a playback thing
[20:37:10] sphery: thought it was ignored at detection, not at playback
[20:37:27] sphery: anyway, might be disappearing
[20:38:14] sphery: seems to default to 1hr (meaning, for all intents and purposes, disabled)
[20:42:30] NewBuntu81: wagnerrp: where is the setting to make it refuse to skip beyond a certain length?
[20:43:13] sphery: frontend playback settings
[20:43:21] sphery: Maximum commercial skip (secs)
[20:45:48] stuartm: has to be in the top 5 of silly settings
[20:46:17] sphery: stuartm: yeah, I want to remove it
[20:46:51] sphery: I'm pretty sure I'll do it when I push my patch that changes the editor to allow you to skip on the flag list without importing the flag list as a cut list
[20:47:18] sphery: a secondary part of it is extending the progress bar in the editor to allow themers to show the flag list
[20:47:47] sphery: at which point, people would be able to just bring up info and see that it skipped 1/3 of the show
[20:48:18] sphery: (or would see that when they skip and it shows the "skipped 21:39" dialog with the progress bar
[20:49:06] sphery: then a skipcommback and they'll be back before where they were)
[20:49:26] sphery: was thinking there was a patch that added a minimum to match the max
[20:49:34] sphery: I must have closed that ticket, already, though
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[21:00:38] sphery: stuartm: ah, seems you closed it... It was #5863. Last time we discussed it, I asked if I could remove the max setting, too, but people seemed to want me to change it from the current default (3600s--meaning basically disabled) to "a reasonable value", but everyone had their own definition of reasonable... http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/4/2011-07-25:14:46:43 (and continued at 19:48)
[21:01:45] sphery: er, no, it was almost exactly a year before that discussion that I was told to use the reasonable defaults
[21:02:28] sphery: Jul 29 and Aug 8, 2010 if you have logs
[21:03:23] wagnerrp: stuartm: after a mindless rant by James Cobban, im reminded of the 'x' when running in windowed mode
[21:03:45] wagnerrp: 'x' behaves like 'esc', meaning it backs you out of the menus and finally closes the application
[21:03:52] wagnerrp: meaning we have to be catching and handling it in some manner
[21:03:59] wagnerrp: why not just close the application directly?
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[21:10:19] stuartm: wagnerrp: I'm not familiar with that, if we are handling 'x' then it's a jumppoint and not one that should be bound by default
[21:11:11] stuartm: oh, you mean the window managers 'x' – well that's even stranger, since I've never noticed special handling for that
[21:12:43] stuartm: I assume 'x' sends a signal to the app, I can't remember even looking at signal handling stuff
[21:13:34] wagnerrp: yeah, the top right corner 'x'
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[21:15:37] stuartm: wagnerrp: I can look at it, but right now I can't say anything useful about it
[21:16:40] wagnerrp: its been like that for years
[21:16:51] wagnerrp: likely for the very reason hardly anyone ever uses it
[21:16:58] wagnerrp: no rush, just found it curious
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[22:22:33] sphery: wagnerrp: Hehe, when the President cancels the Constellation program, what do you do? Rename it, er, start a new program called the Space Launch System, which may or may not look a lot like the Constellation's Ares V rocket.
[22:22:58] wagnerrp: and make the same god damn mistakes as last time
[22:23:24] sphery: which mistakes?
[22:23:26] wagnerrp: but no, i dont blame NASA
[22:23:42] wagnerrp: its not their fault, they are required to make the same mistakes, as mandated by congressional orders
[22:23:49] wagnerrp: SRBs
[22:23:52] sphery: ah, yeah
[22:24:08] sphery: those aren't ideal--but they are currently man-rated, which gives them a huge leg up over "from scratch" tech
[22:24:25] wagnerrp: no, theyre junk
[22:24:27] sphery: at least NASA says they plan to convert to liquid-fueled boosters in time
[22:24:32] wagnerrp: theyre dirt cheap, and theyre disposable
[22:24:37] wagnerrp: but we shouldnt be using either
[22:24:43] wagnerrp: theyre horribly inefficient
[22:24:54] sphery: boosters in general, you mean?
[22:24:55] wagnerrp: theyre simply not capable of carrying anything outside of LEO
[22:24:57] shipit (shipit!~shipit@67.221.38.116) has joined #mythtv-users
[22:25:03] wagnerrp: no, solid rockets
[22:25:17] sphery: well, only the 2 boosters are solid
[22:25:29] wagnerrp: the solid rockets are cheap, but you make up for it in fuel and structure cost
[22:25:41] sphery: the 5 main engines (same model as the shuttle used--but 5 instead of 3) are liquid fueled
[22:25:54] wagnerrp: as opposed to liquid rockets, where the fuel is relatively cheap, but the engines are expensive
[22:26:04] wagnerrp: so, you do what the shuttle attempted
[22:26:15] wagnerrp: you make very efficient rockets, you recover them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you reuse them
[22:26:21] sphery: yeah, throwing away 5 of the liquid engines per launch is, er, regrettable
[22:26:48] sphery: but IMHO, it's better than no US space program
[22:26:49] wagnerrp: except now weve got 35yrs of metallurgical and autonomous flight knowledge to actually pull it off
[22:27:52] sphery: thought it was funny, though--and I'm wondering if a certain man is getting very upset in his not-quite round office when thinking about how NASA may be directly contradicting his orders
[22:28:17] wagnerrp: contradicting how?
[22:28:20] sphery: (including his demand, er, challenge, to use something new and high-tech rather than recycled shuttle/apollo tech)
[22:28:51] sphery: because it's basically Constellation--which was cancelled
[22:28:52] wagnerrp: he rescinded the old order, and then gave basically the same order, with a different (and dumber) target
[22:29:25] sphery: rescinded the constellation concellation order?
[22:29:58] wagnerrp: no, he gave a different, similar order
[22:31:35] sphery: ah, the Apr 15 thing...
[22:32:21] wagnerrp: it really just pisses me off something i read a few days ago
[22:32:35] wagnerrp: something along the lines of "of course theyre using solid rockets, theyre so much more powerful"
[22:32:45] sphery: hehe
[22:32:55] wagnerrp: well no sh**, of course theyre more powerful, because you have to carry 5x the amount of fuel to get you up there
[22:33:15] wagnerrp: i mean people just dont realize that, solid rocket motors will /barely/ get you into orbit
[22:33:32] wagnerrp: it can be done, but your payloads will be so small, its just not worth it
[22:34:30] sphery: yeah
[22:34:55] wagnerrp: the shuttle weighed some 4M lbs fueled
[22:35:22] wagnerrp: and like 2.3Mlbs of that was the SRBs, which only fired for around two minutes of the eight minute launch
[22:36:11] sphery: I think their estimates of initial launch capability of 70 tons with a possibility of increassing that to 130 tons is dependent on their ability to convert to liquid-fuelled boosters
[22:36:12] wagnerrp: you could have replaced those SRBs with two sets of four SSMEs, strapped onto the sides, drawing off the main tank
[22:36:25] wagnerrp: and you could likely get away without any extra fuel beyond that main tank
[22:37:23] wagnerrp: theyre high enough up when they detach, that you might even get them back to shore with an unpowered parawing
[22:38:29] wagnerrp: the real problem is two fold
[22:38:46] wagnerrp: they ran those SSMEs so hard, with old materials tech, that they had to be rebuilt after each flight
[22:39:11] sphery: interesting--I didn't realize that
[22:39:12] wagnerrp: and it was just a static bell nozzle, designed for use at very high altitude, but being used all the way down at the ground
[22:39:19] wagnerrp: so launch performance was pretty terrible
[22:39:29] wagnerrp: like 360s at launch, compared to 450s in vacuum
[22:40:08] wagnerrp: that was the whole purpose of the aerospike, you get like 430s all the way up
[22:40:15] sphery: wow, and the SLS is using 5 SSMEs on the central first stage
[22:40:21] sphery: which means down to the ground, again
[22:40:39] wagnerrp: but the problem with the aerospike is the very design means you cant have strap on anything
[22:41:11] wagnerrp: well, since theyre doing independent stages, those 5 SSMEs will operate at a much smaller envelope
[22:41:24] wagnerrp: so they could better tune then for atmospheric operation
[22:41:31] sphery: ah, that's true
[22:41:33] wagnerrp: get them up to maybe 400s on the ground
[22:41:55] wagnerrp: they were just way overexpanded on the ground to allow for efficient vacuum operation
[22:42:05] sphery: their using basically Apollo J-2X engines on the upper stage
[22:42:08] sphery: they're
[22:42:32] PointyPumper (PointyPumper!~pintlezz@190.244.73.13) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:42:44] wagnerrp: i dont know why they dont use another de-rated SSME (RD-25)
[22:43:05] sphery: yeah, no idea why they chose the new ones derived from the apollo program
[22:43:07] wagnerrp: i mean its a LH2/LO2 engine
[22:43:13] wagnerrp: with maybe 75% the power
[22:43:20] wagnerrp: these things are all going to be discarded
[22:43:34] wagnerrp: so you make it all the same thing, you use the same production line, and get better economy of scale
[22:43:47] sphery: maybe they want to make sure that all those trips to the Hollywood parts dealers to try to figure out Apollo tech, again, weren't a waste
[22:43:51] wagnerrp: plus they dont have to retool everything to an engine not built since the early 70s
[22:44:09] sphery: are the upper stage engines also discarded?
[22:44:26] sphery: is it just using an orion capsule on top of a 2-stage rocket or something?
[22:45:16] wagnerrp: theyre all being discarded
[22:45:20] wagnerrp: its got to be three stage
[22:45:31] wagnerrp: youre not going anything interplanetary on a 2-stage with SRBs
[22:45:46] sphery: oh, yeah, this is supposed to be deep-space rocket
[22:45:50] sphery: forgot that part
[22:47:31] wagnerrp: the smaller bits of NASA are doing wonderful stuff
[22:47:33] sphery: seems that's the thing changing the capacity from 70 to 130 tons--they plan to eventually add an (Ares V) Earth Departure Stage... The initial design is the 70 tons to LEO design.
[22:47:45] wagnerrp: its these big projects
[22:47:47] sphery: at least based on wikipedia info
[22:47:53] sphery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System
[22:48:16] wagnerrp: theyre very public, so the politicians get involved for face time, and you end up with people with no technical background making decisions for non-technical reasons
[22:48:39] sphery: yes, that is probably the main problem with government-involved projects like this
[22:48:45] sphery: (same happens with DoD)
[22:50:10] PointyPumper (PointyPumper!~pintlezz@190.244.73.13) has joined #mythtv-users
[22:50:20] sphery: wikipedia also lists it as having 1 solid engine???
[22:50:42] sphery: I'm guessing I'll have to wait a bit to find out more real details
[22:51:01] wagnerrp: might be a GTO booster
[22:52:05] wagnerrp: youve got that whole range from ~1000km to ~20000km thats pretty nasty
[22:52:21] wagnerrp: you let satellites shut down when theyre in there
[22:52:26] wagnerrp: and you simply dont want people in there
[22:52:43] wagnerrp: so you push through that as fast as possible, and then turn on electric drives for deep space
[22:53:10] wagnerrp: but you're just talking all that much extra payload theyre wasting by using solid fuel
[22:54:43] sphery: wow, based on the wikipedia-posted schedule of flights, this is going to be a very expensive program
[22:55:35] sphery: like one flight in 2017, 2nd flight in 2021, then one flight a year through 2032... 13 flights in 16 years
[22:55:37] Dave123-road (Dave123-road!~dave@rrcs-24-39-102-31.nys.biz.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[22:55:54] sphery: (per-launch cost will be high, that is)
[22:57:43] Twiggy2cents: yay for nikita and supernatural!
[22:57:55] wagnerrp: thats what happens when you take high efficiency engines that were going to be expensive, but it was alright because they would be reused
[22:58:00] wagnerrp: and make them disposable
[22:58:39] sphery: Twiggy2cents: yeah, finally back!
[22:59:17] Twiggy2cents: I havent even read the plot yet. I would rather be completely surprised
[23:00:11] sphery: Terra Nova--the next big sci-fi show to be cancelled--has finally made my listings, so I can make a schedule for it
[23:00:49] Twiggy2cents: Is that the Jurassic Park looking show?
[23:01:06] wagnerrp: thats the problem with time travel, you know how its going to end
[23:01:12] wagnerrp: theyre all going to die horrible deaths
[23:01:16] sphery: yeah, Earth is destroyed, so they go back in time to when it wasn't destroyed
[23:01:24] sphery: but now they have to contend with dinos
[23:01:28] wagnerrp: (otherwise there would be evidence of their existence in the past)
[23:01:33] wagnerrp: whoops
[23:01:49] Twiggy2cents: Silly people could of gone to a time when man still thought they were on top...
[23:01:53] sphery: no, because this is the first cycle of time
[23:02:02] sphery: you don't think it's been done before do you?
[23:02:19] sphery: you sound like one of those people in the BSG future
[23:02:21] wagnerrp: they did it before
[23:02:56] wagnerrp: in order for them to have done it, they would have already done it
[23:03:02] wagnerrp: and if they did it, and were successful
[23:03:12] Twiggy2cents: paradox much?
[23:03:22] wagnerrp: there would have been evidence of a major civilization back then
[23:03:50] sphery: yeah, the whole time paradox thing is fun--you can take any side of the argument and no one can prove you right or wrong
[23:04:07] sphery: but it's funny because many act like they have such proof
[23:05:39] Twiggy2cents: My side is that if you do it you are stuck in a loop. (Referencing a Fringe episode) If you look at time as a fluid then it is safe to say that if you went back in time you would be stuck repeating it forever.
[23:06:00] sphery: wagnerrp: heh, I'm sure the Terra Nova (civilization--not Hollywood) designers will prove to have thought of that. So, they'll go back in time /but/ will only colonize the part of the planet that is now in the Gulf off the Yucatan--where the comet hit earth 65M years ago, so that after they're done with their civilization it will be wiped off the face of the earth
[23:06:21] sphery: so they can say that there's no evidence that they didn't succeed because that part of the planet is gone :)
[23:06:25] Twiggy2cents: I suppose though that that would mean there were more than one of you in time. I dunno I get these good ideas on it and then lose them because it quickly spirals into confusion
[23:07:49] sphery: A friend of mine professes verses from his own bible of time travel... It's fun to listen to his arguments on it.
[23:10:25] Twiggy2cents: Thanks for the heads up with Terra Nova. I just added it to my schedules
[23:11:11] Twiggy2cents: The show begins in the year 2149.... Great now we know to much about our future
[23:11:31] Twiggy2cents: Obviously the left traces of life behind, We know when the world is going to end
[23:15:10] Twiggy2cents: Mythtv is a bad thing.... I had series end and that opened up free time. Now I can choose to record new series that takes up my free time. Can I sue if I get fat and have health problems from watching too much dvr'ed tv?
[23:15:14] Twiggy2cents: :-P
[23:15:27] bobgill (bobgill!~smileyfac@CPE0016b6062e69-CM00222da10af5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has quit (Quit: buh-bye)
[23:15:34] wagnerrp: you can sue for your purchase price
[23:15:53] Twiggy2cents: lol
[23:16:17] Twiggy2cents: Well in that case I better get total reimbursement of the purchase price of the software
[23:19:46] sphery: Twiggy2cents: fwiw, you might be interested in creating an inactive, "First episodes," custom recording rule to alert you of new series
[23:20:28] sphery: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/188789#188789
[23:21:39] sphery: that said, I've added a new clause to catch episodes on original airdate with subtitle pilot because any more a lot of shows are aired out of order--so their programids won't match the First episodes example.
[23:22:20] sphery: http://pastebin.com/5WxSybtE being my SQL
[23:23:02] trux (trux!~trux@pool-173-74-124-83.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:24:02] ** iamlindoro watches *and* develops MythTV and manages not to get fat **
[23:24:25] sphery: hehe, I just realized that the example SQL uses DAYOFYEAR(), which means that if the series premiere of a show that originally aired on day 253 of 1961 happens to air on day 253 of 2012, it will be flagged as a a new series by the rule
[23:24:48] andreax (andreax!~andreaz@p57B94267.dip.t-dialin.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:25:07] sphery: maybe this is how those old shows keep coming back... Dr Who, Battlestar Galactica, The Bionic Woman, ...
[23:25:27] Twiggy2cents (Twiggy2cents!~darren@173-24-97-89.client.mchsi.com) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:28:08] ** wagnerrp watches *and* develops MythTV and manages not to get fat(ter) **
[23:30:51] ** sphery goes to the kitchen to make a salad out of guilt **
[23:30:57] Twiggy2cents (Twiggy2cents!~darren@173-24-97-89.client.mchsi.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:31:44] Twiggy2cents: thanks sphery I will look into that later
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[23:35:04] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: you need to take that cablecard discussion elsewhere... the threading has gone too deep, i can no longer see the message subjects
[23:35:05] wagnerrp: :)
[23:35:40] mattwj2002 (mattwj2002!~matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:35:47] mattwj2002: hi all
[23:35:48] ** iamlindoro promises to break threading every message from now on **
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[23:38:05] mattwj2002: well guys I ordered the WinTV-DCR-2650 today
[23:38:15] wagnerrp: seriously, its rare to ever see one get that long before someone pipes up with a broken email client
[23:38:41] mattwj2002: hopefully I get it soon
[23:39:04] wagnerrp: or branch it off into some losely related tangent
[23:39:54] wagnerrp: by the way, i unmuted that wiz bit guy earlier today
[23:40:05] wagnerrp: apparently you muted him way back in may when he was being drunk and retarded
[23:40:55] mattwj2002: xris are you here? :)
[23:41:16] iamlindoro: just as long as we're okay with me re-muting him the next time he does it
[23:41:21] iamlindoro: which will be the next time he speaks
[23:41:25] iamlindoro: since he's dustybin
[23:41:31] wagnerrp: oh?
[23:41:33] iamlindoro: yep
[23:41:36] wagnerrp: didnt know he changed his name
[23:42:05] iamlindoro: yup
[23:43:16] wagnerrp: i just thought he PM'd me at random among the voiced in the channel
[23:45:48] xris: mattwj2002: sort of here. what's up?
[23:47:11] mattwj2002: I ordered a WinTV-DCR-2650
[23:47:12] mattwj2002: :D
[23:47:44] mattwj2002: did yours come today by any chance?
[23:49:17] xris: yesterday
[23:49:29] xris: you were gone by the time I commented about testing it with QAM and it working fine.
[23:49:35] mattwj2002: nice
[23:49:40] xris: silicondust software sees it as an hrhr prime with 2 tuners
[23:49:40] mattwj2002: does it work well?
[23:49:47] mattwj2002: how is the quality?
[23:50:03] xris: it's digital. just the raw signal, same as a normal hdhr
[23:50:07] jm|laptop (jm|laptop!~jamiem@dilbert.jamiem.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:50:07] xris: cablecard appointment is next tuesday
[23:50:10] jm|laptop: hello :)
[23:50:16] k-man: hi jm|laptop
[23:50:20] mattwj2002: appointment?
[23:50:25] mattwj2002: the guy needs to come out?
[23:50:27] jm|laptop: where is a channel marked as HD in mythtv, please?
[23:50:38] jm|laptop: I have a channel that *is* HD but not showing so in listing
[23:50:39] xris: $30 vs me driving an hour each way to pick up the card.
[23:51:09] mattwj2002: an hour really?
[23:51:12] xris: jm|laptop: comes from wherever you get your data
[23:51:15] mattwj2002: ouch
[23:51:21] jm|laptop: I have four DVB-T2 HD channels, three show HD
[23:51:23] xris: mattwj2002: in traffic, yes. without, maybe 40 mins
[23:51:31] jm|laptop: xris: oh, Freeview EIT :/
[23:51:39] mattwj2002: who is your provider?
[23:51:44] k-man: jm|laptop, what country are you in out of interest?
[23:52:07] xris: jm|laptop: just saying, that's where mythtv gets the hd flag.. from mythfilldatabase (and where it gets it).
[23:52:19] jm|laptop: k-man: UK
[23:52:45] jm|laptop: xris: could I force it in the database?
[23:53:05] xris: probably. I don't know the exact field name. but it shouldn't make a difference, iirc it's just an informational field.
[23:53:33] jm|laptop: I can't find the field, either. It's just useful for when scanning 'upcoming recordings' to make sure it's grabbed the HD version
[23:53:56] jm|laptop: doesn't seem to be in `channel`
[23:54:27] sphery: it's per-program
[23:54:30] wagnerrp: jm|laptop: just because the channel can be HD doesnt mean the actual content is HD
[23:54:38] sphery: as even HDTV channels show non-HDTV content
[23:54:43] wagnerrp: it could be SD, it could be SD upscaled to HD
[23:54:44] jm|laptop: wagnerrp: granted. Some are upscaled.
[23:54:46] sphery: (upscaled old content, for exmaple)
[23:54:47] jm|laptop: sphery: okay, thanks
[23:54:51] xris: jm|laptop: what wagnerrp said. better to trust the show's on hd flag
[23:54:53] jm|laptop: it's showing none, though :/
[23:55:01] xris: but EIT likely doesn't store that.
[23:55:02] LedHed (LedHed!~LedHed@static-74-45-162-66.dr01.pasn.ca.frontiernet.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:55:12] sphery: jm|laptop: best bet, though, is to find out if your EIT data contains such information and fix the EIT parser to insert it
[23:55:15] jm|laptop: xris: it does for the other three HD channels :S
[23:55:29] sphery: (I'm assuming you're not using XMLTV data since I know the xmltv parser will handle it)
[23:55:34] jm|laptop: sphery: where might I find eit dump?
[23:55:43] jm|laptop: no, eit
[23:56:04] sphery: so you're saying it shows up on programs on the other 3 HDTV channels?
[23:56:10] jm|laptop: yes
[23:56:17] jm|laptop: also the description has [HD]
[23:56:24] jm|laptop: e.g. Dermot O'Leary presents the sixth set of auditions as judges Louis Walsh, Kelly Rowland, Tulisa Contostavlos and Gary Barlow continue their star search across the country. [HD]
[23:56:34] sphery: is that in the description itself?
[23:56:38] jm|laptop: yes
[23:56:48] sphery: or is that in the hdtv field and mythtv adds it after the description in the screen/page you're looking at?
[23:56:57] jm|laptop: it goes on "(Widescreen, Subtitles Available, Stereo) "
[23:56:59] k-man (k-man!~k-man@unaffiliated/k-man) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:57:00] jm|laptop: um oh.
[23:57:02] sphery: (where "that" in the hdtv field would be a 1)
[23:57:13] ** jm|laptop looks for that table **
[23:57:26] sphery: jm|laptop: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "SELECT COUNT(*) FROM program WHERE hdtv = 1;"
[23:58:18] jm|laptop: 659
[23:58:38] sphery: OK, then we are handling it, so it means that the channel for which no shows are marked is not actually transmitting that info
[23:58:50] k-man (k-man!~k-man@unaffiliated/k-man) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:59:17] sphery: it's possible that there's an EIT fixup for your EIT provider (in MythTV) that notices "(HDTV)" at the end of a description or something, and then fills in the hdtv flag if it's there
[23:59:27] sphery: or there may actually be some field in EIT to specify it
[23:59:30] jm|laptop: SELECT COUNT(hdtv) FROM program where title LIKE "the x factor" AND hdtv=1;
[23:59:30] jm|laptop: 0
[23:59:57] jm|laptop: I could write a nast-e script for it

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