| Thursday, November 8th, 2018, 01:34 UTC | ||
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| [09:08:53] | stuarta: | peterbennett: if you left of the fixes / refs keyword then you just have to manually do it, if it's due to the trac hooks, i'll recheck them shortly |
| [09:09:20] | stuarta: | peterbennett: re the builders that can't find github, that must be a local issue to those builders |
| [09:13:09] | stuarta: | peterbennett: yup, both of those VM's are provided by the same person, so definitely a local issue |
| [09:16:27] | Steve-Goodey: | stuarta: tgm4883 Yaah. 0.29/fixes updated my box this morning. |
| [09:33:48] | stuarta: | \o/ |
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| [10:29:10] | stuarta: | right, now i know what was going on with the buildbot9 configuration, lemme see if i can get that up and running |
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| [20:23:25] | gigem: | What are everyone's thoughts on dropping support for DataDirect? The xmltv alternatives are mature and dropping DD support would simplify mythfilldatabase. |
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| [21:30:41] | jpabq: | gigem: fine with me, however there are some optimizations which should be done to mythfilldatabase. With Directv having thousands of (mostly useless) channels, mythfilldatabase is extremely inefficient dealing with the XMLTV data. |
| [21:31:00] | jpabq: | gigem: I will try to get that HDHomeRun working soonish, so I can try your HDHomeRun patch. |
| [21:32:22] | jpabq: | I bet SchedulesDirect would love to drop support for the old interface. Not that that would happen anytime soon. |
| [21:39:54] | peterbennett: | jpabq: gigem: dropping data direct is a good plan, but the setup of xmltv is rather clunky. Maybe good to have a better setup and better way of selecting channels. Also the memory usage is problematic. I have a script that does 3 days at a time. |
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| [22:19:57] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: dropping DD. I have some opinions (surprise surprise). I think dropping DD is goodness. It has been talked about previously. I recommend announcing it to the community with the release of V30 (early next year?) and doing so with an early commit to master after the tag. |
| [22:21:54] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: dropping DD. For a new user, using XMLTV is probably the right choice, but for conversion(s) from existing DD users, there are artifacts (see #12989 for a couple of manual ways to minimize *some* of the artifacts). |
| [22:21:54] | ** MythLogBot https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12989 ** | |
| [22:23:57] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. I had a couple of ideas regarding the memory usage (basically, do things in chunks), but I was not going to even consider starting such work until all the DD code was removed. |
| [22:25:30] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. I doubt SD cares a lot one way or another, since they have legacy users (and their replay TV commercial users) that I think depend on the DD feed. Much longer term they might care. Where much longer would be more towards a decade I would expect. |
| [22:27:45] | peterbennett: | gary_buhrmaster: What about the interface? Needing to go into a terminal and set up stuff and also the yes/no method of going through 500 channels to select which ones you want. |
| [22:28:38] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. I think the biggest problem with XMLTV is trying to use mythtv-setup inline to do any of the setup of the xmltv grabber. |
| [22:29:38] | peterbennett: | Agreed, I wonder it there is a way to fix that. |
| [22:33:04] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. Re: xmltv setup. I would just move to changing the docs to say setup your grabber outside mythtv, and specify its name in mythtv (which is what I did with my docs for the HDHR premium TV service). While some grabbers are trivial to setup, some are less so. |
| [22:33:39] | jpabq: | Personally, I want to do away with mythtv-setup. I want to replace it either with a non-gui application, or with a web based interface. There are a bunch of settings currently in mythfrontend which belong in the backend setup, and those should be moved, as well. |
| [22:33:48] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. re: xmltv setup. Or move to using the xmltv setup API (xml based). |
| [22:36:15] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. re: mythtv-setup. You might have noticed that in the docs I provided for the HDHR Premium TV service I used the services API rather than mythtv-setup, so I think we are in strong agreement on disappearing mythtv-setup in the long(er) term (which was also, as I recall, a stated direction from the project (although it used the web frontend)). |
| [22:36:53] | jpabq: | web frontend is fine with me. |
| [22:37:48] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. Re: channel selection. This obviously depends on the grabber, but I think we are in disagreement about philosophy here. I consider this a case of talking about minor database disk space. Just load it all. Disable the channels in MythTV for those that you don't want to record from. (DB) Disk space is cheap. The time to load is irrelevant unless you are sitting in front of the terminal (and that happens at most on |
| [22:38:32] | jpabq: | It is the RAM usage while loading all that data, that is the main issue. Hitting swap sucks. |
| [22:38:38] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. And finally, as I am not a decider (just an opinionator), you should take zero value in my input. |
| [22:40:00] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. As I said previously, doing things in chunks would (hopefully) address that. I seem to recall that was at least viable, although not trivial. But the DD code artifacts made things more convoluted (or maybe I am thinking of something else, I know something was convoluted). |
| [22:40:42] | jpabq: | Yeah, just a matter of doing the work... |
| [22:45:51] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. Re: work. That is why I offered the "--no-allatonce" option path, which was the minimal (but workable) mitigation (as long as you also do a "--refreshall") which was committed by one of your various esteemed colleagues (Peter? Maybe someone else, I don't remember the details). |
| [22:57:07] | gary_buhrmaster: | Re: Dropping DD. Re: channel selection. Oh, and btw, you can disable channels in MythTV using the services API (look to MythUtil-Channel-visibility as an example script which can mark most channels to the values you want to make visible in MythTV). |
| [23:06:09] | gary_buhrmaster: | btw, (again, I should have zero input into the project), someone *really* needs to post to the dev list if you want to make early Dec the v30 freeze date. If for no other reason to say "I told you so!". It does not have to be anything more than a "The project plans to cut a v30 with code freeze as Dec 3rd. Anyone with something they think should make the cut, submit now, or hold your code". Please. A 30 second post from an ac |
| [23:06:09] | gary_buhrmaster: | oject dev. Please. |
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| [23:13:06] | gigem: | jpabq: Okay. FWIW, I'm inclined to commit tomorrow or this weekend. I'm pretty confident it's good and it doesn't look like anyone else is interested in testing as a patch. |
| [23:16:43] | gary_buhrmaster: | gigem: if this is the improved hdhr stuff, not lack of interest, just lack of time for testing. I (for one) welcome updating the wiki and the github project as essentially archived as no longer relevant. |
| [23:16:48] | gigem: | Re. dropping DD: I'm fine with dropping it right after v30. I agree with cleahing up mythfilldatabase and improving memory usage *after* removing DD support. I also agree with enabling all channels in xmltv and disabling as needed in mythtv proper. The extra disk space used is insignificant compared to the recordings. |
| [23:18:04] | peterbennett: | gigem: By Disabling do you mean mark not visible? |
| [23:19:09] | peterbennett: | Re the next release V30, Shall I sent out an email as suggested by Stuart and Gary? What date do we want? |
| [23:20:10] | peterbennett: | I think dropping DD should be after V30 (i.e. V31). |
| [23:20:15] | gigem: | gary_buhrmaster: I wasn't pointing any fingers. Yes, this is the locking and pooling support. If you meant archiving mythhdhrrecorder, I think it still has value for using the http streaming. I'm have no intention of adding that and will leave that for jpabq to do. |
| [23:20:43] | gigem: | peterbennett: Yes, mark invisible in mythtv. xmltv always pulls all available channels. |
| [23:21:19] | peterbennett: | gigem: Even when marked invisible, channel up/down in Live TV selects the channel |
| [23:22:57] | gary_buhrmaster: | gigem: yes, http streaming can be a *real* win over udp if you do not set your buffer sizes, and you do not have an advanced switch to mitigate against packet loss (FD: I have an advanced switch). For a future commit (from jpabq I guess). |
| [23:27:00] | peterbennett: | It is very easy to mark channels invisible from MythWeb but rather awkward from mythtv-setup. Also I seem to remember that mythfilldatabase may reset the channels to visible again. |
| [23:27:16] | gigem: | peterbennett: That's a bug, then. Is there an open tick for it? |
| [23:27:49] | gigem: | gary_buhrmaster: My switch must be good then since I've never had to do anything special. |
| [23:28:02] | peterbennett: | gigem: Not as far as I know, I seem to remember asking about it on the mailing list and being told that is how it is supposed to work. |
| [23:28:59] | gigem: | Invisible is supposed to act like the channel isn't even there. Period. |
| [23:30:12] | peterbennett: | If you run mythfilldatabase with default options it will add new channels every time SD adds them, this is a problem because the scheulder can then find one of your shows on a newly added channel that you do not actually get. |
| [23:30:53] | gary_buhrmaster: | gigem: The default for some more recent switches works (because they provide a few queues, including for VoIP), but I can trivially lose packets with synthetic loads (which means that you likely will not run into it, but you can, and I manage my switches for worst case, not average). |
| [23:33:03] | gigem: | peterbennett: That's part of my rationale for dropping DD support — we can try to improve channel management. |
| [23:34:41] | gigem: | For example, mythtv can report that there are new channels and put them in a new limbo state pending direction from the user. That's something I won't even consider working on until mythfilldatabase is cleaned up. |
| [23:36:07] | peterbennett: | OK sounds good for V31. |
| [23:36:10] | gary_buhrmaster: | peterbennett: For SD, because of this, I specify --only-update-guide for all mythfilldatabase runs (*I* don't control how the cable company adds channels), and since for cable it depends on your specific subscription (that can change at any time), and I use a HDHR, I use tools such as MythUtil-HDHR-channelcheck to deal with changes (in theory you can do the same with a Ceton, but AFAIK no one parses the Ceton pages, although the |
| [23:36:10] | gary_buhrmaster: | there). |
| [23:36:12] | gigem: | gary_buhrmaster: My switch in question is at least 4 or 5 years old. |
| [23:38:22] | gary_buhrmaster: | gigem: 4–5 years old is recent (in these terms). |
| [23:38:23] | gigem: | Full disclosure: I use gary_buhrmaster's scripts too. I also do some other non-standard things too that I'd like to better automate. |
| [23:39:45] | gary_buhrmaster: | peterbennett: btw, all these gyrations should be recognized as a very US specific problem. I suspect outside of the US things are different (and likely easier). |
| [23:42:00] | gary_buhrmaster: | gigem: NO! Don't use those gary_buhrmaster's scripts. They are EVIL. More to the point, yes, gary_buhrmaster has created an entire eco-system of scripts to do what he wanted MythTV to do. If they are useful to others that suggest opportunities to improve MythTV for US users. Let us make sure to ask for input from the non-US users. |
| [23:50:16] | gary_buhrmaster: | (apropos to nothing/everything) now that I have thrown in the grenades at the deciders, I am off to catch the train. Later. |
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| [23:55:30] | gigem: | gary_buhrmaster: Did I miss a smiley somewhere? My point is mythtv currently stinks at channel management and we need to improve it. How we do that is a big TBD. Whatever we do, of course, we should try to make it applicable to all users. |
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