Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, March 11th, 2016, 00:46 UTC

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[09:57:28]

stuarta:

some nice work by peter bennet on building debs for the rpi2 and above

[10:03:28]

ikevin:

does pi3 can play 1080p video with myth?

[10:14:14]

jmcentee:

ikevin: I believe it does, but if mpeg2 or vc1 you need the license.

[10:15:38]

jmcentee:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/597332

[10:18:07]

jmcentee:

and http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/597277 states

[10:18:18]

jmcentee:

Both of these mythtv images play smooth video and clear sound.

[10:19:02]

jmcentee:

Most people are testing on a rpi2 as well, not the just release rpi3

[10:21:29]

ikevin:

i'll try when my pi3 will be received, thx for the links :)

[11:24:50]

stuartm:

ikevin: yes it plays back both mpeg2 and h.264 just fine here

[11:25:38]

stuartm:

although 1080p mpeg2 might be a stretch – can't say since all HD content here is H.264

[11:26:44]

stuartm:

it might be falling back to software for mpeg2, but I've not noticed that being the case – I haven't yet bought licenses

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[11:27:33]

stuartm:

what I have had problems with is the power draw of the Pi3 – especially since I installed the latest firmware, it's regularly overvolting even on a 2.4amp power supply :/

[11:34:09]

stuartm:

my second RPi v3 just arrived ... how's that for timing

[11:44:05]

jmcentee:

interesting, I believe the rpi fails back to software for mpeg if it is not licensed.

[11:45:08]

jmcentee:

there are posts (probably orginial rpi) say mpeg2 not good enough unless the license is installed, mostly on the kodi forums

[11:53:42]

stuartm:

my testing hasn't been extensive, but I noticed no issues

[11:54:14]

stuartm:

in the US in particular they'll have HD mpeg2 which would probably tax it harder

[12:01:22]

stuarta:

i might have an mpeg2 hd sample from when they were broadcasting that from crystal palace

[12:01:59]

ikevin:

in france we only have h264 hd

[12:03:45]

stuarta:

ah no, it's h264

[12:16:16]

stuartm:

I'll do some more testing tonight, it's a bit of a pain because my HDMI > DVI adapter has apparently failed after just a few days so I have to keep swapping cables on the screen to change between the Pi and the desktop

[12:16:45]

** stuarta facepalms **

[12:33:25]

stuartm:

aww, Synergy arm packages for the latest version – Debian is typically shipping something very old and incompatible with the version I have installed

[13:04:39]

stuarta:

i'm surprised core debian doesn't just install and run on the rpi....

[13:05:14]

jmcentee:

I think the install bit it the difficult bit.

[13:06:09]

jmcentee:

before the raspberry pi came out, debian had decide to support armv7 and later. the original rpi was armv6

[13:06:17]

stuarta:

since jessie has everything we need for mythtv, i would be nice to be able to just install jessie

[13:06:48]

stuarta:

rpi2 is armv7? and rpi3 armv8 ??

[13:07:33]

jmcentee:

I don't know the debain status today.

[13:07:43]

jmcentee:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/

[13:08:21]

stuarta:

heh, well that should work then

[13:08:25]

jmcentee:

are images for jessie (desktop or minial install) that you just dd to the SD card

[13:08:44]

stuarta:

maybe i should just buy an rpi3

[13:08:47]

jmcentee:

even easier than an install.

[13:08:56]

stuarta:

so i can ignore it, and it can feel unloved

[13:10:34]

jmcentee:

I have a few for plans gennerally unloved, but one runs squeezebox in the bedroom

[13:25:46]

jmcentee:

https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi for debian status on rpi

[13:26:29]

stuarta:

tbh i would be most likely to use the official distro

[13:27:54]

jmcentee:

the second paragraph does say. Generally, your best bet is to use Raspbian

[13:28:15]

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[13:36:58]

stuarta:

i'd end up like stuartm, buying 2, one to stick in the garage and run builds, the other to play with

[13:39:08]

jmcentee:

I have 2xB 2xA 1xB2 so far (maybe another B+ as part of an end user device)

[13:39:36]

jmcentee:

nope 2xA is 2xA+

[13:39:48]

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[13:40:02]

stuarta:

and one r2d2 to join them all together

[13:40:32]

jmcentee:

Thats, next weeks plan.

[13:45:11]

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[13:51:48]

stuartm:

I have an original RPi too if we want to do Armv6 builds

[13:53:17]

stuartm:

and a PiZero – though that's the same architecture as a first gen Pi and not even worth considering as a frontend

[13:54:38]

stuartm:

will probably end up with a few Pi Zeros – have a couple of projects in mind

[13:55:36]

stuartm:

one RPi 3 will go in the car, one will be a frontend and I'll probably end up with a third before long to act as a dedicated builder

[13:57:54]

jmcentee:

I plan to get my rpi b to be my internal dns/dhcp etc and remote wake my VM server when needed

[13:58:40]

jmcentee:

isn't a qmu image quicker to build on?

[13:58:47]

stuarta:

stuartm: given how quickly they can actually build, it would be beneficial for multiple people to run builders with the same config

[13:59:14]

stuarta:

jmcentee: probably, but nobody has set one up. i started, then had to move onto other things

[13:59:22]

stuarta:

apparently, it's still horribly slow....

[14:00:56]

stuartm:

I didn't time the initial build without ccache, started it going then went to bed, but it seemed to be getting through it well – comparable with my first builds over ten years ago on x86

[14:04:09]

stuarta:

stuartm: which vendor did you buy your rpi3's from?

[14:05:15]

stuartm:

PiHut (http://thepihut.com/) – got my first one there as I had a coupon to jump the queue, bought the second there just because I was too lazy to go elsewhere

[14:05:27]

stuarta:

heh

[14:05:45]

jmcentee:

I tend to use farnell over RS

[14:06:12]

stuartm:

yeah, should be pointed out that my second one which arrived this morning came in RS packaging ...

[14:06:32]

stuarta:

RS won't ship to end users, the bastards

[14:06:57]

stuartm:

really? Interesting, they used to ...

[14:07:05]

jmcentee:

they did in the early days, but they where more expesive on packaging

[14:08:12]

jmcentee:

um, pihut seem to be cheaper, cpc.farnell.com have them in stock

[14:09:06]

stuartm:

well there you go then

[14:10:06]

stuarta:

does anyone actually use the noobs installer?

[14:10:25]

stuartm:

fwiw, I backordered the second one from PiHut on Saturday, arrived today

[14:10:41]

jmcentee:

http://www.modmypi.com/

[14:10:43]

stuartm:

first one arrived the day after ordering

[14:10:48]

stuarta:

"due in 11th march" so they must have come in yesterday

[14:11:07]

jmcentee:

1p cheaper

[14:11:39]

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[14:11:48]

** stuarta ponders if you can stick an SSD on one of those connectors **

[14:12:59]

stuartm:

no, no sata or similar, usb 2 is the best you get in that regard

[14:13:00]

stuarta:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/20739553 . . . raspberry-pi

[14:13:03]

jmcentee:

nope

[14:13:43]

stuartm:

well that's enterprising – I wonder which GPIO pins/interface it actually uses

[14:13:56]

stuarta:

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-pi-102- . . . -includes-mo

[14:14:11]

jmcentee:

probably usb

[14:14:32]

stuarta:

the one from scan fesses up to be usb->mSata bridge

[14:14:41]

jmcentee:

scan link says Connect Raspberry Pi USB to mSATA SSD

[14:15:15]

stuarta:

does the rpi3 maintain the same connector as the rpi2? ie. would those "just work"

[14:15:20]

stuartm:

"The PiDrive interfaces the Pi's USB bus to the SATA interface on the mSATA drive. This is the same way that an external USB hard drive drive enclosure works but it all fits within, and is powered by, the Pi."

[14:15:27]

jmcentee:

even the banana pi m3 with onboard sata uses usb->sata

[14:15:33]

stuartm:

interesting, I didn't know you could route usb through the GPIO

[14:16:04]

stuartm:

stuarta: yes, connections are identical on the RPi 3

[14:16:27]

stuarta:

ahah, they cheat. review on the scan link says you have to supply your own usb cable

[14:16:44]

stuarta:

which if you look closely you can see

[14:17:10]

stuartm:

and will stay that way for future versions too as there is a huge ecosystem of addons, guides and programs – changing it now would piss off a whole lot of people

[14:17:27]

stuarta:

indeed, that would be commercial suicide

[14:17:36]

stuartm:

then what are they even using the pins for, except to support the board?

[14:17:46]

stuarta:

power probably

[14:18:35]

jmcentee:

um, the kickstarter link also states "Custom cable to connect the PiDrive to a Pi USB port"

[14:19:24]

jmcentee:

the broadcom chip on the raspberrypi only has 1 usb port

[14:20:24]

stuartm:

but there is a built-in hub

[14:20:49]

stuartm:

however, that would hurt performance if you are using another usb device

[14:21:36]

stuartm:

speeds are nothing to get too excited about – https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/20739553 . . . osts/1299822

[14:21:36]

jmcentee:

the b models have the built-in usb hub and ethernet, the A model just make the 1 port avaliable.

[14:22:29]

stuartm:

really the only appeal is that it's designed to be able to fit inside some cases along with the pi, which saves space – however heat may be an issue

[14:23:06]

stuartm:

jmcentee: right, I didn't realise you were talking about the A

[14:23:33]

jmcentee:

I was talking about the broadcom chip itself.

[14:25:13]

jmcentee:

I believe the rpi3 will be able to boot from network or usb stick, whcih could make the sd card avaliable of other uses.

[14:25:48]

jmcentee:

aAs i understand it all the other i/o pin on the GPIO are just not that fast.

[14:26:11]

jmcentee:

I think the I2S pins are the fastest.

[14:28:50]

stuartm:

yeah, I believe net booting was mentioned

[14:29:17]

stuartm:

not really sure what else you'd using the SD card slot for though and it's not like SD cards are expensive

[14:31:03]

stuarta:

i'm meant to be renovating my kitchen, so i've no idea why i'm even looking at an rpi3. ENOTIME

[14:33:18]

jmcentee:

the SD card connects dirrectly to the broadcom chip. I think that may be the fastest i/o connection, but is currently always used, so is ineffect out of bound to play with.

[14:34:57]

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[14:34:59]

jmcentee:

There is a SD i/o spec

[14:51:25]

stuartm:

hmm

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[17:12:51]

stuartm:

so mpeg2 playback isn't that stable without the mpeg2 hardware decoding, so I've bought licenses for that and vc1

[17:14:54]

gedakc:

stuartm: If your talking about the Raspberry Pi 2, then I would agree. My experience is that the MPEG-2 license and OpenMAX video playback profile makes watching mythtv recordings a pleasure.

[17:16:13]

stuartm:

gedakc: yes and no, I'm talking about the RPi 3 – which is powerful enough to do mpeg2 decoding in software, just not quite powerful enough to be smooth 100% of the time

[17:18:01]

gedakc:

That's cool that you have an RPi3. I wondered if it would be powerful enough. Thank you for sharing that information. Fortunately the MPEG-2 license is not very expensive.

[17:18:20]

stuartm:

sadly I still have mpeg2 content, cannot wait until every channel is available in HD (H.264)

[17:19:07]

stuarta:

by then they will start broadcasting in h265 just to piss us off

[17:19:16]

stuartm:

no, it's worth the money even if it could do it in software since that leaves some overhead for other features like timestretch (we hope)

[17:19:40]

stuartm:

stuarta: probably

[17:19:57]

gedakc:

I'm recording ATSC OTA content in Canada so all is in MPEG-2 content. Can the RPi3 play H.264 smoothly without any licenses?

[17:20:12]

stuartm:

why did we have to be the pioneers of digital television and get stuck with the crappy old codec?

[17:20:46]

stuartm:

gedakc: yes, since they include H.26 licenses within the cost of the RPi (all versions)

[17:20:52]

stuartm:

H.264

[17:21:15]

stuartm:

so all versions use hardware decoding for H.264

[17:21:16]

dekarl1:

I can add the Odroid C2 to https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/ARM_Systems :)

[17:21:33]

gedakc:

Re: included H.264 license with RPi — that's good to know.

[17:21:34]

stuartm:

and you also get hardware encoding (standalone transcoder anyone?)

[17:22:14]

dekarl1:

stuartm: i pondered with that. but iiuic its I and P frames only...

[17:22:34]

dekarl1 is now known as dekarl

[17:22:54]

stuartm:

oh ... hmm, figures there would be a catch

[17:22:54]

dekarl:

might be good enough for HLS streaming though (encode – stream – throw away)

[17:24:02]

stuartm:

yes, perhaps it would be possible to slave the Pi solely as an HLS transcoder for WebFrontend, though it would complicate things perhaps more than is required

[17:26:38]

stuartm:

we need Nvidia GPU based hardware encoding

[17:28:25]

gedakc:

Is NVidia partnering with anyone now to include it's GPU on a System On a Chip?

[17:29:07]

stuartm:

not unless you count Tegra

[17:30:00]

stuarta:

beirdo was working on stuff like that before he gave up

[17:32:43]

dekarl:

stuartm, isn't that done with allowing transcode jobs only on the job/slave backend – that happens to have the hardware encoder. mabye needs a split in software transcode and hardware transcode jobs to get the best of both worlds.

[17:33:32]

gedakc:

I am impressed with the work that has been done to get the RPi2 to function as a mythfrontend. It's hard to beat the price and low-power needed with this solution.

[17:33:35]

dekarl:

guess its one of the "we're 80% there, just need the other 80% now" features :)

[17:34:46]

stuarta:

it might actually lead to more contributors, since a lot of people would love to have one working

[17:34:50]

** stuarta goes home **

[17:34:54]

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[17:41:11]

** stuartm leaves work, arrives home **

[17:42:00]

stuartm:

actually, that's a lie, going to be working for another hour at least

[17:53:04]

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[17:54:09]

tmkt:

So moved from Mythtv to Tvheadend...but pretty sick of tvheadend crashing on me..not an issue i had with Myth, but trying to install mythtv via cli which seems impossible

[17:54:48]

tmkt:

feel it might be easier to just wipe the box and install mythbuntu again

[17:57:40]

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[17:58:52]

stuartm:

tmkt: use ssh with X11 forwarding

[17:59:13]

stuartm:

though mythbuntu is going to ease some of the pain

[17:59:46]

tgm4883:

or 'git commit -m "backend web setup";

[18:00:43]

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[18:01:04]

stuartm:

tgm4883: heh, if only anyone had actually worked on it for the 0.28 cycle – I should have done, after all I'm the biggest critic of the current setup process and I did all the work on the services and http server

[18:01:17]

stuartm:

but the WebFrontend was more fun

[18:01:36]

tgm4883:

which is the crux of the issue with many open source projects

[18:01:39]

tgm4883:

"this is more fun"

[18:03:30]

stuartm:

if setting up MythTV was something we all did every other week, then it would have been sorted years ago – but I'm still running the MythTV backends I setup and configured over ten years ago

[18:04:04]

tgm4883:

yes that is the problem.... Maybe we should write a plugin that checks if you are a dev and then wipes your setup randomly

[18:04:17]

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[18:04:35]

tgm4883:

mythholyshitwhydoesthiskeephappening

[18:04:53]

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[18:05:21]

tgm4883:

I would totally look at it, if I wasn't already doing other fun stuff

[18:05:30]

tgm4883:

like trying to figure out why mysql hangs our install

[18:25:54]

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[19:06:30]

stuartm:

ok, side by side comparison of OpenMax vs VDPAU – colour levels are wrong, blacks are grey and the image lacks sharpness, with a low res recording the result is like a watercolour painting – washed out and with a horrible softness

[19:06:54]

dekarl:

stuartm, studio levels?

[19:06:59]

stuartm:

yes

[19:07:06]

dekarl:

"black are grey" sounds like that

[19:07:11]

stuartm:

but I've not found an open to change it

[19:08:31]

dekarl:

is that VDPAU in the Pi?

[19:08:49]

dekarl:

as in "same device, other api"

[19:08:59]

stuartm:

that at least is definitely the reason for the washed out appearance, I'm assuming the deinterlacer is responsible for the lousy picture which looks more compressed than the source

[19:09:23]

stuartm:

dekarl: no vdpau from my desktop vs openmax on the Pi, same screen

[19:15:30]

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[19:16:18]

stuartm:

http://openelec.tv/forum/124-raspberry-pi/674 . . . -space#88088

[19:16:34]

stuartm:

so it's a config option and fixable (hurray)

[19:18:22]

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[19:24:13]

stuartm:

right, colour levels are fixed, might actually be better than the desktop, blacks are a little blacker ...

[19:24:42]

stuartm:

changed the deinterlacing from Advanced to Fast – it's an improvement, but still not as good as VDPAU Advanced

[19:28:00]

stuartm:

not even in the same league and Fast is actually slow enough to prevent smooth H.264 playback

[19:32:07]

stuartm:

I take that back it's just the OSD which messes it up – hopefully the patch in Trac will fix that issue

[19:37:56]

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[20:24:57]

dekarl:

looking forward to an all gl rendering on the pi... (there are various – doh qt is linked to the other gl – issues across the distributions :(

[20:31:11]

dekarl:

isn't that signalling part of the handshake between display and gpu? back in the day I had to return an ATI GPU due to sending YCbCr but the display expecting RGB. That's something you notice way faster :)

[20:33:27]

dekarl:

ahh, EDID overide wasn't on my list of things that I wanted to do under windows.

[20:47:05]

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[20:52:18]

stuartm:

I don't know if it's specific to the RPi3 but the experimental GL driver for the Pi causes overvolt problems resulting in no image ... which is obviously a significant hurdle

[20:53:15]

stuartm:

this happens even with no USB peripherals connected, so it's just the GPU pulling more than the 2.5amps my USB provides

[21:02:41]

dekarl:

this one? where there is a non ES OpenGL frontend to the driver? http://anholt.livejournal.com/45862.html That's really cutting edge

[21:05:59]

stuartm:

no, it's something that's been around for a while. Apparently at least one person has had success with it using the official 2.5amp power supply, suggesting the one I have may just not be up to the job

[21:08:24]

stuartm:

manual for the charger hints that it only supplies a full 2.5amp to devices it detects are capable of handling it and it's therefore likely that it's not supplying enough current

[21:09:15]

stuartm:

which is annoying – especially since it was advertised as 3.0amp on Amazon so I was already disappointed when it arrived

[21:35:33]

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