| Thursday, November 5th, 2015, 00:07 UTC | ||
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| [10:14:36] | dekarl: | is there a nice way to say "we are not keen on paying the interest on VLC's technical debt"? http://lists.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-user . . . /382907.html |
| [10:15:32] | stuarta: | hah |
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| [13:22:38] | lautriv: | dekarl, something like "the internals of VLC are not in the scope of the mythtv project" ? |
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| [15:50:49] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: fyi, your jheizer-debian-jessie-64bit builder is reporting a read-only filesystem..... |
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| [15:57:07] | jheizer: | weird |
| [15:57:14] | jheizer: | getting I/O errors on sectors |
| [15:57:20] | jheizer: | against a virtual drive |
| [15:57:27] | jheizer: | that's not a good sign |
| [16:01:26] | stuarta: | no it's not |
| [16:02:21] | jheizer: | errors: Permanent errors have been detected in the following files: |
| [16:02:21] | jheizer: | /raid5/vms/Myth-BuildSlave-Jessie-master.img |
| [16:02:21] | jheizer: | /raid5/vms/mythtv-buildslave-jessie-home.img |
| [16:02:35] | jheizer: | 1 drive in my zfs array went unavailable |
| [16:02:40] | stuarta: | doh |
| [16:03:05] | jheizer: | I just replaced one too |
| [16:03:06] | jheizer: | stupid shit |
| [16:03:19] | jheizer: | but I don;t get why that would have caused it |
| [16:03:27] | jheizer: | unless the SATA controller is really the issue |
| [16:04:05] | gary_buhrmaster: | 1 drive in raidz1 should not have caused issues, but stranger things have happened. |
| [16:04:59] | jheizer: | yeah, makes no sense http://pastebin.com/rmmaCxzh |
| [16:05:46] | jheizer: | (all the raid5 names was just so mount points matched back in the way when I converted it to zfs, not that I don't know the difference) |
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| [16:07:46] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer I am not judging your naming convention..... [But you know that all pools are supposed to be named tanks :-)] |
| [16:09:13] | jheizer: | haha |
| [16:09:24] | jheizer: | bnhsbhvjfdbshjfvdvfd |
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| [16:09:30] | ** jheizer is frustrated ** | |
| [16:10:09] | jheizer: | I've got a kid ready to pop out any day and things breaking everywehere in tech/house/whatever |
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| [16:11:45] | gary_buhrmaster: | If it is any solace (and it probably should not be), it appears that my arm builder has gone sideways too. |
| [16:12:03] | gary_buhrmaster: | looks like I get to do my repair/upgrade sooner than I was planning. |
| [16:12:08] | jheizer: | throw it out the window |
| [16:12:12] | jheizer: | haha |
| [16:12:58] | jheizer: | missing drive isn't in /dev anymore |
| [16:13:25] | jheizer: | you seem to know zfs, thing I should reboot and see if drive comes back, copy the files from a snapshot back to current, and run a scrub? |
| [16:16:38] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: my zfs experience was on solaris. You may be able to recover the files by a forced scrub right now. Or it could make things worse. |
| [16:17:16] | jheizer: | yeah I was debating that, but since it was thankfully only those 2 files restoring isn;t a big deal |
| [16:18:48] | jheizer: | It did lead me to find my auto snapshots stopped when I rebuilt the machine. So at least one positive will come from this. replcating some stuff to the other array before I do anything just in case. |
| [16:19:50] | gary_buhrmaster: | zfs snapshots with send/recv are your friend(s). If you have the space. |
| [16:20:02] | jheizer: | yeah |
| [16:20:20] | jheizer: | thankfully my newer array is stupid big so I'm ok there |
| [16:20:30] | pvr4me: | Just noticed that an official Plex app was released for the new AppleTV. Apparently it is based on their iOS app and only took a few weeks to develop. Remarkably fast user interface, see video at… |
| [16:20:47] | pvr4me: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSNVlezYD24&feature=youtu.be |
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| [16:21:23] | gary_buhrmaster: | Is this ZOL or illumos or freebsd or real solaris? |
| [16:22:45] | jheizer: | ZOL |
| [16:26:04] | gary_buhrmaster: | Ah, the bastard child of LLNL. |
| [16:26:32] | jheizer: | I've been suing it for a few years |
| [16:26:38] | jheizer: | replaced a few drives over time |
| [16:26:44] | jheizer: | never had a problem till now... |
| [16:27:22] | jheizer: | I give it a work out though, myth, 2 builders, zoneminder, backups |
| [16:27:40] | jheizer: | well, ZM might be on the other array now |
| [16:29:54] | gary_buhrmaster: | I like ZFS. If I "really" care about my data, I have always wanted it on ZFS. |
| [16:30:22] | gary_buhrmaster: | But the SPL cannot patch over all the differences between Linux and Solaris. |
| [16:31:23] | jheizer: | I blame pictures |
| [16:31:28] | jheizer: | especially when kids came about |
| [16:31:59] | jheizer: | I'm a backup whore by nature but zfs + snapshots + send to second array + snapshots = a dream for me |
| [16:32:21] | jheizer: | (+ plus external drive + off site drive swapped every 6months) |
| [16:34:47] | gary_buhrmaster: | I will (of course) also point out that raidz1 is not sufficient (even with weekly scrubs to deal with latent bitrot). raidz2 or raidz3 is the minimum. |
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| [16:43:26] | jheizer: | hmm, motherboard is 4 years old |
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| [16:52:59] | jheizer: | I just need a 2 watt freebsd machine to seperate out the storage again that can take 10 drives |
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| [18:46:45] | taylorr: | pvr4me: nice to see a man (probably US citizen) show off his pirated movie collection on youtube :) |
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| [19:12:51] | dekarl: | isn't that what this other frontend is for? :P |
| [19:19:17] | jheizer: | ok, I should be all back up now. New drive comign tomorrow to replace the dead one. Only 2 seagate drives in that array bought at the same time and they died within 3 weeks of each other. |
| [19:33:57] | dekarl: | some things never change, had that with 8 barracudas 20 years ago |
| [19:34:38] | dekarl: | after the fifth died within weeks the reseller was willing to replace the whole batch |
| [19:34:40] | gary_buhrmaster: | And my arm builder is back up (looks like it was a bad kernel update for arm; did I mention I dislike them arm ecosystem? *sigh*) |
| [19:35:32] | jheizer: | I usually mis match drives for this reason. Most people are against that but yeah after have some back WDs ages ago it can't hurt. |
| [19:37:49] | gary_buhrmaster: | Every manufacture has had "special" series which fail early and often. And unfortunately which series end up being special is not known for a few years. |
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| [19:43:00] | lautriv: | jheizer, why don't you raid by a dedicated software like mdadm ? |
| [19:45:42] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: "Input/output error"? Does not sound good. |
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| [19:52:30] | jheizer: | Yeah physical drive error. Can't even keep the /dev entry. |
| [19:53:17] | jheizer: | and I would think ZFS falls under the same "dedicated software" level as mdadm |
| [20:01:11] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: Perhaps it is time to let the array rest until you can provide it some new spinning rust. As Audrey II would say, "Feed me!" |
| [20:02:38] | jheizer: | haha |
| [20:02:50] | jheizer: | I think once this new one tomorrow goes in, 4 or 5 are from within the last 2 years |
| [20:02:58] | jheizer: | 4 of 5 |
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| [20:10:51] | gary_buhrmaster: | To misquote Meat Loaf: "4 out of 5 ain't bad"? |
| [20:11:00] | jheizer (jheizer!~jheizer@2601:246:8202:11c:21e8:ea58:b20b:5754) has joined #mythtv | |
| [20:11:32] | jheizer: | and now my desktop decides to lock up... |
| [20:11:54] | jheizer: | What did I say ealier about everything deciding to break everywhere? Guess I jsut tempted fate a bit more. |
| [20:11:57] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: It is the "piling on" principal. |
| [20:12:30] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: Demand that your deity of choice throw a flag on the play. |
| [20:12:36] | jheizer: | Need this baby to keep cooking for a few more days |
| [20:15:23] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: It is my considered opinion that unless you have access to certain medications your needs and wants have little influence on that. |
| [20:15:36] | jheizer: | hahaha |
| [20:16:29] | jheizer: | That's extra funny as kid #1 was early so for this time around she was taking shots to help her get to full term this time. So I actually did have the medication. lol |
| [20:16:29] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/1 ** | |
| [20:38:51] | lautriv: | jheizer, if it were dedicated, you would get a mail about died drive and still have all data. i would ZFS not even tell a FS but rather drive-DB. |
| [20:39:07] | lautriv: | s/tell(call/ |
| [20:47:42] | jheizer: | no idea why this single drive failure results in 2 lost files. I will say it is pretty cool that it told me exactly what was lost. Even thought it sholuld not have happened. The other 4TB of data is fine at least. |
| [21:06:39] | stuarta: | evening |
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| [21:09:50] | stuarta: | jheizer: raid 0 != raid 1? |
| [21:10:05] | Jordack (Jordack!~Jordack@75-151-31-172-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has quit () | |
| [21:10:53] | jheizer: | raidz1 = raid5 more or less |
| [21:11:46] | stuarta: | odd that all the physical segments were killed by the same disk death |
| [21:24:47] | lautriv: | probably ZFS scrubbing on it all the time |
| [21:26:26] | stuarta: | what i mean is the raid5'yness should protect against the disk death |
| [21:27:10] | lautriv: | yep. |
| [21:28:13] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuarta: I suspect another one of the ZOL edge issues. ZFS on Solaris or Illumos would (I would think) be more likely to work well. |
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| [21:29:35] | jheizer: | My guess is it si related to the lock ups I was having a few weeks ago. Bad data left on disk. |
| [21:29:52] | jheizer: | I should have ran a scrub after I got it back up but I never did. |
| [21:30:03] | gary_buhrmaster: | Your weekly scrubs should have caught that (you do run weekly scrubs, I presume). |
| [21:32:10] | jheizer: | More like every few months. |
| [21:33:33] | stuarta: | i'm not up on ZFS so don't know what needs doing for care and feeding |
| [21:33:37] | jheizer: | since all the issues last month I've just been running on life support |
| [21:34:34] | jheizer: | scrub = forced check sum check |
| [21:34:46] | stuarta: | i can't talk. all my recordings are on single disks |
| [21:35:02] | stuarta: | at least the os is on raid1 |
| [21:35:15] | jheizer: | haha and my OS is on a single drive |
| [21:35:23] | stuarta: | os + db etc, just the recordings on single drives |
| [21:35:33] | jheizer: | no more sata ports |
| [21:35:53] | stuarta: | i have an hp microserver, so only 4 slots in the chassis |
| [21:36:01] | stuarta: | any more requires external hardware |
| [21:37:53] | stuarta: | tho i have seen people adding a 6 disk tray to the cdrom bay, to give 10 drives in the one chassis |
| [21:38:27] | jheizer: | at 10 drives I am maxed out of ports, expansion slots, and case space. |
| [21:38:34] | jheizer: | but it should be enough to last me a ecade |
| [21:38:37] | jheizer: | decade |
| [21:38:41] | stuarta: | you have 10 drives already? |
| [21:38:58] | jheizer: | haha long story |
| [21:39:06] | jheizer: | OS + 5 in a raid 5 |
| [21:39:15] | jheizer: | it kept filling up so I wanted to get more |
| [21:39:37] | jheizer: | but with ZFS you can't just add single drives to expand the array ike you can with a mdadm array |
| [21:39:46] | lautriv: | jheizer, maybe you got a physical impact when it started ( those weeks ago ) |
| [21:39:46] | jheizer: | so I bought 4 new ones to make a new array |
| [21:39:59] | gary_buhrmaster: | C&F for ZFS depends a lot on your actual systems. I (well the org) used to run huge raidz2 systems on thors, thumpers and DAS enterprise solaris systems. Weekly scrubs were part of the standard deployment settings. We ended up replacing a few disks a week just from the scrub detection (fail twice and you were out). |
| [21:40:11] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: You need block pointer rewrite. |
| [21:41:43] | jheizer: | at least in this spoiled internet age amazon can get me a drive next day for cheap |
| [21:42:08] | stuarta: | last one i bought was a 3Tb WD Red. nice size / price balance |
| [21:42:21] | jheizer: | yeah I also hate buying this being another 2TB |
| [21:42:29] | jheizer: | rather just shrink the array one drive |
| [21:42:42] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: (the mythical feature that I think Jeff was working on but never made it through Sun processes before Oracle happened). |
| [21:42:54] | jheizer: | if I knew I'd have the time I would move everything to the other array and do it, but again baby = need working tv for wife |
| [21:43:26] | gary_buhrmaster: | jheizer: You can (one by one) replace the 2TB drives with 4TB ones, and when you replace the last you magically get the entire additional space. |
| [21:43:50] | jheizer: | gary_buhrmaster, trying to read about it quickly not seeing a summary, just asking if it is a dead feature or not |
| [21:44:27] | gary_buhrmaster: | block pointer rewrite never happened, there were edge cases that were being thought through, and Oracle never cared to invest the development time on |
| [21:45:29] | gary_buhrmaster: | The idea was that bpr was not especially useful in an enterprise environment (where you just buy another disk array), and Oracle had no interest in supporting "the community" (there is no profit there for Larry to buy a bigger boat). |
| [21:45:44] | jheizer: | haha |
| [21:50:31] | dekarl: | https://blogs.oracle.com/ahl/entry/expand_o_matic_raid_z sounds like upgrading raidz2 to raidz3 (or similar) may be of interest for an enterprise, but none stepped up, yet ;) |
| [21:55:14] | jheizer: | wow, workable idea in 2008 |
| [21:55:34] | gary_buhrmaster: | bpr had other uses (defrag for one), but, again, for enterprises, a good admin (unfortunately good zfs admins are rare these days) can mitigate the impacts with other maintainence. |
| [21:56:40] | stuarta: | i need a jbod tray |
| [21:57:32] | jheizer: | I just started a scrub on our 15k sas array for work |
| [21:57:44] | jheizer: | Dad is boss and sitting in the same room |
| [21:58:00] | jheizer: | In about 5 minutes he is going to IM me asking why all the drives are screaming. |
| [21:58:09] | stuarta: | hah |
| [21:59:30] | jheizer: | The positive is he hates those things so much our next upgrade it'll be all SSD |
| [21:59:48] | stuarta: | there's now a 16Tb SSD available ;-) |
| [22:00:07] | stuarta: | no doubt it costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
| [22:00:14] | jheizer: | pss, we don't even need an array if we get that |
| [22:00:21] | lautriv: | probably for the price one would buy a car. |
| [22:00:53] | jheizer: | really |
| [22:01:10] | jheizer: | this is just 3.25TB SAS, 3 cache/ZIL drives |
| [22:01:23] | gary_buhrmaster: | all SSD solves a lot of problems. Intel's new technologies (3D Xpoint) "promises" large and cheap. I am not sure there idea of large and cheap matches mine. |
| [22:01:46] | jheizer: | crazy that storage finally easily outpaces 1gbit lan |
| [22:01:50] | stuarta: | hah, list price is expected to be between $5,000 and $7,000 each |
| [22:02:08] | jheizer: | not as bad as I expected |
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| [22:09:44] | gary_buhrmaster: | *sigh* at least the unit tests reliably fail on arm (well the latest 2 out of 2). Now I have to figure out why (probably a timing/race issue). I'll look at it more carefully this weekend. |
| [22:11:46] | jheizer: | By chance, have any of you used nginx-rtmp-module before? I tried playing with it last night to see if I could use it as the on demand dash encoder on top of myth |
| [22:12:02] | stuarta: | no, just nginx itself |
| [22:12:06] | jheizer: | and tie it into mobile myth |
| [22:12:06] | gary_buhrmaster: | That is (probably) what I get for doing the upgrade in steps with some of the interim points slower than even the normal slow. |
| [22:13:09] | stuarta: | on the bright side, i can get either a 4 or 8 drive eSata enclosure to work with my microserver if i need expansion |
| [22:13:36] | jheizer: | Nice. Good price on it? |
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| [22:15:42] | stuarta: | £128 / £213 so okay |
| [22:16:08] | jheizer: | yeah not too bad |
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| [22:20:18] | gary_buhrmaster: | There are a couple of vendors (Sans Digital comes to mind) which have reasonably cheap esata enclosures. |
| [22:21:25] | gary_buhrmaster: | In the case of Sans Digital I think a few (one/two/three?) generations ago their port multiplex chips were problematic, but I never bothered to follow it to know if their choice of chip was poor, or it was a driver issue. |
| [22:24:43] | gary_buhrmaster: | Less than a $100 (US) on newegg for one of their 4 bay jbods (which should be less than 70 pounds UK if life was fair). |
| [22:25:03] | stuarta: | normally they just change $ to £ |
| [22:26:14] | gary_buhrmaster: | I know, that was why I said if life was fair. I guess at least for the UK we now know what step 2 is (where step 3 is "Profit!"). |
| [22:26:37] | stuarta: | step 1 being "underpants!" |
| [22:28:35] | dekarl: | jheizer, as long as he's not shouting at them ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4 |
| [22:30:25] | jheizer: | BHWahahahaha |
| [22:31:06] | jheizer: | he told me after "I wish it was older. I'd spend money on replacing it." |
| [22:35:47] | gary_buhrmaster: | Did you offer to use some rustoleum primer on it to give it the grey look ("Those drives are looking old...."). |
| [22:37:17] | stuarta: | dunno why i'm looking, have no budget |
| [22:37:30] | jheizer: | I'll say "these are 3.5 years old and not a single one has failed us yet." With my luck we'll lose 3 over night. |
| [22:37:52] | stuarta: | you are on a roll with hdd deaths ;-P |
| [22:39:18] | jheizer: | 3 in the last 4 months I think |
| [22:39:30] | stuarta: | do some smart tests, prove they are dying |
| [22:39:50] | stuarta: | or invoke the old "out of warranty" replace clause |
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| [22:40:09] | jheizer: | haha software company of 3 developers |
| [22:40:18] | jheizer: | not that "formal" |
| [22:40:52] | jheizer: | smart doesn't work on these via this sas controller under freebsd either |
| [22:41:02] | stuarta: | :( |
| [22:41:44] | gary_buhrmaster: | You tempted fate. You will need to do a Bishop apology (NCIS reference) to save the drives. |
| [22:41:59] | jheizer: | yeah, just tried since it has been upgraded since then. |
| [22:42:19] | jheizer: | pss, I am 175 miles away from these drives. All I'll do is point at laugh. |
| [22:42:46] | stuarta: | "cloud"?? |
| [22:43:07] | jheizer: | Parent's basement |
| [22:53:48] | jheizer: | I jsut realized the SSDs are now cheaper than the SAS drives we bought |
| [22:53:52] | jheizer: | man thay've come down |
| [22:53:59] | stuarta: | yeah they have |
| [22:54:16] | jheizer: | 8x Intel 730 Series 2.5" 480GB = $1300USD |
| [22:54:25] | stuarta: | not bad |
| [22:54:27] | jheizer: | ohhhh |
| [22:54:27] | jheizer: | no |
| [22:54:32] | jheizer: | they limited me to 5 |
| [22:54:46] | stuarta: | so buy 4, then buy 4 |
| [22:55:08] | stuarta: | or 5, then 3 so as not to seem like a repeat |
| [22:55:31] | jheizer: | I for the 450GB SAS drives for a steal before at $230 |
| [22:55:57] | jheizer: | aboce intel 730 = $259, still |
| [22:56:00] | jheizer: | hells yeah |
| [23:03:14] | gary_buhrmaster: | Of course, the 730 is the mid-range model. For the enterprise, you would typically look towards the DC targeted S35xx's for improved write endurance. But either are miles ahead of your SAS drives. |
| [23:05:22] | jheizer: | Yeah. I was scrolling back and forth trying to decide. 2x the price is hard. |
| [23:06:06] | stuarta: | look at it another way, cheaper now, in 2yrs are you in a better position to upgrade? |
| [23:06:36] | jheizer: | 2 years we'll buy your 16TB drive |
| [23:06:38] | jheizer: | haha |
| [23:06:42] | stuarta: | he |
| [23:06:44] | stuarta: | heh |
| [23:07:54] | jheizer: | honestly with the SSD cache drives I don't hate the 15ks. Our DBs are on 100% SSD so that helps. |
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