Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, September 22nd, 2015, 00:15 UTC

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[07:50:03]

Roklobsta:

ooer i hear jya is updating ffpmeg.

[08:14:01]

stuarta:

he was having a bash at it yes

[08:14:34]

Roklobsta:

ain't it just 'git pull' and 'make'?

[08:14:41]

stuarta:

sadly no

[08:14:49]

Roklobsta:

massive api changes?

[08:14:54]

stuarta:

we have our own modified copy of ffmpeg

[08:15:23]

stuarta:

so it's unroll our patches, update, roll forward our patches, then see if any api is broken and move to the new supported ont

[08:15:30]

stuarta:

it's the last part that's a pain in the arse

[08:15:40]

stuarta:

s/ont/one

[08:15:46]

Roklobsta:

sounds like a grind. just what someone wants to do with their free time...

[08:16:02]

stuarta:

it would be easier if we did it more often

[08:16:26]

stuarta:

for reference, our previous sync was against 2.3.1, 2.8 is now current

[08:19:56]

Roklobsta:

yep lotsa h.265 updates in that no doubt

[08:20:41]

Roklobsta:

i wonder just how many more interations of compression standards are left before there are no returns.

[08:21:45]

stuarta:

there will always be a new one

[08:22:23]

Roklobsta:

can you somehow halve the bitrate of h.265 and still have it look as good?

[08:22:24]

stuarta:

sadly the mentality is "the punter won't notice a decrease in quality, and we can ram another 5 shitty channel in the same space = $$$"

[08:22:52]

Roklobsta:

the spare dvb channels here have super lores ad channels.

[08:23:11]

stuarta:

normally shopping channels around here

[08:23:17]

Roklobsta:

yeah

[08:23:27]

** stuarta hates shopping channels with a passion **

[08:23:39]

Roklobsta:

still no h.264 in .au AFAIK

[08:23:50]

Roklobsta:

on DVBT

[08:24:09]

Roklobsta:

some experiments with 3DTV which have disappeared.

[08:25:16]

stuarta:

h264 is a big investment, as all the receivers need changing. i doubt there's sufficient market in .au to make it commercially viable to move quickly

[08:25:48]

stuarta:

they'll probably wait until the chipsets are commodity and it's essentially no cost in a new receiver

[08:25:50]

Roklobsta:

most stb's have supported it for a long time and no doubt all tv's have it

[08:25:57]

stuarta:

hmmm true

[08:26:02]

stuarta:

slack arses

[08:26:30]

Roklobsta:

then move to dvb-t2?

[08:26:43]

stuarta:

they normally do that at the same time as h264

[08:26:54]

Roklobsta:

i think we're stuck with dvb for a long time, coz we are early adopters

[08:27:02]

stuarta:

hardly

[08:27:03]

Roklobsta:

dvbt i mean

[08:27:15]

Roklobsta:

DVBT cam on here in ~2001 AFAIR

[08:27:37]

Roklobsta:

all analogue is gone

[08:28:44]

stuarta:

still slowly switching off here

[08:29:39]

Roklobsta:

lots of channel shuffling last year to free up 700MHz for LTE

[08:29:58]

stuarta:

is that the old VHF band?

[08:30:12]

** stuarta is showing his age **

[08:30:18]

Roklobsta:

UHF

[08:30:25]

stuarta:

growing up, all my .au tv was on VHF channels ;-)

[08:30:36]

Roklobsta:

Channel 2 and SBS28 were VHF

[08:30:46]

Roklobsta:

and ch7/9/10

[08:30:52]

stuarta:

in syd at least, sbs was one of the first on UHF

[08:30:58]

stuarta:

~ch28

[08:31:12]

Roklobsta:

maybe 28 is UHF and the original '0' it was on was VHF

[08:31:28]

stuarta:

yeah 0–10 were VHF

[08:32:01]

Roklobsta:

out here in the boonies there are a lot of houses with 10m masts for old VHF TV reception.

[08:32:19]

Roklobsta:

the bad old days

[08:32:22]

stuarta:

i remember them well

[08:32:42]

stuarta:

my uncle had one, plus a booster just to get reception on about 2/3 channels

[08:32:57]

Roklobsta:

no broadcast between 10pm and 7am.... no cartoons, bob santamaria on sunday mornings.

[08:33:23]

Roklobsta:

test patterns....

[08:33:27]

stuarta:

that'll be why we were so good at sport. nothing on tv, get out of the house

[08:33:43]

Roklobsta:

now the kids are glued to mythtv.

[08:35:58]

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[08:36:20]

stuarta:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T2#System_d . . . s_with_DVB-T

[08:36:57]

stuarta:

makes interesting reading. basically 45–67% bandwidth reduction for the same profile vs dvb-t

[08:37:16]

stuarta:

me--

[08:37:37]

stuarta:

that should be, increase in available bandwidth....

[08:37:45]

stuarta:

just read it, explains it better than me

[09:07:09]

Roklobsta:

moar bitz!

[09:07:18]

stuarta:

basically :-p

[09:07:35]

stuarta:

= more channels = more $$$

[09:07:47]

Roklobsta:

well broadcast tv might be dead in 10 years

[09:08:03]

stuarta:

we hope

[09:51:25]

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[10:10:03]

** stuartm doesn't **

[10:11:19]

stuartm:

iptv/streaming == massive market fragmentation, inconsistent implementation, DRM, increased costs (multiple subscriptions required for access to the same content) etc

[10:12:14]

stuartm:

and a waste of bandwidth that could be used for better purposes

[10:14:16]

clever:

in my ISP's implementation, it uses multicast to reduce bandwidth usage massively

[10:14:39]

clever:

and its just plain mpegts wrapped in rtp, and blasted over multicast

[10:15:10]

clever:

mythtv already has support for everything but the decryption, so its basicaly useless for perfect capture, i'm forced to use the analog hole

[10:15:58]

** lautriv__ dislikes the idea of watching tv via web at all. **

[10:16:25]

clever:

its not really over the web with my ISP, its streamed in over a special vlan on the modem, and only 'authorized hardware' can play it

[10:19:03]

lautriv__:

still web, still wasting bandwith.

[10:19:26]

clever:

the ISP adds an extra 20mbit of bandwidth to the real cap, beyond what you pay for

[10:19:52]

clever:

so you can still get what your paying for, even with the iptv eating a chunk of it

[10:20:49]

clever:

and because of the multicast, its only having to stream a single copy of every channel

[10:21:01]

lautriv__:

clever, that is your site but all that crap goes over official lines with may carry useful data instead.

[10:21:38]

clever:

yeah, the isp will need to provision enough fiber hardware to handle the total number of unique channels a single street may watch

[10:22:36]

clever:

and multiply that as they go farther up the tree

[10:23:16]

stuarta:

woot. my dvb-t2 stick just arrived

[10:23:39]

clever:

:S, the math doesnt seem that good, i get 180mbit download, and the fiber SPF+ modules ive seen online tent to top out at 10gig

[10:23:46]

clever:

so a single module and fiber can onlyhandle ~55 customers

[10:24:06]

clever:

assuming they plan for 100% usage of every customer

[10:24:12]

stuarta:

oversubscribing is the standard practice

[10:24:21]

clever:

yeah

[10:24:22]

stuarta:

they'll QOS it so the TV will work properly

[10:24:34]

stuarta:

and rate limit interweb traffic to make it all work

[10:24:37]

clever:

yeah, they have VLANS extending right past the modem and into the router

[10:24:49]

clever:

so they can easily QoS on the main network between homes

[10:25:06]

stuarta:

end users are quite bursty in the traffic patterns (torrenting excluded) so it's easy to put more consumers on link than the uplink

[10:25:34]

stuarta:

basically there is no way 100% of the end users will be maxing the BW at any one moment

[10:25:48]

Roklobsta:

if noone is watching tv though the tv vlan will have no data on it. doesn't multicast toggle subscriptions to multicasts on the router

[10:26:11]

stuarta:

Roklobsta: yes, if there are no subscribers, no multicast traffic will flow

[10:26:26]

clever:

stuarta: not so with my gigabit switch, it lacks igmp snooping

[10:26:26]

stuarta:

it's actually a very nice protocol design

[10:26:37]

clever:

so every time i turn on the cable box, it starts to DoS the entire house

[10:26:40]

clever:

and even jams the wifi

[10:26:47]

** stuarta faceplams **

[10:26:51]

clever:

yeah

[10:26:53]

stuarta:

get a new switch

[10:27:01]

clever:

i wired the tv directly into the router

[10:27:02]

** stuarta goes for a cuppa **

[10:27:09]

clever:

so the router never sends multicast packets to the switch

[10:27:54]

clever:

it jams the wifi so hard, that an ipad cant even see the beacon packets

[10:28:12]

clever:

and it will often assume the key is wrong (wep has no way to tell the difference)

[11:36:52]

** stuarta tries to work out why dvb tuning in mythtv requires the sdt.... **

[11:37:16]

stuarta:

i mean, we should in theory only need the PAT

[11:37:21]

stuarta:

which gives us the PMT

[11:37:38]

stuarta:

ie. PAT -> PMT -> stream pids

[11:38:39]

clever:

https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Fibreop an example of a PID setup that i know mythtv accepted a few years ago

[11:38:42]

clever:

it obviously failed at the decryption level

[11:39:21]

clever:

it has the expected PAT -> PMT -> stream pids

[11:39:26]

stuarta:

still no SDT requirement there

[11:39:39]

clever:

yeah

[11:39:53]

stuarta:

i'm curious because i have some channels that record fine on master, but not 0.27

[11:40:00]

stuarta:

and it's bugging me why

[11:40:41]

stuarta:

was looking last night and it gets TLMs in livetv which indicates it's waiting for SDT, but i can't see why we require it. For scanning yes it's needed, for recording i can't see why

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stuarta:

where the heck does a dependency on libvpx1 come from in debian?

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[18:06:44]

dekarl:

stuarta, https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/commit/b1 . . . b342201c04d6 but I read that the VP8 decoder in ffmpeg is better nowadays, so we could remove it again.

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gigem:

stuarta: I'd be concerned about it coming from linking to the system ffmpeg.

[19:29:36]

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[19:40:31]

** stuarta sighs **

[19:41:55]

stuarta:

oh the torture of having a new dvb-t2 stick, and the last bit of cabling still in the post....

[19:43:54]

lautriv:

stuarta, better than having a tv-box and all existing sources are crap ;)

[19:44:03]

stuarta:

hah

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[19:47:24]

lautriv:

actually wondering how they even got android working on such shitbox :(

[19:48:03]

stuarta:

oh good, we do store the delivery system for the multiplex in the database.

[19:48:20]

stuarta:

and the info was there in 0.27 too, which will make backporting easier

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