| Thursday, April 16th, 2015, 00:39 UTC | ||
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| [06:55:55] | dekarl: | Looks like yesterdays shot in the dark has hit :) utopic and vivid have already finished, trusty is just packaging the armhf stuff up. https://launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/+archive/ubu . . . uild/7332897 |
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| [14:07:59] | tgm4883: | dekarl: awesome |
| [14:08:22] | tgm4883: | now I just need to check the 27.4 packages and see if they have the systemd unit files |
| [14:09:43] | tgm4883: | hmm, no it does not :/ |
| [14:18:49] | tgm4883: | wait, it's installed. It gets installed in a different place |
| [14:23:43] | sphery: | stichnot: re: #11713 , can we make the name a little more user-friendly / less mythtv-jargon. So, for example, rather than MARK_UTIL_PREROLL , use MARK_UTIL_PROGSTART or MARK_UTIL_SCHEDSTART or MARK_UTIL_BEGIN or something to indicate it's the time the show was scheduled to start (since the preroll is the time before that point, anyway). Especially if 3rd-party developers are going to have access to it via the services API, I'd rather use ... |
| [14:23:43] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11713 ** | |
| [14:23:48] | sphery: | ... "real" terms, instead of internal jargon. :) |
| [14:24:01] | sphery: | other than that, I love the idea and approach you're using |
| [14:33:23] | stichnot: | sphery: Good idea, thanks. Looks like I fell victim to one of the two hardest things in software engineering (naming, caching, and off-by-one errors). |
| [14:33:53] | stichnot: | sphery: do you happen to know where services API gets access to names for these marks? |
| [14:35:29] | stichnot: | and btw, I know you have plans for in-playback UI management of different mark types, so I tried to make sure these "utility marks" won't get in the way. |
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| [15:17:49] | dekarl: | tgm4883: and I see reports that there are "regular Ubuntu 14.04 images" for Raspberry Pi 2 available. Combined together we are pretty close to a preview image of "Mythbuntu Backend on Pi 2" out of the box :) (e.g. HDHR+Raspberry with a disk+MythTV Backend+Kodi Frontend) |
| [15:21:29] | dekarl: | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi#Ubuntu_14.04_LTS google is being nice and presents a video result for "ubuntu raspberry pi", too. www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtlyzmFs0bM "This is a quick look at Ubuntu 14.04 running on a Raspberry Pi 2. I was able to install MythTV backend on ..." |
| [15:21:41] | tgm4883: | dekarl: yea there are RPI2 Ubuntu 14.04 images |
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| [15:22:05] | tgm4883: | dekarl: frontend doesn't work though :( |
| [15:23:37] | tgm4883: | dekarl: do you happen to know whats needed for frontend support? |
| [15:23:59] | tgm4883: | it could make a pretty decent reference platform |
| [15:24:11] | dekarl: | tgm4883: what does "not work" mean? |
| [15:24:58] | dekarl: | Is it an issue with the Painter / OpenGL? Or with Playback (no support for hardware decode on the VPU)? Or an issue with the HDMI-CEC controls? |
| [15:26:30] | tgm4883: | dekarl: my understanding is video playback is bad. I honestly haven't tried it though |
| [15:26:38] | tgm4883: | dekarl: I believe other devs might know more |
| [15:27:50] | dekarl: | tgm4883: we don not support the hardware video decoder and the Raspberry Pi is not fit for software decode of some formats. (e.g. VC-1 from Bluray) |
| [15:29:34] | tgm4883: | dekarl: so either someone needs to write support for it or use kodi? |
| [15:31:53] | tgm4883: | I've got a pi2 here, so I can do some testing |
| [15:33:13] | jheizer: | Reminds me I need to buy one. My RP1 is croaking. |
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| [15:38:58] | dekarl: | tgm4883: I think jya can explain better what we need for accelerated playback. https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?t=173&p=689 has a patch for decoding but it lacks proper rendering or so. I don't fully understand what is missing. Do we need something similar to the VideoOutputOpenGLVAAPI renderer? |
| [15:43:12] | ** tgm4883 shrugs ** | |
| [15:44:32] | tgm4883: | installing 14.04 on the pi2 now, we'll see what happens when I get to install mythbuntu-desktop |
| [15:45:19] | tgm4883: | I know we look at the CPU stats and say blah because there are like 2 ARM users, but does mythfrontend work on any ARM board? |
| [15:50:18] | dekarl: | it should work on every ARM board with software decoding. Playing SD MPEG-2 from DVB-T might be possible on smaller CPUs, too |
| [15:50:53] | tgm4883: | ok, but is there fast enough arm boards to support usable software decoding? |
| [15:52:08] | dekarl: | define "usable software decoding". with quad 1.4 GHz you can throw one core at the video decoder. that is likely enough for SD MPEG-2 with low bitrate |
| [15:53:05] | sphery: | stichnot: Yeah, the changes you're making will work great and won't get in the way. I just plan to make more of the marks available during playback or visible during editing. |
| [15:53:59] | tgm4883: | dekarl: good point. I would have to suggest that we should consider whatever most broadcast content is in the minimum to be considered usable |
| [15:54:00] | dekarl: | but I doubt its going to be fun to use until we optimize our rendering code, like xbmc did over many revisions |
| [15:54:25] | tgm4883: | so if all shows are now 1080p, then we should consider that the goal |
| [15:55:18] | tgm4883: | dekarl: personally, I'd prefer it if we could get a snappy image rather than just a pi image working |
| [15:55:33] | tgm4883: | although I don't know how well that would work for graphical stuff |
| [15:56:25] | dekarl: | tgm4883: isn't snappy the cloud server image? What would you do with a MythTV backend hosted on e.g. AWS? |
| [15:56:52] | tgm4883: | dekarl: no, it's the "internet of things" image, which is a really bad description |
| [15:57:01] | sphery: | stichnot: services api currently has different methods for different mark types--so GetRecordedCutList and GetRecordedCommBreak. I like this approach since it's not exposing the names of our internal defines, but I'm thinking if we have defines that work well for even the services api, then even if we make a generic method and/or name services methods based on the defines, we'll be ok :) |
| [15:57:03] | tgm4883: | dekarl: you can run it on regular hardware |
| [15:57:36] | sphery: | stichnot: #12090 put in the current support for marks , but more will be coming (see, also #11491 for a few of the others) |
| [15:57:36] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12090 ** | |
| [15:57:36] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11491 ** | |
| [15:57:41] | stichnot: | sphery: Yeah, I was just looking at recent tickets and reaching the same conclusion about where names come from |
| [15:57:54] | tgm4883: | dekarl: basically, it makes rolling back a bit easier |
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| [15:58:44] | dekarl: | tgm4883: oh rolling back. Makes me wonder if someone runs mythbackend on ZFS on freenas on a hp microserver. |
| [15:58:50] | sphery: | stichnot: anyway, the naming is always the hard part--when you're deep in the code, you're thinking like the code and its names, so just wanted to add an "untouched by recently reading the code" perspective on the name :) |
| [15:58:53] | tgm4883: | dekarl: it's a bit of a tough description since I haven't used it much, but from what I've read it's exactly what we would want from an appliance |
| [15:59:46] | tgm4883: | dekarl: so it partitions the drive so when you do upgrades you still keep a good partition |
| [15:59:48] | sphery: | not to mention, there's preroll and start early (which are actually different) and so it could actually get confusing if we called it preroll :) |
| [15:59:50] | dekarl: | tgm4883: what do you expect to gain from snappy? Its still one image per device IIUIC |
| [16:00:30] | tgm4883: | dekarl: yes it's one image per device, but upgrading the whole system becomes a bit easier because rolling back becomes a bit easier |
| [16:00:38] | tgm4883: | dekarl: we'd still have mysql issues though |
| [16:01:09] | dekarl: | tgm4883: what issues? |
| [16:01:29] | tgm4883: | dekarl: well a backup and restore of mysql would still be needed if rolling back |
| [16:04:06] | stichnot: | sphery: hmm, I didn't think about "start early" and whether it should have an effect on the MARK_UTIL_PROGSTART (or whatever) |
| [16:05:35] | dekarl: | tgm4883: now I get you, yes integrating the database restore would be nice. I thought that was wrt performance on arm systems. Was about to hint that board with quad core, real SATA and 2GB of memory should be able to handle a small backends database load. |
| [16:20:31] | tgm4883: | dekarl: correct. I'm looking at it from the appliance view, being able to update, ensure things are working, and roll back if necessary |
| [16:20:42] | tgm4883: | fitting it all in a small box with a pi 2 would be nice too |
| [16:21:49] | dekarl: | I think we need central backend services to reach any state that is appliance like for a backend |
| [16:22:02] | dekarl: | there is just to many stuff to map |
| [16:22:23] | tgm4883: | central backend services, or modular backend services? |
| [16:22:33] | tgm4883: | not that those are mutually exclusive |
| [16:25:03] | sphery: | stichnot: You can put a mark at the scheduled (listings) program start, and if you like, put one at the rule start early time, too, but I'm not sure how useful the start early mark would be since generally people go a bit beyond where they expect the beginning for the start early. |
| [16:25:59] | sphery: | they can always go to the listings start time and skip/jump/arbitrary skip back |
| [16:27:22] | stichnot: | sphery: I just did a test manual recording with 60-second preroll and 2-minute start-early, and playback started at the 3-minute mark. I think this is the right thing. |
| [16:27:52] | stichnot: | And I can add all the marks I want, but the challenge is making a sensible UI |
| [16:27:57] | tgm4883: | dekarl: a web backend setup would make this easier as well |
| [16:28:43] | tgm4883: | out of curiosity, if you have a slave backend that is only doing comm flagging, and it goes away, what happens to the comm flag? |
| [16:41:04] | dekarl: | meh, FireTV misses the auto zoom to remove black frames of 1,87:1 trailers in a 4:3 video on a 16:9 (or 16:10) display. Or someone to properly tag/encode the videos in the first place. MythTV 1 – FireTV 0 |
| [16:41:42] | dekarl: | sadly VLC on the Stick see our UPNP server, but thats about it |
| [16:46:28] | stichnot: | tgm4883: If the commflagging slave backend goes away mid-commflag, I think the commflag job is marked as errored and is not restarted. If it goes away otherwise, then commflag jobs stay in the queue until another backend/jobqueue grabs it. |
| [16:46:52] | tgm4883: | interesting |
| [16:47:02] | stichnot: | btw, a machine doing only jobs and not recording, should be running mythjobqueue rather than mythbackend |
| [16:47:28] | tgm4883: | stichnot: does that work now? That wasn't an option in the past (to my knowledge) |
| [16:47:32] | dekarl: | tgm4883: got to get back to work on central services... the performance of this Fire thing is not so hard to beat... e.g. guest cast of tv series appears to only have season level... and its missing heaps of actor images... lets bring that to SchedulesDirect/Atlas/MythTV :) |
| [16:48:34] | stichnot: | tgm4883: I used to use mythjobqueue years ago, though I'm not 100% sure of its status today |
| [16:49:28] | stichnot: | these days I prefer to have a powerful centralized server |
| [16:50:55] | tgm4883: | ideally what I'd like to see (and this is coming from someone with zero code commits to mythtv), is being able to create a mythtv "web". taking some low powered, low cost devices and having them be single function mythtv devices |
| [16:51:04] | tgm4883: | be it backend, frontend, job queue, etc |
| [16:52:02] | tgm4883: | I think we're getting to (or have gotten to) the tipping point for low cost high performance arm hardware |
| [16:54:39] | stichnot: | The main computing challenge I see is real-time commflagging of HD-PVR programs |
| [16:55:41] | stichnot: | My ION-1 machines are perfectly capable for everything else. I wonder if ARM performance has caught up to that level yet |
| [16:56:03] | tgm4883: | stichnot: yes, which is why I asked about what happens when the device running the commflagging disappears. Commflagging is something that can be done on higher end desktops that get shut down when not in us |
| [16:56:12] | tgm4883: | something that just happens in the background |
| [16:56:25] | tgm4883: | depending on your use case, it wouldn't even have to be in real time |
| [16:56:48] | tgm4883: | if you record enough shows, it becomes difficult watch all of it as it airs |
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| [16:58:42] | stichnot: | The jobqueue would need some enhancements like user prioritization, load balancing based on CPU and I/O estimates, auto retry option on failure, maybe more |
| [16:59:45] | jheizer: | I sue to run mythjobqueue on a VM on my desktop. Worked well, but eventually upgraded my backend as it was one less machine to maintain and upgrade. |
| [17:07:36] | dekarl: | Looks like small Atom boards have similar problems as the small ARM boards... http://www.elinux.org/Minnowboard:MinnowMax HDMI-CEC not properly wired up... At least it comes with VAAPI style VPU ;) |
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| [18:28:34] | paul-h: | Can someone verify playing radio stations that download a playlist like the Radionomy ones are currently broken in master? |
| [18:31:42] | stuartm: | paul-h: confirmed, a BBC stream works, but Radionomy doesn't |
| [18:33:39] | paul-h: | Wonder if it's the switch to QT5? |
| [18:34:47] | paul-h: | Seems to be those that use the download manager to get the playlist |
| [18:36:31] | paul-h: | I stopped using the Radionomy ones when they started inserting adverts every 15 minutes so not sure how long it's been broken |
| [18:37:59] | paul-h: | They work in Xine so it us not the radio stations |
| [18:51:32] | stuartm: | probably the QT5 switch, but there were some download manager patches as well |
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| [18:53:38] | stuartm: | committed around mid-feb, patches from Gary Buhrmaster, merged by gigem |
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| [18:57:25] | gary_buhrmaster: | Yep, it could all be my fault (although my recollection is that the patches that were commited only added capability and fixed a specific bug). There are some additional patches not yet reviewed to fix some other potential bugs (but they were never apparent with Qt4). |
| [18:57:58] | paul-h: | seems the download completes OK but there is something wrong with the events |
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| [19:02:13] | stuartm: | gary_buhrmaster: wasn't implying it was your fault :) |
| [19:03:29] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: No offense (was) taken. I am just admitting that I did not test all conceivable cases (and especially radio stations). |
| [19:05:50] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: I suppose that means that in my copious free time I should figure out how to add a unit test for something (anything) in the code. I'll add it to the TODO list. |
| [19:07:31] | paul-h: | Unfortunately there is a lot of different permutations to take into account which would make it hard to test :( |
| [19:08:21] | stuartm: | I've not produced any unit tests yet, most of the time I struggle to think of something that can easily be tested and without adding tests just for the sake of testing |
| [19:09:18] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: I am waiting to see if my TODO list will exceed the ability for a 64 bit integer to count it. |
| [19:09:42] | stuartm: | i.e. testing that 1 + 1 = 2 is easily done, but largely pointless since it's highly unlikely that anyone modifying that code would change that basic behaviour |
| [19:10:44] | gary_buhrmaster: | re: unit tests. Yeah, same problem. What we "really" need is test systems spread across the globe where one can run extensive tests of records, content, playback. |
| [19:11:20] | gary_buhrmaster: | Pretty sure that is so far into fantasy that even Disney could not sell tickets to that movie. |
| [19:11:56] | stuartm: | web-server could use some unit tests, most of which would involve ensuring that it responds correctly per the RFCs to various requests, but then you're quickly getting outside the realms of basic unit testing and into something better suited as a standalone conformance test suite |
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| [19:13:29] | stuartm: | besides which, when testing adherence to a standard, it's best if the tests are written by someone other than the dev who wrote the implementation since they are liable to build their own mis-interpretations/readings of the standard into the tests |
| [19:13:57] | stuartm: | writing tests to fit the actual behaviour instead of the correct behaviour |
| [19:15:21] | gary_buhrmaster: | Yep. There are a number of IETF RFCs that (initially) had that issue (some BGP ones come to mind, although I may be mis-remembering). |
| [19:17:30] | gary_buhrmaster: | Of course, most of the problems go back to lack of following RFC 1122 (part of which is known as Postel's law: "Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept") |
| [19:19:47] | stuartm: | which has always irked me, leads to some very bad, buggy and insecure implementations |
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| [19:24:40] | stuartm: | indeed I wonder how prevalent SQL injection and similar issues would be had so many people not taken Postel's law out of context |
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| [19:49:47] | paul-h: | stuartm, gary_buhrmaster: it turns out to be a QT5 problem with QUrl::toLocalFile() returning an empty string for urls |
| [19:51:29] | paul-h: | Seems if you construct a url like QUrl url(/path_to_file/filename) then QUrl::toLocalFile() fails for some reason |
| [19:53:08] | paul-h: | Easy fix is to use QUrl url("file:/" + /path_to_file/filename) to let QUrl know it's a local file |
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| [19:57:53] | gary_buhrmaster: | paul-h: Apparently, according to this ( http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.qt.devel/1728 ) some variants (relative?) were broken in Qt 4.8, various fixes/workarounds applied, and probably changed for final in Qt5. |
| [19:59:09] | gary_buhrmaster: | paul-h: I am sure there is other history, if one wants to search for it. One can argue until the yaks come home about what *should* happen, but reality is what matters. |
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| [20:01:28] | paul-h: | strange no one noticed before if it was indeed broken in Qt4.8 |
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| [20:02:49] | gary_buhrmaster: | paul-h: It was reverted in 4.8.1, but the bug tracker states it will be do "the right thing" in Qt5 (and "right" means empty string). |
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| [20:03:46] | gary_buhrmaster: | paul-h: So there are no doubt distros you can find brokenness, but I am guessing few. |
| [20:04:17] | paul-h: | Ah that explains it – you've obviously got more patience that me to look this stuff up :) |
| [20:06:14] | paul-h: | I have a really simple one line fix that is working fine in this case but who knows what other related bugs we may find |
| [20:07:38] | gary_buhrmaster: | paul-h: No patience here (and I can get sworn testimony to that). But I felt (potentially) a little responsible. So perseverance, sure. |
| [20:09:06] | gary_buhrmaster: | paul-h: I suspect "we" (and when I say "we", I mostly mean you and the rest of the devs) are going to be finding and fixing Qt5 related bugs for many months. |
| [20:13:04] | gary_buhrmaster: | paul-h: The good news (I guess) is that people are testing a lot of features, some of which I had mostly forgotten (if I ever knew) even existed. |
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| [20:29:05] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: Re minnowboard max. It is unclear if the A4 rev of the board will fix it, but I suspect the Intel Compute Stick is going to be more interesting for some than a development platform. The status if CEC support on the compute stick is unknown. |
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| [20:37:55] | dekarl: | gary_buhrmaster: sounds like "lets give them working HDMI-CEC (and maybe HDMI-FEC) to sell in larger amounts" is not so important for any small device maker |
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| [20:42:06] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: hdmi-fec? Did you mean hdmi-hec? Or (more likely) I just do not remember all the hdmi acronyms/variants. |
| [20:43:22] | dekarl: | gary_buhrmaster: yes HEC -> FastEthernetConnection ;) |
| [20:44:10] | dekarl: | all these TLAs give me head aches |
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| [20:47:41] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: I believe TLA overload and the resulting brain damage is a recognized illness which is covered by most medical plans. |
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| [20:48:50] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: In some jurisdictions one might be able to claim permanent disability due to TLAs. |
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| [20:49:55] | dekarl: | gary_buhrmaster: remember to ask for 50%+ disability (at least over here you can easily get 40% but benefits start at 50%+) |
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| [20:59:15] | stuartm: | paul-h: ah, I hit a similar issue with QUrl in the upnp code, took me a while to figure out why it was breaking |
| [21:01:14] | stuartm: | ironically it was because QT 5 was stricter about what was valid input, so calling QUrl::setPath() with "foo/bar" failed, but "/foo/bar" worked |
| [21:01:50] | stuartm: | in QT 4 it was implicitly understood that the path starts with a forward slash |
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| [21:04:49] | sphery: | stichnot: Agreed... Starting at 3min point with 60s preroll and 2min start early is perfect. One mark at scheduled program start sounds perfect to me. |
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| [22:27:51] | markspieth: | re running frontend on arm, It runs with s/w decoding and opengl videoout on quad core 1.2G samsung galaxy S4 ok with top showing between 30–40% including HD. So pi2 should be ok @ quad 900M. As long as you have accel on the opengl libs enabled. |
| [22:31:03] | markspieth: | And this is a debug build too |
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| [23:50:54] | jya: | dekarl: I'm only jumping at the mention of my name. AFAIK, the rendering of VAAPI was broken on haswell processors and some others. it's only fixed properly in broadwell. |
| [23:51:21] | jya: | it's so buggy that xbmc does some readbacks and render them in software. |
| [23:51:38] | jya: | would need to have a similar method of detection |
| [23:53:29] | jya: | dekarl: ok, I totally miss the plot in regards to what you guys were talking about. |
| [23:53:54] | jya: | yes, ideally we would want to implement something similar to the VDPAU render. |
| [23:54:04] | jya: | OMX is closed to VDPAU than VAAPI |
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