| Thursday, February 26th, 2015, 00:01 UTC | ||
| [00:01:53] | stuartm: | yeah that's normal, not ideal though |
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| [01:31:07] | skd5aner: | stuartm: you can probaby close #11678 too |
| [01:31:07] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11678 ** | |
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| [09:35:25] | stuarta: | morning all |
| [09:44:14] | stuarta: | noticed last night mythavtest needs to retreive stuff from the database in order to work, which is silly. todo_list += cache essential stuff into config.xml |
| [09:57:51] | stuarta: | damn hard to work on stuff offline (like train up to london) if it needs a db on another machine |
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| [10:23:30] | stuartm: | stuarta: way too much stuff, video profiles, playback settings, bindings, you'd end up copying most half the settings table into config.xml |
| [10:23:44] | stuarta: | hmpf |
| [11:10:27] | ** stuarta dumps a copy of the db instead ** | |
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| [13:27:47] | stuartm: | next project, implementing the HTCPCP protocol – https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2324 |
| [13:30:00] | stuartm: | https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2324#section-2.3.2 |
| [13:34:53] | stuartm: | ah, that RFC is out of date, it's been updated in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7168 |
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| [13:55:02] | ** jheizer googled and was had. ** | |
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| [13:58:11] | lomion0815: | !seen jya |
| [13:58:11] | MythLogBot: | jya is here and has been idle for 17 hours 29 minutes 53 seconds |
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| [15:55:49] | dekarl-work: | Anybody got a hint on how to setup DVB-S with 28.2E for https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=707 ? |
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| [16:29:21] | jheizer: | Random OT: Do those of you in the rest of the world pay attention to or care about the results of the US and FCC screwing with net neutrality and reclassifying the internet? |
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| [16:30:27] | dekarl-work: | only to the extend that the EU follows known "good" US practice :( |
| [16:30:56] | jheizer: | Yeah, wasn't sure if those kinds of thing were happening internationally already and this could help or hurt. |
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| [16:34:43] | jheizer: | Sad part is things have changed so many times I don't even know how today's FCC ruling could effect things exactly. |
| [16:46:37] | stuarta: | so just grabbing a copy of the db wasn't enough to get mythavtest to work offline, for some stupid reason it also wants a backend online |
| [16:46:49] | stuarta: | which quite frankly, is crap, and unneccessary |
| [16:47:06] | stuarta: | however i suspect fixing it, requires pulling apart MythCoreContext |
| [16:51:30] | stuartm: | jheizer: I think the general response among those I know is stunned disbelief at the FUD campaign being waged by those who are opposed to net-neutrality in the US. How does something so obvious become such a polarising issue in a modern country? |
| [16:53:30] | jheizer: | My understanding of the options now though are to top the paid prioritizing that is going on now they have to redefine it as "Title II" so they can enforce that. But at the same times they in turn gives them the ability to regulate and who knows how they'll screw it up in the future. |
| [16:53:40] | jheizer: | seems like we've somehow moved into a lose lose position |
| [16:54:48] | dekarl-work: | jheizer: maybe we don't follow so closely because we are not used to net neutrality? the major ISP has clogged pipes to youtube in the evening, but google is free to order bigger pipes from them. (but then most content with music is blocked anyway) |
| [16:55:49] | jheizer: | One positive is if it becomes a public utility then new ISPs will have access to the existing utility poles vs having to bury all cables. |
| [16:55:54] | stuartm: | jheizer: in case it's not clear, it's generally held to be an obvious fact here in the UK that the internet, like roads and other utilities should not be subjected to different levels of service depending on what use you put it to – you pay for what you use sure, but not how you use it |
| [16:57:21] | jheizer: | stuartm, sounds like we need to be following the UK's "good" practice. |
| [16:57:24] | dekarl-work: | jheizer, you "just" need to break up the monopolies in the access area |
| [16:57:31] | stuartm: | now that doesn't mean ISPs can't setup their networks so that they have direct links to content providers for a more efficient service, but that they can't expect to charge them extra to carry their traffic |
| [16:57:36] | jheizer: | dekarl-work, ouch. That has to suck. |
| [16:58:11] | jheizer: | Yeah the Title II if I understand will make it slightly easier for new ISP deployments. |
| [16:58:29] | dekarl-work: | jheizer, we have that already, now they add "vectoring" which "sadly" breaks other providers usage of the major provider's last mile cables |
| [16:58:43] | jheizer: | But then there are so many city signed exclusivity deals and other BS who knows when it comes to putting those plans in action. |
| [16:59:49] | jheizer: | Yeah here it is common for large companies to have a peer server in the ISP's major hubs to cut down on the "public side" traffic |
| [17:00:01] | jheizer: | Netflix, youtube, etc IIRC |
| [17:00:02] | stuartm: | as I understand it, the most significant issue in the US has been ISPs requiring content providers to pay them additional fees not to deliberately downgrade (or block) their sites – which is clearly an abuse of their position |
| [17:01:17] | jheizer: | Exactly. Comcast has cable tv service and internet. Downgrade netflix streams till they are an unreliable server to try to drive up cable tv subscription numbers. |
| [17:01:26] | stuartm: | especially since those ISPs are not the direct peers of the sites in question |
| [17:01:38] | jheizer: | And in people like my case, comcast internet is the absolutely only option I have besides dialup. |
| [17:02:14] | stuarta: | both options suck |
| [17:03:23] | jheizer: | When I first moved here I was like awww snap comcast. But to be honest the server has been great. In 8 years is goes down maybe once a year on average. And being a work from home programmer I notice any day/evening outages pretty quickly. |
| [17:03:32] | jheizer: | *service |
| [17:20:21] | ** stuarta converts dev laptop to qt5 ** | |
| [17:28:29] | stuarta: | 4k monitors are so expensive. start at £300 |
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| [18:38:13] | jheizer: | Well, to follow up on earlier. US Internet is not officially a telecomm utility which means they can prevent blocks/"fast lanes", but who knows what else they may decide to regulate in the future. |
| [18:38:19] | jheizer: | *is now |
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| [18:54:57] | stuartm: | it's funny the difference in perception between countries, in the US regulation seems to be a dirty word, in the UK regulation is considered a good thing, unregulated industries are often seen ripping off and conning customers, participating in bad practices or worse putting lives in danger |
| [18:56:31] | jheizer: | Interesting. Yeah here it usually becomes well how are they going to screw this up now... |
| [18:56:40] | stuartm: | and when you consider the industries which are regulated, you have to ask – Do you want medical practices, drugs companies, lawyers, water and power supplies etc to operate without any rules and oversight? |
| [18:57:58] | jheizer: | Exactly |
| [18:58:08] | jheizer: | Problem then becomes this like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_Drinks_Portion_Cap_Rule |
| [18:58:17] | jheizer: | *thing like |
| [19:03:33] | stuartm: | yeah, that's the odd thing, I can't actually think of a case where regulators overreach like that here, it's probably happened but I can't remember – it's perhaps because of the fragmented govermental/legal system in the US that examples such as that are so prevalent |
| [19:04:40] | jheizer: | Lack of common sense, personal agendas, law suits over everything, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!, etc |
| [19:05:36] | jheizer: | Since I find this interesting to takes it maybe one step more OT, do you have these anti vaccination movements over there too? |
| [19:05:48] | stuartm: | over here regulators usually only ensure that existing laws are enforced, they have no power to create law but they may approach the government if they have concerns that their particular industry needs more legislation |
| [19:07:17] | jheizer: | Yeah they tried to pass net neutrality before, but it was decided the FCC did not have that power and was revolked. Their options where to reclassify internet themselves or wait for congress to pass a law they could enforce. I guess they got tired of waiting. |
| [19:08:03] | stuartm: | jheizer: there was a very brief anti-MMR vaccine trend some time back, not a movement but a lot of parents rejecting the vaccine for their children because they'd heard it gives children Autism (a lot of kids subsequently contracted Measles etc and some died as a result), the one paper linking the vaccine to autism was widely discredited |
| [19:10:05] | stuartm: | the parents weren't anti-vaccine, but they had come to the bizarre conclusion, based on no scientific evidence, that a combination vaccine such as the MMR (Measles, Mumps & Rubella) was unsafe |
| [19:11:03] | jheizer: | Same that is happening here now. Damn techie liberals in Silicon Valley are the worse. Google, Pixarm Cisco, IBM, etc have like 50–70% vaccinated rates |
| [19:11:19] | jheizer: | and now measles breaking out there |
| [19:12:55] | stuartm: | weird that that it's the supposedly more intelligent ones who aren't vaccinating, here it was the generally other way around – those who didn't vaccinate were generally of a pretty low IQ |
| [19:13:36] | jheizer: | Exactly. Makes no sense. |
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| [21:00:48] | stuartm: | stuarta: bullet point BBCode ([*]) appears to be broken in the forum, no idea why, I don't suppose you do ? |
| [21:06:24] | stuarta: | stuartm: nope, not changed anything since the updates a while back, so it may have been broken for a while |
| [21:07:37] | stuartm: | ok, it's odd, but I've got better things to do than to try and fix, was hoping for a simple (setting) solution |
| [21:10:34] | stuarta: | i'll keep it in mind, for when i have time to investigate |
| [21:15:14] | ** stuartm is irritated by GlobalSign sending an "update your certificate to SHA-2" email when they already pushed most customers to SHA-2 six months ago, I mean how hard is it to restrict that mailing to customers who previously refused the free sha2 upgrade? ** | |
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| [21:23:43] | stuartm: | stuarta: you MAY be interested in reading the following – https://letsencrypt.org/ISRG-CP-Feb-18-2015-DRAFT.pdf |
| [21:25:27] | stuartm: | but I warn you that it's long, a lot longer than it really should be for a project that's about making it SIMPLE to encrypt connections, I'm already wondering who is going to think reading that whole thing is preferable to paying a modest annual sum to an CA |
| [21:32:59] | stuarta: | hah |
| [21:34:02] | stuarta: | 82 pages wtf?!?!?! |
| [21:36:44] | stuarta: | typical american document including the don't sue me clauses of "dont use in nuclear power facilities, air traffic control, aircraft navigation, weapons control, and the blank clause of anything that may cause death or injury etc. that's why it's so bloody long |
| [21:36:58] | stuarta: | *blanket clause |
| [21:37:25] | stuarta: | and i thought ETSI documentation was bad |
| [21:40:34] | stuarta: | it's going to make me reconsider that the small amount of pain it takes to create a self signed cert is actually worth the effort compared to that |
| [21:41:04] | stuartm: | the bit that really disappointed was the 'fees' section, where they reserve the right tot start charging for the service – considering that they marketed the whole thing as a 'FREE' it's a wake up call |
| [21:43:01] | stuartm: | stuarta: the 'problem' is that many browser manufacturers are now treating self-signed certificates as though they were Ebola carriers, Chrome based browsers refuse them entirely unless you manually add the certificate a whitelist (not even a click to trust system, you have to dive into the settings and import the cert) |
| [21:43:23] | stuarta: | yeah, i've been through that pain |
| [21:43:54] | jheizer: | I've been fighting with that with my client and them trying to test new production servers. |
| [21:44:09] | jheizer: | They have the production certs installed but can't test things as Chrome says no thanks. |
| [21:44:25] | stuartm: | I don't like that policy, I think it's ill-conceived and counter-productive, but I'm not going to be able to change it, so Let's Encrypt at least offered a viable alternative |
| [21:44:44] | jheizer: | iframes just come up blank, so they thought some things were not working at all. |
| [21:47:24] | stuartm: | it's just dumb, the alternative is no encryption, how it that better? It even violates the spirit of RFCs on opportunistic encryption which say that any encryption is better than no encryption at all |
| [21:50:47] | jheizer: | Worse is since our product takes or embeds the 3rd parties, we get all the tickets and harassment. All to check that these other people installed their stuff ok. |
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| [22:09:53] | stuartm: | stuarta: fedora mirrors aren't very reliable are they? We seem to have a lot of failed auto-updates due to timeouts |
| [22:10:53] | stuarta: | yeah, it's a bit crappy |
| [22:11:15] | stuarta: | tempted to dig around and see if osuosl have their own and point it at that |
| [22:11:23] | stuartm: | pulled the updates to mizar manually, just an update to curl this time around |
| [22:12:30] | stuarta: | stuartm: what qt5 version do you have? |
| [22:15:10] | stuartm: | 5.2.0 |
| [22:15:13] | stuarta: | okay, it's not the qt version, it's the uhd demo video causing weird behaviour |
| [22:15:36] | stuarta: | mpeg2, h264 content all work |
| [22:15:56] | stuartm: | although I'd backed down to 4.8 when I hit the schedule creation bug, now gigem has fixed that I need to switch back to 5 again |
| [22:16:11] | stuarta: | i've moved my whole dev laptop to qt5 |
| [22:17:00] | stuarta: | and as it's f21, it has Qt 5.4.0 |
| [22:18:37] | stuartm: | we'll need to pick a minimum version of QT 5 soon so everyone knows which version of the docs to use as a reference |
| [22:19:10] | stuartm: | that will depend on what the slowest distro (Cent OS?) provides |
| [22:20:17] | stuarta: | so debian wheezy backports has 5.3.2 |
| [22:20:37] | stuartm: | Mageia 5 isn't too far away, I'd expect that to ship with 5.4, but CentOS will probably be older |
| [22:21:08] | ** stuarta checks a few more ** | |
| [22:21:15] | stuarta: | f20 has Qt 5.4.0 as well |
| [22:22:46] | stuartm: | huh, the fact that Debian backports offered 5.3.2, ahead of my 5.2 was a head-scratcher, so I just checked and it seems I failed to enable the backport repos for Mageia ... |
| [22:22:55] | stuarta: | doh |
| [22:23:29] | stuarta: | centos7 is 5.4.0 as well |
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| [22:24:20] | stuarta: | bloody hell, even centos6 has 5.4.0 (from epel) |
| [22:26:20] | stuartm: | wtf, I've enabled all of the backport repos (core, tainted, updates, 32bit) and yet there are no new updates available? |
| [22:26:46] | stuartm: | enough to shake my confidence in mageia as a cutting edge distro |
| [22:27:28] | ** stuarta checks mint ** | |
| [22:31:14] | stuarta: | so mint has 5.2.1 |
| [22:31:31] | stuarta: | so 5.2 seems reasonable |
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