| Friday, January 16th, 2015, 00:05 UTC | ||
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| [07:21:46] | dekarl1: | tgm4883: calling it like this "GIT_MAJOR_RELEASE=28 /home/user/packaging/deb/build-debs.sh master /home/user/debbuild.tmp/" worked wonders wrt the version string ;) |
| [07:21:51] | dekarl1 is now known as dekarl | |
| [07:26:26] | dekarl: | had to run dpkg -i twice as the "replaces" lines didn't apply to the current version(expect) but then it worked (also had to manually install pmount) => works |
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| [08:15:56] | dekarl: | just tried the frontend, the changes (moving the static html content to -common) had the desired effect, browsing to http://the-frontends-hostname-goes-here:6547/Frontend/wsdl works like a charm |
| [08:19:22] | dekarl: | stuartm, will the MythFE remote control stay in 0.28? I'm thinking about offering it to our users to make it work better on mobile devices, so the HTML/CSS wizards can give something back (that I'm unable to do, I tried but failed to make that page fullscreen and stay fullscreen when switching device orientation) e.g. make it work nice on tablets with an option to save it as "app" http://the-frontends-hostname-goes-here:6547/MythFE/GetRemote |
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| [09:54:00] | stuartm: | dekarl: <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, user-scalable=no"> |
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| [09:54:57] | dekarl-work: | stuarta, just thought this might be nice for us, too. (given that many pull requests don't go together with a ticket in trac and get overlooked) http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-201 . . . -Integration |
| [09:55:21] | dekarl-work: | "When a user files a Github pull request against the FreeBSD source code tree on Github, this script will open a new PR in FreeBSD Bugzilla." |
| [09:56:35] | stuartm: | no plans to get rid of it, in fact although I'd like to improve the frontend web app, I don't think I'll have time to do it for 0.28 |
| [09:58:16] | stuartm: | heh, the remote control html is broken, guess I will need to fix that |
| [10:01:37] | stuartm: | ugh, it's hardcoded |
| [10:16:00] | warpme: | Morning all! |
| [10:16:53] | warpme: | Just quick Q: is current master UPNP suppoused to work with VLC 2.3 on IOS? |
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| [10:25:21] | stuartm: | warpme: no idea, it's more the other way around, MythTV exposes a standards compliant server, so the question is whether upnp is working in VLC 2.3 on iOS |
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| [10:26:26] | stuartm: | I think someone, de-karl? mentioned that VLC on iOS was recently patched to fix some upnp bugs |
| [10:28:16] | warpme: | stuartm: sure. Just asking as on 0.27 it was working quite well – but with current master mythtv server is seen as upnp server – but when selected – only search field is displayed. Is there resonable upnp app worth to try? |
| [10:28:45] | stuartm: | is bubbleupnp available for iOS? Found it to be the best app on Android |
| [10:29:21] | stuartm: | warpme: ironically master is more upnp/dlna compliant than 0.27 was |
| [10:30:53] | warpme: | yeah. I believe so. For sure it should be considered as most advanced FOSS upnp server. Sad that this standard has so poor state of implementation :-( |
| [10:31:37] | stuartm: | I think I can guess why vlc might be broken as I've discovered other upnp apps which broke when we started advertising that we supported MediaServer > 1, and ContentDirectory > 1 |
| [10:31:45] | dekarl-work: | warpme are you taking part in the testflight? |
| [10:32:41] | warpme: | dekarl-work: ?? |
| [10:33:05] | dekarl-work: | warpme: https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=123435 |
| [10:33:47] | dekarl-work: | Might suggest the devs to install a master backend to see the greatness of UPNP (and keep compatible) but ENOTIME and its "yet another forum registration" |
| [10:34:03] | warpme: | stuartm: so is it possible that my WiFi access point (which advertizing also UPNP) interferes with mythtv UPNP server? |
| [10:35:18] | stuartm: | some apps are incorrectly coded to ignore servers which offer versions of the API greater than version 1 (2002) – the correct upnp compliant behaviour is to interoperate with those services using only parts of the API that they understand – upnp is fully backwards compatible |
| [10:35:24] | stuartm: | warpme: no |
| [10:35:37] | warpme: | dekarl-work: ah I see. Thx. I'll try beta :-) |
| [10:37:03] | stuartm: | it's worth asking the VLC iOS devs whether their upnp client will talk to servers supporting MediaServer and ContentDirectory version 4 (2014) even though their app only supports version 1 (2002) |
| [10:44:13] | stuartm: | I'm trying to re-find the relevant line from the spec about how clients must support servers which expose a newer version than they understand |
| [10:47:31] | dekarl-work: | referring to the spec would be good, they (vlc devs) also asked for the spec wrt sharing of PIDs between services in MPTS. (e.g. when regional variants show all the same main content and share all pids or euronews sharing the video pid across all services) |
| [10:47:45] | dekarl-work: | still need to look that one up :/ |
| [10:49:47] | stuartm: | ah, had it bookmarked, Section 1.1.2 of "UPnP Device Architecture 1.0" |
| [10:50:07] | stuartm: | that's Section 1.2.2 in Device Architecture 1.1 |
| [10:50:55] | stuartm: | <quote>Updated UPnP device and service types are required to be fully backward compatible with previous versions of the same type.Devices must advertise the highest supported version of each supported type. For example, if a device supports version 2 of the “Audio†service, it would advertise only version 2, even though it also supports version 1. Control points that support a given version of a device or service are able to also interact |
| [10:50:56] | stuartm: | with higher versions because of this backward compatibility requirement, but only using the functionality that was defined in the lower version. For example, if a control point supports only version “1†of |
| [10:50:58] | stuartm: | the “Audio†service, and a device advertises that it supports version “2†of the “Audio†service, the control point should |
| [10:50:59] | stuartm: | recognize and be able to use the device.</quote> |
| [10:51:31] | warpme: | dekarl-work, stuartm: already sent mail do vlc devs with proposal to to be 'testing-bridge' between MythTV and iOS8 VLC. Lets see whats happen... |
| [10:51:52] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: can't argue when presented with the specs |
| [10:52:00] | dekarl-work: | looking forward to have a nice UPNP server (ours) and client (theirs) |
| [10:52:54] | stuartm: | of course I don't know whether that's the reason they are unable to interoperate, could be something else entirely, but it's a reasonable theory as it's tripped up other upnp client developers in the past |
| [10:53:19] | warpme: | exactly. Keeping in mind hell of work You already devoted to this area it will be really good to achive "MythTV as most advanced & complete UPNP server in FOSS" |
| [10:59:40] | stuartm: | warpme: if you're interested in experimenting you could patch the version numbers back to 1, see whether VLC is then able to see the server |
| [11:01:42] | stuartm: | programs/mythbackend/devicemaster.xml – change MediaServer:4 to MediaServer:1 |
| [11:01:59] | warpme: | stuartm: good idea. I'll look on this when back to home... |
| [11:02:42] | stuartm: | libs/libmythupnp/upnpcds.h – change ContentDirectory:4 to ContentDirectory:1 |
| [11:04:12] | stuartm: | libs/libmythupnp/upnpcmgr.h – change ConnectionManager:3 to ConnectionManager:1 |
| [11:08:10] | stuartm: | warpme: patch to make that easier – http://pastebin.com/XagC8zKw |
| [11:09:01] | stuartm: | anyone who has access to vlc on iOS is welcome to try that patch and let me know if it helps |
| [11:15:01] | warpme: | stuartm: thx for patch. modified backend already build. Sadly my L2 VPN to home network isn't supporting mcast so I can't test remotelly upnp... |
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| [11:54:34] | stuartm: | not too happy with the format of the data returned by Frontend/GetStatus – for one it's a pain to parse, not very 'xml' in it's approach e.g. <state><string><key>state</key><value>idle</val ue></string></state> |
| [11:55:03] | stuartm: | should be <status><state>idle</state></status> |
| [11:55:08] | stuartm: | or similar |
| [11:56:13] | stuartm: | is anyone up for redesigning it? |
| [12:35:48] | stuarta: | not today ;-) |
| [12:52:01] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, fyi https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=623 |
| [13:05:14] | stuarta: | same person has put in 3 different feature requests, 2 on upnp |
| [13:32:44] | dekarl-work: | hmm, some forum had a reminder in it "one feature per topic, and no requesting new features in replies" but it can't find it in Kodi/VLC forums... After reading his suggestions im confused |
| [13:44:47] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: it's ours, look at the "Forum Rules" at the top of the forum |
| [13:44:48] | stuarta: | huh? just realized kodi = xbmc. why the name change? or am i missing something? |
| [14:01:05] | jheizer: | I believe it was part legal (from having xbox in the name) and part wanting something newer since the xbox it ran on is long gone. |
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| [14:08:12] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, trademark stuff due to the "xbox" name heritage. http://kodi.tv/introducing-kodi-14/ and http://kodi.wiki/view/Official:Trademark_Policy_FAQ |
| [14:10:14] | dekarl-work: | over here the-project-formerly-known-as-xbmc is on sceond place in the google results behind //kodi.de/ |
| [14:18:00] | stuartm: | nuts, just wiped out my firewall changes needed for vpn bridging |
| [14:21:34] | stuarta: | arse |
| [14:33:22] | stuartm: | can reconstruct them easily enough, but it's still a pain |
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| [15:07:43] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: not sure how best to support livetv, haven't given it much thought and I doubt it's going to be that easy to implement |
| [15:07:55] | stuartm: | possible, but not even on my radar atm |
| [15:09:44] | stuartm: | would be easy if we get DASH livetv sorted, since the latest upnp spec includes support for DASH and we want it anyway for the webfrontend |
| [15:13:47] | stuartm: | though since almost no upnp clients support the latest version of upnp ... fwiw, I don't remember reading about a livetv type option, not something where you can switch channels exactly, you'd have to 'fake' livetv with a series of endpoints so you'd select "Channel One" from the list of 'Videos' and it would stream only that channel |
| [15:14:10] | dekarl-work: | can it basicaly be raw mpeg2ts over http, with the segments joined into one stream at the end/beginning of the programmes? |
| [15:14:27] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: yes |
| [15:14:59] | dekarl-work: | ahh, that was what I understood as "LiveTV" a container full of streams each representing one service |
| [15:16:11] | stuartm: | that's actually not the tricky bit, especially if you implement along the lines I described, where each channel is treated as a video with no duration, changing channel would mean choosing to play a different 'video' |
| [15:17:51] | stuartm: | yeah, maybe that's not so difficult, the only real trick would be to seamlessly transition files within the http server and even that's not so hard |
| [15:18:50] | stuartm: | not sure how well upnp clients would handle discontinuities, but they should in theory be OK especially if they are DLNA compliant |
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| [15:23:28] | dblain: | stuartm: that's how the HDHomeRun Prime handles live streaming through upnp. My tv's upnp client works fine with it. (it even can stream protected content directly from the HDHR) |
| [15:24:21] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, sounds like Trchnisat implemented it just like that in their DVB receivers http://youtu.be/6_koLwox3dU https://www.technisat.com/de_DE/UPnP/352-568/ (the latter page is not available in english) |
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| [15:31:26] | stuartm: | ok, so it won't be technically inferior to other implementation :) |
| [15:33:22] | stuartm: | could probably knock up a proof of concept in a few hours (allowing for how slow compiles are), minus the programme transition logic and proper handling of livetv/recording clashes which would take a little bit more thought and work |
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| [15:36:52] | stuartm: | first step would be a new GetLiveTV endpoint to the services API |
| [15:56:37] | tgm4883: | dekarl: can you do a few things for me. Can you pastebin the output of 'git branch' from the packaging directory. Also can you pastebin the output of 'apt-cache show mythtv-common' |
| [15:57:31] | tgm4883: | dekarl: based on what you are telling me, it really sounds like you're building master from the packaging branch |
| [15:57:34] | tgm4883: | err |
| [15:57:39] | tgm4883: | from the fixes/0.27 branch |
| [15:58:17] | dekarl-work: | I think a simple http://backend/recordingstream/-recordedid-, http://backend/livestream/-chanid- and the same for videos/music could nicely fits to the service api, e.g. to get xbmc off our native protocol. |
| [15:59:06] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: once I get home. but I verified the branch is master some days ago :/ |
| [15:59:54] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: ok, but we didn't backport the dependency of pumount to fixes/0.27, we only added that to master. So that fits in line with that |
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| [16:00:57] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: or if you have a build log, looking at the beginning of that |
| [16:01:02] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: is the debian changelog going to always have released versions or is it possible to have unreleased version strings in there? |
| [16:01:28] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: you mean mythtv version, or distro version? |
| [16:01:48] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: based on that I can add a changelog entry for 0.28 or come up with a patch for master that just adds one to the version from the changelog |
| [16:01:50] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: or are you meaning you want to see something besides 0.28 for master |
| [16:01:56] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: the former exists – http://backend/Content/GetRecording?RecordedId={id} |
| [16:02:14] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: I'm trying to find out what the file contents are |
| [16:02:43] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: this file https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/mast . . . changelog.in |
| [16:03:19] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: I don't see why that couldn't have 0.28 in it. |
| [16:03:24] | tgm4883: | superm1_: ^ |
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| [16:04:02] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/mast . . . -debs.sh#L95 <- here is the code for "if we are on a fixes/0.xxx branch use xxx, but if its master use whatever is at the top of the changelog, unless something was set outside of this script" |
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| [16:05:02] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: here's the set GIT_MAJOR_RELEASE from changelog part https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/mast . . . debs.sh#L167 |
| [16:05:09] | tgm4883: | yea that probably should be 0.28 in changelog.in then |
| [16:05:19] | tgm4883: | since we're setting it everywhere else |
| [16:05:23] | warpme: | stuartm: I just checked current master (with patch reporting upnp v1) with VLC2.3.0/iOS and results are....IMPRESIVE. All works perfectly! |
| [16:06:29] | warpme: | Only missing thing are: coverarts in music and coverarts in recordings which haven't metadata. |
| [16:07:05] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: since you had to install pmount, did you have mytharchive installed too? |
| [16:07:33] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, GetRecording handles trick play? e.g. streaming from some byte position based on the cutlist |
| [16:07:50] | stuartm: | warpme: coverart works fine here, although I only have embedded artwork – it uses the existing services API GetAlbumArt – so worth checking that works for you first |
| [16:07:51] | warpme: | Also having music/videos presented also by directory structure would be really nice. Nevertheless upnp is fully usable for me on VLC... |
| [16:08:02] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: we set pmount as a dependency of mytharchive in master https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/513c . . . trol.in#L472 Does any other mythtv piece need it? |
| [16:08:05] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: aye, I have *everything* install on the MBE and the minimal frontend (plus music/etc) packages on the FE |
| [16:08:14] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: yes, supports http content ranges |
| [16:08:30] | stuartm: | although not cutlists |
| [16:08:49] | warpme: | stuartm: this is exactly case: my music has 95% of songs where coverart is external file – not image embeeded in audio file. |
| [16:08:56] | stuartm: | if the client has a cutlist it can apply it by requesting only specific ranges |
| [16:09:22] | stuartm: | warpme: well try the services API, if that doesn't work then it's a bug in there somewhere |
| [16:09:47] | stuartm: | /Content/GetAlbumArt?Id={song_id} |
| [16:09:48] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: only mytharchive needs pmount right? or does something else need it too? |
| [16:10:19] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, I've seen the relevant patches https://code.mythtv.org/trac/query?reporter=%5Ejlbarriere68%40 |
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| [16:10:49] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: I don't know what mytharchive does :/ |
| [16:11:16] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: it lets you create DVD's from recorded shows |
| [16:11:32] | tgm4883: | according to our description anyway |
| [16:11:40] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: what were you installing pmount for? |
| [16:11:53] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: oh yes, that part was clear. but I have no idea how that is achieved in detail, in terms of dependencies |
| [16:12:07] | warpme: | stuartm: just checked for music file with embeeded coverart: indeed VLC stops showing folder picture but also there is no coverart visible. Instead of there is black fiels with single small white line in left down corner |
| [16:12:19] | dekarl-work: | tgm4883: I installed pmount so dpkg would let me install my mythtv packages |
| [16:12:48] | tgm4883: | oh |
| [16:12:50] | tgm4883: | I get it now |
| [16:12:58] | warpme: | stuartm: probably more VLC issue tham mythtv... |
| [16:13:04] | stuartm: | warpme: we should supply screenshots for recordings, even if there's no artwork otherwise – it's sent as <res> with an image/jpg mimetype – per the upnp/dlna spec |
| [16:13:04] | tgm4883: | ok yea, you are building from the right branch then |
| [16:13:12] | tgm4883: | dpkg doesn't auto-install dependencies |
| [16:13:49] | stuartm: | warpme: at least we know the cause of the main issue, which is a VLC bug |
| [16:13:51] | warpme: | stuartm: is there plan to ad in services API support for coverart from extenal file?. Mythmusic already does such thing. |
| [16:14:01] | tgm4883: | dekarl-work: scratch all the stuff I asked you to get earlier |
| [16:14:09] | stuartm: | warpme: it should already work |
| [16:14:17] | stuartm: | warpme: but I've not personally tested it |
| [16:14:28] | warpme: | hmm – not in my case :-( |
| [16:14:30] | stuartm: | services API uses the same code as mythmusic |
| [16:15:16] | stuartm: | warpme: associations between the songs and albumart exist in music_albumart? |
| [16:15:42] | warpme: | stuartm: may You verify this in Your setup? If it is working for You then I think it is VLC thing... |
| [16:16:12] | stuartm: | I'll try, have to fake some stuff as all my music has embedded art :) |
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| [16:16:37] | stuartm: | warpme: the services API url I posted returns nothing? |
| [16:17:02] | warpme: | stuartm: I believe association is there as mythmusic shows coverart OK... |
| [16:17:53] | stuartm: | warpme: yes, but it may do it via a shortcut and not by creating an actual link in the database |
| [16:18:25] | stuartm: | http://{backend_ip}:6544/Content/GetAlbumArt?Id={song_id} |
| [16:18:53] | stuartm: | if that doesn't work then it's a mythmusic/services api issue, not vlc |
| [16:21:29] | stuartm: | warpme: has anyone told the vlc ios devs what the bug is exactly? the version issue, with the quote from the upnp spec? |
| [16:22:09] | stuartm: | I know they'd appreciate being told exactly what's wrong and why |
| [16:22:12] | warpme: | stuartm: I tested for audio file with and without embeeded coverart – URL returns nothing... |
| [16:22:42] | warpme: | to make sure how can I test URL for movie (where cover art is OK) |
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| [16:28:01] | warpme: | Well – lets concentrate on song with embeeded coverart (id=11960) – indded looking on this song in albumart table there is no entry for 11960. So it looks like this is shortcut... How can I fix this? |
| [16:28:07] | stuartm: | warpme: ok, looks like there's a bug in the GetAlbumArt endpoint, if there's no height/width specified |
| [16:28:16] | stuartm: | warpme: rescan |
| [16:28:42] | stuartm: | although ... if the artwork was embedded after the file was imported a rescan won't pick it up |
| [16:29:08] | warpme: | I'll do – but I don't believe it will help. This song was added few days ago.... |
| [16:29:11] | stuartm: | if you go to the metadata editor for that track, switch to the albumart view it should detect it automatically |
| [16:29:25] | stuartm: | just, make sure you then save the change |
| [16:32:24] | warpme: | how can I enter metadata editor? There is no such menu entry? |
| [16:32:58] | warpme: | OK – 'e' from keyb works |
| [16:36:43] | warpme: | well – metadata editir shows proper coverart (and also filename). But there is still no entry for this song in music_albumart table |
| [16:39:27] | stuartm: | think I'll have to pass you over to Paul |
| [16:40:13] | stuartm: | btw, does your user have write access to /tmp |
| [16:40:33] | warpme: | on FE or BE? |
| [16:41:38] | warpme: | yes it has 777 on both |
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| [16:43:07] | stuartm: | ok, we'll fix this issue later, I'm going to lose track otherwise |
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| [16:46:16] | warpme: | sure. For the record: I checked track which has entry in music_albumart – VLC shows black whole instead of folder picture for it. services API for this song shows nothing. |
| [16:49:16] | warpme: | If it will be helpfull – I can provide VNC/SSH-in-WebBrowser over Internet for debuging purpousses. Just neeed info when in advance... |
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| [16:56:49] | stuartm: | just pushed a fix which may or may not help |
| [17:01:21] | stuartm: | the full resolution artwork url (we provide four different sizes for upnp) was broken in master with icons in the AlbumArt storage group |
| [17:01:36] | stuartm: | s/icons/images/ |
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| [18:22:54] | superm1_: | tgm4883: yeah putting 0.28 at the top of that should be okay |
| [18:23:31] | superm1_: | it hasn't broken autobuilds because we set it externally, good point |
| [18:23:42] | superm1_ is now known as superm1 | |
| [18:42:44] | tgm4883: | superm1: ok, is that something you can push? |
| [18:42:48] | tgm4883: | I can push it later |
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| [19:04:43] | stuartm: | the format ipv6 addresses is a terrible design |
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| [19:06:13] | stuartm: | no wonder take up of ipv6 is so slow, the fact that an existing application needs special handling of ipv6 address e.g. wrapping in square brackets to add a port number was ill conceived |
| [19:08:22] | stuartm: | </rant> |
| [19:09:54] | stuartm: | I mean would it have been so hard to continue using full-stop as a separator instead of using a colon which already served a purpose |
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| [19:56:22] | stuarta: | stuartm: yep it would actually have broken more stuff because then parsing an ipv4 address vs ipv6 address becomes incredibly complicated |
| [20:00:42] | ** stuartm disagrees ** | |
| [20:02:30] | dekarl: | Now we need that in EIT ^^ https://twitter.com/fmavituna/status/555769470321688576/photo/1 |
| [20:02:50] | stuartm: | but even if that were true, why not another separator, why re-use one which already served a purpose so that henceforth you can't simply append the port number to an IP, you need to try and distinguish what type of ip it is, then wrap it before you can add the port – that previously simple process becomes much more complicated and needs to be repeated every time |
| [20:03:28] | stuartm: | the whole thing reeks of design by committee |
| [20:04:23] | stuartm: | dekarl: nice |
| [20:19:56] | stuartm: | dekarl: fwiw, that's not something that would work with the WebFrontend – we'll be using nonces on in-line javascript combined with the CSP (first half of these changes went in yesterday) |
| [20:22:05] | stuartm: | inline javascript won't be allowed to run unless it's accompanied by a random, one-time string (nonce) which matches the one specified in the header – nonce changes every time the page is loaded |
| [20:32:20] | clever: | just use dns or a hosts file and all of your arguments are moot |
| [20:34:08] | clever: | and with the size of an ipv6 addr, do you expect the user to type it in? |
| [20:38:43] | dekarl: | wasn't that part of a 31c3 talk? how crap and incomplete the IPv6 tools are? |
| [20:39:02] | dekarl: | found it http://events.ccc.de/congress/2014/wiki/Light . . . sement_Tools |
| [20:39:42] | clever: | main thing holding ipv6 back on my end is 2 factors, a: the isp doesnt support it, b: some of my routers active break ipv6, and no config stops it |
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| [20:40:12] | dekarl: | over here we started to roll out IPv6 for internet over tv cable customers |
| [20:40:32] | clever: | one of my routers was sending RA packets, even when i told it not to |
| [20:40:36] | clever: | and its WAN port went nowhere |
| [20:40:44] | clever: | so it null-routed all ipv6 traffic, making the gateway useless |
| [20:45:27] | jheizer: | One of these days I need to sit down and really understand ipv6. My ISP give me an address. My Pfsense box accepts it and hands local-link addresses to my network. But ipv6 tests fail. Never sat down to understand it all. |
| [20:46:32] | Roklobsta: | my isp has had ipv6 for a few years now. i enabled it for a whie and thenturned it off. I prefer dynamic ipv4 to static every-atom-in-my-house-can-have-a-unique-address mode. |
| [20:46:56] | clever: | lol |
| [20:47:18] | clever: | there can be security issues, your used to NAT just not allowing access by default |
| [20:47:30] | clever: | so ipv6 winds up leaving every port on every pc wide open, until you remember to firewall it at some layer |
| [20:47:52] | Roklobsta: | i had the router (mikrotik) set up to be a proper ipv6 firewall. |
| [20:49:19] | Roklobsta: | call me paranoid but i don't want to help facebook/google/whoever any more than i have to to track my household. It's hard enough even using the exploding-cookie addon in firefox. |
| [20:52:01] | Roklobsta: | and adblock |
| [20:53:08] | dekarl: | NAT is not a security feature, its not to be confused with a firewall |
| [20:53:24] | Roklobsta: | i know |
| [20:53:25] | clever: | dekarl: yeah, but after so many decades of it blocking by default, its easy to forget that |
| [20:53:46] | clever: | i believe dhcpv6 allows generating new addresses for devices each time they connect, so your systems wont be static |
| [20:54:04] | stuartm: | jheizer: I know I'll have to face it one day, but I'll keep putting it off as long as possible |
| [20:54:11] | Roklobsta: | nat though by it's nature acts as a nice firewall by making your network somewhat assymetric |
| [20:54:29] | Roklobsta: | my isp allocates a static prefix. |
| [20:55:06] | Roklobsta: | that's enough to finger an adsl connection/household/business |
| [20:57:57] | stuartm: | I like NAT, I understand NAT, NAT makes life simple |
| [20:58:14] | jheizer: | Ah, I have to allow outgoing ipv6 on pfsecne's firewall. It only default added a rule for ipv4. |
| [20:59:12] | tgm4883: | I should check that I have my ipv6 firewall setup |
| [21:00:14] | stuartm: | clever: not just every PC, but every network connected device – printers, TVs, phones, tablets, even fridges ... that's a scary thought, and without NAT I'm not even sure how you lock those down |
| [21:00:47] | clever: | stuartm: the gateway can also filter incoming traffic by port if you configure it to do so |
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| [21:02:01] | clever: | i was using a whitelist on mine, ending it with -j LOG and a default of DROP |
| [21:02:38] | clever: | (facepalm), i forgot to re-do that setup on the new gateway, ive been wide open for months :P |
| [21:03:18] | Roklobsta: | nat blocks incoming access to your internal network by it's nature due. that said your nat or not nat system should still have a drop-all-incoming-unless-i-say-so rule. |
| [21:03:42] | clever: | yep, one of the many things i forgot when the ISP forced a new router on me |
| [21:04:00] | stuartm: | clever: right, but how do you block ssh access by default to all devices, but allow it for a single device? add exceptions to rules by MAC? Maybe that's how it would work, I've not seen a consumer grade router that offers that sort of functionality but I guess it will be commonplace when ipv6 takes hold |
| [21:04:32] | Roklobsta: | nah, most routers operate in a very simple mode. |
| [21:04:38] | clever: | stuartm: since my isp doesnt offer ipv6, i'm running a gateway on a normal desktop, so its purely ip6tables |
| [21:05:01] | Roklobsta: | nat/blockall/UPNP/virtualserver |
| [21:05:40] | stuartm: | clever: right, I don't want to go back to the dark days of running my own router, been there, done that, happier these days with an off the shelf solution |
| [21:06:04] | clever: | my off the shelf solution is almost useless |
| [21:06:12] | Roklobsta: | not much scope to do interesting things. devices like mikrotik are cheap but are like a 1000 blade swiss army knife with all 1000 blades able to come out and be used. |
| [21:06:17] | stuartm: | let's me focus my time and effort on something more productive |
| [21:06:18] | clever: | nothing on wifi can talk to wired, so ssh from a laptop to a desktop is imposible |
| [21:06:40] | clever: | and port forwarding cant forward internal traffic, so i cant do the unsafe thing and forward ssh for internal use |
| [21:07:30] | jheizer: | I use to need the pfsense box for a IPsec site to site VPN, but pretty unnecessary now. Just does ad removal and transparent proxy now. |
| [21:11:01] | clever: | (facepalm), my ipv6 is so wide open, i can port-scan virtual machines |
| [21:11:18] | clever: | from the outside |
| [21:27:57] | tgm4883: | I need to figure out this ipv6 addressing, like why this machine has about 15 addresses |
| [21:28:46] | clever: | throw some in a pastebin and i can maybe decode it |
| [21:42:28] | Roklobsta: | typically the prefix is fixed but your suffix is random and can change often |
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| [22:15:06] | jheizer: | ipv6 success |
| [22:15:25] | jheizer: | after a call rudely interrupted me |
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