MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

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Thursday, August 28th, 2014, 00:10 UTC
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[01:34:46] gigem: jya: Okay. FWIW, tonight's testing started as poorly as last night. I bit the bullet and pulled the cable card out of my HDHR to try in the new Ceton. It again started poorly, but then got better, albeit never perfect. LiveTV and 4 simultaneous recordings eventually worked. With 4 other recordings going, I never could the remaining 2 tuners to work. I'd hoped to do a smooth and quick transition without
[01:34:48] gigem: any new cable cards, but I think I'm going to have to go get a new cable card for temporary testing of the new Ceton and it's expected replacement before I can safely put it into production use.
[01:35:42] jya: gigem: I’m not sure what you’re asking me… is that a regression of the previous time?
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[04:12:24] gigem: jya: I wasn't asking anything. I was just letting you and anyone who cares that the Ceton 6eth worked with a cable card. I just tried again without and it didn't work again, so there could still be a problem.
[04:12:56] jya: the cable card control the ethernet one?
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[04:21:28] gigem: jya: I don't understand the question.
[04:21:50] jya: you wrote “Ceton 6eth worked with a cable card”
[04:22:07] jya: not knowing what 6eth stands for, I assumed it meant “ethernet"
[04:25:19] gigem: The 6eth, aka InfiniTV/6eth is the 6-tuner ethernet version. There is also a 6-tuner PCIe version. Anyway, yes, the ethernet version eventually mostly worked with a cable card installed. The same unit has yet to work with MythTV without a cable card installed. In the w/o case, it should function similarly to a plain ATSC/QAM tuner, but since that configuration is not used much, there's no guarantee it
[04:25:20] gigem: still works.
[04:25:49] jya: why would a cable card be required ?
[04:27:37] gigem: It's not strictly required, but the primary feature of those Ceton devices and the SD HDHomerun Prime are that they are designed to use a cable card. If someone really just wants a plain ATSC/QAM tuner, there are probably cheaper alternatives.
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[08:56:06] stuartm: is the decryption with the ceton done transparently by the device?
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[14:22:03] gigem: stuartm: Yes, the decryption is done transparently, however, the tuning is done completely differently. With a cable card you just use the virtual channel number and the device converts that to the needed frequency, modulation and programids. Without a cable card, you have to provide that all yourself. In my last test without a cable card, the Ceton appeared to be tuned correctly, configured to stream to a
[14:22:04] gigem: port MythTV was listening on, but MythTV still wasn't happy.
[14:53:44] stuartm: ahh ok
[14:54:02] stuarta: stuartm: it's black magic to us over this side of the pond...
[14:54:04] stuartm: win for a consistent API :/
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[14:54:59] stuartm: stuarta: yeah, some aspects of US digital TV seem deliberately obtuse
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[16:10:33] stuartm: sphery: thanks for taking the time to answer that ticket, I confess I just groaned once I saw the patch and left it for someone else to deal with ;)
[16:11:21] stuartm: why on earth is the debian package writing anything directly to the database anyway? (rhetorical)
[16:20:58] sphery: tgm4883: is https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/mast . . . v_0.27.0.sql something you guys are creating? If so, it's doing some bad things--like putting in settings that shouldn't be there. The only settings that belong in an "initial" database are https://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/myth . . . ck.cpp#n4047 (plus any that are required due to changes since the last initial-DB rollup patch--which currently ...
[16:21:05] sphery: ... means several versions ago). Also, it has some broken stuff (like recordfilter 3) and missing stuff (like record/default template) that would cause buggy behavior. There's also other data being inserted into tables that should be empty that may in some cases also cause bugs (like displayprofilegroups, displayprofiles, housekeeping, jumpppoints, keybindings, recgrouppassword, and storagegroup). There's also some unnecessary logging being ...
[16:21:11] sphery: ... inserted--though at least that won't cause bugs. And there's data for plugins being inserted when the plugins should handle all necessary data initialization themselves.
[16:22:16] stuartm: any clever ideas of how to determine which broadcast standard was used for a particular recording (DVB, ATSC, other)? It has to work reasonably well for existing recordings as well as future ones
[16:22:23] tgm4883: sphery: yes I believe so
[16:22:40] sphery: It looks like someone has been updating the initial schema for deb-based systems using the (already-broken) initial schema creating script as a start and upgrading with mythtv-setup and so it's getting more and more cruft and outdated info.
[16:24:37] tgm4883: superm1: ^
[16:25:24] sphery: I'll admit that I've been bad in not doing initial DB schema rollups for new versions so there's no DB update after, but ideally you guys would use an empty database and let us create the proper/up-to-date-with-current-code/only-what-data-should-be-there database
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[16:26:07] sphery: Unfortunately, though, I still haven't broken the DB update out into something you can call via command-line, specifically to make your (packagers') job easier.
[16:26:32] sphery: But I'd accept a patch that does so. :)
[16:26:44] tgm4883: Can said patch be in Python?
[16:27:11] ** tgm4883 tis joking **
[16:27:58] sphery: stuartm: Yeah, I assumed at first that his patch modified a patch that modified mythtv's dbcheck, but when I dug deeper, I saw that it was an initial DB creation script used in the debian packaging. I didn't realize it was there before, or I'd have done a quick once over earlier.
[16:30:22] sphery: tgm4883: Hehe. I'd like to get it as part of mythutil or something (maybe separate myth_upgrade_db program?). I'll bump that one higher on my MythTV TODO list (but, unfortunately, I still have a lot of things above my MythTV TODO list on my overall TODO list.  :(
[16:33:23] tgm4883: sphery: honestly, I've never installed mythtv outside of our packaging. It might make sense for me to at least try it. So let me make sure I understand, we should have a completely empty DB and let mythtv create tables and such, but what is the DB update for? (I mean, if we're letting mythtv do all the DB work, why do we care where the db update is)
[16:34:03] tgm4883: sphery: also if I had to guess, it's done this way because we also patch out the no tuner check so we can start the backend up
[16:34:25] tgm4883: https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/mast . . . tuners.patch
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[16:35:21] tgm4883: Reading the comments here, it looks like this was discussed by superm1 some time ago, so I'll defer to him as to why that is the way it is
[16:35:43] sphery: Right, the mythconverg.sql script simply creates the DB (not schema, just a DB) and mythtv user. Then the user runs mythtv-setup (with a completely empty DB) and it creates the DB schema for core MythTV. Then when the frontend is run, it initializes any installed plugins and they create their respective schema components (tables and data).
[16:36:34] sphery: er, mc.sql – https://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/mythtv/database/mc.sql
[16:36:56] sphery: also grants required privs (all + create temp tables)
[16:37:57] sphery: The DB update is required for those who are upgrading from a prior version and just modifies the schema and data to work with the current version of code.
[16:38:29] sphery: as for the changing to allow runnign withoug tuners, I won't comment on that
[16:38:36] tgm4883: ah ok, which is why we need mythtv-setup ran after an upgrade
[16:38:46] tgm4883: so if that was moved out, we could just make it part of the packaging
[16:39:17] sphery: mythbackend on the master backend host will also do a DB upgrade
[16:39:39] tgm4883: ok
[16:40:11] sphery: but mythbackend won't run without capture cards defined, so for an initial DB, mythtv-setup needs run to specify a) that it's the master backend and b) at least one capture card
[16:41:03] tgm4883: sphery: it does for us
[16:41:18] sphery: well, it doesn't exit, but it doesn't do anything, either :)
[16:41:27] tgm4883: true
[16:41:47] sphery: so the user still has to shut it down, define capture cards, then restart it
[16:43:27] sphery: anyway, those extra bits you're inserting aren't required for that patch--and are just putting some unnecessary (and in some cases bad/buggy) data in place
[16:43:37] tgm4883: sphery: which segues nicely into, how is the work on the backend to start without tuners and web config going?
[16:44:04] jams: i thought the plan was to remove the check in the future
[16:44:08] sphery: hehe, I wish it were further along :)
[16:44:49] sphery: not to mention splitting out things so that proper tunerless "backend" functionality would work right
[16:44:49] jams: we went the route of adding a dummy card, as I think it gives the user more of an idea of how things should look
[16:45:36] tgm4883: jams: I think a dummy card makes sense, provided we could also ship a demo video file
[16:46:03] sphery: (i.e. take jobqueue out of mbe and run mythjobqueue, take file streaming out of mbe and use mythmediastream, ...), take scheduling out of mbe and run mythscheduler, and take recording out of mbe and run mythrecorder
[16:46:27] jams: yes..we did that at one point but stopped due to size
[16:46:37] tgm4883: sphery: is there a page somewhere to track the progress of the web setup?
[16:46:49] tgm4883: jams: what video were you shipping?
[16:47:05] sphery: then you guys could just run mythupgradedb from packager script, then start mythtvd (mythtv daemon runner) and it would start the right pieces, and not mythrecorder since there are no capture cards, yet)
[16:47:09] tgm4883: Currently in our testing instructions I have people download a blender trailer
[16:47:23] tgm4883: sphery: that would be nice
[16:47:24] jams: tgm4883, some really old commerical that was no longer copyright
[16:47:48] sphery: not sure where best to track progress on web setup
[16:47:51] jams: low quality for sure
[16:50:04] tgm4883: sphery: any idea on the difficulty of getting into mythtv programming from python?
[16:50:57] sphery: in theory you guys could make your own low-res, small mpeg-2 video that just said something like Mythbuntu 14.04 or LinHES or whatever
[16:51:40] jams: sphery sure..I wanted to have the old style color bars with countdown. Never got around to making it
[16:51:50] tgm4883: sphery: I'd rather just ship a 7M sintel trailer http://download.blender.org/durian/trailer/
[16:52:02] tgm4883: 720p mp5
[16:52:04] sphery: at least that's more interesting :)
[16:52:09] tgm4883: yep
[16:53:25] sphery: tgm4883: the main difficulty in getting into mythtv programming is probably getting to know the existing code... C/C++ is a hurdle, too, but there's a lot of existing code that new code has to fit in with, so I'd say that's the primary hurdle
[16:53:46] tgm4883: bummer
[17:00:41] tgm4883: can the dummy tuner be pointed at a ogg file?
[17:00:59] tgm4883: I've not tried that particular type
[17:01:28] sphery: it was only created for mpeg-2 but may or may not work with others
[17:07:16] sphery: FWIW, here's a nice guide on creating a video from an image or images: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Create%20a%20vid . . . rom%20images
[17:07:55] sphery: I created a 30s video of white background with mythbuntu.org's logo in the center and it was 1,150,976 bytes.
[17:08:24] sphery: though you could do 30 images with a countdown in similar amoutn of space or whatever
[17:08:37] tgm4883: sphery: I just found out there is a ubuntu one already in our repo that is pretty nice
[17:08:45] sphery: cool
[17:09:25] tgm4883: Ideally I'd like to do something nicer and more Mythbuntu, but if the backend can read the ogg file then I really can't beat how good this looks at 6M
[17:09:44] tgm4883: especially for the amount of work I'd have to do to use it (practically no work :) )
[17:09:53] sphery: anyway, gotta go... thanks for looking into that DB init script stuff--if nothing else, getting the extra data out would be good since some of it will cause buggy behaviors
[17:10:05] sphery: (and explains why some users have said, "I don't have a default recording template."  :)
[17:10:22] sphery: hehe, true--and no work is good
[17:11:06] jams: no work with good results is always the goal
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[17:32:53] stuartm: the DLNA format profiles are both extremely specific, great in number and yet frustratingly they don't apply to many real world videos :(
[17:34:05] dekarl: and if you announce the wrong one, does it still play?
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[17:34:49] esperegu: PHP Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '[' in /usr/share/mythtv/mythweb/includes/defines.php on line 13
[17:34:55] stuartm: dekarl: with most clients, yes, but not all
[17:36:43] stuartm: as it is, I'm wrestling with the problem of knowing what codec a recording uses without having to inspect the actual file – think that's a lost cause and that the sooner we create the videofilemetadata table and associated tool to populate it the better
[17:37:23] stuartm: will have to be the very next thing I do
[17:38:25] stuartm: it's a big job though, every recorder will need to populate the info when the recording starts, mythtranscode will need to update it etc
[17:56:13] dekarl: +1 on keeping track of such in the database
[17:58:03] kormoc: esperegu, is that head?
[17:59:58] sphery: esperegu: is that the "update array format for PHP 5.<whatever>" but that's in trac?
[18:00:24] sphery: #12249
[18:00:24] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12249 **
[18:01:04] kormoc: oh jeeze. I'm so far behind in new php stuff
[18:09:47] esperegu: sphery: aha. thx. had not seen that indeed.
[18:09:54] esperegu: why is it not commited yet? ;-)
[18:10:23] esperegu: kormoc: I use the 0.28 repository
[18:17:22] kormoc: there is no 0.28 yet, is there?
[18:18:22] dekarl: there is no 0.28.0 release, correct
[18:18:44] dekarl: its the development version
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[18:36:02] esperegu: kormoc: https://launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/+archive/ubuntu/0.28
[18:36:36] tgm4883: esperegu: that is the development version and technically doesn't exist
[18:37:59] kormoc: "You can update your system with unsupported packages from this untrusted PPA"
[18:39:22] tgm4883: also from our FAQ "Which build should I pick" Most people will want to select the most current released MythTV version. This version contains fixes as it is built from the fixes branch upstream. (Please see MythTV.org to find the current released version).
[18:41:29] tgm4883: equally, if not more important
[18:41:39] tgm4883: From MCC Warning: You have selected the MythTV version currently in development!!
[18:41:39] tgm4883: If you select this version, it is recommended that you subscribe to the <a href="snip">mythtv developer</a> and <a href="snip">mythtv commits</a> mailing lists and be prepared for severe breakage. If you wish to continue please enter YouMustBeThisTallToRide below for the development version password.
[18:42:05] esperegu: tgm4883: =)
[18:42:18] esperegu: tgm4883: its the only version that works for me ;-)
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[18:53:18] dekarl: esperegu: kormoc: hmm https://code.mythtv.org/trac/attachment/ticke . . . efines.patch ?
[18:54:28] dekarl: oh, sphery beat me to it
[18:55:06] ** dekarl goes back under his rock **
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[19:05:53] stuarta: tgm4883: at some point we will need to allow backend startup with no tuners, so that we can configure the whole backend through the backend webserver
[19:06:36] tgm4883: stuarta: this is true, IIRC the only reason you don't is because the backend only reads certain things on startup right?
[19:08:56] stuarta: iirc it's something like that
[19:09:11] stuarta: in theory relatively simple to fix
[19:10:20] tgm4883: in theory, but you need someone with the time and knowhow to do it
[19:14:25] stuarta: it's more an iterative process.
[19:19:45] stuarta: well i've added some ansible playbooks for mythtv & buildslave setup. comments are welcome https://github.com/MythTV/ansible
[19:22:43] tgm4883: How often does https://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/mythtv/database/mc.sql change? It seems like we could just create the DB and leave it empty and we wouldn't need to update it
[19:23:34] stuarta: backend won't startup without an initial schema iirc
[19:23:52] tgm4883: stuarta: right, but that gets created by mythtv-setup
[19:24:04] tgm4883: mc.sql is just a very very bare db with permissions setup
[19:24:33] stuarta: it's been a while since i looked at that
[19:24:41] tgm4883: stuarta: I'm investigating ripping out our mysql db stuff and running mythtv-setup on first boot
[19:24:45] stuarta: what we need is a --bootstrap option to the backend
[19:24:57] tgm4883: or rather, run mythtv-setup if the db hasn't been setup yet
[19:25:15] stuarta: ie. mythbackend --bootstrap --dbname xx --dbuser xx --dbpasswd xx
[19:25:30] stuarta: creates and initializes the DB
[19:25:48] tgm4883: stuarta: does that help me as a packager though?
[19:26:06] stuarta: well it would
[19:26:34] stuarta: in your postinstall you run bootstrap, so the backend is ready to startup and accept configuration via the web interface
[19:27:20] tgm4883: yea that would work
[19:27:54] stuarta: sadly we are currently at conceptual idea stage :(
[19:28:04] tgm4883: yea
[19:28:26] stuarta: but at least you have an idea of direction here
[19:37:11] tgm4883: stuarta: on the other hand, isn't the idea to move to an internal mysql db?
[19:37:38] stuarta: bootstrapping doesn't preclude this
[20:00:23] tgm4883: hmm
[20:01:05] tgm4883: sphery: the issue with installing the bare DB is I don't see any easy way for us to configure our defaults (eg. theme, storage groups)
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[20:15:09] stuartm: OpenCableVideo << Anyone know what that is? (mpegtables.h StrreamID enum)
[20:16:27] stuartm: https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/858e8fd7
[20:23:13] stuarta: it would be a stream identifying type
[20:23:25] stuarta: is it giving trouble?
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[20:28:37] stuartm: stuarta: heh, no I meant does anyone know what codec it refers to
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[20:29:36] stuartm: mapping between StreamID and AVCodecID, but I can't find any trace of OpenCableVideo relating to a codec
[20:29:51] stuarta: it wouldn't necessarily be a codec, that stuff is used by the stream identification code to decide if we have any video streams in the recording
[20:30:11] stuartm: it's a pseudo 'standard' used in the US based on SCTE but no codecs are mentioned in what I've found
[20:30:56] stuartm: stuarta: true ...
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[20:32:01] stuartm: ack, well I'll leave it mapped to AV_CODEC_ID_NONE and someone else can figure out how to handle it
[20:36:48] stuarta: well it's entirely possible it was put there as a place holder and never needed implementing
[20:39:18] stuartm: ah-hah, ln 49 mpegtables.cpp
[20:39:43] stuartm: if (OpenCableVideo == stream_id) return MPEG2Video;
[20:40:54] stuarta: :)
[20:43:15] stuartm: actually from that it would seem the OpenCableVideo value wouldn't be propagated to the code I've added, but I still have to handle it or static analysis will moan
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[21:09:00] dekarl: tgm4883: what's the trick to teach mcc on 12.04 about the fixes/0.27 PPA? https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?p=1518#p1518
[21:27:42] tgm4883: dekarl: just a sec
[21:30:11] tgm4883: dekarl: they need to click the "refresh" button
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[22:51:57] stichnot: yay, #12256 sample explicitly comes from a torrent site...
[22:51:57] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12256 **
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