| Friday, August 8th, 2014, 00:04 UTC | ||
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| [05:36:12] | caelor: | stuarta epel for centos7 is still lacking some things too – nsd was missing last time I looked. Completely agree about ansible though. Have you seen https://www.zigg.com/2013/yum-repository-boot . . . ansible.html ? |
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| [06:23:41] | stuarta: | caelor: yes i've seen things like that, i'm going 1 step up, and pulling the rpms containing the repo data from the repo site |
| [06:24:00] | stuarta: | conditionally, if they aren't already installed ;-) |
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| [15:39:52] | gigem_: | In case anyone's interested, perhaps jya since he's our current expert on ffmpeg, there's a debate going on about reintroducing ffmpeg into Debian along side libav (https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/08/threads.html). Personally, I think the whole thing is kind of silly. Debian bends over backwards to support multiple, competing versions of just about everything else, but draws a line between libav |
| [15:39:54] | gigem_: | and ffmpeg. Anyway, the relevant thing is that mythtv comes up in the discussion often enough, that I'm tempted to jump in to correct the misinformation. I then remember why I quit being a Debian developer some 15 years ago after being one from pretty much the beginning in '94. I got tired of all of the politics that goes along with it. |
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| [16:08:47] | stuartm: | if I were to sign up it would be to tell that packager to stop using the MythTV trademark for his packages, since what he's shipping isn't MythTV |
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| [18:21:08] | gigem: | stuartm: :) or should that be :( . It's amazing how some people gloss over or outright ignore the fact that even if stock ffmpeg and libav had stable APIs, they don't have all of the functionality that mythtv requires. |
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| [19:28:06] | stuartm: | IIRC some of the functionality we've added supports important features here in the UK, like Interactive TV (MHEG) and DVB subtitles |
| [19:28:46] | stuartm: | without the MHEG there's no iPlayer etc |
| [19:29:20] | stuartm: | but I guess the packager doesn't like in the UK, so whatever he uses works and that's means it's OK |
| [19:31:00] | stuartm: | we would be perfectly within our rights to insist that they don't use the MythTV name, it's the same situation as Firefox – the debian packagers refused to stop messing with the code, so Mozilla refused to let them use the Firefox branding |
| [19:32:20] | superm1: | in general the debian stance tends to be if you're needing to be forking code to add features to it you should push to get those features in the project you had to fork |
| [19:32:50] | stuartm: | it's a waste of time trying to argue with them though, in their world packagers > developers |
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| [19:51:44] | gigem: | stuartm: Right. Who cares about those live TV users in Europe? I think our changes also include some subtitle fixes and/or additions. superm1: perhaps things have changed in ffmpeg, but yeah, what are you supposed to do when upstream won't take your changes or add the equivalent functionality themselves. |
| [19:52:24] | superm1: | idk, i guess depends on if their objection is moral or technical |
| [20:02:20] | gigem: | That was meant to be rhetorical. Not being a package anymore, though, I'd do what we did — quit wasting our own time and provide exactly what we need ourselves. |
| [20:03:16] | Chutt: | i mostly brought it in originally to minimize the constant api breakages |
| [20:03:31] | Chutt: | then it was rather nice because dealing with them for patches wasn't working at all |
| [20:04:36] | stuarta: | Chutt: nice to see you :) |
| [20:05:03] | Chutt: | hi :p |
| [20:12:02] | gigem: | Chutt: I think both ffmpeg and libav are more aware of API stability, so that's probably not as good of an argument anymore. The missing functionality is a big one, though, IMO. |
| [20:12:55] | Chutt: | sure, but that's the historical reason, which can trump a lot of other arguments |
| [20:13:03] | Chutt: | time to change it is high |
| [20:27:33] | stuartm: | they still change their API frequently, look at all the deprecated code warnings in master – at least they are deprecating it before removing it |
| [20:28:49] | stuartm: | by including it we at least get to manage the migration from old to new API in our own time, and perhaps just as importantly, we don't leave users on slightly older versions of their distribution behind each time we switch to a newer API |
| [20:33:36] | stuartm: | it's certainly worth discussing whether we make another, even harder push to get our changes upstream, but IMHO there will always be value in maintaining our copy of ffmpeg since video and audio playback is core to MythTV and being able to get fixes from unreleased versions of FFmpeg back into our current stable release is important for the best user experience |
| [20:34:46] | stuartm: | it's all very well Debian complaining that it increases their work when backporting security fixes (which aren't especially relevant for FFmpeg) but they aren't interested in doing the same for bug fixes |
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| [23:25:56] | dblain: | stuartm: not sure if you saw the message I sent you a few days ago. This diff: http://pastebin.com/ENqkESXH shows what it takes to add an enum to the services api. I wanted your opinion about the approach I took before I spend any time retrofiting to all services/data contracts. One down side to the approach is that all languages would need a translation for all constants in the enum otherwise |
| [23:25:56] | dblain: | it shows up as class.enum.name |
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