| Saturday, June 28th, 2014, 00:05 UTC | ||
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| [09:04:48] | stuartm: | http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2014-4030 |
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| [09:40:37] | JohnBergqvist: | Anyone here with experience with Freesat streams (at a technical level) |
| [09:40:55] | JohnBergqvist: | i'm trying to help with this bug https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12193 |
| [09:41:29] | JohnBergqvist: | Im sure there must be a packet/flag somewhere in the freesat stream that tells the reciever to output in 5.1 surround sound where appropriate |
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| [17:40:25] | JohnBergqvist: | Is there anyone here who uses Freesat in the UK, and knows what I mean when I say that the audio signal being transmitted can change from 2.0 to 5.1 on the fly? |
| [17:41:06] | JohnBergqvist: | Or Freeview HD, as I know that does it too |
| [17:52:17] | JohnBergqvist: | Arghhhhh god why does no one understand what i'm saying?!! |
| [17:58:00] | JohnBergqvist: | It's not about my reciever, it's what mythtv is interpreting |
| [17:58:00] | JohnBergqvist: | argh |
| [17:58:22] | JohnBergqvist: | but no, you're just shut down... |
| [18:02:19] | dekarl1: | JohnBergqvist: a quick search on our bug tracker showed up a bunch of tickets wrt switching forth/back between 2.0 and 5.1 wihtin the same audio stream |
| [18:02:23] | dekarl1 is now known as dekarl | |
| [18:02:27] | JohnBergqvist: | yeah, sorry, that's the one |
| [18:03:03] | JohnBergqvist: | basically, even when i was using a 5.1 speaker setup, the frontend fialed to detect whenever the stream changed from one to the other |
| [18:03:18] | JohnBergqvist: | so you could be watching a program that had started, which was still in 2.0 |
| [18:03:38] | JohnBergqvist: | but if you exited and restarted live tv, it would then pick up that it was in 5.1... |
| [18:04:30] | JohnBergqvist: | both in terms of what the OSD was showing, and what came out of the speakers, and how many channels Playback data said there were |
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| [18:06:00] | JohnBergqvist: | Problem is it's difficult to capture where there actually should be transisiton, cos it's never advertised in the guide data |
| [18:06:31] | JohnBergqvist: | Whad do you think? |
| [18:06:53] | dekarl: | e.g. https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10079 |
| [18:07:09] | JohnBergqvist: | Ohhh, that's the problem |
| [18:07:13] | JohnBergqvist: | someone else has reported it |
| [18:07:19] | JohnBergqvist: | it's not just BBC anymore though |
| [18:07:41] | JohnBergqvist: | in my case it didn't break the stream, the frontend just never registered the change |
| [18:07:54] | caelor: | that bug is also closed as fixed |
| [18:08:21] | JohnBergqvist: | true |
| [18:08:36] | caelor: | I use freesat and haven't noticed any issues, but I'm also not specifically looking for 5.1 (I'm presuming stereo continues to be broadcast alongside) |
| [18:08:50] | JohnBergqvist: | Well, you wouldn't notice it |
| [18:09:08] | JohnBergqvist: | you have to specifically look for it |
| [18:09:24] | JohnBergqvist: | Like today, BBC1 were showing bargain hunt (in stereo) followed by Wimbledon (in 5.1) |
| [18:09:40] | caelor: | so I suspect the lack of apparent "support" for you bug is that for most people there's no apparent breakage (you've got to be specifically wanting 5.1, rather than being happy with stereo) |
| [18:09:43] | dekarl: | JohnBergqvist: btw, something is messed up with your install "Plugin mythmusic (0.27.20131107–1) binary version does not match libraries (0.27.20140520–1)" |
| [18:09:52] | JohnBergqvist: | I don't have mythmusic installed |
| [18:10:03] | JohnBergqvist: | maybe i removed it incorrectly |
| [18:10:14] | JohnBergqvist: | True, but it's still a bug caelor. |
| [18:10:15] | dekarl: | looks like there's an older copy still floating about somewhere? |
| [18:10:19] | JohnBergqvist: | yeah |
| [18:10:39] | JohnBergqvist: | Basically, the audio should switch on the fly whenever the audio changes from 5.1 to stereo |
| [18:11:00] | caelor: | agreed, but I sensed your frustration at a lack of other people supporting your bug report, and was offering an explanation as to why that might be |
| [18:11:05] | JohnBergqvist: | true |
| [18:11:32] | JohnBergqvist: | well his response (if you look at my bug ticket, was that it was cos I only had stereo speakers at the time... |
| [18:11:51] | JohnBergqvist: | thats my bug https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12193 |
| [18:12:30] | JohnBergqvist: | the way to notice the change is this: if you're watching livetv and it switches to a 5.1 program, yet the audio is still in stereo, playback data still shows stereo,and so does OSD. |
| [18:12:43] | JohnBergqvist: | then exit LiveTV and go back into it, suddenly the same program is shown as 5.1 |
| [18:13:35] | JohnBergqvist: | It's a subtle problem, but annoying because it'll happen with every recording, because you'd capture pre-roll beforehand, which would only be in stereo. |
| [18:13:36] | dekarl: | JohnBergqvist: did you update your graphics driver around the time the issue appeared? |
| [18:13:45] | JohnBergqvist: | which issue? mythmusic? |
| [18:13:58] | dekarl: | what music? |
| [18:14:04] | JohnBergqvist: | which issue is this? |
| [18:14:13] | JohnBergqvist: | the audio issues? |
| [18:14:21] | dekarl: | the "mythtv thinks you want 5.1->stereo downmix" issue |
| [18:14:34] | JohnBergqvist: | No, I don't think that's the issue |
| [18:15:04] | JohnBergqvist: | but i have updated my graphics drivers throughout, and the issue does not change |
| [18:15:06] | JohnBergqvist: | Nvidia btw |
| [18:15:18] | dekarl: | yes, and audio via the HDMI connector... |
| [18:15:37] | JohnBergqvist: | But the issue still happens when i watch through my non-hdmi surround sound system |
| [18:16:22] | JohnBergqvist: | I think people are mis-interpreting what the issue is.... |
| [18:17:11] | caelor: | I suspect that your configuration is possibly clouding the issue you are reporting. If you look at 18:13:48.916165 in the log you provided on the ticket, myth is reporting that even though it's picked up a 5.1 audio stream, it's downmixing it to stereo |
| [18:17:35] | JohnBergqvist: | yeah, well thats fine, because that program *was* a 5.1 stream |
| [18:17:49] | JohnBergqvist: | i never uploaded a sample where the audio changes mid way through |
| [18:18:43] | caelor: | the responses you've had in the ticket indicate that myth is detecting you have a stereo output device, so it's possible that the problem you're reporting is being misunderstood (and seeming like you're reporting myth outputting stereo to a surround system, rather than handling switching of audio sources) |
| [18:18:54] | JohnBergqvist: | The issue is "MythTV doesn't check that the audio has changed from 2.0 and 5.1 mid-way through, so still treats it as if it were a stereo stream" |
| [18:19:59] | caelor: | think of it this way – as far as myth is concerned, your actual audio output is stereo. Your expectation is that when a 5.1 stream becomes available, that myth switches to it, and downmixes to stereo (as per your specific configuration) |
| [18:20:14] | caelor: | but what you're seeing is that it remains on the 2.0 audio channel |
| [18:21:16] | caelor: | if you have the ability to provide a log where the output is configured to a 5.1 (or greater) device, it should reduce some of the potential for confusion |
| [18:22:26] | JohnBergqvist: | yes |
| [18:22:28] | JohnBergqvist: | I've done that now |
| [18:24:11] | caelor: | I can't speak for the designed behaviour of myth, but I'd say it would be reasonable for the audio channel switching behaviour to be dependent on output configuration (some users for example aren't going to care about 5.1 if they can only handle stereo – why switch to a 5.1 channel if it's just going to be downmixed?) |
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| [18:24:24] | JohnBergqvist: | well thats the only channel though |
| [18:24:53] | JohnBergqvist: | freesat does have an 2.0 MP2 audio channel, but that's specifically flagged as audio narration |
| [18:25:05] | JohnBergqvist: | so the only english channel is the 5.1/2.0 hybrid one |
| [18:25:20] | JohnBergqvist: | But the whole "myth is downmixing it" thing is not relevant here as we're not at that stage yet... |
| [18:25:28] | caelor: | maybe I'm misunderstanding then – so after the 2.0 -> 5.1 switch, you end up with no audio until you restart playback from a bookmark (or similar)? |
| [18:25:39] | JohnBergqvist: | No, the audio just remains in stereo |
| [18:26:13] | JohnBergqvist: | it just never switches over to 5.1 (I presume it just continues playing the Front L& R channels throughout |
| [18:26:19] | caelor: | right. but it's a 5.1 stream. if the 2.0 channel goes away, and a 5.1 channel replaces it, if myth wasn't handling the transition, you'd end up with no audio |
| [18:27:15] | JohnBergqvist: | On XBMC (who's frontend detects it fine on live tv, even when coming from a myth backend), theres a slight blip and the rear speakers come into life |
| [18:27:24] | JohnBergqvist: | on mythtv it just continues playing stereo regardless |
| [18:28:05] | JohnBergqvist: | unless i exit live tv and re-enter it, at which point it rescans the audio, and says "Oh, this is a 5.1 stream, i'll output it to all speakers" |
| [18:29:38] | JohnBergqvist: | I've noticed that when a program goes *back* from 5.1 to 2.0 on mythfrontend, the rear speakers go silent, but mythtv still thinks it's a 5.1 stream with 6 channels (just that the 4 extra ones happen to be silent) |
| [18:30:29] | JohnBergqvist: | But when going TO 5.1, mythtv isn't even attempting to transmit to those 4 extra speakers, as it's assuming it's in 2.0 throughout... |
| [18:30:42] | JohnBergqvist: | so I just only hear the Front L&R outputs |
| [18:30:55] | caelor: | I think the best way forward would be to record something you'd expect to be in 5.1, with a pre-roll which should capture 2.0 data. You'll also need to provide the exact configuration of the frontend from setup -> audio in the frontend, and logs with the verbosity jya mentioned |
| [18:31:03] | JohnBergqvist: | Yup |
| [18:31:46] | JohnBergqvist: | I'll record that, with a 2.0 pre-roll, then exit the live tv and re-enter it (which'll triger myth to detect that it's in 5.1) |
| [18:31:52] | JohnBergqvist: | that should show what i'm trying to say... |
| [18:32:12] | caelor: | from what you're describing it sounds more like a case of myth handling the 2.0 -> 5.1 transition (otherwise you'd have no audio), but there sounds to be some issue with mapping channels and/or upmixing (which is why the audio config is important) |
| [18:32:26] | dekarl: | I'd try to get rid of the mixup of old and new binaries before continuing with the logs... |
| [18:32:27] | JohnBergqvist: | well ive turned upmixing off in MythTV |
| [18:32:34] | JohnBergqvist: | how do I do that dekarl? |
| [18:32:44] | JohnBergqvist: | basically I used to have mythmusic installed, but then I removed it |
| [18:34:19] | caelor: | unfortunately the subtleties between hdmi stereo output, hdmi bitstreaming, 5.1 discrete output, upmixing (or not), etc could be coming into play. |
| [18:35:22] | JohnBergqvist: | right, just to clarify, I will be doing this solely, through a 5.1 connection |
| [18:35:32] | JohnBergqvist: | no hdmi or bitstreaming right now |
| [18:35:38] | dekarl: | JohnBergqvist: e.g. run "locate mythmusic|grep so$" and see what it finds, then clean up files that are "old" |
| [18:35:41] | JohnBergqvist: | i think that middied the picture |
| [18:35:54] | dekarl: | over here it finds /usr/lib/mythtv/plugins/libmythmusic.so (Mythbuntu) |
| [18:36:07] | caelor: | it would probably be helpful to include a full description of the configuration with each test case you give us |
| [18:36:28] | JohnBergqvist: | OK cheers |
| [18:36:34] | JohnBergqvist: | well it'll take me a few days. |
| [18:36:48] | JohnBergqvist: | I need to find a free space that i can mess about with recordings etc. |
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| [18:38:27] | caelor: | that's fine. I'd suggest posting pastebins here ahead of raising another ticket (given the last one is locked) – that way we can try and get the information as complete as possible in one shot |
| [18:39:24] | caelor: | dialogue over tickets to try and clarify things is fragmented at best, so lets continue this in a few days when you've got the information |
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| [18:54:40] | JohnBergqvist: | yeah |
| [18:56:30] | JohnBergqvist: | I rarely post here cos no-one else does :P |
| [18:56:32] | JohnBergqvist: | or tends to |
| [19:08:23] | JohnBergqvist: | I mean, does Mythfrontend check at all if the audio changes mid-stream, once it's detected what format/channels the audio is in at the start of playback? |
| [19:09:35] | JohnBergqvist: | I mean I would assume that there's some flag in the stream somewhere that instructs whatever reciever it is to treat the audio track as now being in 5.1 (and then deal with it how it see fits, which i'm sure myth does that bit fine) |
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| [20:50:22] | JohnBergqvist: | and of course, if we do solve this bug in livetv, how will it affect recordings? |
| [20:50:58] | JohnBergqvist: | Can the majority of players handle an audiotrack that changes not only it's amount of audio channels but also it's frequency (from 192 to 384 I believe) mid-way through? |
| [20:51:14] | caelor: | there iis a presence and discussion in this channel, but its primary purpose is for developers to discuss and coordinate their development efforts – technically an argument could be made for the early discussion of bugs to be on #mythtv-users |
| [20:52:04] | caelor: | my understanding is that an audio channel is basically a bitstream in the transport. changing parameters such as bitrate and number of channels would basically require one channel to cease and another to start |
| [20:52:46] | caelor: | VBR audio encoding is an obvious caveat to that (although I'd expect switching between CBR and VBR to require a stream change) |
| [20:54:18] | caelor: | the fact that there's continued audio is why I believe that the playback code detects the stream change, but that there is possibly some umix/mapping following that change |
| [20:55:21] | caelor: | I'm happy to help further define the observed behaviour, and expected, and hopefully articulate what may need modifying. I'm not a dev, but I'd prefer to help get the groundwork done to help the devs focus more on progressing the code |
| [21:01:43] | caelor: | and in answer, the behaviour between recordings and livetv would be the same – at the level this is handled, it's just a stream being sent to playback code. Even livetv is staged onto disk like a recording |
| [21:07:49] | t0mahawk: | for the web frontend what is the lowest browser version we want to support? |
| [21:09:34] | caelor: | stuartm probably has the definitive answer, but my memory is the discussion was that we should be able to exercise HTML5 technologies, so i'd suggest current generation browsers. |
| [21:10:19] | caelor: | there'll probably be an expectation for core functionality (e.g. current mythweb capabilities) to be as universally available as possible |
| [21:12:49] | caelor: | for the best user experience, if the browser can't support a feature, it shouldn't be offered, or should cleanly degrade |
| [21:12:53] | t0mahawk: | ok, I want to be able to use vh in some css |
| [21:13:00] | t0mahawk: | which should be most modern browsers |
| [21:13:42] | t0mahawk: | IE >9 |
| [21:14:00] | caelor: | that may have issues with reasonably common Android browsers: http://caniuse.com/viewport-units |
| [21:14:35] | stuartm: | t0mahawk: for IE, it's 11, for the rest since they are all freely available I'd say current gen, in practice based purely on what I've currently got installed FF 24+, Opera 12.16+, Chromium/Chrome 34 etc |
| [21:14:41] | t0mahawk: | ahhh fair enough, looks like I will fallback to a fixed size then |
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| [21:15:11] | stuartm: | Opera is the odd one out since they've discontinued linux support and it will eventually have to be left behind, but it's still my main browser so ... |
| [21:15:15] | t0mahawk: | ok, I will play around with a efw things, I almost have the video gallery done |
| [21:15:34] | t0mahawk: | At least to a point where I'll submit a pull request and others can help polish it |
| [21:16:18] | t0mahawk: | I want the detail to be a popup like mythbuntu video gallery, I am just struggling with getting a good height on the div because it isn't contained in anything |
| [21:16:26] | t0mahawk: | so I either have to use a fixed size or vh |
| [21:16:33] | t0mahawk: | unless you all have any other suggestions |
| [21:16:48] | stuartm: | I don't want to clutter up things with workarounds for old browsers, there's really little excuse for people using them – some old phones being the exception and only where the user isn't able to upgrade or install something more current |
| [21:17:33] | t0mahawk: | Right I agree, and the height issue I am having now really only effects mobile users in landscape mode |
| [21:18:03] | wagnerrp: | maybe those phones would work better if they were put in a freezer... |
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| [21:19:05] | caelor: | mobile users have the alternative of an app (at least in android) |
| [21:19:44] | t0mahawk: | I havent seen the app, what is it called? |
| [21:19:58] | stuartm: | for mobile we may end up with a different set of rules entirely, I know some of the stuff we've got now doesn't work so well on a small phone sized screen but I was going to come back to tweaking for mobiles when I'd got most of the functionality in place |
| [21:20:16] | peper03: | JohnBergqvist: I just tried your sample. My box is hooked up to my surround sound decoder and I hear the very brief dropout as the stream changes from 2.0 to 5.1. I normally have MythTV upmix stereo to 5.1 and at the changeover the rear speakers go quite. Later, during the announcements, I can hear the background noise through the rear speakers but not the announcements, which are coming from the front (or just centre, I didn't check). |
| [21:20:44] | JohnBergqvist: | which sample? the wimbledon one? |
| [21:20:45] | caelor: | mythtv frontend: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mythtv |
| [21:20:47] | t0mahawk: | ok I will work under the same pretense then, and get it all up and working |
| [21:20:58] | peper03: | If I change my settings so as not to upmix stereo, I see the display on the surround sound decoder change. |
| [21:21:02] | peper03: | Yes, Wimbledon. |
| [21:21:05] | JohnBergqvist: | ok |
| [21:21:08] | caelor: | albeit when I tried to use it, I wasn't able to get ti working, but that's an issue to take up with the app dev |
| [21:21:15] | JohnBergqvist: | what about the OSD? and what about Myth's playback data page, does that change? |
| [21:21:32] | t0mahawk: | right and that was my interest, was it an official app |
| [21:22:00] | stuartm: | t0mahawk: not official exactly, developer did ask for our blessing though |
| [21:22:38] | t0mahawk: | right, I didn't think so, after I help getting the web frontend along, I may work an iOS version unless there are any issues with that |
| [21:22:46] | stuartm: | there's actually a couple of different apps floating around, since I don't use them I can't remember their names or say which is better |
| [21:23:03] | t0mahawk: | Maybe even just a mobile specific skin of the frontend would be useful |
| [21:23:05] | peper03: | That doesn't, but I seem to remember talking with jya about that some time ago because it always shows the number of channels first seen. If I remember correctly, it had something to do with not being able to update the display when digital pass-through is active. |
| [21:23:29] | JohnBergqvist: | lemme check the recording again |
| [21:23:33] | peper03: | Personally, I'd say it would be better in that case to just display something like 'N/A', but I'm not the audio expert. |
| [21:23:38] | JohnBergqvist: | I believe that while the entire wimbledon was transmitted in 5.1 surround sound, the surround channels are silent until the court action starts |
| [21:23:46] | peper03: | Yes. |
| [21:23:52] | caelor: | jy a did suggest that the channels info in the playback data, and the audio subsystem were decoupled |
| [21:24:15] | JohnBergqvist: | can't it just update the info whenever the user calls the osd? |
| [21:24:28] | peper03: | If you trim the beginning off (about the first 200MB) so that the recording starts during Wimbledon, the playback data shows 6 channels. |
| [21:24:28] | JohnBergqvist: | i.e is it value different to what was previosuly detected? |
| [21:24:33] | JohnBergqvist: | *is the value |
| [21:24:44] | caelor: | possibly, although that's aesthetic, and the focus has been on the functionality |
| [21:24:52] | JohnBergqvist: | It's misleading though |
| [21:24:58] | peper03: | If digital passthrough is active, MythTV has no idea about the number of channels because it's not decoding it. |
| [21:25:10] | JohnBergqvist: | Well im not using passthrough |
| [21:25:23] | JohnBergqvist: | it's going to my 5.1 system, which is connected via the 3.5" jacks |
| [21:25:41] | stuartm: | JohnBergqvist: have you configured the audio output as 5.1 or stereo? |
| [21:26:01] | peper03: | I know, but that was the reasoning given to me (if memory serves correctly) why the number of channels is never updated. |
| [21:26:07] | stuartm: | 'Speaker configuration' |
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| [21:27:53] | JohnBergqvist: | 5.1 |
| [21:27:57] | JohnBergqvist: | no upmixing. |
| [21:29:36] | JohnBergqvist: | ahh, you're right, it's working! |
| [21:29:41] | JohnBergqvist: | well, at least audiably it is |
| [21:29:54] | JohnBergqvist: | The playback data is still showing 2 channels though |
| [21:29:56] | JohnBergqvist: | as is the OSD |
| [21:30:05] | caelor: | I wouldn't worry about what the OSD reports – if anything that's a separate issue |
| [21:30:16] | JohnBergqvist: | ok, what about the playback data though |
| [21:30:39] | JohnBergqvist: | (interestingly, the continuity announcement was in 5.1, wasn't expecting that lol) |
| [21:30:40] | caelor: | that is likely the same data as the OSD |
| [21:31:01] | JohnBergqvist: | right |
| [21:31:11] | JohnBergqvist: | well, surely it's incorrect that they're giving an incorrect reading though? |
| [21:31:45] | JohnBergqvist: | cos it sure as hell confused me (especially when jya essentially said "the playback data shows what the actual audio is, before any upmixing etc." |
| [21:31:55] | peper03: | JohnBergqvist: http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/4/2012-12-28:10:25:01 |
| [21:32:09] | caelor: | it's not correct behaviour, no, but it's not a bug in Myth's handling of the audio stream changes, more in reporting the state of playback |
| [21:32:43] | JohnBergqvist: | thats fine |
| [21:32:48] | JohnBergqvist: | I was unsure what it was. |
| [21:32:55] | JohnBergqvist: | Well at least we've narrowed it down :) |
| [21:33:36] | peper03: | The OSD (as in the box you get if you press 'i') shows you what was reported in the programme guide. I've seen stuff marked as surround sound, when it wasn't, and vice-versa. |
| [21:33:37] | JohnBergqvist: | all the audio editors i've tried (when extracting the audio) also report the entire track as being in 2.0 as well, but that's not our problem tbh |
| [21:33:45] | JohnBergqvist: | it can't be the program guide |
| [21:33:50] | JohnBergqvist: | cos what if you have a video file |
| [21:34:16] | JohnBergqvist: | my program guide data never contains any information as to the audio format/channels |
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| [21:34:29] | caelor: | what source do you use? eit or RT? |
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| [21:34:45] | JohnBergqvist: | atlas |
| [21:35:24] | caelor: | through tv_grab_uk_atlas, or indirectly using tv_grab_uk_rt (which sources from atlas data)? |
| [21:35:33] | JohnBergqvist: | tv_grab_uk_atlas |
| [21:36:09] | JohnBergqvist: | I presume the OSD guesses itself if the audio format in the guide data has been left blank right? |
| [21:37:13] | JohnBergqvist: | from the playback data. |
| [21:37:14] | JohnBergqvist: | ? |
| [21:37:32] | caelor: | possibly. I use uk_rt, and seem to have information on expected audio channels – my assumption was that it came from guide data |
| [21:38:26] | JohnBergqvist: | The only information I got on audio was through EIT |
| [21:39:14] | JohnBergqvist: | what field in the database is the audio channels stored in? |
| [21:39:32] | JohnBergqvist: | Oh, audioprop |
| [21:39:45] | JohnBergqvist: | Yeah, all mine are blank where i'm using Atlas (which is all my HD channels anyway) |
| [21:41:14] | peper03: | Sorry, yes, you're right. I was thinking of the data shown in the 'Recordings' screen. I assumed that information was merely shown again in the OSD for a recording, but I've just checked and it appears to be getting the information directly from the file. |
| [21:41:27] | JohnBergqvist: | Which I think is the better approach |
| [21:41:29] | caelor: | ok. If Myth is generating an overall audio channels value covering the whole recording, then I suspect it may just use the number of channels at the start of the file |
| [21:41:34] | JohnBergqvist: | yes |
| [21:41:53] | JohnBergqvist: | it needs to detect whenever it changes and update it, somewhoe |
| [21:41:55] | JohnBergqvist: | *somehow |
| [21:42:18] | caelor: | there'd be different approaches, each with varying complexities – maximum number of channels seen in the file, number of channels for the majority of the time, etc... |
| [21:42:29] | JohnBergqvist: | Well is this for live playback, or recordings? |
| [21:42:54] | caelor: | it's still derived data, and runs the risk of still being wrong. Taking the value from a single point near the start of the file seems like a reasonable compromise to complexity |
| [21:43:05] | JohnBergqvist: | well, it takes it at the very start of the file though |
| [21:43:27] | caelor: | the option for live playback is even more limited – you can only determine it at the start of the file, unless you're continually updating it |
| [21:43:31] | JohnBergqvist: | yeah |
| [21:43:38] | JohnBergqvist: | I know you guy's dont like live tv ;) |
| [21:44:21] | JohnBergqvist: | the problem is, as the track is flagged as having 2 channels itself at the start (even if it may have more) every single audio editor etc. insists its 2 channels |
| [21:44:24] | caelor: | LiveTV is one of the areas of myth that has seen a significant amount of work and improvement for 0.28 |
| [21:44:29] | JohnBergqvist: | good :) |
| [21:44:52] | JohnBergqvist: | and so if you're playing back a recorded file in another player, it may rely on that flag as being correct, even if it isn't. |
| [21:45:11] | caelor: | but the reported number of channels is a very small thing compared to improving the overall livetv function |
| [21:45:12] | JohnBergqvist: | I would say, if the recorded file contains any portions in 5.1 then, flag it as 5.1 throughout |
| [21:45:16] | JohnBergqvist: | true |
| [21:45:23] | JohnBergqvist: | well... |
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| [21:46:15] | JohnBergqvist: | Does anyone know how the audio status is carried in the transport stream? i.e. is there a flag in the program somewhere to indicate that the sound has gone to 5.1 or vice veras? |
| [21:46:18] | JohnBergqvist: | *vice versa |
| [21:46:25] | caelor: | it only informs the user, if the user requests the information (and only a subset of users are likely to appreciate the distinction between 2.0 and 5.1). The audio subsystem does appear to handle it correctly. |
| [21:46:32] | JohnBergqvist: | yeah |
| [21:46:50] | JohnBergqvist: | it does, but the OSD doesn't, neither does it get flagged properly when the file is saved to disk |
| [21:47:07] | caelor: | that's still aesthetic though |
| [21:47:13] | JohnBergqvist: | Also, the XBMC frontend handles switching between 2.0 and 5.1 on the fly, as far as the OSD is concerned, can you not look at their code and see how they do it? |
| [21:47:24] | JohnBergqvist: | It's functional... cos Myth is reporting an incorrect status of the audio |
| [21:47:59] | JohnBergqvist: | We need a mole who works for humax or something :P see how they do it commercailly xD |
| [21:48:02] | JohnBergqvist: | *commercially |
| [21:48:25] | caelor: | the audio subsystem handles the transition correctly (as your test before showed). The bug as it exists is that the OSD and Playback Data don't report the current status of the audio subsystem, and instead report the value at the start of the file |
| [21:48:32] | JohnBergqvist: | yes |
| [21:49:08] | caelor: | functionally, playback correctly switches between 2.0 and 5.1. The bug only affects the information displayed on request. |
| [21:49:48] | JohnBergqvist: | yes |
| [21:49:51] | JohnBergqvist: | I know that now xD |
| [21:49:59] | JohnBergqvist: | im now trying to think of how that could be solved :P |
| [21:50:15] | JohnBergqvist: | whether there's a flag in the program data somewhere that could be read and used to switch the audio over in the OSD |
| [21:50:35] | peper03: | JohnBergqvist: MythTV obviously *does* recognize the change because you see it in the logs. If you read the link I posted, part of the problem is that different configurations can alter what would be displayed. |
| [21:50:46] | JohnBergqvist: | Where do you see it in the logs? |
| [21:50:54] | JohnBergqvist: | I never uploaded a log for that wimbledon one |
| [21:51:12] | JohnBergqvist: | im confused now xD |
| [21:51:14] | peper03: | I played it back and looked in the logs :) |
| [21:51:19] | JohnBergqvist: | ahh ok |
| [21:51:30] | caelor: | I don't believe there is. The reliable source of data is the stream being played back (as listings can be wrong). The correct behaviour would be for the OSD and Playback Data to report the state of the audio subsystem (which is a correction between 2 areas that I'm not sure currently exists) |
| [21:52:11] | JohnBergqvist: | Well, if as pepper says, mythtv notices the change correctly, can you not use that as a trigger to update the osd? |
| [21:52:15] | peper03: | As I understand jya (and like I said, I'm not an audio expert) setting your output to stereo (for example) would prevent you ever seeing more than 2 channels in the OSD. |
| [21:52:19] | caelor: | A secondary aspect might be for audioprop to be updated either while recording, or during playback to correct any inaccurate or missing information about number of channels |
| [21:52:25] | JohnBergqvist: | that is incorrect pepper |
| [21:52:44] | JohnBergqvist: | when my audio input is stereo, the OSD and playback data still shows 5.1 |
| [21:53:29] | JohnBergqvist: | even if the output (as shown in the logs) has been downmixed to stereo |
| [21:53:29] | caelor: | that's because the OSD is reporting the number of channels at start of playback. The audio subsystem is behaving correctly, but the OSD is not reflecting the audio subsystem state |
| [21:53:54] | JohnBergqvist: | We know caelor |
| [21:54:57] | JohnBergqvist: | but yeah, maybe you can use the point at which the audio subsystem detects the change, to use that as a trigger to pass to the OSD? |
| [21:54:58] | peper03: | You said it *doesn't* update to 5.1. If you start playback when only 2.0 is available, the OSD will show 2.0 and never change. If you start playback during 5.1, it will show 5.1 and not change. |
| [21:55:12] | JohnBergqvist: | that's correct |
| [21:55:15] | JohnBergqvist: | yes |
| [21:56:48] | JohnBergqvist: | Can you pastebin the point in the logs where it recognised the change, peper? |
| [21:57:58] | JohnBergqvist: | :) |
| [21:59:00] | JohnBergqvist: | Out of interest, if you encode stereo audio as 5.1, with the extra 4 channels being completely silent, would that add to the filesize at all? |
| [21:59:36] | JohnBergqvist: | (or in any major way?) |
| [22:01:11] | JohnBergqvist: | IMO, i have a theory for how recordings could work, if any portion of the program that's inside the pre and post roll contains 5.1, then mark the entire track as 5.1, otherwise, if no 5.1 data is found within those parts, then flag it as stereo? |
| [22:01:18] | JohnBergqvist: | dunno how that could be done mid-stream though? |
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| [22:01:50] | JohnBergqvist: | and of course that might play havoc with downmixers, trying to merge 4 channels of silence into 2 stereo tracks... |
| [22:03:24] | caelor: | jva – peper03 referred to a conversation about the OSD/Playback Data reporting of number of channels (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mythtv)&nbs p;– where the number of channels at the start of recording is reported, regardless of a subsequent change in the stream (but the audio subsystem tracks the change correctly). This seems to be the underlying fault behind #12193 |
| [22:03:24] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12193 ** | |
| [22:03:51] | caelor: | sorry, that link to the conversation should have been http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/4/2012-12-28:10:25:01 |
| [22:03:58] | JohnBergqvist: | I know |
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| [22:04:38] | peper03: | JohnBergqvist: http://pastebin.com/dP4w0Shy |
| [22:04:59] | JohnBergqvist: | cool |
| [22:05:15] | JohnBergqvist: | is there no way to tell the OSD to update it's audio info from that? |
| [22:05:41] | caelor: | is there any plan for connecting the OSD and Playback Data to report the number of channels the audio subsystem is playing back (or N/A for bitstreaming)? The current display of initial playback data can be misleading |
| [22:06:28] | caelor: | JohnBergqvist that's something that you need someone familiar with the audio subsystem to answer, hence my ping to jy a |
| [22:06:34] | JohnBergqvist: | ahhh OK |
| [22:07:03] | peper03: | jya can comment on that. He pretty much knows the audio side of things inside-out (including all the gotchas that may not be apparent to the rest of us). |
| [22:07:14] | JohnBergqvist: | Well his theory is that the OSD should only report what channels it's actually playing out, based on the user's setup, so if you only have stereo speakers, the OSD will say 2.0 even if you're playing a 5.1 stream |
| [22:07:51] | JohnBergqvist: | yet that's not the case, cos when i watch with stereo speakers only, the OSD still says 5.1 (if i'm watching a full 5.1 track) |
| [22:08:00] | dekarl: | JohnBergqvist: in some territories you get a 2.0 programm with 5.1 ad breaks. also, what is with old mono movies where the 2.0 track contains two copies of the 1.0 track? |
| [22:08:15] | JohnBergqvist: | Dunno about that dekarl |
| [22:08:19] | JohnBergqvist: | I agree, it's confusing... |
| [22:08:27] | JohnBergqvist: | maybe not for livetv, but it is for recordings... |
| [22:08:35] | JohnBergqvist: | cos what do you flag the final track as? |
| [22:08:40] | dekarl: | the easiest is to trust the guide which will tell you mono/stereo/one of the surrounds |
| [22:08:40] | peper03: | It also has to be said that that conversation took place 18 months ago. ffmpeg has certainly been updated since then and it's possible that what jya said then is no longer as true as it was then. |
| [22:08:46] | JohnBergqvist: | Personally i'd rather the OSD shows what the track is, rather than what it's being down-mixed to... |
| [22:09:08] | JohnBergqvist: | or upmixed to |
| [22:10:15] | JohnBergqvist: | cos what if your (you have a stereo system) watching a film that's got a stereo soundtrack and a restored 5.1 soundtrack, but you wanna listen to the 5.1 track? |
| [22:10:31] | JohnBergqvist: | yet cos the OSD is downmixing everything to stereo for you, it'll say stereo regardless |
| [22:10:41] | caelor: | JohnBergqvist – I have my personal preference as well, but I'm not the one writing & maintaining the code, and until I get far enough up to speed to contribute patches to help make my preferences reality, I can only discuss and try and understand the intent of the developers who put the work into the codebase |
| [22:10:47] | JohnBergqvist: | true |
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| [22:11:01] | peper03: | What's the point of selecting a 5.1 track if you've set your output to stereo? |
| [22:11:25] | JohnBergqvist: | well, sometimes movies will have a cleaned up track in 5.1, but an original unmodified source track in stereo |
| [22:11:30] | JohnBergqvist: | which may be hissy etc. |
| [22:11:53] | peper03: | That's a different scenario. Then you have *two* audio tracks. |
| [22:12:20] | JohnBergqvist: | Yes, but Jya said that the OSD should show what the audio has been downmixed to, not what the original souce is.. |
| [22:12:25] | caelor: | it's hard to do the right thing for everyone – if both are available, some will want 5.1 downmix as a priority, others will want 2.0 with no remix. In this instance, the 2.0 ceases and 5.1 starts at program change. |
| [22:12:32] | JohnBergqvist: | I know... |
| [22:12:38] | JohnBergqvist: | but i'm talking about what the OSD shows here |
| [22:12:39] | peper03: | If you have the original 2.0 track selected, why should the OSD show you that a *different* track has more channels? |
| [22:12:39] | rsiebert (rsiebert!~quassel@g225015161.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #mythtv | |
| [22:12:53] | JohnBergqvist: | it shouldn't do |
| [22:13:02] | JohnBergqvist: | hang on |
| [22:13:05] | peper03: | But that's what you said you want. |
| [22:13:05] | JohnBergqvist: | right. |
| [22:13:07] | JohnBergqvist: | No |
| [22:13:11] | JohnBergqvist: | I didn't mean that |
| [22:13:25] | JohnBergqvist: | I said that the OSD should show what the track actually is, not what mythtv is outputting it ias |
| [22:13:26] | JohnBergqvist: | *it as |
| [22:13:34] | JohnBergqvist: | jya said it should be the other way round |
| [22:14:12] | JohnBergqvist: | so that if you have stereo speakers, even if you're listening to a 5.1 track, the OSD should only show stereo. |
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| [22:15:14] | peper03: | I just did a quick test with just the 5.1 part of the Wimbledon test. Even if I have stereo output selected, the OSD still shows 6 channels, so possibly, as I said, things have changed a little since that conversation in 2012. |
| [22:15:15] | JohnBergqvist: | thats what he said on my ticket i filed |
| [22:15:24] | JohnBergqvist: | really? |
| [22:15:26] | JohnBergqvist: | how? |
| [22:15:43] | JohnBergqvist: | whatever point int he file i was, the OSD always showed 2 channels |
| [22:15:59] | peper03: | I cut off the beginning of it. |
| [22:16:04] | caelor: | I'm not sure I read that in the same way on the ticket – my reading of his response is that the OSD display has no bearing on what the audio subsystem is outputting. |
| [22:16:06] | JohnBergqvist: | Ohh, hard cut off? |
| [22:16:09] | JohnBergqvist: | as in altered the file? |
| [22:16:12] | peper03: | Yes. |
| [22:16:20] | JohnBergqvist: | OK. |
| [22:16:40] | JohnBergqvist: | And caelor, don't you think that the OSD should have some bearing on what the audio subsystem is (well not outputting, but reading from the file)? |
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| [22:18:20] | caelor: | no, I think the OSD should report the number of channels in the currently selected output audio stream. E.g. when the 2.0 stream ceases and a 5.1 takes over, then the OSD should change, regardless of audio subsystem state. But that's my opinion, and I'm not in a position to submit a patch to make that happen |
| [22:19:07] | JohnBergqvist: | that's what i meant htough |
| [22:19:27] | JohnBergqvist: | if the stream changes to 5.1, then the audio subsystem state would change as well, right? |
| [22:19:55] | JohnBergqvist: | when I say "audio subsystem" I mean, the actual format of the audio encoded at that present point in the file |
| [22:20:11] | peper03: | I think, ideally, the OSD should show the current state. Maybe it can be changed to do that but until jya responds, everything is just conjecture. Otherwise we're just going round and round in circles. |
| [22:20:14] | caelor: | possibly, possibly not, depending on audio configuration – if bitstreaming is active then the audio subsystem will just be passing a stream without decoding |
| [22:21:20] | JohnBergqvist: | OK |
| [22:21:25] | JohnBergqvist: | i can't comment on bitstreaming tbh |
| [22:21:57] | JohnBergqvist: | I understand it's a complex issue |
| [22:22:23] | caelor: | there should be enough information in this conversation for a response now, so lets give it 24 hours and see where we stand |
| [22:22:54] | JohnBergqvist: | ok |
| [22:23:13] | JohnBergqvist: | he probably hates me now xD I think he was getting annoyed cos of how things got mis-interpreted in the ticket |
| [22:23:43] | JohnBergqvist: | in my opinion though, a solution would be "as soon as the audio-subsystem detects the change, use that as a trigger to update the OSD" |
| [22:23:52] | JohnBergqvist: | or a partial solution |
| [22:24:01] | JohnBergqvist: | bitstreaming might be different then. |
| [22:25:11] | JohnBergqvist: | if that's the case then, we could have a special icon that just says N/A or bistreaming... xD |
| [22:25:12] | JohnBergqvist: | idk |
| [22:28:08] | JohnBergqvist: | but for people who aren't bit-streaming, it would be a start anyway |
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| [23:03:23] | JohnBergqvist: | back |
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| [23:17:54] | MythBuild: | build #1798 of master-ubuntu-12_04-lts-64bit is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/1798 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
| [23:23:49] | MythBuild: | build #5010 of master-freebsd-64bit is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/5010 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
| [23:24:27] | MythBuild: | build #1001 of master-f19–64bit is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/1001 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
| [23:27:02] | MythBuild: | build #1983 of master-linux-64bit-clang is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/1983 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
| [23:27:43] | MythBuild: | build #2340 of master-linux-64bit-icc is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/2340 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
| [23:28:42] | MythBuild: | build #2109 of master-debian-wheezy-64bit is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/2109 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
| [23:30:40] | MythBuild: | build #414 of master-freebsd10–64bit is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . t/builds/414 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
| [23:33:53] | MythBuild: | build #1778 of master-ubuntu-current-64bit is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/1778 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
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| [23:47:42] | RedPenguin: | I am currently away from mythbackend but I have access to a Windows Frontend via VPN, it says 2 tuners for some reason are watching livetv, is there a way to remotely "kick" whatever devices are watching? |
| [23:48:04] | RedPenguin: | A recording is going so I hate to do something like restart the backend |
| [23:50:32] | MythBuild: | build #430 of master-f20–64bit is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . t/builds/430 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
| [23:53:52] | MythBuild: | build #905 of master-fedora-32bit is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . t/builds/905 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
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| [23:56:34] | MythBuild: | build #309 of master-f20-qt5–64bit is complete: Failure [4failed compile plugins] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . t/builds/309 blamelist: Jean-Yves Avenard <jyavenard@mythtv.org > |
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