| Friday, June 20th, 2014, 00:24 UTC | ||
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| [00:39:18] | qu: | I've just installed my mythconverg in another machine, but something's gone queer. |
| [00:39:35] | qu: | The backend can't log in to the database. |
| [00:40:13] | qu: | "Can't log in to database. Would you like to configure the database connection now?" |
| [00:40:37] | qu: | So I go through the configuration, whereupon it again says it can't log in. |
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| [00:53:41] | qu: | "qmysql unable to connect" |
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| [01:12:00] | onexused: | I tried to set up mythtv. I think I did it right. When I run mythfrontend and choose TV>Watch TV, "Please Wait" flashes up for a moment then disappears. It stays at the menu. |
| [01:12:14] | onexused: | The tv tuner card works because I can watch tv with xine. |
| [01:15:35] | onexused: | So what can I try? |
| [01:21:49] | jr3us^: | I refer to the channel topic.. this is a dev channel.. the user channel is #mythtv-users |
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| [01:39:41] | onexused: | oops |
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| [08:09:43] | stuarta: | mrongin all |
| [08:09:50] | stuarta: | er morning all |
| [08:15:41] | jya_: | mrongin to you too |
| [08:15:53] | jya_: | evneing actually |
| [08:21:53] | stuarta: | :) |
| [08:21:55] | xris: | stuarta: you see my note re schedulesdirect and servers? |
| [08:22:17] | xris: | funny that cpinkham mentioned the same thing.. I'm actually surprised none of SD folks mentioned it earlier |
| [08:24:00] | stuarta: | xris: yeah i did, we now have a VM from osuosl, so i'm gunna move stuff over asap and we can be more leisurely about replacing alcor |
| [08:24:12] | xris: | yeah, that's a nice vm from them |
| [08:26:57] | xris: | let me know if I can help. I highly recommend taking a look at #ansible for config management |
| [08:27:19] | stuarta: | there are so many choice it aint funny |
| [08:27:35] | stuarta: | sheesh, my fingers are not connected to my brain today |
| [08:30:11] | xris: | anything's better than modifying files by hand and forgetting what you touched when. |
| [08:30:34] | stuarta: | zim :) |
| [08:30:50] | stuarta: | very very good for making notes |
| [08:31:18] | xris: | yeah, but notes still mean doing things by hand. ansible/chef/puppet means you run a command and things go how they're supposed to. :) |
| [08:31:32] | xris: | anyway, time for me to crash so I'm no more of a zombie at work than usual. later. |
| [08:31:40] | jya_: | anyone would mind if I changed the TV PRogram Guide screen, so SELECT automatically switch to that channel (no need for menu, select option enter) and menu now would display what Select currently offer |
| [08:31:45] | stuarta: | but also a lot of work to setup for a single system |
| [08:32:04] | xris: | ansible's pretty straightforward. it's just plain ssh/python with yml files |
| [08:32:39] | stuarta: | yeah, i've run into it before |
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| [08:37:50] | jya_: | that’s a lot of different possibility in that guide gride ! |
| [08:37:51] | jya_: | Record this showing |
| [08:37:52] | jya_: | Record all showing |
| [08:37:54] | jya_: | Record one showing (this episode) |
| [08:37:55] | jya_: | Record all showing (this channel) |
| [08:37:57] | jya_: | Edit recording rule |
| [08:37:58] | jya_: | Watch this channel |
| [08:38:00] | jya_: | Record this |
| [08:38:01] | jya_: | Recording Option |
| [08:38:01] | jya_: | …. |
| [08:38:04] | jya_: | i’m lost already |
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| [08:39:36] | jya_: | once I create a rule (which i did by accident) it seems impossible to delete it. Deleting it from that menu does absolutely nothing |
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| [08:41:33] | jya_: | weird, it appears it is deleted, but it still shows in the guide |
| [09:08:17] | stuartm: | jya_: change the behaviour in the guide shown when watching livetv? Or the non livetv guide? |
| [09:08:45] | jya_: | stuartm: a change was made so the guide grid appears in the main menu at the top. |
| [09:09:09] | jya_: | what’s being discussed is that this entry, should behave like the TV Guide started from live TV. |
| [09:09:40] | jya_: | that is , Enter select the channel to switch to, no menu shown |
| [09:12:58] | stuartm: | IMHO no, that guide is primarily for scheduling recordings, especially with those who never watch livetv, and that's ignoring for a moment the muscle memory issue which will probably piss off a lot of users – ending up being thrown into livetv when you were trying to schedule a recording ... |
| [09:13:20] | stuartm: | we've always had the option to start LiveTV in the guide, seems to me that's basically what you'd be recreating |
| [09:13:58] | stuarta: | well it's a good thing we don't have a BMC in alcor :) |
| [09:14:07] | stuarta: | EWRONGWINDOW |
| [09:14:17] | stuarta: | http://thehackernews.com/2014/06/bmc-vulnerab . . . servers.html <- the context |
| [09:15:01] | jya_: | stuartm: well, to edit recording you go to recordings |
| [09:15:10] | jya_: | that guide is shown just above to liveTV |
| [09:15:13] | stuartm: | stuarta: Supermicro too |
| [09:15:51] | jya_: | stuartm: you couldn’t start liveTV in the guide until stichnot recent changes |
| [09:15:57] | stuartm: | jya_: which menu theme is this? |
| [09:16:03] | jya_: | the default one |
| [09:16:15] | stuartm: | jya_: the options been there for years (to start livetv in the guide) |
| [09:17:29] | jya_: | not from what I can see. it was added in commit c0c5299ab82f638157b17ba13af154f73c27a40d |
| [09:17:42] | jya_: | Date: Sun Oct 20 15:58:50 2013 -0700 |
| [09:18:07] | stuartm: | no, it was a setting "Always start livetv in the guide" |
| [09:18:34] | jya_: | no.. there was a setting so it would bring up the guide at the start of live TV |
| [09:18:36] | stuartm: | when you selected the "LiveTV" Menu entry it brought up the guide |
| [09:18:43] | stuartm: | right, exactly |
| [09:18:48] | jya_: | yes, but it would have started liveTV first |
| [09:18:50] | stuartm: | that's what I'm talking about |
| [09:18:54] | stuartm: | yes |
| [09:19:11] | jya_: | so you add to start live TV, bring the guide up and then you could change channel |
| [09:19:22] | jya_: | that it was starting liveTV first is key here |
| [09:19:36] | stuartm: | I don't see the difference here |
| [09:19:38] | jya_: | because the menu wouldn’t show if liveTV couldn’t be started for whatever reason |
| [09:20:07] | jya_: | a particular problem: was that the last tuned channel isn’t available anymore, or the input is busy or whatever |
| [09:20:23] | jya_: | now you start the guide, select the channel and *then* start liveTV |
| [09:20:27] | jya_: | so the guide always show |
| [09:20:49] | stuartm: | that sounds like a workaround for a bug |
| [09:21:06] | jya_: | it’s IMHO a big improvement. a small difference but it makes the difference between never being able to start live TV, and being able to |
| [09:21:08] | jya_: | that may be |
| [09:21:17] | stuartm: | we should always be able to start livetv, even if it has to keep trying different channels until it finds one that tunes |
| [09:21:55] | jya_: | while I agree, it’s unfortunatly not the case… |
| [09:22:08] | jya_: | our whole concept of “I do everything in the GUI thread” |
| [09:22:30] | jya_: | means that we start liveTV, and wait forever until it is started. as it assumes startup will be quick |
| [09:22:35] | stuartm: | I'm fine with the option to go to live tv from the guide, but not to turn the main guide into the livetv guide – that's great for those who use livetv, not for those who don't and see the scheduled recording stuff as the primary functionality |
| [09:23:21] | jya_: | stuartm: and this is what I’m talking about. So basically we have two different guide. one that is in the primary menu, just above watch liveTV. Where SELECT go to that channel immediately |
| [09:23:26] | jya_: | and one for editing recordings |
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| [09:24:01] | stuartm: | jya_: well I must admit I never really understood why Mark dropped the playback thread, although the fact it blocks is as much about how it was written to not relinquish to the eventloop during certain phases |
| [09:24:15] | jya_: | in any case, I’m not too happy with what we had before, and what we have now |
| [09:24:52] | stuartm: | I must be behind that commit, because I'm not seeing the option here |
| [09:25:13] | jya_: | you are probably using a different menu theme than the default |
| [09:25:20] | stuartm: | no, I'm using Default |
| [09:25:40] | jya_: | then it’s on the main screen, at the bottom just above setup |
| [09:26:25] | stuartm: | ohh ... I thought you said it was above Watch TV |
| [09:26:45] | jya_: | I don’t see any elegant way to resolve so we have a proper equivalent to the setting that was dropped (show guide at start of live TV) |
| [09:27:13] | stuartm: | well if we _did_ change the behaviour for that one only, then we should rename it – Live TV Guide or something, otherwise it's going to cause a huge amount of confusion |
| [09:27:17] | jya_: | stuartm: it was above on my machine, but below on my dev machine.. weird |
| [09:27:26] | jya_: | i agree |
| [09:28:06] | jya_: | the guide in live TV is buggy on my mac. if I switch focus and come back to mth, the screen is now black |
| [09:28:14] | stuartm: | a better approach IMHO would be to alter it so that the original 'live tv' guide is started before it tries to start playback |
| [09:28:20] | jya_: | and with the mythbuntu theme, nothing appears until i press a key |
| [09:28:47] | stuartm: | but meh |
| [09:28:47] | jya_: | stuartm: it was #11922 |
| [09:28:47] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11922 ** | |
| [09:29:45] | stuartm: | jya_: not quite what I meant, but like I said – meh |
| [09:30:04] | jya_: | i only looked into this because it was discussed on the user list |
| [09:30:57] | stuartm: | as long as I can remove the menu entry locally (because it will cause endless headaches for my relatives) and the original guide works as it always has then I've no objections |
| [09:31:58] | stuartm: | I'm not really convinced that it's the most elegant solution, but I'd rather fight about other stuff |
| [09:32:19] | stuartm: | shit, just noticed I'm running late for an appointment |
| [09:33:32] | jya_: | stuartm: i just find it non-intuitive that you have to go into Menu to select the channel to watch |
| [09:34:01] | jya_: | would prefer it to be Select, and the first entry. So you can do select select |
| [09:34:06] | jya_: | and bang you’re in it |
| [09:38:22] | ** jya_ Pizza Hut web site is the most poorly designed site ever ** | |
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| [10:30:55] | stuartm: | jya: I think somewhere along the line I got confused about what you were proposing, I'm fine with the option being in the SELECT menu, just not with getting rid of the SELECT menu and having it go straight to LiveTV instead |
| [10:31:43] | stuartm: | when I said about removing the menu entry, I meant the main menu entry, and only if it ends up having different SELECT behaviour to the 'scheduling' guide |
| [10:33:19] | stuartm: | so again I'm perfectly fine with "Watch this channel" appearing in the SELECT _MENU_ for any version of the guide |
| [10:34:47] | stuartm: | though longer term I wonder if it shouldn't be "Watch this programme", where for currently showing programmes it takes you to that channel, and for future programmes it offers to remind you when they are about to start (similar feature has appeared in all STBs I've owned) |
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| [10:49:13] | peper03: | Looking at adding network control to MythWelcome as I occasionally use Mythmote and it's a bit pointless if I can send a WOL packet to wake the machine but then get stuck in MythWelcome. |
| [10:49:58] | peper03: | The network control class is currently in with MythFrontend. At first I thought about re-factoring it to split it into base class and derived classes for the frontend and welcome, but now I'm not sure it's worth the effort. |
| [10:51:31] | peper03: | It works as-is with MythWelcome and even though it would offer things that aren't available in MythWelcome (like jumping to certain screens), some of those aren't always available in MythFrontend either (like jumping to MythWeather). |
| [10:52:41] | peper03: | So I think the easiest option is maybe just to move the class to somewhere a little more generic and perhaps add a parameter so that it doesn't always present itself as 'MythFrontend network control'. |
| [10:52:47] | peper03: | Thoughts? |
| [10:54:50] | stuarta: | perhaps a better question to ask is, what is missing from mythfrontend that requires the use of mythwelcome? |
| [10:55:05] | stuarta: | personally i just ditched mythwelcome last night |
| [10:58:53] | peper03: | I'm not dead-set against dropping it but I like seeing at a glance when the next recording is due (and what it is) and using mythwelcome makes it easy to make it clear that the machine can shut down. This is a combined fe/be. |
| [10:59:13] | peper03: | Of course, there's always 'Enter standby' in the frontend for that/ |
| [11:00:17] | peper03: | I remember discussing adding the next recording to the 'standby' screen with stuartm some time back. Never got round to investigating it further. |
| [11:01:25] | stuartm: | it wouldn't be very difficult to do (adding next recording(s) to standby screen) |
| [11:01:56] | peper03: | Using 'Enter standby' also means re-training my wife, which means being given 'the look' :-o |
| [11:02:16] | stuarta: | stuartm: yeah, there isn't much to mythwelcome, so merging what it does into the frontend should be trivial |
| [11:02:47] | stuartm: | peper03: if the option to 'Enter Standby' when Escape is pressed in the main menu doesn't already exist, we can also add that |
| [11:04:29] | peper03: | stuartm: Doesn't seem to be. Adding it would make sense. |
| [11:04:31] | stuartm: | stuarta: started doing that already when I added the idle/standby stuff, that was the reason mythwelcome was created in the first place, the other bits of functionality were added later |
| [11:06:43] | peper03: | Does the frontend start in standby if it's a combined machine and it wasn't started by the user (i.e. it turned on automatically to start recording)? |
| [11:10:47] | stuarta: | i don't believe it knows the concept yet |
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| [11:12:28] | stuartm: | think so, can't recall |
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| [11:13:34] | stuartm: | it would enter standby long before the recording ended though |
| [11:14:53] | peper03: | Depends on what the idle time is set to. I have it on something like 90 minutes to make sure it doesn't shut down too soon if I happen to leave it idle for a bit. |
| [11:15:48] | stuartm: | again, wouldn't be hard to have it start up in standby if it believes it was started automatically |
| [11:16:09] | peper03: | Something for me to investigate :) |
| [11:16:31] | stuarta: | or add a switch to do that, i start my frontend automatically but it's only used as a frontend, so it needs to go straight to active |
| [11:17:11] | stuartm: | look at the logic used by the backend for that same purpose, if (isMaster && scheduledRecording < XMinutesInFuture) { autoStartupAssumed = true; } |
| [11:17:37] | stuartm: | stuarta: we just need to see whether the frontend is on the same host (IP) as the backend |
| [11:18:30] | peper03: | Yep, something like that. I wouldn't want the frontend to always start in standby. If I've turned the machine on, I'd prefer it to be active. |
| [11:19:10] | stuarta: | stuartm: the backend seems to know if it was turned on for a recording, we just need to export that so the frontend can check it |
| [11:19:19] | peper03: | There's obviously always the chance that it gets turned on just before it was due to turn itself on anyway but I could live with that. It's not a huge hardship :) |
| [11:19:50] | stuartm: | stuarta: that's what I just said :) |
| [11:20:12] | stuarta: | he |
| [11:20:14] | stuarta: | heh |
| [11:20:48] | stuartm: | peper03: in that event pressing any button (or moving the mouse) would immediately exit standby, so as you say, no hardship |
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| [11:25:58] | peper03: | Presumably we'd have to extend the check a bit for fe/sbe boxes? You need a check to see whether either type of backend is running on the same machine and whether that backend is about to record (and therefore has probably just been woken automatically) |
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| [13:36:56] | peper03: | Hmm. The 'Customise exit menu options' setting changes what's in the exit *menu* (logically), which is only shown if EXITPROMPT is bound rather than EXIT (not sure if that's done automatically during installation or not). |
| [13:37:22] | peper03: | Going to standby instead of actually exiting is not quite the same thing. |
| [13:38:01] | peper03: | I.e. not semantically the same, so doesn't really fit in that setting. |
| [13:41:02] | peper03: | How to define going to standby on exit for those that have so far used mythwelcome but allow exit for those that really want to exit (e.g. not a dedicated machine) without adding another setting? |
| [13:48:44] | peper03: | Maybe enter standby on exit if the idle time setting is >0? Is there any reason to use standby mode on a machine where you would normally want to be able to exit the frontend? |
| [13:49:24] | stuarta: | peper03: easier option, just let a frontend be kicked to standby when hitting the idle timer |
| [13:50:50] | peper03: | stuarta: That's what happens now (so obviously easier to implement :) ) but as I said, I have the idle time set to about 90 minutes, so that would be a long wait under normal circumstances. |
| [13:51:14] | stuarta: | heh :) |
| [13:52:37] | stichnot: | stuartm, jya: just catching up. http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/4/2013-10-21 has discussion of removal of the WatchTVGuide setting after the "Watch this channel" addition. |
| [13:52:40] | stuarta: | peper03: then what's wrong with a 4th menu itme on the exit menu?? |
| [13:53:21] | stichnot: | with feedback from gigem and sphery |
| [13:54:37] | peper03: | stuarta: I was trying to find a way of not having to go through the menu. Normally no menu gets shown at all. If we have to go through a menu, it's just as easy to press 'm' and select 'Enter standby mode'. |
| [13:54:55] | stuarta: | jumppoint? |
| [13:54:57] | peper03: | But it would be nice to find a 'seamless' way of replacing mythwelcome. |
| [13:55:05] | stichnot: | the idea was to be able to bring up live TV with EPG with basically the same number of navigation keypresses/clicks as before |
| [13:58:36] | peper03: | Not enough buttons on the remote for a jumppoint, plus the 're-training the wife' aspect :) |
| [13:59:22] | stuarta: | off = standby ? |
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| [14:00:51] | peper03: | Wouldn't that be the same problem? How to cater for the people who really want to power off? |
| [14:01:20] | stuarta: | isn't that a local configuration tho? |
| [14:01:44] | stuarta: | default = poweroff |
| [14:01:57] | peper03: | If the goal (at least mid to long term) is to retire mythwelcome, I think we need something that doesn't require people to change their behaviour (if at all possible). |
| [14:02:02] | peper03: | Default == exit |
| [14:03:22] | stichnot: | stuartm: I think that I considered suppressing the "Watch this channel" menu item when the highlighted program is too far away from the current time. The problem is that since "Watch this channel" is the first menu item, it would be bad for muscle memory if you want to select that or any other menu items. And I wanted it as the first menu item to minimize the number of navigation steps for... |
| [14:03:22] | peper03: | You can specify a command for shutdown but I don't know whether mythutil or the like allow us to force a frontend into standby. I don't remember seeing anything. |
| [14:03:23] | stichnot: | ...the "watch live TV in guide" folks. |
| [14:07:53] | peper03: | stuarta: The more I think about it, the more it seems to make sense to enter standby if an idle timeout is set. Does it even make sense to use the standby functionality on anything but a combined system? |
| [14:08:05] | stuartm: | stichnot: all I was proposing for that bit was not to remove the option, just change it's behaviour for programmes in the future – offering to change the channel automatically when they started or popup up a reminder "You wanted to watch Cops @ 21:00, change channel now?" |
| [14:08:33] | stuartm: | peper03: yes, any non-idle frontend can block shutdown of a master backend |
| [14:09:06] | stuartm: | if the goal is to let your master backend shutdown to save power then all frontends need to be configured to go idle |
| [14:10:00] | stuartm: | I was eventually going to add a wakeonlan option for frontends, so they could also wake up the backend when they exited standby |
| [14:11:08] | peper03: | stuartm: I just wanted to mention that. If the backend shuts down, I seem to remember than any connected remote frontends play up. It ends up being very difficult to exit without resorting to killing them from the command line. |
| [14:11:42] | stuartm: | that should no longer be the case |
| [14:11:54] | peper03: | In master or 0.27-fixes already? |
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| [14:12:08] | stuartm: | 0.27.0 from what I recall |
| [14:13:08] | stuartm: | they'll pop up a warning that they are unable to connect, and you won't be able to use certain features (we should ultimately grey out those from the menus) but it won't become unresponsive |
| [14:14:53] | peper03: | Just tried it. 0.27 frontend running on my development PC connected to my production machine. Entered standby on the FE, shutdown the BE and the FE keeps complaining about not being able to connect to the master backend and is very unresponsive. |
| [14:15:06] | stuartm: | maybe they should be forced into standby when the backend disappears and won't leave it until they are able to reconnect – there is nothing you can really do on a frontend without the backend, all content is streamed via the backend, the database is likely on the same machine as the backend too |
| [14:15:22] | stuartm: | unresponsive how? |
| [14:15:40] | peper03: | It doesn't respond :) |
| [14:16:12] | peper03: | It doesn't re-draw properly. |
| [14:16:20] | peper03: | Everything is extremely sluggish. |
| [14:16:46] | stuartm: | hmm |
| [14:16:51] | peper03: | Ah, now after a minute or two, it's responding again. |
| [14:17:58] | peper03: | But if you try to do something that causes it to try to talk to the backend, it's not a pleasant experience. |
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| [14:18:26] | stuartm: | doesn't do that here, yes there is the annoyingly persistent popup, but that's why I was suggesting that the frontend 'retreats' into standby where we can suppress the popup and instead include a message on-screen that the backend/database is offline with a "Start the backend" option |
| [14:18:47] | peper03: | That was why I assumed that no-one would use standby on a remote FE if the backend were likely to go to sleep. |
| [14:20:13] | stuartm: | we tried that briefly, people complained that because they forgot to shutdown a frontend the backend stayed running, hence we give them the choice |
| [14:20:36] | stuartm: | but the frontend behaviour in that situation could be better |
| [14:21:21] | stuartm: | I'll whip up something this weekend |
| [14:21:48] | stuartm: | have an idea that's relatively simple but should be an improvement on the current behaviour |
| [14:22:28] | peper03: | In terms of remote FE behaviour when MBE disappears, or exiting to standby? |
| [14:34:41] | stuartm: | the former, but I may just look at the latter while I'm at it, not sure how much time I want to give to that while I've still got a lot to do on the WebFrontend |
| [14:37:14] | peper03: | stuartm: I'm quite happy to do it. I don't think entering standby instead of exiting is going to be hard to implement, it's just trying to work out when that can be done for those that need it without affecting those that don't. |
| [14:38:16] | peper03: | At the moment, though, I can't think of a way to do it automatically based on existing settings/conditions. |
| [14:38:31] | stuartm: | it might be a cop out, but I'd just use the existing 'exit behaviour' setting |
| [14:39:32] | stuarta: | add a new state, that's an idea |
| [14:39:52] | stuartm: | users who want it to go into standby can, those that want it to exit or shutdown can also get their preferred behaviour – we can allow shutdown from standby mode for anyone who wants both options and that's similar to what mythwelcome does now |
| [14:40:24] | stuartm: | I'd also add 'Enter Standby' to the exit menu, cover all the bases |
| [14:40:46] | peper03: | The current setting is to customise the exit menu options. There is no 'exit behaviour' setting (unless I'm missing something). |
| [14:41:08] | peper03: | And unless the key-binding is set correctly, you don't even see the exit menu. |
| [14:43:39] | stuartm: | huh, I was sure there was a setting that let you choose to 'Exit without prompt'/'Show exit menu' |
| [14:43:52] | stuartm: | must have been swept away in one of the setting cleanups |
| [14:45:46] | peper03: | [6e203ec] (https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/6e203ec) |
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| [14:49:10] | stuartm: | doh |
| [14:49:37] | stuartm: | sphery: so you know that setting I had you remove? :p |
| [14:49:41] | stuarta: | arse |
| [14:50:43] | stuartm: | peper03: well for now we can start by adding Enter Standby to the menu, then figure out what else we might do |
| [14:51:13] | stuartm: | adding back the setting might appear a bit farcical to outsiders |
| [14:51:50] | stuarta: | no change there then |
| [14:52:33] | peper03: | What about another key binding for 'Main Menu'? Currently, there's 'EXIT' and 'EXITPROMPT'. What about 'ENTERSTANDBY'? There is already a jumppoint for that, but that's not ideal for this scenario. |
| [14:53:31] | ** stuartm is going AFK for a bit ** | |
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| [15:25:07] | gigem: | stichnot, et al: Here are my thoughts on the EPG SELECT issue. I've long felt that, by default, SELECT should bring up a 'smallish,' context sensitive menu listing the most common actions relating to the currently highlighted 'thing'. The last item on that menu could lead to a longer, perhaps nested, menu of all reasonable actions that could be taken on 'thing.' For example, in the live TV EPG, the first |
| [15:25:08] | gigem: | menu item could be 'Watch this channel', followed by the other recording options offered in the non-live TV EPG. |
| [15:25:10] | gigem: | Note that the context sensitive menu action could be overridden by key bindings. In addition, other common actions could still be accessible via key bindings. For example, in the live TV EPG, PLAY might be a good choice for a 'Watch this channel' action and the user could change SELECT to do that if s/he wanted. To be done well, though, this would all most likely require more fine-grained key binding |
| [15:25:12] | gigem: | contexts. IMO, 'TV Frontend' is way too broad. |
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| [17:02:15] | sphery: | stuartm: If you're talking about entering standby versus exiting, it should be done as an action/key binding, not as a setting |
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| [17:03:14] | sphery: | stuartm: that way, users can hit power to exit with prompt or exit without prompt or enter standby (and, while you're at it, you could add an action for power off, and then they could hit power to shut down) |
| [17:04:25] | sphery: | basically they choose the action they want associated with the power button through key bindings, and users can even do things like power = power off, stop = exit no prompt, pause = standby/sleep |
| [17:04:44] | sphery: | (since they're all in the Main Menu context, they won't conflict with TV Playback actions) |
| [17:08:50] | sphery: | and, yeah, I agree with gigem that our current contexts are too broad and could be split up a bit--the only down side is more complexity in customizing/mapping/finding key bindings. I still want to eventually have key binding themes--basically add code to read in and write out key bindings (in some XML format, similar to how we do UI/OSD/Menu themes), so that users can easily try new ones, share them (among their own systems or among all ... |
| [17:08:56] | sphery: | ... users), and--ideally--find new ones (designed for their particular remote and the number of buttons it has available) through an extension to the theme downloader |
| [17:09:49] | sphery: | I think that would be enough of a benefit to allow the additional complexity of more-fine-grained contexts without causing additional problems/confusion for the majority of users. |
| [17:10:37] | sphery: | (that said, since the majority probably just use default key bindings, we can probably add new contexts without too many issues even without simplifying mapping/customization) |
| [17:14:59] | stuartm: | sphery: at once too broad and too narrow, e.g. tv playback controls such as PLAY/STOP/PAUSE/FFWD et al should just be playback controls and apply to internet video, music etc |
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| [18:45:29] | peper03: | Ok, adding a new key binding to enter standby from the main menu is easy enough but there are some settings that need the frontend to be restarted to take effect. If neither EXIT nor EXITPROMPT are bound, there's no way to exit the frontend. |
| [18:45:40] | peper03: | Add 'Exit' to the system menu? |
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| [19:15:38] | caelor: | stuartm at the risk of additional conceptual complexity, that could be handled by having overlapping contexts, rather than contexts being mutually exclusive |
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| [19:17:28] | caelor: | some measure of context priority would be needed to handle conflicts (although the mini-context menu might be appropriate in some instances where action is ambiguous due to overlapping contexts) |
| [19:20:59] | caelor: | I'd like to think that in the majority of cases, having consistent key bindings when "playing media" context is active should outweigh the times that "ok" could apply to multiple actions |
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| [20:14:43] | sphery: | stuartm: hehe, I stand corrected--that's definitely true |
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