Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, May 28th, 2014, 00:12 UTC

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gigem:

jpabq: For a while, I didn't think I'd be able to recreate the problem. I was just about to give up when I did it. I'll mail you a new backtrace shortly. Both recordings were recording with the corresponding files growing and neither stopped recording when requested. What I think finally contributed to causing the problem was stopping and restarting the recordings in quick succession. If this backtrace

[01:06:34]

gigem:

doesn't shed any new light on the problem, I'll try to add some more logging to the stop recording path when I get a chance.

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jya:

gigem: Iâ€™d be surprised if TFW had a deadlock in itâ€¦ Iâ€™ve reworked it extensively not long ago, so it had an extra pair of eyes going over it.

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[06:41:50]

jya:

ouchâ€¦ was looking at upgrading ffmpeg to 2.2 so paul-h could start working on his filtersâ€¦ I thought it would be a good approach to do that commit by commit rather than one big blobâ€¦

[06:41:57]

jya:

10749 commits to apply

[06:42:06]

jya:

in just one yearâ€¦ they do work those guys !

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[07:57:58]

stuarta:

morning all

[07:58:43]

stuarta:

jya: what happened to the ffmpeg fork?

[07:59:00]

jya:

what do you mean?

[07:59:24]

jya:

I reopened the devel/ffmpeg-resync branch today, and merge the current master into it

[07:59:49]

jya:

needed to do so, so I can update the lot to ffmpeg 2.2â€¦. changes are rather significantâ€¦

[08:00:12]

stuarta:

i mean there was a point where we were trying to decide which version to go with, ffmpeg, or it's fork. i'm just curious what happened to the fork

[08:01:02]

jya:

ah thatâ€¦

[08:01:22]

jya:

Weâ€™ve continued to use FFmpeg original ; no plan to use libav

[08:01:51]

jya:

considering that FFmpeg merges all the changes of libav , and vice-versa.. doesnâ€™t make much difference in the end.

[08:02:06]

jya:

having said that, there are features we do want that are now only in FFmpeg

[08:02:16]

stuarta:

cool thanks

[08:02:19]

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[08:02:29]

jya:

libav having decided that old == bad, theyâ€™ve dumped plenty of stuff

[08:02:39]

jya:

all stuff we still use a fair bit

[08:03:45]

stuarta:

that makes the decision pretty straightforward

[08:04:17]

jya:

a very recent example is the old vdpau APIâ€¦ in ffmpeg itâ€™s still in there, libav only has hwaccel API.

[08:04:41]

jya:

and currently, maybe this has changed in 2.2, but the hwaccel cause segfault with nouveau drivers

[08:05:11]

stuarta:

that sounds like a spot of madness

[08:05:51]

jya:

FFmpeg appears to have dropped completely the subtitle fields in there various structures. They had been marked deprecated for a while, but our own version of mpegts demuxer uses themâ€¦ not sure if simply re-adding the data structure is going to be sufficient

[08:06:19]

jya:

ffmpeg 2.2 is a much bigger change to ffmpeg 1.2 than 1.x was to 0.x

[09:23:03]

jya:

stuarta: Iâ€™m still unable to checkout the www repo.. Weâ€™ve had 0.27.1 released for two days now, and still no official announcement on our web siteâ€¦

[09:23:05]

jya:

not good

[09:23:31]

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[09:33:17]

stuarta:

jya: lemme check that now

[09:33:37]

jya:

not that Iâ€™m very keen on doing the announcement to start with :P

[09:37:06]

stuarta:

jya: added

[10:17:19]

jya:

anyone with an ATSC captured file, with subtitles ?

[10:18:25]

jya:

our entire code that was decoding CEA-708/608 from ATSC user data has been wiped away in ffmpeg currentâ€¦

[10:18:48]

jya:

going to rewrite some of it, but need something to test obviously

[10:19:19]

stuarta:

hasn't jpabq or stichnot been working mostly in that area?

[10:27:09]

jya:

probablyâ€¦ those are ffmpeg changes however, and they are â€¦. old

[10:27:14]

jya:

our changes to ffmpeg that is

[10:27:42]

stuarta:

ah. i think they are the 2 most likely to have samples

[10:30:53]

jya:

what I donâ€™t get in our changes, is that it scan for atsc subtitles data (length, position) inside the mpeg12 decoder (the video codec, not the transport)

[10:40:20]

jya:

ah okâ€¦ found itâ€¦ FFmpeg team actually fixed that structure issue, and removed everything not purely related to video to another file..

[10:40:23]

jya:

makes sense

[10:49:26]

jya:

stuarta: can you change the announcement at the top of #mythtv-users to say last stable is 0.27.1 ?

[10:49:33]

stuarta:

sure

[10:49:41]

jya:

thk

[10:51:03]

stuarta:

done

[11:01:32]

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[11:22:09]

jya:

amazingâ€¦ quite a fair amount of our long standing patches, are actually now in ffmpeg directly.

[11:22:21]

jya:

did anyone submit our patches to ffmpeg ?

[11:25:10]

jya:

most of the atsc captions stuff actually

[11:25:35]

jya:

including structure member we had added years ago, are now there, same name, same code

[11:26:06]

jya:

and same comments

[11:27:23]

jya:

doh, what an idiot.. I was copying/pasting in the wrong file

[11:36:19]

** stuarta facepalms **

[11:57:05]

stuartm:

anyone know if it's possible to have ffmpeg generate an initialization segment for DASH? I know it has fragment support but I can't find any definitive info on initialization segment/fragments

[12:01:04]

jya:

peper03: the patch you made in d8c710d204f5769ea4d0304a9a8618eb417f2837, for #11941

[12:01:04]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11941 **

[12:01:09]

jya:

do you have sample?

[12:01:42]

jya:

that part of the code is gone in ffmpeg 2.2, i have an idea on where we could simulate the previous behaviour, but Iâ€™m not sure the issue exists now to start with

[12:02:07]

jya:

ah never mind, I see in the ticket which sample to use

[12:04:31]

superm1:

jya: so the patches weren't submitted to ffmpeg after all? Was just a mistake on your part during the merge? Are any worth submitting?

[12:05:03]

jya:

superm1: yes, it was all a mistake on my part...

[12:05:21]

superm1:

Ah too bad :(

[12:05:29]

jya:

I thought I was editing ffmpeg original file, when I was actually doing the other way roundâ€¦ updating FFmpeg code with ours :)

[12:05:43]

jya:

was looking at the wrong column in my 3-way diff program

[12:06:09]

jya:

i think some are worth porting, we handle extra type of subtitles that they have no support for

[12:06:23]

jya:

such as those found in ATSC streams

[12:07:11]

jya:

but quite honestly, I wonâ€™t bother trying to submit patches upstream. Itâ€™s a difficult exercise, they are very fussy and will require to go back and forth a hundred times

[12:07:46]

jya:

plus, I have no idea what some of those changes do precisely, so explaining them or rewriting them is out of my reach

[12:07:52]

stuartm:

jya: besides which, porting our unique features to ffmpeg means they aren't unique any more :)

[12:08:02]

stuartm:

:P

[12:10:24]

jya:

I remember the difficulty I had once pushing a patch I did know aboutâ€¦

[12:12:36]

stuartm:

so upshot of several hours of research, trial and error and hair pulling is that we can't just use our existing hls segments with a dash playlist, it will need some modification but I'm still hoping that it won't be much

[12:13:38]

jya:

stuartm: I had an idea last night about the HLS encoderâ€¦

[12:13:41]

stuartm:

yet to actually get a proof of concept working, but at least I think I know why it's not working

[12:13:55]

stuartm:

jya: oh?

[12:13:56]

jya:

would get rid pretty much of everything currently there, but thatâ€™s not the main thing

[12:14:01]

jya:

yeahâ€¦

[12:14:39]

jya:

for a start, no more use of an external app to do so. for VOD, the playlist is generated immediately, as if all segments were already present

[12:14:59]

jya:

the backend starts encoding the file, with small segments and keep those cache

[12:15:24]

jya:

so for playback it starts immediately, and doesnâ€™t appear as a live stream as it does now.

[12:15:40]

jya:

now, when the client attempts to seek and fetch a new segment

[12:15:40]

stuartm:

that's basically what dash does, it doesn't even produce a list of the segments, just gives the segment duration, the total duration and lets the player figure it out

[12:15:58]

jya:

the server consider this as the new current location and start doing the segment from that point directly

[12:16:28]

jya:

basically, we do not attempt to encode the whole file. We only encode the segment the client is requesting, and do so only a few segments ahead of time

[12:16:28]

stuartm:

that would be great, what we've got now is a bit of a kludge

[12:16:49]

jya:

segments are encoded on demand, playback starts instantly, you can seek immediately.

[12:17:04]

stuartm:

yeah, sounds good

[12:17:05]

jya:

that means the backend does everything, including serving the content

[12:17:19]

jya:

would re-use your existing http server

[12:17:52]

jya:

for in-progress recording/liveTV I already have a clear idea on how we could do it (I had thought about this for the rtsp server I want to put in place)

[12:18:11]

jya:

that one on the other hand, is purely a live stream, encode as it goes, 2s at at time

[12:18:42]

jya:

Iâ€™m fairly certain AirVideo does something similar already

[12:19:19]

stuartm:

would make supporting bookmarks possible too

[12:19:37]

jya:

I guess the client could request where we last played yes

[12:19:53]

jya:

Iâ€™m finishing the ffmpeg resync, and will start on this

[12:19:59]

stuartm:

cool

[12:20:04]

jya:

I have three tasks Iâ€™m very keen on doing

[12:21:30]

jya:

1- Remore *all* of our decoder/rendering stuff. Instead have a different approach where a format is a unique class for decoding *and* rendering. Rather than having mythplayer creating the renderer, and then start a decoder. the decoder is responsible to start things accordingly

[12:21:41]

jya:

that will allow to remove the entire playback profile business.

[12:22:17]

jya:

the decoder when a file is opened, can now attempt to use whatever method is best. vdpau, vaapi, vda, what else. And create the render for that particular decoder.

[12:22:19]

stuartm:

what we're currently missing for dash support is the creation of the initialisation segment, basically three key parts of the header extracted into a file separate from any video/audio frames, the dash player uses this to initialise without having to start playback from the beginning or requesting the first segment

[12:23:11]

stuartm:

jya: eliminating the playback profile stuff would also be a great step

[12:23:28]

jya:

thatâ€™s how xbmc and mplayer do it btw, the renderer is created as required

[12:23:50]

jya:

that allows to pick the best profile for a particular video, and fall back to another method as required

[12:24:42]

jya:

for us, itâ€™s not possible to do so. because they the user decided to use VDPAU, the player creates a vdpau render, and start the decoder. If the vdpau render creation failed, too bad, it will continue to attempt using the vdpau decoder.

[12:25:40]

jya:

as the render and decoder are completely separated, with one not aware of the other, itâ€™s difficult to handle errors and fall back (I have a ticket opened on this: #10602

[12:25:40]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10602 **

[12:26:05]

jya:

Task #2: a rtsp server, that allows VOD and live streaming.

[12:26:31]

jya:

Iâ€™m actually thinking that the content server could be generic enough, that it could be used for HLS and whatever else you want

[12:27:26]

jya:

actually, if I can combine the content server from the delivery part, I have no task #3

[12:27:26]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3 **

[12:27:39]

stuartm:

I'd like to be working on the playback of hls/dash via the webfrontend which IMHO is one of the critical features of the webfrontend, getting that done is near the top of my TODO list for 0.28

[12:28:12]

jya:

oh well, that makes us a good combination then.. you do the client part, I do the server

[12:28:34]

stuartm:

I've got something that works atm, but it doesn't work very well because of the way we do the transcoding and the need to use Flash for HLS, instead of HTML5 + Dash

[12:29:29]

jya:

itâ€™s very difficult to do anything with the current HLS server unfortunately. itâ€™s so slow to start

[12:29:29]

stuartm:

ideally we'd support both HLS and DASH, flash + html5 which should mean that it works for several different platforms

[12:29:54]

stuartm:

jya: _very_ slow :/

[12:30:43]

jya:

I was thinking the URL we use could be all we need to start whatever we want to access

[12:30:53]

jya:

no mor eneed for an API that says : please start this

[12:31:00]

jya:

e.g. something like:

[12:31:22]

jya:

rtsp://mythback:1234/live/30

[12:31:36]

jya:

http://mythbackend:1235/live/30

[12:32:00]

stuartm:

jya: aye, the existing HLS api isn't RESTFUL, which though it doesn't personally offend me, it's contrary to the original design goals of the services API

[12:32:13]

jya:

for recordings / videos: PROTO://server:port/storage_group/file_name.mpg

[12:32:34]

jya:

basically, the same path as used in a myth:// url

[12:32:45]

jya:

just add the live part

[12:33:22]

stuartm:

having the transcode/streaming start at a particular point in time through a single URL request is both elegant and RESTFUL (did I mention how much I hate that term?)

[12:33:42]

jya:

I didnâ€™t even know that word until 30s ago :)

[12:35:06]

stuartm:

RESTFUL API is one that is totally stateless, it requires that all API commands should return what was requested without requring them to be preceded by other commands

[12:35:16]

jya:

how, I know very well REST

[12:35:35]

jya:

most of the API Iâ€™ve designed for phone app services, are REST

[12:35:41]

stuarta:

stuartm: you are not alone. i hate "RESTFUL" as well

[12:35:56]

jya:

youâ€™re talking about the word, or the method ?

[12:36:05]

jya:

I like the method, itâ€™s very elegant IMHO

[12:36:13]

stuartm:

ah, well RESTFUL is just the irritating adjective buzzword to describe a REST API

[12:36:15]

jya:

easier than soap

[12:36:29]

stuarta:

jya: for me the word, the technology is nice

[12:36:33]

stuartm:

jya: the word

[12:36:39]

jya:

ah ok

[12:38:42]

stuartm:

it's one of those made up terms that sounds 'cute' and is way overused by management and consultant types who usually don't have a clue what they are actually talking about

[12:39:11]

jya:

i see

[12:39:17]

stuartm:

but what irritates me most is that it's managed to seep into my own vocab :(

[12:41:05]

stuartm:

I once saw a presentation where every mention of RESTful was accompanied by clipart of 'ZZZzzz' ...

[12:41:54]

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[12:44:14]

stuartm:

so I've got the afternoon free, garage aren't able to fit my new tyres because they forgot to order them ...

[12:44:30]

stuartm:

any requests for the WebFrontend?

[12:44:43]

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[12:46:46]

jya:

finally some airline putting their head out of their arses: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/38017/canada-ru . . . ampaign=ttcs

[12:49:01]

jya:

allright, a tad late.. going to interrupt my resync with the last episode of game of thrones

[12:51:25]

stuartm:

last couple of flights the airline has only required that they are in 'aeroplane mode' during takeoff which is fine since there's no signal anyway

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[13:01:15]

jheizer:

jya, I have ATSC recordings with subtitles. Want me to cut you a few minutes sample?

[13:01:33]

jya:

jheizer: yes pleaseâ€¦

[13:05:14]

jheizer:

Will a ffmpeg copy keep it in place? Or I can just dd the front but it will have ~100mb of extra if that is ok.

[13:07:17]

jya:

jheizer: with a mpegts file, just use dd

[13:17:29]

jheizer:

jya, http://mobilemyth.net/ATSC_Subtitles.mpeg

[13:17:41]

jheizer:

300mb/2.5 min

[13:18:25]

jya:

downloading thantks..

[13:18:30]

jya:

what, that is a fast server...

[13:18:41]

jya:

waoo

[13:18:48]

jheizer:

I uploaded it to my VPS

[13:18:58]

jya:

7MB/s here

[13:19:05]

jheizer:

my home server is a bit of a mess at the moment

[13:19:11]

jheizer:

damn, nice

[13:19:14]

jya:

where is that hosted?

[13:19:26]

jheizer:

I haven't pulled anything big off it except backups

[13:19:26]

jya:

Iâ€™ve never seen such speed to an overseas server

[13:19:33]

jheizer:

LA I believe

[13:19:47]

jya:

my ISP must have upgraded their pipes

[13:19:50]

jheizer:

VPS company got bought, transfer=ed my VM a few times, etc

[13:19:53]

jheizer:

I can't keep up

[13:21:21]

jheizer:

yeah, LA

[13:28:08]

stuartm:

half that here :/

[13:28:34]

stuartm:

and falling to 2MB/s

[13:31:20]

jheizer:

It is able to max out my connection which is no 7MB/s sadly. 3.3MB/s ish

[13:34:16]

stuartm:

my connection is 50Mbps but I am on the other side of the world

[13:38:56]

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[13:43:19]

jheizer:

I think I need to break down and get a DOCSIS 3 modem since Comcast messed with our plan speeds.

[13:46:58]

stuartm:

I caved last week :)

[13:47:17]

jheizer:

Haha

[13:47:57]

jheizer:

I assume I need it now as I am getting speeds 1/2 between 2 plans. Their site is all messed up and won't tell me which plan I am currently on, just that I have "Internet".

[13:48:16]

jheizer:

But I assume I need it to get the rest of the speed of the higher of the two.

[13:48:42]

jheizer:

What'd you get? I've been eyeing the SB6141.

[13:49:13]

stuartm:

although as it happened they actually did something right for once, not only did they waive the usual fee for supplying a new modem they actually moved me to one of their newer plans which costs less but offers a little more ...

[13:49:29]

jheizer:

Niice

[13:49:30]

stuartm:

jheizer: cable co supplied modem/router

[13:49:40]

jheizer:

Double win.

[13:49:58]

stuartm:

netgear made, but I've got it in modem only mode

[13:50:32]

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[13:50:33]

jheizer:

Nice when they can do that.

[13:50:42]

stuartm:

like you I was on an older plan that they no longer offer

[13:51:54]

stuartm:

my old modem was an Ambit 256 IIRC

[13:53:00]

stichnot:

jya: I also have like 1000 ATSC recordings, pretty much all with cc608 and cc708 captions (though I don't know if there's any difference between the two at the ffmpeg level)

[13:53:26]

jheizer:

~8 year old Cisco here

[13:53:59]

jya:

stichnot: Iâ€™m now fairly confident it will be all fineâ€¦.. just that ffmpeg splitted the code between two files (which makes a lot of sense), and was able to patch the new one

[13:55:04]

jheizer:

stuartm, ordered. Bad influence :)

[13:55:58]

stuartm:

new modem/router has some very new wifi options, but sadly it's had other standard features removed (cable co custom firmware), so I'm sticking with my older Cisco (Linksys) router for now

[13:56:13]

stuartm:

s/very new/very nice/

[13:56:32]

jya:

my docsis 3 cable modem is a cisco one.

[13:56:45]

jya:

wifi and routing options sucks next to my asus router

[13:56:51]

jya:

so have it in bridge mode

[13:56:57]

jya:

with all routing/wifi disabled

[13:57:21]

jya:

modem router provided by isp are usually crap anyway

[13:57:22]

jheizer:

I run a pfsense box and a stand alone AC AP.

[13:57:26]

jya:

amazing...

[13:57:38]

jya:

my ffmpeg merge compile at the first attempt

[13:57:40]

jya:

didnâ€™t expect that

[13:57:49]

jya:

now will it work :)

[13:58:04]

jheizer:

At least they have bridge mode. My one DSL modem years ago didn't and it was a pain.

[13:59:25]

jya:

jheizer: usually, when they donâ€™t specifically has one, disabling nat and dhcp is all you need

[14:00:09]

jheizer:

yeah there ended up being some 20 step trick to get it to work, but you had to do all the steps in the right order and it eventually worked.

[14:01:00]

jheizer:

But I had to run for a while before I found it, ended up DMZing the next router as a work around.

[14:01:18]

jya:

and it plays my files ...

[14:05:30]

jya:

DVB-T subtitles work, in your file jheizer the susbtitle menu isnâ€™t even enabled :(

[14:06:02]

jya:

oh well, will check tomorrow

[14:06:06]

jheizer:

I should say I assume they worked before.

[14:06:08]

** jya goodnight **

[14:06:18]

jheizer:

I never use them, just check that it had them in VLC before sending.

[14:06:59]

jya:

ah, they arenâ€™t in 0.27.1 either

[14:07:46]

jya:

stichnot: you may want to check in current master fixes/0.27.1 that subtitles in ATSC do work, in the sample above, they do not

[14:08:16]

stuartm:

anyone know of an alternate solution for this problem? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/151195/pos . . . f-the-result

[14:08:28]

stuartm:

neither of the stated solutions works with mysql 5.5

[14:09:21]

jheizer:

jya, sorry about that. I can test some others if you would like. I don't have a working windows myth FE build down here at the moment but can run upstairs.

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[14:20:48]

stichnot:

jya: latest master cc608 and cc708 both look fine, sampling the latest episode of "24"

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[14:34:21]

gigem:

stuartm: order by mydate is null, mydate works for me.

[14:34:43]

stuartm:

gigem: strange, doesn't work here :/

[14:35:59]

gigem:

This is with version 5.5.37. The only other thing I can think that might affect it is locale, but I don't know why it would in this case.

[14:36:13]

stuartm:

5.5.37 here too

[14:36:43]

stuartm:

gigem: null entries are sorted to the back of the results with ASC?

[14:37:51]

stuartm:

SELECT next_record FROM record ORDER BY next_record IS NULL, next_record ASC;

[14:37:54]

gigem:

Yes. I tried it on my recorded table which has one null originalairdate. With ASC (actually, without ASC or DESC) the null was at the end. With DESC, the null was at the beginning.

[14:38:36]

stuartm:

ahh... user error, that column is NOT NULL

[14:38:54]

stuartm:

so the 'null' dates, aren't actually null?

[14:39:14]

gigem:

Yeah, was just about to tell you I don't have any nulls there, just intended invalid 0000-00–00 dates.

[14:39:46]

stuartm:

OK, so different approach required :)

[14:40:22]

stuartm:

SELECT next_record FROM record ORDER BY next_record = "0000-00–00 00:00:00", next_record ASC;

[14:40:26]

stuartm:

works ...

[14:40:28]

gigem:

Change IS NULL to = '0000-00–00 00:00:00' works as I would expect;

[14:40:35]

gigem:

Yep.

[14:41:12]

stuartm:

ok thanks for that, I was sure that they were null, would have continued chasing my tail for a while

[14:41:25]

gigem:

De nada.

[14:41:42]

caelor:

the talk earlier today about integrating the HLS encoding (DASH/HLS discussion) is of interest to me – I suspect it could make the Roku a decent alternative for screens that don't need a full frontend.

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[17:57:19]

stuartm:

is anyone familiar with a jQuery vertical carousel type plugin that responds to gestures, mousewheel and the page scroll bar?

[18:41:52]

yxelf:

surely someone. or a lot of folks. but sadly, I'm not. :/

[18:45:09]

stuartm:

can't find anything that combines everything I'm looking for in one package, but there's one that comes close and so I'll see how easy it would be to bolt on the missing features

[18:45:57]

stuartm:

quite surprised really, didn't think I was expecting too much

[18:46:56]

natanojl:

stuartm: Have you seen this one: http://plugins.learningjquery.com/jcarousellite/ ?

[18:47:32]

yxelf:

don't know about that. what I've "learned" is that I expect too much from me...

[18:49:03]

yxelf:

and that I've yet to learn the "real" programming languages like C... My mind wraps around assembly more easily. Actually 100 folds more easily.

[18:54:44]

stuartm:

natanojl: I had, it requires you to click on the links to move through it instead of being able to use the arrow keys, drag the mouse or finger etc There are a few other things I don't like about it too

[18:55:15]

stuartm:

currently settled on Slick (https://kenwheeler.github.io/slick/) as the basis for a proof of concept

[18:55:47]

stuartm:

it does much of what I want already

[18:57:45]

stuartm:

no mousewheel support, but I should be able to use the API and jQuery mousewheel plugin to fix that

[18:58:55]

stuartm:

yet to tell if it will dynamically adjust the number of visible items to the area of it's parent div, but if not I that's a simple calculation to make at runtime

[19:27:25]

gigem:

Does anyone know PHP, specifiaclly mythweb PHP? I'm working on #12155 and have stopped the subtitle/description from getting saved in the rule, but I can't figure out where they're allowed to be edited in the first place.

[19:27:25]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12155 **

[19:47:26]

yxelf:

gigem: not to be rude or anything. but it seems that EVERYBODY knows php,c,c++ or any other coding language.

[19:47:50]

yxelf:

and very few know or can assembly

[19:49:57]

yxelf:

If I had a big need, I think I could do assembly in bigger scale, ie, done it only in some microcontrollers so far. It seemed easy, though.

[19:58:43]

stuartm:

assembly simply isn't practical at scale and when developing cross platform, it's straight forward enough, much like basic really in it's simplicity, but it's complex when you're talking about developing applications with guis, threading etc

[20:02:08]

stuartm:

it's not that most people can't do assembly, just that they don't have much use for it (outside microprocessors, or highly optimised algorithms for larger apps written in a high level language)

[20:02:25]

yxelf:

surely so. but I really ain't a SW guy... I can do much in HW, but I havn't been able to cope C or other more elegant language

[20:09:49]

stuarta:

gigem: what do you need?

[20:24:06]

natanojl:

gigem: https://github.com/MythTV/mythweb/blob/master . . . nual.php#L88 , is that what you were looking for? I can't see a description input though

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[21:08:06]

gigem:

yxelf: Ah memories. The project in my senior OS class was to write a complete 360/370 assembler *in* 360/370 assembly. That professor was known for usually failing more than 50% of the students in that class. He was suspended after the semester I took it when that number went over 70%.

[21:09:46]

gigem:

stuarta: I can handle the part where the values get sent back from the browser in a post command. It's the part where a form or input of some type gets sent to the browser and lets the user edit it that is escaping me. Basically, it's letting the user edit the subtitle and description for a recording rule and I want to disallow that.

[21:15:30]

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[21:17:13]

stuarta:

gigem: it's probably templated

[21:17:39]

stuarta:

so it would be the template that's generating the generic form, rather than the main controller php

[21:21:47]

gigem:

stuarta: Okay, I'll look there. Thanks.

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