Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, May 27th, 2014, 00:02 UTC

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skd5aner:

stuartm: looks like it was backported. https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/65c0e . . . e88b6dd10d9e How can you tell if the image is the "best" image or the last" as you mentioned in your commit?

[01:20:44]

skd5aner:

stuartm: also, for future reference, a few years ago I wrote a section on the debugging wiki article on how to attach to an already running/hung process: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging#Attachin . . . ning_process

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[02:15:02]

jya:

stichnot: itâ€™s lucky you found the nuv issue when you didâ€¦ The change for the 9/10 bits video actually also broke the generation of dummy frames..

[02:15:18]

jya:

playback is now *much* smoother in LiveTV when youâ€™re very close to the end

[02:15:32]

jya:

dummy frames are better than dropped ones

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[04:44:15]

stichnot:

jya: cool, actually it's lucky my kids complained...

[04:44:46]

jya:

how do you change a milestone to mark it as completed?

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[04:51:29]

jya:

ah, got to go into the milestone view, then select the milestone, and then edit it

[04:58:32]

jya:

stichnot: should I apply patch from #12029 ?

[04:58:32]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12029 **

[04:59:25]

jya:

oh itâ€™s already been applied

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stichnot:

jya: has it been applied? git log shows that file was last touched in January

[05:04:26]

jya:

well, I just checked the file, and the line had been moved

[05:04:40]

stichnot:

hmm

[05:05:35]

stichnot:

doesn't look moved to me, at least in master

[05:05:41]

jya:

oh my bad..

[05:05:43]

jya:

i misread

[05:05:51]

jya:

so do I apply that change?

[05:06:04]

jya:

seems simple enough

[05:10:14]

stichnot:

It makes sense, but give me an hour or so to track down my collection of weird forced subtitles and test

[05:13:57]

jya:

ok thanks

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stichnot:

jya: With the other forced-subtitle samples I have, I can't even bring out the bug without the patch, but I can definitely see the behavior (and the fix) with the #12029 sample. Can you apply the patch? (I have to go to sleep now :) )

[06:51:13]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12029 **

[06:52:31]

jya:

ok i will

[06:52:33]

jya:

thanks

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[08:40:39]

stuarta:

jya: i can see an error in http://git.io/Rf5URg you've spelt bswap.h bwap.h in the first change

[08:41:18]

jya:

damn

[08:45:25]

stuarta:

jya: btw do you still need your permissions sorting so you can tag?

[08:45:48]

jya:

that would help in the future yes

[08:46:09]

jya:

same as editing www

[08:47:00]

stuarta:

jya: stuartm can give you the rundown on how that works, it's a commit publish operation for the www

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_nyloc_ is now known as nyloc

[08:57:35]

stuartm:

stuarta: he's not got the perms to access the www repo and I'm not sure where those are controlled

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[09:01:12]

stuarta:

stuartm: i'll have a look

[09:03:59]

stuartm:

stuarta: we should set up a post-commit hook for www which invokes publish.pl

[09:04:26]

stuartm:

so that pushing changes to www automatically rolls them out on the server

[09:08:02]

stuarta:

can look into that in the longer term

[09:11:37]

stuarta:

jya: you will now be able to tag releases

[09:12:51]

jya:

stuarta: was there a lit in the current gitorious pre-commit hook with who could commit?

[09:13:34]

stuarta:

something like that. gitolite configuration was preventing you pushing to tags/*

[09:15:29]

jya:

good enough to commit, but not good enough to tag eh?

[09:17:17]

** jya liking the natural sorting quite a bitâ€¦ wonder if I should push that to fixes too **

[09:20:50]

jya:

stuarta: in reference to #12019

[09:20:50]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12019 **

[09:21:38]

jya:

when configure list the recorders being included. (in the category Input Support)

[09:21:47]

jya:

which name should I add there?

[09:22:01]

jya:

itâ€™s basically remove the ability to build NuppelVideoRecorder

[09:22:21]

stuarta:

SoftwareEncoding?

[09:22:27]

stuarta:

SoftwareEncodor?

[09:22:33]

stuarta:

dunno really

[09:22:43]

jya:

you mentioned frame grabber in that ticket..

[09:22:44]

stuarta:

FrameGrabber?

[09:22:56]

jya:

Iâ€™m just having a hard time figuring out how to call that particular recorder

[09:23:09]

stuarta:

frame grabber makes more sense, we refer to those on the wiki i'm sure

[09:23:24]

jya:

the other possibility would be to make the lamemp3 bit inside NuppelVideoRecorder conditional

[09:23:44]

jya:

but Iâ€™m not sure that recorder makes sense without mp3 encoding and is better off disabled entirely

[09:24:22]

stuarta:

tbh i would disable the recorder entirely

[09:24:35]

jya:

well, thatâ€™s less work for sure

[09:24:38]

stuarta:

analog framegrabbers are dying out

[09:24:45]

jya:

though I believe nuppel can have AC3 stream

[09:25:03]

stuarta:

i'll leave it up to you what you feel is best

[09:25:09]

jya:

those could still work in theory as it doesnâ€™t require any encoder (well it does, but we have one already)

[09:25:33]

stuarta:

but i'd just suggest keeping it simple if (liblame) enable framegrabber else disable framegrabber

[09:25:38]

jya:

but changing mp3 encoding, and instead use AC3 may be more work than itâ€™s worth

[09:25:43]

stuarta:

it is

[09:25:58]

stuarta:

i can't see the benefit

[09:26:15]

stuarta:

liblame is still available for those that would need the functionality

[09:26:17]

jya:

is those only for analog recorder?

[09:26:34]

jya:

stichnot piggy stuff was from a re-encoding bit I believe

[09:26:49]

jya:

those too would become impossible to create

[09:26:53]

stuarta:

AFAIK yes, but i'm no expert at it

[09:26:55]

jya:

as it is with mp3 at least

[09:29:07]

jya:

stuarta: #11507â€¦ it was originally an analog recording, but then transcodedâ€¦ the transcoding itself would become disable

[09:29:58]

stuarta:

i honestly have no idea if what i'm suggesting is feasile

[09:30:01]

stuarta:

feasible

[09:30:50]

jya:

oh, Iâ€™m sure it is.. the issue is really what do we allow to disable alltogether, and properly have that displayed in the configure output, so at least the user knows heâ€™s missing a few components

[09:31:12]

jya:

so we have mythtranscode, and frame grabber

[09:31:33]

stuarta:

are parts of mythtranscode afected?

[09:31:51]

stuarta:

i'm guesing it would disable some output formats

[09:31:53]

jya:

well, yes, because by default mythtranscode generates a nuv (and with mp3 audio)

[09:32:14]

jya:

(ignoring lossless transcode)

[09:32:16]

stuartm:

jya: I think beirdo just got a bit carried away with compartmentalising the perms, particularly after some botched tagging in the past

[09:32:16]

stuarta:

true

[09:32:45]

jya:

mythtranscode is due to a rewrite to use another container anywayâ€¦

[09:33:20]

jya:

maybe we could simply move it to use ffmpeg encoder instead of libmp3lame

[09:33:46]

jya:

if it does have a mp3 encoder that is

[09:33:54]

stuarta:

i think you've picked out the most likely 2 options there

[09:35:30]

jya:

allright, thereâ€™s no MP3 encoder without libmp3lame in ffmpeg

[09:36:16]

jya:

could use AC3 instead of mp3â€¦ that way we can keep all components regardless of libmp3

[09:37:03]

stuartm:

having the option to use AC3 or another codec would be useful regardless

[09:37:52]

jya:

from googling, 128kbit/s mp3 sounds much better than AC3 at the same bitrate, however 192kbit/s AC3 sounds better than mp3

[09:37:58]

jya:

at the same bitrate

[09:38:49]

jya:

isnâ€™t our nuv so proprietary these days that no one else can play them?

[09:39:25]

stuarta:

isn't the favourite alternative format matroska these days?

[09:39:34]

jya:

i believe so yes...

[09:39:44]

stuartm:

jya: more that no-one else really bothers with NUV and our version wasn't the latest or something like that, so basically we're the only ones who can play it

[09:39:47]

jya:

itâ€™s just this is one task I never thought I would need to undertake

[09:40:31]

jya:

stuartm: if ffmpeg nuv support, it explicitely has an option for mythâ€™s nuv, but the code is pretty old, may not work today anyway

[09:41:43]

stuartm:

I'd love to see nuv die, for transcoding if nothing else, since the framegrabber stuff is largely irrelevant now anyway

[09:42:28]

jya:

adding anything to our list of todos is going to push 0.28 release to 2023

[09:44:47]

jya:

5 May 2002, last mod to the nuv mp3 encoder :)

[09:44:58]

stuarta:

it's dead jim

[09:45:32]

jya:

changing the existing code to use ffmpeg encoder instead of using libmp3lame directly, would help any task for sure

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[09:46:42]

jya:

someone needs to send me an analog card to test, and a one week trip to a country with still analog broadcast

[09:48:42]

stuarta:

to me that makes disabling the code more appealing

[09:49:19]

jya:

disabling analog recorder is fine by meâ€¦ disabling mythtranscode isnâ€™t

[09:49:38]

stuartm:

jya: fwiw for testing you can hook up an old VCR or console, or anything with an RF output

[09:49:49]

stuarta:

agreed. then doesn't it make sense to change the default encoder output type to something more people use?

[09:50:04]

stuartm:

not that I'm suggesting you _should_ be doing this, but if you want to ...

[09:50:21]

stuarta:

for testing transcode even transcoding a digital recording is sufficient

[09:50:23]

jya:

oh, I believe I may still have my VHS, 6 heads, stereo Philips, top-end VCR..

[09:50:29]

jya:

was so proud when I bought that one

[09:50:40]

stuarta:

it's the lamegrabber that gets it into a digital format for you.

[09:51:09]

stuartm:

I've never owned a framegrabber, went straight to a PVR-150

[09:51:15]

jya:

ah noâ€¦ was thrown away my wife tells me

[09:51:35]

** jya knew nothing should ever make it to the bin **

[09:51:49]

stuarta:

jya: you don't need it to test transcoding changes

[09:52:06]

stuartm:

well actually I went straight to DVB, but briefly toyed with a PVR-150 to record from Sky – wasn't worth the hassle in the end

[09:54:16]

stuarta:

i need to reboot the host under forum, it'll be back shortly

[09:56:16]

stuartm:

http://www.jwplayer.com/html5/#html5_mediaformats

[09:58:34]

stuartm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2014/03/media-source-extensions

[10:01:07]

stuartm:

think we might want to add support for MSE and MPEG-DASH alongside HLS, since it's going to have wider browser support than HLS

[10:10:05]

stuarta:

forum is back btw.

[10:21:09]

stuarta:

hmm, i wonder if i've still got my original dvb card, that had a framegrabber on it as well

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[10:38:38]

warpme:

stuartm: I think it is great idea to base mythwebfrontend on MSE. Support for remote content access (TVrec, video and music) from outside (phone/tablet) is one from most asked new features by my users. Idea to have browser based fe is simply great!

[10:48:11]

warpme:

isn't a worth to consider mpeg-dash as protocol-of-choice for API streaming protocol?. I see advantages over Flash/Silver/HLS as no speciffic player code is required on client side (beside js). This finally might be holly grall for client-less fe...

[10:48:29]

warpme:

s/API/services API/

[10:49:45]

stuartm:

browser support is currently patchy for both HLS and MSE+DASH

[10:50:35]

stuartm:

although MSE should become a W3C standard and HLS won't so it's obviously the preferred method for streaming to a browser

[10:54:09]

stuartm:

heh, why do most European countries dub foreign films? English speaking countries don't dub, they provide subtitles instead

[10:54:30]

warpme:

right. jwplayer (http://www.jwplayer.com/html5/) says now only Chrome. I strongly believe it will quickly change :-0

[10:56:19]

stuartm:

warpme: I'll see what it actually requires, aside from the hard to follow W3C standard proposal there's not a lot of documentation on implementing it, and even less documentation that is well written*

[10:56:35]

stuartm:

* at least I'm struggling to find much

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[11:41:26]

sdrik:

Hi! I saw you guys talking about replacing the custom resolution feature by a simple checkbox for automatic refresh rate matching.

[11:41:33]

sdrik:

If this is not top priority I'd like to volunteer.

[11:41:45]

sdrik:

I've already looked into this code for #12150 so I guess I can come up with something in the next few weeks.

[11:41:45]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12150 **

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[11:44:04]

warpme:

stuartm: regarding mpeg-hash standards – may You look on http://warped.homenet.org/MPEG-DASH.zip

[11:44:26]

warpme:

also pls look on opensource DASH implementations: http://www-itec.uni-klu.ac.at/dash/?page_id=6

[11:44:44]

warpme:

probably nothing new for You – but just in case...

[11:49:31]

stuartm:

it's the MSE side that's perplexing me atm

[11:49:56]

stuartm:

sdrik: that would be great!

[11:50:53]

warpme:

oops – url should be http://warped.homenet.org/MPEG-DASH.ZIP

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[11:57:35]

stuartm:

warpme: the bit I can't seem to find is how the browser/javascript actually checks for the existence of new segments on the server, with HLS it polls a playlist file, but I can't see how it works for MSE or even if MSE handles this bit itself, perhaps that's up to the javascript which implements the API?

[11:59:15]

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[12:00:11]

warpme:

stuartm: I'm guessing that comm. with DASH streaming server is done by js player code. maybe looking on player code will help?

[12:00:55]

warpme:

also we can ask on: http://lists.uni-klu.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/dash

[12:02:30]

warpme:

maybe something here: http://dl.acm.org/ft_gateway.cfm?id=2155570&a . . . KEN=72173561

[12:05:27]

warpme:

isn't MPD file which describes content like playlist in HLS?

[12:07:42]

stuartm:

it's looking like it

[12:09:28]

stuartm:

I need to find a good open source implementation of the client javascript, would save a lot of time and effort

[12:11:46]

stuartm:

there's a thorough example I might be able to work with on MSDN ... (never thought I'd ever say that)

[12:13:25]

stuartm:

although I can't use them as they appear, since they are under the MLPL (only free to use on Windows)

[12:14:12]

stuartm:

got to love MSs idea of an open source license

[12:27:00]

warpme:

stuartm: of course this isn't good enough: https://github.com/Dash-Industry-Forum/dash.js

[12:28:17]

stuartm:

warpme: that'll do

[12:28:44]

warpme:

:-)

[12:29:28]

stuartm:

although I still think I'll knock up something myself first, there's nothing I can see about MSE that would prevent it being used with our existing HLS infrastructure, that would mean we could have something working in a couple of hours instead of a couple of weeks

[12:32:00]

warpme:

i think HLS-DASH code reuse is wise idea. Many 3rd party relays on HLS so maybe adding DASH while keeping/maintaning HLS will be much welsomed by current users/3rd devs community :-p

[12:35:14]

stuartm:

we'd still want to have HLS even if we also supported DASH since iThings have native HLS support

[12:36:25]

warpme:

right. As i'm from apple camp – I'll cry if we will loose hls...

[12:43:01]

warpme:

I also agree with You that long-term goal of client-less fe must be based on standards – and DASH wins here over hls due standarization bodies involvment. How nice will be to stop all this xbmc vs fe talks with statement: hey – now we have fe without any client side code. Any size ARM device or TV or BD player can be mythtv fe – only if it is conformant to HTML5/MSE

[12:46:40]

stuartm:

webfrontend isn't likely to replace mythfrontend, it's impossible to produce something that could match up in terms of performance, functionality and usability in a web browser

[12:47:10]

stuartm:

the point of the webfrontend is to replace mythweb with something more modern, slicker and more powerful

[12:54:08]

warpme:

oh sure. I think it is worth to look on this from use-case perspective. Remote access to content is mainly for access – not control. Programing schedulles in tiny phone/tablet screen is way less convienient than on TV or LAN PC. I would say mythweb frontend may concetrate first on remote content access. Next might be mythweb replacement. From user perspective – I prefer to have mythwebfrontent (for content access) + mythweb for control over m

[12:54:16]

warpme:

removed mythweb

[12:55:03]

stuarta:

warpme: we aren't deleting mythweb anytime soon

[12:56:04]

warpme:

I know. I'm speaking only about priorities in development which will maximize versality and covering max possible usecases.

[12:56:54]

stuarta:

personally i do most of my scheduling via mythweb

[12:57:50]

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[12:58:22]

warpme:

I remember when on vacations I took my ipad, quickly build music playlist from my 30k+ song library and start to stream. ppl were shocked about this. You have party 300miles from home and You have all Your music at hand... :-)

[12:59:55]

warpme:

believe me – it was much more sexy that showing them nice web intfs for schedulle TV shows. This is just example :-)

[13:00:23]

warpme:

stuarts: me too

[13:00:40]

warpme:

s/stuarts/stuarta/

[13:11:12]

warpme:

stuartm: regarding performance, functionality and usability of fe in a web browser: I think it is worth to decompose issue into: media playback & myth control areas. Playback will be covered by HW/OS and browser and I think we can assume stable mmedia playback is given. This is oaut of our control – so we only can assume it is given. So only mythv control letf. I think (guessing here as I don't know enough js) – majority of current fe contr

[13:15:08]

warpme:

also not all fe control functions must be implemented. Maybe it is worth to ask current 0.28 users to use daily mythwebfrontend and gather all control functions which they consider missing. Next we can make list and prepare ordered list sorted by popularity....

[13:22:49]

warpme:

recently I was visiting my familly is Germany. I was nearly shocked how advanced Hbbtv services they have and how nice it can be presented by mid-class Philips LCD.

[13:28:14]

warpme:

On many major TV channels You can switch to Hbbtv and You have really nice-looking menus, lists with shows + network PVR programing interface. All this on mid-class smart TV. IIRC TV is doing all this via DASH, CE-HTML probably on small ARM.

[13:29:37]

stuarta:

warpme: these look interesting http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CZC8BOS . . . _rd_i=468294

[13:33:58]

warpme:

exactly. I believe best way of "connecting/entering" mythtv to this world is client-less fe based on HTML UI, js in browser for control and DASH for mmedia playback. IMHO it is better route than current fe rewrite for lower mem, ARM arch and OpnenMAX support.....

[13:34:58]

warpme:

doing this route we will again left xbmc in dust :-)

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[20:05:49]

stuartm:

anyone know of a tool that will dump encoding information for AVC files including the profile_idc, level_idc and constraints?

[20:26:31]

jpabq:

stuartm: Have you tried mediainfo ?

[20:27:56]

stuartm:

yeah, even with -F (full) it doesn't provide the raw info, you can work back from what it does give to the raw 2 byte values but it's a hassle to do that as you need to refer to the specs

[20:29:02]

stuartm:

I'm playing with the dash stuff and for that I need the avcoti (profile_idc/contraint/level_idc) in the codec strings for the playlist (mpd)

[20:29:49]

stuartm:

figuring out the correct string for one or two samples is one thing, doing it for a dozen will quickly get old

[20:31:14]

stuartm:

although writing a script/app to calculate them for me would take longer still – something I'll have to do ultimately when I progress from proof of concept to implementing support in mythbackend

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[21:17:21]

jpabq:

gigem: your deadlock seems to be in TFW. However, I am unable to reproduce it with my OTA (ATSC) HDhomerun. I tried setting mpexid=0 for all of my channels to try and emulate your environment, but then it won't record at all. Is there something else I can do, to try an make my OTA HDhomerun behave like your HDhomerunPrime does with multi-rec?

[21:36:59]

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[21:40:41]

gigem:

jpabq: Nothing comes to mind. It's strange there would be a problem in TFW. That's one area where I wouldn't think there would be any difference between running with and without a cable card.

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[22:18:38]

jpabq:

gigem: when this happened to you, was the recording stuck in a "tuning" state? Or was it actually recording?

[22:19:57]

jpabq:

I have just seen a similar (or same) problem when the state is Tuning, and the user tries to stop the recording.

[22:22:12]

jpabq:

only reason i said TFW, is the other locks seen in that BT seem to be legitimate. I am beginning to think is not a locking problem, but a state issue.

[22:47:55]

gigem:

jpabq: I'm pretty sure it was showing as recording. I'll try to make a little time tonight to recreate it.

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