| Saturday, March 29th, 2014, 00:41 UTC | ||
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| [04:18:43] | wagnerrp: | dekarl: ticket re-opened suggesting it's using ttvdb IDs with tmdb3.py... don't we have a ticket open for that issue already? |
| [04:18:46] | wagnerrp: | i'm not finding it |
| [04:18:59] | wagnerrp: | i know it's been a known issue for a long time |
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| [07:03:20] | jya_: | what’s the difference between DVDRingBuffer and DVDStream? |
| [07:03:32] | jya_: | Is DVDRingBuffer still use? if not, why keep it? |
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| [07:04:24] | jya_: | ah, one reads an actual disk, the other a .vob |
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| [08:53:14] | paul-h: | jya: how difficult would it be to make use of the FFmpeg Filters in the audio output? |
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| [08:53:48] | paul-h: | jya: http://ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-filters.html |
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| [08:59:20] | paul-h: | Looks like we have libavfilter in external but it's out of date |
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| [10:04:04] | stuartm: | our current built-in filter code ignores libavfilter and uses our own ancient copies of the filters in filters/ |
| [10:04:27] | stuartm: | so there would have to be a little additional work to fix that |
| [10:05:18] | stuartm: | but on the upside we really need need those fixes for HLS anyway, since we need to be able to crop and use better deinterlacers when transcoding |
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| [10:11:44] | paul-h: | stuartm: I was just looking at adding them to the audio output so we could use the graphic equaliser and replay gain filters in MythMusic but it would be nice to use them for the video side as well |
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| [10:27:12] | dekarl: | paul-h, we could add aacgain/mp3gain to preprocess the files on import into the library to avoid clippings |
| [10:29:39] | dekarl: | reminds me of #10848 – [PATCH] OSD: Add a graphical display of audio level to cut list editor |
| [10:29:39] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10848 ** | |
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| [10:47:02] | stuartm: | dekarl: not everyone will want to modify the original files, so having it as a filter in addition to or instead of that would be good |
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| [11:08:55] | paul-h: | dekarl: yeah what stuartm said. We have some users who don't even allow myth to update there tags |
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| [11:12:09] | paul-h: | It's interesting comparing the cpu usage of mythffplay with some additional filters added and there visualiser 8% and mythavtest 38% and same for MythMusic playing the background 38% |
| [11:15:50] | paul-h: | Wonder why Myth is using an extra 30% cpu to do the same thing? |
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| [11:58:51] | Apic: | Hi. |
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| [12:22:00] | stuartm: | paul-h: good question |
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| [12:41:08] | jya_: | warpme: If you could please try again devel/ringbuffer? II think the changes I’ve made should correct the problems you’ve seen. Basically i try to open the file working only in RAM for 1.5s; after that I revert to the disk-based method |
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| [13:50:22] | dekarl: | stuartm, paul-h, meh so our mythical convergence library needs a read-only (aka I know better then the crowd) section :( |
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| [15:01:36] | stuartm: | dekarl: to be honest I have some sympathy with those who don't want to risk screwing up their files, it's not as though they can easily be replaced – i.e. I have a collection of several thousands tracks from various different services, websites etc, if an automated process modified the lot during import it might be months before I find that it's damaged/corrupted a file, I don't keep backups going back that far and some files simply cannot be |
| [15:01:37] | stuartm: | replaced without re-purchasing them |
| [15:02:54] | stuartm: | I favour a less invasive approach where the 'gain' tag is the only bit of the file which is modified, then the application makes the adjustment |
| [15:04:02] | dekarl: | stuartm: what is the storage volume? Is it affordable to have a location with the pristine copies and a separate location where mythtv can fiddle with it? |
| [15:05:10] | dekarl: | I'm thinking a usual music collection is in the <50GB range so its basically the question if you can store another 2–3 bluray movies or allow for having a copy of your music |
| [15:07:03] | dekarl: | Or just do the other thing I mentioned earlier. Split your collection into "hand crafted metadata pristine files" and "new files to integrate into the library and craft metadata mythically" |
| [15:09:38] | dekarl: | I'd still like to work on the music part so I can dump my collection on mythtv and get it associated with musicbrainz records so MythMusic can get fanart, too |
| [15:11:35] | dekarl: | But that has to wait until I can finish some guide stuff |
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| [16:11:11] | stuartm: | dekarl: to be clear, I'm not against letting mythtv edit tags – in general use it only does so to increment playcount/rating anyhow and obviously if those would get wiped out with a 'pristine' copy |
| [16:13:56] | stuartm: | and yes, there are ways of working around potential issues by keeping two different copies of your files, but why bother when it's easy to implement both approaches and let the user decide which they would prefer to use? |
| [16:14:35] | dekarl: | that gives me an idea, we could just keep the original of complex operations for some time, like some do with lossless cutting, and after the first playback of a file with a registered backup copy ask "was this a plearurable experience, so we can remove the safety backup?" |
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| [16:16:10] | stuartm: | in 99% of cases, gain should be switched down, not up – it's only too loud 'pop' tracks that cause issues, so clipping shouldn't be so big of a deal |
| [16:16:12] | dekarl: | Well, the split RO/RW idea came from https://code.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/TaskBrowserBasedSetup which reminded me of the issues users have when the backend can't write to a location |
| [16:17:09] | dekarl: | I like the idea of still being able to have a working backend that uses the remaining directories of a storage group to write stuff |
| [16:19:59] | stuartm: | paul-h: no idea what method the ffmpeg gain filter uses, but the ReplayGain standard is supposed to mitigate against clipping and it's the form of gain control that is most often requested |
| [16:23:48] | dekarl: | stuartm, I was thinking of the clippings that happen in the decoding process of some mp3 files due to bad encoder settings (usually due to trying to be loud enough). The raw audio frames can be bitfiddled with to avoid the clippings before reducing the volume in a later step. |
| [16:23:50] | dekarl: | e.g. http://aacgain.altosdesign.com/ – "It works by modifying the global_gain fields in the aac samples." (the mp3gain site is not that explicit about how the lossless gain adjustment works) |
| [16:28:18] | dekarl: | stuartm, having ReplayGain would be very welcome for recordings (and videos), too. That would help with switching from a recording from private tv station (make it loud) to a bluray rip (we already have the attention, so use normal loudness) and back again. Especially at night where we don't want to wake up $child1 |
| [16:28:57] | dekarl: | Hmm, could also let the NightMode enable audio compression so the explosions don't wake up anyone |
| [16:30:38] | stuartm: | heh, building blows up on screen accompanied by the sound of a party popper |
| [16:31:47] | dekarl: | I bet no one has that in their marketing material ;) |
| [16:40:44] | dekarl: | wagnerrp: I'm not finding it either, but remember going some rounds with robertm to fix such issues before he moved on |
| [17:15:39] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: A fair time ago I remember a number of (high end at the time, probably in all now) AV receivers had a night mode loudness setting to limit the peak sound levels (and/or compress the range) and sold, exactly as you stated, to allow you to watch (for example) transfomers 2 at volume without disturbing "others". Some also claimed that it helped with US TV commercials being too loud. |
| [17:19:32] | stuartm: | eww, transformers |
| [17:20:37] | dekarl: | gary_buhrmaster: crazy. google has lots of hits for receiver+nightmode (or DRC)... and many people wondering if it will give "bad" audio (But it is still bitperfect, right?) |
| [17:27:12] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: "bad" audio is such an interesting issue. Given that three "experts" will come up with 4 different "best of" results. |
| [17:32:05] | dekarl: | I'm just browsing over http://www.avsforum.com/t/1328045/do-you-or-w . . . f-you-had-it and on the first two pages the consensus appears to be "I live alone in a free standing house" => no and "I life in the same building with other/young people and don't have a dedicated home cinema room" => yes |
| [17:32:45] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: Personally, since my hearing went downhill many years ago, I simply do not hear what the "experts" claim to hear. Depending on the compression tech used, it is certainly possible that the results could be lossless/bit perfect. |
| [17:35:31] | dekarl: | gary_buhrmaster: I was trying to hint that they appear to expect "unchanged pristine audio" but also "reduce the loud parts, the dynamic and the low frequencies" which is an oxymoron :) |
| [17:36:03] | stuartm: | I'd be impressed if someone could fix the audio in on-demand films on Virgin Media (cable), not sure what they do but with just the TVs stereo speakers it's sometimes impossible to hear what characters are saying :) |
| [17:36:52] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: Perhaps the cable company is trying to save you from some inane discussions :-) |
| [17:37:21] | stuartm: | suspect that the muddy audio would be greatly improved if I hooked up even a half-decent set of multi-channel speakers |
| [17:38:33] | stuartm: | though that doesn't readily explain why no other sources are affected |
| [17:40:44] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: People often have unreasonable expectations. The secret it to tell them they are getting what they want, and making them believe it (delivering it is optional). |
| [17:43:58] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: With the rare exception, TV speakers are crap, and have gone downhill with the flatness craze for the TV itself. Tough to make a good speaker (at a reasonable price) in 10mm. |
| [17:44:05] | dekarl: | stuartm, its all in the mix :) (is that NVOD that can be recorded?) |
| [17:45:17] | stuartm: | dekarl: stb is hdmi only, so more difficult to record even if they aren't using hdcp |
| [17:45:37] | stuartm: | certainly not something that can be fixed through mythtv unfortunately :/ |
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| [17:46:51] | dekarl: | stuartm, I see, I was thinking in terms of CI/CAM in your backend |
| [17:47:59] | stuartm: | dekarl: ah, no verboten by Cable company T&Cs, you can only use their equipment |
| [17:48:10] | stuartm: | they don't offer CAMs |
| [17:48:39] | stuartm: | hence although I have the cable subscription, it doesn't get a lot of use |
| [17:48:51] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: "You shall do it our way, and you shall like it!". Good to know all cable companies think alike. |
| [17:49:19] | stuartm: | same deal for (pay) satellite |
| [17:50:20] | stuartm: | but we have plenty of decent FTA channnels in the UK (and few good pay channels) so the situation is a little better than the US |
| [17:54:42] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: This is (definitely) off-topic, but as the Govt/BBC re-evaluates what they should be in the future, how might that change? The Economist covers it a bit, but just in summary details. |
| [17:55:49] | dekarl: | stuartm they need to be reminded of 2008/63/EG ;) |
| [17:57:04] | dekarl: | so the european guideline is pro customer, but every country has to adapt it into local law first (yeah) |
| [17:57:14] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: (and the only way I get legitimately get BBC in the US is that I have to have a cable subscription, and I need my regular BBC fix.) |
| [17:58:07] | stuartm: | gary_buhrmaster: all depends on how much they are swayed by a vocal minority (and shills paid by the pay tv companies), fact is that the BBC is still the highest quality source of TV material in the UK – there's some suggestion that they might be required to go to a subscription model in future instead of a tax model but IMHO that would kill them dead |
| [17:59:10] | stuartm: | those most opposed to the BBC in it's current form are companies like Sky (Murdoch Empire) who want everyone to pay them for programming instead |
| [18:01:28] | stuartm: | and power of Murdoch to influence those in power shouldn't be underestimated (remember the evil Elliot Carver in the Bond film Tomorrow Never Dies? That was based on Murdoch ...) |
| [18:02:31] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: Well, you can't blame Murdoch for wanting to make money. You can blame people for being able to be (or wanting to be) bought. |
| [18:02:39] | stuartm: | the real question for the BBC is how their model works when more and more people are watching stuff online – the TV 'license' is only required to watch (or record) stuff live |
| [18:03:42] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: Right, it was the transition to online viewing (and the licensing model) that I was most interesting in knowing about. |
| [18:04:24] | stuartm: | gary_buhrmaster: well I can suggest that at a certain point people like Murdoch have more than 'enough' money and they don't need to operate their businesses in such an unethical manner |
| [18:06:59] | stuartm: | Murdoch has a virtual monoply in newsprint, TV and radio – even if that business never expanded from it's present size he's still making millions/billions a year – there comes a point where pure greed/power becomes the motivation rather than the basic desire to earn money |
| [18:08:41] | stuartm: | gary_buhrmaster: there's a lot of uncertainty about the future, no conclusions have been reached yet, although it has recently been decided that failure to pay the license/tax will be decriminalised and made a purely civil matter in the future |
| [18:09:53] | dekarl: | stuartm: why is the BBC iPlayer only 7 days behind? Over here its because private corporations got custom laws |
| [18:10:25] | dekarl: | many people over here expect the tv license to pay for the full public tv archive on demand (but don't get it) |
| [18:10:53] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: My solution to the Murdoch empire is to minimize my consumption of their content. In the US, at least, that is easier to do, since they do not (yet?) own the NYTimes, although it does own the WSJ now. |
| [18:11:04] | dekarl: | obviously there are people who are afraid that they'll be out of business soon when that ever happens |
| [18:16:27] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: The entire funding/distribution model of content is clearly changing in ways that will result in winners and losers. And if I was smart enough to know which were which, I would buy lots of stock options (call or put, as appropriate) and create my own empire :-) |
| [18:17:51] | dekarl: | that's easy, those who don't adapt will be losers ;) |
| [18:19:20] | gary_buhrmaster: | dekarl: I am still not exactly sure which side I should be on in the (upcoming) Aereo case in the US Supreme Court (not that my opinion matters to them). But regardless of the outcome of this case, the entire content creation and distribution system is changing. |
| [18:24:17] | gary_buhrmaster: | stuartm: Thanks for the insights. |
| [18:54:21] | stuartm: | dekarl: well that's a good question, one of the BBCs sources of income is from selling off the rights to the stuff they've commissioned to other channels, and also DVD sales which would be undermined if stuff was archived permanently |
| [18:55:39] | stuartm: | in practice although the iplayer only lists stuff for 7 days (that's the minimum, it's sometimes much longer), they do repeat most things weeks or months after their first air date so even if you miss it the first time you can catch it later |
| [18:57:36] | dekarl: | is there any available database on vod content out there, besides atlas? I looked at the xbmc vod plugins and there is lots of content available, nicely sorted by service that its available from (/yawn) |
| [18:57:55] | dekarl: | would make mythnetvision so much better then xbmc :) |
| [18:58:39] | stuartm: | gary_buhrmaster: sorry I can't be more useful, except for a privledge few most people know little about what will happen with the BBC – it's apparently being discussed/debated at high levels but no firm recommendations or decisions have yet been made public |
| [18:58:50] | dekarl: | stuartm, I think I'll start with getting the inetref from the guide to the database so we can have watchlists for movie recordings :) |
| [18:59:29] | stuartm: | as with most features, it's usually best to start small and then build on that :) |
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| [23:33:37] | jya: | libavfilter in myth has been kept as up to date as the rest of ffmpeg |
| [23:38:32] | stuartm: | it's just not actually used :/ |
| [23:40:11] | jya: | there’s a series of patch in track on how to add ReplayGain… But didn’t like their solution |
| [23:40:17] | jya: | very messy |
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