| Friday, December 20th, 2013, 00:38 UTC | ||
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| [09:02:11] | stuarta: | stuartm: oh i do plan to use much duct tape to keep it working |
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| [09:38:39] | stuartm: | well do take a look at the internal version, maybe it won't be as bad as you think :) |
| [09:39:00] | stuarta: | oh i will |
| [09:44:35] | stuartm: | trying to decide whether I add the SSL or websocket support to the internal server as a more adventurous project for those quiet moments over Christmas, or whether I leave it to Daniel since he so kindly offered and he knows the internals of the server better than anyone |
| [09:45:19] | stuarta: | stuartm: i was just thinking the best way to "secure" the internal webserver, and the suggestion i have is to make sure it works as a proxy http server, and leave the security up to the normal webservers that all the distro's do security for |
| [09:45:51] | stuarta: | ie. <internet> ... <apache|nginx|lighttd...> .... <mythbackend> |
| [09:46:40] | stuarta: | those sort of configurations in the webservers are no more than about 10 lines and would be simple to prepare conf snippets for each webserver |
| [09:47:45] | stuarta: | what do you think? |
| [09:48:21] | stuarta: | lets be honest, we don't do security analysis and response. that's a full time job |
| [09:48:48] | stuarta: | i'm tempted to send an email about this to get some feedback |
| [09:49:23] | ** stuarta decides to send ** | |
| [09:52:28] | stuartm: | stuarta: no objection to that being done on top of whatever security we implement by default in the internal server, but I do want authentication, ssl and general safety/security to be baked in |
| [09:53:54] | stuartm: | and those are all fairly trivial tasks – we already have authentication support, QT provides SSL support |
| [09:57:05] | stuartm: | the services API (utilising the internal server), which people are already exposing without protection to the internet, needs to be secure and crash-free any way |
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| [12:19:35] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, is there any reason to expose the service API unprocted on the internet? The only thing I came up with is restricted corporate proxies so you can watch at work. Everony else can use PPTP for a bit of protection |
| [12:27:44] | stuartm: | dekarl: ease of use mainly, but even then, not unprotected – we should still require authentication and encryption (to protect those credentials) |
| [12:29:55] | stuartm: | our competitors (OSS and Commercial) are all offering Android/IOS/MS apps to schedule recordings while your away from home, they work 'out of the box' – I really wouldn't blame users who said "screw that" if we told them they must setup and use a VPN or similar just for that purpose |
| [12:31:36] | stuartm: | point is, that whatever we tell users to do, there will still be some who ignore that advice or who are simply ignorant of it – that's why there are so many unprotected mythweb installations |
| [12:32:08] | stuartm: | one of the points of building in the security is to protect those users |
| [12:32:19] | dekarl-work: | following the market is a valid point. But I'd rather see us scheduling the watchlist from themoviedb :D http://www.themoviedb.org/account/YOUR ACCOUNT NAME/watchlist/movies => http://docs.themoviedb.apiary.io/#get-%2F3%2F . . . ie_watchlist |
| [12:33:12] | dekarl-work: | Maybe I can take a look at that once I have the ids from themoviedb in mythtv's guide data |
| [12:35:11] | stuartm: | I probably wouldn't be arguing for this if it was something really difficult to achieve, but it's really not, as I've noted here and on the mailing list, QT provides SSL support, it's a straight(ish) replacement for the existing QT server code we're using, we just subclass QTCPServer with only that's setup to negiotiate a secure socket – they even document this exact scenario |
| [12:35:52] | dekarl-work: | I'm not against it. Its just low priority on my list ;) |
| [12:36:06] | stuartm: | we already have the http authentication (which is generally considered to be very secure), we don't need to roll our own login mechanism |
| [12:36:43] | stuartm: | so let's use both, costs us very little |
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| [12:52:04] | dekarl-work: | Hmm, a custom recording rule with "program_type=movie and inetref in (list of ids from the watchlist api)" should be all it takes. The user can the add "only in HD" or "only on ad free channels" via the check boxes. |
| [12:52:29] | dekarl-work: | Can I add/update a custom recording rule via the service API? I'm not finding anything on that. |
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| [12:56:09] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: no, currently there's no way of creating or editing a custom recording rule |
| [12:56:40] | dekarl-work: | ok, that can wait until I have a prototype working |
| [12:56:58] | stuartm: | it's going to be interesting to find a way of allowing that without passing sql in directly (which is something we want to avoid) |
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| [13:02:32] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, isn't a custom rule defined as "a rule plus custom sql"? |
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| [13:29:34] | stuartm: | yes, that's the dilemma |
| [13:45:35] | dekarl-work: | hmm, execute the sql for rule matches with a readonly account? |
| [13:47:34] | dekarl-work: | then recording all movies of the well known actor bobby tables will leave the db intact. (maybe automagically disable the rule if the sql throws an error) http://xkcd.com/327/ |
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| [13:48:49] | johnbergqvist: | Hi. Havent posted on here in a while. |
| [13:50:20] | johnbergqvist: | I'm having a slight argument with the developers of the tv_grab_uk_atlas XMLTV grabber. Unlike the Radio Times grabber (which is slowly being depreciated), no information is given as to whether a program is in HD or not, so even though i'm importing data from HD channels, the programs don't get marked as being in HD. |
| [13:51:07] | johnbergqvist: | Now the maintainer of the Atlas grabber doesn't want any additional information being inserted into the data, so he's saying it's an issue for the MythTV team to solve (marking all programs from an HD channel as HD), not him. |
| [13:51:36] | johnbergqvist: | This is what he's said. "I do not feel it is appropriate for a "grabber" to be inventing data where none exist. You need to take these up with the MythTV project. The boundary stops at creating a programme listings XML file which conforms to the xmltv.dtd – any issues with importing the data into other software is obviously outside of my control." |
| [13:51:50] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: didn't have time to reply to him yet, sorry |
| [13:52:29] | johnbergqvist: | So basically, in theory, is it possible for mythfilldatabase to mark each program as HD, when importing the data into the database, assuming the channel's XML id has an "hd." in front of it? |
| [13:52:45] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: no, thats the job of the grabber :D |
| [13:52:59] | johnbergqvist: | Thats what I thought, but the maintainer things differently :P |
| [13:53:32] | johnbergqvist: | I mean I believe the maintainers of the Radio Times grabbers did alter the data themselves, for the HD channels, but this guy doesn't want to do that for Atlas. |
| [13:53:45] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: maybe one way of doing it, read-only and restricted to relevant tables e.g. no access to settings, or other places where passwords or other sensitive info may be stored |
| [13:54:42] | dekarl-work: | the idea is that you have a data source specific grabber that fiddles the data until it matches the common expectations. aka mixing explicit (provided by upstream) data with implicit, data source specific (provided by the grabber), data so that every consumer (e.g. mythtv) doesn't have to add fixup for each and every datasource. |
| [13:55:05] | stuartm: | johnbergqvist: talk to Nick Morrot, the guy behind the RT grabber, he's currently writing an atlas based version and he should be amenable to doing things correctly |
| [13:55:13] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: so we are traing N*M sets of "voodoo rules" for N sets |
| [13:55:25] | johnbergqvist: | No, he's not writing the atlas version anymore, he's handed it off to this new guy, who's working on his own implementation of it :( |
| [13:55:33] | dekarl-work: | ohh and what stuartm says |
| [13:55:42] | johnbergqvist: | Geoff is his name. |
| [13:55:52] | johnbergqvist: | Nick stopped work on the Atlas grabber in September |
| [13:56:05] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: can I have a link to a reference? I just saw a mail pass by where Nick wrote he's still at it. (though lower priority now) |
| [13:56:05] | stuartm: | johnbergqvist: OK, then I guess I'll have to fork the atlas grabber >:( |
| [13:56:11] | stuartm: | wtf |
| [13:56:23] | johnbergqvist: | https://sourceforge.net/p/xmltv/mailman/xmltv . . . month=201312 This is me discussing (among other things) the HD issue with Geoff |
| [13:56:29] | johnbergqvist: | i'll get the post from Nick, hang on |
| [13:56:51] | stuartm: | it's clearly the job of the grabber to figure out these things |
| [13:57:17] | stuartm: | shame that Nick has given up on it |
| [13:57:19] | johnbergqvist: | That's what I thought. I mean I belive that's how the RT grabber does it. But no, according to Geoff, the grabber data is god and can't be messed about with in any way |
| [13:58:02] | johnbergqvist: | https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/atlasapi/3J8K0WO8h28 second to last post in here by Nick |
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| [13:58:39] | johnbergqvist: | I hope Nick does create a more mythtv-friendly Atlas Grabber |
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| [14:00:09] | johnbergqvist: | Good to know I have people on my side though :D |
| [14:00:18] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: "I'll still finish my grabber and MythTV utility, but there's no urgency now as Atlas is now supported in XMLTV and I have more important things to care about! " |
| [14:00:30] | dekarl-work: | best thing to tell him to "enjoy the kid" :) |
| [14:00:37] | johnbergqvist: | lol |
| [14:00:51] | johnbergqvist: | Well yeah the HD thing is admittely on ly a minor issue |
| [14:03:40] | stuartm: | it's not something I really want to make time for, but I'm quite serious about forking the atlas grabber, although perhaps I should try getting Geoff to see sense |
| [14:03:52] | johnbergqvist: | hehe |
| [14:04:28] | johnbergqvist: | Would you fork the atlas grabber and keep it in XMLTV (say as tv_grab_uk_atlas_mythtv), or would it be a part of mythtv? |
| [14:04:34] | johnbergqvist: | if you chose to fork it that is. |
| [14:05:14] | johnbergqvist: | I'd like to wait and see what Nick comes up with personally, as it seems more mythtv friendly, but someone should let him know of this though, if Geoff isn't interested. |
| [14:05:15] | stuartm: | well I'd aim to keep it in xmltv if I could, tv_grab_uk_atlas_better – failing that I'd bundle it with MythTV |
| [14:05:21] | johnbergqvist: | heh ok |
| [14:05:55] | johnbergqvist: | There's issues with the Genres of the programs too, but I think that's more to do with the data coming from the Press Association, rather than the grabber itself. |
| [14:06:06] | stuartm: | we should have to deal with this nonsense |
| [14:06:41] | johnbergqvist: | indeed :D |
| [14:06:47] | stuartm: | shouldn't |
| [14:07:06] | johnbergqvist: | yeah |
| [14:07:34] | stuartm: | I'd implement other fixups too, where appropriate – if information can reliably be determined from the source data |
| [14:08:54] | johnbergqvist: | Well with the RT grabber, we have a fixup's file manually written by Nick, which helps to iron out inconsistent genres, which would be nice if that could be integrated with the atlas grabber too |
| [14:09:23] | johnbergqvist: | then we have a problem of the actual data from the PA having multiple genres, and it appears that the grabber is just picking from one of those for each program at random |
| [14:09:23] | johnbergqvist: | :S |
| [14:09:25] | johnbergqvist: | which is odd. |
| [14:09:35] | johnbergqvist: | I haven't looked into it too much though. I am but a humble user. |
| [14:09:53] | dekarl-work: | well the new grabber was Geoff's personal project to scratch his itch that he offered for others to take a peek at. I think it was me who talked him into joining the xmltv crowd :) So give him some time to come up to the _uk_rt grabber's standard (which is quite high) |
| [14:10:04] | stuartm: | "I do not feel it is appropriate for a 'grabber' to be inventing data where none exist." ... only it _does_ exist |
| [14:10:33] | johnbergqvist: | does it exist? Geoff has said that zero data on whether a program is actually in HD or not is contained within Atlas. |
| [14:10:43] | johnbergqvist: | unless he's missed something out. |
| [14:11:48] | stuartm: | it's contained in the xmltvid, no? |
| [14:12:45] | johnbergqvist: | yes. |
| [14:12:55] | johnbergqvist: | but not in the actual data that's pased down from Atlas/the PA |
| [14:13:03] | johnbergqvist: | the atlas ids are just characters |
| [14:13:08] | johnbergqvist: | like cbbh for BBC one I think |
| [14:13:28] | johnbergqvist: | it gets mapped to a readable ID by another file. |
| [14:14:40] | stuartm: | doesn't matter that it's not in the source data, the point is that he has access to the information already, no requirement exists to maintain a separate list of HD channels in addition to what's already being done |
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| [14:16:19] | dekarl-work: | he has not dealed with real tv station data yet... some stations do not want to tell you which programs are native hd and which are upscaled... So just flagging the whole channel as "HDish" is the only thing we can do. |
| [14:16:22] | stuartm: | I need to look at the raw atlas data and grabber output, see what else is missing when compared to uk_rt |
| [14:17:13] | dekarl-work: | doesn't it all come down to Nick using MythTV and Geoff not? (IIRC) |
| [14:17:20] | johnbergqvist: | probably |
| [14:17:30] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: even upscaled is significantly better quality than SD, and for the purposes of any application it's only that distinction that really matters |
| [14:17:38] | johnbergqvist: | But yeah, the Radio Times grabber just flagged the entire channel as HD |
| [14:17:41] | johnbergqvist: | and that's good enough for MythTB |
| [14:17:43] | johnbergqvist: | *MythTV |
| [14:18:02] | johnbergqvist: | I don't see why he can't do the same thing with the Atlas HD channels... |
| [14:18:22] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, well that's due to the particularly crappy SD encoders and bandwidth (over here that is) :D |
| [14:18:57] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: pretty much everywhere I expect :) |
| [14:19:31] | johnbergqvist: | i just feel that the way the RT does it would work fine with atlas too. |
| [14:21:02] | stuartm: | ditto |
| [14:21:10] | ** stuartm dons the war paint ** | |
| [14:21:29] | johnbergqvist: | Well, the mailing list is there if you would like to contribute ;) |
| [14:21:42] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: do you have a link for the atlas format handy? |
| [14:21:47] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: crazy idea, you can always add a proper xmltv feed to atlas :) |
| [14:22:11] | johnbergqvist: | are you saying Atlas is badly organised? xD |
| [14:22:13] | dekarl-work: | then you can simply use tv_grab_se_swedb (unchanged sind like 10 years) to pull it into mythtv |
| [14:22:14] | johnbergqvist: | I don't know that much about it |
| [14:22:41] | johnbergqvist: | I'm perfectly happy with the Radio Times grabber, but that feed is depreciated now, and new channels aren't being added to it. |
| [14:23:05] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, go to the end of the page and hit run? http://atlas.metabroadcast.com |
| [14:23:22] | dekarl-work: | to see RT data you need to register for an API key though |
| [14:23:42] | stuartm: | ah-hah |
| [14:24:21] | dekarl-work: | which reminds me that we need to come up with a xmltv way of signalling "generic episode" |
| [14:24:22] | johnbergqvist: | The API explorer is sort of broken |
| [14:24:26] | stuartm: | ooh, programme images |
| [14:24:50] | johnbergqvist: | Well, with the RT data, if it didn't have a "Syndicated Episode Number" then it was pretty much guaranteed to be a generic one |
| [14:24:56] | stuartm: | <highDefinition> |
| [14:25:00] | stuartm: | it IS signalled |
| [14:25:05] | johnbergqvist: | Yes, it would be nice if it would aquire the images in HD. |
| [14:25:09] | stuartm: | https://atlas.metabroadcast.com/3.0/schedule. . . . 0:00:00.000Z |
| [14:25:31] | johnbergqvist: | that won't work |
| [14:25:40] | johnbergqvist: | you need to change the publisher to pressassociation.com |
| [14:25:46] | johnbergqvist: | because thats the data that is used by atlas. |
| [14:26:09] | johnbergqvist: | and for that, you need an API key ;) |
| [14:27:46] | johnbergqvist: | the atlas data can work from multiple sources |
| [14:28:01] | johnbergqvist: | either form the BBC or from the press association (the latter you need an api key to access) |
| [14:28:06] | stuartm: | you can't see that I'm rolling my eyes, so I'll tell you that's what I'm doing right now ;) |
| [14:28:28] | stuartm: | assuming the BBC data is limited to their channels? |
| [14:28:35] | johnbergqvist: | Yes |
| [14:28:44] | johnbergqvist: | Right, i've had a look at the PA data |
| [14:28:56] | dekarl-work: | just add an adapter for fanart.tv and themoviedb.com |
| [14:29:08] | johnbergqvist: | lets just look at the HD stuff rirst |
| [14:29:10] | johnbergqvist: | *first |
| [14:29:33] | johnbergqvist: | in the PA data, i've found the following flags: "subtitled":true,"signed":false,"audio_described": false,"high_definition":false,"widescreen":true,"surrou nd":false,"live":false,"premier":false,"new_series ":false,"new_episode":false," |
| [14:29:40] | dekarl-work: | _uk_atlas only uses plain RT data without BBC (or other) overlays |
| [14:29:54] | johnbergqvist: | you mean Press association data, not RT data? |
| [14:30:21] | dekarl-work: | the key with atlas is to overlay the broad RT data with e.g. BBC data and fanart.tv (nag nag) images |
| [14:30:31] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: um, yes |
| [14:30:50] | johnbergqvist: | im confused now |
| [14:30:56] | stuartm: | johnbergqvist: is the high_definition flag correctly set for HD channels? |
| [14:31:04] | johnbergqvist: | it appears to be set for individual programs |
| [14:31:10] | johnbergqvist: | which is better than nothing xD |
| [14:31:11] | stuartm: | not seeing how to apply for an API key |
| [14:31:30] | dekarl-work: | need to setup a wiki page with links to the relevant blog posts over at http://metabroadcast.com/blog/ |
| [14:31:33] | stichnot: | dekarl-work: On my poor old Ubuntu 10.04 system, commit 59b4b6c967d28fc803be1248fe3d509a00ad9c2f causes a build error – http://pastebin.com/4vfYQ2kn . I am not actually using_jack, so it doesn't matter to me, but probably the configure script should be sorting that out. |
| [14:31:37] | stuartm: | johnbergqvist: definitely, and contradicts what Geoff seemed to be saying |
| [14:31:52] | johnbergqvist: | you need to email: atlas@metabroadcast.com |
| [14:32:02] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, http://atlas.metabroadcast.com/admin/ plus email to get PA data |
| [14:32:33] | stuartm: | twitter? really? |
| [14:33:17] | dekarl-work: | ^- the wiki page would link to "we start with twitter, fork and send a pull request if you want something else" :D |
| [14:33:23] | stuartm: | well, guess we could register an official twitter account for MythTV, it would be completely dead but ... |
| [14:33:39] | johnbergqvist: | Email them stuart at the address I linked. |
| [14:33:41] | johnbergqvist: | thats how i got it. |
| [14:34:39] | dekarl-work: | maybe /admin is not there yet. on stage you can nicely configure your applications and apply for PA data without email. I wonder when that is going to hit production |
| [14:35:26] | dekarl-work: | talking about http://stage.atlas.metabroadcast.com/admin |
| [14:36:19] | dekarl-work: | allows you to preconfigure the order of overlays for equivalent data already |
| [14:36:47] | johnbergqvist: | oh :/ |
| [14:37:11] | johnbergqvist: | didnt know that existed lol |
| [14:39:05] | stuartm: | dekarl-work: so we just need to configure the overlay, and fork the existing grabber, add support for parsing the format flags and point it our own feed? |
| [14:39:56] | stichnot: | stuartm: sorry for interrupting :) . I just checked the latest webfrontend and it's looking great. My remaining comments: (1) I'd love to get channel numbers in the program guide (callsigns like "KGO-HD" and "LIVWELL" are much less meaningful to me). (2) Would be nice in the program guide for the mouseover text to include title+subtitle, at least for the cases where title or subtitle are... |
| [14:39:58] | stichnot: | ...truncated in the grid. (3) In the program guide I'd rather not have to scroll all the way to the top to find the time range for the page. (4) For some reason, the Recordings page will never show me more than 10 recordings. (5) For the Upcoming Recordings page, is there any reason why the entire page can't be fetched at once, instead of that dynamic updating trick? |
| [14:40:09] | stuartm: | requested an API key in the name of the MythTV project, so we can potentially re-use it for grabbing other stuff (I want those programme images in the guide) |
| [14:41:57] | johnbergqvist: | Yes, i noticed that the images the grabber provides could be used as fanart and coverart etc. |
| [14:42:04] | johnbergqvist: | along with channel icons even |
| [14:42:10] | stuartm: | stichnot: I had it showing title/subtitle and description on mouseover where they were truncated, unfortunately it only worked for some browsers, so I may have to go with the 'dumb' solution of always showing them even though that duplicates the information on-screen |
| [14:42:24] | johnbergqvist: | The press assocation data also includes such images, it's not limited to the BBC data too. |
| [14:43:09] | johnbergqvist: | Apparently it's £200 a quarter if the Press Association believe you're making money off their data, but that looks to be unlikely if it's open-source. |
| [14:43:44] | stuartm: | stichnot: the recordings page should update the way the upcoming recordings page does, both are for speed/bandwidth reasons – it will be a configurable option for those that prefer to load everything at once |
| [14:44:22] | stuartm: | johnbergqvist: that's a lot less than SD have to pay Tribune for their guide data :) |
| [14:44:26] | johnbergqvist: | heh |
| [14:44:38] | johnbergqvist: | the only downside with all the images, is that they're not in HD :( |
| [14:44:46] | johnbergqvist: | so the fanart style ones would look rubbish blown up |
| [14:45:17] | stuartm: | there they are paying tens of thousands a year |
| [14:45:35] | johnbergqvist: | wow |
| [14:45:56] | stuartm: | that's SD, not SD users, who pay something like $20 a year each |
| [14:46:20] | johnbergqvist: | by the way, has anyone fixed the Mythweb channel info page not working yet? |
| [14:46:30] | stuartm: | johnbergqvist: yeah, from looking at them, I was really only imagining using them as we would a preview image/video |
| [14:47:06] | stichnot: | stuartm: the "dumb" solution seems fine to me, worth a try I guess. I'll wait for the configurable full-page-load option, but I have no idea why one is working but not the other (using Chrome 31). |
| [14:47:28] | johnbergqvist: | well lets not get ahead of ourselves :P |
| [14:47:39] | johnbergqvist: | but that would be a great idea though |
| [14:47:45] | stuartm: | stichnot: both work fine here with Chromium, Firefox and Opera |
| [14:48:20] | johnbergqvist: | Although if we could integrate our own grabber from the atlas data, that would be sweet, cos all the info is there. |
| [14:48:31] | johnbergqvist: | even for the Radio channels too |
| [14:48:31] | stuartm: | they use the exact same javascript |
| [14:50:21] | stuartm: | wagnerrp_: I think he was saying that mfdb is running automatically – which it might, don't know offhand if the housekeeper even checks whether it's needed |
| [14:50:54] | stuartm: | wagnerrp_: the other obvious problem is that it shouldn't be trying to contact SD unless SD credentials have been configured |
| [14:52:45] | stuartm: | with all that excitement I've completely forgotten what I was supposed to be doing |
| [14:53:21] | stichnot: | stuartm: exact same behavior here with Firefox 26. Weird. |
| [14:53:41] | stuartm: | any errors in the browser console, or backend logs? |
| [14:54:10] | johnbergqvist: | It always panicks me whenever I get a dropped recording |
| [14:54:22] | johnbergqvist: | cos I never know when it's going to happen again :/ |
| [14:54:30] | stuartm: | stichnot: OK, just checked, it's broken here too ... was definitely working the other day, wonder what I did to break it |
| [14:54:50] | stichnot: | ok, cool :) |
| [14:58:50] | johnbergqvist: | I've broached the issue of the HD flags being in the PA data, if any of you also want to chip in: https://sourceforge.net/p/xmltv/mailman/xmltv . . . month=201312 :) |
| [15:00:39] | stuartm: | ah, oops |
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| [15:13:38] | dekarl-work: | stichnot, ubuntu 10.04 does not ship with the new API for Jack? |
| [15:14:17] | dekarl-work: | meh. the old has been deprecated for a year, I expected the new one to have existed earlier then taht |
| [15:15:20] | stuartm: | so had a reply from Atlas/Metadabroadcast, they want to know if we'll be redistributing the key ... |
| [15:17:44] | dekarl-work: | stuartm: http://xmltv.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/xmltv . . . w=markup#l29 :D |
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| [15:19:47] | stuartm: | so a key per user? Hardly a drop in replacement for the RT grabber |
| [15:20:05] | stuartm: | guess I'll be telling them 'development only' for now |
| [15:20:40] | dekarl-work: | re twitter auth http://metabroadcast.com/blog/what-if-you-nee . . . of-the-night "It's not our plan to roll our own auth, but we have discussed adding, for example, Google or Github, if demand was there. Finally, all the code is open-source, and we welcome contributions if someone wants something different." |
| [15:23:19] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, do you dig java? thats the old RT TSV feed https://github.com/atlasapi/atlas-feeds/tree/ . . . /feeds/xmltv I was thinking that directly exporting MythTV (we're the leaders of the pack after all) compatible XMLTV files according to that API http://www.oztivo.net/twiki/bin/view/TVGuide/StaticXMLGuideAPI would be simplest |
| [15:24:06] | dekarl-work: | I researched the options and the feed can be done stateless / state only in the export. And fits well to S3 storage that is used for the RT feed |
| [15:24:34] | dekarl-work: | due to the absence of german stations the priority is not so high on my list :D |
| [15:36:16] | dekarl-work: | stichnot: if we want to support master on Ubuntu 10.04 we should get a bulid slave setup, that why I thought everything is fine :( http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/buildslaves |
| [15:36:44] | johnbergqvist: | Yeah Stuartm, Atlas is still in Beta. there won't be a key requirement (I blelieve) once atlas is final |
| [15:37:15] | stuartm: | emailed them back, will see what they say |
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| [15:38:37] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: I thought thats what the new self service is being built for. To get keys to every user without lots of manual fiddling |
| [15:38:47] | johnbergqvist: | I have no idea |
| [15:40:19] | stuartm: | that's one of the questions I asked, basically "You can't expect an application to require their users individually request a key by email" |
| [15:40:53] | stuartm: | wagnerrp_: we can force the proxy where necessary with socket->setProxy(QNetworkProxy::NoProxy); |
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| [15:41:51] | stichnot: | dekarl-work: it would be fine with me to disable jack in the configure script for versions lacking the required API |
| [15:42:25] | johnbergqvist: | OK, well we've had the HD info from the Press Association data put into atlas now, so at least we've got HD flags for programs that are in true HD (i.e not upscaled) |
| [15:42:41] | johnbergqvist: | https://sourceforge.net/p/xmltv/mailman/message/31772671/ |
| [15:43:00] | dekarl-work: | stichnot: sounds like a good solution. If you want the latest mythtv backported / build from source we expect you to do the same for Jack or live without it. |
| [15:44:02] | johnbergqvist: | Although as with some of the other PA data, looks like that HD flag isn't always accurate -_- |
| [15:44:32] | dekarl-work: | stichnot: should I try to come up with a patch and can you test it? Or can you do that? (no Ubuntu 10.04 makes it hard to test) |
| [15:45:26] | johnbergqvist: | oh god. |
| [15:45:30] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: you really need to look at the data that goes into PA (aka raw tv station deliverable). Afterwards you'll just love PA for their work and quality :D |
| [15:45:51] | johnbergqvist: | Turns out the HD flag gets set to true on Any channel, assuming that channel has an HD equivilant -_- |
| [15:45:53] | johnbergqvist: | damn |
| [15:46:21] | johnbergqvist: | so for example, the program on BBC One SD will also be flagged in HD, if there is an HD simulcast available -_- |
| [15:46:24] | dekarl-work: | stuartm, lets see how that comes along http://metabroadcast.com/blog/what-if-you-nee . . . of-the-night |
| [15:46:25] | johnbergqvist: | fuck sake... |
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| [15:47:28] | johnbergqvist: | The RT feed program info also comes from the PA as well, right? |
| [15:53:20] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: the code of the feed generator is linked above :) |
| [15:53:24] | johnbergqvist: | the PA data is really inconsistent yeah, especially when it comes to genres. |
| [15:55:09] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: the TSV xmltv / RT feed carries PA data, see https://github.com/atlasapi/atlas-feeds/blob/ . . . ule.java#L55 |
| [15:55:11] | johnbergqvist: | I already have an API key, if that's what you were getting at |
| [15:55:13] | johnbergqvist: | ah OK |
| [15:55:40] | johnbergqvist: | So in theory the data should be identical right? But I know that Nick has had to patch the RT data to fix up the PA's incosistencies, correct? |
| [15:56:47] | johnbergqvist: | yet the guy who does the Atlas grabber, refuses to do that. |
| [16:02:34] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: if you take some time and look at the code of the rt-feed and the _uk_rt grabber you can spot where the differences come from, e.g. https://github.com/atlasapi/atlas-feeds/blob/ . . . enreMap.java |
| [16:03:07] | johnbergqvist: | Ohhh |
| [16:03:16] | johnbergqvist: | is that for the atlas grabber or the RT grabber/ |
| [16:03:17] | johnbergqvist: | ? |
| [16:03:35] | johnbergqvist: | cos I have a similar file to that within the atlas grabber, yet instead of them all as drama, they're all individual genres. |
| [16:04:19] | dekarl-work: | be gentle. he just jumped into the "xmltv service provider" pool at the deep end (being judged based on expectations from _uk_rt ). So give him some time to learn to swim before scaring him away :D |
| [16:04:36] | johnbergqvist: | ah, yes it does match up |
| [16:04:39] | johnbergqvist: | sweet |
| [16:05:07] | dekarl-work: | XmlTvFeedGenreMap is the code that is run by metabroadcast to convert raw Atlas into RT XMLTV feed |
| [16:05:43] | johnbergqvist: | ahhh. |
| [16:05:51] | johnbergqvist: | that code is a godsend |
| [16:06:05] | johnbergqvist: | cos i've been working privately to simplify the default Mythweb genre categories |
| [16:09:54] | johnbergqvist: | and implementing that within the atlas grabber will also prevent this issue people are getting, whereby shows get flagged in similar yet overly specific genres |
| [16:10:28] | johnbergqvist: | he needs to get over his mindset of "don't alter the data", but i suspect if we fork off the atlas grabber for mythtv, we could make use of these |
| [16:11:10] | dekarl-work: | and you could add postprocessing using the _uk_rt mechanics by adding the code to handle http://supplement.xmltv.org/tv_grab_uk_rt/prog_titles_to_process |
| [16:12:07] | dekarl-work: | then you only need to look if the lineups from atlas can do the same as nick's hand crafted data and you have a similar solution to what nick is doing :D |
| [16:12:15] | johnbergqvist: | yeah |
| [16:12:17] | johnbergqvist: | im not good enough |
| [16:13:12] | dekarl-work: | johnbergqvist: ^- also a subtile hint that you may be duplicating work that is already done. Maybe you can offer Nick to join forces and base your MythAtlas grabber on his _uk_rt_"tng" grabber? |
| [16:13:32] | johnbergqvist: | As i said, I wouldn't know what to do |
| [16:19:07] | johnbergqvist: | I need to get hold of Nick's email for a start |
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| [16:41:17] | johnbergqvist: | Looks like we'll have to fork the grabber unless Geoff wants to compromise on things |
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| [16:55:13] | stichnot: | dekarl: I'll be happy to test a patch if you have one. Otherwise I'll have to spend a few minutes spinning up on what the API change is and how to integrate. :) |
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| [17:39:20] | johnbergqvist: | Looks like the Atlas grabber is pulling in different genres at each time -_- |
| [17:39:26] | johnbergqvist: | too tired for this now |
| [17:45:04] | stuartm: | so the word back from Atlas is that keys cannot be distributed, ever and they will expire every few months ... f**k me ... |
| [17:45:28] | wagnerrp: | how are you supposed to use the keys if you cannot distribute them, that makes no sense |
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| [17:45:39] | wagnerrp: | are they requiring that we proxy access to the content? |
| [17:45:43] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: if you want more than that, you have to pay |
| [17:46:07] | wagnerrp: | or that each individual user subscribe for their own key? |
| [17:46:21] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: it's not bandwidth, it's the copyright on the data, they say ITV haven't waived those rights |
| [17:47:31] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: it would have to be that each subscriber request their own key and they'd have to renew it – not that unlike SD, but it will be a culture shock to UK users who have been getting this data free for years with no such hassle |
| [17:47:53] | wagnerrp: | that's basically what we had with the old zap2it |
| [17:48:05] | stuartm: | what a mess :( |
| [17:48:13] | wagnerrp: | every 3–4 months, we had to fill out some survey |
| [17:49:51] | jnylen: | Holy shit, didn't know it was that wrong |
| [17:49:53] | jnylen: | :/ |
| [17:50:10] | stuartm: | though frankly I'd be cheeky enough to suggest that Atlas provided a feed without ITV – very few people would actually notice |
| [17:51:42] | stuartm: | they do say they are working on changing ITV's mind and also making it easier to manage the keys, but nothing may come of that and we can only trust what's true right now |
| [17:53:08] | stuartm: | it's not really a tenable situation for xmltv users, when I requested a key I got the third degree – still haven't been issued one and probably won't now before Christmas seeing how it's 6pm on a Friday |
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| [18:21:24] | johnbergqvist: | well how about we proceed as is so far? |
| [18:23:34] | johnbergqvist: | i.e. fork the xmltv atlas grabber and make it a bit more myth-friendly at least? |
| [18:25:26] | stuartm: | johnbergqvist: sure |
| [18:25:31] | johnbergqvist: | cool |
| [18:25:53] | johnbergqvist: | i've just noticed that with the atlas grabber at the moment, it pulls in different genres for the same show each time it runs :S |
| [18:26:21] | stuartm: | my head is still spinning from that suggestion in Trac that we port the frontend to html |
| [18:26:36] | johnbergqvist: | No. |
| [18:26:39] | johnbergqvist: | Just No. |
| [18:26:53] | johnbergqvist: | That just strikes me as too much work. |
| [18:28:18] | stuartm: | way too much work, far more work than our entirely custom UI, and that's even before you get to all the limitations of html/javascript as a full featured (remote friendly) UI |
| [18:28:28] | johnbergqvist: | yeah. |
| [18:28:39] | johnbergqvist: | We should bin the outlandish suggestions and focus on the more practical ones |
| [18:28:53] | johnbergqvist: | like future-proofing guide data for UK users ;) |
| [18:33:14] | wagnerrp: | stuartm: but... html is a standard, so themes would just magically happen! |
| [18:33:56] | stuartm: | hehe |
| [18:35:01] | stuartm: | really crazy part is that mythui's xml is orders of magnitudes _easier_ than achieve the same experience from HTML + CSS + JS |
| [18:36:10] | stuartm: | and as the guy who did the majority of the work on both MythUI and the WebFrontend, I think I can say that with complete authority |
| [18:36:49] | stuartm: | achieving |
| [18:37:41] | stuartm: | Anyway, johnbergqvist, I make no promises of doing anything with the atlas grabber this side of Christmas, but it's on my radar now |
| [18:38:02] | johnbergqvist: | ok cool. I'm going to get in touch with Nick, maybe it would be better to use his one as a starting point? |
| [18:38:29] | wagnerrp: | i'm actually in town for the next month, so i'll actually be able to get something done |
| [18:41:18] | stuartm: | johnbergqvist: could be, depends how far along he was, but we could definitely plunder some stuff from it |
| [18:41:30] | johnbergqvist: | we should get him on board anyway |
| [18:42:06] | stuartm: | definitely |
| [18:42:07] | johnbergqvist: | i'll send him an email tomorow |
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| [19:22:57] | stuartm: | what's immediately obvious from looking at the BBC sample feed (no api key yet), is that season and total episode data is missing, it's there in the current RT feed though, which implies it must be available |
| [19:25:27] | stuartm: | ah, that's in a separate feed, so for every programme in the guide we need to made a call to the 'content' service, not exactly optimal |
| [19:35:02] | stuartm: | dekarl1: if an xmltv feed is possible, seems like it would be the best approach, we could avoid a ton of wasted bandwidth and a reasonable amount of processing power for the end-user |
| [19:35:52] | stuartm: | the existing feeds don't seem to be organised in a way that's optimal for our use |
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| [21:06:36] | MartinT: | is there a special commandline for ./configure to use ccache? |
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| [21:52:23] | dekarl1: | stuartm, we should rewrite the frontend in ce:html so it runs natively on smart tv sets! The Mythical NoFrontendFrontend :) |
| [21:53:37] | dekarl1 is now known as dekarl | |
| [21:54:19] | ** dekarl back himself on the back, even cooler than a MythBerryPi ** | |
| [21:59:42] | knightr__ is now known as knightr | |
| [22:01:52] | jheizer: | mmm I want some pie |
| [22:04:35] | dekarl: | stuartm, it should be possible to pass parameters to atlas so you get all information in one call. But putting the same logic upstream and providing a MythTV style xmltv feed appears to be easier. Maybe that feed can get around to api key issue as "just new tools for the old radio times feed" |
| [22:05:31] | dekarl: | s/around to/around the/ |
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| [22:17:31] | dekarl: | stichnot, man thats really strange... I think we are checking for the presence of Jack with exactly the function its missing over at yours http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/mythtv/configure#n5195 |
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| [22:22:39] | stichnot: | dekarl: what about the audio_jack test at line 5227? |
| [22:24:18] | MartinT: | stuartm: thanks for the commit, any notes? |
| [22:27:46] | dekarl: | stichnot: http://pastebin.com/FQ6t1SnT ? |
| [22:28:22] | dekarl: | JACK support yes |
| [22:29:18] | natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@mythtv/developer/natanojl) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | |
| [22:37:53] | stuartm: | MartinT: no, other than it was good, eerily similar actually to how we handle keypress events internally |
| [22:38:15] | MartinT: | hahah |
| [22:38:50] | MartinT: | good good... are you happy with me continuing with the work on bookmarking or is that still on the backlog? |
| [22:39:03] | stuartm: | dekarl: an xmltv-style, xmltv feed ;) |
| [22:39:28] | stuartm: | MartinT: keep it coming :) |
| [22:39:59] | MartinT: | will do... got 2 weeks off for christmas (forced or I lose the holidays), so got some time... |
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| [22:47:56] | stichnot: | dekarl: thanks, that patch correctly disables JACK support on 10.04 and enables it on 12.04, and builds without error in both. |
| [22:48:56] | dekarl: | great! thanks for testing (worksforme on 12.04, too) |
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| [22:52:18] | MartinT: | git question... I have a fork, with a branch, I'm trying to merge in the master which has some conflicting changes... what's the best process |
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