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| [14:19:14] | danielk22: | sphery: stuartm: stuarta: Is channel.conf import really worth the bother? There is really no standard for the format, with several different channel.conf formats floating about for each region and none of the formats contain all the info necessary for our schema.. |
| [14:19:33] | danielk22: | Should we just kill the import now and be done with it or try to keep the beast going? |
| [14:20:06] | sphery: | danielk22: IMHO, channel.conf import only convinces users to not use the mythtv-setup channel scanner (and not help us find issues/make it better) |
| [14:20:26] | sphery: | I'd be all for removing it... Might want to get some input from dekarl , too |
| [14:20:34] | danielk22: | dekarl: ^^^ |
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| [14:32:12] | dekarl: | I'm happy to see it gone. But the VDR channels.conf does contain everything we need for DVB channels |
| [14:34:41] | danielk22: | dekarl: hehe, should never have said "none" there is always some exception! |
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| [15:14:32] | stuartm: | danielk22: I've always felt that channels.conf import was an admission of defeat, a hack which avoids fixing outstanding scanning issues, I'd love to see it go because we'd also start getting more people reporting scanning bugs |
| [15:14:57] | stuartm: | or what sphery said (only just read further) |
| [15:16:45] | stuartm: | from a UX perspective I don't really like the channels.conf much either, it requires users to take extra steps using third party apps to do something they _should_ be able to do within our UI |
| [15:20:45] | dekarl: | there is that use case where they only download a premade "good channels.conf for *area/provider*", no external programs involved. It helps to avoid duplicate transports and duplicate channels. (the former leading to likely suboptimal reception with no easy way to fix it) |
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| [15:26:32] | dekarl: | Is there a special place to collect use cases that ChannelScanTNG should support? |
| [15:49:52] | stuartm: | kaffeine has a feature I quite liked, it allows you to filter out channels based on their default_authority – it's not perfect but for instance on Satellite you could exclude anything operated by sky.com (generally rubbish/encrypted) |
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| [15:55:14] | stuartm: | dekarl: personally I like the option of hiding channels based on a specified lineup, IMHO xmltv is best placed to provide/manage that information but it's separate stage to the actual scanning, I'd have the scanner include everything it finds then give the user the option of toggling 'visible' according to a lineup |
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| [16:03:14] | stuartm: | maybe not quite that order in the actual UI, but you get the point |
| [16:03:17] | dekarl: | stuartm: oh noes, I'd have to collect and import all the channels.conf and export in lineup format :/ |
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| [16:04:09] | dekarl: | would batch enabling/disabling by bouquet work, too? |
| [16:05:10] | dekarl: | maybe via N:M channel <-> channel_group mapping that gets seeded from bouquet or lineup |
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| [16:40:46] | stuartm: | dekarl: that's more or less what I was saying I liked about Kaffeine, it could work and it's worth considering |
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| [18:34:44] | stuartm: | Beirdo: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11205 could be the signal handling changes? |
| [18:36:50] | danielk22: | Bah, I was trying to test ClearQAM with the Ceton card and my cable operator doesn't have a single ClearQAM channel. Not even the OTA stuff I'd get with my antenna if it were hooked up today. |
| [18:36:57] | Beirdo: | let me take a look |
| [18:37:34] | Beirdo: | shouldn't be, but I guess I could test that once near my frontend :) |
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| [18:54:10] | stuartm: | Beirdo: just a guess, if X is tearing down child processes using a signal we're not handling maybe? |
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| [19:03:47] | Beirdo: | if we aren't handling it, it should use the default handlers. it's likely somehow related though |
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| [19:41:02] | danielk22: | They are probably just using SIGTERM |
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| [20:52:45] | danielk22: | gigem: Do you use the ceton with OTA signals? It doesn't work for me with either master or the ceton branch... |
| [20:55:05] | danielk22: | I'm using the 1.0.9.5 firmware |
| [21:05:37] | danielk22: | Looks like it doesn't work with 1.1.7.2 either. |
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| [21:31:37] | gigem: | danielk22: I use a cable card and 1.0.9.5 firmware. |
| [21:36:43] | danielk22: | But you tested the no-cablecard patch, right? With OTA or Cable? |
| [21:38:39] | ** skd5aner currently has a cablecard, but doesn't see the point since everything is Copy-Once :P ** | |
| [21:41:13] | danielk22: | skd5aner: TimeWarner? It really depends on the operator, some mark everything copy-freely, others mark everything copy-once, others something in-between. |
| [21:41:55] | skd5aner: | In a years time I've had Time Warner, Comcast, and Bright House Networks... currently the latter is what I have... comcast was great, while it lasted |
| [21:41:57] | stuartm: | copy-freely-but-don't-watch? |
| [21:41:58] | ** jams has a ceton but has yet to get the cable card. ** | |
| [21:42:27] | skd5aner: | danielk22: I can get the same thing via cablecard as I can get in QAM – the locals |
| [21:43:21] | danielk22: | skd5aner: Here PBS is copy-once, everything else is copy-freely in SD, and most is also copy-freely in HD. The notable exceptions are AMC and Comedy Central which I can only watch in SD. Since most of the stuff I watch is available OTA except for two programs on Comedy Central I wouldn't have cable but for my MythTV hobby.. |
| [21:43:26] | skd5aner: | stuartm: it's a cluster... but yea, that's what it equates to.... also, the latest FCC rulling isn't going to help which is going to allow cable co's to encrypt everything if they wish |
| [21:43:45] | skd5aner: | danielk22: which provider? |
| [21:44:27] | danielk22: | skd5aner: CableVision. They already encrypt the OTA channels so no ClearQAM. |
| [21:45:04] | skd5aner: | here's the recent FCC ruling – I expect QAM will be going away in the next few years – http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/10/fc . . . rvice-theft/ |
| [21:45:59] | skd5aner: | danielk22: ahh, TWC, Comcast, and BHN still leverage qam for me, so my PCI cards and HDHRs work just fine – probably about 2/3's of my recordings come from the QAM tuners |
| [21:47:03] | wagnerrp: | when they say "service theft", they're talking about people using the Clear QAM channels without a subscription, because it's not worth the cost to send a bucket truck out to physically disconnect the former customer from the network |
| [21:47:16] | skd5aner: | although that percentage is dwindling, probably closer to 50/50 now... so a large percentage of my recordings come from my HD-PVR and an STB right now... very annoying to have 1 tuner that covers 95% of my subscribed channels and 7 physical tuners that cover the other 5% |
| [21:48:17] | skd5aner: | I guess I do have my PVR-500 in still to get the analogs, in case there's no other option – but those, too, are likely on the chopping block |
| [21:48:57] | gigem: | danielk22: No, I haven't tested anything recently. If you need me to try something, I will, but my free time is very short right now so I can't promise how quickly I can get to it. |
| [21:49:30] | danielk22: | gigem: Let me try to get the original patch submitter to test... Ron, right? |
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| [21:49:48] | gigem: | Yes, Ron Frazier. |
| [21:49:56] | danielk22: | thx |
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