Wednesday, October 10th, 2012, 00:00 UTC | ||
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[00:00:19] | skd5aner: | give me a min, my machine is rebooting now, but for whatever reason didn't get it's DHCP reservation :P |
[00:00:35] | taylorr: | skd5aner: well it's a problem on both ends.... the STB/HD-PVR is creating bad video but the decoder isn't handling as gracefully now |
[00:00:44] | skd5aner: | yea |
[00:01:19] | skd5aner: | blame my cable provider for setting everything to copy once so that a cablecard is worthless to me and forcing me to use an HD-PVR instead :P |
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[00:01:21] | taylorr: | but definitely try playback from beginning and playback from middle and see if the video buffer numbers are different |
[00:01:37] | taylorr: | skd5aner: my cable company is the same |
[00:02:11] | skd5aner: | had comcast for a short while... boy was it fun to have a fully functional prime... live tv was awesome |
[00:04:27] | skd5aner: | taylorr, Beirdo: one interesting thing I noted is that mythlogserver was taking a significant chunk of CPU when I was grabbing that last set of logs |
[00:08:24] | skd5aner: | great, now mfe doesn't want to load the menu :P |
[00:10:04] | taylorr: | skd5aner: at least we know what the problem is.... how to solve it is not so easy |
[00:10:11] | skd5aner: | :) |
[00:11:16] | taylorr: | if you are curious, the reason the software decoder works better is purely because it has more video buffers initialized so if some are lost it still functions fine |
[00:11:53] | taylorr: | for VDPAU a smaller amount is allocated to preserve video memory but still allow enough for proper playback |
[00:12:18] | taylorr: | unfortunately, the lower number of video buffers the less tolerant to flaky video |
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[00:14:24] | Beirdo: | skd5aner: if you are logging a lot of detail, it will take a lot of CPU to log it (proportionate to number of log entries, in theory) |
[00:16:04] | taylorr: | skd5aner: when you get it back up use the filter "vdpaubuffercount=x" when x is the number of video buffers to use (12 is the default) so try 20,25 or 30... if you set it too high then you'll run out of resources and it won't play |
[00:16:52] | taylorr: | then playback the bad video from the beginning and you should notice the decoded/free are much higher and smooth playback |
[00:17:38] | skd5aner: | k, I think the profile script may be hanging mythfrontend on startup – asking about it in -users now |
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[00:27:57] | jpabq: | skd5aner, With the HD-PVR it is pretty much always necessary to have a sleep of some sort between the channel change "script" and the signal monitor to give the HD-PVR a chance to see the "new" channel, instead of the "old" channel. With Directv, I can get by with 1 second, but I must have that 1 second for 100% trouble free operation. |
[00:28:23] | skd5aner: | with my old STB, I had to do at least like 6 seconds |
[00:28:41] | Beirdo: | Hmm, maybe I just increase mine a wee bit, it could be the directv box firmware upgrade needs a longer delay |
[00:28:50] | skd5aner: | jpabq: but, I switched to the internal firewire channel changing, and there is no script |
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[00:28:55] | jpabq: | I currently have mine set to 2 seconds just to be safe. |
[00:29:18] | skd5aner: | jpabq: any idea on how to make that wait? |
[00:29:18] | jpabq: | With 0.25 I re-wrote the signal monitor, such that a shorter sleep is enough. |
[00:29:45] | jpabq: | skd5aner, I emailed you a patch to test the theory. |
[00:30:24] | skd5aner: | k – thanks, I don't check that email unless I know I need to, so thanks for the headsu p |
[00:31:01] | skd5aner: | you sent it to my nick @ gmail? |
[00:31:24] | jpabq: | If that patch works for you, then I could probably add something to myth such that it automatically sleeps for 1 (or 2?) seconds. |
[00:31:25] | jpabq: | yes |
[00:31:54] | skd5aner: | got it |
[00:32:18] | jpabq: | I didn't want to force that sleep, since as far as I knew, everyone used a script, and they could set the sleep to whatever they needed in the script. |
[00:32:49] | ** Beirdo shudders... another setting... :) ** | |
[00:33:05] | Beirdo: | you KNOW someone will ask for it |
[00:33:33] | Beirdo: | I guess there's no harm in having a hidden setting with a default, and not in setup anywhere |
[00:34:12] | jpabq: | skd5aner, Another thing to try, which may be a better way, is to change "m_stable_time(2000)" to "m_stable_time(3000)" at the top of analogsignalmonitor.cpp . If you do that, do it instead of the patch I sent. |
[00:34:30] | Beirdo: | nicw |
[00:34:43] | Beirdo: | I hope that won't mess up timings in live TV |
[00:34:54] | skd5aner: | jpabq: k, I'll try that |
[00:35:09] | jpabq: | Beirdo, that is exactly why I tried to go with as small a value as I could |
[00:35:19] | Beirdo: | for sure :) |
[00:35:26] | skd5aner: | jpabq: I actually like hte built in firewire channel changer, makes life simple |
[00:35:29] | skd5aner: | it just "works" |
[00:35:39] | skd5aner: | of course, there's now gui for it, and I have to manually edit the db |
[00:36:34] | skd5aner: | but it is relatively nice – http://code.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/d49f3f2 . . . 70407/mythtv |
[00:36:39] | skd5aner: | s/now/no |
[00:38:01] | jpabq: | If I had a firewire stb, I would probably do that too. |
[00:40:15] | jpabq: | taylorr, your analysis seems likely to me. That would explain why seeking backwards or forwards does not "fix" the problem after VDPAU encounters a glitch. Only way to fix it, is to stop playback, and restart. |
[00:41:01] | skd5aner: | I'm glad there's some awful smart guys in the room |
[00:43:14] | jpabq: | skd5aner, did you see the thread "HD-PVR polling errors — possible solution" ? Only people running LinHES or Arch Linux seem to have that problem, but your kernel is old enough that you may want to check. |
[00:45:26] | skd5aner: | nope, I'll take a look on gossamer in a bit |
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[01:05:51] | skd5aner: | jpabq: saw that thread, and I've likely ran in to that issue in the past – it's unrelated, but definitely something that I've seen before |
[01:06:26] | skd5aner: | looksl ike the fix went in 3.2.11+, so I'll upgrade to ubuntu 12.10 at the end of the month and get the 3.5 kernel |
[01:06:28] | skd5aner: | thanks |
[01:08:19] | skd5aner: | alright, got to run – thanks guys |
[01:10:17] | skd5aner: | I can definitely tell a picture quality difference between "Normal" and VDPAU |
[01:38:03] | jpabq: | taylorr, Beirdo with VDPAU watching a "clean" HD-PVR 1080i show I have "Frames decoded / free : 11 / 1" , that show hit some "damage" at that changed to "Frames decoded /free: 2 / 1". I had to stop/restart playback to fix the playback. |
[01:38:15] | jpabq: | s/at/and/ |
[01:40:03] | taylorr: | jpabq: could you try something? use the ffmpeg software decoder and after the damage check to see the decoded/free reduced and the seek to see if there are then increased |
[01:40:25] | jpabq: | will do |
[01:40:28] | taylorr: | wow, my typing is aweful tonight |
[01:45:18] | jpabq: | taylorr, before the damage "28/1" at the damage "12/1" a second later it stabilized at "14/1" |
[01:46:03] | jpabq: | After seeking "13/1" |
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[02:17:03] | taylorr: | jpabq: I thought that a seek would release all the frames in limbo... maybe we have a bug somewhere |
[02:20:13] | taylorr: | or, ffmpeg is still in a bad state and doesn't get reset |
[04:44:23] | Beirdo: | tgm4883: you in? |
[04:47:40] | Beirdo: | OK, dekarl should be all setup |
[04:47:51] | Beirdo: | unless I missed something, but I don't think I did |
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[05:10:04] | dekarl: | Beidro, thank you. |
[05:10:13] | dekarl: | Ahh, Beirdo.. too early for me |
[05:16:00] | Beirdo: | No problem. |
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[06:08:02] | Beirdo: | OK, bed for me. |
[06:08:19] | Beirdo: | I hope I can kick this stupid cold that's incoming. |
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[12:13:28] | stuartm: | jpabq, taylorr: just a tangential observation, I've long noticed that it's possible under a variety of scenarios for playback to get 'stuck' in a bad state from which it doesn't automatically recover, it's easy to understand why we don't handle this well because getting into these states is not common and sometimes hard to reproduce – it would be great if we could get some of these issues fixed, whether it's using example samples like this or |
[12:13:29] | stuartm: | fuzzing, or just hardwiring the code to use the untested error handling we have now |
[12:16:08] | stuartm: | fuzzing should reveal some problems, I've triggered some of these irrecoverable situations just by hitting a combination of Skips/Jumps, Rew/FFwd etc after which playback stutters or freezes and cannot be recovered without restarting |
[12:16:58] | stuartm: | anyway, just thought I'd mention it in case someone was interested enough to ta |
[12:17:10] | stuartm: | ke on that challenge |
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[13:14:43] | danielk22: | stuartm: I feel we need to get some sort of automated testing going. Obviously testing the actual decoded video isn't really doable, but we should be able to test for things like this with a little bit of instrumentation. |
[13:15:54] | danielk22: | Qt does have a testing framework. I'm not sure how much it offers but I'm pretty sure it could test at least some stuff. |
[13:16:59] | danielk22: | We could also start running the ffmpeg tests and add some test cases for our extensions to ffmpeg. |
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[14:34:44] | stuartm: | yeah, even something as simple as monitoring logs for warnings/errors and changes in the number of both could get us started |
[14:36:17] | stuartm: | I mean something more sophisticated ultimately, but we could manage to setup the former in a matter of hours and then build on that as we have the time |
[14:36:57] | wagnerrp: | we could add such a thing to smolt |
[14:37:16] | wagnerrp: | check the percentage of logs that are above a certain level |
[14:37:32] | wagnerrp: | easy enough to do since all the logs are duplicated in the database for two weeks |
[14:38:05] | wagnerrp: | that would take all of ten minutes |
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[14:57:05] | taylorr: | stuartm, danielk: the aspect of handling the video buffers that concerns me the most is if we can somehow work better with ffmpeg to recover from decoding errors... basically we handle the video buffer management but ffmpeg has callbacks into our buffer handling for requesting and returning buffers |
[14:58:10] | taylorr: | if ffmpeg has issues returning buffers then how do we correct the situation... I'm not sure we can demand ffmpeg to return the buffers to us that it stole :) |
[15:01:54] | taylorr: | too bad we can't easily bisect the ffmpeg changes from 0.25 to 0.26 that made this situation worse |
[15:02:19] | wagnerrp: | stuartm: done, and pushed to 0.25+ |
[15:03:03] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: nice |
[15:03:24] | stuartm: | taylorr: yeah, if ffmpeg has control over our buffers that makes things harder |
[15:03:33] | wagnerrp: | now it's up to ja ms to add it to the page |
[15:04:14] | wagnerrp: | although note that smolt has no support for historical data |
[15:04:29] | wagnerrp: | we're only going to see the current status, not trending patterns |
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[15:07:12] | taylorr: | stuartm: another problem is that I'm not so sure how willing ffmpeg devs are to handle these situations where the video itself is broken |
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[15:11:28] | wagnerrp: | broken as in poorly encoded? or corrupt data from a lossy recording? |
[15:13:34] | taylorr: | broken as in bad data for whatever reason (transmission errors, encoder bugs, etc) |
[15:14:10] | stuartm: | I think that Janne of all people would understand our needs and the fact that ffmpeg can't live in a bubble, they need to handle real world situations |
[15:15:21] | taylorr: | I guess someone could submit a sample that loses buffers and hope they respond |
[15:16:01] | taylorr: | the sample would have to show an issue with ffplay most likely to get a look |
[15:16:36] | taylorr: | I imagine their player might handle buffer issues just fine since if it ran low it would just add more |
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[15:17:02] | taylorr: | we don't have that luxury, especially with VDPAU and the fact that it's technically a memory leak |
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[15:18:20] | stuartm: | if they still wanted to stick their heads in the sand I'd play the libav devs against the ffmpeg devs, challenge one to rise above the pettiness, stop writing decoders for ideal conditions which are no better than a proof of concept and deal with reality (or however it needs to be worded to get the right reaction) |
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[15:23:51] | danielk22: | taylorr: We need the issue fixed at the ffmpeg level. Giving them a sample is the minimum requirement & I believe is faster than giving them the fix in code form to reject. |
[15:25:35] | danielk22: | taylorr: I've also noticed that ffmpeg isn't necessarily done with a buffer it returns to us. It sometimes continues using it until the time it asks us for the next buffer. We need to account for that bad behavior in our buffer management code. |
[15:28:37] | taylorr: | danielk22: that leads to the question of how do we know it's still using it if it returns it :) |
[15:29:34] | taylorr: | it will hold on to buffers it needs for reference but it should return as soon as it's no longer needed |
[15:29:40] | danielk22: | taylorr: the assumption in the ffmpeg code seems to be that it is the only user of the buffers, so it will stop using the buffer it returned before or at the time it calls getbuffer again so it doesn't step on it's own toes. |
[15:33:33] | taylorr: | I'm hoping someone will find the time and energy to dedicate to this part of the code... I find it interesting but I don't have the time to spend on it anymore |
[15:34:16] | danielk22: | taylorr: The buffer code is very complicated and hard to follow in ffmpeg. I've never gotten caption support integrated upstream because I couldn't get the memory management right. |
[15:35:07] | taylorr: | danielk22: we don't have any local changes to their buffer management do we? |
[15:35:13] | danielk22: | nope |
[15:35:46] | danielk22: | For captions we just use a fixed sized array so no memory management problems, but that isn't acceptable upstream. |
[15:37:55] | taylorr: | Beirdo: do you have the dates of the ffmpeg sync for 0.25 and 0.26? |
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[17:48:39] | kenni: | stuartm: Sorry for the late reply...regarding http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10995 – The reason why I removed the milestone, was because that I was the person who originally set the milestone in comment #3. Historically, assigning a ticket to another person *and* dictating a milestone, has not been taken lightly :) |
[17:48:39] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3 ** | |
[18:02:50] | stuartm: | kenni: ok thanks, I'd missed that you were the one originally setting the milestone |
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