MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

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Wednesday, May 30th, 2012, 00:06 UTC
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[02:06:27] jya: wagnerrp: I certainly don't think javascript is a god awful language.. quite the opposite… It's excellent for what it's designed for, and more…. If you had to choose to have a unique language on any platforms.. javascript would be a good candidate
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[02:10:20] jya: makes a lot of sense what Qt has chosen… Been working on a similar project for a few years… a framework that not only target platform independence, but also doesn't require an engineering degree to comprehend.
[02:11:33] wagnerrp: it makes sense for small things, it does not make sense for large projects
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[02:12:13] jya: google has clearly shown that this is a myth… look at what they've done in javascript since they started...
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[02:12:34] wagnerrp: i.e. you dont run your website on javascript, you use javascript to make in-flight changes
[02:12:57] jya: for now… there's no technical reason you couldn't
[02:13:11] jya: that it doesn't exist doesn't mean you can't
[02:13:32] jya: look at the whole Google Docs… can't think of a bigger project, 100% in javascript
[02:13:45] stichnot: I still object to the extreme difficulty in creating an optimizing compiler.
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[02:14:01] wagnerrp: it also appears to be largely machine generated
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[02:14:23] wagnerrp: all the google javascript code is big one-liners
[02:14:37] stichnot: maybe they obfuscated it :)
[02:14:39] wagnerrp: no whitespace, no endlines, no formatting characters of any sort
[02:14:43] jya: stichnot: sure, it may not be the most practical thing for embedded, low powered platforms… but you can't keep developing application like we did 30 years ago, simply because it won't scale well to low powered device
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[02:15:22] jya: wagnerrp: removing the whitespaces is one way to make your exe shorter… obviously that's not what they are working with.
[02:15:26] stichnot: but you can make an attempt to design a language with optimization potential in mind, before you unleash it with bad choices built in
[02:16:03] jya: stichnot: sure, but there's a time where you can make a decision that make sense for technoligies that will be used xx years from now...
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[02:16:41] jya: in 5 years time, it won't matter much if something is well optimised or not… just like today you don't really care of allocating more han 64kB of RAM
[02:17:09] jya: I remember the days where you couldn't do a char buffer[65536] without first changing the limit of the process
[02:17:44] jya: would you care about such restrictions today? no… it's the same thing…
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[02:18:21] jya: so sure, programs could run twice as fast if properly optimised, but at the end of the day, the more it goes , the less it matters because something even half as fast is still fast enough
[02:18:23] wagnerrp: jya: anyway, my point wasnt about the merits of the syntax or capabilities or interpreters
[02:18:48] wagnerrp: but rather that ive had nothing but problems if i ever try to implement anything complex in javascript, due to the scope
[02:18:59] jya: wagnerrp: sure, but as a language itself, it certainly doesn't fall into the category of "god awful" :)
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[02:19:26] jya: wagnerrp: sorry ,but this doesn't point the problem to be in javascript :)
[02:19:46] wagnerrp: is the scope funkiness more a function of it being tied to a web browser? everything is supposed to be stored in the page through DOM, rather than in variables?
[02:20:36] jya: that's just how a web browser works… there's no inherent requirements to make everything be allocated that way
[02:20:50] stichnot: OK. While conducting this debate, one of the kids just pooped in the bathtub. Surely there's a message there.
[02:21:10] jya: hehe
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[02:21:25] wagnerrp: yes, it says "EVERYONE OUT OF THE HOTTUB!"
[02:21:40] jya: ok.. back to my php code :)
[02:21:50] wagnerrp: stichnot: dont worry, its really just a baby ruth
[02:22:11] ** jya like php **
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[12:50:51] stichnot: Just noticed that when I run mythtv-setup (Master), it gives me the Terra theme, even when I run with -O Theme=blue-abstract-wide . Mythfrontend comes up with the right theme. All the settings are intact. No unusual errors in the log. Any ideas what's going on?
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[13:28:30] stichnot: danielk22: this seems to be the result of https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/ . . . ain.cpp#L351 , which was added as part of the mysql.txt removal. Any idea why?
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[13:31:55] wagnerrp: danielk22: the guy on #10774 started complaining on mythtvtalk about how mythtv developers suck and he should just stick with <insert multiple other recording applications> instead
[13:31:55] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10774 **
[13:32:40] wagnerrp: i tried explaining to him that only a small fraction of a percent of users would ever want to do what hes doing, and they're nearly all commercial users with a lot more hardware than he has
[13:33:15] wagnerrp: to which he responded he was just like all the other users who want to record _all_ of the olympics, surely there must be lots of those...
[13:33:51] wagnerrp: and yet, he was the high end commercial user with duplicate everything for redundancy
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[13:34:21] wagnerrp: not sure how you can manage to be the high-availability commercial user, just like all the other mythtv users...
[13:42:57] stichnot: wagnerrp: hope this isn't a dumb user question, but (perhaps also a result of the mysql.txt removal?) I find that lately I'm getting a perl bindings error running "/usr/share/doc/mythtv-backend/contrib/info/misc_status_info/myth_recent_re cordings.pl --recordings=-1 --hours=48 --live" >>> DBI connect('database=mythconverg:host=localhost;port=3306','mythtv',...) failed: Access denied for user...
[13:42:58] stichnot: ...'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /usr/mythtrunk/share/perl/5.10.1/MythTV.pm line 351 >>> Cannot connect to database:
[13:44:35] wagnerrp: your database is not on your master backend?
[13:45:27] wagnerrp: usually status scripts get run on the master backend, by the master backend, and injected into the backend status page
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[13:47:00] stichnot: yeah, this is all on the master backend
[13:47:20] wagnerrp: anyway, i believe the perl bindings try to read the config.xml (they havent use mysql.txt in several releases), fall back to UPnP lookup if the necessary libraries are available, and then fault
[13:47:26] stichnot: I noticed that those status results haven't been getting inserted lately
[13:47:28] wagnerrp: i dont believe they have a default configuration they use
[13:47:50] wagnerrp: i could be wrong
[13:47:58] stichnot: They would try to read ~/.mythtv/config.xml like everything else, right?
[13:48:06] wagnerrp: should, yes
[13:48:23] wagnerrp: i know sphery was going to get the perl bindings updated for that change
[13:48:32] wagnerrp: but i see no commits in the logs to that effect
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[13:50:22] wagnerrp: seems he did the backup/restore scripts, but hasnt done the bindings yet
[13:50:43] wagnerrp: http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/commit/myt . . . 6d29d35a5116
[13:51:04] wagnerrp: those scripts are intentionally independent from the bindings, and supposed to work with any version of the schema
[13:52:46] stichnot: does that mean the breakage is normal/expected for now? not necessarily dumb user?
[13:53:01] wagnerrp: looks like anything perl is broken in master at the moment
[13:53:20] wagnerrp: still... odd that it would get a "cannot connect to database"
[13:53:28] wagnerrp: rather than something about bad user/password
[13:53:48] wagnerrp: since the server should be there to connect to, if its all on one machine
[13:54:16] wagnerrp: unless that's just the generic access failure
[13:54:23] sphery: I have the patch for the perl bindings, but just need some time to clean it up and push it
[13:55:06] sphery: (the patch = first patch/hack, which I've decided to keep, even though I'm going to change it to do proper XML parsing, so that users without the XML parsing module can still use them)
[13:55:11] stichnot: OK thanks. I got nervous after 2 things seemed to break at the same time...
[13:55:36] wagnerrp: that and the theme thing?
[13:55:47] stichnot: yeah
[13:56:14] wagnerrp: i almost want to say you have to be running different users, and the other user doesnt have that theme installed
[13:56:50] stichnot: except for "-O Theme=blue-abstract-wide" not having any effect
[13:57:00] stichnot: not to mention line 351 of main.cpp :)
[13:57:44] ** wagnerrp looks **
[13:58:30] sphery: stichnot: if you run with a proper db setting for theme, does it use it?
[13:58:51] sphery: that line does look suspicious...
[13:59:55] stichnot: sphery: my Theme setting is already blue-abstract-wide. Adding -O Theme= should have resolved any questions about different users etc.
[14:00:31] stichnot: Doesn't this happen for anyone else? Or are you all using Terra?
[14:00:51] sphery: I haven't run mythtv-setup for a while, so I'm asking if this always happens or only with -O Theme
[14:02:38] stichnot: At present, I can't get mythtv-setup to use any theme besides Terra (unless I comment out main.cpp:351)
[14:04:05] stichnot: I don't run mythtv-setup very often either, apparently. I was only running it to find the name/location of the myth_recent_recordings.pl status script to figure out why it wasn't working any more.
[14:04:07] sphery: yeah, that's exactly what it looks like will happen... I'm thinking that was a leftover debug/test statement that was meant to be removed, but I'm sure danielk22 will confirm.
[14:04:45] sphery: (hehe, and I'll get the bindings patch in there, today--sorry for causing you to waste your time on that, but at least you found another bug :)
[14:09:37] stichnot: no worries, that's what I get for running master :)
[14:10:30] jpabq: stuartm, as far as I am concerned, you may cut 0.25.1 whenever you are ready.
[14:11:02] stuartm: jpabq: cool, I'll do it tonight
[14:11:25] jpabq: Sounds good to me.
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[14:12:28] sphery: hehe, which means I'll start working on mythtv just before that (to get one last fix in)
[14:13:45] sphery: not super important--a MythWeb bug that was present through all of 0.24 (since the programinfo restructure), and only one user ever noticed it (and took a few months to find it), but would be nice to fix it
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[14:16:12] stuartm: ok, even more reason to move external libs/files to an external subfolder, Coverity have now set it up to ignore those
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[14:25:21] stichnot: sphery: re your mythtv-users post. I get a fair number of mythcommflag segfaults these days. I suspect ffmpeg plus an OTA recording with transmission errors. I haven't yet been able to get a decent stack trace.
[14:28:26] sphery: yeah, for segfaults, that would be my guess, too. but the OP said he gets "decoding error eno: Input/output error (5)" and another user said he got "Failed with exit status 140", which wouldn't be segfaults
[14:28:50] sphery: so I was assuming this would be the "hit the end of the in-progress recording file" issue
[14:29:31] sphery: 140 is either signal 12(whatever that would be) or: #define GENERIC_EXIT_KILLED 140 ///< Process killed or stopped
[14:32:56] stichnot: I get 140, which I traced to segfault (and I get a core file to go along)
[14:33:01] stuartm: hmm, coverity has gone crazy, immediately after loading it immediately starts to reload the page, caught in a never ending loop that seemingly can't be fixed by clearing cookies/cache
[14:33:26] stuartm: and disabling redirects just breaks it
[14:33:36] stichnot: I always get one i/o error at the end, whether it's real-time or not. e.g. mythccextractor also shows that message.
[14:33:49] stichnot: So that one is most likely a red herring
[14:40:06] sphery: stichnot: ah, ok, so the exit status of the commflag is actually 139, but it's reported as a generic exit killed in backend status... may just be bad recordings, but since users were saying it's common since upgrade to 0.25, I thought it may be something on our end
[14:43:57] stichnot: fwiw, I started seeing it a lot a little bit before the 0.25 release. Could have been from the previous ffmpeg sync, not sure if the timing works out.
[14:54:17] gigem: stichnot: I've had the mythtv-setup/Terra issue for quite a while too. There's always been more important things to do first, so I hadn't looked into it.
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[15:29:40] danielk22: stichnot: gigem: I have no idea why the theme override is there for setup. I'll remove shortly.
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[17:43:43] stichnot: danielk22: thanks for the setup fix. That and the status script DB problem came right on the heels of IT pushing a patch to my laptop that appears to block X network protocol, so it made me suspect my whole setup was crumbling...
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[17:52:17] danielk22: Blocking X? That sounds about as smart as when I was asked to hire people and my access to monster and linkedin was blocked.
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[18:08:53] stichnot: Whatever they did, at least tunneling X over ssh still works. Probably that's the way they want it done in any case.
[18:12:56] sphery: yeah, it makes so much sense from a security standpoint to force your network users to tunnel everything over SSH--so none of the traffic can be inspected/understood/managed--rather than using protocols that allow visibility ;) (though I agree that a lot of companies seem to think that's better, I disagree with their assessments)
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[18:15:47] stichnot: I don't think I can complain much, given that malware like Flame probably has X exploits as well
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[18:33:49] natanojl: Beirdo: [9ce70aed] seems to have broken commercial flagging on my SBE. As it is now the MBE is queried about a file on the SBE and obviously doesn't find it. Perhaps QUERY_FILE_EXISTS should behave like QUERY_FILE_HASH now does after [fb34130d] ?
[18:36:46] Beirdo: Ugh, you're making me think? ;)
[18:37:56] Beirdo: off-hand I'm not sure, but that does sound like it could be what's needed
[18:54:42] natanojl: Yeah, haven't you had any coffee yet ;)
[19:08:05] stuartm: Beirdo: moc referencecounter.h – referencecounter.h:0: Warning: No relevant classes found. No output generated.
[19:08:15] stuartm: sorry, that should be danielk22 ^^
[19:09:32] danielk22: stuartm: do a distclean, there shouldn't be a moc_referencecounter.h
[19:10:33] stuartm: danielk22: k
[19:10:37] Beirdo: I need yet more coffee
[20:00:12] stuartm: Beirdo: appreciate you're busy but just so you're aware, Coverity is listing 5 possible 'divide by zero' defects in mythcommflag – the three I've looked at seem very unlikely, extreme corner cases, but they should probably be reviewed by someone more familiar with that area
[20:00:25] Beirdo: oooh
[20:00:44] Beirdo: OK, I'll take a look. My hectic-busy is slowing finally
[20:01:34] stuartm: by unlikely I mean yes, if say when doing blank frame checking it decides that all sampled pixels are inside the logo then yes it will crash, but how unlikely is that?
[20:02:04] Beirdo: I would expect it to be exceedingly rare
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[20:08:32] stuartm: trawling through these reports is slow and I can't help thinking that I could be doing something better with my time, such as the beginnings of multi-user support or that notification stuff I promised jya I'd work on three or four weeks ago
[20:11:05] sphery: stuartm: or perhaps at least the DB changes/skeleton of the tables for multi-user support (which would allow working through it over time and additional people contributing patches)
[20:11:32] sphery: that said, handling the coverity stuff is definitely important, and we're very appreciative of your taking the time to go through them
[20:16:41] stuartm: hmm, somewhere I've got my draft multi-user schema
[20:17:26] stuartm: key word being 'somewhere', I can't remember where I might have kept it
[20:17:50] Beirdo: probably right next to my Torx screwdriver set
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[20:29:47] stuartm: well I know where my Torx screwdriver set is ... and the set of Torx bits for my drill/driver, but I'm pretty sure I don't know where your set is :)
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[20:42:38] stuartm: I know those things because I keep my physical tools pretty well organised, the same cannot be said for my digital files and the odd scraps of paper that I keep my ideas on
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[20:50:52] stichnot: danielk22: I was wondering if you've observed any undesired seek behavior during playback since I committed the change regarding exact vs inexact seeking?
[20:56:10] dekarl: stichnot: wrt perl bindings, the first change explains why the db connect doesnt work. http://paste.ubuntu.com/1010791/
[20:59:00] stichnot: dekarl: ah, that makes sense.
[21:02:26] dekarl: hmm, but how can I get the channel_id from the channel_num in the active EIT scanner? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1001869/ (that was the paste I was looking for, just stumbled over the perl bindings ;)
[21:05:27] stuartm: dekarl: ChannelUtil::GetChanID()
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[21:06:40] stuartm: http://code.mythtv.org/doxygen/classChannelUt . . . 0ed2c22b7ece
[21:19:11] stuartm: are screen writers really so technically illiterate that they really believe you can kill a computer by shooting at the screen? I'm so tired of that fallacy appearing in TV series and films, it's as though these people have managed to remain technically illiterate despite being surrounded by machines
[21:20:01] stuartm: hmm, I need to start editing my rants to avoid the repetition
[21:23:07] sphery: stuartm: that's my last "really want it in 0.25.1" commit
[21:23:20] sphery: sorry for taking so long to get to it
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[21:27:29] stuartm: sphery: np, given me the chance to fix a couple more things
[21:28:09] stuartm: won't cut the release until the morning now, best done when I'm not struggling to keep my eyes open
[21:30:14] dekarl: stuartm: thanks, compiling now, we'll see tomorrow
[21:45:07] kormoc: stuartm, for a screen writer, if the monitor doesn't work, the machine might as well be dead, no?
[21:51:09] stichnot: stuartm: my myth computer is right behind the TV, so...
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[22:24:03] danielk22: stichnot: No, but I'm running the utc branch here in production so I wouldn't have seen anything yet. (just doing the merge from master now).
[22:51:37] stuartm: dekarl: fwiw, if you're intending to submit that patch mythtv coding standards require braces to go on their own line
[22:55:26] stichnot: danielk22: ok. I'll wait to hear about any annoyances :)
[22:57:07] sphery: dekarl: and, fwiw, 80-char lines are A Good Thing :)
[22:57:59] stichnot: sphery: thanks, the perl bindings work again.
[22:59:00] sphery: stichnot: hehe, yeah, sorry it took so long--that patch has been sitting on my system for a few weeks, now, but hadn't made time to verify all the changes/differences in the config.xml formats and push it
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[23:07:13] stichnot: (don't think this message went through, so repeating...) And I didn't even notice the breakage until last night :)
[23:09:21] sphery: hehe, well thanks for the extra motivation on it :)
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