| Tuesday, February 28th, 2012, 00:07 UTC | ||
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| [00:32:28] | wagnerrp: | Captain_Murdoch: did you want to remove all these deprecated options from mythbackend? |
| [00:32:44] | wagnerrp: | or keep them in for a version to give people a chance to migrate over to mythutil? |
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| [01:02:48] | sphery: | I say remove them--otherwise, it just delays people fixing their scripts (since as long as the script works, they won't fix it :) |
| [01:10:07] | Beirdo: | yup, apply ripping action :) |
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| [01:49:22] | sphery: | superm1 / tgm4883 : Just wanted to give you a (last-second?) heads up that MythTV/myththemes repository is now empty ( http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-commit . . . /087591.html ). If you guys are still making a myththemes package, I would recommend no longer doing so (and, perhaps, having the package system remove any installed old myththemes packages) so that users will use the Theme Chooser, instead with 0.25+. |
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| [01:50:35] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah, I'm fine with removing them now, agreeing with sphery's logic. I meant to get to it, but my MythTVtime went away then I forgot about it. we can also remove mythmessage as well. |
| [01:50:44] | superm1: | sphery: hmm so where is the mythbuntu theme at now? would like to still be able to ship that by default |
| [01:50:56] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, ^^ |
| [01:50:59] | sphery: | xris: it seems there's a mythtv-themes.spec in packaging, too, so you may want to update (or let me know how to update) the RPM stuff |
| [01:51:20] | Captain_Murdoch: | superm1, MythTV-Themes/Mythbuntu on github |
| [01:51:44] | sphery: | superm1: explained in commit message, but it's moved to https://github.com/MythTV-Themes , and we've given gbutters admin control over the repo. He can add you or anyone else he trusts as a committer with push/pull privileges |
| [01:51:49] | superm1: | okay i think that i'll set ours up to include just that but make everything else go theme chooser |
| [01:52:14] | sphery: | that sounds like a good plan |
| [01:53:12] | sphery: | superm1: and would be good to get some highly motivated people recruited to become team members to help update the theme if gbutters wants the help... |
| [01:53:48] | superm1: | yeah we struggle getting people to help just with testing and development even but that would be nice :) |
| [01:55:44] | sphery: | hehe, well, I'll be working on doing some generic recruiting to try to get more people involved with keeping the themes they use up to date (and finishing the parts the authors don't use), and since many people who don't use Ubuntu user Mythbuntu themes, too, might be able to send a few your way. It will still be up to the theme author whether to accept offers for help/whether to grant permissions, but I'm hoping to get the ball rolling on ... |
| [01:55:50] | sphery: | ... "theme teams." |
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| [01:57:59] | superm1: | that would be great |
| [01:58:13] | superm1: | just to make sure the packaging scripts are done right – the intention is to follow the same branch naming conventions as the rest of the git trees right? |
| [01:58:28] | superm1: | eg there will be a fixes/0.25 when 0.25 gets released |
| [01:59:37] | sphery: | for mythtv repo and mythweb repo, yes... the myththemes repo will just disappear |
| [01:59:51] | superm1: | but i mean this new MythTV-Themes/ repo |
| [02:01:08] | sphery: | That's one project with multiple repos (each theme has its own repo). Versioning within the repo is left up to the repo admin/owner (at this point, those are theme authors) |
| [02:01:24] | superm1: | oh i see |
| [02:01:48] | superm1: | so gbutters or whomever he gives access to will just need to remember to make the new branch at release then |
| [02:02:20] | sphery: | I'm guessing gbutters will also do a fixes/0.25 branch (we pulled in all history for Mythbuntu theme from the old repo, so he already has fixes/0.22 through 0.24 branches, so it seems likely he'd continue) |
| [02:02:55] | superm1: | ah ok |
| [02:03:06] | sphery: | but, yeah, they'd just need to branch for -fixes when they're ready |
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| [02:24:13] | ponyofdeath: | hi, anyone know what i need to comiple ffmpeg with to support nuv mythtv files? |
| [02:32:24] | wagnerrp: | see topic, you want #mythtv-users |
| [02:33:31] | wagnerrp: | ponyofdeath: ^^^ |
| [02:36:22] | ponyofdeath: | wagnerrp: thanks |
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| [04:25:57] | Rasperin: | I want to fix a few bugs I found in the mythtv core |
| [04:26:31] | Rasperin: | but it's been years since I've messed with qtcreator but would like import the project into it :| |
| [04:26:37] | Rasperin: | do any of you know how to do that |
| [04:26:39] | Rasperin: | I know it's stupid |
| [04:27:55] | Rasperin: | I will take all noob insults :D |
| [04:34:39] | Rasperin: | hooray |
| [04:34:43] | Rasperin: | I'm the biggest moron ever |
| [04:34:54] | Rasperin: | I'm off to go make some changes :D |
| [04:34:55] | Rasperin: | o/ |
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| [04:43:48] | sphery: | danielk22: I tested the DB schema upgrade with my 0.21-fixes backup. It works fine on MySQL 5.1 and 5.0, but fails on 5.5 due to the "ALTER DATABASE mythconverg DEFAULT CHARACTER SET latin1" (and the 1217 upgrade fails with the corresponding utf8 one). Neither of those is necessary--as default character set only specifies default character for new tables and neither update is creating tables (or for LOAD DATA INFILE, which we never use). ... |
| [04:43:54] | sphery: | ... Removing them allows upgrade to proceed. |
| [04:44:32] | sphery: | I'm still for limiting the upgrades--IMHO, no need to support upgrades from 0.13 to 0.25. Thoughts? Should I e-mail the -developers and ask for other opinions? |
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| [06:01:04] | jya: | who's looking after hdhomerun ? |
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| [08:34:12] | wagnerrp: | jya: often the silicon dust people do |
| [08:34:22] | wagnerrp: | a couple of their engineers actually use mythtv |
| [08:34:43] | jya: | ok.. there's a header issue preventing it from compiling on the mac |
| [08:35:04] | jya: | resulting in a type not being defined |
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| [09:09:10] | Beirdo: | heh. hahahahah |
| [09:09:20] | Beirdo: | you see the email on -dev? |
| [09:10:08] | Beirdo: | Open Source software truly is a game one can not win at. |
| [09:10:28] | Beirdo: | for every change, there is a detractor somewhere |
| [09:14:02] | ** stuarta yawns ** | |
| [09:21:09] | Beirdo: | yeah, that too |
| [09:22:30] | stuarta: | no that's because it early |
| [09:22:40] | stuarta: | and i was up late fixing in-laws pc |
| [09:23:21] | Beirdo: | ahh |
| [09:23:49] | wagnerrp: | early? its like 9:30 |
| [09:24:08] | stuarta: | :-p |
| [09:25:15] | Beirdo: | that's early |
| [09:25:41] | stuarta: | at least my personal alarm clock slept in until 7am |
| [09:25:48] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [09:25:49] | stuarta: | (2yr old) |
| [09:26:06] | wagnerrp: | logs say he had a couple posts in late 09 regarding subtitles |
| [09:26:32] | wagnerrp: | and a couple more from his intent to restart mythphone |
| [09:26:56] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [09:33:36] | Beirdo: | time for me to go to bed and crash out |
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| [09:55:05] | jya: | Beirdo: he has a point though… Why remove a settings now , which will only be solved with new features for 0.26, while we are in feature freeze |
| [09:55:30] | stuarta: | very good question. |
| [09:56:10] | jya: | stuarta: I have the new mac packager using external qt up and running |
| [09:56:16] | stuarta: | \o/ |
| [09:56:21] | stuarta: | which qt blob? |
| [09:56:34] | jya: | however, when I compile on Lion with the 4.8 package |
| [09:56:41] | jya: | it doesn't run on 10.6 |
| [09:57:13] | jya: | here is the reason why my mysql plugin wasn't loaded: https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-24541 |
| [09:57:56] | jya: | I've found a work around, that doesn't require building qt luckily |
| [10:01:51] | stuarta: | nice work |
| [10:57:04] | stuartm: | I actually agree with one aspect of the subtitle email, FreeMono sucks, really sucks |
| [10:57:42] | stuartm: | hardcoding the font I have no problems with, but persisting with FreeMono is disappointing |
| [11:00:18] | stuartm: | it's a shame there is no mono version of Tiresias |
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| [12:48:05] | jya: | stuarta: you're there? |
| [12:53:31] | stuarta: | yes |
| [12:58:14] | jya: | ah sorry, didn't see your answer |
| [12:58:36] | jya: | have you ever used the Qt 4.6.4 dmg ? |
| [12:59:01] | stuarta: | no i don't think so, since we've always build Qt from source |
| [12:59:05] | jya: | the qmake in it doesn't generate any makefile whatsoever.. I was wondering if it was only on my system |
| [12:59:20] | stuarta: | biab, i've a meeting for 10m or so |
| [12:59:49] | jya: | going to try on 10.5 then |
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| [13:22:42] | stuarta: | with the 4.8 dmg i have to force the makefile generation type, as it was defaulting to xcodeproj files (which were empty) |
| [13:30:41] | stichnot: | just saw the -dev list post... I'm actually surprised it took this long |
| [13:41:25] | ** stuarta really has to catch up on the outstanding 322 emails ** | |
| [13:44:45] | stichnot: | I have mixed feelings about removing that subtitle font setting (which I think everyone here, including me, agreed to). I'm sure we'll hear the same complaints when control is moved from settings to the theme, but at least it's relatively easy for a user to tweak their theme, compared to patching the source. |
| [13:46:48] | stuartm: | for the record, I was advocating keeping the setting but limiting it to listing the mono fonts installed on the system |
| [13:51:55] | taylorr: | I think it's not a good idea to remove the ability to customize the font and I also think it a TERRIBLE idea to make it themeable |
| [13:52:10] | stichnot: | taylorr: why not themeable? |
| [13:52:17] | taylorr: | just one other thing to make it impossible to find a theme you like |
| [13:53:05] | taylorr: | so I like everything about a theme but I'm forced to like what they like in a subtitle font |
| [13:53:28] | taylorr: | doesn't make sense... what are we really accomplishing here by removing yet another useful setting |
| [13:53:52] | stuartm: | taylorr: fwiw I agree, but I thought I was the only one – it's perhaps because in the UK the subtitle font has never been a matter of choice, we get what we're given but that also means they've worked hard to chose a clear, easily readable font and importantly no matter which TV or STB you use it's identical |
| [13:54:34] | taylorr: | exactly, I'd like this remove all settings, regardless if they are useful or not, to stop |
| [13:55:22] | stuartm: | I don't like the option to customise the font at all, let alone theme it, I'd rather find a GPL compatible font designed for it's readability with poor eyesight at a distance (something pretty much exactly like Tiresias) and stick with it |
| [13:55:48] | stuartm: | taylorr: well we don't agree entirely, just in part ;) |
| [13:56:20] | taylorr: | if it's possible to find a font that everyone agrees upon then great |
| [13:56:45] | stichnot: | taylorr: impossible :) |
| [13:56:52] | taylorr: | but again, I ask the question.... what do we gain by removing the setting? |
| [13:57:18] | stuartm: | taylorr: maybe not for users in the US where it seems people expect a choice (except when it comes to DVDs and Blu-ray, which begs the question, if those fonts are ok then why should CC be any different) |
| [13:57:57] | stichnot: | stuartm: I don't know of TV sets of STBs that give the user a choice |
| [13:58:00] | stuartm: | taylorr: users shooting themselves in the foot mostly, and don't try to argue that it doesn't happen or that it's not our problem if they do, they tend to make it our problem |
| [13:58:43] | stuartm: | stichnot: sphery was saying just the other day that CC708 mandated that the user be allowed to chose the font? Or did I misunderstand? |
| [14:00:11] | stichnot: | I believe cc708 users are supposed to be able to override all fonts with a single font, but I don't think it says anything about the set of fonts the user can choose from |
| [14:01:48] | stichnot: | As I recall, the issue was this. The default font has been FreeSans, which most people think is ugly, and also it's not monospaced which cc608 is supposed to use. If anyone has ever enabled captions or gone through the OSD setup, then FreeSans is probably lurking there in their settings. |
| [14:02:03] | stichnot: | cc608 and teletext |
| [14:02:42] | stichnot: | I think stuartm had a great screenshot of how terrible teletext looked with FreeSans |
| [14:03:53] | stichnot: | What about bringing the setting back with a different name and FreeMono as default? |
| [14:05:25] | sphery: | cc708 clients are encouraged (but not required) to allow the user to specify font faces for the 8 font types |
| [14:07:01] | sphery: | what about just changing it to Droid Sans Mono, since at least stuartm finds it less objectionable :) |
| [14:08:25] | stichnot: | I'm guessing that the user in question doesn't want a monospaced font for srt files |
| [14:09:17] | stichnot: | also, didn't it appear that Droid Sans Mono is missing some characters? |
| [14:10:46] | j-rod|afk is now known as j-rod | |
| [14:10:49] | stichnot: | see the top of https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/ . . . 08window.cpp for the "rules" about cc708 |
| [14:16:36] | stichnot: | taylorr: settable attributes of captions for cc708 include text color, background color, text opacity, background opacity, edge color, edge style, text size, italics, underlining, and font. We don't want to override these via settings. |
| [14:19:06] | sphery: | although it appeared that it's missing some characters, MythTV seemed to use glyphs from other "similar" fonts when they were missing |
| [14:20:40] | stichnot: | that's true, but then I have concerns about whether the size of the character is compatible with the monospaced font otherwise being used |
| [14:22:32] | stichnot: | in the WGBH test file, one of the screens has the "SM" special character, and it draws wider than the other FreeMono characters. I don't know if it's defined that way in FreeMono, or if the character is coming from a "similar" font. |
| [14:26:26] | sphery: | there's no SM (Service Mark, U+2120) in FreeMono, so that must have been from another font |
| [14:31:13] | sphery: | So, what about using a monospace for 608 and teletext and using a sans (non-mono) for 708 default and subtitles. Not sure how much rework that will take, but might be good enough for most? |
| [14:36:05] | stichnot: | I suggest adding a setting DefaultSubtitleFont with FreeMono as its default, and using that where we used to use OSDSubFont. |
| [14:36:57] | stichnot: | That means no lingering FreeSans value |
| [14:39:32] | sphery: | if we do that (use it where we used to use OSDSubFont), we'd have to limit it to monospace fonts, so maybe better to add the DefaultSubtitleFont and use it for non-mono subtitles and 708 default (but not 608 and teletext)? |
| [14:39:59] | sphery: | or were you saying that would be too much rework for a freeze? |
| [14:41:04] | stichnot: | I don't think we *have* to limit to mono fonts. |
| [14:42:13] | stuarta: | "strongly recommend" ??? |
| [14:42:59] | sphery: | if we're using it for 608 and teletext, won't non-mono fonts break spacing? or are you saying to let the users break it if they want? |
| [14:44:02] | stichnot: | let users break it, but the first font they see (default setting) shouldn't be terrible |
| [14:44:03] | sphery: | I don't mind that approach, unless it results in tickets about captions being broken :) |
| [14:46:55] | stichnot: | I really haven't seen 608 captions that depend on monospace. But monospace is really needed for the way teletextscreen.cpp is implemented, as stuartm demonstrated with a screenshot. |
| [14:47:12] | stuarta: | is prioritizing mono fonts over prop font in a list a viable option? |
| [14:50:55] | sphery: | So, BTW, I've officially decided that either http://screenfont.ca/ is all talk ( http://screenfont.ca/fonts/today/708/ ) or is another under-funded/under-manned Free project. I've been going there since 2005 hoping that one day they'd actually have their caption/subtitle fonts available (and hoping they'd be released with a Free license--not even sure if that's their intent or if they intend to sell them, but since it's main focus is ... |
| [14:51:01] | sphery: | ... accessibility, I'm hoping they'll be Free). They still don't have their fonts available, though. Oh, and FWIW, they believe Tiresias is a travesty: http://screenfont.ca/fonts/today/Tiresias/ |
| [14:52:12] | stuarta: | that's worse than a mythtv release schedule |
| [14:52:19] | sphery: | hehe |
| [14:52:44] | stichnot: | stuarta: probably, though it doesn't solve the main issue that many users have OSDSubFont=FreeSans in their DB, which will be pre-selected for them in the settings |
| [14:53:48] | sphery: | yeah, switching to a new setting name is a good approach to "clear out the old/broken values" |
| [14:54:12] | sphery: | think he was suggesting making the widget for that new setting prioritize mono... |
| [14:55:13] | sphery: | I do agree that mono looks ugly and is hard to read, though, so I was really hoping we could not use it where not required (whether we have a setting or not)--i.e. mainly for 708 default font and subtitles |
| [14:57:17] | sphery: | so if we do that, we could have a setting that uses whatever font the user chooses (no need to prioritize or limit to mono) and use it only for the "doesn't have to be mono" captions/subtitles, and I don't think many people will complain about our particular choice of ugly monospace font for types that require mono |
| [14:57:18] | stichnot: | prioritizing mono is orthogonal to having old FreeSans values lying around. The latter is the serious problem, imo. |
| [14:57:58] | sphery: | right, but you've solved that problem with a new setting name--DefaultSubtitleFont |
| [14:58:35] | stuarta: | apart from the problem that everyone already has the OSDSubFont defined already, which would override the default |
| [14:59:10] | sphery: | if we use a new setting name, and never use OSDSubFont, OSDSubFont is irrelevant |
| [15:08:44] | stichnot: | If we move to DefaultSubtitleFont, I think we should use it everywhere, including cc608 and teletext. First, users will complain that we took away their favorite font for no good reason. Second, I like to have consistency across all recordings/videos, so I pick one font that looks reasonable everywhere I use captions. |
| [15:09:02] | stuartm: | sphery: the one thing I've learnt is that there is always at least one font nutcase who will pour scorn on a typeface, especially a font that aims to be readable and functional over aesthetic perfectionism (it's like an art critic expressing their opinion of a road sign) |
| [15:09:06] | xavierh: | how to use multiplestate type in the xml files? |
| [15:11:43] | ** stuarta and modern art do not get along ** | |
| [15:11:44] | stuartm: | we don't have a 'multiplestate' type? |
| [15:12:17] | xavierh: | stuartm: sorry I mean multpiple statetype |
| [15:12:39] | xavierh: | multiple |
| [15:12:54] | xavierh: | still doesn't look right |
| [15:14:48] | xavierh: | I am trying to give a different look depending of the setting type, so I habe the buttonitem state type + widgettype (such as combobox, checkbox, spinbox ...) |
| [15:14:58] | xavierh: | s/habe/have |
| [15:18:26] | sphery: | stichnot: sounds reasonable. I was just expecting someone to come along and say, "If I set it for good teletext, all my other fonts are ugly" or whatever, but there probably aren't too many actually using teletext (I guess?) and, like you said, it doesn't seem to be that big a deal for 608 fonts, so most will probably just choose a non-mono font that looks good to them. Though, from that standpoint, we could just put back OSDSubFont, and use ... |
| [15:18:32] | sphery: | ... whatever they previously selected (or whatever default they've grown accustomed to) |
| [15:19:02] | sphery: | I'll trust you to come up with the best solution. Oh, and FWIW, welcome to the world of, "You can't please everyone." |
| [15:19:13] | xavierh: | stuartm: forget about me, I have a perfect example with checkable button list item |
| [15:20:25] | stichnot: | sphery: yeah, thanks :) |
| [15:21:37] | stichnot: | but before rushing into anything, I at least want to hear more specifics from the user in question |
| [15:22:12] | sphery: | yeah, definitely a good idea |
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| [15:24:44] | xavierh: | what is the purpose of the attribute name for imagetype ? (use for checkbox) |
| [15:32:00] | xavierh: | the type attribute from state element seems to be redundant with the name attribute of imagetype, but it must be there for a reason, which I don't understand... any light ? |
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| [15:51:13] | stuartm: | xavierh: sorry, had to deal with something else, back now |
| [15:52:05] | stuartm: | xavierh: every ui type takes a name, it's just a way of uniquely identifying each widget |
| [15:53:20] | stuartm: | xavierh: a state can contiain any number of shape/text/imagetype, the contains of the state aren't considered when changing between states, only the type or name of the state itself |
| [15:53:54] | xavierh: | stuartm: ok, I have a new statetype, with different state in it, each state have a imagetype atm, the problem I have is that all the state are shown ate the same time |
| [15:54:36] | stuartm: | xavierh: can you pastebin it? a statetype should only show a single state at a time |
| [15:55:21] | xavierh: | just a sec |
| [15:55:55] | xavierh: | do you want the all widgets or just the statetye ? |
| [15:56:55] | xavierh: | http://pastebin.com/impmAUcj |
| [16:00:49] | xavierh: | http://pastebin.com/BYu4hnWe <= that is more what I try to achieve |
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| [16:11:40] | stuartm: | the statetype looks fine, but you say all the states are being displayed simultaneously? |
| [16:12:34] | stuartm: | can you pastebin the section of code responsible for setting the state? |
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| [16:15:53] | stuartm: | xavierh: sorry for the delay in my replies, I'm in and out of the room |
| [16:16:12] | ** stuarta makes stuartm a cuppa ** | |
| [16:16:32] | xavierh: | stuartm: yes, simultaneously. http://pastebin.com/d57gXZmp |
| [16:16:47] | sphery: | xavierh: TTBOMK, that will happen with Qt painter (at least for some theme stuff? maybe related to pulse?) I'm pretty sure you'll see everything highlighted in Watch Recordings when using Qt painter with Arclight |
| [16:19:19] | sphery: | OK, not seeing that, now, so I'll have to look up references |
| [16:22:38] | stuartm: | xavierh: it's counter-intuitive but for backwards compatibility with some older version of the API DisplayState({statename}, {statetypename}) |
| [16:22:56] | stuartm: | i.e. the other way around to how you've got it not |
| [16:22:58] | stuartm: | now |
| [16:23:26] | stuartm: | although that's an interesting bug, it still shouldn't behave as you're indicating |
| [16:23:36] | xavierh: | sphery: Fresh install, using default theme, I doubt I am using QtPainter, beside this is working for buttoncheck, the only difference is buttoncheck is hard coded in MythUIButtonListItem |
| [16:24:03] | xavierh: | So I should not use DisplayState ? |
| [16:24:27] | stuartm: | xavierh: you should use DisplayState(), just with the arguments reversed |
| [16:24:41] | stuartm: | DisplayState("group", "widgetType") |
| [16:25:05] | cattelan_away is now known as cattelan | |
| [16:25:47] | xavierh: | stuartm: did not pay attention to this, the second paraneter is optionnal I suppose ... thanks a lot |
| [16:34:03] | xavierh: | stuartm: still the same, http://pastebin.com/zYFweQdn is my all buttonitem state |
| [16:39:05] | stuartm: | xavierh: ah, change type='' to name='' – there are two types of state, named states and type states – the difference is again historical and rather confusing, but type states have three fixed states on/off/half and named states can have any number of values with any name |
| [16:39:53] | stuartm: | I should maybe eliminate that legacy behaviour for the sake of simplicity |
| [16:40:00] | xavierh: | stuartm: cool, I believe I copy the example from checkbox |
| [16:41:35] | stuartm: | yeah, statetypes were original designed just for the checkbox widget which could have just three values (don't ask why we have a 'half' state, I don't know) |
| [16:42:21] | stuartm: | I think it's the only place where type="" actually applies and it is confusing, so best to do away with it |
| [16:43:51] | xavierh: | stuartm: work like a charm, thanks again. I guess half is(was) for a tree view when some children are checked (mythmusic) |
| [16:44:21] | xavierh: | btw, what should I do to see the animation stuff, do I have to select a specific theme ? |
| [16:44:25] | stuartm: | xavierh: yeah, I now seem to remember that being the case |
| [16:45:08] | stuartm: | xavierh: I don't think any currently available themes make use of it |
| [16:46:18] | davide_ is now known as davide | |
| [16:47:45] | xavierh: | stuartm: so if I wanted to see it, I would have to modify a theme, correct? |
| [16:48:16] | xavierh: | (I thought I might have a opengl install issue) |
| [16:49:18] | stuartm: | xavierh: yes |
| [16:52:51] | kenni: | danielk22: Is it correctly understood that your fix for "getting stuck on a mux" should automatically make the backend select a free tuner rather than staying on the same and failing channel change (failing as in being returned to the already tuned channel)? It doesn't seem to work on my system with a dual HDHR with 2x3 virtual tuners. I'll look some more into it first, but if you need logs, which verbosity arguments should I then use? |
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| [17:06:18] | stuartm: | kenni: no, that's gigem's change which hasn't been committed yet |
| [17:06:38] | stuartm: | or not, think I'm confusing the two |
| [17:10:46] | kenni: | stuartm: I thought gigem's patch was to prioritise live tv tuners or something like that. Oh, well, I'll look into it tomorrow. The backlog from danielk22 seems to suggest mythfrontend -v playback,channel. |
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| [17:36:50] | stuartm: | sphery: I'm thinking of using -1 in DeleteMaxAge to mean 'quick' <10 minute deletes, it's the least likely to cause confusion because we don't change the meaning of 0 for 0.25 – does that sound good? |
| [17:39:03] | stuartm: | when we use mythui for that stuff we can actually use templated text so that -1 displays 'Delete Immediately', zero displays 'Delete as required' and everything else 'Delete after x days' |
| [17:41:21] | sphery: | stuartm: yeah, I had actually mentioned that as a possibility--especially if changing to always use the AutoExpireInsteadOfDelete broke the "immediately delete from deleted group" functionality |
| [17:42:57] | stuartm: | yep, my plan is to hardwire AutoExpireInsteadOfDelete, removing that setting from the UI and just leave DeleteMaxAge, defaulting to -1 (and updating all existing installs where AEIOD was disabled to -1) |
| [17:43:36] | stichnot: | Is DeleteMaxAge a new setting? |
| [17:43:46] | sphery: | oh, wait, I misread your question... actually that sounds fine to me... I just thought it was prettier to have 0 mean "0 days", but, as you said, that's a bigger change for feature freeze |
| [17:43:47] | stuartm: | then it's just a case of a new expire type, which I'm calling emQuickDeletedPrograms |
| [17:44:46] | sphery: | then again, I'm the one who always says to use the UI to set settings values, so this will just help to show users why when they poke 0 in there and things don't delete :) |
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| [17:45:09] | atpa8a: | hello |
| [17:45:15] | stuartm: | sphery: it's prettier sure, but zero days currently means something else entirely (keep deleted recordings indefinitely until the space is required) and it's messier to fix that pre-0.25, or post 0.25 because I've no idea what value we'd use instead |
| [17:45:28] | atpa8a: | does mythtv backend need X? |
| [17:45:39] | sphery: | stichnot: DeletedMaxAge has been there almost as long as AutoExpireInsteadOfDelete (it was added shortly after because some users felt that they needed to see empty space) |
| [17:45:53] | sphery: | atpa8a: /topic (you want #mythtv-users ) |
| [17:45:58] | atpa8a: | oh |
| [17:45:59] | atpa8a: | sorry |
| [17:46:01] | atpa8a: | thanks |
| [17:46:02] | stichnot: | sphery: yeah, I just found DeletedMaxAge. "git grep DeleteMaxAge" turned up nothing... :) |
| [17:46:03] | stuartm: | stichnot: old setting, just adding a new value to achieve a new delete behaviour |
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| [18:40:26] | gast: | Hello...is there a minimal opengl version required for 0.25? |
| [18:54:17] | wagnerrp: | 2.0 |
| [18:54:26] | sphery: | gast: let's talk in #mythtv-users |
| [18:54:32] | stichnot: | so #10386 is interesting. It looks like mythfrontend |
| [18:55:19] | stichnot: | it looks like "mythfrontend --jumppoint" is trying to execute the jump point before qApp->exec() is called. Is this reasonable? |
| [18:56:17] | stuartm: | no, at that stage nothing relating to handling jumppoints is setup |
| [18:57:40] | sphery: | would have been nice if they included a backtrace (I mean it seems Bill even went to the trouble of getting it to create a core file) |
| [18:57:59] | sphery: | (and what's with the middle man, anyway? Why didn't warped just report it?) |
| [18:58:19] | wagnerrp: | stichnot: the application does not return from exec() until after everything is being torn down |
| [18:58:21] | stichnot: | I reproduced it on the first attempt. the segfault is kind of a red herring |
| [18:59:07] | stichnot: | if it didn't segfault, live TV would immediately exit because it is trying to handle the queued up EXIT_TO_MENU event |
| [18:59:21] | stichnot: | which is sent as part of the new jump point handling |
| [19:00:03] | stichnot: | as a band-aid, I could suppress the EXIT_TO_MENU event if I could tell whether qApp->exec() has been called yet |
| [19:00:39] | stichnot: | but I'm kind of surprised that jump points work at all from the command line, given how it's implemented |
| [19:02:06] | sphery: | stuartm: does that mean this is invalid? https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/ . . . in.cpp#L1738 |
| [19:02:39] | wagnerrp: | stichnot: all JumpTo does is post a new event that the jump should occur |
| [19:02:50] | stichnot: | wagnerrp: good point, I just saw that |
| [19:03:00] | wagnerrp: | the jump doesnt actually happen until you return back to main.cpp, run exec(), and let the Qt event loop handle the event |
| [19:03:45] | wagnerrp: | the jumppoint behavior operates the same way being able to enter plugins directly from the command line did for years |
| [19:03:59] | wagnerrp: | as to why the change of that line is producing a segfault, i dont know |
| [19:04:01] | stichnot: | ok, so I'm no longer surprised :) |
| [19:04:32] | wagnerrp: | perhaps since it never actually started from the menu |
| [19:04:40] | wagnerrp: | the location of the main manu is unknown |
| [19:05:01] | wagnerrp: | just a guess |
| [19:05:26] | stuartm: | I'm a little suprised that you can add events to the queue before an eventloop even exists ... |
| [19:06:02] | stichnot: | clearly I have to deal with the race condition coming from my change https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/307da . . . 6039ed1d143/ |
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| [19:12:22] | stichnot: | the segfault happens because the EXIT_TO_MENU handler in tv_play.cpp is trying to dereference mctx->player which is still NULL. But even if the code avoided the null dereference, the player would exit immediately as a result of that queued event, which is wrong. |
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| [19:20:44] | stichnot: | looks like I can just avoid sending the EXIT_TO_MENU event if already at the top level main menu, should be an equally simple implementation, but it shows me how much this needs a rework :) |
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| [19:29:41] | stichnot: | can anyone find the mythtv-users thread referenced in #10386? |
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| [19:43:27] | danielk22: | Is github down again? |
| [19:43:57] | sphery: | stichnot: on #10389 , the guy is saying that "In the recording editor, when I set the navigation mode to 'Keyframe', and I hit right, then left, then right, then left, I don't just alternate between the same 2 key frames." |
| [19:44:25] | sphery: | i.e. 99.99999% positive it's just an off-by-one type issue when figuring out which keyframe to go to (probably only when "standing" on a keyframe) |
| [19:44:53] | wagnerrp: | !url down github.com |
| [19:44:53] | MythLogBot: | No match for keyword down |
| [19:44:53] | stichnot: | that's what I thought, but I haven't been able to reproduce it on master |
| [19:44:59] | wagnerrp: | hmm.. |
| [19:45:01] | sphery: | IIRC, if you hit right, you go 2 keyframes from here, then left goes back 1 (and another left will take you back to where you were) |
| [19:45:03] | wagnerrp: | !url — list |
| [19:45:13] | sphery: | I haven't tried on master, but it happens to me on -fixes |
| [19:45:23] | sphery: | I think the reporter is using fixes... let me look up the thread |
| [19:45:28] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: is 'down' disabled over here? |
| [19:45:34] | stichnot: | yes, he is using fixes |
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| [19:45:44] | wagnerrp: | danielk22: anyway, at least the site appears up here |
| [19:45:46] | stichnot: | and I'm not set up to test -fixes |
| [19:46:16] | sphery: | (Oh, and I dont think the #10386 conversation was on list, ... Pretty sure that was off list or maybe on some forum somewhere and he just said "warped from #mythtv-users" to say which warped it was :) |
| [19:46:33] | stichnot: | ah, that would make sense... |
| [19:47:08] | stichnot: | I missed the "#", only saw "list" |
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| [19:47:48] | sphery: | hehe, even though I typed # (habit. in here), I also missed the # because he said list :) |
| [19:48:15] | sphery: | in that case, let me check IRC logs |
| [19:49:23] | sphery: | stichnot: http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/1/2012-02-26:13:06:12 |
| [19:49:26] | stichnot: | I appear to have a fix for #10386, but I want to test it in front of the TV first |
| [19:50:24] | sphery: | I'll test #10389 on master with some of my recordings where I know it does that, and if it's fixed will close the ticket |
| [19:51:25] | stichnot: | ok thanks. |
| [19:53:40] | davide: | kenni: you got it right. danielk22's change decides what channels you can switch to. if you need to switch cards, my change effectively picks which one to switch to. |
| [19:55:33] | davide: | sphery: you're doing a schema update anyway, right? if so, you can make -1 mean delete as needed and 0 mean delete very quickly if that makes more sense. iow, you can change the meaning of 0 as long as you fix any existing settings the user already has. |
| [19:56:58] | danielk22: | stichnot: the problem is line 8912 of tv_play.cpp, it doesn't check if mtx is null or mtx->player is null. |
| [19:57:25] | danielk22: | stichnot: I've pushed a fix. |
| [19:58:33] | sphery: | davide: I'm not planning any schema updates, and don't think stuartm was doing one (since he's not changing AutoExpireInsteadOfDelete, but just completely removing it and not checking any setting value) |
| [19:59:43] | sphery: | (that said, I'd love for us to do 6 more... we're on schema version 1298, now, and 0.21 had version 1214, 0.22 had 1244, 0.23 had 1254, 0.24 had 1264, so we're going to break a nice string of "schema version ends with 4" releases :) |
| [20:00:27] | danielk22: | kenni: If you are changing channels using browse mode or direct channel entry my patch will choose the card to use, from among the free ones returned by the function davide worked on. |
| [20:00:57] | davide: | sphery: right, but what about the case where the user played with jeiod previously and set deletedmaxage and then turned jeiod back off. s/he might be in for a surprise when jeiod is turned back on automatically. |
| [20:03:03] | stuartm: | sphery, davide: there will be a schema update since we need to change the MaxDeletedAge for existing users since may be set to >= 0 even if 'expire instead of delete' is false |
| [20:03:09] | sphery: | good point... and, if stuartm is going to set DeletedMaxAge to -1 for those of us who didn't enable expireinsteadofdelete, I guess he will need a schema update |
| [20:03:13] | stuartm: | or what davide just said |
| [20:03:33] | ** stuartm didn't read the entirety of scrollback before replying ** | |
| [20:03:56] | sphery: | anyway, I can live with either value--0 or -1--meaning "now", so I'll leave it up to stuartm (aka the guy doing all the work :) |
| [20:05:25] | stuartm: | it's a one or two line change in the patch, I guess zero is more logical for 'immediate' deletes, I was just wary of change the meaning of zero in case users don't read the amended helptext |
| [20:08:21] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: none of the URLs are defined for this channel |
| [20:08:48] | wagnerrp: | oh |
| [20:09:01] | stuartm: | delete immediately is the exact opposite to delete only when space is needed – although in practice very similar behaviour when disks have reached full capacity which would ultimately become the normal case when a backend has been running for a few weeks/months |
| [20:10:08] | stuartm: | I'll switch them around then, since an existing user of '0' would expect the recordings to be deleted pretty quickly anyway since they'd never have enough space available |
| [20:26:13] | stuartm: | I wonder how 'mythfrontend --jumppoint "Live TV"' is any different from mythavtest |
| [20:27:45] | sphery: | does it go back out to the menu when you exit playback? |
| [20:27:56] | sphery: | s/menu/UI/ |
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| [20:45:45] | stuartm: | no, but I'm trying to imagine a use-case where it starts up in LiveTV but you still to be able to exit back to the menus, maybe I'm just not imaginative enough :) |
| [20:46:01] | stuartm: | s/still to/still want to/ |
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| [21:23:43] | stichnot: | danielk22: your #10386 change fixes the segfault, but the problem still exists that the Live TV jumppoint may exit immediately. |
| [21:24:09] | stichnot: | I have a fix for that, but want to test it at home first |
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| [22:02:30] | kenni: | danielk22: Thank you, that explains it, I always change channels using the guide. I can confirm it works fine when using direct channel entry. |
| [22:05:30] | danielk22: | kenni: ok, so it doesn't work using the guide? ... Sounds like another code path for me to test.. :P |
| [22:07:48] | kenni: | danielk22: Correct, it doesn't work using the guide :) |
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| [22:21:47] | stuartm: | does anyone know offhand how frequently the auto-expirer checks for pending deletes? |
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| [22:24:07] | stuartm: | hmm, I'm guessing with the housekeeping thread which appears to be every 5–6 minutes |
| [22:26:25] | stuartm: | ok, so I see a couple of issues with the recorded recgroup stuff – we can't promise deletion after 10 minutes if the housekeeper is running every 6 minutes, at best it's deletion somewhere between 10 and 16 minutes |
| [22:27:46] | stuartm: | and the autoexpire isn't sending RECORDING DELETE events to update the UI, which is actually a nice bug to find since it's meant that recordings stay visible in the UI even after they've been auto-expired |
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| [22:49:43] | sphery: | stuartm: I'm pretty sure it runs every 15min when not recording, but up to every 5min while recording and around recordings |
| [22:50:42] | stuartm: | hmm, so immediate deletes are less immediate than advertised :) |
| [22:51:01] | sphery: | when done by expire thread, yeah |
| [22:51:12] | sphery: | but we could signal the expire thread to run, now, if it's that big a deal |
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| [22:52:34] | sphery: | (or, for 0.25, say it's good enough, and add the code to wake the expirer after release?) |
| [22:52:35] | stuartm: | sphery: I've a feeling that some users will see it as a big deal |
| [22:53:02] | sphery: | I won't argue with you--after all, any change is a big deal (more changes mean we'll never succeed in reproducing MythTV 0.18.1) |
| [22:54:21] | stuartm: | I'm only moaning because it stretches out the testing ;) |
| [22:54:51] | sphery: | yes, I completely understand your pain |
| [22:55:06] | stuartm: | and I'll have to re-word the help text to change '10 minutes' to '10–25 minutes' |
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| [22:56:02] | sphery: | I like the units of "soon" best (rather than actual promises :) |
| [22:56:03] | stuartm: | anyway, aside from the that minor issue and the missing DELETE events it's working as advertised |
| [22:56:38] | sphery: | especially since if you have slow deletes enabled, it could start at time X, but will take 2min/GB to actually delete |
| [22:56:47] | stuartm: | sphery: soon is a little too subjective, for those in a hurry it will mean seconds ;) |
| [22:57:44] | stuartm: | and merely stating the upper limit will upset those that thought they had 25 minutes in which to undelete |
| [22:57:55] | sphery: | in the long term, I had imagined it waking the expirer thread, but don't think it's /that/ important for 0.25 |
| [22:58:30] | sphery: | are you actually putting a 10min limit in there? could just put no limit on it, then it's "soon" in terms of could be 1s from now, or 15min from now, whenever the expirer runs |
| [22:59:13] | sphery: | (and, yeah, you could say 15min to the user, but rather than adding 10 to what may well already be 15...) |
| [22:59:43] | jams: | oh just say within 30 minutes |
| [23:00:06] | sphery: | the downside is that if the user happened to run it right before the expirer ran, they wouldn't be able to undelete, but I'd argue those users who want undelete should set DeletedMaxAge to at least 1 |
| [23:00:20] | sphery: | jams: within 30 minutes or your pizza is free? |
| [23:00:44] | jams: | within 30 minutes or you get to keep your recording |
| [23:00:47] | stuartm: | I liked the idea of allowing any recording to be undeleted, that to me makes the change from just deleting instantly to deleting at set intervals worth having, so some delay is good it just can't be long enough that it becomes an inconvenience |
| [23:02:15] | stuartm: | or to put it another way, allowing everyone to correct a mistake is good, but a genuine mistake is normally realised within seconds and not a full day later |
| [23:02:53] | stuartm: | and if I'm deleting then I want the space back ASAP, maybe because I need it to rip a new DVD |
| [23:03:45] | stuartm: | I'll change it from 10 to 5 given the interval between auto-expirer runs |
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| [23:22:06] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: I assume once the new API is complete that the python/perl bindings won't need direct DB access? |
| [23:23:54] | stuartm: | mythtv/bindings/php/MythBackend.php << the comments indicate that this file needs updating with the new schema version number, but I'm not seeing where |
| [23:24:39] | wagnerrp: | that assumes the API will ever be sufficiently complete as to completely remove all need for database access |
| [23:24:57] | wagnerrp: | i dont think it will |
| [23:25:27] | wagnerrp: | say someone wants to write some transcoding utility that stores profiles inside its own database table |
| [23:25:42] | wagnerrp: | right now, the API has no way to account for that |
| [23:26:48] | stuartm: | ok, but it won't need to know the schema version for that, I'm asking because it's a bit of a pain to update the schema in four or more different places |
| [23:27:45] | wagnerrp: | we could modify the make scripts to automatically grab those values out of mythversion.h |
| [23:28:05] | wagnerrp: | and the php bindings do not currently perform schema checks |
| [23:28:25] | stuartm: | fwiw, I think if we allow third party apps to create their own tables they should be segregated in some way, either by using a second database or by requiring a prefix on the table name that ensures those apps don't conflict with our own tables in the future |
| [23:29:34] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: well the scripts need to know the version to check whether they are compatible, no? If they just blinding grabbed the version string from the header then that defeats the point |
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| [23:30:12] | wagnerrp: | the assumption being that the bindings currently packaged with the source ARE compatible |
| [23:30:39] | stuartm: | but at some near future date I'd like to split the schema version and schema updates from data updates and create a new data version number |
| [23:31:36] | sphery: | (I think he means have the build script pull the version from mythversion.h in the repo that's being compiled/installed and write it into the bindings code) |
| [23:31:50] | wagnerrp: | right, not pull it out of the installed headers |
| [23:31:51] | stuartm: | these days at least half of all 'schema' updates are nothing of the sort, they usually don't hurt compatibility |
| [23:31:59] | wagnerrp: | pull it out of its own source directory |
| [23:32:23] | wagnerrp: | i.e. ../../libs/libmythbase/mythversion.h |
| [23:34:28] | mirage335 (mirage335!~mirage335@mirage335.dyndns.org) has left #mythtv () | |
| [23:36:47] | wagnerrp: | stuartm: this was always something we were going to run into when the database got merged into the master backend |
| [23:36:57] | wagnerrp: | to be honest, i really dont know a clean way to handle it |
| [23:42:57] | frankster: | hi all. I am just configuring my devinput remote. it looks like I have to use the .lirc config file to map to key presses that lirc passes to mythtv. But if I change a key configuration within mythtv, I would also have to update my lirc config. Am I missing something? mapping directly to devinput events would seem to make more sense |
| [23:43:26] | ** stuartm sighs ** | |
| [23:44:18] | frankster: | is this feature planned or does it already exist? seems something that oculd be worth me working on |
| [23:44:48] | stuartm: | frankster: it's so much more complicated than that, for a start most remotes generate keypresses outside the range supported by X, no support in X means no events even reaching mythtv |
| [23:45:56] | stuartm: | frankster: and you would be the 50th person to suggest the feature (it comes up several times a year), probably the 10th to work on it and yet here we are without a workable solution |
| [23:46:04] | frankster: | ha |
| [23:46:20] | xavierh: | frankster: I have this nearly working, i.e just the mythcontrol integration left to do. but it does work only with mythui so I need to wait until the old ui is completly gone |
| [23:47:13] | j-rod is now known as j-rod|afk | |
| [23:47:27] | frankster: | xavierh: so are you listening directly to devinput instead of going via X? |
| [23:47:50] | frankster: | could maybe give you a hand if there's anything you need doing |
| [23:48:54] | zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | |
| [23:49:36] | stuartm: | a couple of dozen kernel devs invested considerable time and effort in having remote controls issue keypress events to eradicate the need for lirc, but someone forgot to check whether that would be OK with X11, which of course being a 20+ year old protocol it's not, they limit the range of input events to an 8bit field, or a maximum of 255 possible keys of which almost all are dealing with a standard set of keyboard keys |
| [23:50:10] | stuartm: | frankster: you can't listen direct, the perms don't allow it, you would have to run mythtv as root |
| [23:50:44] | xavierh: | frankster: No because of permission, so I use lirc but without the need to have a valid lircrc file |
| [23:51:17] | frankster: | ha if only there was some kind of daemon that could listen to the device and pass the keys to mythtv.. oh wait :) |
| [23:52:04] | xavierh: | lirc is the kind of demon, the only problem is to create lircrc, my patch remove the need for that file |
| [23:52:16] | frankster: | ye i was joking :p |
| [23:52:23] | xavierh: | :D |
| [23:53:15] | frankster: | ah so |
| [23:53:19] | stuartm: | X12 is supposed to deal with this, but X12 is just a possible future roadmap, no-one is actually working on it yet and so even if they started tomorrow you can probably imagine it will take years to filter down to distros |
| [23:53:53] | frankster: | hmm another approach could be for mythtv to specify the keymap for lirc |
| [23:54:07] | wagnerrp: | assuming they dont decide to ditch it completely and go with weyland |
| [23:54:45] | ** wagnerrp shudders at the thought of a non-networked display interface ** | |
| [23:54:47] | xavierh: | frankster: no point because mythtv deal with context already (mode in lirc) |
| [23:55:47] | xavierh: | and mythtv does not support the lirc mode. |
| [23:56:57] | stuartm: | I find it just bizarre that linux's kernel <> UI interface is still based around a protocol that hasn't changed since 1991 (X10 was 89 or 90 iirc), it just died a death probably in the name of 'stability' |
| [23:58:38] | frankster: | i guess that's one of the reasons it got forked |
| [23:58:50] | frankster: | or XFree86 anyway |
| [23:58:51] | xavierh: | how weyland is in this area ? |
| [23:59:00] | stuartm: | frankster: it's possible to define a lircrc and never have to change it again, it is after all just a mapping of remote keys to keyboard keys, you don't need to modify it to change the behaviour in MythTV |
| [23:59:39] | frankster: | stuartm: yep though its a pain point when using mythtv, and maybe its something that has to be solved by distributions |
| [23:59:53] | stuartm: | frankster: yep, but both projects still stick to the same core protocol to maintain compatibility |
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