| Tuesday, August 30th, 2011, 00:09 UTC | ||
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| [00:18:02] | danielk22: | sphery: re [1de043119] Would it make sense for us to hash those strings at the time of insertion? Then those string equals comparisons would just be big integer comparisons... |
| [00:21:05] | sphery: | as it is with mysql doing the comparisons on the first 1024 chars (which is what it did back before I changed description from text to varchar), it seems to be relatively efficient--on the order a few seconds for UK RT users, it seems, and about a minute and a half for Jan S/tv_grab_eu_epgdata users. I think, though, that with the "re-use prepared statement" change in master, that would go down a bit, too. |
| [00:22:24] | sphery: | besides, after reporting the issue the other day, Jan S (yunosh in IRC) became the maintainer for tv_grab_eu_epgdata and is actually going to look into getting real programids in there :) |
| [00:22:45] | danielk22: | sphery: what about indexes ? can they function when we limit the portion of the string we're comparing.. and should be be building an index on the description (I assume we aren't currently). |
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| [00:25:05] | sphery: | we don't have any indices on description at all, but for all text-type columns in indices in mysql, you have to specify an index prefix length to use for the index... with char and varchar, the prefix length is optional, but we could use it on description if we later include that in any indices |
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| [00:26:37] | sphery: | it probably would be useful to hash the descriptions in the future--I'll put it on my TODO, but since we're back to the 0.23-and-below performance, it will be a ways down the list |
| [00:27:02] | danielk22: | sphery: so 1/ we might get better performance without limits if we had an index on description and 2/ we could still limit the comparison to whatever number of characters we want.. |
| [00:28:23] | sphery: | yeah... only reason I went with 1024 is because it's a reasonably long length and it's equivalent to what mysql was using before we switched description to varchar |
| [00:29:32] | danielk22: | sphery: Actually since we can index on these I think that would be better than adding hash columns.. we'd gain the same benefits and with the only cost really being on the insertion side which doesn't need to be fast. While hash columns complicate both the insertion and scheduling logic. |
| [00:29:34] | sphery: | seems the tv_grab_eu_epgdata users have descriptions up to around 3500chars and IIRC UK RT users see them up to a couple thousand |
| [00:30:35] | sphery: | ah, yeah, that's a good point... We don't currently have a title/subtitle/description index--but that's probably mainly because most of us devs have programids, so no one ever really thought to add one |
| [00:31:46] | sphery: | and adding a new index is a /much/ quicker change (one that could go up high on my TODO list :) |
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| [00:33:20] | danielk22: | The scheduler is heavily optimized for Bruce and David :) I remember complaining about the scheduler wreaking my recordings when taking minutes to run only to learn it took single digit seconds for Bruce. |
| [00:34:19] | sphery: | heh, it's single digit seconds for me... Oh, and that reminds me |
| [00:35:11] | sphery: | Today in -users some were talking about DBHostName and it got me to thinking... It seems that a lot of them in the thread were using either a routable IP address or hostname for DBHostName setting for MythTV--even on the host that's running mysqld (usually the master backend host). |
| [00:36:27] | sphery: | I'm starting to wonder if some/all of these DB-related lockups may be due to distros ripping an entire network configuration out from under MythTV by removing the IP address, etc., when it detects the network disappearing (even briefly) |
| [00:37:11] | danielk22: | You mean "networkmanager strikes again!" |
| [00:37:31] | sphery: | I'm going to try to find out if some of those users who were affected see any benefit by switching their MBE (assuming it's on the same host as the mysqld server) to use localhost for the DBHostName to get the benefit of Unix sockets and non-network-reliance |
| [00:37:54] | sphery: | heh, yeah, might be... I'll let you know if the theory pans out |
| [00:38:29] | sphery: | that said, even if that is the cause, it's nice to have the Qt-MySQL code fixed up to work like Qt wants it |
| [00:38:50] | sphery: | and it may help users who don't configure with localhost on the mbe |
| [00:39:09] | danielk22: | It's an interesting one, might provide relief for those running 0.24 since some of those changes are not really backportable. |
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| [00:49:29] | danielk22: | sphery: The reconnect logic is backportable and there is definitely a problem with the reconnect logic in 0.24, so we should backport it. |
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| [00:56:59] | iamlindoro: | Hmm, silicondust has a web API for reconciling ClearQAM channels with names and logic numberings-- who know |
| [00:57:00] | iamlindoro: | er knew |
| [01:01:13] | jya: | stuartm: :) A PC keyboard.. I think it was Beirdo wh linked to it.. With like keys that don't even have any meanings |
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| [11:41:07] | stuartm: | sphery: so the same issue I fixed for fe <> be connections occurring with mysql? That would be interesting given the complaints received when people _thought_ that I was forcing localhost for the database :) |
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| [13:29:12] | sphery: | stuartm: hehe, yeah |
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| [14:57:44] | davide_: | sphery: if you add an index for description, check with me about doing the same for subtitle and in oldrecorded. it could make a big difference in scheduling times for non-programid users. |
| [14:59:18] | davide_: | danielk22: the biggest thing you can do to keep scheduler run time low is to keep your oldrecorded table as small as possible. also, if you specific issues, i'm always happy to look into them. |
| [15:01:34] | danielk22: | davide_: My rescheduling time isn't really that bad these days; Bruce helped me with the worst offenders. I actually like keeping a long oldrecorded table since it allows me to find the one or two episodes I missed from old series. |
| [15:03:02] | davide_: | danielk22: fwiw, i'd prefer to leave old recorded alone also, just not at the expense of reasonably quick shedule times. reasonably quick for me is 2–3 seconds. |
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| [15:17:19] | sphery: | davide_: yeah, I was planning to do the index with description, but wanted to ask you about what one(s) you wanted for it... for the mfdb first/last episode marking, a title/subtitle/description(1024) would be appropriate, but I thought just doing description(1024) (non-unique) would be more useful in general... what were you thinking? |
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| [15:47:39] | arden: | What interlacer does opengl use? |
| [15:52:33] | wagnerrp: | mythtv doesnt do interlacing |
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| [15:56:33] | sphery: | arden: and more details can be found in #mythtv-users :) per the /topic |
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| [16:10:42] | davide_: | sphery: i think non-unique, individual indexes for subtitle and description would work best for the scheduler. |
| [16:14:42] | sphery: | davide_: Sounds good. So create both indices for program and oldrecorded? Currently, oldrecorded has a recstatus/title/subtitle index (recstatus_2) but none on subtitle alone and none on/including description, and program has no indices on/including subtitle or description. |
| [16:15:14] | davide_: | yes. |
| [16:15:20] | sphery: | will do, thanks |
| [16:22:38] | stuartm: | IMHO we shouldn't be messing with our oldrecorded tables as devs when it's not something most users would be doing, it distorts our experience of issues such as scheduling times |
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| [16:29:18] | sphery: | FWIW, I have never deleted anything from oldrecorded other than shows whose recording files were lost due to HDD failures (back before we had the option to mark to allow re-record)--I like to have MythTV maintain my entire viewing history, and I even add Never Records for movies I see at the theater or on DVD. I currently have 14605 entries in it, and my scheduling times have always been single-digit seconds. Granted, I have only OTA channels ... |
| [16:29:24] | sphery: | ... (not a 10,000-channel cable lineup). Recent runs (and, yeah, we're currently between seasons, so there aren't many shows to schedule) look like: 2011-08–30 08:47:30.969 Scheduled 412 items in 0.9 = 0.03 match + 0.87 place |
| [16:43:07] | westlock: | http://ioio.ca/2250log6 clean install linuxmce rc1. Trying to get video on the core working first. Only recieving channel guide text. |
| [16:44:04] | wagnerrp: | you want user support, see topic (#mythtv-users) |
| [16:44:17] | westlock: | ah damn again my bad bro |
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| [19:37:13] | ernstp: | joined to ask about a problem but now I actually solved it |
| [19:37:56] | ernstp: | seems the ffmpeg decoder fails on the mpeg streams from some of my dvb-t channes when it's using > 1 thread |
| [19:40:41] | ernstp: | What's that feature called in the English gui? "Maximum number of CPUs"? "Maximum number of processors"? |
| [19:47:57] | stuartm: | "Max CPUs" |
| [19:52:06] | ernstp: | Ah, it's a bug in upstream ffmpeg, can reproduce it with ffplay -threads 2 easily |
| [19:52:28] | ernstp: | Does mythtv build it's own ffmpeg or does it use system ffmpeg? |
| [20:02:00] | sphery: | our own copy, but if you'd like to fix the issue, you'll need to do so through the upstream (ffmpeg or libav?) project and we'll pick up the fix in a future re-sync. |
| [20:05:26] | ernstp: | found a ppa with daily builds of libav, seems like it's fixed there |
| [20:05:57] | ernstp: | how often do you resync? |
| [20:07:48] | iamlindoro: | Once per release on average |
| [20:07:50] | sphery: | So, re: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10015 , the kernel explicitly disables core dumpability for setuid processes for security reasons. I'm leary of overriding this precaution in our code. Do you think it's reasonable to just tell users/distros who want to use --user to allow the root user to start mythbackend, but allow it to run as the mythtv user, that they will need to use sysctl to enable fs.suid_dumpable (see ... |
| [20:07:56] | sphery: | ... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging#Getting_a_core_file ). |
| [20:08:19] | sphery: | danielk22 or anyone else who knows kernel/Unix stuff better than I ^^^ |
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| [20:16:57] | danielk22: | sphery: I think we should consider running mythtv applications suid root as unsupported. It's not a smart thing to do even if your machine is not connected to the internet. |
| [20:19:22] | sphery: | It was something the mythbuntu guys added in #7832--AIUI because upstart doesn't have a way of starting an app as another user or something |
| [20:20:33] | danielk22: | superm1: ^^^ Can you speak to this? can upstart start an app as any user now? |
| [20:21:33] | superm1: | upstart does not have a way to start an app as a user. the app will have to drop it's gid, uid and euid, egid |
| [20:21:58] | tgm4883: | superm1, is that still not out yet? |
| [20:22:04] | danielk22: | superm1: Can't we just use su in the upstart script? |
| [20:22:17] | superm1: | no the problem with using su is that you start an interactive consolekit session |
| [20:22:23] | tgm4883: | supposedly it's in the pipeline, but the last mention I see of it is in Jan |
| [20:22:28] | superm1: | so the system thinks a user is logged in |
| [20:22:37] | tgm4883: | err, July |
| [20:23:10] | superm1: | tgm4883, i didn't hear about the functionality landing recently at least, but i haven't kept entirely up to date on their (upstart team) development timeline |
| [20:23:42] | tgm4883: | superm1, I'm just looking at http://superuser.com/questions/213416/running . . . ileged-users |
| [20:23:58] | tgm4883: | which indicates they asked in the #upstart channel, I'll see if I can see anything in the release notes |
| [20:24:26] | danielk22: | sphery: I think we can just ask users to run the backend manually to get a backtrace.. or use an init.d script, that still works on ubuntu.. |
| [20:24:48] | sphery: | OK... I'll go ahead and close it wontfix for now |
| [20:24:51] | superm1: | so am i to understand that core dumps on the backend are faulty because of this? |
| [20:26:11] | sphery: | the kernel disables dumping of core contents when a process changes its uid (or due to other "tainting" actions). You can modify this with fs.suid_dumpable (see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging#Getting_a_core_file ), but unfortunately, it enables any suid program to create core files |
| [20:26:12] | superm1: | i'd like to be able to still generate automatic crash reports from upstart job invoked mythbackend if possible, so maybe we should come up with a better solution then |
| [20:26:55] | sphery: | if you use fs.suid_dumpable=2 , though, it's supposed to be "suid safe" configuration--though I wouldn't recommend running a system with that always set... |
| [20:27:11] | sphery: | see suid_dumpable in /usr/src/linux-`uname -r`/Documentation/sysctl/fs.txt |
| [20:27:47] | danielk22: | sphery: http://pastebin.com/ttk3sP7t <-- here's my init.d for mythtv on ubuntu.. I use it because I still haven't wrapped my head around upstart.. but it actually provides some useful stuff like restart-with-backtrace which restarts while grabbing a backtrace for debugging a deadlock. |
| [20:30:00] | danielk22: | (stop also waits for the process to stop, which I believe was a problem with the original ubuntu init.d) |
| [20:30:02] | superm1: | i'm a bit perplexed why start-stop-daemon wouldn't encounter this same problem |
| [20:30:23] | superm1: | isn't it still changing the uid of the process? |
| [20:30:52] | tgm4883: | superm1, I haven't gotten much of a response (other than use su), but I'd hope that now that other distros are picking up upstart that we would see some of these things |
| [20:31:14] | superm1: | yeah we're not going back to su, that caused way too many problems with consolekit and shutdown |
| [20:31:18] | danielk22: | superm1: it changes it before the mythbackend starts, so mythbackend doesn't need the setuid bit to be set on itself. |
| [20:31:23] | superm1: | ah |
| [20:31:24] | ernstp: | How's mythtv 0.25 these days? |
| [20:32:03] | superm1: | there's other daemons in ubuntu that use upstart like we do, we should check with them too, like the mysql guys |
| [20:32:19] | superm1: | surely they've got the same concerns and want to be able to get core dumps |
| [20:32:26] | danielk22: | sphery: I don't recall this from when more people needed setuid on the backend. Is this a newish security feature? |
| [20:32:37] | sphery: | so, in 2006, MySQL devs rejected a simliar patch ( http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=21361 )... then in 2007, they added a patch ( http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=21723 ) but they did it wrong, so it's still broken |
| [20:33:16] | danielk22: | heh, introduced in 2004.. so it's been in there for a while.. |
| [20:33:48] | danielk22: | s/2004/2.4/ |
| [20:34:37] | sphery: | yeah... I don't get why ubuntu's ever been able to get core files since they switched to using --user... |
| [20:35:00] | superm1: | well it explains why we haven't seen many on the backend i think |
| [20:35:07] | superm1: | only see them on the frontend and mythfilldatabase |
| [20:35:09] | danielk22: | There must have been a recent change in security policy, or the user has special settings.. |
| [20:35:37] | superm1: | how about adding in the patch from 10015 but guarding it with something like --debug ? |
| [20:35:40] | sphery: | I can verify that on my (non-Ubuntu) dev box with a vanilla kernel, I have to either do the prctl() call or use fs.suid_dumpable to enable core file creation if I use --user |
| [20:35:51] | danielk22: | superm1: the backend is pretty stable on the whole, excepting our mysql problems. |
| [20:36:20] | superm1: | well that and upstart respawns it pretty quickly when failures arise so people don't see and complain as much as they would about mythfrontend |
| [20:36:27] | sphery: | superm1: don't you always build with --compile-type=profile then strip out the debug symbols into different files? I thought at least some distros did it that way |
| [20:36:33] | sphery: | meaning we'd always have that code in there... |
| [20:36:43] | superm1: | sphery, yes we do |
| [20:36:53] | superm1: | actually compile-type=debug and strip out the symbols |
| [20:36:54] | sphery: | at which point we might as well just put it in |
| [20:37:05] | superm1: | =profile was not keeping enough to make them useful |
| [20:37:46] | sphery: | (though my rewritten patch actually does prctl(PR_GET_DUMPABLE) and only sets it if we were dumpable before) |
| [20:38:30] | danielk22: | superm1: --compile-type=debug is significantly slower than --compile-type=profile (my laptop can't play most recordings unless I use profile). |
| [20:39:12] | sphery: | yeah, definitely slower--disables a ton of compile-time optimizations |
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| [20:43:34] | danielk22: | I wonder if we have any pull with the upstart folks? maybe we can bump up the priority on this task by pointing out the problem... |
| [20:44:23] | stuartm: | the profile backtrace isn't that bad ... at least in my experience |
| [20:44:45] | sphery: | yeah, I think profile backtraces are fine for 99.9999% of issues |
| [20:45:52] | sphery: | I think maybe there was confusiong over what "not enough information" was desired... I think it's the fact that launchpad tools use core files--and so lack all information about what signal was received, so we can't tell a difference between a segv or an abort or an interrupt or a kill |
| [20:46:11] | superm1: | when we switch to --debug, I did some quick hand testing and I didn't see a performance difference between the two |
| [20:46:51] | superm1: | but if you guys are confident that we'll still capture enough infor with --profile, i'll switch that back |
| [20:47:11] | sphery: | i.e. most devs like the stacktraces with "received signal SIGSEGV in thread #" type information because it tells us where to start looking |
| [20:47:27] | superm1: | well launchpad should be capturing that much either way |
| [20:50:09] | sphery: | yeah, guess that info is in the launchpad page--for example, in the bug description at https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/734131 ... would be nice if launchpad put it at the top of the threadstacktrace |
| [20:50:19] | danielk22: | superm1: 99% of the time profile is enough, there are even times it's preferred like with thread safety issues that often don't even show up at the debug level because debug treats all variables as volatile. |
| [20:50:32] | stuartm: | superm1: I'd say confidently that most devs are using profile instead of debug |
| [20:50:49] | sphery: | yeah, I recommend switching it back to profile |
| [20:50:50] | stuartm: | day to day at least |
| [20:51:06] | superm1: | OK, will do that. and we'll have to make sure we make a point to put what signal it crashed with when forwarding the bug |
| [20:51:08] | superm1: | mrand, ^ |
| [20:51:18] | sphery: | that would be great... thanks |
| [20:51:26] | danielk22: | debug is useful in some rare instances but I use it more often to do quick compiles than for debugging. |
| [20:53:13] | sphery: | superm1: Oh, and btw, Beirdo recently fixed a problem where the plugins weren't getting the proper CFLAGS from the main mythtv configure/build, which allowed me to enable debug symbols in the mythplugins build based on the mythtv package's --compile-type, so make install should now install unstripped plugin libs (on master only), so if you can ensure your strip-symbols-to-another-file script is handling the plugins, that would be great |
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| [20:53:41] | superm1: | so back to the discussion about 10015 patch, if there is a concern about adding it for fear of security, i think guarding it with some sort of variable and then asking people to enable that in their upstart /init script jobs would be fine |
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| [20:54:09] | superm1: | sphery, how recently did that go in? |
| [20:54:23] | sphery: | few days ago--maybe Sat? |
| [20:54:37] | superm1: | ok, i'll see if yesterday's build did it then |
| [20:59:53] | superm1: | sphery, yeah according to the build log, the plugins are stripped too: http://paste.ubuntu.com/678305/ |
| [21:00:39] | sphery: | great, thanks... will be nice to finally get plugin backtraces with debug symbols |
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| [21:25:23] | danielk22: | I think the security implication of allowing core dumps at all is much greater than the suid portion. Unless you are running with a special libc which clears memory passed to malloc you can just create a bunch of recorders by poking the DB and then segfault mythtv and get gobs of private data from all those unused and uninitialized recorder buffers. |
| [21:25:56] | danielk22: | By just adding the coredump location to the storage groups you can then download the coredump and do the whole thing remotely.. |
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| [21:37:43] | sphery: | danielk22: so, it sounds like if we have the code in there and require "user approval" to enable it, most distros will likely enable it, anyway, so should I just assume that any user who runs with --user has "approved" its use? |
| [21:39:01] | sphery: | and, since prctl() is Linux only, do I use: #if defined(__linux__) || defined(__LINUX__) |
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| [21:47:52] | ** Mousey reboots ppc buildbot slave ** | |
| [21:52:17] | Mousey: | its back |
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| [22:26:45] | superm1: | danielk22, but what's to stop you from doing the same thing when ran as a particular uid already? |
| [22:27:17] | superm1: | you figure you can still manipulate the DB and cause the same dump of private data to land |
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| [23:32:34] | sphery: | danielk22: btw, it looks like my DBHostName theory isn't panning out--warpme and Brian both said they have it configured with localhost. So, unless network manager rips out all the networks--including lo--and then brings back up the ones that are still there when a link goes down, that wasn't involved with their issues. |
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