MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

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aloril, andreax, Anduin, Anssi, anykey_, beata, BeeBob, Beirdo, brfransen, cattelan_away, cesman, chainsawbike, Chutt, clever, coling, Cougar, dagar, danielk22, Dave123, dekarl, dlblog, eharris, f33dMB, foobum, FozzieBear, ghoti, Gibby, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, highzeth, iamlindoro, J-e-f-f-A, j-rod|afk, JamesHarrison, jams, jarle, jcarlos, jhp, joe_, jpabq-, jstenback, justinh, jwhite, kc, kenni, knightr, kormoc, kurre2, kwmonroe, laga, mag0o, MaverickTech, Meliorator, mike|2, Mousey, mrand, MythBuild, MythLogBot, okolsi, PointyPumper, poptix, purserj, reynaldo, sailerboy, skd5aner, Slasher`, Snow-Man, sphery, sraue, srk9, stuarta, sutula, ThisNewGuy, tomimo, tris, Unhelpful, vallor, wagnerrp, wahrhaft, ybot, zCougar, zombor, _charly__, _klk_
Wednesday, July 27th, 2011, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:44] stuartm: on balance I guess if the user is resetting everything else then it does
[00:00:47] sphery: So --reset doesn't actually start mythfrontend. That means users wouldn't see the end result until they restart mythfrontend (assuming it's running when they --reset) and we don't have a keybinding equivalent to CLEAR_SETTINGS_CACHE
[00:01:23] sphery: but that's probably ok--I'm guessing most would shut down mythfrontend and do a --reset or would at least restart mythfrontend after the --reset
[00:01:34] wagnerrp: sphery: i went ahead and closed 9174, since the reported behavior is now impossible
[00:01:45] wagnerrp: brian can open up a new ticket for the secondary issue should he wish
[00:01:52] sphery: sounds good to me
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[00:03:17] sphery: stuartm: I'll put adding keybindings reset to --reset on my todo. thanks for the idea
[00:05:59] stuartm: thank iamlindoro, if he hadn't mentioned --reset yesterday then I wouldn't have thought about it
[00:10:37] sphery: iamlindoro: thanks :) ^^^
[00:15:19] sphery: stuartm: so --reset seems to only reset the Appearance settings (plus Theme + Country), not all settings. Did we want it to do more than that?
[00:26:28] xris: sphery: "reset to default" hurray!
[00:26:33] xris: ..keys...
[00:28:49] sphery: Heh, yeah--lots of people have mentioned that on the lists, so it's about time I got it in. I had planned to have it in before 0.24. Anyway, enjoy!
[00:29:40] xris: it would have been handy 5 years ago when I was writing the key editor in myth web. :)
[00:30:02] ** xris kicks the new OSX spelling fixer **
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[01:03:18] jpabq: iamlindoro, I was just trying to make it obvious that that stuff would need changed once the filters became required.
[01:03:29] jpabq: stuartm, thanks for fix the filter stuff up.
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[02:45:37] zdman: sorry new to mythtv and trying to figure out if I run a mythtv server I can have multiple mythtv client machines connected to the server?
[02:45:46] zdman: watching different tv channels?
[02:46:45] sphery: zdman: /topic (you want #mythtv-users )
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[03:10:31] zdman: thanks sphery
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[05:29:51] Beirdo: paul-h: I reverted the stupid patch, you are completely right, and I don't feel like massaging it to get it working otherwise :)
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[09:19:51] paul-h: Beirdo: thanks, I do think it's the right decision on my parents box which has 1000's of large digital camera images it was taking close to a minute to exit out of mythgallery until I reverted the patch
[09:23:17] paul-h: [26203]
[09:23:17] MythLogBot: SVN 26203: (branch master) https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/48fb2493
[09:24:16] stuarta: :( i'm behind by 3090 emails :(
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[09:43:25] stuarta: where do we store the recording groups?
[09:48:01] stuarta: ah, it's just the reference in the recording rule that puts it into a group, the groups themselves don't exist unless something exists in them
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[10:02:01] sphery: stuartm: yeah, its existence in recording rules or recorded shows.
[10:02:21] ** stuarta is over here :) **
[10:04:03] sphery: oops, sorry both stuarts
[10:04:29] stuarta: to be fair he's normally the active one
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[10:06:31] sphery: yeah, I tried to say stuarta, but I'm way to reliant on autocomplete--I should really pay more attention
[10:06:57] stuarta: i don't remember the last time i fully typed someone's nick :)
[10:09:50] stuartm: stuarta: making the recording groups persistant is on my todo list, we need a recordinggroup table and to reference the groups by id and not name
[10:10:37] stuarta: yeah, i'd put it on my todo list, but i've stopped putting things there as i never get to look at it
[10:12:40] stuartm: benefits to doing it 'the right way'™ include code simplifications around translation of default group names
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[10:14:09] stuartm: it's more efficient too
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[10:15:48] stuarta: not to mention you can reuse a group that you have deleted all recordings from
[10:16:32] stuarta: and we can even add support to mythweb for maintaining it
[10:16:41] sphery: and that's my plan, too, for tags (which could easily replace recording groups--but you'd be able to put multiple tags on each recording/rule)
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[10:28:06] paul-h: stuartm: You might wont to review #8787 and #9286 I think one or both can now be closed but I'll leave that up to you to decide
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[10:40:21] stuartm: I've never liked GetTopItemPos(), we should just be doing the right thing internally, but since I don't have the interest in working on that atm it will have to do
[10:49:37] paul-h: stuartm: ?
[10:55:09] stuartm: remembering position by supplying the top position, don't like it, that's supposed to be a purely internal value and shouldn't be exposed in the API, but I conceed that MythUIButtonList doesn't just do the right thing either so somone added it
[10:56:54] stuartm: paul-h: widget behaviour, like remembering the layout across updates should be internal to the widget, not require that every place the list is used keep track of internal state variables
[11:01:50] stuartm: I'll make the buttonlist work as intended eventually, hopefully sooner rather than later
[11:03:07] paul-h: Maybe add a savePosition() and restorePosition() that would try to keep the same item selected and in the same position after the button list is updated?
[11:05:37] stuartm: paul-h: that's the sort of thing I had in mind
[11:06:33] paul-h: Anyway I don't see it being a really big problem myself I'll leave that up to you. The main thing you can now delete expired recording in the status box :)
[11:09:53] stuartm: it's a combination of two things for me, the first is that if we ever re-write or redesign the widget then internal vars like topPosition might cease to exist and so instead of changes being confined to one class we need to update several
[11:10:24] stuartm: I've done one UI port already, I don't want to face another
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[11:11:40] stuartm: the other is that is that the behaviour guaranteed to be more consistent if that logic is part of the widget instead of being implemented several different ways outside the widget
[11:12:52] stuartm: well there's a third and maybe fourth reason too, it's simpler for whoever is using the widget and results in tidier code
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[11:26:48] paul-h: stuartm: I think I may have added the GetTopItemPos() but for a completely different reason. If you wont to dynamically update the buttons to say only load the images for buttons when they become visible you need to know which item is at the top so you can only update the visible ones
[11:28:13] paul-h: of cause you can make that information available some other way but that is what it was originally added for.
[11:30:02] stuartm: paul-h: there is the itemVisible() signal?
[11:30:22] stuartm: which is triggered as the item becomes visible
[11:31:39] stuartm: http://miffteevee.co.uk/documentation/develop . . . 4775017fd1ab
[11:31:58] paul-h: That must have been added after I converted mythzoneminder to mythui or else I just didn't know about it at the time
[11:35:23] paul-h: Only added in September last year by danielk by the look of it so wasn't available when I did the conversion
[12:01:41] stuartm: paul-h: yeah, I wrote it for danielk22 to use in PBB
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[13:42:18] stuartm: paul-h: thanks for that
[13:45:33] paul-h: Don't wont to admit how much time I spent tracking that one one down :) Wasn't even a MythMusic bug in the end
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[16:07:24] stuartm: Beirdo: thanks, I misremembered the order in the time it took me to switch from looking at the header ;)
[16:09:59] Beirdo: heh
[16:10:03] Beirdo: no problem
[16:10:20] Beirdo: I was cleaning up my mess anyways, might as well do the simple swap there
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[17:03:49] sphery: Does anyone have any concerns over my re-enabling automatic reconnection on our MySQL connections (see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/487179#487179 ). This was the default before MySQL 5.0.3, and much of MythTV was designed around the behavior. We've since added lots of code to try to work around lack of reconnection, but since we now require Qt 4.6+, Qt has support for specifying that we want auto-reconnect.
[17:04:41] danielk22: sphery: I didn't know we had disabled it..
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[17:04:57] sphery: well, actually MySQL disabled it for us--and Qt didn't support re-enabling it :)
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[17:06:05] sphery: It might allow us to clean up a lot of our workarounds, but the initial change would just be to specify m_db.setConnectOptions("MYSQL_OPT_RECONNECT"); in MSqlDatabase constructor.
[17:06:08] danielk22: sphery: ah.. i.c. I'm surprised we haven't seen more problems with it being disabled..
[17:08:48] sphery: danielk22: Yeah, our KickDatabase() (which is called for every new MSqlQuery we create) generally notices dead connections (and throws them away), and we have other code that tries to notice failed queries and such (thinks like https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/528324d8 ). I'm hoping that it may fix warpme's issue on #9773 and #9792 and the 3rd one...
[17:09:15] sphery: 3rd one is #9704
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[17:15:22] danielk22: sphery: ok, I am vaguely recollecting our KickDatabase() hack.. :)
[17:15:53] danielk22: Or rather extending it, as we've needed it even when we had automatic reconnects.
[17:16:30] danielk22: Are we sure the Qt reconnect stuff works when the connection is in a thread that doesn't have an event loop? (i.e. most of them).
[17:17:13] sphery: it's actually using MySQL C API to set up the low-level MYSQL connection to use its MySQL-provided-reconnect code
[17:17:38] sphery: so it's actually working at a level lower than Qt
[17:30:09] ** iamlindoro is unsettled by Lawrence's patch to have MythDownloadManager take a variable user agent **
[17:30:35] iamlindoro: Odds that that's for something not-nefarious?
[17:33:17] kormoc: One in a million
[17:36:37] skd5aner: what if a service artificially only returns based on a particular user agent(s), but in reality, it makes no technical difference and it doesn't violate their TOS?
[17:36:41] skd5aner: would that still be nefarious?
[17:37:46] skd5aner: not sure what Lawrece's intentions are – but I know plenty of examples where user agents can make a big difference
[17:40:38] Captain_Murdoch: iamlindoro, that's probably so he can use it to help bypass the TOS for BBC's iPlayer since he mentioned doing that by using out-of-country proxies in one of his previous emails.
[17:41:24] Captain_Murdoch: like his new proxy env var that he wants for 'performance' reasons.
[17:41:58] Captain_Murdoch: we just let him slide on his comments about that, knowing that there isn't any way we'd put it in git.
[17:41:59] ** clever shakes his head **
[17:43:37] sphery: danielk22: I've set my mysql wait_timeout and interactive_timeout to 120 (seconds) on my mysqld, and it seems to be doing the right thing--our code never even notices the reconnect. Patch is at http://pastebin.com/hM56LgFw
[17:44:12] sphery: there is about 1/2 second of latency when it reconnects, but otherwise seems to be transparent
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[17:47:23] wagnerrp: skd5aner: thats the whole point, they are filtering on user agents because they only want certain user agents to access the content
[17:47:43] wagnerrp: such as... apple filtering for only quicktime user agents for downloading trailers
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[17:49:30] sphery: Seems you guys just don't get the concepts behind FOSS... freely and often stealing stuff
[17:50:46] sphery: danielk22: oops, actually the latency is my X forwarding + big images--not the mysql reconnect
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[17:54:35] skd5aner: yea, but there was a day not so long ago where even government sites would filter if you didn't use IE5/6... it wasn't necessarily nefarious to mimic an IE user agent in another browser for that, but I get your point... especially in cases of serving up media content
[17:59:16] wagnerrp: for a browser, i might see a point
[17:59:32] wagnerrp: for a download manager, there should be no reason for that to be filtered, except for intentional access control
[17:59:34] paul-h: the BBC tech guys have said publicly they have no problem with us updating our mheg engine to get access to the iPlayer stuff
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[18:03:39] Captain_Murdoch: paul-h, the tech guys didn't write the legal contracts with media sources or the TOS though.
[18:04:54] Captain_Murdoch: mheg engine updates for UK users are one thing. accessing iPlayer from Spain/France/Italy/The-U.S./etc. is a totally separate issue.
[18:08:12] paul-h: I assume they block users from outside the UK like they do the web version
[18:10:05] Captain_Murdoch: that's what we're referring to actually. that there are people outside the UK using paid proxies within the UK to bypass that block. and the patch to allow setting the user agent in MythDownloadManager is from the same source as the patch to allow using one of those proxies to bypass the block.
[18:10:59] paul-h: Maybe we should ask what Lawrence wants it for before jumping to conclusions?
[18:12:18] Beirdo: no, he stated pretty clearly that it was to bypass the BBC's UK restrictions
[18:12:45] Beirdo: as a reason to allow a separate proxy
[18:13:37] sphery: FWIW, here's the post in question: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/486560#486560
[18:17:26] paul-h: Ah you're talking about the proxy stuff I was asking about he user agent patch
[18:18:26] Mousey: and buildbot, does it need both?
[18:18:31] Mousey: ...oops
[18:18:35] Mousey: +/msg Beirdo
[18:19:10] Beirdo: hahah
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[18:33:08] ** xris twiddles thumbs waiting for WinTV-DCR-2650 shipment notification (yes, I know I'll be waiting awhile) **
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[18:50:39] sphery: So, I think I'm going to push the mysql reconnect patch. I'm pretty sure it won't cause any problems, and if we find some we can always revert it, or we may just find that it helps with the deadlock issues
[18:51:42] stuartm: paul-h: that's reassuring news about the BBC's tacit OK on the mheg stuff, I couldn't see how they could possibly object but at least we know that they won't
[18:57:13] stuartm: iamlindoro, Captain_Murdoch: again, like the proxy stuff we can just remove it prior to committing, Lawrence has made it clear where he stands and I think we've been very clear in the past that we won't aide users in breaking TOS or copyright laws so there is nothing to be gained by restarting the argument and the possibility that Lawrence would decide to withdraw his contribution entirely
[18:58:27] iamlindoro: stuartm: yes, I agree
[19:00:21] kormoc: skd5aner, I don't know of a single service that restricts based on user agents that don't have a TOS that goes along with it. Can you cite an example?
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[19:05:08] Mousey: oops
[19:08:47] wagnerrp: kormoc: various old internet applications designed for the specific javascript implementation in IE5/6
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[19:09:10] wagnerrp: rather than have different code for different browsers
[19:09:20] wagnerrp: or at least let the other browsers attempt to run the application
[19:09:26] wagnerrp: they outright block them
[19:17:30] stuartm: actually lots of sites block browsers which their services haven't been officially tested/validated against – bank websites are the most common offenders, but using opera I quite often see the issue with others
[19:19:12] stuartm: luckily opera has the option to 'Masquerade as IE' or 'Masquerade as Firefox' which gets past the "Your browser is not supported" screen and then amazingly works flawlessly
[19:20:47] stuartm: of course there's also the "Your operating system is not supported" screen, which is as baffling as it is stupid, yet some sites still refuse to let you use linux ...
[19:25:04] Captain_Murdoch: stuartm, yeah, I claimed the ticket with the plan of applying patch parts 1 & 3 in separate commits and leaving #2 out "until we need that functionality" without further comment. I had a comment 30–40 minutes ago typed stating so, but never hit ENTER I guess. :|
[19:26:33] Captain_Murdoch: I have to use the user agent switcher in firefox every time I access my credit union's website since they only allow IE, although it's worked fine in FireFox from the first day I tried it eons ago.
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[19:34:24] danielk22: kormoc: For a ludicrously long time a bank of mine required Netscape 4, and wouldn't accept Firefox as a web browser. It was either Republic or HSBC. I occasionally run into the "Your operating system is not supported" wall as well.
[19:36:32] danielk22: kormoc: With user agent switching those sites aren't as annoying as the flash only websites (My wife's employer has one of those. Impossible to deal with when I wanted to look up their address last week on my phone; even though the phone does support flash.)
[19:41:13] kormoc: danielk22, and their TOS didn't say access was limited to supported browsers?
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[19:42:16] sphery: then again, banks aren't content providers streaming other people's copyrighted content, so a bit different
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[19:53:19] danielk22: kormoc: Seriously? I've never seen such a legal notice: http://www.hsbc.com/1/2/terms-and-conditions Generally when user agent switching is only necessary when some unprofessional hack wrote the website...
[19:54:30] kormoc: danielk22, I've seen it. My old back had that in there so that if the browser screwed up, it wasn't their fault (posting multiple times/etc)
[19:54:31] danielk22: There are a lot of websites that look bad, like nyt.com, but the ones that do user agent sniffing and don't present anything aren't the type where management even thought about the existence of different browsers.
[19:55:23] danielk22: kormoc: Heh, I could see that for IE6 maybe, but I never have :)
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[19:59:03] danielk22: I am still surprised by some of the stuff out there, like the flash only websites, but it's usually in the dark corners of the net, with banks being the notable exception to the dark corner thing... Until recently, Citibank allowed you to see any other cardholder's statement by typing in their CC number so maybe they are still in the dark corners..
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[20:15:12] Beirdo: MythBuild: force build master-linux-ppc now
[20:15:13] MythBuild: build #689 forced
[20:15:13] MythBuild: I'll give a shout when the build finishes
[20:21:07] wagnerrp: Captain_Murdoch: a bit of a request for next time you start working on the theme chooser again
[20:21:21] wagnerrp: have it run at frontend startup, to ensure the selected theme is actually available
[20:22:33] wagnerrp: the way i have my frontends set up, they get cloned off a shared image, and then a handful of config files are overlayed on top
[20:22:50] wagnerrp: whenever i refresh my frontends, my ~/.mythtv directory gets flushed out, and the theme is lost
[20:23:06] wagnerrp: so the frontends fall back to terra
[20:24:41] wagnerrp: i imagine the same thing would happen if one were to clear out their theme cache
[20:29:20] skd5aner: kormoc: all of the examples above were the kind I was thinking about/referring to... I know this still happens frequently today, especially in the mobile world to... but it may be a different story for service based solutions versus browser based ones.
[20:29:46] MythBuild: build #689 of master-linux-ppc is complete: Failure [failed compile core] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . c/builds/689
[20:30:20] skd5aner: But I wouldn't be totally surprised if there aren't some examples of services out there that were created and tested against a single solution and therefore they only whitelist ones they want to support for that reason – not necessarily because other options are nefarrious – but I think that's when you have to defer to the TOS
[20:31:29] Captain_Murdoch: wagnerrp, doesn't the current code fall back to Terra if your selected theme does not exist? Are you saying automatically download the selected theme if it does not exist or just run the theme chooser if the selected theme does not exist?
[20:31:53] wagnerrp: Captain_Murdoch: im saying, if the selected theme doesnt exist, check if its available for download
[20:32:29] wagnerrp: skd5aner: in such a case where they were limiting support for quality control and not content control
[20:32:47] skd5aner: wagnerrp: yes, exactly... thank you for summing it up :)
[20:32:51] wagnerrp: i think the proper solution would be to contact them and try to get mythdownloadmanager added as an allowed user agent
[20:34:25] skd5aner: I would highly doubt that would work in any major case... large corps tend to ignore little players
[20:34:27] wagnerrp: Captain_Murdoch: not a major issue, or even a minor issue
[20:34:37] wagnerrp: just a slight annoyance whenever i update my frontends
[20:36:50] skd5aner: anyway – I think you guys are right anyway – there are probably more wrong reasons to support agent changing than right ones, but there are cases where it could make sense. I was just playing devil's advocate in a few fringe cases I'd seen the past
[20:39:20] Beirdo: yay. failed.
[20:40:00] Beirdo: ignore the PPC for the moment. We are trying to move it to a G5, and it's tossing an error
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[20:41:05] iamlindoro: fly like a G5
[20:42:38] wagnerrp: now i cant get the image of a jewish gangsta tom cruise out of my head
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[22:16:47] Beirdo: MythBuild: force build master-linux-ppc now
[22:16:47] MythBuild: build #692 forced
[22:16:47] MythBuild: I'll give a shout when the build finishes
[22:16:52] Beirdo: I think I got it finally
[22:17:30] Beirdo: the OS is saying it's ppc64, when in fact it's running 32bit userland.
[22:17:33] MythBuild: Hey! build master-linux-ppc #692 is complete: Failure [failed compile core]
[22:17:33] MythBuild: Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . c/builds/692
[22:17:42] Beirdo: so override to --arch=ppc
[22:18:28] Beirdo: what?!
[22:18:35] Mousey: >_<
[22:19:06] iamlindoro: Someone set it up the bomb
[22:19:08] stuartm: Beirdo: take it offline for now?
[22:19:15] Beirdo: I swear, I'm gonna slap it silly
[22:19:19] Beirdo: stuartm: why?
[22:19:45] Beirdo: it's gotta get fixed sometime
[22:20:21] stuartm: Beirdo: right, but fixing it doesn't have to be done while it's operating as a build slave?
[22:20:33] stuartm: fwiw, it wasn't out of memory was it?
[22:20:46] Beirdo: no, this is a new slave
[22:20:50] stuartm: "ccache: FATAL: x_calloc: Could not allocate 4 bytes"
[22:20:59] Beirdo: and definitely not outta memory
[22:21:10] Beirdo: 4G of RAM in there, it hasn't even touched swap
[22:21:29] Beirdo: maybe I should wipe ccache
[22:22:02] wagnerrp: its new? clearly you need to whip it more
[22:22:08] iamlindoro: When they called the G5 a 64 bit machine, I didn't figure they mean "of RAM"
[22:22:11] Beirdo: there. ccache actually tossed the error, maybe it was confusled
[22:22:24] Beirdo: debian's userland is 32bit for it
[22:22:35] iamlindoro: Beirdo: Was just playing :)
[22:22:47] Beirdo: http://avcodec.org/trac/ffmpeg/ticket/56
[22:22:50] Beirdo: BTW ;)
[22:22:59] Beirdo: looks oddly familiar :)
[22:23:26] Beirdo: win 27
[22:23:29] Beirdo: argh
[22:26:04] Beirdo: yeah, I think ccache got fubared by me switching architectures between builds and needed flushing
[22:26:15] Beirdo: it's past that file now
[22:34:04] Beirdo: and it's past the ppc assembly
[22:34:05] Beirdo: YAY
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[22:49:59] stuartm: no more emails?
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[23:03:15] Beirdo: it's on libmythtv now
[23:03:19] Beirdo: I think we're good
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[23:11:10] Mousey: =(
[23:11:53] ** Mousey nm's **
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[23:20:14] Beirdo: stuartm: you are gonna love the warnings from the PPC slave :)
[23:20:35] Beirdo: gcc 4.6.1, it's a lot more picky, and has found a couple crash bugs already
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[23:57:40] _klk_: hi all. i've been using/testing mythcommflag (latest sources) to mark regions of commercials on video i've captured from my pc capture card. it seems 90+% accurate at identifying the commercial regions. i was wondering, is there a way to tell it to mark individual commercials?

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