| Saturday, June 4th, 2011, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:18] | danielk22: | taylorr: so with normal logging no "-v" it works fine? |
| [00:00:23] | taylorr: | it's probably a great video to use for testing ringbuffer performance |
| [00:01:24] | taylorr: | danielk22: basically if I don't provide a --logfile it's fine |
| [00:01:43] | taylorr: | having -v seems to be fine it's writing to the logfile that seems to cause the enormous delays |
| [00:01:57] | taylorr: | however, when I set the logfile to an ext3 partition it works great |
| [00:01:59] | taylorr: | go figure |
| [00:02:28] | danielk22: | If it doesnt' work right with ext4 + normal logging we still need to do something.. if it is only a problem with extra logging like -v file then it's not really any issue. |
| [00:03:16] | taylorr: | normal logging is fine |
| [00:03:29] | taylorr: | it's things like -v file that really slow things down |
| [00:03:54] | taylorr: | I was running -v file,network,extra and that make MythVideo take about 10 secs to initially load |
| [00:04:03] | taylorr: | it's less than one if I have normal logging |
| [00:04:43] | danielk22: | heh, ok while i don't think that's a problem we need to solve does anyone here have an idea why ext4 would behave this way? |
| [00:06:02] | taylorr: | I should also mention that this computer had it's NIC interface blown up by a lightening strike |
| [00:06:04] | taylorr: | :) |
| [00:07:12] | Beirdo: | Well, I'll test with your changes tonight, with that BSG clip. |
| [00:07:33] | taylorr: | Beirdo: can you post the BSG clip on a faster link than mine? |
| [00:07:39] | taylorr: | I only have 768k uplink speed |
| [00:07:44] | Beirdo: | last night, I had to go to 8MB buffer or it would get whacked, but with it at 3/4 rather than 1/4... |
| [00:08:18] | Beirdo: | sure. not going to leave it there forever, but I'll plunk it on my linode or something |
| [00:08:36] | taylorr: | at least on my ION the BSG clip uses almost 8MB of a 16MB readahead buffer during a cluster read |
| [00:08:54] | Beirdo: | it is very bursty in nature, which is pretty difficult to deal with |
| [00:09:20] | taylorr: | yes, I will read 30MB+ in one cluster read |
| [00:09:31] | taylorr: | s/I/it/ |
| [00:09:33] | Beirdo: | not sure if that's mkv in general, and just that one in particular is it has such a range of bitrates, or what the story is |
| [00:09:51] | taylorr: | it's something to do with ffmpeg doing the muxing to matroska |
| [00:10:00] | taylorr: | the other matroska muxers don't produce such files |
| [00:10:15] | taylorr: | Beirdo: just let Daniel know when the clip is ready |
| [00:10:17] | taylorr: | thanks |
| [00:10:22] | Beirdo: | yeah, no problemo :) |
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| [00:11:49] | Beirdo: | OK, starting the transfer now. |
| [00:12:49] | Beirdo: | I don't see the harm in increasing the buffer size in general though. As long as playback will start early enough, and the pause/unpause is timely, and seeks are timely, where's the harm? |
| [00:13:48] | Beirdo: | while this transfers, I'm gonna head home too. |
| [00:17:25] | danielk22: | Beirdo: It just means an increase in resident memory usage. On the frontend, it may even pay off in less need for need for buffering uncompressed video frames in ffmpeg or vdpau, but on the backend it's might mean less buffering done in the OS since we'd be growing the size mythbackend active set. |
| [00:18:42] | stuartm: | cue inevitable complaints that mythtv is a becoming bloated or 'leaking' memory |
| [00:18:46] | danielk22: | hehe |
| [00:20:24] | danielk22: | This would grow the resident size not just the virtual size :) Still if there is evidence that it is beneficial, it's a pretty quick and easy fix... |
| [00:27:06] | taylorr: | as long as "Michael Jackson – This is it" plays back smoothly I don't care about anything else |
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| [00:41:50] | markk: | danielk22: thanks for the patch – makes sense – and I was wondering why some of those bitrates looked a little low:) |
| [00:42:25] | markk: | fwiw – I don't think the buffer size needs to be increased on the backend – only really needed for remote frontends, which is a simple enough test. |
| [00:44:49] | danielk22: | markk: Only if the file is "http://" or "myth://" backed? That makes sense to me, those would be the cases where the OS isn't helping us out with it's own buffering. |
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| [00:45:51] | markk: | danielk22: doesn't even need it for http:// – the ffmpeg code we use for http streaming is doing some extra buffering already. |
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| [01:45:23] | taylorr: | markk: just got to check out the new OSD statistics – very nice! |
| [01:48:22] | markk: | bring them up during those two matroska clips – very entertaining! (in a geeky kind of way) |
| [01:49:08] | Beirdo: | hehe, I plan to |
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| [01:50:08] | markk: | taylorr: any idea whether we can query ffmpeg to find out if the underlying encoding is variable bitrate? I can't see anything. |
| [01:51:06] | markk: | Beirdo: i've been playing with some of my existing recordings, it's amazing how marginal playback is with some stuff. |
| [01:51:21] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [01:51:56] | Beirdo: | we've been living on the hairy edge for a while, I guess |
| [01:52:22] | taylorr: | markk: no idea |
| [01:54:02] | taylorr: | markk: mediainfo doesn't even get that type of info – why do you need it? |
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| [01:55:20] | markk: | danielk22: I didn't commit the rest of your bitrate fixes as it gives some very strange results for low bitrate material and material with intermittent reads. not sure what the best solution is – but the bitrate is definitely under-reported but I can't see why. |
| [01:57:04] | markk: | taylorr: mediainfo does flag some stuff as variable frame rate (like your clip) – could have sworn it reported variable bit rate as well.... |
| [01:57:32] | Beirdo: | hehe, I ca't read the debug OSD. stupid glare :) |
| [01:58:52] | Beirdo: | I'll have to wait until the sun goes down... not that I'm really complaining, not sunny that often in Seattle |
| [02:02:05] | Beirdo: | markk: the Decoder read speed in the logs is bps, rihgt? |
| [02:02:32] | taylorr: | markk: no idea why Cars is variable frame rate because it's not |
| [02:11:16] | markk: | taylorr: with the 'cluster reads' for cars/galactica – is that a feature of matroska or is it h.264 related? (or both) |
| [02:12:45] | Beirdo: | markk: let me try an HDPVR recording, bur I'm pretty sure that's mkv |
| [02:13:50] | taylorr: | markk: it seems to be related to matroska and the libmkv muxer library |
| [02:13:55] | Beirdo: | not doing that on an HDPVR recording |
| [02:14:54] | taylorr: | I've never seen this type of behaviour on non-matroska and only on matroska muxed with libmkv (which I believe is the ffmpeg library) |
| [02:17:18] | Beirdo: | it's insane |
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| [02:21:46] | Beirdo: | it's fun watching the logging getting progressively more and more behind when I do playback with -v file on |
| [02:23:36] | Beirdo: | and wow does the bitrate ever move around |
| [02:24:13] | markk: | yeah – I've noticed that – the -v file logging really impacts performance |
| [02:25:35] | Beirdo: | well, I'm using new-logging, which queues it and logs it asynchronously, so it will catch up eventually once playback stops |
| [02:25:45] | Beirdo: | it's spwewing quite hard though |
| [02:27:10] | taylorr: | finally someone confirms that -v file slows down performance! :) |
| [02:27:41] | Beirdo: | it sure does |
| [02:27:58] | Beirdo: | I'm a minute and a half behind on logging here right now |
| [02:28:22] | Beirdo: | of course, the new bitrate logging is spewing pretty hard, but it's oh so useful |
| [02:38:39] | danielk22: | -v file,extra does a lot of extra checksumming on all the buffers to make sure we're not losing any data (we were when I started looking at the ringbuffer code.) I wouldn't think -v file alone would be that bad. |
| [02:39:38] | Beirdo: | well, it is with the bitrate spew, but that can get changed to file,extra over time, I guess |
| [02:39:48] | danielk22: | markk: Yeah, I noticed the bitrate still looked low on one file and also more bursty than I would expect. |
| [02:39:56] | Beirdo: | hmm, unless I have extra on too |
| [02:42:02] | Beirdo: | almost done on the upload of BSG clip |
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| [02:44:15] | Beirdo: | nah, just system,file |
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| [03:54:17] | Beirdo: | hmm, OK, I have the files, but danielk's gone. |
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| [10:58:58] | stuartm: | taylorr: fwiw it's long been known that various -v options are performance killers, it might just be that not everyone here was really aware of how bad it could be |
| [10:59:33] | stuartm: | for a period I disabled logging altogether because of the small delays it caused, not just in playback but the UI in general |
| [11:01:36] | stuartm: | it's a good reason to review existing logging and weed out the stuff that serves little purpose any more, or which is too noisy |
| [11:03:11] | stuartm: | Beirdo: does the new logging aggregate repeated errors and show them just the once with a count? |
| [11:03:29] | stuartm: | e.g. "Repeated 250 times" |
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| [14:11:14] | sphery: | stuartm: pretty sure it doesn't do that. I think the problem with that is that few errors are repeated exactly multiple times. Most of our errors have data or appear in groups of 3 repeating or ... Makes it much harder to count. However, on the bright side, new-logging changes our logging so that all logging uses the same verbose macro (so we remove the DB logging API) and you specify a logger to use--either stdout/err, file, database, or ... |
| [14:11:20] | sphery: | ... syslog. And, TTBOMK, some syslog implementations have the "last message repeated X times" functionality built in. |
| [14:12:12] | sphery: | (oh, and you can use multiple loggers, too, so "any of" rather than "either") |
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| [14:32:15] | sphery: | and, FWIW, I should mention that a user came up with a patch for counting (see http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8367#comment:3 for description and http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6729 for patch's current home). If you update it and run with it, I think you'll find--especially at high verbosity--it's not very useful at all. Only really helps when we're logging a very small range of messages. |
| [14:33:44] | sphery: | (i.e. it "fixes" logging when logging isn't a problem and doesn't help when there is a problem) Then again, you could just switch to new-logging (and DB update for new-logging is in master, already, so you can safely switch back and forth) and then try the syslog logger and see if you can configure your implementation to do a similar message repeated thing and see how it works. |
| [14:36:52] | taylorr: | stuartm: yes the UI slowness is actually the most evident slowdown – weird that pointing the log to an ext3 instead of ext4 (same hard drive) improved the situation a ton – you still perceive a little slowness but with ext4 it was taking almost 10 secs to bring up MythVideo |
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| [14:42:35] | sphery: | taylorr: also, for short testing runs, you can always point the log to a ramdisk |
| [14:44:02] | taylorr: | good idea – but for now (probably forever) I'm done looking at why logging is so bad :) |
| [14:44:40] | sphery: | heh, well I meant more so that you could log at whatever level you needed without disk/file system performance impacting the test run |
| [14:45:10] | sphery: | (well, file system performance can be avoided because it's easy to switch file systems on a ramdisk) |
| [14:47:01] | sphery: | I really think new-logging will make minimize issues from excessive logging since it writes messages asynchronously. Just need to convince Beirdo that it's time to merge it to master. :) |
| [14:47:51] | jpabq: | taylorr, does turning off barriers help with ext4? |
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| [16:59:59] | stuartm: | sphery: well I'm not going to suggest that Beirdo does something he wasn't planning to do, but counting ought to be pretty simple and it only needs to be done for the disk log which I believe we're already delaying (writing in bursts) in the new-logging branch |
| [17:01:00] | stuartm: | yeah, and there's a patch :) |
| [17:02:52] | stuartm: | on a related subject I'd like to see the scheduling notices move to another verbose level, those are the ones which swap my logs because with EIT we perfom a reschedule every 5 minutes excluding those forced by other events such as schedule changes |
| [17:03:24] | stuartm: | I'm not sure that the information they contain is really necessary to have in 'general' |
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| [17:05:07] | stuartm: | http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/2074662 |
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| [17:31:27] | sphery: | stuartm: yeah, I'm just saying it's useless... "[h264 @ 0x7fa3038b7820]number of reference frames exceeds max (probably corrupt input), discarding one" is different from "[h264 @ 0x7fa3038bA920]number of reference frames exceeds max (probably corrupt input), discarding one" because of the changing location/data. Most of our messages are the same in that they don't actually repeat because of changing values or they come in groups (where you ... |
| [17:31:33] | sphery: | ... get mesg1, mesg2, mesg3, mesg1, mesg2, mesg3 or whatever). |
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| [18:12:33] | stuartm: | sphery: well those are av* errors which we don't really have much control over, I felt that grouping like errors would be useful but if no-one agrees then I'll say no more |
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| [18:20:09] | sphery: | well, in my experiments with the patch that was there, it seemed useless, but if others feel it's useful, I won't argue :) |
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| [18:50:17] | Beirdo: | stuartm: I can look at making it aggregate, but I'm not sure it will hit as often as we'd like |
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| [20:42:46] | stuartm: | paul-h: does any of your mythmusic work include audioscrobbler support? I was thinking of working in it |
| [20:42:55] | stuartm: | s/in/on/ |
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| [22:48:44] | paul-h: | stuartm: not something I'm interested in at all. Wouldn't we need multi-user support in Myth to use that stuff properly anyway |
| [22:51:49] | stuartm: | paul-h: it would work a lot better with multi-user support, but it would still be useful to some even without that |
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| [22:53:51] | stuartm: | right now I'm just thinking about implementing it as an external script which along with many others could be triggered by system events etc, that gets around a pretty nasty restriction of the API which requires a secret application key – since we can't keep that key secret we'd basically need every user to obtain their own keys :( |
| [22:56:14] | stuartm: | I'm only interested in it because I use last.fm for discovering new music occasionally and I seem to remember a lot of people have asked for this feature in the past |
| [23:03:13] | stuartm: | I didn't run into the secret key issue until researching it just now, it's lessened my enthusiasm a fair bit as we couldn't really hope to provide an easy setup, I'm not sure whether it's worth the effort to make it something official vs a private project |
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