MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

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Friday, March 25th, 2011, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:13] dblain: Not sure it's place long term, but I'd at least would like to keep things consistent from a implenentation stand point.
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[00:00:21] Captain_Murdoch: on my drive home tonight, I was contemplating totally changing it over so it has to be used inside another page. I can't see supporting any non-javascript, non-graphical browser. users should be able (aka required) to use a modern browser to configure MythTV.
[00:01:03] Captain_Murdoch: knightr, we can load those if necessary
[00:01:13] dblain: The only thing I can think of that people might complain about is how easily it would be usable on a cell phone or tablet.
[00:01:58] jpabq: danielk22, my mythbackend locked up again. Unfortunately I was not able to regain control in gdb either — gdb was also effectively locked up. Any ideas on tracking down the cause of the deadlock, other than code inspection?
[00:03:47] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, if you do that expect to have a patch for the status page (to make it translatable) in the following days... :)
[00:03:49] Captain_Murdoch: dblain, so are you saying something like <%= os.tr("Host") %>
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[00:04:07] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, done by me...
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[00:04:52] Captain_Murdoch: knightr, we've talked about redoing that page, we could take advantage of the new .qsp functionality possibly. so having a translatable version of that would be nice.
[00:04:54] knightr: the question as to why this page wasn't translatable came up a few times...
[00:05:38] knightr: what's a qsp? a mix of Qt with asp/jsp or something like that?
[00:05:53] Captain_Murdoch: knightr, currently it wouldn't be translatable because it's not a normal html page, it's format and text are hard-coded in the backend. up until a few days ago, even the CSS was hardcoded in C++
[00:06:33] Captain_Murdoch: knightr, read the commit logs. :) dblain just put in server-side scripting for the mythbackend webserver. .qsp is the extension of a file that includes server-side scripting.
[00:06:46] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, yep, I know I've looked at it... I could have added the calls but I though not loading the translation files in the backend was a design decision...
[00:07:53] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, sorry have been quite busy at work... We're adding a very big client on our B2B system and we haven't finished implementing the new features they want... :(
[00:08:02] Captain_Murdoch: we want most things like logs to be untranslated, otherwise it's very very hard for us english-only devs to debug using a user's logs. but I don't see any reason things like the backend webserver can't use translations.
[00:08:08] knightr: so I guess I didn't see that commit log...
[00:08:16] Captain_Murdoch: just came though in the past 4–6 hours.
[00:08:41] knightr: Ah OK, I haven't finished looking through these yet...
[00:09:10] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, I though that only the clients were supposed to support translation, not the backend...
[00:09:34] knightr: (erroneously...)
[00:09:36] Captain_Murdoch: up until now, the status webpage was the only thing on the backend that warranted translation.
[00:09:47] Captain_Murdoch: because we want logs in english.
[00:09:50] knightr: yep, you're right...
[00:10:38] Captain_Murdoch: I haven't checked, but there shouldn't be any tr()'s inside programs/mythbackend/*.cpp currently. if so,we'd want to remove those before enabling translations in the backend.
[00:11:12] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, so do I... :) :) Even though my mother tongue is not English my dev environment at work is setup in English so that I can actually make some sense of the error message I get (and actually find something about them in google... :) )
[00:11:37] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, as far as I remember they are in libs used by the backend...
[00:11:57] Captain_Murdoch: but those libs shouldn't be printing logs using tr().
[00:12:55] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, they are not used for logs, my guess is it's code shared by the backend and frontend but I'm going from memory, I haven't checked lately...
[00:13:51] Captain_Murdoch: I doubt we'd be affected by any of those. the only thing the backend does is log. we don't translate data sent over the wire. only place tr() is used should be UI code.
[00:14:42] Captain_Murdoch: heh, the status webpage does have some tr() calls in it. 6 places.
[00:15:07] knightr: :)
[00:15:54] Captain_Murdoch: those are the only tr() calls in programs/mythbackend/*.cpp
[00:17:41] dblain: Captain_Murdoch: Sorry, stepped away... yes something like this would work <%= os.tr("Host") %> (It might actually already work since 'os' is a QObject... would have to test)
[00:18:45] Captain_Murdoch: we'll have to enable translations in mythbackend for it to work. if the call didn't fail currently that would be a good indication though.
[00:19:23] knightr: what libs is mythbackend linked against?
[00:19:41] Captain_Murdoch: a bunch, most, maybe all.
[00:19:45] dblain: unfortuanately most of them :(
[00:20:09] dblain: Found out the hard way when I needed to get libmythui to compile in VS to link mythbackend.
[00:20:10] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, it's not failing because tr() just return the same string if no translation file is loaded...
[00:21:06] Captain_Murdoch: knightr, I haven't tested os.tr() yet, but that's my point yes. if it doesn't fail outright, then that would mean we're alrady hooked up and just need to enable translations in the backend.
[00:21:18] knightr: (we used to have some of the smaller programs which were full of tr() but had no translation file loaded and except for the fact that it was not translated everything was A-OK)
[00:21:40] dblain: the hard part of translating the html, is all the static text. do we really want to have all that wrapped in tr(). Have you thought of a templating system that we might use for language/device specialization?
[00:21:43] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, yep it would probably work..
[00:22:57] dblain: then again, setup pages should be mostly about labels and input.
[00:23:16] Captain_Murdoch: yeah, was typing someting similar. :)
[00:23:40] dblain: Captain_Murdoch: BTW, it looks like I'd leave mythsettings alone and convert HttpConfig.
[00:23:47] dblain: Got the class names mixed up before.
[00:23:54] Captain_Murdoch: yeah, glossed over that myself. :)
[00:24:02] Captain_Murdoch: I knew what you meant.
[00:24:12] knightr: dblain, the actual strings in the html wouldn't need to have the tr(), only the strings extracted from it (to make it look like source code) would need it... (something like the ThemeUI::tr('THIS IS A TEST') themestring/themestringtool produces...)
[00:24:49] dblain: knightr: understood.
[00:25:22] knightr: (the file produced need to looks like source code so that lupdate thiink it is indeed source code and extracts the strings from them...)
[00:25:22] Captain_Murdoch: knightr, in the html, we'd take something like this: <tr><td>Host:</td> and code it like this: <tr><td><%= os.tr("Host") %>:</td>
[00:26:12] Captain_Murdoch: then we'd have a script that would pull out any 'os.tr("blah")' strings and dump them into a file like the themestring tool does.
[00:26:18] dblain: Captain_Murdoch: I don't like it.... maybe we should introduce a special element or attribute that I can replace when processing on the server.
[00:27:13] dblain: I could also offer a special url per page that would extract all the strings for you.
[00:27:31] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, yep. that would work... I would suggest using a different context than the themes though if possible (current one is ThemeUI and there's way many thing in QObject for my taste...)
[00:27:32] dblain: like: index.html.translate
[00:27:45] Captain_Murdoch: you don't like the <tr><td><%= os.tr("Host") %>:</td> part?
[00:27:50] knightr: s/thing/things
[00:28:00] dblain: Captain_Murdoch: Seems messy
[00:28:28] Captain_Murdoch: how would you know what to translate?
[00:28:45] Captain_Murdoch: some translatable strings might be inside javascript, some in pure html.
[00:28:53] dblain: <tr><td><translate>Host</translate></td>... or <tr><td translate='1'>Host</td>...
[00:29:14] dblain: When it's in javascript... the os.tr(...) would be fine.
[00:29:15] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, some strings might even need to be escaped to be in javascript too...
[00:29:39] dblain: Just throwing ideas out.
[00:29:57] knightr: (if they contain apostrophe (&apos;) for example...)
[00:30:09] Captain_Murdoch: yeah, I'm fine with anything. I'm just throwing things out also. just trying to make sure translations aren't an afterthought.
[00:30:39] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, Thanks you very much for that!!!
[00:32:40] Captain_Murdoch: dblain, not sure how much work the <% %> checking was, but how about a something simplerthan <translate>blah</translate> instead having someting that doesn't look like html/xml/etc. <&Host&> or something along that line.
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[00:33:39] dblain: that would work too. I just wanted to make sure html editors won't have a problem with it (ie: dream weaver, expressions web, ...)
[00:34:56] Captain_Murdoch: yeah, makes sense.
[00:35:27] dblain: just tried os.tr()... errored with "Not a function"
[00:36:10] dblain: BTW: right now it only shows error in the Verbose output. And the line number it spits out is my internal line number, not the real line number.
[00:36:53] Captain_Murdoch: well, we can give tr() some thought. whatever we come up with, it's only a 'few' characters += either way.
[00:36:59] dblain: I will take some time to impove that once we're sure everyone is okay with having server side script support.
[00:37:00] Captain_Murdoch: +-
[00:37:53] dblain: I still think tr() for the server side javascript code is fine. It's the client side java & static html that I'm not sure about.
[00:38:35] ** dblain plans on doing very little html coding, so he shouldn't have much of a say in how it's done. **
[00:38:57] Captain_Murdoch: :)
[00:42:23] dblain: The more I look at httpconfig... the more I think I'm going to leave it alone for now. It's not coded to return html fragments like I thought, but to build entire pages (the method name being the page).
[00:43:15] Captain_Murdoch: whatever solution we have, we may need to strip out things like embedded carriage returns and " + " concoctions joining strings in javascript like var myvar = "<translate>some long string" + " continuing on another line</translate>";
[00:44:19] dblain: wouldn't that just call the translate function with the fully concat string?
[00:44:47] dblain: granted, not the best performance in a scripted environment, but it should work fine.
[00:45:18] dblain: crlf might be an issue.
[00:45:24] Captain_Murdoch: well, if the webserver is replacing that string on the fly, it would have to scan the page looking for <translate>some stuff</translate> and strip out any embedded CRLF or " + " in the middle.
[00:45:46] Captain_Murdoch: thinking javascript or html here, not qsp.
[00:45:53] dblain: Actually, I cheated.
[00:47:59] dblain: It reads the html, line by line and builds javascript that basically calls os.write( "static text here" ) and leaves the text between <% %> alone. it then calls evalute to execute the script and returns it's result to the browser.
[00:48:19] Captain_Murdoch: I toyed with drawing those httpconfig pages in javascript, but stopped because I'd have to take the html off disk, retrieve the setting values, then reencode to xml or json to feed to the browser so it could draw the form.
[00:48:29] dblain: it stores the resulting pre-compiled javascript so it only has to parse it once.
[00:49:55] dblain: The concept of the httpconfig is fine, I'd just like to see the bulk of the html removed, and have it render only the controls and labels (and other supporting html/javascript).
[00:50:30] dblain: Then the main page (header, menu, footer,... ) would be in a html or qsp file.
[00:50:45] Captain_Murdoch: yeah, I am still looking at that. that's part of the thought behind getting rid of the ability to load /Config/General in a browser. just have that return something that's meant to be in a div on the main setup page.
[00:52:22] dblain: sounds good. I could see it as a set of functions that return just the html for a given control/group of controls. Then it could be call anywhere on the page (think about splitting up 1 xml file into tabs? Not sure if that makes sense)
[00:53:10] dblain: anyway, I need to spend time with my family. Let me know if you need a feature added, or if something doesn't seem to work correctly.
[00:53:11] Captain_Murdoch: the way I did the storage group editor is to have a storagegroups.html and storagegroups.js that get loaded when you go that page. I'd like to have real-time validation on fields as you go through the form, and that requires hooking up some javascript to the fields. currently when I load those /Config/* pages, I post-run some javascript to setup intercepts for the save buttons so I can keep the /Config/General 'page' wrapped i
[00:53:11] Captain_Murdoch: n my div.
[00:54:22] Captain_Murdoch: yeah, smaller groups would be best I think. don't want the users having to scroll too much. I'm thinking the wizard should fit on-screen without scrolling at all. was going to play with a simple draft design for something like that tonight.
[00:54:49] Captain_Murdoch: tabs are easy enough with jquery for /Config/* and/or the wizard.
[00:54:54] ** Captain_Murdoch has to run for a while as well. **
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[01:50:54] danielk22: jpabq: I think code review is the only way. Once you keep a thread running after taking away it's stack gdb won't be able to help you.
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[03:29:21] jya: with gdb... When stepping over the return function, how can you see the return value ?
[03:29:33] jya: like on stuff return function(arg);
[03:29:52] jya: without stepping in function (which itself does return blah(xxx);
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[08:57:26] danielk22: jya: Maybe there is an easier way but "finish" might be what you are looking for... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/267674/ins . . . ction-in-gdb
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[12:21:28] ke^: http://pastebin.com/xaJ7Vaug can anyone explain where is my problem now. I added second dvb-t card af9015 based usb card. After that problems started to appear.
[12:24:54] ke^: First the card did work and didnt work then i did figure out it would be my mythtv that is the problem. I removed my distro versio on mythtv package (arch linux) and compiled from latest svn fixed git. The problem didnt disappear and i had problems with mythtweb to get running. After that i fall back to distro package but now i wont seem to have even change to get it running. Cause mythbackend crashes immidiately after i start it in init. I tried to clean up everyt
[12:25:12] ** stuarta points to the topic **
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[12:26:04] ke^: sry :)
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[13:22:37] doc235: will this card Multimedia video controller: Conexant Systems, Inc. Hauppauge Inc. HDPVR-1250 model 1196 (rev 04) work with mythtv and if so , how do i tell it to use it please?
[13:39:12] justinh: doc235: you need #mythtv-users like the channel topic says
[13:39:31] doc235: oops, sorry, should have read
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[21:05:05] davide_: where is everyone today? i thought maybe something was wrong with the mailing lists since they've been dead silent for a while, but even irc is super quiet.
[21:08:33] danielk22: davide_: I haven't sent out any mails for a while so I don't know about em, but there was some activity in here in the last 24 hrs.
[21:12:31] davide_: danielk22: yeah, i saw there was some last night, but nothing since this morning. the same for the mailing lists. it's just unusual for everything to get this quiet.
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[23:29:14] Number6: Can anyone recommend a theme or hack that will allow me to browse a folder structure, like on Windows MCE?
[23:37:20] iamlindoro: wrong channel, see topic
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[23:39:48] foxbuntu: iamlindoro, \o
[23:42:24] Number6: My apologies, iamlindoro.
[23:42:47] iamlindoro: foxbuntu, hey there, were you looking for me?
[23:43:02] Number6: Out of interest, how are the themes displayed? As in, where are the files located and how are they generated (I'd imagine XML)
[23:43:14] iamlindoro: Number6, no apology needed, you'll just get more prompt answers in the right channel
[23:43:37] iamlindoro: We can answer that question in #mythtv-users too ;)
[23:44:58] foxbuntu: iamlindoro, nope, just a wave...been a long time since I poked my head in here
[23:45:00] Number6: \o/
[23:45:04] iamlindoro: foxbuntu, hola ;)
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