| Monday, March 14th, 2011, 00:00 UTC | ||
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| [02:14:34] | ** Captain_Murdoch is a bit perturbed by the misinformation concerning MythTV in the ffmpeg-devel email. ** | |
| [02:15:30] | Captain_Murdoch: | "the fate of MythTV". that's a laugh |
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| [02:29:54] | markk: | Captain_Murdoch: but what is our fate? not clear to me at the moment |
| [02:30:33] | Captain_Murdoch: | I think it's the "switching back to subversion" part. the whole thing is a bit condescending. |
| [02:50:57] | xris: | Captain_Murdoch: yeah, that's messed up. |
| [02:51:09] | xris: | although Beirdo really needs to get around to sending a status email on that |
| [02:51:16] | xris: | switching back is... extremely difficult. |
| [02:51:30] | ** Captain_Murdoch is almost done with his official response on the our list. ** | |
| [02:51:40] | Captain_Murdoch: | official meaning opinion. |
| [02:51:51] | Captain_Murdoch: | not a MythTV response. |
| [02:51:52] | xris: | cool |
| [02:52:02] | xris: | I haven't read the whole ffmpeg thing |
| [02:52:05] | Captain_Murdoch: | our meaning -developers, not '-dev. |
| [02:52:15] | xris: | figured |
| [02:54:18] | xris: | spent my day learning about python instead |
| [02:54:25] | Beirdo: | yeah, I've tried a couple methods already to try to sync our git changes back into svn. It's not going to be simple, if even possible, and then I keep getting distracted by other things. |
| [02:56:29] | wagnerrp: | hhsssssssssssssss |
| [02:56:41] | Captain_Murdoch: | <sarcasm>well, if we follow the ffmpeg model, we can just limit commit access to the people who love git</sarcasm> |
| [02:57:07] | Beirdo: | heh. |
| [02:57:14] | kormoc: | it's the easiest way to make sure that the project says pro-git not for technical reasons, but for political reasons! |
| [02:57:24] | Beirdo: | we *could*, but I doubt that'd be the most productive for us |
| [02:57:28] | Captain_Murdoch: | actually,that's not their model, their model is even more restricted. |
| [02:58:10] | wagnerrp: | yeah, their model actually requires independent review of each and every patch |
| [02:58:38] | Captain_Murdoch: | I"m just talking about the part where even people who know git don't commit. |
| [02:58:38] | Beirdo: | which has merit, but that's a lot of extra work for the people doing the review |
| [02:59:02] | Beirdo: | and again, wouldn't really work for us :) |
| [02:59:07] | Captain_Murdoch: | maybe with this model going forward they'll be able to keep the same command line options week to week. |
| [02:59:33] | Beirdo: | hehe, that could be |
| [03:01:50] | ** Captain_Murdoch stops taking jabs cause he's got better things to do. ** | |
| [03:01:51] | xris: | ffmpeg is following the kernel model. it works, but takes a huge amount of manpower |
| [03:03:07] | Captain_Murdoch: | yes, I agree totally. |
| [03:03:57] | xris: | and it certainly wouldn't work for us. |
| [03:04:05] | xris: | we'd never have enough time to review markk's work. :) |
| [03:04:05] | Captain_Murdoch: | ditto on that as well. |
| [03:04:25] | xris: | or knowhow for half of it. |
| [03:05:49] | wagnerrp: | xris: and we wouldnt have anyone to review the translation patches |
| [03:05:52] | Captain_Murdoch: | we'd need 2x the size of our group and people who want to review more than code. |
| [03:06:00] | xris: | yeah |
| [03:06:24] | xris: | I did figure out today why kormoc can't use git, though.. git hates him. seriously WTF type errors. |
| [03:06:43] | xris: | he must have pissed off Linus in a past life. |
| [03:07:56] | knightr: | wagnerrp, ??? |
| [03:08:16] | wagnerrp: | knightr: you speak dutch, english, maybe one or two other languages |
| [03:08:26] | wagnerrp: | but who would we get for... say... russian? |
| [03:08:41] | knightr: | wagnerrp, nope, only French and English... |
| [03:09:18] | xris: | knightr: don't you live in denmark? no danish? |
| [03:09:25] | knightr: | wagnerrp, when we review we don't check only the translation (though we try doing spot check) we check for other problems in the translation... |
| [03:09:42] | knightr: | wagnerrp, nope, I'm Canadian you're talking of Kenni... |
| [03:09:50] | wagnerrp: | oh, kenni, yeah |
| [03:11:07] | knightr: | and I'm not sure he speaks Dutch BTW (at least I hope for him (long story, I worked in an application with database fields and comments written in Dutch for many years...) |
| [03:11:45] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i realize you check the files for validity, but you wouldnt know if someone wrote the equivalent of 'fat monkey' or something else completely unrelated to the actual string |
| [03:11:58] | wagnerrp: | or do you feed stuff through google translate or something? |
| [03:12:31] | xris: | wagnerrp: it'd be Danish. we're both confused. :) |
| [03:13:16] | knightr: | wagnerrp, I did (google translate) I don't do it for the current translators though since they proved to do a good job as far as I could tell.. |
| [03:13:28] | wagnerrp: | ah, then i stand corrected |
| [03:14:05] | knightr: | wagnerrp, why did you mention that though, I'm trying to figure out where that comment came from (the one about translation patches...) |
| [03:14:08] | knightr: | ? |
| [03:14:25] | xris: | knightr: trying to do things like ffmpeg and validating every single commit |
| [03:14:29] | wagnerrp: | talking about the new ffmpeg model (and the existing kernel model) |
| [03:14:40] | wagnerrp: | where they only have a very small group of people with commit access |
| [03:14:50] | knightr: | ah ok... |
| [03:14:56] | wagnerrp: | all patches go through them for review |
| [03:15:05] | xris: | there are code review tools for git, too.. where things have to go through the tool to get into master. |
| [03:15:23] | wagnerrp: | anything we could tie into buildbot? |
| [03:15:39] | knightr: | I did read one of the threads about that recently so I understand what you are referring to... |
| [03:15:41] | wagnerrp: | make stuff go through a build cycle before it gets pushed? |
| [03:15:52] | Beirdo: | buildbot requires it to be pushed to be able to build |
| [03:16:28] | Beirdo: | I guess it could be convinced to do more, but I doubt it will be simple |
| [03:16:31] | Captain_Murdoch: | I don't think they require committers to review, reviewing can be done by non-committers. |
| [03:17:59] | knightr: | what is there to gain by doing that though? |
| [03:18:20] | xris: | knightr: theoretically better quality control |
| [03:18:44] | wagnerrp: | theres always at least one other person reading through a chunk of code |
| [03:19:16] | Captain_Murdoch: | if you have the reviewer resources and a willing group of people (or a coup), then it can work. |
| [03:19:42] | xris: | otherwise, just use a tool like reviewboard and know when to submit review requests for your stuff |
| [03:19:50] | Captain_Murdoch: | after it's that way then people sign on knowing what they're in for. |
| [03:26:43] | knightr: | xris, can we afford to slow down development by doing that though? some parts of MythTV could only be reviewed by senior devs who might not have time to review other people's code.. |
| [03:27:12] | xris: | knightr: that's sort of the point |
| [03:27:20] | xris: | something like reviewboard would be optional, though. |
| [03:27:59] | knightr: | wagnerrp, I'm pretty sure it's currently happening though... I frequently check other people's commit to understand what they did and I'm pretty sure I must not be alone in doing that... |
| [03:29:07] | knightr: | anyway in my case every bit of code I commit must be reviewed so that wouldn't change much (except for not being a committer anymore...) |
| [03:29:25] | Captain_Murdoch: | knightr, we have no intention of moving to that model. |
| [03:29:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | only reason it was mentioned was because that's what ffmpeg went to. |
| [03:30:02] | Beirdo: | it certainly has some merit, but really, not where we're at |
| [03:30:11] | wagnerrp: | and the recent mention of ffmpeg moving to that in the -developer list |
| [03:32:09] | knightr: | Captain_Murdoch, thanks, I wasn't sure if it was being considered or not as I hadn't had the chance to read the whole thread... what triggered my interest in it was when wagnerrp mentionned translations... |
| [03:32:37] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah, he was just reitterating that we don't have the resources for full reviews |
| [03:32:46] | wagnerrp: | yeah, my point was just that the review requires someone who 'understands the material' |
| [03:33:04] | wagnerrp: | and if we have translations for languages that no one in the dev team can read.... |
| [03:33:25] | knightr: | wagnerrp, just my my Spanish translation problem we were talking of recently... :) |
| [03:33:52] | knightr: | wagnerrp, the best we can do is some spot-checks... |
| [03:33:55] | wagnerrp: | exactly |
| [03:34:16] | knightr: | one of the only translation tools I saw could help there though... |
| [03:34:25] | knightr: | s/only/online |
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| [03:36:09] | knightr: | (It recommends translations which comes from other open sources apps... if something was way too different it could help spot translation "problems"... |
| [03:36:53] | knightr: | it stil has a few problems left with the Qt ts file format though (major one was fixes however...) |
| [03:37:00] | knightr: | s/fixes/fixed |
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| [05:22:28] | MythBuild: | build #711 of master-linux-64bit is complete: Failure [failed compile core] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . t/builds/711 blamelist: Mark Kendall <mkendall@mythtv.org > |
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| [05:40:07] | markk: | fyi – yes, I know the build is broken. it has exposed some underlying issues – just spending a few minutes getting a proper fix in. |
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| [14:05:11] | Unhelpful: | what's going to do that job, exactly? |
| [14:05:17] | Unhelpful: | urgh. :/ |
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| [14:47:00] | wagnerrp: | huh? |
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| [22:07:12] | xris: | dblain: ping |
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| [23:29:55] | skd5aner: | dblain: quick Q about mythxml – is the new framework API a replacement for MythXML, and if so is it more of a "MythXML v2" or something completely different? Also – will the "framework API" continue to be called MythXML, or something different? |
| [23:32:01] | dblain: | I see the framework API as a replacement to MythXML (if you noticed, MythXML.h/cpp don't exist in git any longer) |
| [23:33:21] | dblain: | It's more of a Web Service API. Currently there are 4 Services/API's exposed: content, dvr, guide & Myth |
| [23:33:57] | dblain: | They include the existing MythXML functions grouped into appropriate categories |
| [23:34:20] | dblain: | I would expect more methods to be added over time, and if appropriate, more Services/API classes added as well. |
| [23:34:56] | dblain: | The Old MythXML has been renamed to InternetContent and included only the methods needed for MythNetVison. |
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| [23:35:47] | dblain: | xris: still looking for me? |
| [23:36:43] | kormoc: | dblain, did you ever look into the GTV and UPnP PVR stuff? |
| [23:38:51] | skd5aner: | dblain: thanks – is there backwards compatibility for anyone using legacy MythXML? Also – you just referring to the "new stuff" as "MythTV's API framework" or is there some branded-type name to reference it by? |
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| [23:42:36] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: no, there is no intentional backwards compatibility with the old legacy interface |
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| [23:42:57] | wagnerrp: | many of the old commands can be used pretty easily, just changing to the new location |
| [23:43:13] | wagnerrp: | but the data formats they return are all different |
| [23:43:20] | wagnerrp: | and the code processing them needs to be rewritten |
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| [23:44:24] | dlblain: | some of the return data format is still in flux. i |
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| [23:47:20] | dlblain: | as for the google tv. doesnt look like it supports upnp other than in the video app for playback. |
| [23:48:40] | kormoc: | dlblain, that's what I suspected from my network captures. Thanks for confirming |
| [23:49:28] | dlblain: | i was hoping to find support. oh well. |
| [23:49:50] | kormoc: | Yeah. Did you send a thank you note yet? |
| [23:50:53] | kormoc: | I'm wondering if we should get consensus on what we're asking for first, but not sure if it's worth it |
| [23:51:13] | dlblain: | i have a draft, just havent sent it yet. i just got it working (kind of... comcast cable box wont work with it) |
| [23:51:51] | kormoc: | yeah, Dish is the only one currently |
| [23:52:15] | dlblain: | a offical mythtv thankyou may be better than many individual ones |
| [23:52:23] | kormoc: | Indeed |
| [23:52:48] | dlblain: | i know about dish... comcast box jgives hdcp error |
| [23:53:43] | dlblain: | very fustrating (man this keyboard on my phone is hard to type with :( |
| [23:54:24] | wagnerrp: | how many did you guys end up getting? |
| [23:54:28] | kormoc: | Yeah :( I had high hopes but the brick wall on the info is hard on the nose :( |
| [23:54:57] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, We got another 6 I believe? So the total number that myth devs have is 12? |
| [23:55:09] | kormoc: | or rather, myth folks, as a bunch of the SD folks aren't myth devs |
| [23:55:11] | wagnerrp: | heh, we have 12 active devs? |
| [23:55:26] | kormoc: | hrm |
| [23:56:02] | wagnerrp: | (i think there are actually 15 or 16 last count) |
| [23:56:03] | kormoc: | just two from the SD bunch, so 9? |
| [23:56:14] | dlblain: | im wondering if dish has an exclusive on tight integration. |
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| [23:56:23] | kormoc: | dlblain, I'm wondering the same |
| [23:57:04] | kormoc: | dlblain, especially with their whole 'We can't confirm or deny dish integration' when it's public on dish's website |
| [23:57:20] | gregL (gregL!~greg@cpe-74-76-125-87.nycap.res.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
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