MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

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Monday, January 24th, 2011, 00:02 UTC
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[00:33:07] markk_: iamlindoro: is the setup wizard enabled yet?
[00:33:33] iamlindoro: markk_, No, though you can go to the theme chooser and upgrade to current Arclight, and then you just need to drop a menu item in to your menu theme
[00:34:01] iamlindoro: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/wTv8svND
[00:34:54] iamlindoro: I'd say it's pretty close to being usable now that I've got the sample downloading working, I'd just like to get the samples off my personal server before we go too far with it
[00:35:08] markk_: thanks – what samples are you using?
[00:35:55] iamlindoro: SD is 848x480 Big Buck Bunny in Profile L4.1 6 Mbit H.264, HD is 1920x1080 Sintel at 19 Mbit
[00:36:10] iamlindoro: ~35 seconds of each
[00:38:10] iamlindoro: I'd still like to add an optional step to clone settings from another frontend, but I figure if a new user can get through a simple setup where they can test each audio device to find one that works, test each playback profile to see which gives the best results, and start myth with known working playback of both, it'll be a modest improvement to the new user experience
[00:39:27] markk_: I was thinking it would be very cool to produce a test clip of our own. colour bars, patterns etc, square box for aspect ratio check, moving areas for interlacing and tearing checks, heartbeat synchronised to audio for audio sync.
[00:39:31] markk_: a lot of possibilities
[00:40:00] iamlindoro: I had wanted to/also want to offer test patterns, but it seemed sensible to separate those from actual testing of playback profiles
[00:40:27] iamlindoro: and please, feel free to tweak or add as you see fit
[00:40:37] iamlindoro: My only heartfelt request is that we keep it as dead simple as possible
[00:40:59] iamlindoro: I just want the ultimate result to be as hard as possible to mess up-- so fewer options++
[00:44:32] markk_: iamlindoro: sure, I understand. Chances of me looking doing anything on that in near future are pretty remote:) my one suggestion (esp. if you want simple as possible) would be to use mpeg2 for SD check, ensure both are progressive and both have frame rates below 50fps
[00:44:39] markk_: so 3 suggestions really:)
[00:45:04] iamlindoro: The latter true are already the case, the former would be simple enough
[00:45:07] iamlindoro: er latter two
[00:45:37] iamlindoro: Both are 24p
[00:46:57] markk_: cool – I'll take it for a spin shortly:)
[00:50:29] iamlindoro: Also note that it sort of dead-ends on the video test page-- since I had sort of intended to do more, I haven't bothered to put in a finish button yet
[00:50:36] iamlindoro: So you can esc out when you're done
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[01:01:26] markk_: heh – Arclight went from v1.1 to 25.2
[01:02:02] iamlindoro: I've adopted emacs versioning
[01:04:54] markk_: looking good so far – might want to remove some of the extra digits on the download update (15.9335 of 2...)
[01:05:23] iamlindoro: yeah
[01:13:53] iamlindoro: There isn't a whole lot there yet, but hopefully a decent start
[01:15:39] markk_: iamlindoro: pure genius – love it:)
[01:15:53] iamlindoro: hah, that might be overstating it, but thanks nonetheless :)
[01:17:49] markk_: seriously – the ability to switch the playback profile like that for testing is priceless
[01:18:20] iamlindoro: Yeah, I like it too-- there would be so much less guesswork if people could just try them each in turn
[01:18:45] iamlindoro: or rather, now there hopefully won't be ;)
[01:22:01] markk_: it's also a testament to how far the codebase has come. not a lot of code to get some pretty powerful UI/functionality
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[12:24:22] markk_: sphery: re latest comment on #8701 – I think using environment variables is a really bad idea. either we make it properly configurable or not at all :)
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[12:46:03] stuartm: environmental variables is a terrible idea
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[16:40:23] jya: markk_: regarding Phil's email in the distribution list, when he plays the file with mythavtest it seems to work.. It's not the first time people have had this issue. Not sure where the problem lays. If it's in the storage group or mythfrontend player..
[16:40:53] jya: I told one person to disable storage group and configure mythfrontend to use mythavtest as default player, and this has fixed their issue..
[16:40:55] jya: very weird
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[16:56:53] stuartm: iamlindoro: haven't compile tested or even proof read but this should give a good indication of the threaded usage of a progress dialog – http://mythtv.pastebin.com/eVbs05K7
[16:57:47] stuartm: as always there are many ways to do the same thing but that's probably the most direct example possible
[17:05:43] stuartm: were it to run you'd probably not see the progress dialog since the count would finish in a moment ;)
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[17:40:29] sphery: /tb
[17:43:53] sphery: markk_: Yeah, I completely agree that env vars are a bad approach. I was planning on revisiting that one, again, very soon (I'm just getting time to go back through my tickets). I was planning on making it properly configurable--and then seeing whether others can live with my approach.  :)
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[17:48:27] iamlindoro: Those of you with a relationship with Geoff Newbury should really have a word with him
[17:48:34] Captain_Murdoch: iamlindoro, for the purpose of your download, I think you could just postEvent() the ProgressUpdateEvents from your customEvent inside the "UPDATE" section. ie, you receive the UPDATE event from the download manager and you send an update to the progress dialog. when you get the finished event, you close the progress dialog. no need for the extra thread in this case.
[17:48:59] iamlindoro: Waving your JD around on the mailing list defending thieves is not acceptable, and I don't care who has a relationship with Schedules Direct
[17:50:14] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch: I think that's approximately what I'm doing? (Well, I don't use postevent, I just adjust the message/fill/etc.) If not, can you clarify for me what I should be doing differently?
[17:50:14] Captain_Murdoch: the whole thread has taken a downturnu
[17:50:24] Captain_Murdoch: stupid auto-raise. :)
[17:51:22] Captain_Murdoch: I haven't looked at your recent code, I was just commenting based on stuartm's example. he'd have to comment on whether what you're doing now is OK.
[17:51:49] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch: I *think* that what you suggest is what I've got going on, but I might not have it quite straight
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[19:02:44] stuartm: since the download stuff is already threaded the additional thread is unnecessary in this case
[19:03:07] stuartm: but still, the example would apply elsewhere so it wasn't a waste of time
[19:04:03] iamlindoro: stuartm: And thank you very much for the example regardless, I will undoubtedly be able to use it for the MythGame scan rewrite stuff
[19:04:19] iamlindoro: Sorry, should have thanked you a few hours ago-- crazy morning
[19:07:16] stuartm: nah, I wasn't expecting an immediate reply, I've been busy myself lately so I know how that goes
[19:10:22] sphery: kormoc (or xris): Is this correct for the new PHP bindings? I was going to update the comment so I don't forget in the future. Thanks. http://mythtv.pastebin.com/hY4Hht7i
[19:12:34] xris: shouldn't need the version number in mythweb itself
[19:12:59] xris: at least not in master. I moved all of the bindings files into mythtv/bindings/
[19:13:04] sphery: right, I removed the mythweb stuff--just added the php bindings part
[19:13:25] xris: oh, misread the diff. heh
[19:13:41] xris: dunno what's up with modules/tv/classes/Program.php — guess that one is still in mythweb
[19:13:44] sphery: this, particularly for the proto version/programinfo-layout stuff
[19:13:47] xris: will have to have kormoc verify that one
[19:14:29] sphery: ah, yeah... might still need layout for that one until transition is complete
[19:14:30] kormoc: modules/tv/classes/Program.php is the one we use, the MythProgram one is still incomplete
[19:15:03] xris: ah, then we'll need to leave that one in the instructions until we can move it over to the bindings directory
[19:15:05] sphery: ok, so update mythweb layout to mythweb/modules/tv/classes/Program.php , and add the php bindings section?
[19:16:14] kormoc: Sounds good to me
[19:16:37] sphery: thx--I figured I was missing something, so wanted to verify before I pushed it
[19:17:23] sphery: and, it looks like there's not yet a DB schema version check in PHP bindings (or MythWeb, for that matter), right?
[19:18:08] kormoc: for general schema? negative
[19:18:23] kormoc: we figured if we can talk to a BE of valid schema, it's all good
[19:19:11] sphery: ok... just a heads up, we'll probably need one once I start updating code to use http://code.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/TaskRecordedFile + http://code.mythtv.org/trac/attachment/wiki/T . . . e_schema.png (which will be modified a bit to remove all tv/movie metadata info and place it in a metadatacommon table that's shared by videofilemetadata and recorded)
[19:19:40] sphery: since it will be very different physical layout
[19:26:17] stuartm: any chance that someone kept a copy of the simple patch I produced for paul-h's buttontree refresh issue? pastebin.ca is down and git ate my changes
[19:26:30] iamlindoro: I may have it, let me look
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[19:26:42] iamlindoro: yes, I have it
[19:27:01] iamlindoro: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/bYBcc2ek
[19:27:01] kormoc: sphery, kk
[19:27:02] stuartm: it was only a two-liner but I don't remember the change exactly, I want to check where I went wrong in that version as I
[19:27:14] iamlindoro: oh, maybe it's different then
[19:27:20] iamlindoro: I thought this was it, but guess not if it was a two liner
[19:27:37] stuartm: iamlindoro: that's it, it was just bigger than I remembered
[19:27:44] iamlindoro: ok, cool
[19:27:56] stuartm: still only a couple of lines really changed, the rest was formatting
[19:29:51] stuartm: iamlindoro: thanks, that's helped me immensely
[19:29:55] iamlindoro: no problem
[19:30:48] xris: hmm, summer of code has started
[19:30:53] sphery: stuartm: Perhaps your browser still has it in cache? Set browser to work offline, then try to go to page?
[19:30:54] xris: or been announced
[19:31:11] stuartm: sphery: it won't, I keep a lean cache
[19:31:43] sphery: :( then guess when pastebin.ca is back :)
[19:31:53] iamlindoro: !trout sphery scrollback
[19:31:53] ** MythLogBot slaps sphery with a scrollback trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **
[19:32:05] stuartm: I've been staring at this for the hour or more trying to remember what solution I went with previously, that itself is frustrating since it should be the easiest problem to solve but I just can't get my brain into gear tonight
[19:32:21] sphery: oops, I didn't see him say that was it
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[19:36:51] elmojo: hmmm... the patches for #5911 to fix livetv program transitions look very interesting
[19:37:03] stuarta (stuarta!~stuarta@mythtv/developer/stuarta) has joined #mythtv
[19:37:25] iamlindoro: I like it when elmojo says patches look interesting, because it usually means they won't sit in the patch for another year ;)
[19:37:34] iamlindoro: er in the ticket
[19:38:19] elmojo: well, the patch seems like if *might* handle the issue that Daniel and Mark seem to observed which is the player trying to playback the file before it has enough data
[19:38:58] elmojo: my new HD-PVR fails almost everytime with livetv transitions so I'll give this a try and cross fingers
[19:39:28] iamlindoro: I do next to no live TV, but it still really bothers me that it's so unstable, primarily because so many people seem to see this issue
[19:39:39] iamlindoro: If the patches do the job I'll be elated
[19:39:48] elmojo: probably the number one complaint
[20:12:08] iamlindoro: Anyone have ideas about where we can get ~100 MB of samples that very possibly a lot of users will be downloading?
[20:12:16] iamlindoro: Sorry, poorly phrased
[20:12:20] iamlindoro: where we can host them, that is
[20:12:38] iamlindoro: Only downloads once per household, but still a potential for a lot of data
[20:15:03] iamlindoro: My dinky yahoo hosting isn't going to do the trick ;)
[20:15:30] kormoc: iamlindoro, we can mirror them like we do our binaries
[20:16:16] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch had some concerns about overstaying out welcome at OSU if we asked them to host that much, Just want to make sure whatever we do is courteous
[20:16:46] kormoc: We can talk to them about that
[20:16:48] iamlindoro: It's basically two samples, one 75 and one 25, with the potential for each user to download them once (at which point they stay on the MBE for any new frontends to use)
[20:17:06] kormoc: I can also host a fair bit of traffic if need be
[20:17:43] iamlindoro: Dunno where to begin for contacting OSUOSL-- would anyone who has an existing liaison with them be willing to do that part?
[20:18:27] kormoc: I should be able to handle say 5,000 downloads a month without a problem. I have a few spare GB of bandwidth
[20:25:10] stuartm: oddly enough that's the same amount my spare bandwidth would allow for
[20:26:10] stuartm: well ~4980
[20:28:03] stuartm: bandwidth is cheap, apparently
[20:29:44] kormoc: Heh, yeah, it is
[20:37:55] iamlindoro: It'd be nicer to not have to part it out if we can find someplace that can handle the traffic
[20:38:15] iamlindoro: ie, if OSU won't bat an eye at 100 MB * whatever number of users, then that is a good option
[20:38:33] iamlindoro: I suspect that's probably a fairly trivial amount of data for them, especially as it's likely to trickle in
[20:41:06] kormoc: Yeah, I think we just need to hop over into #OSU and talk to them there
[20:41:27] kormoc: okay, #OSL?
[20:41:49] kormoc: nope.. hrm... anyone know the channel? ( xris when you get back?)
[20:43:26] iamlindoro: #osuosl
[20:43:38] kormoc: Ahh, thanks
[20:43:44] iamlindoro: np, thank you
[20:44:15] kormoc: And they have a email address in the topic, I'll fire off an email and see what they think.
[20:44:58] iamlindoro: If it helps, it shouldn't be more than one download for the user's entire myth ecosystem, rather than once per frontend
[20:48:35] kormoc: Yeah, I mentioned that to them, we'll see what they say
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[21:07:45] stuartm: iamlindoro: if you've any interest in testing the revised patch – http://mythtv.pastebin.com/wiHX3EKJ
[21:07:59] stuartm: Paul's not around atm
[21:08:07] stuartm: !seen paul-h
[21:08:07] MythLogBot: paul-h was last seen 1 day 21 hours 17 minutes 17 seconds ago
[21:08:29] iamlindoro: I can try to test in the next day or two, work keeping me overly busy lately :(
[21:08:43] ** stuarta fiddles with OSX build some more **
[21:09:22] stuartm: iamlindoro: no hurry, I can't hardly fault anyone for being too busy to test a patch I'm too busy to test myself ;)
[21:10:16] stuarta: busy busy busy, that's all of us
[21:11:15] stuartm: stuarta: you still haven't got that thing built?
[21:11:25] stuarta: oh it builds
[21:11:37] stuarta: now i'm playing with building it with the old gcc
[21:12:04] stuarta: bah... configure doesn't accept CC and CXX overrides
[21:12:37] stuarta: well it should...
[21:12:57] sphery: stuarta: did you see my recommendation to disable symbol visibility on GCC < 4.2?
[21:13:13] stuarta: yeah, i did
[21:13:23] stuartm: OSX is stuck with an older gcc?
[21:13:28] stuarta: no
[21:13:33] sphery: would be quick and easy, and wouldn't make much difference--especially since few people are likely using such ancient gcc
[21:13:36] stuarta: it's got 4.2
[21:13:47] stuarta: but it looks like the older OSX's have 4.0
[21:14:05] stuartm: ouch
[21:14:18] stuarta: i might have to boot up 10.4 to be sure
[21:14:34] stuartm: 4.2 was released in 2007 :(
[21:14:37] iamlindoro: I've been trudging through issues concerning Apple's hatred for GPLv3 this whole month :(
[21:14:44] iamlindoro: They're trying to dump gcc entirely
[21:15:02] iamlindoro: And their Samba is ancient, which is my real problem-- you can't join Windows 7 clients to a Mac OS X domain
[21:15:17] iamlindoro: because they won't update their SAMBA paste when they went GPLv3
[21:15:35] stuartm: I won't bitch about being stuck with 4.4 any more
[21:15:50] iamlindoro: So now the question is, what in the hell do they intend to do with THAT moving forward... it's pushing me to have to use (ugh) AD
[21:16:11] stuarta: meh, just build a modern samba yourself
[21:16:18] stuarta: it is a BSD box after all
[21:16:48] iamlindoro: yeah, except all the management tools on OS X server are built around their customisations
[21:17:05] stuarta: aye
[21:17:07] iamlindoro: So building a SAMBA that will work with all the Server Admin stuff is tricky if not impossible
[21:18:09] stuartm: this would all be a lot easier if someone just shipped OSX binaries
[21:18:20] stuarta: i find this fun...
[21:19:22] wagnerrp: i thought apple was dropping their XServes
[21:19:54] ** stuarta haha's! **
[21:20:13] iamlindoro: they are
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[21:20:28] iamlindoro: they've EOL'd it... but have made no such announcement about MAc OS Server
[21:20:38] iamlindoro: which is where hte problem lies-- the hardware is fine
[21:20:44] iamlindoro: and Apple still ships Mac Mini servers
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[21:22:40] stuarta: charge about double what they charge for a plain mini
[21:23:21] iamlindoro: OS X Server had such amazing potential-- I actually had *fun* admin'ing it... but it has just languished because Apple is as ever, half in, half out of the enterprise world
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[21:58:57] xris: iamlindoro: we have room on our current server for that stuff..
[21:59:09] xris: hmm, osu talk reminds me I need to get services.mythtv.org moved over to the new box.
[21:59:13] xris: new/tmp box
[22:02:27] iamlindoro: xris: Are we okay for bandwidth too? 100 MB * however many users need to download samples?
[22:03:09] iamlindoro: If we are, that's ideal
[22:03:18] xris: should be ok
[22:03:28] xris: unless it's tens of thousands of users
[22:03:40] kormoc: I emailed them just to make sure it's a-okay
[22:03:44] iamlindoro: ideally not
[22:03:57] xris: kormoc: irc is faster/easier
[22:04:18] iamlindoro: It should be pretty staggered-- just as new users go through the initial setup wizard, and when/if old users add new frontends
[22:04:37] iamlindoro: (but only one download per Myth ecosystem)
[22:05:08] kormoc: xris, support ticket is their recommended way and now it's documented as they don't see a problem
[22:05:17] xris: cool
[22:05:20] xris: good point
[22:05:36] iamlindoro: kormoc, xris, thanks
[22:05:45] iamlindoro: (for the info and for following up with OSI)
[22:05:47] iamlindoro: er OSU
[22:06:54] xris: oops. we already moved services. damn. just overwrote the db with an old copy. oh well.
[22:07:14] kormoc: (Or rather, this guy doesn't expect it'll be an issue as long as we use their ftp mirroring stuff, ala source packages, I'll get more clarification as it comes, but for now, let's plan on it being greenlit)
[22:09:13] xris: kormoc: if it's on our own machine, will the mirroring stuff matter?
[22:09:43] kormoc: xris, why wouldn't we make usage of their huge network of mirrors for a large download?
[22:10:05] kormoc: I don't think we want to pump another few hundred gigs/tb out that box
[22:10:10] kormoc: of static files
[22:10:40] xris: true. didn't sound like that much, though.
[22:10:52] xris: or not all at once, anyway
[22:11:08] kormoc: xris, 100 megabytes of data per user, when we launch, it'll be *a lot* of users at once and then likely a trickle
[22:11:08] xris: really need to figure out how to move the mailing lists over to the new box.
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[22:11:26] xris: sounded like a few hundred/thousand
[22:11:32] kormoc: xris, aliases for mythtv.org is just handled in the /etc/aliases file?
[22:11:42] xris: aliases?
[22:11:46] kormoc: xris, at 100 megabytes per
[22:12:08] kormoc: xris, I want a mailinglist-admin@mythtv.org addy that goes to a bunch of us
[22:12:25] xris: there is on the new server
[22:12:26] kormoc: we're gonna start moderating the lists more and want an official group of folks to be involved
[22:12:45] xris: listadmin@ or something like that
[22:12:51] xris: maybe I ported it back to the current box.
[22:13:36] xris: but yes.. it'd be /etc/aliases
[22:13:56] kormoc: got a hostname to the old box?
[22:14:02] xris: www.mythtv.org ?
[22:14:12] xris: that's what I use
[22:14:52] xris: mailing lists are the last piece preventing me from migrating www to the new box
[22:14:55] kormoc: ahh
[22:15:15] xris: I'm not comfortable enough with just moving things over without testing.. and people with the knowhow haven't had time to help test
[22:15:53] xris: I think we need to create a lists.mythtv.org and configure it with a separate MX from mythtv.org
[22:18:33] xris: so if anyone wants to help get things tested, I'm all ears for what to do next (stuarta, kormoc, etc)
[22:21:19] iamlindoro: mv /var/lists/membership /dev/null
[22:21:22] iamlindoro: "whoops"  ;)
[22:22:12] iamlindoro: Granted, with our luck it'd only be the terrible people who would come back :)
[22:23:41] xris: just have to keep the hot-headed people on separate lists from each other.  ;)
[22:24:03] iamlindoro: robertm.mythtv.org;allothers.mythtv.org ;)
[22:25:34] kormoc: We need a myth-flamewars mailing list
[22:27:17] elmojo: cool, the patch for #9511 makes the LiveTV transition between programs seamless and smooth were before it would stutter and stall
[22:27:52] iamlindoro: elmojo: nice!
[22:28:04] iamlindoro: elmojo: Thoughts on the implmentation? I've not looked at it
[22:28:39] Chutt: xris, hey
[22:28:46] Chutt: xris, domain names
[22:30:32] elmojo: iamlindoro: yes, very clean and simple – I'll save it for Daniel as it makes changes to mpegts.c which he knows a lot better than me plus he's already dug into the issue and will know if it's optimal or not
[22:30:39] xris: Chutt: ?
[22:30:56] Chutt: what's the plan for those
[22:31:03] Chutt: ie, they're all in my name right now
[22:31:13] Chutt: wanted to move them over to the foundation or whatnot
[22:31:24] xris: I think the plan was to xfer them to the mythtv foundation once it was a legal entity
[22:31:34] Chutt: first one expires in a couple weeks.
[22:31:35] xris: Captain_Murdoch knows the most about the status of that process
[22:32:52] iamlindoro: elmojo: Did you note whether the mpegts.c changes are changes on top of our own parts, or to the ffmpeg bits?
[22:35:44] elmojo: haven't checked yet
[22:35:55] Chutt: ok
[22:35:57] Chutt: Captain_Murdoch, hey!
[22:39:32] xris: kormoc: do we have the bandwidth for a mythtv-flamewars list? heh
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[22:53:57] markk_: elmojo: didn't you spot the -EAGAIN issue a while back? or was it someone else...
[22:54:05] elmojo: not me
[22:54:33] elmojo: I have a test I'm going to run overnight to change program every 2 minutes and see if it fails – so far so good
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[22:56:05] elmojo: markk_: the changes to the Pause function seem logical to me but I don't understand the threading involved – his explanation makes sense though
[22:58:05] elmojo: ie. if you unpause the video thread before the decoder thread then obviously the video playback will not have anything to read immediately
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[23:24:43] markk_: elmojo: hrm – must have been Beirdo. re the pause changes – I can see the logic, I just can't image why it would make any real difference. I'll give it a test run though. the EAGAIN fix seems to be a no-brainer
[23:33:30] elmojo: markk_: would be nice if the mpegts.c could be applied upstream too
[23:34:21] markk_: elmojo: that may be part of our mpegtx.c modifications
[23:35:53] elmojo: true, I agree the EAGAIN looks like a no brainer – only thing I can think is if it could cause a permanent hang if the file never gets created or some other type of failure
[23:36:24] elmojo: hopefully the caller of the ringbuffer read would handle that
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[23:41:51] iamlindoro: The patsh is against ffmpeg code
[23:41:53] iamlindoro: er patch
[23:42:20] iamlindoro: That is to say, not against our modifications, seems to be a stock part of the demuxer
[23:45:09] iamlindoro: We'll just harass jannau to get all the mpegts modifications applied ;)
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