| Thursday, January 6th, 2011, 00:10 UTC | ||
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| [00:21:11] | stuartm: | dblain: and further to that, will SSDP work with the default service port of zero? (InitialiseSSDPOnly() doesn't load or set an alternative port) |
| [00:29:33] | Beirdo: | that's code that I added (so we don't bind the webserver) |
| [00:30:16] | Beirdo: | Oh, I guess you were the one I was working with at the time |
| [00:30:37] | Beirdo: | yah, getting dblain's eyes on that for some more checking would be wise. |
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| [03:42:54] | elmojo: | what is the link to the subversion github information? |
| [03:46:37] | Beirdo: | heh, one sec |
| [03:46:55] | Beirdo: | their blog can be crap to find things on |
| [03:47:25] | Beirdo: | https://github.com/blog/644-subversion-write-support |
| [03:47:32] | Beirdo: | leave it to google to find it ;) |
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| [04:16:03] | elmojo: | you can only checkout the default branch right now |
| [04:19:23] | elmojo: | Beirdo: any idea what would be the checkout command for our repo? |
| [04:19:36] | elmojo: | I tried various combinations but nothing worked |
| [04:20:11] | Beirdo: | seems svn co https://svn.github.com/MythTV/mythtv |
| [04:20:24] | Beirdo: | hopefully it behaves |
| [04:22:23] | elmojo: | cool, it's working |
| [04:22:57] | Beirdo: | I wish you luck :) |
| [04:23:22] | Beirdo: | I'm gonna bet the revision numbers won't match our original repo |
| [04:23:27] | Beirdo: | just a heads up :) |
| [04:25:39] | elmojo: | sure, it didn't check out mythtv/libs/* |
| [04:25:50] | elmojo: | that's kind of a problem |
| [04:26:47] | elmojo: | so it's a no go |
| [04:27:08] | elmojo: | looks like we are going to have to migrate back to svn and open a public git mirror |
| [04:27:34] | elmojo: | give a checkout a try and see if you get the mythtv/libs/* directories |
| [04:28:43] | Beirdo: | Yeah, it only half-ish worked for me too |
| [04:28:49] | Beirdo: | started around the same time as you |
| [04:29:06] | elmojo: | not good |
| [04:29:06] | Beirdo: | and so far, I'm right with you on your conclustion |
| [04:29:17] | Beirdo: | it might be something they can "fix", but... |
| [04:29:36] | Beirdo: | the public git mirror can still get pushed to github, of course |
| [04:29:41] | elmojo: | yes, it seems the git mirror is a tried and true scheme |
| [04:30:14] | Beirdo: | looks like our general plan will likely be having SVN at the core, and svn->git for those of us who like our git |
| [04:30:46] | Beirdo: | just need to make sure that the transition BACK to that is smooth :) |
| [04:30:48] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [04:30:59] | Beirdo: | one nasty transition is one too many |
| [04:31:44] | Beirdo: | we'll live somehow. Let's just be patient in the mean time. |
| [04:32:36] | Beirdo: | who knows, others may like git by then, but I think it's the best over-all outcome... SVN for svn lovers, git for git lovers... choice for those who could care less either way |
| [04:32:41] | elmojo: | you might want to update the e-mail and let xris know it didn't go so well |
| [04:32:54] | Beirdo: | as long as the sync can be kept sane |
| [04:33:08] | Beirdo: | yeah. You want the honors? :) |
| [04:33:12] | elmojo: | unfortunately the git people will have some limitations and will still have to use svn to get their changes in |
| [04:33:19] | Beirdo: | possibly |
| [04:33:34] | Beirdo: | there are ways to get git->svn to be bidirectional |
| [04:33:42] | elmojo: | oh really? |
| [04:33:43] | elmojo: | cool |
| [04:33:44] | Beirdo: | but I don't know that we'll ever make that stable enough |
| [04:34:04] | Beirdo: | I'll be investigating, for sure |
| [04:34:29] | Beirdo: | yeah, it can be done, but it's not necessarily easy |
| [04:35:01] | Beirdo: | which is why we didn't do it in the first place. It has potential issues as branches are different internally, etc |
| [04:35:20] | Beirdo: | but, where there's a will, there's gotta be at least one way |
| [04:35:44] | Beirdo: | and I can live with going back to working in git, and then patching into svn to commit |
| [04:35:51] | Beirdo: | it's a pain, but I'll live with it |
| [04:36:08] | Beirdo: | at least it's a pain I'm putting on myself, not others |
| [04:36:09] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [04:37:33] | Beirdo: | but with an equal number of people wanting svn and git, it would be nice to have a solution with both available |
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| [04:37:59] | Beirdo: | I'm OK with being stuck with a harder workflow to be able to use git, so... |
| [04:38:31] | Beirdo: | anyways, let's try not to hurry the switch so we don't mess it up... again... |
| [04:39:04] | Beirdo: | I'm still disappointed that we couldn't give it a better chance, but bygones be bygones and all |
| [04:42:49] | clever: | Beirdo: have you tried throwing http://eagain.net/articles/git-for-computer-scientists/ at the svn guys? |
| [04:43:18] | Beirdo: | Have you been under a rock? |
| [04:43:27] | clever: | a bit |
| [04:44:32] | Beirdo: | We have several people, who, for various reasons, are extremely dissatisfied with svn. |
| [04:44:59] | Beirdo: | We are all tired of the drama, and want a peaceful development team again |
| [04:45:12] | Beirdo: | I won't be throwing *anything* at em |
| [04:45:18] | clever: | overall, i think git is better |
| [04:45:27] | clever: | its just a bit of a sharp learning curve |
| [04:45:52] | Beirdo: | agreed, but not everyone is willing/able/going to learn it |
| [04:45:54] | Beirdo: | so... meh |
| [04:46:08] | clever: | the link i pasted helps explain some of the concepts in git |
| [04:46:36] | clever: | it also explained the branching problem i had in #mythtv-users about an hour ago |
| [04:47:35] | Beirdo: | yeah well. If we have free choice to use either, then any who are interested in learning git can still do so |
| [04:47:46] | Beirdo: | and those who aren't... aren't forced to |
| [04:47:55] | Beirdo: | and we will all sleep well at night. |
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| [04:51:15] | elmojo: | sorry, trying to get my new hd-pvr to work under linux |
| [04:51:37] | elmojo: | mercurial makes git look great |
| [04:52:11] | Beirdo: | elmojo: doesn't it though :) |
| [04:52:23] | clever: | i know firefox uses hg, but i havent looked at it much to see how it differs from git |
| [04:52:25] | Beirdo: | oooh, new hd-pvr. always fun |
| [04:52:34] | elmojo: | first, hd-pvr |
| [04:52:44] | elmojo: | having to add new product ID for it |
| [04:52:49] | Beirdo: | welcome to the fun |
| [04:52:55] | elmojo: | e-mailing xris the results |
| [04:52:55] | Beirdo: | a new model? |
| [04:53:12] | Beirdo: | thanks. I think it will carry more weight coming from you :) |
| [04:53:37] | Beirdo: | feel free to mention I tried it with the same crap result :) |
| [04:55:25] | elmojo: | done |
| [04:56:00] | elmojo: | dunno why it would carry more weight... like I matter :) |
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| [04:57:42] | Beirdo: | well, some might ignore me at this point as they may still be too annoyed about git :) |
| [04:58:01] | Beirdo: | although, saying "yeah, it's borked" should be fine anyways |
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| [07:43:01] | rooaus: | Beirdo: I haven't seen any discussion about the potential benefits of a distributed VCS for attracting new potential devs by allowing them to undertake significant work without commit access. Or for keeping medium to complex patches up to date until looked at by a dev. It seems that medium to long term that could help the project get new dev blood. |
| [07:43:14] | rooaus: | A git mirror would do the job though. |
| [07:45:23] | rooaus: | Not trying to fan any embers but think it is a valid consideration. I have let patched rot because of effort updating them only to have them bitrot again (not a criticism of devs). |
| [07:47:05] | Beirdo: | rooaus: I understand. And I agree too |
| [07:47:42] | Beirdo: | we'll find a good way to get this all sorted out.. smoothly, one hopes |
| [07:48:50] | Beirdo: | that is one heck of a good consideration in my mind, always has been |
| [07:57:29] | rooaus: | yeah, it is a difficult one to quantify though but I suspect medium to long term the project would benefit significantly. But a bird in the hand (current devs) is worth two in the hand (future devs). |
| [07:58:02] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [07:59:52] | rooaus: | What the project needs is a devcon, get everyone in the same place to share a cordial (or beer or two). :) |
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| [08:01:11] | Beirdo: | good luck with that. |
| [08:01:50] | Beirdo: | with devs in Australia, Europe, North America... South America, if you include translators too... |
| [08:02:44] | Beirdo: | a wonderful thought... but hardly practical :) |
| [08:04:27] | rooaus: | Yeah, I was pondering the cost, it would be significant and there seems to be little chance of it being subsidised. I would happily donate a non trivial amount but it would take a truckload (flights from Aus are $$$). Pipedream as you suggest. |
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| [08:58:38] | stuarta: | IMHO we seriously haven't given git enough time |
| [09:00:20] | stuarta: | anyway, meeting |
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| [09:11:24] | Beirdo: | stuarta: totally agreed. and I will do my best to keep git as a viable option |
| [09:11:40] | Beirdo: | but it will be an *option*, which should make people happy |
| [09:11:54] | Beirdo: | we just need to figure how to get from point a to point b |
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| [10:52:39] | ** stuarta ho hums at unusual linker errors ** | |
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| [11:00:00] | stuarta: | jya: what is the intention behind the "#pragma weak av_guess_format..." in spdifencoder.h ??? |
| [11:00:42] | jya: | stuarta: so plugins wouldn't have to depend on libav* |
| [11:00:44] | stuarta: | my OSX build barfs on link of spdifencoder due to http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/ctors.html#faq-10.12 |
| [11:01:22] | jya: | stuarta: the spdif encoder now relies on libavformat and libavcodec |
| [11:01:55] | jya: | as I didn't want to break the current architecture of plugins only requiring libmyth and libmythdb to build |
| [11:02:16] | stuartm: | mythmusic already requires libav* |
| [11:02:18] | stuarta: | hmmm, we might have to have a rethink |
| [11:02:19] | jya: | I made all references to libavformat and libavcodec weak |
| [11:02:53] | stuartm: | all plugins additionally require libmythui fwiw |
| [11:02:58] | jya: | stuarta: I only added this, because otherwise plugins wouldn't build. the all link to libmyth, which now depends on libav* |
| [11:03:24] | jya: | so anything building against libmyth, would now also have to link against all libav* |
| [11:03:32] | stuarta: | i would have thought adding libav* to the plugin libs would have been better |
| [11:03:46] | stuarta: | hmmm |
| [11:03:48] | jya: | the spdifencoder as such, test if dynamic linking work, if not, spdif encoder returns an error |
| [11:04:06] | stuarta: | however it doesn't even build on the mac |
| [11:04:13] | jya: | stuarta: it's not just the plugin libs, it's *anything* using libmyth |
| [11:04:35] | stuarta: | weren't you contemplating putting the audio stuff into it's own lib? |
| [11:04:36] | jya: | I specifically checked on that, and #pragma weak is supported by gcc on my mac |
| [11:04:50] | stuarta: | which OSX and Xcode? |
| [11:04:53] | jya: | stuarta: yes, that was the other option.. have libmythaudio .. |
| [11:05:03] | ** stuarta would have preferred that ** | |
| [11:05:09] | stuarta: | but anyway |
| [11:05:23] | stuarta: | 10.6.latest |
| [11:05:39] | jya: | however, the amount of work required to have libmythaudio and making all references used in spdifencoder weak , is much much simpler |
| [11:05:59] | jya: | I use 10.6, Xcodec 4 preview, but it's the same gcc as xcode 3 |
| [11:06:12] | stuarta: | phone |
| [11:07:22] | jya: | stuarta: and from what I could find , #pragma weak is also supported by gcc on windows |
| [11:07:27] | jya: | though I didn't test |
| [11:10:46] | stuarta: | i'm using the latest non preview |
| [11:10:53] | stuarta: | latest as of dec anyway |
| [11:16:48] | stuarta: | gcc version 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5664) |
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| [14:38:59] | stuartm: | clever: in summary, whilst some people like git others don't and they do not wish to be forced to use it, it's not a question of not understanding it (why does everyone think that people will love git if they only give it time?) |
| [14:40:43] | stuartm: | does anyone buy the argument that you'll grow to love the Spice Girls if only you listen long enough? (Doesn't work that way, just as those in Guantanemo) |
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| [14:52:10] | stuarta: | i don't expect everyone to love git, i believe that given time they will be just as productive with it as svn |
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| [14:53:18] | stuarta: | and for reference there are already 14 forks of mythtv on github, which indicates a number of prospective developers |
| [14:54:17] | stuartm: | only if we had a figure for the number of people with an svn fork for comparison |
| [14:54:56] | stuarta: | the useful thing with git is, we can pull code back from those forks to mythtv |
| [14:55:15] | stuartm: | but I don't see why that's an argument for a git-only repo anyway, you can create a git fork of MythTV from an svn repo – just ask jannau |
| [14:55:57] | stuartm: | stuarta: suddenly the low tech patch approach doesn't work? |
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| [14:56:11] | stuarta: | never said it didn't |
| [14:56:24] | stuarta: | it's an _additional_ way of getting code in |
| [14:59:03] | stuartm: | Marmite |
| [14:59:35] | stuarta: | vegemite for me :) |
| [14:59:45] | stuartm: | well me too ;) |
| [15:02:07] | stuartm: | actually I didn't hate git until just now, I just felt it got in the way too much, was overly complicated for our (my) needs and a barrier to new developers ... but the zealotry it seems to inspire is rapidly driving me to the opposite extreme |
| [15:02:58] | stuarta: | i ignore all forms of zealotry and analyze the tools themselves |
| [15:03:06] | stuarta: | which is what i recommend everyone do |
| [15:03:16] | stuarta: | and i've not found git complicated or offensive |
| [15:03:50] | stuartm: | which is what several of us have done, and we've come to the conclusion that we have, but for some that doesn't seem to be good enough |
| [15:04:59] | stuartm: | stuarta: yeah, some people don't seem to mind all the additional work that git generates – as j-rod said last night, he feels it's an acceptable trade off |
| [15:05:26] | j-rod|afk is now known as j-rod | |
| [15:06:06] | stuarta: | tbh, for my workflow the "additional work" is no more than what i was already doing with quilt |
| [15:06:22] | stuartm: | I don't, especially when svn seems to be working on offering many of the benefits without adding to the overall complexity of the tool – can't say whether they'll succeed since that's still in development |
| [15:06:59] | stuarta: | i'm always refreshing the patches against latest head before they get committed. |
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| [15:07:16] | stuarta: | no difference to working in a git branch and rebasing it occasionally |
| [15:07:31] | stuarta: | or stash, pull, pop |
| [15:10:14] | stuartm: | xris seems to think my "I've tried it, but don't like it" argument is the only one which holds weight, personally I think the "barrier to new casual contributors" is a much stronger argument – if experienced developers are being told to live with it for a few months before they'll realise the benefits where does that leave hobbyist developer? |
| [15:10:45] | stuarta: | i hope that's where the svn integration on github will work |
| [15:11:37] | stuartm: | the ideal solution will be one that allows the use of both svn and git, side by side |
| [15:12:14] | stuartm: | because no-one is saying that git should not be used at all, merely that they don't wish to use git themselves |
| [15:12:33] | elmojo: | github svn doesn't work at the moment |
| [15:13:50] | elmojo: | we tried it last night and it doesn't even checkout all the files – I imagine they are a long ways from it being production ready |
| [15:14:13] | stuartm: | elmojo: I was just about to give it a go, just to see whether I had the same problem |
| [15:14:20] | ** stuarta is doing that now ** | |
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| [15:15:24] | elmojo: | it doesn't support branches yet either |
| [15:16:49] | stuartm: | ok, checkout is missing files |
| [15:17:02] | stuartm: | sadly |
| [15:17:41] | stuartm: | programs, libs and themes directories are missing |
| [15:17:54] | stuarta: | it looks like it gets part the way through and then dies. |
| [15:18:09] | stuarta: | i wonder if it's hitting a memory limit in the background |
| [15:18:19] | stuarta: | has anyone reported this to github? |
| [15:18:38] | stuarta: | ps. an svn up doesn't pull in the missing stuff |
| [15:26:16] | stuartm: | seems the dying issue is known, mentioned in the comments to the github blog post back in May, Github staff member said they would investigate |
| [15:28:33] | stuarta: | i think it needs to be reported anyway, so they can follow up on it |
| [15:30:10] | ** stuarta tries something else ** | |
| [15:32:26] | stuarta: | nice |
| [15:32:46] | stuarta: | November 03, 2010 "This is a known issue, we're working on a fix. Until then, you'll have to use git with this repo" |
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| [15:33:48] | stuartm: | is that in their bug tracker or FAQ somewhere? |
| [15:33:59] | stuarta: | http://support.github.com/discussions/repos/4 . . . out-svn-repo |
| [15:34:11] | stuarta: | it seems to bite various people in different repo's |
| [15:41:09] | stuarta: | well i've attempted to start a support discussion "svn checkout doesn't get a complete copy of git repo" however it apparently need moderation approval |
| [15:41:14] | stuarta: | will wait and see |
| [15:41:44] | stuarta: | http://support.github.com/discussions/repos/5 . . . -of-git-repo |
| [15:41:55] | stuarta: | moderation clearly doesn't take very long :) |
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| [15:54:58] | BLZbubba: | is there an official place to submit media with playback problems (e.g. dvd's and recorded tv shows in .ts format) ? |
| [15:57:29] | stuarta: | not at the moment no, we usually start with asking if it can be played with mplayer |
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| [15:58:41] | MrGandalf: | Are old commit logs still available somewhere? |
| [15:59:05] | stuarta: | i thought there was an archive of -commits |
| [15:59:38] | MrGandalf: | I'm on the list. I want to actually see the code changes for a specific commit. |
| [15:59:55] | BLZbubba: | stuarta: ok thanks, I'll try some other options. mythtv is tprobably the only usable vdpau player though, so it is almost impossible to test hi def transport streams with anythign else :) |
| [15:59:56] | stuarta: | ah i see. |
| [16:00:36] | stuarta: | MrGandalf: i believe the same commits are in git and you can see the code changes there. the hard part is finding the change |
| [16:01:02] | stuarta: | BLZbubba: i think mplayer has a vdpau option but i may be wrong |
| [16:01:32] | MrGandalf: | stuarta: what you mean by "hard part" you really are saying "next to impossible". :) |
| [16:01:50] | ** stuarta suspects you've tried ** | |
| [16:05:21] | MrGandalf: | can't say I'm a fan of the git web interface.. |
| [16:07:50] | MrGandalf: | no search.. |
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| [16:09:42] | sphery: | MrGandalf: /q MythLogBot followed by svn 25341 |
| [16:10:48] | j-rod: | wagnerrp: just found the glaringly stupid bug in the mceusb driver (present in 2.6.37) that horks up some signals... |
| [16:11:50] | j-rod: | the rx timeout value is supposed to be stored in nanoseconds. I was storing a microsecond value. that was then being compared with an acutal nanosecond value, which was much higher than the timeout value, so the receiver was being put into idle mode too soon |
| [16:12:27] | j-rod: | in idle mode, any incoming spaces are ignored, you only come out of idle upon receiving the next pulse (start of next signal) |
| [16:12:30] | MrGandalf: | sphery: very nice, thanks |
| [16:12:32] | j-rod: | oops |
| [16:13:49] | stuarta: | informative oops |
| [16:14:18] | j-rod: | MrGandalf: git log -p, /25341 |
| [16:14:30] | j-rod: | Author: Mark Kendall |
| [16:14:39] | j-rod: | Avoid a compiler warning when MMX is unavailable or disabled. |
| [16:14:42] | j-rod: | that commit? |
| [16:15:10] | j-rod: | ^^^ one reason why I absolutely love git |
| [16:15:13] | j-rod: | :) |
| [16:15:34] | MrGandalf: | no, I was looking for 26518. I think sphery used 25341 as an example. |
| [16:16:09] | j-rod: | ah, so Author: John Poet |
| [16:16:19] | j-rod: | Add a rsTuning state... |
| [16:16:27] | MrGandalf: | yep |
| [16:16:39] | stuarta: | j-rod: that command doesn't work for me |
| [16:16:52] | j-rod: | stuarta: two commands there |
| [16:17:03] | j-rod: | well, one command |
| [16:17:17] | j-rod: | the /26518 is "seach for this string in the pagered output" |
| [16:17:47] | j-rod: | so first, 'git log' |
| [16:17:56] | j-rod: | or 'git log -p' |
| [16:18:09] | stuarta: | ah right |
| [16:18:12] | j-rod: | a simple 'git log' to find the commit, then git show <hash> is probably more efficient |
| [16:18:29] | j-rod: | note that 26518 was partially reverted in 26951 |
| [16:21:19] | MrGandalf: | hmm, too many changes to go through anyway, but thanks for the help. |
| [16:21:40] | MrGandalf: | I really need to upgrade one of these days.. |
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| [16:46:18] | BLZbubba: | stuarta: mplayer has some sort of vdpau but it doesn't work well; and their interlacing is beyond lame |
| [16:46:23] | BLZbubba: | fwiw |
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| [17:36:36] | stuartm: | j-rod: I'm curious, what about 'git log' makes it special? |
| [17:39:11] | j-rod: | stuartm: its incredibly flexible/powerful for showing you what's changed where, without having to resort to something like trac |
| [17:39:36] | j-rod: | you can say "only show me the changes between points x and y" |
| [17:39:45] | j-rod: | you can say "show me only the changes to this file" |
| [17:39:57] | j-rod: | with or without the actual code changes and/or diffstat |
| [17:40:09] | stuartm: | ah, ok, I thought you meant it offered something beyond what svn log does |
| [17:40:13] | j-rod: | can search it |
| [17:40:39] | j-rod: | I had the impression svn log was a lot more limited |
| [17:40:52] | j-rod: | and thus the real need for something like trac |
| [17:41:06] | j-rod: | but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong… :) |
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| [17:41:36] | superm1: | j-rod, curious, why did /sys/devices/virtual/rc disappear in 2.6.37? |
| [17:42:01] | superm1: | someone in #ubuntu-mythtv was trying to figure out why the lirc init script for ubuntu was failing on 2.6.37 and apparently it's no longer there, so just needs to be adjusted to /sys/class/rc or so |
| [17:42:04] | j-rod: | superm1: I think there was some device heirarchy issue... |
| [17:42:09] | j-rod: | so yeah, its now /sys/class/rc/ |
| [17:42:55] | j-rod: | stuartm: I don't think I've looked very hard at svn and what it can or can't do in a few years now, tbh |
| [17:44:29] | j-rod: | superm1: one more improvement I'd suggest |
| [17:44:33] | superm1: | sure |
| [17:44:41] | j-rod: | superm1: echo lirc > /sys/class/rc/rc0/protocols |
| [17:44:50] | superm1: | oh that just turns the others all off? |
| [17:44:50] | j-rod: | instead of the for loop echoing each proto |
| [17:44:54] | j-rod: | correct |
| [17:44:58] | superm1: | nice, thanks |
| [17:45:01] | j-rod: | echo none disables all |
| [17:45:23] | j-rod: | echo a single proto with no +/-, and its "enable only this proto, disable all others" |
| [17:45:25] | stuartm: | j-rod: svn log does everything you mention except the diff bit and that's included in the next release |
| [17:46:19] | j-rod: | stuartm: open source being open source, I'd be surprised if many of the best ideas from each of the different scm didn't get copied from one to another |
| [17:46:47] | j-rod: | most of my scars are probably more from cvs than svn too, fwiw |
| [17:47:11] | j-rod: | fedora's package management scm only recently got rid of cvs (switched to git) |
| [17:47:41] | j-rod: | and internally, we're still using cvs for package management (to be switched to git in the relatively near future though — kinks getting worked out on fedora first) |
| [17:48:29] | superm1: | j-rod, is there a magic word to turn them all back on too? |
| [17:49:05] | j-rod: | unfortunately, no :) |
| [17:49:21] | j-rod: | was looking for the same when I finally added similar bits to the fedora lirc initscript |
| [17:49:55] | j-rod: | what I do on shutdown is echo none in, then read the contents and do a for loop, echoing each of those with a + back in |
| [17:49:55] | superm1: | oh well, then i guess the loop will have to stay for the stop action then |
| [17:50:00] | BLZbubba: | hmm is there a debian mythtv group? |
| [17:50:00] | Beirdo: | stuartm: another nice thing with git log... since ya asked... it is blazingly fast. |
| [17:50:32] | Beirdo: | i.e. go to a git checkout of mythtv (on master for instance)... do "time git log > /dev/null" |
| [17:50:42] | superm1: | BLZbubba, there's been a few attempts at getting it in debian, but nothing has actually stuck. |
| [17:50:56] | Beirdo: | that's dumping the whole history of master... on my crappy dev box... 1s |
| [17:51:33] | j-rod: | superm1: also, a heads up, there are two fugly buglets, one in mceusb and one in imon, in 2.6.37 |
| [17:51:52] | j-rod: | mceusb device gets set idle too soon, causes issues for some protocols, at least when using lirc decode |
| [17:51:52] | BLZbubba: | yeah they are not too friendly about keeping up to date so it will probably be 0.24 forever |
| [17:52:07] | j-rod: | and imon ffdc device auto-detection is broken |
| [17:52:10] | superm1: | j-rod, ooh fun. are you gonna push patches to -stable still? |
| [17:52:19] | j-rod: | but I plan to send the relatively trivial patches to fix both of those to -stable |
| [17:52:27] | superm1: | okay then, those should be picked up no troubles |
| [17:52:30] | superm1: | there's still plenty of time |
| [17:52:42] | Beirdo: | but anyways :) |
| [17:53:22] | superm1: | BLZbubba, you might be able to try using mythbuntu packages on debian. most of the stuff should carry over. you can hop in #ubuntu-mythtv and we can work through it if you want to find the deficiencies |
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| [17:54:50] | BLZbubba: | heh the biggest deficiency is upstart :) but yeah that is a good idea, especially when 0.24 is obsolete |
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| [18:11:15] | j-rod: | damn you, newegg. two tempting deals today... |
| [18:12:16] | stuartm: | Beirdo: yeah, that's probably because git pulls all the info from the local clone whereas svn refers to the remote copy, again that might change with the introduction of a local repo mode in the next release of svn – we'll have to wait and see |
| [18:13:59] | j-rod: | so at the moment, if you have no network connection, no log data for you? |
| [18:14:24] | j-rod: | not that I'm often without a network connection |
| [18:14:43] | j-rod: | but that's one of the things I absolutely despised about cvs |
| [18:14:58] | stuartm: | all that said, I never really used svn log or git log, a web based commit browser may be slower but you've got direct links to full histories of individual files, annotation etc |
| [18:15:11] | j-rod: | even if you have a connection, its slow as sin by comparison |
| [18:15:43] | j-rod: | if I'm thinking clearly, at least svn diff doesn't need network, right? |
| [18:15:58] | stuartm: | j-rod: can't say what it does without a connection, I've never tried and I'm not going to pull the cord to test :) |
| [18:16:03] | j-rod: | that one *really* annoys the hell out of me with cvs |
| [18:16:28] | stuartm: | j-rod: svn diff doesn't need the network afaik, certainly I've never had that impression of it |
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| [18:16:44] | j-rod: | yeah, I'm fairly certain it doesn't also |
| [18:16:57] | BLZbubba: | j-rod: what are you looking at from newegg? they are a big drain on disposable income sometimes |
| [18:17:29] | j-rod: | wireless keyboard/touchpad and mediasonic esata raid enclosures on today's shell-shocker list |
| [18:18:02] | j-rod: | I already have the non-hardware-raid mediasonic enclosure at home though |
| [18:18:35] | j-rod: | requires a port-multiplexing esata connection, but allowed me to move my software raid array into it w/o having to alter it at all |
| [18:19:16] | Beirdo^2: | That's my general expansion path for my backend box |
| [18:20:19] | j-rod: | my mbe currently has a 2-drive RAID1 array internal for OS and database, all media storage on the four 1.5T drives in the esata box |
| [18:20:36] | stuartm: | I wonder how stable the pre-release svn 1.7.0 is, itching to compare it against git |
| [18:21:26] | j-rod: | stuartm: out of curiosity, do you use svn for anything besides mythtv? |
| [18:22:06] | j-rod: | my work involves a healthy dose of git every day, which probably plays no small part in my preference for it |
| [18:22:43] | j-rod: | if it were mostly svn during the work day, I'd likely prefer not to have to bother with yet another scm |
| [18:24:07] | j-rod: | goes to what iamlindoro was saying about comfort level/confidence that you're not unknowingly screwing something up |
| [18:24:42] | ** j-rod kicks the horse some more to see if maybe its only *playing* dead. ;) ** | |
| [18:25:08] | stuartm: | j-rod: I use it for my 'daytime' work, although not heavily |
| [18:25:33] | j-rod: | that enclosure does fw800 too… hm… could hook easily to my macs too… tempting... |
| [18:25:53] | Beirdo^2: | Nice |
| [18:26:14] | ** j-rod weighs benefits vs. amount of yelling wife will do... ** | |
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| [18:28:07] | stuartm: | as I keep saying, it's not a question of unwillingness to learn something new, I enjoy learning new things but in the case of git I just see it as an obstacle and not a tool which makes my job easier |
| [18:28:32] | stuartm: | which ultimately is what all tools, all software should do – it should make life easier |
| [18:30:55] | j-rod: | I see it as a more flexible and more powerful tool, that actually does make my job a lot easier, with the caveat that it took a lot longer to get comfortable with than a less flexible and/or powerful tool |
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| [18:30:56] | stuartm: | I don't remember cursing svn for some limitation or flaw, I barely give any thought to svn and so I have no reason to switch away from it – it does the job for me |
| [18:31:29] | j-rod: | however, that's with a kernel-centric view of thigns |
| [18:32:18] | j-rod: | way back when, in the 0.18 days, iirc, I cursed svn when trying to maintain a -fixes branch |
| [18:32:46] | stuartm: | j-rod: if I was working on something so massively complicated, with so many different contributors, forks and a frantic pace of development I might find git to be preferable too |
| [18:32:50] | j-rod: | plucking a single change from trunk to the branch was manual and tedious, and/or I just didn't know what the hell I was doing |
| [18:32:51] | cesman (cesman!~cecil@pdpc/supporter/professional/cesman) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | |
| [18:33:09] | j-rod: | but that was also several years ago now |
| [18:33:11] | stuartm: | j-rod: "svn cherrypick <revision>" |
| [18:34:02] | j-rod: | how long has that been around? |
| [18:34:34] | stuartm: | actually, I'm now getting confused with git ... in svn 'cherrypick' is "svn merge -c <revision>" |
| [18:38:44] | stuartm: | j-rod: it goes back at least as far as SVN 1.5 which is 18 months? |
| [18:39:23] | j-rod: | I think the bulk of my svn know-how is pre-1.4, so I'll just back away slowly… :) |
| [18:40:03] | stuartm: | before that though you still had "svn merge <reva>:<revb>" which did the same thing if the two specified revisions were next to each another |
| [18:40:53] | stuartm: | -c just added a shortcut |
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| [18:44:51] | Chutt: | that's cool |
| [18:45:00] | Chutt: | probably wouldn't handle moved files as well as a git cherrypick, but |
| [18:45:02] | Chutt: | close |
| [18:45:02] | Beirdo: | OK. no more draining my Nexus One battery :) |
| [18:45:19] | Chutt: | everyone see all the tegra2 stuff at ces? =) |
| [18:46:10] | j-rod: | Chutt: had the same thought about moved files. finding that git cherry-pick handles that was a very pleasant surprise one day. |
| [18:46:32] | j-rod: | and assuming you mean the big middle finger than nvidia gave intel, yes, saw that. very cool :) |
| [18:46:46] | Chutt: | and the actual devices and stuff |
| [18:47:09] | j-rod: | hadn't seen any actual devices, just the announcement about the partnership with arm and plans for desktop/server/hpc |
| [18:47:18] | Chutt: | oh |
| [18:47:20] | Chutt: | bah! |
| [18:48:47] | stuartm: | can't answer the question of moved files, given all the other git inspired changes it might be something their new repo history format supports though ... |
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| [18:50:09] | ** j-rod fires up netnewswire for all the latest ces info and whatnot from various media outlets... ** | |
| [18:50:56] | ** stuartm has been avoiding the coverage as he's trying to get some work done ** | |
| [18:51:26] | stuartm: | not very successfully ... |
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| [18:53:05] | Chutt: | =) |
| [18:56:43] | j-rod: | interesting: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/05/samsungs-r . . . uts-three-i/ |
| [18:57:12] | ** j-rod tempts stuartm away from more work ;) ** | |
| [18:58:21] | Chutt: | i still need actual buttons on my remotes |
| [18:59:31] | stuartm: | aye, I want to be looking at the TV when I play/pause/skip or adjust the volume, not at the remote |
| [18:59:50] | stuartm: | there is a lot to be said for tactile feedback |
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| [19:20:38] | j-rod: | yeah, I generally prefer physical buttons as well. pretty happy with the tivo slide remote. |
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| [21:14:23] | j-rod: | superm1: wtf is the deal with ubuntu being unable to update its lirc packages from 0.8.7-pre3 to 0.8.7 final? that's really starting to irk me. |
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| [22:26:40] | stuartm: | cool, one of the issues that SVN 1.7 will solve is that you can't mv or cp files more than once, e.g. if you move a file but then change your mind on the final location you can now move it again without a revert |
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| [22:38:36] | Beirdo: | oh, that's a nice change... |
| [22:41:21] | superm1: | j-rod|afk, is there a bug someone turned it down already? |
| [22:41:30] | stuartm: | not an issue that I've run into more than once, but still nice that it won't be a restriction any more |
| [22:42:13] | Beirdo: | one more funkiness in SVN gonna be gone |
| [22:42:34] | Beirdo: | silly things like that just aren't logical to the average human and all. |
| [22:42:38] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [22:43:01] | Beirdo: | of course, every VCS has some funkiness in it somewhere |
| [22:43:25] | Beirdo: | we did hit that one pretty hard at my former employer though |
| [22:43:48] | Beirdo: | they couldn't make up their flippin mind how they wanted the repo layed out |
| [22:45:23] | Beirdo: | hmm |
| [22:45:38] | Beirdo: | I guess I can remove the buildslave config for mythsystem branch now |
| [22:46:15] | stuartm: | seems the new repo database will solve a lot of similar issues |
| [22:46:32] | Beirdo: | that's good |
| [22:46:49] | Beirdo: | when's release supposed to be? |
| [22:47:09] | Beirdo: | and will we need just the server upgraded to take advantage, or the client too? |
| [22:47:20] | stuartm: | sometime this quarter, I'm not sure if they've set a specific date |
| [22:47:26] | Beirdo: | hmm |
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| [22:47:50] | Beirdo: | Cool though. |
| [22:48:17] | stuartm: | new http protocol is supposed to mean faster checkouts etc too |
| [22:48:20] | Beirdo: | well, since one way or another, we are likely to have SVN available again "soonish"... be nice if it were ready :) |
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| [22:48:40] | Beirdo: | we gotta make plans on how to go dual-stack. |
| [22:48:53] | Beirdo: | I wish we had spent more time doing that the first time around |
| [22:49:10] | Beirdo: | but we can't change the past, just learn from it |
| [22:49:36] | stuartm: | I'm not sure about the client/server question, the answer is probably around somewhere I've just not read it yet |
| [22:49:43] | Beirdo: | K. |
| [22:49:54] | Beirdo: | it would be super-sweet if it were server-only required |
| [22:50:12] | Beirdo: | like run 1.6 client (still an upgrade for many, I'd bet) |
| [22:50:34] | Beirdo: | wow |
| [22:50:58] | Beirdo: | our warning count is way down now that the deprecated for stuff we're gonna rip out is silenced |
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| [22:51:12] | Beirdo: | nice work |
| [22:51:31] | superm1: | wait what, svn available again soonish? Did I miss something? |
| [22:52:13] | Beirdo: | yeah. you missed a pile of pain... seems about half the dev team wants svn back, half wants to use git. |
| [22:52:19] | Beirdo: | so... compromise time. |
| [22:52:24] | superm1: | what was the compromise? |
| [22:52:30] | Beirdo: | Hopefully... we can do both |
| [22:52:50] | Beirdo: | svn would have to be the core (as svn->git->svn normally is that way) |
| [22:53:01] | Beirdo: | it's painful though |
| [22:53:06] | superm1: | it sounds like it will be |
| [22:53:06] | Beirdo: | but. MEH! :) |
| [22:53:25] | superm1: | but that means that in theory the git stuff that is already there right now should still work and i dont need to rewrite all my scripts again right? :) |
| [22:53:37] | Beirdo: | that would be the plan |
| [22:54:06] | Beirdo: | it likely will also require us to have an active webservice to convert revision numbers back and forth |
| [22:54:28] | superm1: | which could mean a lot of stress on the server i'm taking it too |
| [22:54:34] | Beirdo: | but rather than alienate half the team by going all one way or all the other... |
| [22:54:51] | Beirdo: | if it can be done... doing both is the ideal situation |
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| [22:55:17] | Beirdo: | gonna be a transition that needs a pile of planning |
| [22:55:33] | superm1: | and of course by then the half of the folks who wanted svn will be used to git too |
| [22:56:06] | Beirdo: | but I think (and I would bet that almost all would agree) that for the team to survive fairly intact (if not entirely so), we need to find a workable solution that all will be OK with |
| [22:56:22] | superm1: | right |
| [22:56:31] | Beirdo: | and for those who don't want to use git, fine. :) |
| [22:56:37] | Beirdo: | for those who do... fine :) |
| [22:57:03] | Beirdo: | and git does have the additional advantage of the many many forks on github where people can stage their patches, etc |
| [22:57:19] | Beirdo: | not everyone wants that for themselves, and I understand and respect that. |
| [22:57:34] | Beirdo: | but it is still of value to the project to encourage fresh blood, etc. |
| [22:58:14] | Beirdo: | but doing so at the potential risk of losing a pile of the CURRENT group... was admittedly a bit short-sighted. |
| [22:58:56] | Beirdo: | to be honest, I never expected it to go this poorly, and I still don't think we've given it enough of a chance, but whatever. There are valid reasons out there that some want svn, so dual-stack it is. |
| [22:59:46] | Beirdo: | or rather... hopefully will be. |
| [22:59:51] | Beirdo: | certainly isn't right now |
| [23:00:33] | superm1: | right |
| [23:03:24] | Beirdo: | let's just hope people can tone the rhetoric down and try to work together better. |
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