| Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 00:23 UTC | ||
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| [00:35:16] | Anssi: | jya: ping |
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| [02:24:43] | xris: | Hurray, a week of no real work so I can work on mythweb... er, childproofing.. |
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| [03:09:43] | jya: | Anssi: here now |
| [03:16:43] | Anssi: | jya: well, I managed to figure out how to figure out the dts-hd type... I'm preparing a patch to export it in avctx->profile |
| [03:17:26] | Anssi: | also, I just managed to passthrough DTS Express 2.0 track... but I had to hack a hundred things to get that far :p things got more complicated again |
| [03:18:03] | Anssi: | (dts express is a coreless track used for commentary and such on bluray) |
| [03:18:15] | elmojo: | Anssi: btw, nice work on all this! |
| [03:19:28] | Anssi: | elmojo: :) |
| [03:20:34] | jya: | Anssi: awesome... is that before or after muxing ? |
| [03:21:06] | Anssi: | jya: at demux / stream probing time |
| [03:22:58] | jya: | does that mean you can add a dts-hd codec id type? |
| [03:23:13] | jya: | (i'm a tad brainless today, not enough sleep) |
| [03:23:30] | Anssi: | jya: I'd think just having different profiles in avctx->profile is better? |
| [03:23:58] | Anssi: | i.e. DTS_ES, DTS_96_24, DTS-HD_HRA, DTS_HD_MA, DTS_HD_EXPRESS |
| [03:24:01] | jya: | as an ultimate solution it probably is better... |
| [03:24:20] | jya: | just more code for us to modify :) |
| [03:24:37] | jya: | how did you do it ? |
| [03:25:03] | jya: | I thought you had to decode part of the stream first, and with container like mkv not giving you any hint.. |
| [03:26:40] | Anssi: | dts-hd-express seems to have to be passed through at 2*48.. the unfortunate thing is that the commentary tracks (AFAICS) do not have the main audio at all, but expect (according to DTS HD Brochure) the player to mix it in (which is kind of hard if we can't decode the express stream :p) |
| [03:27:59] | Anssi: | jya: well, decoding is not the problem (it is done when probing the stream parameters anyway) |
| [03:28:43] | jya: | Anssi: isn't it the way it works with E-AC3 on HD-DVD? |
| [03:28:58] | Anssi: | jya: no idea |
| [03:29:01] | jya: | you have to get both the AC3 and the E-AC3 track to get the complete lot |
| [03:29:14] | Anssi: | jya: for a commentary, you mean? |
| [03:29:26] | jya: | E-AC3 only contains the surround channels and extra resolution for the AC3 track |
| [03:29:34] | jya: | no, for all E-AC3 |
| [03:29:43] | jya: | that was the difference between hd-dvd and bluray |
| [03:29:59] | jya: | that's from my reading of wikipedia, I don't have such track |
| [03:30:31] | jya: | Anssi: with dts-hd express, how do you pass the two streams together then? |
| [03:30:53] | Anssi: | jya: according to wikipedia the extra surround channel trick on E-AC3 is on bluray, not hd-dvd |
| [03:31:09] | Anssi: | thankfully E-AC3 is not much used, at least AFAIK? |
| [03:31:29] | Anssi: | jya: I don't |
| [03:32:02] | jya: | I guess for the time being, al your work will help in deciding to just discard it :) |
| [03:32:29] | Anssi: | jya: is a commentary track without main audio not better than no commentary track at all? :) |
| [03:33:27] | jya: | that's often how I've been watching some blurays, even here |
| [03:33:34] | jya: | I wonder if it's because they don't support it either |
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| [03:40:20] | ** jya off to work, back online in 30 minutes ** | |
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| [04:13:16] | jya: | Anssi: back... So with your future patch, to determine for example what track it is, it's now just a matter of looking at the codec_id, is codec_id_dts then we also look into the profile to determine the type of dts |
| [04:14:04] | jya: | you have to get this committed in ffmpeg before end of year :) my understanding is that Janne is working on a resync of ffmpeg, don't want to miss out on such important update |
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| [04:17:46] | Anssi: | jya: yes |
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| [04:20:11] | xris: | iamlindoro / wagnerrp: do we have a consistent enough meta data api/format to split TV shows out from other stuff in mythvideo? |
| [04:20:26] | iamlindoro: | Yes, we already have a view for that |
| [04:20:32] | xris: | I'm pondering a consolidated "video" page for mythweb, to mix movies, tv shows, and recordings |
| [04:20:38] | iamlindoro: | MENU->Browse By->TV/Movies |
| [04:20:46] | iamlindoro: | basically if Season or Episode > 0, it's TV |
| [04:20:49] | xris: | ok, so it's marked in the database |
| [04:20:50] | xris: | cool |
| [04:21:45] | iamlindoro: | Obviously that's totally dependent on the user to have scanned it with a valid filename that we can get season/episode information from, but the users seem to be mostly used to that by now |
| [04:21:57] | wagnerrp: | nothing explicit as such, but unless someone starts marking their Star Wars collection with episodes, it should work fine |
| [04:22:15] | wagnerrp: | 'but it says episode 3 on the box' |
| [04:22:50] | iamlindoro: | I am considering, once we have a unified movie and TV database, doing a DB update that marks Tv and movies by their type and splitting them out into discrete libraries |
| [04:23:01] | iamlindoro: | but right now the season/episode rule pretty much works |
| [04:24:10] | xris: | yeah... will need some way to separate unidentified stuff |
| [04:24:24] | xris: | want to be able to pull tvdb stuff into tv shows, too |
| [04:24:34] | xris: | recordings, that is |
| [04:24:45] | xris: | but that might require some db rejiggering |
| [04:25:55] | iamlindoro: | we will need three new fields for recordings, season, episode, and inetref-- I keep meaning to ask Captain_Murdoch and sphery that we make that change as a part of the recordedfile changes coming soon |
| [04:26:27] | iamlindoro: | After that, adding support for metadata lookups to at least grab artwork and other non-SD-provided stuff is ridiculously easy with the new metadata stuff |
| [04:26:33] | xris: | well, we should honestly split stuff out even further... ref for show, and for episode. |
| [04:26:37] | xris: | and possibly for actors |
| [04:26:50] | iamlindoro: | Shows don't have a distinct reference number |
| [04:26:50] | xris: | TMS wants to talk to SD about maybe offering showcard info, too |
| [04:27:02] | iamlindoro: | at least, not at any metadata source they don't |
| [04:27:05] | xris: | shows should — they each have their own decription |
| [04:27:13] | iamlindoro: | thus season and episode number |
| [04:27:15] | xris: | and episodes. |
| [04:27:21] | iamlindoro: | inetref, season, episode |
| [04:27:23] | xris: | tms has a unique id for each thing separately |
| [04:27:38] | iamlindoro: | the three pieces of information needed at all the internet metadata sources to sero in on any of the three levels |
| [04:27:42] | iamlindoro: | er zero |
| [04:28:27] | iamlindoro: | you can add whatever you want for TMS, but it won't be relevant for internet metadata sources-- the above is what I will need |
| [04:28:33] | iamlindoro: | inetref, season, episode |
| [04:28:39] | jya: | Anssi: I'm still curious how you could get this going with a profile, but couldn't have different codec id (not stating we should, just thinking about what the difference is technically) |
| [04:32:18] | iamlindoro: | xris, The new metadata classes also support lookup of all of the above by title and subtitle, too, which is how it will work for recordings-- just need the fields to put the data in so that the actual queries to get data and artwork succeed |
| [04:32:52] | Anssi: | jya: well, I don't think there was any big problem in having different codec ids... but it would've been more inconvenient as ffmpeg would have to probe the codec as well, while currently it only probes the stream parameters |
| [04:33:00] | iamlindoro: | xris, Basically, you create a lookup object and set the title and subtitle, fire it off to the lookup thread, and if there's only one result, it returns a full metadata record for that episode-- if there's more than one, it attempts to do closest-name matching |
| [04:33:12] | xris: | iamlindoro: season and episode aren't unique, either... TMS stores two episode numbers for a number of shows, based on film order and broadcast order (among other possible criteria) |
| [04:33:26] | xris: | iamlindoro: cool |
| [04:33:30] | iamlindoro: | xris, Again, that's fine, but not relevant to internet sources |
| [04:33:37] | xris: | tms is an internet source |
| [04:33:43] | xris: | I'm not talking about the DD feed |
| [04:33:44] | iamlindoro: | it is not equivalent to TVDB/TMDB |
| [04:35:22] | iamlindoro: | Every "open" API source out there uses a reference number for the series or movie, and traditional season and episode number, generally based on air order, to reference things at the show, season, or episode level |
| [04:36:00] | Anssi: | jya: imho a bigger problem with codec ids was that we would've needed several of those to convey all the information, and that existing applications may check for CODEC_ID_DTS... and maybe something else I can't remember right now |
| [04:36:01] | iamlindoro: | If TMS behaves differently, someone will need to write a new class to handle that-- if you want for TVDB/TMDB/etc. to be used by recordings, it will be by the above method |
| [04:36:15] | xris: | anyway, I'm also talking about internal db references... if we have "episode info" and "series info" tables, we can keep those around separately from the current program table.. so if you reencode an episode over to mythvideo you can use the same program_id type field to reference things. |
| [04:36:47] | iamlindoro: | xris, Think you need to catch up on the recordedfil/videofile changes |
| [04:36:50] | wagnerrp: | xris: for that stuff, i would talk to sphery |
| [04:37:03] | iamlindoro: | since the whole point of those changes is to consolidate the common denominators |
| [04:37:07] | xris: | if you're just saying that the unique id for a particular episode is a compound key, that works. |
| [04:37:10] | wagnerrp: | heres the latest schema hes posted... http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/recordedfile_schema.png |
| [04:37:48] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp, heh, that's was out of date for videos-- at least 6–7 months |
| [04:37:59] | iamlindoro: | probably more |
| [04:38:00] | wagnerrp: | figured as much |
| [04:38:09] | jya: | wagnerrp: looks like will need a record for the profile .. |
| [04:38:10] | wagnerrp: | been a while since ive seen any changes for it |
| [04:38:23] | xris: | wagnerrp: ok, that's similar to what I saw before.. but it still seems too tied to the idea of combining series and episode meta data into a single record |
| [04:38:33] | iamlindoro: | stuff I added for .23 is missing |
| [04:39:14] | xris: | anyway, I think that chart is the last I heard of this stuff, which is why I was asking |
| [04:39:26] | jya: | Anssi: is that much of a problem though with application not knowing about other type of dts stream... We can't decode it, at best it's a DTS-core. or maybe an extra parameter that can return "extended" codec id |
| [04:39:40] | xris: | well, also just wanted to know if we had implemented enough of it that I can query the db or an API to identify TV shows stored outside of the recording table |
| [04:40:05] | xris: | the TMS showcard thing is just another unrelated thing — sort of like tvdb on steroids |
| [04:40:10] | iamlindoro: | query the DB for anything in videometadata with a season or episode > 0 |
| [04:40:10] | Anssi: | jya: we can decode it as DTS-core, which an application might not know |
| [04:40:18] | Anssi: | jya: and the extra parameter is called "profile" |
| [04:40:23] | xris: | yeah, you said that already. thanks. :) |
| [04:40:49] | jya: | I'm just looking at things on how to make it easier for existing code to handle the new dts type. Having to look into something else than codec_id to determine the stream, require some not-insignificant change. Right now , most of our function use codec_id as an argument.. will have to add profile (or the whole ctx) |
| [04:41:14] | jya: | Anssi: I mean, should you set a value, then you get extra CODEC_ID_DTSblah |
| [04:41:32] | xris: | yeah, that db schema is out of date, and imho wrong enough if it has duplicate info like title/subtitle |
| [04:41:39] | jya: | so you dont have to look into profile, and can continue using existing code that only differentiate based on codec_id |
| [04:42:18] | xris: | but I got my basic question answered. now to figure out how to organize a UI for this thing |
| [04:45:11] | xris: | I should repost the schema I made for the SD self-host project.... now that it's on indefinite hold because people prefer to delude themselves into thinking mc2xml is legal |
| [04:45:43] | iamlindoro: | What does one have to do with the other? |
| [04:45:48] | iamlindoro: | (I am genuinely asking) |
| [04:46:02] | iamlindoro: | ie, how is SD self hosting affected by MC2XML? |
| [04:46:46] | xris: | SD membership has dropped about 30% in the last year and a half |
| [04:47:01] | iamlindoro: | yeesh |
| [04:47:16] | xris: | we went from having a budget to pay devs to help build the self-host project, to full-on savings mode to hope to stay alive. |
| [04:47:28] | xris: | we're still in the black, so to speak, but won't be next year if the trend continues |
| [04:47:33] | iamlindoro: | Reason enough for setup rewrite to be job one |
| [04:47:40] | iamlindoro: | we'd retain a lot more myth users if setup was dead easy |
| [04:48:10] | xris: | the non-renewing members to write back (far under 1%) talk about difficulty of setup and incompatibility with cable/satellite networks. |
| [04:48:38] | xris: | but too much internet chatter out there is about mc2xml. and TMS can't easily track the guy down across international borders |
| [04:48:48] | iamlindoro: | I think that information would be really useful sent to -developers |
| [04:49:00] | iamlindoro: | It's the first I'd heard of it, and daresay a lot of others wouldn't have known that too |
| [04:49:02] | xris: | very few mythtv users write back |
| [04:49:15] | xris: | most are using other apps |
| [04:49:16] | iamlindoro: | I think hearing that kind of thing would be sobering and encourage some more people to come forward on setup and usability issues |
| [04:49:49] | jya: | iamlindoro: are you involved in libaacs code in any ways? |
| [04:50:00] | iamlindoro: | jya, nah |
| [04:50:11] | xris: | I'd really love to have some usage stats for mythtv. would be nice to know how many users there are in the US vs how many people are using SD |
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| [04:50:31] | jya: | I made a patch last night that check of the volume opened is a symlink , and it follows if required. so you can use /media/cdrom when it's linked to /media/cdrom0 |
| [04:51:04] | iamlindoro: | jya, nice, you should send it to their dev list |
| [04:51:06] | iamlindoro: | let me find it |
| [04:51:12] | iamlindoro: | I'm subscribed but it's super low traffic |
| [04:51:17] | jya: | don't worry, I'll find it |
| [04:51:29] | iamlindoro: | http://mailman.videolan.org/listinfo/libaacs-devel |
| [04:51:42] | jya: | thanks |
| [04:52:00] | xris: | an anon usage stats query would help us get an idea of what hardware people are using, too |
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| [04:52:54] | iamlindoro: | I think that's all rsecondary to communicating to Myth devs that SD is potentially in trouble, and that the oft cited failure to renew is difficulty of use and setup |
| [04:53:01] | xris: | I'm thinking about putting a google analytics tracker (opt-in) into mythweb, too.. to track usage patterns so we can figure out which parts of the app to concentrate on |
| [04:53:03] | iamlindoro: | I think that people knowing that would motivate some |
| [04:53:26] | iamlindoro: | If we fix usability and setup, SD retention and new users will logically increase |
| [04:53:43] | xris: | like I said, the number of responses we get to the "you're leaving!" email is far less than 1%, and *maybe* half of those talk about setup issues. and only some of those are mythtv |
| [04:54:03] | xris: | so out of 4000 people who left, maybe 5 said mythtv was too hard to use. |
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| [04:54:24] | iamlindoro: | sigh |
| [04:54:33] | xris: | of those who write back, most say it's more about interop with their tv provider. |
| [04:54:39] | iamlindoro: | I just don't get why we're not being told this stuff |
| [04:54:45] | xris: | no one asked |
| [04:54:52] | iamlindoro: | didn't think we had to |
| [04:55:12] | xris: | the guy who responds to the SD emails isn't affiliated with mythtv |
| [04:56:30] | xris: | he mentions little things here and there at board meetings, but I think we probably had 4 (monthly) board meetings this year that actually had full attendance |
| [04:56:52] | xris: | we're getting better, though. bringing new life onto the board (like Captain_Murdoch) |
| [04:57:25] | xris: | and we're meeting with TMS in a couple weeks at CES to go over things — and one of their big concerns is dwindling membership... |
| [04:57:44] | xris: | so will see if they're able to incentivize things by adding additional meta data services. |
| [04:58:29] | xris: | like the showcard stuff, or... http://www.tribunemediaservices.com/products- . . . owcards.html |
| [04:58:53] | xris: | we've asked mythtv devs several times over the last few years if any of that would be helpful, but no one really responded |
| [05:00:15] | xris: | imho mythtv devs/users should be wary of the copyright-encumbered stuff from TMS, which is why I'm more interested in building open platforms for stuff... but the showcard stuff is really pretty cool |
| [05:01:05] | iamlindoro: | Showcard stuff is interesting (though most of that show-level data is available for free from TVDB) |
| [05:01:23] | iamlindoro: | including in many cases the in-characte cast images, etc. |
| [05:02:16] | xris: | yeah, that's one reason why it's less interesting these days |
| [05:02:57] | xris: | btw, here's the table schema I had worked up for SD program info: http://pastebin.ca/2026896 |
| [05:03:34] | xris: | tvdb and tmdb are flying under the copyright radar, though... they're both walking a pretty fine line |
| [05:04:30] | wagnerrp: | xris: if you have documentation about the (il)legality of mc2xml, you might want to bring it up with the assorted other PVR programs that mention it on their wiki |
| [05:04:44] | xris: | anyway, the SD data is designed to be compatible with the TMS raw data feed. my original goal was to allow us to override anything incorrect we got from TMS (or allow users to expand on it) |
| [05:04:53] | xris: | wagnerrp: it has been numerous times. |
| [05:04:58] | iamlindoro: | I would like the see the guide itself richened-- the widget itslef right now is just far too primitive to allow rich metadta like show images, etc. |
| [05:05:26] | xris: | at best (given that it's closed source), it's violating the terms of the MS service it downloads from. |
| [05:05:39] | iamlindoro: | Then being able to pull in the show card info/show image/cast/etc. from TMS in the context of the guide would be really cool |
| [05:05:48] | xris: | TMS and MS are both going after mc2xml now |
| [05:07:05] | wagnerrp: | hes got a paypal account, seems like it wouldnt be too difficult |
| [05:07:17] | wagnerrp: | the money has to go somewhere |
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| [05:07:56] | iamlindoro: | And he's canadian, so he's in a country with roughly parallel laws regarding this kind of thing |
| [05:09:09] | iamlindoro: | I still think the answer is not new services, but fixing setup |
| [05:09:20] | xris: | yeah, no idea what they're doing.. they've supposedly shut down his website a couple of times, but he just moves it. |
| [05:09:21] | iamlindoro: | we lose a HUGE number of potential users to our setup process |
| [05:09:29] | xris: | the canadian thing interferes with some jurisdictional stuff |
| [05:09:40] | xris: | setup definitely needs help |
| [05:09:41] | iamlindoro: | I would be shocked in 50% of people who install MythTV finish configuration |
| [05:09:45] | iamlindoro: | er shocked if |
| [05:10:01] | xris: | but setup does no good if users can't actually record TV because their provider is incompatible |
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| [05:10:15] | iamlindoro: | There are no incompatible providers in the USA |
| [05:10:16] | xris: | anyway, mc2xml is still top of the SD list for tribune. |
| [05:10:20] | iamlindoro: | and SD only pertains to the US |
| [05:10:29] | xris: | SD is US, CA, MX |
| [05:10:40] | iamlindoro: | yeah, and you can record every US and canadian provider with Myth |
| [05:10:53] | iamlindoro: | setting mexico aside, since I doubt they're the cause of SD membership woes |
| [05:11:05] | xris: | not easily... many satellite providers require a lot of wonky setup, like IR blasters. |
| [05:11:27] | iamlindoro: | IR Blasters are far from what I'd consider wonky setup |
| [05:11:43] | xris: | yeah, only 11 sd members from MX |
| [05:11:58] | xris: | canada is about 17% of members |
| [05:12:17] | xris: | and mythtv is a little over 82% |
| [05:14:32] | iamlindoro: | Anyway, my pure shooting from the hip estimate is that less than 50% of people make it through just plain myth configuration. It's hard to argue that SD membership could not be increased substantially by removing that barrier to entry |
| [05:15:52] | iamlindoro: | But if we're not all of that same mind I'm not going to spend a bunch of energy dragging the cart uphill-- Just saying that I really, really think the stuff we've discussed here should maybe go to -developers and let people draw their own conclusions about how we might help to change that |
| [05:16:22] | xris: | iamlindoro: no one is arguing that we don't need to fix the setup process. |
| [05:16:29] | iamlindoro: | FWIW I don't think adding more services from TMS is as powerful a hammer as removing the pain of startup |
| [05:16:41] | xris: | the people behind that project asked for a project manager, stuarta volunteered, then everything went dead silent. |
| [05:16:46] | iamlindoro: | xris, I'm not arguing, period, just suggesting an alternate set of priorities |
| [05:16:49] | xris: | those of us not involved in the project just assumed you guys were working on it |
| [05:17:08] | iamlindoro: | xris, Waiting on project management to begin |
| [05:17:37] | xris: | project manager is there to organize, not provide direction. |
| [05:17:55] | xris: | steering committee provided some direction on architecture, but we've basically been ignored. |
| [05:18:10] | wagnerrp: | xris: windows 7 seems to provide full digital lineups through their guide data, no need for scanning |
| [05:18:11] | iamlindoro: | When did the steering committee provide direction on architecture? |
| [05:18:22] | wagnerrp: | is that something we could get from TMS? |
| [05:18:29] | xris: | wagnerrp: yeah, the power of the MS bankroll... |
| [05:18:30] | iamlindoro: | The steering committee has been silent on pretty much all topics |
| [05:19:01] | xris: | iamlindoro: steering committee was set up to resolve disputes and provide direction on developer projects. not tell developers what to work on |
| [05:19:20] | xris: | if we tried to do that, most of the devs would quit |
| [05:19:24] | iamlindoro: | ok, so where's the part where they offered direction on architecture? |
| [05:19:36] | iamlindoro: | Can't have it both ways, I'm just asking |
| [05:19:53] | xris: | you asking about the specific direction we talked about? or just the when? |
| [05:19:59] | iamlindoro: | I'm asking both |
| [05:20:33] | iamlindoro: | Or maybe I'm just having trouble distinguishing when something is being said by Chris Petersen and when something is being said as "the voice of the steering committee" |
| [05:20:46] | iamlindoro: | And this is all just genuine concern/curiosity |
| [05:20:47] | xris: | well, considering it was Captain_Murdoch who was doing most of the talking..... |
| [05:20:56] | iamlindoro: | ok, so can you point me at some of that? |
| [05:21:14] | iamlindoro: | and help me understand how i/we might know in the future when that is the steering committee? |
| [05:21:18] | xris: | discussion several months ago about how to go about architecting the setup (i.e. where it would live).. both chris and I offered advice on how the backend should be split out into more of an API hub.. recording thread should be split out, etc... |
| [05:21:29] | xris: | not sure if any of it is valid anymore, though (except the recording thread bit) |
| [05:21:53] | iamlindoro: | So, and this is a honest question, are we to consider anything said by any of you to be advice/advisory/direction from the steering committee? |
| [05:22:02] | xris: | sure. |
| [05:22:04] | xris: | but it's not law |
| [05:22:13] | iamlindoro: | And if so, how, if at all, does that differ from when you might offer advice as develoeprs pre-steering committee? |
| [05:22:44] | xris: | well, official steering committee requests come from consensus of 2+ of the committee members. |
| [05:22:58] | iamlindoro: | Now I'm hopelessly lost |
| [05:22:58] | xris: | other stuff is just advice |
| [05:23:11] | xris: | you're attributing more power/control than any of us want to have. |
| [05:23:34] | iamlindoro: | Well, you've just got me confused |
| [05:23:37] | xris: | the whole point of the steering commttee was to avoid the problem of a single point of "do this because I/we are in charge? |
| [05:23:41] | xris: | er, ", not ? |
| [05:24:07] | xris: | mythtv is run by developers. everyone works on pet projects, and most of the time people don't step on each others toes. |
| [05:24:08] | iamlindoro: | I say that the commit. has been silent-- and you say they offered advice-- which sounds like the committee offered advice-- but I am not understanding how that differs from those individual devs offerring their two cents |
| [05:24:35] | iamlindoro: | so on one hand you're telling me "the committee" offered advice, and on the other, you're telling me that they aren't there to offer advice |
| [05:24:36] | xris: | the difference is that the other developers said that they would defer to the steering committee on contentuous decisions |
| [05:25:04] | xris: | we're here to offer advice, and hope we're listened to, but the only power we have is what the devs as a whole choose to give us |
| [05:25:36] | iamlindoro: | anyway, I just think it's unfortunate that the promise of a few months ago has mostly fizzled |
| [05:25:51] | xris: | forward direction of mythtv is up to the developers. |
| [05:25:57] | iamlindoro: | And I feel like I step up a lot to try to express the frustration I hear about in PMs, and e-mails, and in private, and get nothing but batted down for it |
| [05:26:10] | iamlindoro: | And it just makes me sad |
| [05:26:18] | xris: | if you want to do a project, then DO it. don't ask someone else to do it for you and then get upset when no one does (I've been asking for things for years with little expectation that they would ever get done) |
| [05:26:19] | iamlindoro: | Because I'm on fumes, here |
| [05:26:26] | iamlindoro: | ok |
| [05:26:42] | iamlindoro: | I'm not expressing myself well, obviously |
| [05:26:52] | iamlindoro: | It's just too bad, for MythTV as a project, I think |
| [05:27:11] | xris: | most of what your asking about the setup project sounds like to the rest of us is "I have this great idea that i think we should do, but I'm not interested in doing it unless someone else tells me what I should do" |
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| [05:27:35] | iamlindoro: | ok |
| [05:27:38] | iamlindoro: | well, too bad |
| [05:27:41] | iamlindoro: | sorry you feel that way |
| [05:27:46] | iamlindoro: | best of luck to you with your projects |
| [05:27:48] | xris: | not just me |
| [05:27:51] | iamlindoro: | ok |
| [05:27:54] | iamlindoro: | thanks |
| [05:27:58] | xris: | just saying that's how it comes off a lot |
| [05:28:02] | iamlindoro: | ok |
| [05:28:12] | xris: | I don't think that's how you feel — just how it looks sometimes. |
| [05:28:20] | iamlindoro: | yeah, too bad, it's a shame |
| [05:28:47] | xris: | then you go and accuse us of ignoring the setup project when we basically gave the goahead to do it, and it got a volunteer project manager. |
| [05:29:43] | iamlindoro: | I think it's really unfortunate that you feel like you have to use such inflammatory language, since there wasn't an accusation |
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| [05:29:53] | iamlindoro: | just an expression of disappontment |
| [05:30:12] | xris: | I think that might have been a time when you were upset at me or someone else for something else... |
| [05:30:15] | iamlindoro: | but ok, if someone needs to be blamed for the setup rewrite not getting done, I'll be happy to take the blame |
| [05:30:17] | iamlindoro: | mea culpa |
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| [05:30:34] | iamlindoro: | hope it eventually gets sorted out. Oh well. |
| [05:30:58] | xris: | a number of people who were pushing for the setup rewrite project assumed that all of the devs would happily rally around the project to get it done... and people like me got annoyed because we have our own projects we want to do. |
| [05:31:21] | iamlindoro: | ok, I look forward to seeing your projects progress. Good luck. |
| [05:31:53] | xris: | or when people talk about writing a brand new http server to host the stuff directly in the backend, with me and kormoc doing the UI for it.. without ever even asking.. (not you — in case you think I'm pointing a finger) |
| [05:32:17] | iamlindoro: | Sorry you feel such frustration. Hope it all gets worked out |
| [05:32:43] | xris: | did you get in touch with stuarta the other day when I pointed out that he had set up a project ticket in jira? |
| [05:33:23] | xris: | I don't even remember because you and him were the big proponents of the project... |
| [05:33:33] | iamlindoro: | I think you are confusing your stuarts |
| [05:33:51] | iamlindoro: | Since it was Stuart M and I who were vocal proponents |
| [05:34:20] | xris: | I may be |
| [05:34:29] | iamlindoro: | anyway, no, I didn't contact him, I mentioned on the list that I was available for any work assigned to or appropriate for me |
| [05:35:07] | xris: | but there's no work unless something is planned... might be worth asking him to get people together to discuss plans. |
| [05:35:14] | iamlindoro: | But the project needs a plan, and in the absence of any plan or design, there in nothing for me to do |
| [05:35:26] | xris: | keep in mind that we've *never* done anything this organized for mythtv... people probably don't really know how to do it. |
| [05:35:31] | iamlindoro: | I don't think I'm going to do that |
| [05:36:24] | xris: | just saying... he offered to be volunteer PM for the project. is probably waiting for the people doing the project to tell him what they expect of him. a bit of a catch-22 if no one wants to make the first move. |
| [05:36:37] | iamlindoro: | yeah, shame |
| [05:37:29] | xris: | but see how it looks to some people? you have this big conversation with me about how much of a shame it is that no progress is being made, but then you won't go and even remind the guy who volunteered to help that you could use his help. |
| [05:37:46] | iamlindoro: | Yeah, too bad about that |
| [05:37:59] | iamlindoro: | I probably would have done differently a month or two ago |
| [05:38:05] | iamlindoro: | but just not where I'm at now |
| [05:38:28] | xris: | and that's why projects fizzle |
| [05:38:47] | xris: | and why it's so difficult for some of the more old-time devs to get behind big project ideas. |
| [05:38:53] | iamlindoro: | It's a bit of a misrepresentation to say that this was a big conversation bemoaning no progress being made-- In fact, I was trying to gently suggest that you share your data |
| [05:39:07] | xris: | what data? |
| [05:39:16] | iamlindoro: | All of what you shared regarding Schedules Direct |
| [05:39:22] | iamlindoro: | all of which came as a surprise |
| [05:39:27] | xris: | I did. |
| [05:39:39] | iamlindoro: | did what? |
| [05:39:42] | xris: | like I said — the guy who collects it isn't affiliated with mythtv |
| [05:39:59] | iamlindoro: | You've lost me |
| [05:40:20] | iamlindoro: | You shared some specific information with us tonight, I'm saying that that information would be really useful on the developers list |
| [05:40:37] | iamlindoro: | I don't recall ever seeing anything about SD being in trouble, or retention issues, or anything else |
| [05:40:43] | iamlindoro: | If I missed it that's on me |
| [05:40:55] | iamlindoro: | But if it's the first I've heard, it might be the first that other people have heard too |
| [05:41:09] | xris: | it has probably never been brought up as directly as that |
| [05:41:19] | iamlindoro: | and in the back of my mind, my hope was that that might put a little spark on the priorities of some people so that we could rally and get some issues resolved |
| [05:41:43] | xris: | but you have to keep in mind that those of us involved with SD intentionally keep it and myth stuff separate |
| [05:41:49] | iamlindoro: | And I think you and I differ on whether setup has a higher priority than adding more value-adds, which is totally okay |
| [05:42:56] | xris: | daniel, chris, isaac, and I have probably mentioned retention issues in passing, but never thought much about how it might relate directly to mythtv. |
| [05:43:12] | xris: | usability has *long* been a problem with mythtv... so none of this is news to us. |
| [05:43:15] | iamlindoro: | But I have driven the last couple of releases as hard as I could, as well as a number of other big projects-- I'm sincerely glad that you've had other things keeping you happy and interested outside of myth, and completely get that-- but I think it's fair to ask for some understanding of my perspective, which is the death by a thousand cuts of the last year or two |
| [05:43:35] | xris: | and when you're talking about 0.01% of users complaining about usability, it's not exactly a reliable statistic. |
| [05:43:41] | iamlindoro: | I think it's fair for me to say, "Use me as a resource, but please don't make me the one that responsibility falls on to get this thing done" |
| [05:44:22] | xris: | the problem with mythtv is that everyone feels that way. |
| [05:44:25] | iamlindoro: | I tried to gently express that in the setup rewrite thread, which was followed by Stuart saying he'd PM-- but that doesn't immediately imbue me with the desire or responsibility to follow Stuart around asking him to do each step |
| [05:44:56] | iamlindoro: | I'm still the guy who has been battered about, necessarily, in the furtherance of getting things like the last two releases, or the theming contest, or whatever, done |
| [05:45:22] | iamlindoro: | I understand that the person cracking the whip is the least popular, and for the time that I was able to do it, I am glad-- but I just can't do it any more right now |
| [05:45:50] | xris: | you can't crack the whip and not expect people to want you to be in charge. |
| [05:45:51] | iamlindoro: | I'm proud of, and glad for, the progress we've made in the last two years, and I daresay I take a certain amount of pride in the number of things we've turned around-- I just need someone else to drive for a teensy bit |
| [05:46:44] | xris: | or let mythtv drive itself like it has for years. |
| [05:47:05] | iamlindoro: | And if wanting badly to give 100% of my effort, just not in a role that it is draining and saddening to play, it means that it's my fault that goals don't get met, that's something I just need to be okay with |
| [05:47:11] | xris: | and for the first time, devs have some flexibility not granted by our previous,... fearless leader... |
| [05:47:18] | iamlindoro: | mythtv driving itself was an unmitigated disaster |
| [05:47:27] | iamlindoro: | (my opinion only) |
| [05:47:35] | xris: | may be. |
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| [05:48:15] | xris: | but those of us who have been doing this and other software development and product management for years know that sometimes you just have to go through some growing pains when you make a big change. |
| [05:48:34] | iamlindoro: | But Myth was pretty hopelessly stagnant a year or two ago-- I really hope everyone can see how much things have improved since then-- but there's a long way left to go and I would just really like to apply my energies with people, rather than dragging them, for a bit |
| [05:48:53] | xris: | well.. given that the primary committers all had kids about that time.... |
| [05:49:17] | xris: | not to mention a HUGE family tragedy for one of them |
| [05:49:41] | xris: | then people like you and mark show up, an get a bunch of work done.... |
| [05:50:36] | xris: | it's not like this is an organization with managers and bosses who can hire/fire people.. we take what we can get. |
| [05:51:09] | xris: | Thor hasn't committed a line of code for half a decade, but he still pays attention to the -developers list, and cares about the project. |
| [05:52:38] | xris: | for most of us, this is a fun thing to work on. when people try to assign schedules and projects, it stops being fun, and that makes people not want to work on the project. |
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| [05:56:17] | xris: | oops |
| [05:56:41] | xris: | why doesn't the OS focus on the window I *want* to close, not the one that had focus 2 seconds ago? |
| [06:06:38] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [06:17:03] | xris: | hmm... TV => [series, movies, specials], Video => [series, movies, other, uncategorized] |
| [06:18:56] | xris: | s/uncategorized/unidentified/ |
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| [09:14:33] | jya: | janne: I have an issue now where we use a ffmpeg muxer to encapsulate data in a iec958 stream |
| [09:15:03] | jya: | so it requires to call av_regiter_all before calling it. |
| [09:15:39] | jya: | I thought of adding av_register_all in the spdif muxer creation, but it's not 100% thread-safe (pretty close though) |
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| [09:16:09] | jya: | in the unlikely scenario av_register_all is called at the same time in say the audio creation, and avfd .. |
| [09:16:36] | jya: | so can we add a QLock in av_register_all ? or is that a no go ? |
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| [09:24:42] | jya: | janneg: or wrap avfd in a class, that will properly lock it.. that would be the cleanest |
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| [09:38:49] | markk: | jya, jannau: av_register_all is not just called from avfd – e.g. streamingringbuffer, mythmusic, mytharchive |
| [09:39:26] | jya: | markk: I know.. it's mythmusic I'm looking at right now |
| [09:40:01] | jya: | it calls av_register_all in a few place |
| [09:40:07] | jya: | just not when I need it :) |
| [09:42:12] | jya: | this revealed plenty of other issues in mythmusic, it never checks that the audio device actually did open |
| [09:42:42] | jya: | so it happily feeds it stuff, even if this failed.. that cause plenty of crashes, division by zero, buffer overflow etc that I had never considered |
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| [10:21:12] | stuartm: | Anssi, jya: If you can solve the problem of decoding and overlaying commentary tracks over the main audio you will make a lot of people in the UK very happy indeed, UK DVB features an 'audio description' stream for many programmes which describes on-screen events for the blind |
| [10:22:19] | stuartm: | Anssi: btw, nice to have you over our way :) |
| [10:22:20] | jya: | stuartm: the problem we were discussing earlier was in regards to passthrough. it would have to be done at the ffmpeg level |
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| [10:22:32] | jya: | stuartm: I got him to install mythtv :) |
| [10:23:08] | stuartm: | jya: ahh, yeah I was skimming over the log and missed that bit |
| [10:24:19] | jya: | as for decoding two streams and combining them together... from the audio side of things it's not too complicated... decoding the two audio streams and make for the timestamp to be the same, is more ... challenging |
| [10:25:06] | stuartm: | jya: I know Anssi from #mandriva-cooker and his work on Mandriva, he probably doesn't remember me though, especially as I keep switching between the 'gbee' and 'stuartm' nicknames |
| [10:26:05] | jya: | i see... All I know is whatever projects I look at (ffmpeg, mplayer, alsa ..) seems he does it all :) |
| [10:26:15] | stuartm: | jya: I don't know what tolerance the spec allows for in synchronising the AD track |
| [10:26:47] | jya: | if the tracks are of similar characterisks, like same sampling rate, same format |
| [10:26:52] | stuartm: | jya: yeah he's very busy :) |
| [10:26:58] | jya: | I guess that's not too much trouble... |
| [10:27:04] | jya: | would you have some samples of those ? |
| [10:27:45] | stuartm: | jya: normally same codec and sample rate iirc, but mono vs multi-channel |
| [10:27:49] | jya: | if different sampling rate, size etc... then it becomes challenging to have good sync between the 2 |
| [10:28:14] | stuartm: | jya: I can get some samples, easier if I record them specifically for the purpose |
| [10:28:20] | jya: | ok |
| [10:28:42] | jya: | i can have a look... still working on the audio config and HD side of things. |
| [10:29:08] | jya: | then I want to do that search ABC bit |
| [10:29:19] | jya: | so annoying to have to scroll through the recordings |
| [10:30:22] | stuartm: | no hurry and if you don't want to work on it that's fine, we've gone for years without supporting those tracks now |
| [10:30:49] | stuartm: | it's just one of the few things a STB has over MythTV |
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| [10:33:10] | jya: | stuartm: problem is that it's like the QWidget settings vs MythUI |
| [10:33:25] | jya: | to do things properly, and something easier to maintain in the future |
| [10:33:35] | stuartm: | yeah |
| [10:33:39] | jya: | best would be a complete revamp of avformatdecoder.cpp |
| [10:33:48] | jya: | that's scary |
| [10:34:01] | jya: | once you start, you're never done |
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| [10:46:15] | dekarl1: | xris, iamlindoro: If you're heading toward something like TVBrainz (think musicbrainz for series, movies) count me in. I take it that tv_grab_na_dd offers data for MX, too? |
| [10:47:08] | xris: | SD/TMS provides rudimentary data for MX |
| [10:47:18] | dekarl1 is now known as dekarl | |
| [10:47:31] | stuartm: | if you're creating something like musicbrainz, just make sure to create a better website, musicbrainz is a mess, difficult to navigate etc |
| [10:47:44] | xris: | not really talking about anything like that |
| [10:47:52] | xris: | more about how to store all of that info inside of mythtv itself |
| [10:48:04] | dekarl: | xris: so I'll put in on the countries list for SD, as MX is not handled anywhere else as far as i know |
| [10:48:47] | xris: | the SD self-host project would have eventually provided a way for users to post extra info about shows... but thetvdb sort of fills that role already (albeit for profit) |
| [10:53:21] | ** xris goes to sleep... 3 AM seems early enough. blech. ** | |
| [10:56:04] | dekarl: | stuartm: I find the musicbrainz site quite ok (from an editing point of view) especially if I compare it to the tv related metadata site mess. But no worries, I'm not into creating such a beast alone ;) |
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| [11:02:00] | jannau: | jya: no go, we have a mutex for that |
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| [11:07:29] | jya: | jannau: do we? how can I use it then ? |
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| [11:11:53] | paul-h: | Are spaces allowed in hostnames? |
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| [11:15:39] | jannau: | paul-h: I don't think so |
| [11:16:04] | jannau: | jya: I think avcodeclock, I'm currently away from sources |
| [11:16:47] | jya: | I know that there's a mutex used in avformatdecoder.cpp and other libmythtv places |
| [11:17:04] | jya: | but this isn't any useful for mythmusic for example |
| [11:17:31] | jannau: | I don't think it is in libmythtv |
| [11:18:31] | jya: | yeah, it's in mythcorecontext |
| [11:18:54] | jannau: | if it is we should change all our code to av_lock_mngr |
| [11:19:00] | jya: | good, need to ensure the various plugin make use of it now |
| [11:20:06] | jannau: | jya: might be easier to make sure the frontend calls av_regitster_all before plugin init and remove it from the plugins |
| [11:20:56] | jya: | yeah , I had thought about it, but as it wasn't done that way, and that usually ther's always a good hidden reason... |
| [11:25:16] | jannau: | it's a little bit hacky |
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| [12:01:42] | jya: | jannau: what calls to libav* requires to hold the lock ? |
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| [12:29:44] | jannau: | jya: ask me something simpler, av_register_all |
| [12:30:04] | jannau: | te locking in libmythtv is overly cautious |
| [12:30:08] | jannau: | the |
| [12:30:33] | jya: | looking at av_register_all it retuns within 2 instructions.. so racing condition is likely to never hapen ever.. |
| [12:30:37] | jya: | but just in case ... |
| [12:31:07] | jya: | if (initialized) return; |
| [12:31:07] | jya: | initialized = 1; |
| [12:32:00] | jannau: | that looks unsafe |
| [12:32:18] | jya: | initialized being a static.. I just wanted to do things right, |
| [12:33:57] | jya: | jannau: have a doubt now ... that's what av_register_all does.. not my thing.. |
| [12:34:59] | ** jya bbl ** | |
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| [13:04:26] | davidjw: | stuartm, jya: AD in the UK will always be mono, mpeg 1 layer 2 at the same sample rate as the main audio (see ETSI TS 101 154 for stream characteristics) |
| [13:04:35] | stuarta: | stuartm: you around |
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| [13:06:08] | stuartm: | stuarta: yeah, I'm around |
| [13:06:14] | stuartm: | davidjw: thank you |
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| [13:28:15] | stuarta: | are there any channels we don't own apart from -users and -dev that we want control of? |
| [13:39:35] | jya: | anyone with a fast float -> S24_3LE (24 bits int using 3 bytes) conversion routine? |
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| [14:13:52] | stuartm: | jya: just gives MythTV as an entity control of our IRC channels rather that them being owned by individuals who may or may not be developers or active, a fringe benefit is that we can get official hostname cloaks which mark out people as being officially associated with the project e.g. as a user/other you know who are talking to |
| [14:14:32] | jya: | how could we have lived without it for so long ?? :P |
| [14:15:58] | jya: | who was owning mythtv-users and mythtv here before then? |
| [14:16:19] | stuartm: | in the case of -users we were unable to change certain configuration options because the 'founder' was no longer an active member of the community, we had to get official group status to claim the channel back |
| [14:16:50] | jya: | so are we going finally rename mythtv into mythtv-dev then ? |
| [14:17:07] | stuartm: | jya: #mythtv is owned by Isaac, or was, -users was owned by Oscar who contributed Swedish translations etc a few years ago |
| [14:17:44] | stuartm: | jya: unlikely, there's a strong resistance to moving |
| [14:18:31] | jya: | why? this to me has been the biggest inconsistency in the mythtv project? and the actual proof that only developers can participate to mythtv ! :) |
| [14:18:46] | stuartm: | something about not appearing to cave in to the dozens of users who constantly moaned about having to use -users |
| [14:19:07] | stuartm: | jya: the other projects are the ones who are inconsistent ;) |
| [14:19:55] | stuartm: | I'm not going to get into this argument again, we tried moving to -dev, it failed |
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| [14:21:03] | jya: | how long ago was that? it's like referendum about becoming a republic.. it ffails a few times, then ultimately, people see the truth |
| [14:32:56] | danielk22: | jya: IIRC about a year ago. If it were brought up on the mythtv-dev and people were given time to air their grievances it could be done. I think the main objection was that it was done without consulting with Isaac, who was the owner of this channel. |
| [14:33:40] | jya: | but that's not the case anymore.. |
| [14:33:46] | jya: | or is it? |
| [14:34:26] | danielk22: | jya: I thought he knew since there was talk about it here for a few days beforehand, but he'd just been logged in and hadn't caught up with his backlog. |
| [14:37:50] | danielk22: | jya: He's not the owner of the channel, but I still do give his advice extra gravitas. |
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| [14:40:11] | stuarta: | from a freenode point of view he still "owns" this channel |
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| [14:43:14] | stuarta: | but we have now regained control of #mythtv-dev and #mythtv-users |
| [14:43:26] | stuarta: | (not that we ever lost -users, just o_cee) |
| [14:45:22] | stuartm: | I can't remember what we were going to change on -users ... |
| [14:45:41] | stuarta: | nothing, it just gave us priority for our GRF |
| [14:45:49] | jya: | well, we can now all move to mythtv-dev :) and keep #mythtv |
| [14:46:13] | stuartm: | stuarta: well there was some reason I noticed we didn't have control in the first place and it had something to do with the settings/flags on that channel |
| [14:46:17] | stuarta: | well off you go and propose it on the dev list.... |
| [14:46:18] | jya: | I got kicked out ! |
| [14:46:24] | stuarta: | hahaha |
| [14:46:30] | stuarta: | it's set to invite only |
| [14:46:39] | jya: | "You were kicked from the chat room by ChanServ. (Invite only channel)" |
| [14:46:39] | stuarta: | you can get in if you know how |
| [14:46:52] | stuarta: | well ask it to invite you |
| [14:47:06] | danielk22: | My preference would be #mythtv-dev and #mythtv-users channels with this channel just containing a bot directing people to the appropriate channel. That would reduce the number of drop ins. (with no invites required of course :) |
| [14:47:36] | jya: | you know me and IRC ... until a few months ago I was wondering why anyone would want to use such a primitive communication medium.. |
| [14:47:37] | stuarta: | yeah, i've only set it invite only to stop people lurking in there unneccessarily |
| [14:48:06] | stuarta: | if someone wants to take the suggestion up with the private -dev list feel free |
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| [14:48:31] | jya: | what's wrong with people lurking ? you can learn heaps doing those.. |
| [14:49:26] | stuarta: | in an empty channel? |
| [14:49:35] | jya: | currently empty |
| [14:49:44] | stuarta: | mainly was to keep out the original owner until we regained control |
| [14:49:53] | jya: | oh, I read like you made it invite only for forever |
| [14:49:55] | stuarta: | primitive mechanism i know |
| [14:50:18] | stuarta: | no, simple to change, i've just got chanserv enforcing the invite atm |
| [14:50:41] | jya: | can;t invite myself... googlinge for more |
| [14:51:33] | stuartm: | it's our super-secret clubhouse |
| [14:57:20] | stuarta: | jya: tip, ask the nick that told you it was invite only |
| [14:58:34] | jya: | bah.. will try another day.. |
| [14:58:38] | jya: | it's late anyway |
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| [15:09:19] | jya: | this is awesome this mythfe message |
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| [15:09:54] | jya: | how to annoy people :) |
| [15:32:47] | jya: | stuartm: I think i've found why some plugins didn't compile... I had some include/libavformat header file from a previous install |
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| [17:01:54] | iamlindoro: | Straw poll, does anyone here NOT have libxml2 installed? |
| [17:02:24] | iamlindoro: | Next updates to libmythbluray require it, for metadata parsing |
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| [17:05:35] | iamlindoro: | bah, will just make configure check for it-- will compile without, will just lose disc metadata parsing |
| [17:05:38] | jams: | iamlindoro- i think it's less about libxml2 and more about which version of libxml2 |
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| [17:06:01] | iamlindoro: | 2.6+ |
| [17:06:51] | jams: | should be fine. 2.6 is included with sles9 and thats 7ish years old |
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| [17:08:59] | jams: | so yeah the build date is 2004 |
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| [17:22:25] | danielk22: | jya: you wanted docs on your repo/branch auto-generated? What branch? newaudiosetup? |
| [17:29:14] | danielk22: | jya: http://www.cuymedia.net/mythtv-jya/ this is updated daily 9am EST, off the newaudiosetup branch. Let me know if you want a different branch. |
| [17:31:03] | danielk22: | Everyone else.. cuymedia.net is now generating doxygen docs for the latest trunk daily and for 0.24 weekly. (It was still generating docs using svn since the switchover.) |
| [17:34:59] | stuarta: | i should fix mine too |
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| [17:36:32] | danielk22: | stuarta: you want my script? |
| [17:37:04] | stuarta: | sure why not. at least that way we'll be consistent :) |
| [17:37:12] | stuarta: | can you email it please? |
| [17:37:21] | danielk22: | sure |
| [17:37:39] | stuarta: | maybe stuartm too as he's the 3rd site |
| [17:38:27] | danielk22: | why don't I just add a link to it from the cuymedia.net homepage.. |
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| [17:40:29] | stuartm: | danielk22: I'll restore the link on trac then, I temporarily disabled it while you were still building from SVN as it was causing confusion |
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| [17:41:42] | stuartm: | danielk22: I think the plan was to get the docs built/hosted on mythtv.org now we're migrating to the updated server |
| [17:41:54] | stuartm: | having mirrors is still a good idea |
| [17:43:31] | stuartm: | Beirdo, xris: ^^ |
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| [17:44:09] | stuarta: | i'd even happily do a www.mythtv.org mirror |
| [17:48:03] | danielk22: | stuarta: stuartm: a link to the script has been added... |
| [17:49:06] | danielk22: | I think hosting the docs on mythtv.org is a good idea. It was just underpowered for so long... |
| [17:50:55] | stuartm: | it should be plenty powerful now and if not then we can setup a script to build off-site and upload |
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| [17:51:53] | stuartm: | danielk22: might the script be a good thing to store in the 'extras' repo? It's where we're now storing similar scripts |
| [17:52:20] | danielk22: | stuartm: I'm not so worried about the script to build the docs.. more with whether it can cope with crawlers & the php search. |
| [17:53:28] | stuartm: | ah, well I'm pretty sure it should be able to cope with that, it's much lower traffic than the wiki/trac and those aren't creating a high load |
| [17:54:14] | danielk22: | Nah, the script is pretty specific to _hosting_ docs.. generating them for local use is just a matter of typing "make devdocs" |
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| [17:56:06] | stuartm: | danielk22: right, the extras repo holds the stuff that is generally of specific interest to MythTV devs, e.g. the plugins for the trac install, the scripts used to create releases or the mythtv logos for use on the website |
| [17:57:35] | stuartm: | danielk22: can you re-add me to the admin list for MythTV on linkedin? I accidentally left myself off the list when I created the entry – http://www.linkedin.com/company/1609024 |
| [18:02:30] | danielk22: | stuartm: How do I do that? |
| [18:02:59] | danielk22: | nm: done |
| [18:03:20] | stuartm: | thanks |
| [18:03:28] | stuartm: | bad ui design :) |
| [18:05:03] | stuartm: | hmm, still not listing me as an admin or allowing me access to the admin interface |
| [18:09:23] | wagnerrp: | amazing... ive never even used my mythtv.org email and im getting spam on it |
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| [18:10:20] | wagnerrp: | did they just send it to everyone on github? |
| [18:10:24] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: they are scraping github |
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| [18:30:57] | elmojo: | stuartm: do you experience this problem -> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/462093 |
| [18:31:25] | elmojo: | you would think a valid position map wouldn't exhibit the described behaviour |
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| [18:50:14] | stuartm: | elmojo: almost, but not quite, I still see the problem with BBC HD/One HD that I reported weeks ago, e.g. that seeking seems to think we're at a different position in the recording, so it appears to jump forward several minutes even when you are trying to jump back a minute, the bookmark gets set at the wrong position etc |
| [18:50:38] | stuartm: | the recording length hasn't been noticeably wrong ... but maybe I've just not noticed |
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| [18:51:01] | stuartm: | it's as though the seektable is correct, but the internal frame count doesn't match up |
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| [18:53:34] | stuartm: | elmojo: I don't know if the position map is wrong or simply our frame counting during playback, I gave up trying to debug this issue a while back |
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| [18:54:16] | stuartm: | I do see a lot of the behaviour described in that thread, I just haven't noticed the recording length bit |
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| [19:04:01] | danielk22: | FYI The cuymedia.org filtered and unfiltered warning lists are being update from git now. |
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| [19:19:59] | stuartm: | fyi I've added an Ohloh widget and LinkedIn button to the trac front page |
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| [19:21:15] | stuartm: | xris: any thoughts on adding one of these to the footer on the main site? http://www.ohloh.net/p/mythtv/widgets |
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| [19:30:24] | stuartm: | xris: maybe not, seems like it could be confusing appearing alongside the sponsor logos |
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| [19:39:08] | iamlindoro: | stuartm, I should have disc metadata parsing stuff coming a little later today-- not the menu changes, but enough to get info about which disc number of a set you are playing, title of the disc, etc. |
| [19:39:25] | stuartm: | cool |
| [19:39:38] | iamlindoro: | obviously that only pertains to discs where the metadata is present |
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| [19:39:53] | iamlindoro: | Down the road chapter names should become available too |
| [19:40:06] | iamlindoro: | (where present) |
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| [19:49:28] | iamlindoro: | stuartm, http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/2027496 |
| [19:49:33] | iamlindoro: | ok, not perfect, but an ok start |
| [19:50:24] | iamlindoro: | oh, heh, the junk character is actually a "tm" |
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| [19:51:02] | iamlindoro: | ooh... the title names are in here |
| [19:51:15] | stuartm: | shame there are no title descriptors |
| [19:51:41] | iamlindoro: | There are :) !!! |
| [19:52:09] | stuartm: | really?! |
| [19:52:18] | stuartm: | don't toy with me ! ;) |
| [19:52:50] | stuartm: | it would really make the title selection menu useful |
| [19:55:04] | iamlindoro: | This discs title names aren't particularly useful, so I'm not sure it's of any value yet |
| [19:55:09] | iamlindoro: | But I have things like |
| [19:55:10] | iamlindoro: | <di:titleName titleNumber="122">SP Warning Script ENG A</di:titleName> |
| [19:55:46] | stuartm: | hmm, well still better than 'Title 122' |
| [19:56:19] | iamlindoro: | Unfortunately for the episodes themselves on this disc, they're not particularly descriptive-- but I think that may be the blame of the mastering company |
| [19:56:44] | iamlindoro: | Since they presume the HDMV VM will be running the thing, I'm sure they mostly ignore the title metadata, since it's mostly for internal use |
| [19:56:54] | iamlindoro: | But still, a step up, as you say |
| [19:57:45] | iamlindoro: | Can blame Stupid ABC for calling disc three "1 of 1," too, I checked the XML |
| [19:58:22] | iamlindoro: | have access to the thumbnail now, too, could use that to populate the OSD in the short term and work on the menu stuff in the long term |
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| [20:27:26] | ChanServ!ChanServ@services. changes topic to MythTV development channel. For user support, please /join #mythtv-users. Use http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/. #mythtv-commits to monitor commits. This channel is logged. | |
| [20:42:47] | elmojo: | stuartm: the only explanation I can think of is that mythcommflag and mythplayer don't agree on something |
| [20:43:10] | elmojo: | is it interlaced material? |
| [20:44:45] | stuartm: | yes |
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| [20:54:47] | elmojo: | stuartm: oh great, might another issue with H264PreProcessPkt in avformatdecoder.cpp |
| [20:55:00] | elmojo: | the on_frame detection has had issues in the past |
| [20:57:05] | elmojo: | if you are adventurous you could change H264PreProcessPkt to always return true and see if it helps any |
| [21:29:23] | stuartm: | elmojo: I'll try to find the time |
| [21:38:59] | elmojo: | stuartm: it's just a very wild guess at this point |
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| [22:21:11] | abqjp: | elmojo: anything else I can do to help you with #7964 |
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| [22:58:05] | elmojo: | abqjp: could you babysit for me one night? |
| [22:58:20] | elmojo: | that would help immensely |
| [22:58:46] | abqjp: | Sure ;-) I don't have any kids myself, so I am pretty good at getting other peoples kids into trouble! |
| [22:58:50] | elmojo: | it's my next project to work on and I hope to have time next week while on vacation |
| [22:59:22] | elmojo: | hehe... I'll probably want some testing when I get some changes ready |
| [22:59:34] | elmojo: | btw... I just signed up for DirecTV today |
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| [23:00:00] | abqjp: | Anything I can do to help. I actually use trunk in production.... |
| [23:00:15] | abqjp: | So, that means you will be getting a HD-PVR? |
| [23:00:35] | elmojo: | you are a brave man... my family members prevent me from taking such risks :) |
| [23:00:55] | elmojo: | yes, I plan on getting an HD-PVR (going to move to -users) |
| [23:06:10] | elmojo: | abqjp: my goal for #7964 is to do a refactor that will allow hopefully us to be able enable the feature with a #define... I want it clean... that code is hard to follow/debug sometimes so less complexity is a priority with it |
| [23:06:33] | abqjp: | Good plan. |
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