| Tuesday, May 11th, 2010, 00:20 UTC | ||
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| [00:28:41] | ** iamlindoro gulps for anyone on a less powerful system http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/24532/ ** | |
| [01:06:55] | iamlindoro: | gbutters, Don't know if you are subscribed to dev, but there's someone who doesn't like the wrapping behavior of your recording list, don't know if or whether you want to make changes based on that, but it's there for you to read if you like |
| [01:18:08] | sphery: | gbutters: http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010-May/288500.html , I think he means |
| [01:18:41] | iamlindoro: | I'm glad I have sphery around to translate for me :) |
| [01:18:47] | iamlindoro: | (and I mean that seriously) |
| [01:19:02] | sphery: | :) |
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| [11:51:37] | k-man: | ok, i have made a fix to MythCenter, so i can actually read the recording rule in the schedule recordings screen |
| [11:51:48] | k-man: | how do i submit a patch? |
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| [13:08:03] | mrand: | k-man: preferred method is to do an svn diff (i.e., a unified diff created with -u option, for example "diff -Nau original.file new.file"). Then attach that to a ticket. |
| [13:08:23] | mrand: | the i.e. was meant as an alternative... svn diff, or doing that. |
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| [13:11:44] | stuartm: | k-man: svn.mythtv.org |
| [13:11:54] | stuartm: | TicketHowTo |
| [13:12:54] | stuartm: | http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/TicketHowTo |
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| [13:42:53] | k-man: | stuartm: thanks, i got the trunk version of the theme that I was trying to fix and the problem was resolved as the fonts are now smaller in trunk |
| [13:42:59] | k-man: | so the dialogue fits |
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| [18:32:33] | paul-h: | gbee: The button lists used for the menus and mythnews in MythCenter look really odd. r24553 possibly? |
| [18:33:43] | ** iamlindoro is a little sad that none of the MythTV devs seem to want to move off of the legacy themes ** | |
| [18:33:46] | iamlindoro: | :) |
| [18:38:08] | stuartm: | first one to spot the error ... |
| [18:39:41] | paul-h: | iamlindoro: You've done well to complete most of Arclight but even that one isn't finished, as for the other 'official' themes they are no where near complete |
| [18:40:07] | iamlindoro: | paul-h: The only thing I am aware of not finished in Arclight is a couple screens of MythArchive |
| [18:40:15] | iamlindoro: | Which is by far the most complete theme in all of Myth |
| [18:40:21] | iamlindoro: | and default doesn't count ;) |
| [18:40:35] | paul-h: | stuartm: you can't reproduce it |
| [18:40:39] | iamlindoro: | And if I could even find the screens in MythArchive, I might theme those :) |
| [18:40:55] | stuartm: | paul-h: I can, I just can't see why it's happening |
| [18:41:57] | paul-h: | iamlindoro: did you do MythZoneMinder? I must have missed that one |
| [18:42:01] | stuartm: | the buttons are matching the list size, which is probably related to my switching them to % values, but that doesn't quite explain the mechanism |
| [18:42:14] | iamlindoro: | paul-h: Ah, I guess that's true too-- I can't even make MythZoneminder run |
| [18:44:04] | iamlindoro: | I think I tried to blind-theme it once but the multiple views within a single window thing confused the heck out of me |
| [18:44:27] | iamlindoro: | Still, that's two screens falling back to default-- MythCenter is dozens and dozens |
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| [18:47:06] | stuartm: | paul-h: I have a fix, but I think it exposed a bug that I should fix |
| [18:49:21] | iamlindoro: | Anyway, just doesn't particularly motivate one to churn out new themes since even the Myth devs only want the same crusty old stuff |
| [18:54:04] | stuartm: | I started work to complete Terra the other night, but I'd hardly say I'm enthusiastic |
| [18:54:55] | wagnerrp: | you should try for UPS sponsorship |
| [18:56:56] | stuartm: | heh, yeah, probably my only option after the Canonical deal fell through, something about going purple |
| [19:01:13] | iamlindoro: | Maybe I can get a deal with Fedora for Arclight... |
| [19:01:17] | iamlindoro: | s/Fedora/Red Hat/ |
| [19:01:54] | iamlindoro: | They seem to dig blue |
| [19:07:18] | wagnerrp: | SuSe has a big blue background as their default |
| [19:07:41] | wagnerrp: | and i can attest that at 7680x1600, it is VERY pixellated |
| [19:07:55] | wagnerrp: | you would fit right in... :) |
| [19:08:15] | iamlindoro: | hooray |
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| [19:15:47] | mrand: | lol. New themes via Google summer of code project? |
| [19:16:41] | iamlindoro: | Me almost suggested we get involved in GSoC this year |
| [19:16:43] | iamlindoro: | er /me |
| [19:17:03] | iamlindoro: | But I know that the past experience was poor and it would have been vetoed immediately |
| [19:17:21] | iamlindoro: | Which is a shame, I think it could work with proper vetting and setting manageable goals |
| [19:18:05] | iamlindoro: | A new plugin, significant enhancements to an existing one, some core functionality-- I think expecting someone to make Myth multi-user was a little unrealistic |
| [19:18:20] | mrand: | Completely. |
| [19:18:55] | mrand: | Themes are a completely different animal though – I think that might be a low-impact way to trail GSoC again. |
| [19:19:08] | mrand: | trial |
| [19:19:19] | iamlindoro: | I don't think a theme would be an acceptable GSoC project |
| [19:19:28] | mrand: | ah. |
| [19:19:43] | iamlindoro: | I don't thnk google would go for it, and personally I don't think it would be something one of us would want to mentor-- a lot of work for little if any reward |
| [19:20:31] | iamlindoro: | Now setting out a dozen or so UI/GL effects to add to MythUI, I think that would have been an acceptable and reasonable project size |
| [19:20:40] | mrand: | to a new MNV grabber would qualify though, right? |
| [19:20:46] | iamlindoro: | heh, correct |
| [19:21:05] | iamlindoro: | We just added five from RDV_Linux, what do we need college students for? ;) |
| [19:35:30] | Captain_Murdoch: | gotta be a decent sized project to be worth the $4500 or whatever it is they get paid for completion. it's not a side-job for a few hours a week, it's like an internship. no one expected full multi-user support, just a good start. I don't think parallelizing mythcommflag's processing was that hard for a ~2 month project either. most people just fell on their face and some were never heard from again shortly after the su |
| [19:35:30] | Captain_Murdoch: | mmer started. |
| [19:36:22] | ** Captain_Murdoch still wears his mentor T-shirt occasionally contrary to the rule that you shouldn't wear old t-shirts with dates on them since it shows their age. ** | |
| [19:45:42] | iamlindoro: | Heh |
| [19:46:04] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch: I think that some failed projects are probably par for the course-- but that's not to say that it couldn't be tried again with success |
| [19:46:57] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch: I think that multi-user support only expecting a good start is a poorly defined set of specifications :) (My opinion only, and I acknolwedge I wasn't there at the time) |
| [19:48:01] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch: But more than anything I'm just seeking opportunities to re-engage and try to reform our image as a project before we lose all our users or the constant uphill battle burns me out |
| [19:52:36] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: the impression I got as an outsider was that several of the students failed to grasp the amount of time they would have to give and the work ethic required |
| [19:53:06] | Captain_Murdoch: | stuartm, that is correct. |
| [19:53:25] | Captain_Murdoch: | ie, they thought it was a side job for a few hours a week, not a real job. |
| [19:53:32] | Captain_Murdoch: | ie, they wanted $50–100 an hour |
| [19:53:39] | Captain_Murdoch: | instead of $10–20 |
| [19:54:08] | stuartm: | but I'm not against the idea of trying again, I think it could be made to work with the lessons learnt from the last time, but it would require some people willing to take on the job of mentoring |
| [19:54:34] | Captain_Murdoch: | I'm not against trying again either. I'd be willing to do it again if we had a clearly defined set of projects/goals well ahead of time. |
| [19:54:56] | iamlindoro: | Yeah, seems like the clear goals/expectations are the critical element |
| [19:55:15] | stuartm: | with milestones tied to specific dates |
| [19:55:25] | Captain_Murdoch: | iamlindoro, yeah, exactly what I was about to say. we need to be better prepared. so part of it was our fault probably. |
| [19:55:56] | iamlindoro: | ffmpeg manages their GSoC very very well-- we could probably solicit advice/experience on how to structure it |
| [19:57:22] | ** mag0o raises his idea of implementing fanfeedr.com api to either extend long sporting events or just integrate a sports page, like weather ** | |
| [19:57:45] | mag0o: | i just don't know where to start (besides cpp 101) with my limited knowledge |
| [19:58:04] | iamlindoro: | mag0o: personally it wouldn't be at the top of my list for a SoC project |
| [19:58:42] | iamlindoro: | adding uPnP client support, a fully HTML5 streaming solution for MythWeb including liveTV, those kinds of things come to mind |
| [19:58:59] | mag0o: | ah |
| [19:59:18] | iamlindoro: | that is, core functionalities/universally useful additions |
| [19:59:26] | ** mag0o goes back to compiling amarok to try to get his ipod recognized ** | |
| [19:59:29] | mag0o: | :) |
| [19:59:30] | iamlindoro: | But then, those are my opinions and might be low on lots of other people's lists :) |
| [20:00:01] | stuartm: | multi-user again |
| [20:00:09] | Captain_Murdoch: | one of my pet peeves though is projects should be worth the $$. it's not a free ride. nothing wrong with slightly unrealistic goals to push people to do better. I see the GSoC as a line-item on someone's resume. |
| [20:00:40] | stuartm: | although I'd like to work on that myself .... better to give GSoC the jobs that no-one wants to do |
| [20:00:53] | Captain_Murdoch: | multi-user could just involve getting the core of it working with a few key places/screens/features, not converting everything over. |
| [20:01:20] | Captain_Murdoch: | once the framework is there, we can (or users can submit patches for) convert(ing) the rest. |
| [20:01:50] | Captain_Murdoch: | that framework would involve DB schema, user/permissions editor, helper classes/methods, etc.. |
| [20:02:26] | Captain_Murdoch: | doens't seem unreasonable for ~2 months work if the desired features and requirements are laid out ahead of time. |
| [20:02:49] | Captain_Murdoch: | requirements could possibly include a draft schema. |
| [20:03:01] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: as I've probably said before, my plan would just be to implement the core parts, the DB – user & perms table (which would be freeform a little like the settings table), the login UI and the global class which keeps track of who is logged in and can be queried for perms |
| [20:03:42] | stuartm: | from there it's just a case of going through screen by screen, or component by component using those hooks |
| [20:04:35] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah, I was thinking similar to the freeform thing with permissions like "Recordings" "Recordings/Delete" "Recordings/Play", some form of 'tree' so if you had "Recordings" that meant you had the other two by default. |
| [20:05:25] | Captain_Murdoch: | yep, that's what I was thinking. if (gCoreContext->UserHasPermission("Schedule/Create")) { blah(); } |
| [20:05:45] | stuartm: | aye |
| [20:06:16] | Captain_Murdoch: | well, that might need to be gContext since it could optionally popup a password dialog to let htem override the operation temporarily. |
| [20:06:17] | stuartm: | and utilising recording groups (with an intermediate table) to control who can access which recordings |
| [20:07:21] | stuartm: | e.g. you'd want all the kids recordings to go into the Kids group and that to be the only group they see when logged in |
| [20:07:53] | Captain_Murdoch: | http://www.bc2va.org/chris/patches/multiuser.schema |
| [20:07:56] | stuartm: | essentially you could dispense with the passworded recgroups or parental pin in mythvideo |
| [20:08:06] | Captain_Murdoch: | just a major draft of ideas currently. |
| [20:08:14] | Captain_Murdoch: | and not updated in a month or two. |
| [20:08:53] | Captain_Murdoch: | yep, centralized control. |
| [20:09:39] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: nice, I'll give that a read in a few minutes |
| [20:10:18] | stuartm: | we seem to be on the same page, which is good :) |
| [20:10:53] | iamlindoro: | I will say that I fear an active directory-esque permissions scheme |
| [20:11:38] | iamlindoro: | I think when the casual user thinks of multi-user, they are really looking for their recordings and videos marked "mine only" to be invisible to others, and maybe settings/theme/etc. |
| [20:12:01] | iamlindoro: | I think the permission thing is great, I just hope it can be done in a way that doesn't enforce the belief that myth is just too damn hard |
| [20:14:06] | stuartm: | iamlindoro: if the default permissions are 'admin' level, then there is no reason to believe that anyone would find it hard |
| [20:14:12] | Captain_Murdoch: | iamlindoro, that's covered on that page. default 'admin' user and 'admin' group. ie, if no other users are defined, then mythfrontend runs as 'admin' with full permissions. if you just want to separate recordings, then just create more users in the 'admin' group and they all have full functionality but each login separate. |
| [20:14:23] | stuartm: | and we would want to keep the number of 'permissions' to a limit |
| [20:15:08] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch: I wasn't speaking about your particular plan, just in generalities-- I am totally on the same page with Mark in that I just really, really crave an experience that is simple, and elegant in MFE, and I seem to look at new features through that lens |
| [20:15:27] | stuartm: | but for those with kids, or flatmates who keep messing with settings etc or deleting recordings, having some level of perms would I imagine be welcomed |
| [20:15:47] | Captain_Murdoch: | iamlindoro, yeah, just saying we're on the same page with that. default = simple, but can be more powerful/advanced. |
| [20:16:19] | iamlindoro: | And that's probably the basis of my frequent sadness/frustration/readiness to think about quitting-- Every decision made is a chore and every attempt to make things simpler/more ergonomic is an uphill battle because even within us, there is huge resistance to change |
| [20:16:37] | iamlindoro: | I know we are on the same page, just often wish we all were :) |
| [20:16:56] | iamlindoro: | ie, don't call a project finished until your wife/daughter/someone unskilled can do it |
| [20:17:10] | iamlindoro: | the channel scanner is a travesty-- amazing work as a technology, horrid, horrid experience |
| [20:17:18] | Captain_Murdoch: | that's the purpose of multi-users, so my 3–4 yr old can't do it. :) |
| [20:17:25] | iamlindoro: | Again, this has nothing to do with you, just ranting :) |
| [20:17:30] | Captain_Murdoch: | I know. :) |
| [20:17:34] | iamlindoro: | I actually completely trust your work |
| [20:18:29] | stuartm: | it will be nice to have a system which plugins can utilise in their own creative ways, e.g. mythnews remembering which feeds each member of the household likes to read or mythbrowser having different homepages and even content filtering according to who is logged in |
| [20:22:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | whether it's stored in the DB as a string or as mutliple table rows with parent/child relationships, I view permissions as simple as "Scheduling", "Scheduling/AdjustPriorities", "Scheduling/CreateNew", as described in my doc. I don't want to get into a huge unmanageable permissions structure. User 'Kid#1' has permission to "ManageRecordings/Playback" and that's it, no scheduling, no deleting. User 'Wife(#1?)' :) has pr |
| [20:22:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | etty much everything (ie, "ManageRecordings", "Scheduling", "MythVideo", etc.) but not anything starting with 'Settings', etc.. |
| [20:23:07] | iamlindoro: | heh, Wife #1 |
| [20:23:16] | Captain_Murdoch: | whole permissions tree needs to be thought out, but it should be simple, only maybe 3 levels deep at the most I would think. |
| [20:23:18] | iamlindoro: | That's a quick way to end up deleting a user |
| [20:24:04] | Captain_Murdoch: | had to put that in there since I put Kid#1. although people with low WAF may go on to Wife#2 and still want to keep Wife#1's recordings around for a little while. |
| [20:25:05] | iamlindoro: | Just give each text label a non-user editable iterating number to encourage them to get it right the first time-- like tuners ;) |
| [20:27:53] | ** Captain_Murdoch hasn't been thinking about the feature or that writeup page much, been spending free time keeping the MythContext patch up to date and testing things with it. wanted to get it in a week and a half ago but ran into an issue I needed to test more and had company and didn't get the time to test. works now though, so hopefully this week I'll commit the (14k-line) patch and can move onto more interesting stuff. ** | |
| [20:28:49] | iamlindoro: | Remember to commit it as one gigantic revision, that's what all the cool kids do :) |
| [20:30:07] | Captain_Murdoch: | has to be, otherwise it won't compile in-between. |
| [20:30:52] | Captain_Murdoch: | ie, lots of s/gContext/gCoreContext/g and s/#include "mythcontext.h"/#include "mythcorecontect.h"/ everywhere. |
| [20:31:08] | Captain_Murdoch: | latter would still compile, but not the former. |
| [20:31:22] | iamlindoro: | If it's required it's required, just poking a bit of fun at some of the arguments about that kind of thing in the past month or two |
| [20:31:59] | ** Captain_Murdoch wonders how hard it would be to create a preload library that would override open(), read(), seek(), close(), so external apps could read a myth:// URI. ** | |
| [20:32:08] | iamlindoro: | DON'T |
| [20:32:10] | iamlindoro: | Please :) |
| [20:32:11] | Captain_Murdoch: | :) |
| [20:32:37] | iamlindoro: | I have spent a small number of hours trying to figure out how to "tunnel" the ringbuffers to allow ISO/VIDEO_TS via internal + SGs, though |
| [20:33:13] | iamlindoro: | ie a DVDRingBuffer->remotefile->DVDRingBuffer tunnel |
| [20:33:31] | iamlindoro: | It seems like most of the parts are there, just trying to wrap my head around whether it's feasible to put them together |
| [20:33:37] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah. esentially like our currrent RingBuffer -> remotefile -> RingBuffer code. |
| [20:34:15] | iamlindoro: | yeah, thinking pass back a type/enum in the response so it knows what type of RB to create |
| [20:35:18] | iamlindoro: | I had the backend portion working last week-- ie, on the backend it was opening the correct RingBuffer type for each type of media |
| [20:35:30] | iamlindoro: | (that's the bit I reverted right after the BDNav commit) |
| [20:35:40] | iamlindoro: | but the client end was irritating me |
| [20:36:29] | Captain_Murdoch: | what some people don't seem to understand is that SG's can be local as well. I still think we should have 1 external player/app defined and just a menu item that says "play this recording via the external app". let them put all the logic in a script on the wiki. combine that with local SG dirs and the people that want Freevo-like functionality can have it. |
| [20:39:33] | iamlindoro: | I honestly think getting ISO/VIDEO_TS playback working in SGs is probably a couple hundred lines of code max for someone who knows how it all works |
| [20:40:22] | iamlindoro: | Last week I had it taking the myth:// URI, determining whether it matched the fingerprint of BD or DVD, opening the right rb, reading... but I got a little lost trying to get the rest done |
| [20:47:13] | stuartm: | btw, we should really be discussing this in #mythtv, I don't want gigem to find that no sooner has he started using #mythtv than we've started discussing things in yet another location ;) |
| [20:47:38] | ** Captain_Murdoch brings it back on topic by saying he wonders how we'll theme all this. ** | |
| [20:47:44] | iamlindoro: | This channel doesn't irritate me as often :) |
| [20:47:58] | iamlindoro: | Which is why I escape here for my colorful stuff :) |
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| [23:37:20] | Mode for #mythtv-theming by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v janneg | |
| [23:38:04] | janneg (janneg!~janne@tichy.grunau.be) has left #mythtv-theming () | |
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