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| [10:01:06] | \malex\: | i have a frontend on a wireless network, and it's just not fast enough to support the mpeg2 hdtv streams from my hdhomerun. can mythbackend automatically transcode live tv before the frontend gets it? i don't think i saw anything related in my searches, so a pointer to the proper docs would be much appreciated |
| [10:02:28] | Shadow__X: | \malex\: i have not seen any option like that |
| [10:02:34] | Shadow__X: | you could upgrade your network |
| [10:02:42] | Shadow__X: | that would fix the real issue |
| [10:03:00] | \malex\: | true, but i was hoping for a mythtv solution :) |
| [10:03:33] | Shadow__X: | you could run some ethernet |
| [10:03:41] | Shadow__X: | or try a powerline adapter |
| [10:03:44] | \malex\: | yeah, i know, wired is always better |
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| [10:04:04] | \malex\: | i don't think powerline would work for me, since it would have to cross cricuitbreakers. i'm not sure if powerline adapters can do that |
| [10:04:24] | \malex\: | i was hoping i missed something in the mythtv docs |
| [10:04:43] | \malex\: | i'm well aware that the real issue is the network |
| [10:05:14] | Shadow__X: | i have used a powerline adapter that passed 1 or 2 circuit breakers |
| [10:05:17] | Shadow__X: | it worked without an issue |
| [10:05:26] | \malex\: | hmm, i may have to look at those again then |
| [10:06:57] | Shadow__X: | my only issue was my kit goes "up to 500mbps" and the ones i have use gigabit nics. The fastest speed i achieved was 6MB/sec but honestly its fine the pings were consistent |
| [10:07:33] | \malex\: | yeah, 6 mbytes/sec would be good enough for me |
| [10:07:57] | Shadow__X: | obviously ymmv it could be faster or slower in your own setup |
| [10:08:11] | \malex\: | still, would have been nice to do live transcoding. maybe even for internet streaming |
| [10:08:52] | Shadow__X: | what do you mean? like transcoding everything? |
| [10:09:27] | \malex\: | but i guess that's what the HLS server is for, in mythtv |
| [10:09:59] | \malex\: | ah well, if it doesn't support it, it doesn't support it |
| [10:10:13] | \malex\: | thanks |
| [10:10:36] | Shadow__X: | \malex\: it could support it or it could not i honeslty have no idea |
| [10:10:43] | Shadow__X: | i am not a mythtv dev just a user |
| [10:10:56] | \malex\: | i figured :) |
| [10:11:09] | \malex\: | but i didn't run into anything that would indicate such support either |
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| [10:32:16] | k-man: | any idea why mythfrontend would always fail to find the cec device: 2014-04–07 20:27:50.969030 E CECAdapter: Failed to find any CEC devices. |
| [10:33:32] | k-man: | oh, according to one of the pulse8 devs, mythtv is still using an ancient version of libcec which does not support v2 of the firmware |
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| [11:06:43] | sphery: | k-man: yes, MythTV requires libcec v1, if you want to use its built-in CEC support--or, you can install libcec 2 and use something that allows you to do useful things with CEC (like libcec-daemon) |
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| [11:26:00] | Twiggy2cents: | Does a SBE always have to be initially started before the MBE? Or will the MBE eventually recognize it? |
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| [12:04:01] | justinh: | so, now armed with a 4GB USB stick & a USB HDD I can turn my laptop into a proper Linux test box for that stupid USB DVB_T2 tuner tonight. All my USB sticks were packed (I know not where) before I moved house |
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| [12:06:57] | justinh: | and I didn't realise the thing the tuner is a clone of is a 3-standard device – DVB-T/T2/C. Maybe T2 & C have been transposed if all it produces in T2 mode is garbage |
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| [12:15:38] | k-man: | sphery, i couldn't quite work out what libcec-daemon does |
| [12:15:48] | k-man: | or how to use libcec-daemon to do something useful |
| [12:18:22] | justinh: | my current thinking is, maybe it only produces garbage on a Pi or other lame crap excuses for a proper computer |
| [12:18:38] | justinh: | we'll see soon enough! |
| [12:28:57] | justinh: | oh, and that other perennial problem of 'tuner use in Linux' .. folks not using new enough drivers – i.e. not straight outta the media tree |
| [12:29:24] | justinh: | mind, if somebody uses a Pi I can understand them not wanting to build a kernel. Or anything |
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| [12:36:42] | clever: | justinh: dkms works if you pop the right kernel source into the right path |
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| [12:54:18] | justinh: | dkms? |
| [12:54:43] | justinh: | oh yeah. that |
| [12:55:38] | justinh: | the argument that folks still tend to use vanilla kernels still stands though |
| [12:56:01] | justinh: | because even building modules on an Arm PoS takes half a day |
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| [12:59:41] | clever: | thats why i generaly use a cross compiler |
| [13:00:04] | clever: | but its not setup for userspace stuff yet, the results are linked bad |
| [13:00:11] | clever: | kernel uses special link scripts, so it doesnt have that issue |
| [13:00:35] | justinh: | you always were doing crazy stuff though |
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| [13:01:04] | clever: | yeah |
| [13:02:48] | clever: | hmmm, do you remember how much ram the uncompressed image data in myth is, for a theme? |
| [13:05:40] | justinh: | it'll be X * Y * 8 * 8 * 8 * 8 bits |
| [13:06:18] | justinh: | i.e. image dimensions (onscreen size) times RGBA |
| [13:07:04] | clever: | dont you mean *32? |
| [13:07:37] | clever: | and not every theme image is scalled up to the full screen size? |
| [13:07:53] | justinh: | no, just the size it appears onscreen as |
| [13:08:04] | clever: | about how many pixels are in the average theme? |
| [13:08:11] | clever: | just trying to get a rough idea |
| [13:08:11] | justinh: | what's average? |
| [13:08:33] | justinh: | averagely lame? averagely ugly? |
| [13:08:39] | clever: | anything really |
| [13:08:56] | justinh: | no idea. I stopped caring when I stopped theming :-) |
| [13:09:30] | clever: | i recently wrote some code to control the 3d pipeline in the pi and its capable of 2d graphics and texturing |
| [13:09:34] | justinh: | even text can end up as bitmaps, so it's anybody's guess |
| [13:09:45] | clever: | it could be used used to hw accel mythtv ui |
| [13:10:14] | justinh: | the UI is the last thing to worry about. Video playback should be #1 |
| [13:10:14] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/1 ** | |
| [13:10:41] | clever: | ive already figured out the issues in video playback when i was trying to port mplayer over |
| [13:11:00] | justinh: | mplayer wasn't already ported to it? |
| [13:11:03] | justinh: | :-O |
| [13:11:03] | clever: | but i heard that the memory usage from themes would be an issue as well |
| [13:11:06] | clever: | nope |
| [13:11:30] | clever: | if i remember correctly, it started with XBMC, and then omxplayer was ripped out of that and made into a stand-alone app |
| [13:11:31] | justinh: | clever: artwork will always be the killer |
| [13:11:54] | justinh: | how the hell XBMC deals with that I don't know |
| [13:12:17] | clever: | one thing i think could be done to save ram, dont scale the images up to final display size |
| [13:12:34] | clever: | if you have control of the texture units in the 3d pipeline, you can let them scale it up for you |
| [13:12:37] | justinh: | it shouldn't do that anyway |
| [13:12:47] | justinh: | 2d should be discontinued in mythtv IMHO |
| [13:13:00] | justinh: | like if you have no HW GL, you're not invited to the party |
| [13:13:05] | clever: | ah yeah, do all 2d rendering via opengl |
| [13:13:18] | justinh: | s/2d/Qt |
| [13:13:49] | justinh: | it's always too expensive to do the scaling on the CPU compared to a halfway decent GPU |
| [13:13:50] | clever: | still 2d, just going thru a 3d engine to do it |
| [13:14:08] | justinh: | and yeah even the Pi's GPU is better than a lot of Intel junk |
| [13:14:11] | clever: | that can just reuse the stuff ive started then, i have a partialy working 2d pipeline in gl |
| [13:14:39] | clever: | from what i can see, it has 192 virtual cores for rendering the individual pixels |
| [13:15:21] | clever: | and each of those can perform 2 FPU operations per clock (always add and mult) |
| [13:15:24] | justinh: | maybe myth even *does* use proper GL drawing methods when the qt painter isn't used now. I've not looked at that code for ages |
| [13:16:03] | justinh: | but as far as I remember the image scale/cache operations are done every time the theme or resolution is changed |
| [13:16:38] | clever: | was just thinking you could get smaller texture images if you dont scale things up |
| [13:16:44] | clever: | and then let the 3d hardware scale |
| [13:17:36] | justinh: | it only really applies to when themes are displayed at non-native resolutions/aspects anyway |
| [13:18:19] | clever: | the dispmanx stuff may also help in this area, its basicaly the same as XV without the surface limit |
| [13:18:35] | clever: | the image size doesnt have to match the display size |
| [13:19:09] | justinh: | then how do you deal with mythtv always needing to sit on top of X? |
| [13:19:34] | justinh: | or is it now a case that X isn't (likely never has been) a *real* wate of resources |
| [13:19:38] | justinh: | s/wate/waste/ |
| [13:19:53] | clever: | X isnt really required |
| [13:20:06] | clever: | if the input layer is patched up, you could run without X entirely |
| [13:20:18] | clever: | and myth is lirc capable, so you could even ignore that if you dont want keyb/mouse |
| [13:21:25] | justinh: | don't all the libs mythtv uses out of Qt rely on X though? |
| [13:21:39] | clever: | yeah |
| [13:21:49] | clever: | but i have heard something about qt on framebuffer devices |
| [13:21:58] | justinh: | it'd be easier just to write your own frontend |
| [13:22:31] | justinh: | I'm failing to understand why nobody has done a good job using the API yet |
| [13:22:42] | clever: | thinking about it, the simplest method i can see would be to get alpha support in Xorg, alpha that goes right to the base framebuffer |
| [13:22:45] | justinh: | for the Pi I mean |
| [13:22:59] | justinh: | or Android |
| [13:23:03] | clever: | and then use dispmanx to put a resource behind Xorg, aligned with the mythtv window |
| [13:23:16] | justinh: | now the API pages, and has been pageable for a while |
| [13:23:21] | clever: | and the alpha window in Xorg's image will reveal the mythtv output |
| [13:23:41] | justinh: | rather than drag EVERYTHING out at load time.. or redraw time.. GAH! |
| [13:24:24] | clever: | if you cant get alpha in xorg like that, you can draw the 3d output over xorg, where the window is |
| [13:24:38] | clever: | which will have issues with covering the mouse pointer and any other window that happens to cover it up |
| [13:24:50] | clever: | much like flash covering up html popups in a browser |
| [13:25:04] | justinh: | call to backend.. gimme a list of recordings.. display list of recordings from array... play recording. quit watching recording.. go back to list of recordings... |
| [13:25:26] | clever: | ah, you mean that |
| [13:25:27] | justinh: | scroll down or up.. grab updated list from position X.. |
| [13:25:53] | justinh: | the cmyth stuff in XBMC on the Pi is risible |
| [13:26:38] | clever: | the main issue i ran into with the mplayer porting |
| [13:26:40] | justinh: | hell even the EPG... how hard is it to write a bit of code to put a bloody grid onscreen?! |
| [13:27:03] | clever: | omx has a frame latency, it wont return frame 1 until you feed it the h264 packet for something like frame 10 |
| [13:27:09] | clever: | and ffmpeg just cant handle that |
| [13:27:24] | clever: | i was writing a proper ffmpeg level h264 accel |
| [13:27:43] | justinh: | I thought ffmpeg were working on hw accel for the pi |
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| [13:28:10] | clever: | omxplayer only uses ffmpeg to demux the streams, then it does ALL decoding thru its own api |
| [13:28:24] | justinh: | or was that before they started thumping each other with their purses? |
| [13:28:43] | clever: | ffmpeg has no omx support right now |
| [13:29:32] | justinh: | why didn't they just support the *right* API from the start? Stupid Broadcom |
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| [13:29:59] | justinh: | it's always some other flavour of the month thing, like GStreamer or whatever lameness currently has favour |
| [13:30:03] | clever: | i'm fairly sure the h264 decoder is pipelined |
| [13:30:04] | clever: | and thats why it cant return frame 1 until it gets frame 10 |
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| [13:30:27] | clever: | and ffmpeg just cant deal with that design |
| [13:30:42] | clever: | i hacked my driver to just return blank frames until the latency went away |
| [13:31:02] | justinh: | hmm.. ffmpeg has been made to work with other hw decoders though.. which I'd have thought would also be pipleliney |
| [13:31:02] | clever: | then i discovered b-frames |
| [13:31:04] | clever: | so when ffmpeg gives me the compressed frame 10, i return the uncompressed frame 1 |
| [13:31:20] | clever: | they use various hacks to do it |
| [13:31:29] | clever: | vdpau for example doesnt return image frames |
| [13:31:38] | clever: | it returns custom frame handles |
| [13:31:43] | clever: | the image never leaves the GPU |
| [13:31:53] | justinh: | that'd be the best way to do it |
| [13:32:03] | clever: | yeah |
| [13:32:08] | clever: | thats the direction vlc is going |
| [13:32:12] | justinh: | so OMX doesn't do that? |
| [13:32:16] | clever: | omx can do that |
| [13:32:25] | clever: | but i choose not to go that route when i was starting |
| [13:32:37] | justinh: | otherwise you'll forever be blitting 1080P bitmaps around.. |
| [13:33:03] | clever: | 1080 isnt possible with me method |
| [13:33:05] | clever: | even 720p has issues |
| [13:33:27] | clever: | when using omx 'properly' you link several modules together |
| [13:33:39] | clever: | video_decode -> video_scheduler |
| [13:33:43] | clever: | clock -> video_scheduler |
| [13:33:50] | clever: | video_scheduler -> video_display |
| [13:34:03] | clever: | then you feed it h264 frames, and it just works |
| [13:34:23] | clever: | it handles all the frame buffering, sync, and rendering |
| [13:35:47] | clever: | but at that point, you dont have control over the av sync, and your forced to also use their audio pipeline |
| [13:36:03] | clever: | feed the same clock module into audio_scheduler, and the rest of that |
| [13:42:34] | justinh: | so no timestretch then? booo! |
| [13:42:59] | justinh: | mind, for £25 a frontend I think I could forgive the loss of some features |
| [13:43:41] | clever: | there may be an API on the clock module for time stretch stuff |
| [13:44:03] | clever: | it would be a matter of finding out how to re-implement each of those features |
| [13:44:07] | clever: | thats why i originaly went with the full frame method |
| [13:44:18] | clever: | ffmpeg returns an entire frame, then you control the av sync the same as always |
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| [13:45:01] | clever: | but i could still go the vdpau route, return opaque frame references, and then let myth decide when to render a frame |
| [13:45:12] | clever: | that would give myth more control over things |
| [13:45:53] | justinh: | still wondering if it wouldn't be a whole load easier just to write a frontend for a player that already works |
| [13:46:09] | justinh: | so what if it doesn't support fullscreen cover art or whatever |
| [13:46:16] | clever: | the issue then is just a matter of recreating the entire ui |
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| [13:46:29] | justinh: | just so long as it's better than ONEHUGELISTOFTHINGS that you get with DLNA |
| [13:46:46] | justinh: | clever: you don't have to recreate the whole UI |
| [13:46:56] | justinh: | just create what's needed to make it work |
| [13:47:04] | clever: | just what you want to use |
| [13:47:50] | justinh: | there are more than enough UI libraries around these days. Draw a smooth scrolling animated list of stuff. Return the selected thing from the list to me.. |
| [13:48:47] | justinh: | the argument for re-inventing the wheel in mythtv was always that it was to be in control of limitations. With the end result that mythtv still hasn't got smooth scrolling lists |
| [13:51:05] | justinh: | that'd be my argument against recreating the UI. |
| [13:51:34] | justinh: | which reminds me. I wonder how the other thing is doing these days |
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| [13:57:37] | justinh: | clever: or just take hold of the cmyth plugin & make its API requests paged instead of pulling everything in one go. A recent laptop has no trouble with that speed-wise, but the Pi is like .. HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG |
| [13:57:54] | justinh: | loading a list of like 1000 recordings takes 30+ secs |
| [13:59:07] | clever: | i learned a lot about high performance list stuff in android |
| [13:59:16] | clever: | since it has to deal with similar limits a lot |
| [14:00:04] | justinh: | the android frontend is similarly poor. or worse |
| [14:00:25] | justinh: | but the mythtv API can do paged requests |
| [14:00:39] | justinh: | NOW it can anyway.. it's not always been able to |
| [14:01:15] | clever: | i would request every page in a background thread, one at a time |
| [14:01:25] | clever: | and as soon as the first page is done, inform the ui thread and update the ui |
| [14:01:25] | justinh: | yeah you could do that |
| [14:01:38] | clever: | so you see a result right away, and it pre-loads the rest |
| [14:01:53] | justinh: | cos I don't imagine a list of 1000 recordings takes up that much RAM |
| [14:02:40] | justinh: | maybe with preview images it would though! |
| [14:03:31] | justinh: | gah. Stupid, stupid man! |
| [14:03:41] | clever: | you could pre-load only the images for things within a certain range of the current item |
| [14:04:17] | clever: | my main issue right now with myth, is that i have HDTV streaming right over my LAN |
| [14:04:21] | clever: | yet i cant record it |
| [14:04:42] | clever: | and i dont feel like getting an HD encoder when the data is already on my LAN |
| [14:04:47] | justinh: | the committee of the club I run a website for, told me the other day they wanted to move all the web stuff 'in house' so a new committee guy could 'take over'. Right, fine, I thought.. here's an archive of the site, here are the domain control panel passwords etc.. then they got back to me saying "WHOOPS! We're biting off more than we can chew". |
| [14:04:49] | clever: | or sacrificing a whole STB |
| [14:05:20] | justinh: | why can't you record it? |
| [14:05:33] | clever: | multicast udp rtp mpegts, with standard CA crypto |
| [14:05:51] | justinh: | so not just mythtv then. you can't record it with *anything* |
| [14:06:01] | clever: | i can only record it with the DVR they provide |
| [14:06:12] | justinh: | that's the way they like to keep things |
| [14:06:18] | justinh: | stops you uploading the stuff to the interwebs |
| [14:06:23] | clever: | yep |
| [14:06:37] | justinh: | stops *everybody* uploading it. SEE? SEEE?!?! |
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| [14:07:03] | justinh: | encryption has totally wiped out TV & movie piracy. It's just THAT awesome |
| [14:07:08] | clever: | :D |
| [14:07:26] | justinh: | oh wait... No, in *this* universe all it's done is piss off genuine consumers |
| [14:07:42] | clever: | and force them to run windows CE to even watch tv now |
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| [14:08:21] | justinh: | keeps MS in a job |
| [14:08:32] | justinh: | and the blokes who specc'd it all up |
| [14:08:41] | clever: | the DVR's all run something called 'mediaroom' |
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| [14:08:50] | clever: | which appears to be dvr software microsoft wrote |
| [14:09:17] | justinh: | isn't that erm.. a Fox company behind that? |
| [14:09:44] | justinh: | oh no, Ericcson (WHO?).. LOL |
| [14:09:55] | justinh: | erm Ericsson even |
| [14:10:09] | justinh: | formally MS though |
| [14:10:39] | clever: | if i send an IGMP packet to join the multicast group, the IPTV service will stream the entire mpegts right to any desktop in my lan |
| [14:10:48] | clever: | so all i need is a CAM to record it |
| [14:11:44] | justinh: | the whole mpegts is encrypted? I thought they usually just encrippled each stream in the TS |
| [14:12:03] | clever: | all of them with the same code |
| [14:12:03] | justinh: | or is this a case of pay oncem get everything? |
| [14:12:05] | clever: | each stream inside the ts is encrypted |
| [14:12:18] | clever: | there are multiple packages |
| [14:12:40] | justinh: | and each package is a collection of mpegts streams? |
| [14:12:51] | clever: | nope |
| [14:13:03] | clever: | every channel its its own mpegts stream |
| [14:13:06] | clever: | a seperate multicast group for every single channel |
| [14:13:10] | clever: | no wasted bandwidth |
| [14:13:42] | clever: | i have a paste of the mpegts dump on http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/fibreop |
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| [14:14:03] | clever: | mp3, aac, h264 |
| [14:14:06] | clever: | 3 program streams in each TS, containing 2 audio tracks and 1 video track |
| [14:14:12] | justinh: | so how do you need a CA to record it? surely just dump it onto disk & decripple on playback |
| [14:14:40] | clever: | those 3 program streams are encrypted with the normal 12 bit CA key i believe |
| [14:15:03] | clever: | and that 12 bit CA key is contained within pid 0x1fe0 |
| [14:15:11] | justinh: | the only way to decode that.. can't be talked about here anyway |
| [14:15:16] | clever: | the STB will stream pid 0x1fe0 to the CAM (control commands, firmware updates, keys) |
| [14:15:26] | clever: | and then the CAM spits out 12 bit keys to decode the actual stream |
| [14:15:41] | justinh: | at what.. like 2 second intervals or so? |
| [14:15:47] | clever: | variable |
| [14:15:53] | clever: | whatever the content provider decides on |
| [14:16:15] | justinh: | yeah but the upshot is.. whatever the interval, that's all the video you're gonna get if you brute-force it |
| [14:16:34] | clever: | i have seen articles online about brute forcing it with a rainbow table |
| [14:16:44] | clever: | basically, h264 will sometimes output a solid stream of 0's |
| [14:16:51] | clever: | which will cover several mpegts frames |
| [14:17:05] | clever: | so the ciphertext of those frames will match |
| [14:17:15] | clever: | find that, look it up in a rainbow table that took 3 months to generate |
| [14:17:22] | clever: | and you can brute force a key in ~5mins i think |
| [14:17:35] | clever: | 5mins of decrypting for every 2 sec of video |
| [14:17:39] | clever: | worst case |
| [14:17:46] | clever: | and thats assuming they are padding it at all |
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| [16:56:46] | Myth_noob: | hi all. i wonder if you can help. i have today recieved a new router from my new isp and have got everything working apart from mythweb where it wants to keep connecting to the old internal ip address of 192.168.1.67 instead of my new internal ip of 192.168.0.3. can anyone tell me where the config file is to point it to the correct ip please? |
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| [17:04:17] | sphery: | Myth_noob: mythweb.conf in your Apache configuration, though most distros have means of setting this for you (which may overwrite any manual changes you make) |
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| [19:09:26] | jm|laptop: | if I remove a tuner which has schedules relying on it, what happens to the schedules? |
| [19:10:07] | jm|laptop: | or indeed a whole backend with its tuners |
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| [19:28:58] | sphery: | jm|laptop: When you remove a tuner, you'll do so in mythtv-setup, which requires you to shut down mythbackend. When mythbackend is restarted, your recordings will be rescheduled with any (remaining) available tuners according to the priorities you've specified. |
| [19:29:29] | sphery: | if you have multiple backends and shut down one or more remote backends, the master backend will notice the disconnection and will reschedule recordings with remaining tuners |
| [19:30:45] | sphery: | since recording rules (what you've called "schedules"?) aren't associated with "tuners", per se, rules are unaffected by disappearing tuners |
| [19:31:48] | sphery: | if you have a recording rule that records a show that's only available on a Video Source that's only available on tuners that aren't available, the showings will be marked as not recorded due to unavailability (and the history of its not being recorded will be kept for 10 days from airing) |
| [19:32:38] | sphery: | (or, in other words, if you remove a tuner that's the only place where a particular show can be recorded, it won't record that show, but will mark that it wasn't recorded) |
| [19:35:33] | sphery: | and, for the sake of completeness, when you bring a remote backend back up after a shutdown, the master backend notices the new backend connection and reschedules recordings with the additional tuners |
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| [20:54:21] | jm|laptop: | sphery: thanks. I'm retiring a DVB-S2 backend because the channels are coming to DVB-T2. I think I have some recording rules that say "this channel only" and that channel (by id at least) will no longer be available. If Upcoming Recordings will display these I can drill down to the recording rule and make it do it by callsign or something. |
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| [23:45:17] | FLeiXiuS: | Hola hoal |
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