Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, January 22nd, 2014, 00:03 UTC

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Korny:

uggg gas bill sucked this month 200 bucks for 3000 square feet :/

[00:24:02]

Korny:

whoops wrong channel

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mattwj2002:

hi all

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[01:17:56]

mattwj2002:

stupid comcast

[01:18:04]

mattwj2002:

moving my clearqam around :(

[01:29:05]

kisak:

verizon did a small channel shuffle as well

[01:33:36]

mattwj2002:

kisak: do you get clearqam with verizon?

[01:33:52]

mattwj2002:

I am assuming you are talking about fios

[01:33:53]

mattwj2002:

:)

[01:35:44]

kisak:

yes, local and forsaken channels only

[01:36:16]

mattwj2002:

yeah same with comcast

[01:36:17]

mattwj2002:

:)

[01:36:41]

mattwj2002:

so kisak isn't fios fiber?

[01:36:49]

wagnerrp:

yes

[01:36:52]

kisak:

it is

[01:36:59]

mattwj2002:

they must convert it to coxial at some point?

[01:37:11]

mattwj2002:

how does all that work?

[01:37:11]

wagnerrp:

in your home, with a transducer

[01:37:12]

kisak:

muxing at the ONT

[01:37:47]

mattwj2002:

cool

[01:37:55]

mattwj2002:

howdy wagnerrp

[01:38:35]

wagnerrp:

evening

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[02:26:34]

qu:

Why has Myth gotten so busted over the past six months?

[02:27:32]

wagnerrp:

improper hardware

[02:28:54]

qu:

My hardware has not changed for eith years.

[02:29:06]

qu:

Don't try and use that excuse.

[02:29:23]

wagnerrp:

i thought you were trying to run a frontend on a machine with three radeons

[02:30:18]

qu:

The backend has been screwed.

[02:31:13]

wagnerrp:

symptoms?

[02:33:04]

qu:

I manually set it to record, but then it can't even find the file.

[02:33:46]

wagnerrp:

what kind of tuner?

[02:34:07]

qu:

I just now set the Big Bang Theory to record as a test. After ten minutes I try to watch it, and it can't find the fucking file.

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[02:35:21]

qu:

Along with the lack of AMD support I haven't had TV for two months. I am pretty sick of it.

[02:36:11]

wagnerrp:

the difficulty with AMD hardware is not a new phenomena, and largely not the fault of mythtv

[02:36:15]

wagnerrp:

what kind of tuner?

[02:36:52]

qu:

"The file for this recording can not be found."

[02:36:59]

wagnerrp:

what kind of tuner?

[02:37:04]

qu:

It is the fault of mythtv.

[02:37:13]

wagnerrp:

you said you're making a new recording, and the recording file cannot be found

[02:37:16]

qu:

They have not made support possible for AMD.

[02:37:45]

wagnerrp:

mythtv supports opengl and vdpau fine, and vaapi to a lesser tested extent

[02:37:49]

qu:

I set iit to record an ongoing show. Now that the show is over, it can't find the recording.

[02:37:53]

wagnerrp:

nvidia hardware workd fine, intel hardware works fine

[02:38:12]

qu:

Myth can not support the AMD driver.

[02:38:29]

qu:

It does not take in the fglrx includes during compile.

[02:38:29]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is not supposed to support the amd driver, amd supports their own drivers

[02:38:39]

wagnerrp:

mythtv supports the opengl api

[02:38:44]

qu:

You must not understand how this works.

[02:39:14]

wagnerrp:

nvidia has their own custom opengl libraries

[02:39:24]

wagnerrp:

intel and amd both use the standard Xorg opengl libraries

[02:39:35]

wagnerrp:

they only provide the kernel modules

[02:39:56]

wagnerrp:

so on existing recordings, it claims it cannot find the files?

[02:40:01]

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[02:40:05]

qu:

fglrx provides includes, but the myth compile fails to internalize them.

[02:40:30]

qu:

Yes, the recording is in the database, but when I try to play it says it can't find the file.

[02:40:51]

wagnerrp:

this is an existing recording, that you have been able to view in the past?

[02:40:51]

qu:

I physically look and the file is there.

[02:41:11]

wagnerrp:

is it the frontend or backend that is reporting it cannot access the file?

[02:41:12]

qu:

I can play the recording independent of Myth.

[02:41:21]

qu:

the frontend.

[02:41:33]

wagnerrp:

are you running the frontend as the same user as the backend?

[02:41:51]

qu:

No, the backend is mythtv and frontend is my user.

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[02:42:30]

wagnerrp:

your user has permissions to access those files? and execute permissions on the directories?

[02:43:20]

wagnerrp:

i'm not aware if the frontend will attempt to stream from the backend if it is on the same host

[02:43:48]

qu:

This is on a remote host because on the backend system it doesn't work at all due to amd.

[02:44:12]

qu:

All recordings are in user dir, with permissions mythtv:{user} 770.

[02:44:14]

wagnerrp:

did you mount the recordings on the remote host?

[02:44:51]

qu:

No I'm running the frontend on the remote machine, using the backend through a reverse ssh tunnel, as I have for many years.

[02:45:11]

wagnerrp:

you're going to have to explain that one

[02:45:36]

qu:

A reverse ssh tunnel brings a remote port and makes it look local.

[02:45:55]

qu:

So I have 6543 and 6544 coming through tunnels to my remote machine.

[02:46:13]

qu:

Then the frontend thinks the remote machine has myth local.

[02:46:24]

wagnerrp:

but, your frontend and backend are on different IPs

[02:46:50]

qu:

The backend is on cygnus and the frontend is droog.

[02:46:52]

wagnerrp:

you're telling it to only listen on 127.0.0.1?

[02:47:04]

qu:

Y, for security.

[02:47:18]

wagnerrp:

so then the frontend thinks the recordings should be local

[02:47:30]

wagnerrp:

and will only search for those recordings in the exact paths in which they exist on the backend

[02:47:41]

wagnerrp:

it will likely not attempt to connect to the backend to stream the recordings

[02:47:44]

qu:

Then the remote machine sets up a reverse ssh tunnel to extend those ports from the backend machine to my remote laptop.

[02:48:06]

qu:

No.

[02:48:20]

wagnerrp:

no what?

[02:48:47]

qu:

The remote machine...

[02:48:56]

qu:

runs the frontend.

[02:49:08]

qu:

Which looks to 6543 and 6544

[02:49:20]

wagnerrp:

correct, but the backend is on 127.0.0.1, meaning the frontend thinks the backend is local

[02:49:23]

qu:

... that both appear to be local.

[02:49:26]

wagnerrp:

even though through network trickery, it is not

[02:49:45]

wagnerrp:

so... it will not attempt to stream content from the backend, it will only look to the local filesystem for the content

[02:49:51]

qu:

Any access by the frontend, goes through the tunnel to the server.

[02:49:57]

wagnerrp:

and thus the content must be mounted in the same locations on the frontend and the backend

[02:50:08]

qu:

No.

[02:50:10]

[R]:

lol

[02:50:18]

qu:

It's always worked for many years.

[02:50:49]

wagnerrp:

you do realize this is a _horribly_ convoluted setup, that could _never_ even be considered by the developers, much less tested for, correct?

[02:50:49]

qu:

You have to understand server/client.

[02:50:59]

qu:

No.

[02:51:13]

qu:

I shouldn't have explained it.

[02:51:30]

qu:

You must not understand.

[02:51:43]

wagnerrp:

where are the recordings on your backend, the exact path

[02:52:07]

qu:

/home/{user}/TV/Recordings

[02:52:14]

wagnerrp:

and on the frontend?

[02:52:33]

qu:

I don't set it on the frontend. It works through the backend.

[02:52:37]

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[02:52:53]

qu:

As far as it's concerned the backend is local.

[02:52:59]

wagnerrp:

EXACTLY

[02:53:08]

wagnerrp:

so it's not going to try to stream content from the backend

[02:53:13]

wagnerrp:

it is going to pull it from the local filesystem

[02:53:17]

qu:

What does the client do when it requests a recording?

[02:53:24]

wagnerrp:

which is why you're getting errors that it cannot find the files on the local filesystem

[02:54:19]

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[02:54:22]

qu:

What does the client do when it requests a recording? It requests it from the server.

[02:54:58]

wagnerrp:

it requests that the server record, yes

[02:54:59]

qu:

I don't know how to say it clearer than this has worked fine for 8 years, and it works with all my other daemons as well.

[02:55:07]

wagnerrp:

and then it opens up a brand new socket to stream the recording through

[02:55:22]

wagnerrp:

probably because someone wrote something into the file access routines to try to be smart

[02:55:35]

wagnerrp:

and it's not quite smart enough to know when you're trying to fool it

[02:56:00]

qu:

Looks like you don't understand this.

[02:57:27]

qu:

I'll say it this way: I can play old shows, but not new ones.

[02:57:56]

wagnerrp:

you said nothing worked

[02:58:33]

qu:

On the backend machine lots of these:

[02:58:38]

qu:

E ERROR when trying to delete file: GetPlaybackURL/UNABLE/TO/FIND/LOCAL/FILE/ON/cygnus/2193_20130416070000.mpg. File doesn't exist. Database metadata will not be removed.

[02:58:47]

wagnerrp:

you said those errors were on the frontend

[02:58:50]

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[02:59:03]

qu:

The frontend can't find the recording I want to play.

[02:59:27]

qu:

It shows on the listing (database), but it won't play.

[03:00:01]

qu:

I checked the directory settings and they are fine.

[03:00:12]

qu:

And permissions on the directory chain.

[03:01:06]

sphery:

and you verified the file actually exists and is > 0bytes?

[03:01:24]

sphery:

that specific file--2193_20130416070000.mpg

[03:01:46]

wagnerrp:

in one of the paths you've defined for the appropriate storage group on that machine

[03:02:15]

sphery:

and you're running /both/ systems (since you're "faking" a local backend through SSH port forwarding) with the same profile (i.e. hostname)

[03:02:29]

qu:

Well Big Bang is my instant test case.

[03:02:51]

qu:

I check its I|I and it does not have a filename like they usually do.

[03:02:54]

sphery:

and you said it can't find that one? does it exist

[03:03:08]

qu:

No way to check without a filename.

[03:03:21]

clever:

2193_20130416070000.mpg

[03:03:30]

sphery:

should say what file doesn't exist when you try to play it

[03:03:32]

sphery:

in the log file

[03:03:48]

sphery:

of the frontend and/or backend

[03:03:56]

qu:

It has no Recorded File Name for some reason.

[03:04:05]

qu:

on the frontend.

[03:04:07]

sphery:

what's the exact message?

[03:04:24]

qu:

It does say the file doesn't exist.

[03:04:51]

qu:

"The file for this recording can not be found."

[03:05:03]

clever:

check the log file on the frontend

[03:05:14]

qu:

And II shows it does not have any Recorded File Name.

[03:05:47]

qu:

I'll have to restart the frontend in terminal.'

[03:06:02]

wagnerrp:

it's not logging to file?

[03:07:32]

qu:

N, nothing in /var/log.

[03:07:49]

qu:

https://paste.debian.net/77721/ Some kind of communications error.

[03:07:51]

wagnerrp:

when you ran it, did you tell it to log anywhere?

[03:08:22]

qu:

I guess there's a switch, but I'd have to analyze mythfrontend to plumb its secrets.

[03:08:33]

wagnerrp:

or just 'mythfrontend --help'

[03:08:47]

clever:

2014-01–21 19:06:21.081361 E PlaybackBoxHelper: CHECK_AVAILABILITY 'myth://127.0.0.1:6543/2120_20140122030000.mpg' file not found

[03:09:01]

clever:

check the logs of whatever port 6543 is routed to

[03:09:22]

qu:

6543 is tunneled transparently.

[03:09:34]

sphery:

if only there were some way to just install a package, where some really nice guys spent days/weeks/months of their lives analyzing mythfrontend (and crew) to plumb its secrets so that the package set up everything properly...

[03:09:35]

jya:

skd5aner: I think I've identified why live TV used to hang after a few seconds

[03:10:01]

clever:

qu: check the logs of whatever your tunneling that to

[03:10:12]

qu:

Indeed I have no channel 2120 file in Recordings.

[03:10:26]

qu:

... on the backend machine.

[03:10:32]

sphery:

"in Recordings"?

[03:10:37]

sphery:

you need to check on the file system

[03:10:48]

sphery:

for 11499_20140122021400.mpg and 2120_20140122023000.mpg

[03:10:54]

qu:

clever: There are no myth logs on the frontend machine, unless I run the frontend in a terminal.

[03:11:09]

wagnerrp:

or give it the appropriate flag

[03:11:30]

qu:

sphery: there is no file beginning with 2120.

[03:11:40]

jya:

in the log I found warnings about taking a long time to write on disk... I then check each disk in my RAID log, and one disk is giving me smart errors. So I moved the recording disk to my new NAS (running freenas) via NFS... all working fine now; I haven't had a single lock in the last few hours. I do get a warning about taking a long time to write, but it's working just fine. network usage is only a few mbit/s

[03:11:41]

sphery:

or (ugly) don't give it the appropriate flag and redirect output to a file

[03:12:18]

clever:

qu: check the logs on the backend

[03:12:23]

qu:

And there is no file beginning with 11499 in Recordings.

[03:12:55]

sphery:

qu: generally that means that MythTV is getting absolutely no data from your capture device--but it's also getting no errors from the device

[03:13:11]

sphery:

so MythTV assumes that "it says it's working, so it must be and there's really no data, yet"

[03:13:15]

jya:

funny that since changing to my nas as storage area; changing channels in live tv is much faster

[03:13:15]

wagnerrp:

back to the original question, which tuner?

[03:13:51]

wagnerrp:

with a channel like 11499, that sounds like digital cable

[03:14:24]

qu:

clever: I have no log entries on the backend machine for today, for some reason.

[03:14:38]

clever:

time to figure out why then

[03:14:59]

wagnerrp:

did something roll over the files, and not properly HUP mythbackend?

[03:15:29]

qu:

I'm trying to run the backend with Debian's systemd.

[03:15:35]

jya:

deinterlacing code seems to be non-effective on my mac now.... very weird

[03:15:49]

qu:

Come to think of it that may be when most of my hassles started.

[03:16:29]

qu:

I wonder if there's a Myth native systemd .service file, rather than aborting through Debian's kludge.

[03:17:30]

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[03:19:22]

qu:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Systemd_mythbackend_Configuration

[03:20:44]

qu:

I can't understand this tonight. I'll have to study it tomorrow.

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[10:45:37]

simora:

running mythtv 0.27+fixes / HDHR3-CC and for the last three days have been missing all scheduled recordings. i get "Reschedule requested for PLACE PrepareToRecord" dropped in mythbackend.log but the recording never fires off. nothing else appears in the log that seems to indicate an issue. any ideas?

[10:54:52]

Shadow__X:

simora: can you watch live tv with it?

[10:54:56]

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[10:55:51]

simora:

@Shadow__X yup. can even do up a quick recording of something in the next 15 mins or so and it fires off without issue.

[10:56:39]

Shadow__X:

simora: ah thats weird. you cant have anything record?

[10:57:43]

simora:

Shadow__X only appears to be recording schedules that have been setup for a while. not sure if there is a threshold of age or previouslyrecorded but it seems to only be schedules that have existed for some period of time

[10:58:52]

Shadow__X:

simora: do you have enough space? does mythbackend mention diskfree?

[10:59:57]

simora:

Shadow__X if i watch mythweb the recording disappears at the start time. if i check epg for the program at the time it should have recorded it displays with a teal or teal'ish color dashed border. MythFrontend under recordings says status "Recorder Offline". Have plenty of space. over 400GB

[11:01:08]

Shadow__X:

hmm and what does myth log say about that

[11:01:23]

simora:

doesn't say anything

[11:02:07]

simora:

mythtv is running with --loglevel debug so i would imagine if there was to be a log it would be there

[11:02:56]

Shadow__X:

hmm can you set something to record on the frontend?

[11:05:04]

simora:

Recording created from MythFrontend for currently airing program works without issue.

[11:05:30]

simora:

grabbed tuner according to priority and appears to be working fine.

[11:09:00]

simora:

next recordings are at :30, one is a rule matching this show only the other is the second recording for a series schedule. the series schedule fired off for the first recording without issue.

[11:12:39]

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[11:15:51]

Shadow__X:

simora: a dashed border means that the recording schedule has been deactivated

[11:16:09]

simora:

teal fast dash?

[11:17:03]

simora:

that appears to be the case. but why would it be deactivating then at starttime when starttime-60s it was good to go?

[11:17:48]

Shadow__X:

simora: not sure look at recording schedules and deactivate them there

[11:19:26]

simora:

Shadow__X: i don't want them deactivated. i don't understand where you are going with that one.

[11:20:16]

Shadow__X:

simora: i meant activate them again

[11:20:21]

Shadow__X:

sorry about that

[11:20:47]

Shadow__X:

under advanced options,schedule options

[11:20:58]

Shadow__X:

i don't know why it would deactivate it

[11:22:45]

simora:

Shadow__X: all of the schedule rules are active. the rule doesn't get deactivated just the recording.

[11:23:54]

Shadow__X:

i don't know what is causing that

[11:24:23]

simora:

is there a "even more logging" option or other sources for information?

[11:25:08]

Shadow__X:

probably with using --verbose

[11:25:18]

Shadow__X:

i would thing mythbackend --help would list it

[11:25:22]

simora:

is --verbose more verbose than --loglevel debug

[11:25:50]

Shadow__X:

i would think so

[11:28:52]

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[11:30:45]

simora:

both recordings fired off. i can't seem to create a new situation that behaves the same as the other recording rules.

[11:33:58]

simora:

next recording that will fail with confidence is in 2.5 hours. mythbackend is running --verbose. i'll see if i get any more logging information. Thank you Shadow__X

[11:35:27]

Shadow__X:

simora: hope that helps and no problem

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[12:08:08]

stuartm:

--loglevel debug is more verbose than anything

[12:09:05]

Shadow__X:

simora: ^

[12:09:15]

stuartm:

--verbose needs to be used with the name of a component and isn't mutually exclusive with loglevel – e.g. "--verbose record --loglevel debug" will print recording related logging including 'debug' messages

[12:09:22]

stuartm:

very, very verbose!

[12:10:09]

stuartm:

see "--verbose help" for a list of components

[12:12:14]

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[12:13:18]

stuartm:

honestly, 'debug' may be overkill for diagnosing your problem, it's there to help developers find bugs or look for optimisations and the sheer volume of output makes it very easy to overlook relevant warnings/errors

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[12:14:46]

stuartm:

simora: in all probability your issue is configuration related and --loglevel debug isn't going to help with that, I'd recommend starting with "--verbose record,channel"

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[12:22:06]

simora:

stuartm: thank you. running backend with that.

[12:22:39]

simora:

stuartm: i would love for it to configuration related but i haven't made any configuration changes.

[12:24:37]

stuartm:

simora: even something like a reboot can have an affect, e.g. for Digital Tuners (USB/PCI), the device nodes can swap places which is a common cause of the problem you're seeing

[12:24:51]

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[12:25:16]

stuartm:

obviously in your case you're using a network tuner, but still it may be related to something on the system rather than MythTV

[12:25:58]

simora:

stuartm: in 1.5 hrs the next recording will fail.

[12:26:30]

stuartm:

simora: you could schedule more recordings to speed up the process

[12:26:38]

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[12:27:47]

simora:

it only appears to be related to existing recording rules or age or something that doesn't exist with recordings i schedule for anything soon. i don't understand what criteria exist to determine a failed recording but creating a rule right now doesn't fail

[12:28:08]

simora:

i could try recreating all my rules but i don't really want to recreate 70 rules

[12:28:10]

stuartm:

well that's definitely strange

[12:28:25]

simora:

storage have over 400GB available over 200GB per drive

[12:28:26]

stuartm:

bizarre even

[12:29:03]

stuartm:

those rules weren't set up with a "preferred input" were they?

[12:29:11]

simora:

nope

[12:30:42]

simora:

it doesn't appear to be a specific channel, program, time or tuner. tuner priorities have the recordings staggered across both my HDHR3-CC

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[12:32:14]

simora:

livetv works off both tuners and created rules record off both tuners. existing rules as of 3 days ago fail.

[12:32:39]

simora:

miss i should say. fail implies i have something stating it failed

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[16:23:24]

sphery:

simora: and you're using "any channel" rules without any "this channel" filter?

[16:24:13]

sphery:

and make sure you set up the HDHR using the auto-detect approach (not typing in an IP address)

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[18:44:27]

stuartm:

does "welav arac" mean anything to anyone? Not sure if it's gibberish or language I don't recognise

[18:54:19]

DavidBrooke:

comcast is encrypting the channels starting march 1st

[18:54:32]

DavidBrooke:

I was looking into my options....

[18:54:52]

DavidBrooke:

if I go the route of a hdhr prime...

[18:55:06]

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[18:55:20]

DavidBrooke:

will the recording capability be the same or less....meaning

[18:56:02]

DavidBrooke:

currently I can record multiple tv recording per tuner if the recordings are on the same transponder

[18:56:29]

DavidBrooke:

will the hdhr prime offer the same capibility?

[18:57:57]

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[18:59:23]

MartinT:

does anyone know why a commercial freesat box is so much better at detecting the start/end of a program than myth?

[18:59:43]

MartinT:

not sure if it's just perception, or whether there is an actualy reason

[18:59:58]

MartinT:

s/actualy/actual

[19:00:29]

stuartm:

what do you mean by 'detecting'?

[19:00:46]

MartinT:

what I mean is... my parents record downton abbey...

[19:00:55]

MartinT:

on a freesat box...

[19:01:11]

MartinT:

then I record it (for the missus) on mythtv...

[19:01:20]

MartinT:

s/then/and

[19:01:55]

MartinT:

there's gets it right at the start, mine is a minute early/late

[19:02:21]

MartinT:

I originally thought it could be the date/time on the mythbox

[19:02:37]

MartinT:

but they are now using ntp for updates and it still happens

[19:03:03]

MartinT:

happened with Agents of Shield the other day that I was late, and they got it bang on

[19:03:16]

stuartm:

MartinT: they monitor the running status of the program, it changes when the programme starts and ends, it can only be used with EIT – there's a patch in Trac adding support to MythTV but it's flawed, I was going to look at implementing it properly for 0.28

[19:03:38]

MartinT:

ahhh...

[19:04:48]

MartinT:

that's what I wanted to know... so as long as you use the transmitted guide data (assuming that's what EIT means) then we should be able to get better accuracy

[19:05:14]

MartinT:

... when you've had a look at that patch...

[19:05:29]

MartinT:

not asking for it, just wanted to know what the issue was

[19:05:56]

stuartm:

MartinT: you should configure the system to start recording a minute early, that will catch early starts – even if I do implement it, it will likely be in the form of starting the recording ahead of the scheduled time then automatically implementing a cut list which trims the bit before the program starts

[19:06:44]

MartinT:

yeah I've started doing that... but had to put it like 2–3 mins for sherlock, and don't really want to have to do that if I don't have to

[19:06:57]

stuartm:

for the end time, we'd need to extend the scheduled end time in increments – possibly 5 minutes at a time

[19:07:33]

MartinT:

the cutlist thing would be perfect... I don't mind it starting recording early...

[19:07:39]

stuartm:

MartinT: hmm, didn't have that same problem with Sherlock here, the BBC are usually very punctual, to within a few seconds (except on BBC Three)

[19:07:59]

MartinT:

hmmm, that's interesting then

[19:08:03]

stuartm:

are you sure the clock is accurate?

[19:08:29]

MartinT:

yeah, checking it regularly... unless my recording ended up being a repeat, from BBC Three

[19:09:07]

MartinT:

missus is getting very click happy with recording now sure knows how to get on mythweb...

[19:09:27]

MartinT:

2TB has been used very fast

[19:10:01]

MartinT:

who needs to record heir hunters... it's the same bloody episode every day!

[19:10:58]

stuartm:

that's what the 'max episodes' stuff is for

[19:12:10]

stuartm:

keep just X number of episodes, delete the old episode when a new one is recorded

[19:14:01]

MartinT:

delete something.... before she's watched it... I won't make that mistake again!

[19:14:50]

MartinT:

Where's my "one born every minute"... oh it was from 9 months ago, and you didn't watch it...

[19:15:41]

MartinT:

don't remember much more of the conversation after that.... throbbing pain, etc.

[19:16:41]

MartinT:

bbiab

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[21:04:03]

justinh:

thankyou, SnakE Oil sellers, for ruining search engine results when I'm looking for local services

[21:04:27]

justinh:

here was I thinking that keyword jamming got you marked down

[21:05:00]

justinh:

van hire in durham, newcastle, scotland, timbuktoo, mars, venus, saturn, jupiter..

[21:09:22]

stuartm:

SEO scum

[21:10:45]

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[21:16:08]

wagnerrp_:

look at all the banned wiki accounts daily

[21:17:33]

stuartm:

wagnerrp_: IMHO we really need something to handle those automatically, you and Steve can't possibly keep up that work indefinitely

[21:18:02]

wagnerrp_:

i've been meaning to write something to check IP addresses with various sources, like the plugin we have on trac

[21:18:03]

stuartm:

trout for the first person to post the recent xkcd on automation

[21:18:41]

stuartm:

given the ubiquity of mediawiki, I can't believe someone hasn't already produced a plugin doing exactly that

[21:18:45]

wagnerrp_:

i can just only make it so far before i remember i don't really enjoy php

[21:19:06]

** wagnerrp_ is headed home **

[21:19:15]

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[21:28:02]

clever:

stuartm: the last time i looked at the spam on my wiki, everything was from @hotmain.com and @msn.com based accounts

[21:28:07]

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[21:28:22]

clever:

just banning those 2 domains would likely cut down on a lot of it

[21:28:54]

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[21:29:25]

justinh:

yeah you don't still allow @aol.com do you?

[21:29:28]

** justinh hides **

[21:29:40]

clever:

i turned on captcha's and email verificationa

[21:29:55]

clever:

and the spam is just coming from those 2 domains, havent noticed any aol

[21:30:31]

stuartm:

clever: I'd ban @gmail.com too

[21:31:12]

clever:

i havent noticed much spam coming from there, and they have pretty aggresive anti-spam stuff, i had to give them a phone# the last time i made an account

[21:35:36]

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[21:36:33]

clever:

stuartm: ah dang, the latest spam was created by a gmail acct!

[21:36:42]

clever:

localmobile68@gmail.com , why!

[21:37:21]

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[21:38:05]

clever:

um, what the...., somebody registered with the email addr {Abigail|Adah|Adan|Adelaide|Adeline|Adina|Adrian|Adrianne|Agatha|Ahmad|Aileen|Aja|Alan|Albert|Albertine|Alden|Alecia|Alejandrina|Alesha|Aletha|Alexa|Alexia|Alfred|Alia|Alida|Alise}aa4@876785.com

[21:38:33]

clever:

i think his email generator is broken, lol

[21:38:36]

stuartm:

heh, someone flogging mobile phones has plenty of phone numbers

[21:38:54]

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[21:39:28]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v jya_

[21:39:30]

stuartm:

last couple of times I created a throwaway gmail account (recently) there was no info that they actually validated

[21:39:54]

stuartm:

can't remember what they asked for, but I filled out all the fields with false info

[21:40:03]

clever:

i had to enter a phone# and then punch in a code that they TTS over the phone

[21:40:20]

stuartm:

clever: hmm, maybe that's specific to the US

[21:40:25]

clever:

and i'm in canada

[21:40:29]

stuartm:

after all it is the spam capital of the world

[21:42:30]

Korny:

step one of server consolidation completed, 4u 25" deep rack mount chasis are a beast, reminds me of the old days before atx-micro came out

[21:43:40]

clever:

mysql> select count(*),substring(user_email,locate('@',user_email)) from user where user_id > 10000 and user_email_authenticated is not null group by substring(user_email,locate('@',user_email)) order by count(*) desc limit 3;

[21:43:53]

clever:

stuartm: looks like the bulk of the spam is now from @yahoo and @aol

[21:43:56]

justinh:

don't buy any 'industrial' PCs from Amplicon btw. we've had a bit of trouble with one at work.. SATA connectors falling off a RAID array? Non locking connectors used

[21:44:23]

clever:

and if i go back further into the user history, @outlook.com takes the lead

[21:44:27]

justinh:

that & the other day the machine failed to boot up.. no BIOS.. nothing. Had to reseat all the PCI cards

[21:51:48]

clever:

stuartm: http://wiki.angeldsis.com/22 this spam makes no sense at all, why even bother?

[21:53:38]

stuartm:

clever: it's a place holder, they create a page that looks innocuous and which isn't recognisable as spam – if you don't delete then search engines will crawl it and again won't discard it as spam, once it's been indexed and appears in search engine results they'll come back and modify it as spam

[21:54:20]

clever:

but do they have to create so many pages that my wiki becomes 99% spam? lol

[21:54:23]

justinh:

I've started seeing blog post spam about using google+. Sometimes I think google are paying somebody to do it

[21:54:43]

justinh:

how to post things to G+ ? WHO GIVES A DAMN?!_

[21:55:07]

clever:

stuartm: and the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" tags, doesnt the fact that i have these defeat the entire purpose?

[21:55:15]

clever:

stuartm: no search engine should trust any link on my wiki

[21:55:53]

clever:

justinh: funny you should mention G+, the link i just copied was a G+ post

[21:56:03]

stuartm:

clever, spammers don't stop to check for that sort of thing, it's all automated, even the place holders are posted by bots

[21:56:51]

stuartm:

spammer just clicks buttons in a control app that they bought for 0.01 bitcoins via a forum on the darknet

[21:57:24]

Korny:

justinh: this is a Rosewill case, surpisingly its not bad considering its newegg generic

[21:58:04]

clever:

stuartm: finaly, i found a spam page where things actualy made sense, the wiki page and the link all had the same topic

[21:58:26]

clever:

its trying to sell diamonds

[22:00:13]

wagnerrp:

clever, justinh: actually, hotmail and msn have been banned domains for some time now

[22:00:23]

clever:

wagnerrp: and outlook.com ?

[22:01:06]

clever:

1838 of the accounts on my wiki are from @outlook.com

[22:01:07]

wagnerrp:

that one too

[22:01:14]

wagnerrp:

hotmail, hotmail.uk, and outlook

[22:01:18]

wagnerrp:

seems we're not blocking msn

[22:02:21]

clever:

heh, the entire page of pages was all spam

[22:03:13]

wagnerrp:

the bulk of our spam comes from either gmail (which we can't block), or one-off disposable domains

[22:03:52]

stuartm:

well we can block it

[22:04:03]

clever:

the top 3 domains for me are 1838 | @outlook.com, 848 | @hotmail.com, 124 | @gmail.com

[22:04:06]

clever:

gmail is small compared to microsoft junk

[22:04:41]

stuartm:

just everyone's brainwashed into loving google

[22:05:10]

clever:

i have tried running my own mail server

[22:05:25]

wagnerrp:

i've been running one for like 6 years

[22:05:29]

clever:

it was dead for a month when the isp changed the modem and became incompatible with my old router

[22:05:50]

clever:

the port wasnt forwarded on the new router, which is still rebooting itself without warning and changing LAN ip's

[22:06:34]

stuartm:

domain + email hosting costs next to nothing, especially compared to what most people are prepared to pay their mobile/internet/tv providers

[22:07:03]

clever:

the email hosting doesnt even register, it just disapears in the power bill

[22:07:32]

clever:

and the domain is about the same cost as schedules direct

[22:07:38]

stuartm:

but no, they'll sell their souls for seemingly free web mail account

[22:07:55]

stuartm:

clever: less, depending on the TLD you choose

[22:08:03]

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[22:08:04]

clever:

i went with earthtools.ca

[22:08:43]

clever:

the main issue i run into, is that most local ISP's block port 25 outgoing, so i cant configure it properly on any mobile device

[22:09:12]

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[22:09:12]

clever:

and my current router cant even forward traffic from inside the lan, so no computer in the house can be setup to use the public domain for receiving email

[22:09:29]

clever:

i have to config the lan ip into the email client, and then it wont work outside the lan

[22:11:02]

clever:

and without a back button in the stupid ipod, you have to reboot the entire device if it ever attempts to connect to port 25 of anything

[22:11:06]

clever:

so it takes several hours to setup email

[22:11:25]

stuartm:

I pay a few dollars a year for a shared hosting account, pocket change, can host as many domains as I want, create as many email addresses as I need, they even offer a selection of webmail clients though I prefer to route everything to my local imap server

[22:12:30]

stuartm:

all uses encrypted connections too

[22:13:04]

justinh:

stuartm: I quite like my gmail account. it has its uses. I'm not going back to using an email client. Ugh

[22:13:12]

clever:

i need to look at something like spam assasin, ive started getting spam for little blue pills, identical image going to completely unrelated addresses on different servers

[22:13:15]

justinh:

I don't even use email from my own domain

[22:13:49]

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[22:55:34]

Korny:

hmmmm this antec power supply I have says it has 2 12volt rails at 38amp, yet if you multiple 38x2x12 its over the 650 watts the power supply is rated for, I'm thinking its a single rail power supply

[22:55:38]

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[22:55:58]

justinh:

oh dear oh dear oh dear. Developer of the house I reserved told me the railway tunnel running between the plots said it was disused. It ain't. That'll be a discount then. Misrepresentin'

[23:00:06]

wagnerrp:

Korny: it's possible both rails are capable of individually supplying ~450W, but the primary transformer is limited to 650W

[23:01:09]

Korny:

Think it should be able to run 15 drives? all but 2 low power? with a very low TDP chip

[23:01:25]

wagnerrp:

run, absolutely

[23:01:37]

wagnerrp:

the ONLY aspect about power you have to worry about is that startup surge

[23:01:39]

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[23:01:56]

Korny:

Thats what I'm worried about

[23:02:10]

wagnerrp:

it should be fine

[23:02:12]

Korny:

I do think one of my controllers staggers the spinup

[23:02:25]

stuartm:

justinh: between the plots, not under them?

[23:02:25]

wagnerrp:

i'm running 14 drives on a 650W antec

[23:02:48]

wagnerrp:

down from the previous 16

[23:03:14]

wagnerrp:

when it was 16 and an older 939 opteron, i did have issues with startup

[23:03:23]

Korny:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KGLDXU/r . . . F8&psc=1

[23:03:41]

Korny:

My chip draws a max of 35 watts so not much power from the chipset

[23:03:57]

stuartm:

Korny: typically dual rail PSUs indicate the total each rail could pull if the other rail was under-utilised

[23:05:16]

stuartm:

so you can't pull 38amp on both simultaneously, but perhaps 38 on one if the other only uses 16 amps

[23:06:16]

stuartm:

in fact somewhat less than 16 since the 650 has to include the 5v rail too

[23:07:33]

Korny:

yah I added the max 5 and 3.3 amp and wtih 38amp on 12volt it was 655 watts lol

[23:10:06]

stuartm:

so 38amp between the two rails, 19amps each if evenly balanced, but any combination should work as it doesn't exceed 38amp total e.g. 22/16, 28/10

[23:11:39]

stuartm:

I recently replaced my dual rail Antec psu with a single rail corsair, not because there was anything wrong exactly with the Antec, but with a single rail it's a lot simpler to know exactly what's going on

[23:12:10]

justinh:

stuartm: under, but between

[23:12:24]

stuartm:

for example, I couldn't actually determine how the rails were split – I assumed one for the motherboard/pci and the other for drives

[23:13:02]

justinh:

sales agent said disused. council doc I was shown also said disused. I made the decision to reserve the plot based upon it being disused, so I want some money off

[23:13:19]

clever:

stuartm: you could maybe ohm out the outputs when the PSU is completely disconnected

[23:13:30]

clever:

and see which 12v lines are directly connected to eachother

[23:19:14]

stuartm:

justinh: :/ probably was disused at some point then brought back into use, but that does spoil any 'evil underground lair' plans you might have had

[23:20:20]

clever:

:D

[23:20:32]

justinh:

muhahahaha. OH

[23:20:39]

clever:

it may also make a good server room, should be cool

[23:20:49]

clever:

setup the master backend in a cave!

[23:21:02]

justinh:

the council search should've been up to date

[23:21:08]

clever:

hmmm, i wonder how long it would last strapped to the wall, even with the tunnel in use?

[23:21:18]

clever:

would just be a bit risky going in to reboot it :P

[23:21:39]

justinh:

according to the documents it's 25m below ground level

[23:22:13]

clever:

might have trouble getting a conduit down there to run power and gigabit

[23:22:51]

stuartm:

25m ... would have taken a fair bit of digging

[23:23:09]

clever:

just find the entrance and walk in

[23:25:56]

stuartm:

not much of a secret lair if you have to walk a mile from to find the entrance that everyone could use :)

[23:26:28]

Korny:

wonder if badblocks will kill this old 1.5 gig seagate I haven't used in a year lol

[23:26:30]

justinh:

the BTP might have something to say about it

[23:28:07]

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[23:29:26]

skd5aner:

jya: good to hear you tracked down a cause! silly hard drives :P

[23:33:09]

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[23:42:07]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: have you still not had a chance to look at ZB Block for the wiki? http://www.spambotsecurity.com/zbblock.php

[23:43:49]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: It's about 99.999999999999999% effective for a few forums I run (without it, I get dozens of false accounts created daily). Never tried it for mediawiki, but it says it's supported...

[23:45:36]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: probably save you a lot of time if you just find 30 mins to install and config – it's pretty drop dead simple to use, and is install-and-forget (for the most part)

[23:45:39]

wagnerrp:

i'd rather have something that actually interfaces with the wiki, rather than sits below it

[23:45:49]

skd5aner:

why?

[23:46:05]

wagnerrp:

just personal preference, the ability to make some sort of admin page

[23:46:39]

skd5aner:

it has it's own admin page,of sorts

[23:48:26]

skd5aner:

well, your choice ultimately, but... I've been extremely happy with it and it sounds like you're constantly fighting a losing battle. I've never found a better spam prevention tool for my php sites ever

[23:49:48]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: also, reduces the bandwidth since it intercepts bad behavior before rendering the site

[23:51:03]

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[23:57:51]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: as someone who uses hotmail and gmail accounts, I'd much rather you use something like that than banning entire domains :(

[23:58:31]

skd5aner:

kinda de-values a wiki if someone wants to contribute but can't because they happen to have an email provider that is banned

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