| Wednesday, September 4th, 2013, 00:05 UTC | ||
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| [02:07:56] | bill6502: | jya: Do you need more information from me on #10867 ? Or do I need to do something to change the information needed status. |
| [02:07:56] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10867 ** | |
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| [02:52:17] | kamamam: | groan |
| [02:52:20] | kamamam: | to make matters worse |
| [02:52:24] | kamamam: | xbmc works with the remote perfectly |
| [02:52:35] | kamamam: | i can only break one or the other |
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| [10:47:12] | raven_: | terratec cinergy+ dvb-t device: tuner seems "frozen" to frequency 568m on 3 different machines tested with mythtv and kaffeine. only one mux available, getting epg data for other programs but no ts – any idea whats going on there? |
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| [14:13:19] | DonkeyHotei: | i'm using xbmc as a frontend, and it makes a distinction between "tv" channels and "radio" channels. how do i segregate them in the lineup? |
| [14:13:25] | DonkeyHotei: | the "scan channels" thing in mythtv-setup seems to make a distinction between tv services and radio services, but it doesn't work with a ceton card |
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| [14:22:07] | sphery: | DonkeyHotei: no idea what you mean by "segregate them in the lineup" |
| [14:23:09] | DonkeyHotei: | well, on scannable sources, one can scan for tv, radio, or "all" |
| [14:23:19] | sphery: | I will say that MythTV allows you to edit channel names, numbers, and call signs as much as you like with any of the channel editors (mythtv-setup, mythweb, or mythfrontend), so if you just want them grouped, you can do so that way |
| [14:23:32] | DonkeyHotei: | how does one assign certain channels to be "radio" with a ceton? |
| [14:23:54] | DonkeyHotei: | so that they are no longer detected as tv channels |
| [14:24:11] | sphery: | you can't? |
| [14:24:22] | sphery: | the channel is either radio or tv |
| [14:24:42] | DonkeyHotei: | but how does it know which? |
| [14:24:46] | sphery: | if you're trying to get MythTV to only include tv channels, just add /only/ those channels to your Schedules Direct lineup |
| [14:24:57] | sphery: | and leave out the radio channels |
| [14:25:24] | DonkeyHotei: | xbmc has a category "radio channels" which is backend-dependent |
| [14:25:32] | DonkeyHotei: | and empty |
| [14:25:52] | sphery: | no clue how xbmc does what it does |
| [14:26:08] | sphery: | we support the use of mythfrontend--which allows you to take full advantage of all the features in MythTV |
| [14:26:25] | sphery: | and xbmc does whatever it does however it chooses and without input from us |
| [14:26:25] | DonkeyHotei: | the channel scanning thing in mythtv-setup has an option to scan for radio |
| [14:27:24] | DonkeyHotei: | what does the channel scanner do different for "radio" services from "tv" ones? |
| [14:27:39] | DonkeyHotei: | in mythtv-setup |
| [14:27:55] | sphery: | well, I'm 99.9999999999% positive there's absolutely no way in mythtv to mark a channel as radio or tv only |
| [14:27:59] | sphery: | so it's something they're doing |
| [14:28:01] | sphery: | so ask them |
| [14:28:19] | DonkeyHotei: | then why is the option there in mythtv-setup? |
| [14:28:46] | sphery: | in the scanner, I think if /at the time of the scan/ the channel is only broadcasting audio and/or /extremely/ low-bitrate video, and you said to ignore radio channels, it doesn't add the channel |
| [14:29:08] | sphery: | i.e. we make a guess based on a very-easily-bad assumption |
| [14:29:32] | sphery: | but, again, for xbmc support, ask in #xbmc |
| [14:29:37] | DonkeyHotei: | but based on whether to include radio, it would be added to the same list? |
| [14:29:42] | sphery: | yes |
| [14:29:46] | sphery: | channel is a channel in mythtv |
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| [14:29:58] | sphery: | and there's no identifier for "channel type" |
| [14:30:04] | DonkeyHotei: | ok, thanks for clarifying that |
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| [14:31:23] | DonkeyHotei: | in the ceton card's web interface, i can see the entire channel map retrieved from the cable card. there should be a way to use that in the icon downloader |
| [14:32:54] | DonkeyHotei: | the names in it don't exactly match the names from schedulesdirect, which in turn don't match the names in the icon database |
| [14:33:43] | DonkeyHotei: | sphery: and, is there any way to get closed captioning from a ceton card in myth? |
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| [15:13:58] | sphery: | with a ceton card (and any digital capture device), you get whatever the broacaster gives you, so if they broacast closed captions, you get themn |
| [15:15:59] | sphery: | DonkeyHotei: and, yes, the names the channel broadcasts don't necessarily (usually?) match the names used by Schedules Direct (and, since the names in the broadcast change /very/ frequently even when the channel ownership/contents stay the same, SD can't be changing their names constantly to keep up) |
| [15:16:29] | sphery: | which is why you use the icon downloader, match up your channels to the proper icon, and the downloader asks if you want to upload your results |
| [15:17:11] | sphery: | when you do, mythtv's channel icon download service remembers which you matched and when enough users match the same icon to the same channel, that becomes the suggested icon for the channel |
| [15:18:21] | sphery: | DonkeyHotei: also, regarding captions, note that most video players (as opposed to purpose-built DVR TV players, like the one in MythTV) don't know how to do EIA-608 (NTSC) and EIA-708 (ATSC) captions |
| [15:18:42] | sphery: | so, if xbmc is doing something like using mplayer or xine for playback of video, that's yet one more reason you should use mythfrontend instead |
| [15:31:54] | DonkeyHotei: | sphery: does mythfrontend handle EIA-708? |
| [15:42:55] | sphery: | yes |
| [15:42:58] | sphery: | DonkeyHotei: ^^^ |
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| [16:52:08] | DonkeyHotei: | sphery: there appears no option for it in mythtv-setup |
| [16:53:40] | sphery: | DonkeyHotei: it just records whatever it's given |
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| [16:53:59] | sphery: | DonkeyHotei: in playback, you enable decoding and display of captions with the menu or the keyboard shortcut |
| [16:54:31] | sphery: | again, you almost definitely have captions in the video (assuming you're in the US) because the FCC requires them to be there |
| [16:54:45] | sphery: | but you need a player that can decode and display them--something like mythfrontend |
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| [17:03:29] | DonkeyHotei: | sphery: interesting. it just doesn't seem to be passed to xbmc, which claims the captions are not present |
| [17:05:19] | DonkeyHotei: | i still think using the channel names from the cablecard for would be useful for icon download, though |
| [17:05:39] | DonkeyHotei: | s/ for// |
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| [17:11:08] | dekarl: | DonkeyHotei: see #8774, there is no making some data from no data |
| [17:11:08] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8774 ** | |
| [17:11:57] | dekarl: | but if we start doing that we need to unify handling of DTV Radio with HLS Radio and Shoutcast Radio or it would not be mythical :) |
| [17:13:12] | DonkeyHotei: | i think my question relating to that was pretty much settled |
| [17:13:39] | dekarl: | the scanner simply looks at the service_type flag in the service information |
| [17:14:34] | DonkeyHotei: | one thing that irks me, though, is that there is no channel scanning for tuneability despite schedulesdirect not automatically providing that data |
| [17:14:46] | raven_: | terratec cinergy+ dvb-t device: tuner seems "frozen" to frequency 568m on 3 different machines tested with mythtv and kaffeine. only one mux available, getting epg data for other programs but no ts – any idea whats going on there? |
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| [17:15:38] | DonkeyHotei: | i mean, how difficult could it be to have the channels scanned? |
| [17:15:55] | DonkeyHotei: | it's done for other tuners |
| [17:21:53] | dekarl: | raven_: one mux can carry the guide for other muxes. That would explain why you see guide data for them, even though they are not tuneable |
| [17:22:20] | dekarl: | raven_: can't say why the tuning doesn't work. sounds like a hardware question |
| [17:23:35] | raven_: | dekarl, but where to ask? |
| [17:24:18] | dekarl: | maybe #linuxtv? |
| [17:24:31] | raven_: | i did too |
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| [17:49:14] | sphery: | DonkeyHotei: Again, I would bet that the xbmc video player--like nearly all other video players--doesn't support EIA-608/708 captions. They generally support subtitles of varying formats (mostly those of, for example, DVDs or MKVs or random "piratey" formats), but almost never support *TV* caption formats. |
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| [17:52:50] | DonkeyHotei: | sphery: the exact error is "teletext not available" |
| [17:53:03] | sphery: | right, because teletext captions aren't used in the US |
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| [17:53:48] | sphery: | EIA-608 captions (or "VBI captions") and EIA-708 captions (ATSC captions) are very different from teletext captions (which could have been used in the US, but never were) |
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| [17:54:44] | DonkeyHotei: | you're tempting me to abandon the idea of xbmc as a frontend |
| [17:54:46] | sphery: | for the most part teletext was only really ever used in the UK |
| [17:55:16] | DonkeyHotei: | does mythfrontend support libcec? |
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| [17:56:03] | sphery: | there's something to be said for using the tool that was developed to take full advantage of everything mythbackend does and to work properly with (real-world--not just "idealized by standards") video formats used in TV :) |
| [17:56:12] | sphery: | kind of, but mostly no |
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| [17:56:55] | sphery: | AIUI mythfrontend built with libcec support will turn on your TV when you (start mythfrontend? playback? hit a button?) |
| [17:56:58] | sphery: | but that's it |
| [17:57:17] | sphery: | so you're really much better off using MythTV System Events and scripts to do whatever you want with CEC |
| [17:57:27] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV_System_Events |
| [17:57:35] | DonkeyHotei: | no changes of channel nor up down left right in the menus? |
| [17:57:41] | sphery: | or just coding actions into remote button presses, etc |
| [17:58:12] | sphery: | um, well, mythtv actually controls tuners and, therefore, can be used to change channels |
| [17:58:32] | sphery: | and mythtv has menus and you can use up/down/left/right to navigate them |
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| [17:58:50] | sphery: | but as for mythtv sending up/down/left/right to some "built-in-to-your-TV" menu, no |
| [17:58:55] | DonkeyHotei: | well, if the pulse-eight adapter can generate remote button presses mythfrontend can use, all the better |
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| [17:59:22] | sphery: | and I don't think we ever will (as why would you need to since the idea behind mythtv is to plug a "smart" DVR into a dumb display--meaning you only need a screen) |
| [17:59:30] | DonkeyHotei: | no, i meant from the tv to myth |
| [17:59:40] | sphery: | so using your TV remote to control mythtv? |
| [17:59:44] | DonkeyHotei: | yes |
| [17:59:48] | sphery: | we expect you have a mythtv remote |
| [18:00:22] | sphery: | that could actually be the same remote that came with your tv, but you'd really want to make sure the TV doesn't do anything with the signals it sends |
| [18:00:52] | sphery: | generally you'd use LIRC to receive remote events and send them to mythtv, which responds to them however you desire |
| [18:00:53] | DonkeyHotei: | it sends cec to the pulse-eight adapter, which is usb |
| [18:01:50] | sphery: | well, I'm not the guy to ask about it--I've never seen a valid use for CEC because I'm all about the TV being a dumb display-only device |
| [18:02:07] | sphery: | but the only thing mythtv can do with cec is turn on a tv |
| [18:02:10] | sphery: | maybe turn it off |
| [18:02:16] | sphery: | but I don't think we even do that |
| [18:02:41] | DonkeyHotei: | it would be useful to use cec as the mythtv remote |
| [18:02:49] | sphery: | generally, people get good remotes, designed for use with DVRs and use them with LIRC to send the signal directly to the computer |
| [18:02:49] | raven_: | how to reset the recording database? i cannot delete entries which are already deleted |
| [18:02:52] | sphery: | and just cut out the middle man |
| [18:03:11] | sphery: | raven_: never delete files off the file system using file system tools--always use mythtv to do it |
| [18:03:28] | DonkeyHotei: | too many remotes around, though |
| [18:03:32] | raven_: | i know but the problem exists |
| [18:03:36] | sphery: | raven_: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Q . . . t_on_disk.3F |
| [18:04:02] | sphery: | and, if you have too many to do individually, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Find_orphans.py |
| [18:04:15] | raven_: | ok tnx |
| [18:04:51] | sphery: | DonkeyHotei: if done right, you have one remote that talks to the (smart) computer that runs mythtv (and you can even set up LIRC transmitters to allow that smart computer to send signals to any other device you're using) |
| [18:05:35] | DonkeyHotei: | what i have in mind is the same, but have the tv remote be the one remote |
| [18:05:52] | sphery: | that works fine... just cut out the tv :) |
| [18:06:19] | DonkeyHotei: | it even has a "dvr" button that doesn't do anything on the tv |
| [18:06:21] | sphery: | or write a bunch of scripts that you can use with some external CEC "manager" program to respond to those CEC events and do the right thing |
| [18:06:31] | sphery: | because mythtv doesn't support it |
| [18:07:06] | DonkeyHotei: | what if lirc just used the cec? |
| [18:07:22] | sphery: | don't know if it will, but if so, that would work fine |
| [18:07:30] | sphery: | mythtv just doesn't do anything useful with cec |
| [18:07:58] | DonkeyHotei: | what about a simple dev/input setup*? |
| [18:08:03] | DonkeyHotei: | -* |
| [18:08:21] | sphery: | and the version of libcec shipped with the most-popular-for-mythtv distro happens to have a major bug that causes a crash (meaning mythtv dies because of the bad library) |
| [18:08:46] | sphery: | not sure if they updated it (but we still get bug reports about it--and we can't do anything to fix a broken library) |
| [18:09:08] | DonkeyHotei: | mythbuntu? |
| [18:09:24] | sphery: | you can use linux kernel keyboard support for remotes--just like you can use keyboards in mythtv--but it's the wrong way to use a remote |
| [18:09:30] | sphery: | (despite what 99% of users think) |
| [18:09:38] | sphery: | *buntu |
| [18:09:43] | sphery: | (not just mythbuntu) |
| [18:10:26] | sphery: | mainly the problem with using the remote as a keyboard is you have to individually edit the key bindings for every single application with which you want to use the remote so that the button labeled "TV" does the right thing in all those apps |
| [18:10:28] | DonkeyHotei: | there are libcec versions in ppa's |
| [18:10:34] | sphery: | I don't know |
| [18:10:53] | sphery: | I don't (and won't ever) have libcec support in my MythTV :) |
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| [18:12:57] | DonkeyHotei: | i don't want to have to have an extra remote nor to have the htpc box in line of sight of it |
| [18:12:57] | sphery: | anyway, you can probably make cec work, but you'll need something outside mythtv to do it (just like you need lirc or kernel keyboard support for remotes to use "normal" remotes with mythtv) |
| [18:13:17] | sphery: | my mythtv boxes are all in a different room |
| [18:13:46] | sphery: | you can always run a receiver anywhere you like with a proper cable or use an RF remote (though there aren't any good ones) |
| [18:13:51] | DonkeyHotei: | i'm getting the pulse-eight internal adapter in particular |
| [18:15:19] | DonkeyHotei: | i've equipped the box with lirc_sir capability for mce remotes for completeness, but again, an fourth remote is a bit much |
| [18:15:26] | sphery: | you may want to ensure that works in GNU/Linux and/or with pulse 8's libcec |
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| [18:15:44] | sphery: | if so, mythtv can use it--but only for the useless "turn on tv" thing |
| [18:16:09] | sphery: | I know their "external" adapter works with libcec |
| [18:16:14] | DonkeyHotei: | i'm more interested in using it to control the dvr |
| [18:16:18] | sphery: | if their internal one does, then it should be fine |
| [18:16:43] | sphery: | but you'll have to do anything useful outside of mythtv with something else interfacing with cec |
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| [18:19:14] | DonkeyHotei: | so libcec is for sending cec? not receiving? |
| [18:20:09] | sphery: | that may well be |
| [18:20:35] | sphery: | I half remember hearing someone say that it only currently supports sending and will get receive support at some unspecified time in the future |
| [18:20:57] | sphery: | and, ttbomk, it's the only cec implementation for gnu/linux... |
| [18:22:08] | DonkeyHotei: | ok, next concern: 3D TV playback |
| [18:22:19] | sphery: | ask someone else, though--I don't follow the cec stuff |
| [18:22:49] | sphery: | there was some initial support for 3d tv playback, but due to lack of standardization and differing formats it may or may not work properly for you |
| [18:23:18] | DonkeyHotei: | what does it require? |
| [18:23:22] | sphery: | and the dev who worked on it is no longer working on the project and I don't know of any others interested in it |
| [18:23:32] | sphery: | luck? |
| [18:24:08] | sphery: | (if you get a 3d tv signal and it's in the format(s) supported and you have a sufficiently powerful frontend and video card and tv and ? it should just work) |
| [18:24:29] | sphery: | or 3d non-tv video |
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| [18:29:33] | DonkeyHotei: | what 3d formats are supported? |
| [18:30:21] | DonkeyHotei: | i picked this card specifically because it was the lowest-power card supporting "nvidia 3d tv play" |
| [18:32:26] | sphery: | don't know |
| [18:32:54] | sphery: | I'm talking more about the encoded format, though (like side by side versus...) |
| [18:35:51] | DonkeyHotei: | i have so far not encountered a format that was not side by side, though the tv supports top/bottom also |
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| [18:41:39] | DonkeyHotei: | sphery: is there a discussion thread you can link to? |
| [18:41:57] | raven: | possible to setup a slave backend on another machine which is not used as frontend which provides more receivers to the network? |
| [18:44:05] | sphery: | raven: yes, that's exactly what slave/remote backends are |
| [18:44:19] | sphery: | you can always choose to run either or both of mythfrontend and mythbackend on any host |
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| [18:44:39] | raven: | ok i simply need to install the backend on the other machine? |
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| [19:03:48] | sphery: | raven: install and configure it (mythtv-setup to configure capture cards and connect inputs) |
| [19:04:27] | sphery: | DonkeyHotei: I don't have any links for it, but you can search list archives at http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ |
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| [19:29:58] | raven: | sphery, do they need the same version? i were not asked for the master backend password – where do they meet? |
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| [19:41:39] | sphery: | raven: yes, same version (at least major version, assuming you're using a stable version, such as 0.26) |
| [19:42:15] | sphery: | and you may or may not be asked for the DB password, depending on password you've chosen, whether you've set a PIN and ... |
| [19:42:38] | sphery: | but make sure your distro isn't setting up another master backend system with its own database |
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| [20:00:45] | devinheitmueller: | sphery: the EIA-608 support in VLC is actually pretty good at this point. |
| [20:01:31] | devinheitmueller: | Also, Kaffeine has support for EIA-608 (since it uses Xine) but last I checked it just doesn't work with ATSC streams. |
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| [20:43:22] | tgm4883: | sphery, looks like our bad. We pushed the libcec update to the 0.25 ppa, but not the 0.26 or 0.27 ppa. Let me fix that |
| [20:45:24] | tgm4883: | sphery, wait, nm, it looks like it's already fixed |
| [20:45:45] | tgm4883: | we pushed it to the 0.25 PPA for releases before 12.04, it's fixed in 12.04 and later it seems |
| [20:45:56] | tgm4883: | so if you are still getting tickets on that, then it's probably something else |
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| [21:21:09] | raven: | what would you prefer to distribute dvb-t signals from one antenna to 4 receivers: 1 active antenna with 3 passive y-parts in cascade or a passive antenna with active 4x distributor? |
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| [21:27:04] | sphery: | tgm4883: ah, good that it's fixed, now. wasn't sure of the status |
| [21:27:20] | sphery: | we haven't gotten one for a while, so I'm sure it's fine, now |
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| [23:32:56] | DonkeyHotei: | ok, i decided to give mythfrontend a try. i'm in the setup wizard, at the video config screen, clicked Test Standard Definition, and it downloads a video sample over and over in a loop. how do i get out of this? Esc does nothing |
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| [23:45:04] | skd5aner: | DonkeyHotei: what version? |
| [23:45:31] | DonkeyHotei: | 0.26 from the mythbuntu ppa |
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| [23:58:11] | DonkeyHotei: | skd5aner: it's still looping and i'd rather it didn't |
| [23:58:33] | skd5aner: | hmmmm, odd |
| [23:58:38] | skd5aner: | what do the logs say? |
| [23:58:52] | DonkeyHotei: | what path? |
| [23:59:08] | skd5aner: | I think it's under /var/logs somewhere |
| [23:59:14] | skd5aner: | not sure on standard mythbuntu |
| [23:59:36] | skd5aner: | also, you can kill it off by doing a "killall mythfrontend" from the cli |
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