Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, August 30th, 2013, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:00]

sphery:

i.e. from 1950 ish

[00:00:09]

sphery:

what cable company?

[00:00:14]

Hydr0p0nX:

charter

[00:00:29]

sphery:

not sure if they encrypt stuff (but if they don't, they likely will very soon)

[00:00:53]

sphery:

but, the best bet is to get digital cable... see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable

[00:00:58]

Hydr0p0nX:

i get about 65 channels on my tv w/o a cable box

[00:01:37]

sphery:

unfortunately, with GNU/Linux (and all F/LOSS), you're limited to only using those channels encrypted for conditional access (i.e. "copy freely") and can't ever use those encrypted for DRM (i.e. "copy once" or "copy never")

[00:01:45]

sphery:

see the CableCARD section

[00:02:06]

sphery:

likely you don't have much in the way of unencrypted QAM, so probably won't find much use with that

[00:03:05]

sphery:

if your cable co doesn't support CableCARD or locks everything down (with copy once/copy never), your option for good-quality picture on GNU/Linux is the HD-PVR and a cable-company STB with Component (high-def analog) output

[00:03:17]

Hydr0p0nX:

if they're encrypted i should need a cable box, right?

[00:04:22]

sphery:

if they're encrypted for DRM, yes

[00:04:51]

sphery:

if they're encrypted for conditional access (i.e. meaning only to prevent people without a subscription that includes the channels from accessing them), then no--CableCARD should work for you

[00:05:02]

Hydr0p0nX:

ah

[00:05:17]

sphery:

so, basically, it all depends on whether charter marks the content as "copy freely" or "copy once"/"copy never"

[00:05:20]

Hydr0p0nX:

i'm able to watch w/o a cable box in the bedroom

[00:05:43]

sphery:

if it's HDTV, that's almost definitely unencrypted QAM

[00:05:49]

Hydr0p0nX:

assumed, i should be able to get the same channel/quality with myth

[00:06:09]

sphery:

if it's not, it may well be analog NTSC format

[00:06:45]

sphery:

yes, you should be able to

[00:07:02]

sphery:

(though if your TV has a cablecard, perhaps not--it may be able to do copy once/copy never)

[00:07:42]

Hydr0p0nX:

i don't have a cable card for it

[00:07:43]

Hydr0p0nX:

lol

[00:08:04]

Hydr0p0nX:

so what i've done is run the script about 3/4 down this page: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1498620&page=2

[00:08:21]

Hydr0p0nX:

and get 0% signal on all tuner channels

[00:11:50]

skd5aner:

Ugh... for the life of me I can't set up a new recording rule via mythweb anymore :P

[00:11:52]

skd5aner:

so frustrating

[00:20:49]

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[00:33:26]

Hydr0p0nX:

any ideas ?

[00:33:40]

Hydr0p0nX:

my next stop is to load win 7 and make sure it works there

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[02:24:46]

croccydile:

Hydr0p0nX: still there?

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[02:51:43]

Hydr0p0nX:

yep

[02:52:03]

croccydile:

Hydr0p0nX: You still having issues with that

[02:52:32]

Hydr0p0nX:

loaded win7 mce and get a whopping 5 channels detected, and no signal reported on the analog side =/

[02:52:46]

croccydile:

Which card was it again

[02:52:52]

Hydr0p0nX:

hvr-1600

[02:53:14]

croccydile:

I know you wont see anything under scan under linux, you have to fill channels from source instead

[02:53:37]

Hydr0p0nX:

i pulled it from schedules direct, still nothing

[02:53:41]

croccydile:

The easiest way to tell if it works or not is use ivtv-tune to manually set the channel and do the cheap cat /dev/video0 > test.mpg and play it

[02:54:06]

croccydile:

No video then eh?

[02:54:09]

Hydr0p0nX:

nope

[02:54:33]

croccydile:

you could always try this

[02:54:33]

Hydr0p0nX:

gonna try to get it working in windows, if I can great, i know what to do config wise in myth

[02:54:35]

croccydile:

options saa7164 debug=1 fw_debug=0 encoder_buffers=512 vbi_buffers=128

[02:54:37]

croccydile:

options tda18271 cal=1

[02:54:50]

Hydr0p0nX:

what's that ?

[02:55:08]

croccydile:

modprobe options, if I dont do that with my 2250 it does not behave well

[02:55:15]

Hydr0p0nX:

ah

[02:55:25]

Hydr0p0nX:

I don't see the saa module get loaded

[02:55:36]

croccydile:

hrm not sure what chip is on the 1600 then

[02:55:49]

Hydr0p0nX:

cx18 firmware

[02:55:55]

Hydr0p0nX:

cx23418 i think ?

[02:56:00]

croccydile:

oh connexant based

[02:56:05]

Hydr0p0nX:

yea

[02:56:17]

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[02:56:19]

Hydr0p0nX:

read about a lot of signal quality issues out of it

[02:56:31]

croccydile:

my old pvr-500 was similarly brain damaged

[02:56:41]

croccydile:

That stupid thing NEVER worked right

[02:57:00]

Hydr0p0nX:

yea, i read that it was supported, stopped researching

[02:57:01]

Hydr0p0nX:

lol

[02:57:04]

Hydr0p0nX:

oops

[02:57:09]

croccydile:

hauppauge cards are often hit or miss, and the fact they even work in linux at all I guess is amazing in itself

[02:57:18]

Hydr0p0nX:

if it works, it works great

[02:57:31]

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[02:57:34]

croccydile:

yeah the 2250 works pretty good outside of the 2nd ATSC is unreliable for driver reasons

[02:57:43]

croccydile:

also the comb filter is quite good on it too

[02:58:02]

Hydr0p0nX:

gonna try to find one cheap and local

[02:58:08]

croccydile:

my hd-pvr is still a bit picky, sometimes it stops working

[02:58:17]

croccydile:

have to power cycle it

[02:58:21]

Hydr0p0nX:

that way if it's not right, i can take it back same day

[02:58:22]

Hydr0p0nX:

eh

[02:58:51]

Hydr0p0nX:

i modified the raid bios on my board to support 2tb drives

[02:58:57]

Hydr0p0nX:

lol

[02:59:01]

croccydile:

:o

[02:59:17]

Hydr0p0nX:

now i have 3x2tb for storage

[02:59:25]

Hydr0p0nX:

and recording is iffy at best

[02:59:27]

croccydile:

I dont have... that much

[02:59:41]

Hydr0p0nX:

i caught em on sale

[02:59:58]

croccydile:

my 2250 has been solid since figuring it out... which honestly was much harder than it should have been

[03:00:20]

croccydile:

most pages about it in mythtv were pretty weak, it was only after finding some guys random blog did I finally figure it out

[03:01:19]

croccydile:

As such, if you do get the card go directly to http://yetanothermythtvguide.blogspot.com/

[03:01:21]

Hydr0p0nX:

yea, that's how i got it to work for 3 straight weeks

[03:01:36]

Hydr0p0nX:

then it randomly broke again and hasn't worked since :)

[03:02:28]

croccydile:

I dont use mythtv as a frontend really either since it almost never works as livetv for me, I just record and watch later over the network

[03:03:15]

croccydile:

Additionally there are minor tweaks for the 2250 that should be applied as well, namely the default volume is TOO LOUD and the sharpness is too high

[03:05:03]

croccydile:

Oh yeah and I get best results with the max bitrate CBR 6500kbit and enabling b-frames

[03:05:44]

croccydile:

That is the one drawback about the 2250 in hindsight, the maximum bitrate is a bit low for mpeg2 especially compared to older cards. PVR-150 could do 12000kbit

[03:06:24]

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[03:08:39]

Hydr0p0nX:

yea, that was my main plan

[03:09:01]

Hydr0p0nX:

it's on a box w/ wireless g and connects >100mb/s

[03:09:38]

croccydile:

I'm not sure why live tv is so poor for me, but meh who cares the TV is hooked up normally in addition to the mythbox so it can be watched as such

[03:09:56]

Hydr0p0nX:

so i intended to use the web interface for scheduling recordings and stream it to the desktops that are connected to the tvs

[03:10:01]

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[03:10:18]

wagnerrp:

802.11G and >100Mbps? that doesn't sound right...

[03:10:25]

croccydile:

never bothered with the web interface, that machine has x11vnc so I just use the frontend cheating like that

[03:10:37]

Hydr0p0nX:

errr

[03:10:41]

Hydr0p0nX:

n, not g

[03:10:42]

Hydr0p0nX:

lol

[03:10:59]

wagnerrp:

still, is that actually the data rate or just the connection speed?

[03:11:20]

wagnerrp:

if i didn't need mobility, i would take 100baset over 802.11n any day of the week

[03:11:21]

Hydr0p0nX:

every connection shows 110 – 130

[03:11:39]

wagnerrp:

transfer, not connection

[03:11:39]

Hydr0p0nX:

oh me too, but i'm lazy and don't want to run the cable proper

[03:11:59]

Hydr0p0nX:

haven't done much to tax it really

[03:12:00]

wagnerrp:

if your connection reports 110–130mbps, your transfers are probably going to go less than half that

[03:12:29]

croccydile:

wagnerrp: with poorer routers yes... even with my RT-N16 under ideal conditions the best ive ever seen in actual thruoutput with WPA is just under 100mbit

[03:12:55]

Hydr0p0nX:

that's the router i have

[03:13:04]

Hydr0p0nX:

and my house is ~45ft long

[03:13:07]

croccydile:

Its quite good for the price ^^

[03:13:07]

Hydr0p0nX:

1 level

[03:13:09]

wagnerrp:

with all routers

[03:13:28]

wagnerrp:

it's simply a function of wireless networks being unreliable, so you have coding overhead and retransmits

[03:13:30]

Hydr0p0nX:

and the signal is good for 3 houses down

[03:13:56]

croccydile:

I think the only router even capable of actually hitting N speeds is the AC based Asus router

[03:14:23]

wagnerrp:

i consider "N speeds" as anything above the typical 20–25Mbps of G

[03:14:37]

croccydile:

well I meant like the baseline of 150mbit for N

[03:15:00]

wagnerrp:

right. that's the single channel symbol rate, not data rate

[03:15:14]

croccydile:

I have not experienced AC yet, hopefully would be much better than N given its lowest speed is faster than N at its best

[03:15:15]

wagnerrp:

if you're connected at 150mbps, you're never going to transfer data anywhere near that

[03:15:22]

croccydile:

I understand that

[03:15:49]

wagnerrp:

AC is basically just N with wider channels

[03:16:03]

croccydile:

yeah 80mhz

[03:17:23]

wagnerrp:

80 is the minimum for rated gear. it allows up to 160

[03:22:57]

croccydile:

My last issue to figure out is a method to cycle the HD-PVR daily

[03:23:09]

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[03:25:18]

wagnerrp:

one of the devs a few years back was building "hdpvr killer" boxes

[03:25:51]

wagnerrp:

basically, a little USB-attached solid state relay

[03:26:04]

wagnerrp:

plug the AC adapter into it, plug it into the hdpvr

[03:26:11]

croccydile:

Yeah I saw afew posts about using a cron job, although it involved checking mythweb to see if it was in use first. I figured I may try a "blind" module reloader at say 5am when its very unlikely to have anything recording

[03:26:31]

croccydile:

The thing does work well, although after a few days it can get stuck

[03:26:41]

[R]:

i use a dumb relay just tied to usb 5v and my backend shuts off when its idle

[03:26:47]

[R]:

i've been running for a few years like that... no problems

[03:26:54]

sphery:

https://sites.google.com/site/hdpvrkillerdevice/

[03:28:01]

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[03:28:43]

sphery:

or there's the do-it-yourself version: https://github.com/Beirdo/hdpvr-killer

[03:29:08]

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croccydile:

yay

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croccydile:

In the meantime... how its made is best show

[03:37:26]

wagnerrp:

so what do i do with a spare 3TB drive?

[03:37:42]

[R]:

open it up

[03:37:46]

wagnerrp:

(two, actually)

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DonkeyHotei:

is it simply not possible to scan channels on a ceton card?

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wagnerrp:

DonkeyHotei: theres no reason to. pull your channels from your schedules direct account

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[15:23:08]

DonkeyHotei:

wagnerrp: then what is the scan function there for?

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wagnerrp:

no one thought to remove it

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[15:40:35]

DonkeyHotei:

wagnerrp: ok, what WAS it there for?

[15:41:03]

wagnerrp:

copy paste from some other input type

[15:42:35]

DonkeyHotei:

so there is no way to scan and see what's drm'ed and what's not?

[15:42:52]

wagnerrp:

channels aren't DRM'd, shows are

[15:43:01]

DonkeyHotei:

ok

[15:43:21]

wagnerrp:

and they can even change those flags in the middle of a show

[15:44:15]

wagnerrp:

there was a big stink a couple years back when when comcast turned on copy protection mid-way through some football game and hosed a bunch of peoples' recordings

[15:45:34]

DonkeyHotei:

i wonder whether it would have been any different over firewire

[15:45:51]

wagnerrp:

nope, firewire obeys the same exact copy protection flags as cablecard tuners

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carbon_:

I am unable to record to my second hard drive. I added the drive to my fstab – <dev> <mount point> ext4 auto,rw,noatime 0 0. I also ensured the premission of the drive and folder had mythtv as the user:group. Any ideas? Thank you.

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[22:14:49]

carbon_:

Oh. I setup a separate storage directory. works fine under default but will not work when using any location of the 2nd HDD.

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[22:28:05]

bill6502:

carbon_: Did you create a " a separate storage directory" or storage group?

[22:29:28]

carbon_:

a separate storage directory

[22:30:07]

bill6502:

so you added a directory on your new drive to the existing Default storage group?

[22:32:39]

carbon_:

I created a folder on my second HD named recordings. Then I went into the backend settings, went to "7. storage directories" then "(Create new group)" and pathed it to the folder on my second HD.?

[22:34:17]

bill6502:

That's OK if you want to have a 2nd storage group. But then did you change your recording rules to use the new group?

[22:35:44]

bill6502:

Or, did you really want to add the new path to your existing Default storage group (and leave the recording rules alone?)

[22:37:12]

carbon_:

either at this point. I created a new group&directory for testing. everytime i try to set this as my recording location, the light on my tuner turns on for a couple seconds then off, and nothing records

[22:37:44]

carbon_:

I read a thread where it stated you need to have +o permission added to the root of the drive and the recording folder. I tried that and still no lucj

[22:37:47]

carbon_:

luck*

[22:40:03]

bill6502:

Sounds like bad information. The drives (/dev/disk...) are owned by root:disk on my hosts. The mount point would be root:root. The directory on the new disk would be mythtv:mythtv. Mode 755 or maybe 775, but never 777.

[22:41:20]

bill6502:

Can you pastebin your mythbackend log file? Just the most recent run of the backend that has the error, not the whole thing.

[22:41:58]

carbon_:

billy6502_: I agree with you on that

[22:42:19]

carbon_:

I made a few setting changes and my database it updating. I will upload shortly

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[22:50:32]

carbon_:

pastebin.com/98C6zFdE

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[22:52:01]

carbon_:

It's definately a permission problem. Line 23

[22:52:34]

bill6502:

and the output of: ls -ld /media/hts/htpc1/recordings please

[22:55:15]

carbon_:

drwxrwxrwx 2 mythtv mythtv 4096

[22:55:33]

carbon_:

I will chmod -o when I get it working.

[22:55:50]

carbon_:

my backend is using root as user.

[22:56:45]

bill6502:

Good. And are all of the directories above /media/hts/htpc1/recordings writable?

[22:57:36]

carbon_:

yes. I ran sudo chmod 0777 -R /media/hts/htpc1

[22:57:53]

carbon_:

I know that is not ideal.

[22:58:59]

bill6502:

I disagree with running the BE as root. It is not unusual to have it started by some script/config file executed by root, but then the --user mythtv is used. But that can be fixed later.

[22:59:54]

bill6502:

Is this all being done on a single host? Not, for example using NFS or CIFS or some other networked storage solution?

[22:59:56]

carbon_:

should I run sudo chown mythtv:mythtv -R /media ?????

[23:00:15]

carbon_:

correct, server and client ran on same machine

[23:00:38]

bill6502:

Yes, but I'd do that later.

[23:01:01]

carbon_:

run*

[23:04:24]

bill6502:

I'd really to look at an entire log session starting with a like that is *similar* to this: mythbackend version: master [v0.27-beta-47-gab2c0fe] www.mythtv.org (looking for errors especially during startup.)

[23:04:35]

bill6502:

So far, I don't see anything wrong.

[23:04:54]

carbon_:

I can clear my log. reboot and give it a try

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[23:07:21]

bill6502:

Assuming your log in in /var/log/mythtv, no need to boot, just stop the BE, clear the logfile and restart the backend.

[23:07:49]

carbon_:

oh, I also added mythtv to the plugdev group hoping that would help. prior to changing permission on the drive

[23:08:10]

bill6502:

Sorry,I don't know what plugdev is.

[23:11:10]

bill6502:

If you haven't started your BE yes, I'd add -v file --loglevel debug to the command line.

[23:11:21]

bill6502:

s/yes/yet

[23:13:55]

carbon_:

ok. I just reboot and it is stating that /media/hts/htpc1 is not writable

[23:14:00]

carbon_:

?

[23:14:41]

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[23:14:55]

bill6502:

What distribution are you running e.g. Mythbuntu?

[23:15:22]

carbon_:

yes mythbuntu. currently running mythtv .25

[23:18:44]

carbon_:

I am upgrading to 0.26.1 +fixes now.

[23:19:29]

bill6502:

You're pastbinning the log, I assume. If you do this: sudo su mythtv and then: cd /media/hts/htpc1/recordings and finally: touch testfile does it work or return an error?

[23:21:02]

bill6502:

OK (not opomistic it will help.) You've read the release notes and done a backup hopefully.

[23:21:14]

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[23:23:06]

carbon_:

Strange, I can't even change directory to /media/hts/htpc1/recordings as mythtv user

[23:25:12]

carbon_:

ok, now i can touch testfile without error. time to give it a try

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[23:26:06]

carbon_:

it works now. I had to sudo chmod 0777 -R /media there has to be a better way?

[23:27:01]

bill6502:

There is. What command are you using to start the backend.

[23:27:14]

bill6502:

?

[23:28:30]

carbon_:

This makes me sound like a newb, but it starting on boot.

[23:28:54]

carbon_:

should it check my init.d

[23:29:06]

carbon_:

I* sorry for my poor typing today

[23:30:26]

bill6502:

No, that's normal. The configuration file is actually in /etc/init (not init.d) and is named mythtv-backend.conf. And, if you're using that, then it will have the --user mythtv argument in it.

[23:30:44]

bill6502:

So, root is starting the backend, but it's running as mythtv.

[23:30:57]

carbon_:

yes to your second statement

[23:31:17]

** wagnerrp prefers when the init system is capable of dropping privileges on its own **

[23:32:03]

[R]:

drop it like it's hot?

[23:32:04]

carbon_:

I tested chmod 700 and it still works.

[23:33:14]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, upstart can drop permissions

[23:33:43]

** tgm4883 wonders if it would be better for us to do that rather than use the --user mythtv argument **

[23:34:41]

bill6502:

tgm4883:http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythtv . . . kend.upstart [still] shows --user. Is that the wrong place to look?

[23:38:46]

bill6502:

tgm4883: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#order-in- . . . vent-are-run shows: setuid <username> is that what you're suggesting?

[23:41:04]

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[23:49:07]

bill6502:

Ah, added in Upstart version 1.4. 12.04 is running 1.5 and 13.04 is on 1.8. Added: setuid mythtv to my BE config and it's running as mythtv.

[23:53:02]

jst_ (jst_!~jst@pool-71-178-195-222.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[23:53:07]

tgm4883:

bill6502, yes that is what I'm talking about

[23:53:18]

tgm4883:

It didn't exist when we first created the script, and we haven't changed it

[23:53:35]

jst_:

Hey, guys. Having trouble tuning to a certain channel with my InfiniTV (it works when I tune from the browser and run mplayer though). It's only one channel. Here's the error: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=SkRa3Q3g

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