| Saturday, July 13th, 2013, 00:04 UTC | ||
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| [01:48:34] | Korny: | Evening, anyone awake |
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| [09:28:13] | k-man_: | i;ve broken mythweb somehow, and now it puts "!!NoTrans:" infront of every string |
| [09:28:19] | k-man_: | any ideas how i could fix it? |
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| [10:24:59] | NotJimCarrey (NotJimCarrey!~notjimcar@180.94.85.2) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [10:25:05] | NotJimCarrey: | need a little assistance |
| [10:25:10] | NotJimCarrey: | keep getting Cannot login to database |
| [10:25:15] | NotJimCarrey: | password is correct |
| [10:25:19] | NotJimCarrey: | even went so far as to apt-get purge all mysql & mythtv |
| [10:39:18] | stuarta: | where is this from and to? |
| [10:39:30] | NotJimCarrey: | dunno if it'll cause problems later, but tired and don't care |
| [10:39:39] | NotJimCarrey: | running sid and installed libssl0.9.8_0.9.8o-4squeeze14_i386.deb |
| [10:39:54] | NotJimCarrey: | works again |
| [10:40:00] | stuarta: | ie. 1 machine with frontend & backend, etc? |
| [10:40:11] | NotJimCarrey: | yeah |
| [10:40:16] | NotJimCarrey: | oops |
| [10:40:30] | NotJimCarrey: | single machine |
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| [10:47:45] | stuarta: | have you reset the password in mysql to be sure? |
| [10:49:45] | NotJimCarrey: | yeah, several times |
| [10:50:01] | stuarta: | done 'flush privileges' ? |
| [10:50:06] | NotJimCarrey: | installing libssl0.9.8_0.9.8o-4squeeze14_i386.deb fixed it |
| [10:50:13] | stuarta: | wtf? |
| [10:50:36] | NotJimCarrey: | it worked, so meh |
| [10:51:07] | NotJimCarrey: | may run into hell if i try logging back in after reboot, but i'll worry about that then |
| [10:51:10] | NotJimCarrey: | lol |
| [10:51:37] | NotJimCarrey: | it would be an easy fix anyway |
| [10:52:52] | NotJimCarrey: | it had caused problems with xbmc as well, though i'd forgotten. i had just disabled mysql at compile |
| [10:59:03] | NotJimCarrey: | though since libssl1.0.0 & libssl0.9.8 installed their support files in seperate locations, i foresee no issues |
| [10:59:39] | NotJimCarrey: | (0.9.8 uses /usr/lib & 1.0.0 uses /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu) |
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| [15:17:15] | wagnerrp: | sphery: you use thunderbird, right? |
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| [16:30:07] | _stefanb1: | Hmm, after updating to Fedora 19 (mysql -> mariadb) I get an error from python MySQL code in mythweb: unkown authentication methid |
| [16:30:38] | _stefanb1: | I could only find one hit with the same error message, but no possible solution |
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| [16:47:39] | wagnerrp: | mythweb uses python? |
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| [17:11:58] | _stefanb1: | Ahh problem found: too old database with too old password hashes |
| [17:12:13] | _stefanb1: | FYI: mysql -> select Host,User,Password from mysql.user; |
| [17:12:29] | _stefanb1: | if you see old style 16 byte password hashes then do: |
| [17:12:37] | _stefanb1: | update mysql.user SET Password=PASSWORD('mythtv') where User='mythtv'; |
| [17:12:42] | _stefanb1: | Problem solved |
| [17:16:20] | _stefanb1: | that happens if you are a long time user :-) |
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| [18:35:59] | zero_coder: | hello |
| [18:36:08] | zero_coder: | how does this rewinding of live tv works? |
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| [18:38:29] | wagnerrp: | the same way as any other DVR |
| [18:38:33] | wagnerrp: | you don't watch live tv |
| [18:38:40] | wagnerrp: | you record tv, and watch the recording in progress |
| [18:38:49] | wagnerrp: | there's about a two second delay |
| [18:39:07] | zero_coder: | so i can fast forward two seconds ? |
| [18:39:26] | wagnerrp: | no, you can fast forward until whatever the software considers "live" |
| [18:39:40] | wagnerrp: | which is approximately two seconds of buffer behind what is coming into the tuner |
| [18:40:10] | zero_coder: | then suppose if i pause it. the tv goes on being recorded? |
| [18:40:26] | wagnerrp: | correct |
| [18:40:44] | zero_coder: | so what and deletes once it is played? |
| [18:41:12] | zero_coder: | and deletes once it is played?* |
| [18:42:24] | zero_coder: | and about rewinding, mythtv keep buffer for the channel being played? |
| [18:43:49] | wagnerrp: | until the end of the show, at which point it starts a new buffer |
| [18:43:58] | wagnerrp: | livetv recordings occur just like scheduled recordings |
| [18:44:02] | wagnerrp: | being broken up at show boundaries |
| [18:44:20] | wagnerrp: | during a livetv session, mythtv will automatically jump from one buffer to the next as you reach then end of one |
| [18:44:32] | zero_coder: | but most of the cable providers doesnt even provide channel guide |
| [18:44:46] | zero_coder: | then it will have to use something like time slots ,right? |
| [18:45:02] | zero_coder: | like after 7.30 a new buffer |
| [18:45:08] | wagnerrp: | no, you provide guide data |
| [18:45:21] | wagnerrp: | assuming you're in north america, you download it from schedules direct |
| [18:45:36] | zero_coder: | from india |
| [18:45:37] | zero_coder: | :) |
| [18:45:49] | wagnerrp: | don't know about that. you would have to look for an xmltv grabber |
| [18:45:59] | zero_coder: | somewhere cable tv's are still in stone age |
| [18:46:17] | zero_coder: | its still PAL cable tv i suppose |
| [18:47:31] | Scopeuk-AFK is now known as Scopeuk | |
| [18:47:41] | zero_coder: | besides I want to set it up on a raspberry pi |
| [18:47:53] | zero_coder: | it doesnt have a big HDD |
| [18:48:05] | wagnerrp: | or any hard drive, for that matter |
| [18:48:19] | wagnerrp: | just a couple hundred MB of flash |
| [18:48:22] | lautriv: | EIT works fine here. |
| [18:48:36] | zero_coder: | cool |
| [18:48:37] | wagnerrp: | EIT requires digital television |
| [18:48:56] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, is there somewhere no digital one ? |
| [18:49:05] | wagnerrp: | PAL is an analog format |
| [18:49:44] | zero_coder: | yep. In india its still analog :) |
| [18:49:56] | lautriv: | since PAL is a format, it can be delivered digitally. |
| [18:50:07] | wagnerrp: | erm... no |
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| [18:50:35] | wagnerrp: | when i say format, i'm not simply talking about the resolution |
| [18:50:42] | wagnerrp: | i mean the encoding scheme and modulation |
| [18:50:45] | zero_coder: | PAL can be converted to digital using a tv capture card i suppose |
| [18:51:01] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, that's another part ... |
| [18:52:01] | zero_coder: | hey, does mythtv work on raspberry pi? |
| [18:52:05] | wagnerrp: | nope |
| [18:52:11] | zero_coder: | why not? |
| [18:52:15] | wagnerrp: | not enough memory, not enough CPU |
| [18:52:24] | wagnerrp: | no meaningful storage to speak of |
| [18:52:49] | lautriv: | and too less decoding caps |
| [18:53:01] | zero_coder: | there's 512 mb ram and 800 mhz |
| [18:53:25] | wagnerrp: | that 800MHz is roughly equivalent to a 200–250MHz Pentium II |
| [18:53:45] | wagnerrp: | you're nearly two orders of magnitude off a typical modern desktop |
| [18:53:54] | wagnerrp: | most units are only 256MB |
| [18:54:03] | wagnerrp: | and a good chunk of that memory is eaten up by the GPU |
| [18:54:14] | wagnerrp: | and you're still lacking any meaningful storage |
| [18:54:27] | zero_coder: | an external usb? |
| [18:54:38] | wagnerrp: | all IO is performed through a single common USB bus |
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| [18:54:49] | zero_coder: | or the os can be stored in 8gb card or so |
| [18:54:55] | wagnerrp: | so your storage, tuners, and network access are all pumped through a single bus rated for 480Mbps |
| [18:55:02] | wagnerrp: | which in practice isn't even going to hit half that |
| [18:57:34] | wagnerrp: | don't forget that uncompressed PAL is pushing over 100Mbps all on its own |
| [18:57:50] | wagnerrp: | so you're going to struggle even handling that alone |
| [18:58:00] | wagnerrp: | not to mention trying to compress that in real time on an RPi |
| [18:58:23] | wagnerrp: | having it as a backend is pretty much a non-starter unless you've got a hardware encoder like a PVR-USB2, or HVR-1900 |
| [18:58:39] | zero_coder: | so there is nothing I can do ?? |
| [18:58:55] | zero_coder: | i want to make something like Tivo with pi |
| [18:59:06] | wagnerrp: | get better hardware |
| [18:59:18] | zero_coder: | what would be the min requirement? |
| [18:59:27] | wagnerrp: | that thing is below the recommended requirements of mythtv when it was first released a decade ago |
| [18:59:51] | zero_coder: | what is the recommended requirement now? |
| [19:00:10] | wagnerrp: | probably an Atom is about the lowest you should consider |
| [19:00:28] | zero_coder: | :P |
| [19:00:30] | wagnerrp: | any Athlon X2, Core 2 or better should suffice |
| [19:00:31] | zero_coder: | thts too much |
| [19:00:43] | zero_coder: | core 2? u gotta be kiddin |
| [19:01:01] | wagnerrp: | why? those things are like seven years old |
| [19:01:20] | zero_coder: | yep. |
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| [19:04:23] | wagnerrp: | even a late model pentium would be sufficient, but those are a whole lot more power hungry than a core 2 |
| [19:04:44] | Korny: | Anyone awake? |
| [19:05:14] | zero_coder: | yep |
| [19:05:21] | Korny: | Ahh time stamps |
| [19:05:43] | wagnerrp: | i wasn't going to say it |
| [19:05:43] | Korny: | Just enabled them |
| [19:06:32] | Korny: | wagnerrp, long time no see. Moving and having a 9–5 job instead of 7pm to 7am job takes away all my idle on IRC time |
| [19:06:53] | Korny: | You see that link I posted about ati cards using Vpadu now? |
| [19:07:06] | wagnerrp: | i saw it, i don't trust it |
| [19:07:09] | Korny: | Well from april |
| [19:07:43] | Korny: | I'm building a new box for my living room because honestly it sucks having a combined frontend/backend setup with grandparents around |
| [19:08:06] | Korny: | They tend to break the frontend and I can't just tell them to restart the box to fix it |
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| [19:11:00] | Korny: | wagnerrp, was anything pushed through .26 fixes gui wise on the front end. My atom boxes are really sluggish |
| [19:11:23] | wagnerrp: | that's usually just a function of having too many recordings to process and display |
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| [19:11:52] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v gigem | |
| [19:13:11] | Korny: | Hmmm |
| [19:13:49] | Korny: | I think they will just become bedroom boxes |
| [19:14:04] | Korny: | spare bedroom |
| [19:15:46] | wagnerrp: | i really hate it when games don't lock the mouse on screen |
| [19:17:25] | Korny: | Dual screen? |
| [19:17:34] | wagnerrp: | 3 |
| [19:17:42] | wagnerrp: | plus synergy for two others |
| [19:17:45] | Korny: | I know wow in window mode didn't but I liked that |
| [19:17:59] | Korny: | Minecraft does though, until you press escape |
| [19:18:15] | wagnerrp: | the mouse keeps going off screen, and then when i click, it loses focus |
| [19:22:59] | Korny: | What game are you playing |
| [19:23:41] | wagnerrp: | hotline miami |
| [19:25:36] | wagnerrp: | mmm... spam |
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| [19:26:58] | zero_coder: | so a mythtv wont work on arm11 processors :P |
| [19:27:13] | wagnerrp: | sure, it will run |
| [19:27:17] | wagnerrp: | it just won't run fast enough |
| [19:27:34] | wagnerrp: | now an A9 or A15, you've got a fighting chance |
| [19:27:37] | zero_coder: | what will be the trouble? |
| [19:27:47] | wagnerrp: | but ARM6 CPUs are just very slow |
| [19:28:01] | wagnerrp: | the scheduler needs to run in a reasonable amount of time |
| [19:28:11] | wagnerrp: | you need power to compress video (if using an old analog framegrabber) |
| [19:28:21] | wagnerrp: | you need power to decompress and render video for playback |
| [19:28:56] | zero_coder: | but the tv capture card will do that , right? |
| [19:28:57] | wagnerrp: | you need memory for various things, and mythtv hasn't bothered to be very tight on memory since it's been ten years since PCs commonly came with less than a GB of memory |
| [19:29:15] | wagnerrp: | assuming you buy a more expensive card, you can find some with hardware compression |
| [19:29:41] | Korny: | zero_coder, what is your end goal? |
| [19:30:01] | zero_coder: | a pvr with pi |
| [19:30:14] | Korny: | For fun? or do you have a reason for running it on a pi? |
| [19:30:15] | wagnerrp: | with zero budget, apparently |
| [19:30:29] | zero_coder: | some business plans |
| [19:30:58] | Korny: | Because after you buy the licensing for the codex for a pi you'd be better off buying a lowend amd or intel |
| [19:31:01] | zero_coder: | like selling it |
| [19:31:01] | wagnerrp: | if you're looking to do some coding, you _could_ use an RPi as a frontend |
| [19:31:03] | Korny: | prce wise |
| [19:31:24] | zero_coder: | and let the cable providers do the back end |
| [19:31:30] | wagnerrp: | that would require writing an OpenMAX decoder for MythTV, to allow it to use the hardware decoders on the RPi, rather than software decoding |
| [19:31:45] | wagnerrp: | and considerable cleanup of memory usage if you intend to run it on the 256MB version |
| [19:32:12] | zero_coder: | nope i am using rpi b model |
| [19:32:15] | zero_coder: | 512 mb ram |
| [19:32:18] | wagnerrp: | but the backend? you're better off just getting a real machine for that. especially if you intend to do it on a cable system with a lot of channels |
| [19:32:31] | wagnerrp: | more channels and more guide data means geometrically longer scheduling runs |
| [19:33:10] | zero_coder: | yep , i want to use it on a cable system |
| [19:33:10] | ** Korny likes his i3 for his back end, its a bit overkill but even with 6 hd's it only pulls 35–40 watts while not playing anything but recording 7 streems ** | |
| [19:34:27] | kormoc: | man, the RPi is *slow*. I have a model B and I can't believe how bloody glacier it is for anything database related, even with a $120 super fast SD card. It's not io bound anymore, but the memory is just slow and the cpu is woefully underpowered |
| [19:34:54] | zero_coder: | :P |
| [19:37:28] | ** Korny wishes there was a way to access hard drives from a cell phone chipset, the newer 4 core 1.8 ghz chips could make an interesting backend if we could easly attach storage ** | |
| [19:37:53] | wagnerrp: | a cell phone chipset has no reason accessing hard drives |
| [19:38:05] | wagnerrp: | you're not going to stuff a SATA drive in your phone |
| [19:38:21] | wagnerrp: | now that doesn't mean you can't find ARM boards with SATA controllers and ports |
| [19:40:42] | Korny: | But you also have to look at costs, you can build a decent backend for 100 dollars or less other then disk drives |
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| [19:41:43] | Korny: | well maybe 120 with new parts, and if its a newer intel it will idle along at 30–40 watts total or less |
| [19:42:37] | wagnerrp: | with a newer intel, it will idle closer to 15–20W |
| [19:42:50] | wagnerrp: | the rest is inefficiencies of your power supply running so far under its designed load |
| [19:43:41] | Korny: | We've had this discussion before, but what i'm getting at is gettign a power sipping Rpi for price or energy efficiency will take a very long time to pay for itself |
| [19:44:02] | wagnerrp: | we really need to see PSU manufacturers start to sell multi-stage power supplies |
| [19:44:29] | wagnerrp: | ones that have a high power mode for heavy load, and a low power mode when the machine goes idle |
| [19:44:37] | wagnerrp: | or in standby |
| [19:44:39] | Korny: | The pico supplies aren't bad if we had a good way to get a clean 12volt |
| [19:45:16] | wagnerrp: | 12V is honestly a bit too low, requires too much amperage |
| [19:45:28] | Korny: | But thats what the pico supplies dake |
| [19:45:28] | wagnerrp: | i'd love to see some kind of household standard for 24V or 48V power |
| [19:45:32] | Korny: | *take |
| [19:46:04] | wagnerrp: | for relatively low power consumption like the PicoPSUs offer, 12V isn't bad |
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| [19:46:31] | wagnerrp: | but i'm talking about running 1–2kW, to multiple computers, tvs, and other pieces of electronics |
| [19:46:55] | wagnerrp: | scrapping their modestly efficient power supplies for one very efficient centralized one |
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| [19:49:47] | zero_coder: | hey |
| [19:50:10] | zero_coder: | what is tivo's backend? |
| [19:50:14] | wagnerrp: | tivo |
| [19:50:23] | zero_coder: | yep |
| [19:50:30] | Korny: | I find myself wondering if PC's as we know them will even be around in 10 years :/ |
| [19:50:30] | wagnerrp: | no, tivo's backend is tivo |
| [19:50:34] | wagnerrp: | it's one self-contained unit |
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| [19:50:47] | zero_coder: | not a server ? |
| [19:50:49] | wagnerrp: | Korny: we will still need PCs to actually be productive |
| [19:50:58] | zero_coder: | tivo come's with a hard disk? |
| [19:51:06] | Korny: | Yes |
| [19:51:10] | wagnerrp: | tablets, phones, they're all primarily toys |
| [19:51:18] | wagnerrp: | media and library access platforms |
| [19:51:35] | Korny: | I mean will all our PC's just be all in one pieces of crap |
| [19:52:03] | zero_coder: | wagnerrp : tivo comes with a harddisk ? |
| [19:52:09] | wagnerrp: | as korny said, yes |
| [19:52:23] | zero_coder: | sorry , i just didnt see that |
| [19:52:49] | Korny: | Most cable and satellite ones do as well. Usually much smaller then consumer hard drivess |
| [19:53:10] | wagnerrp: | well, they're usually 2.5" mobile drives, rather than large 3.5" desktop ones |
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| [19:53:40] | zero_coder: | but . tivo started like 10–15 years ago.. they wont be having a better hardware than pi back then |
| [19:53:55] | Korny: | They 480i |
| [19:54:19] | wagnerrp: | tivo started on a little MIPS CPU running at a couple dozen MHz, combined with a bunch of custom hardware to handle video processing |
| [19:54:19] | Korny: | or pal |
| [19:54:23] | zero_coder: | and now its 1080i? |
| [19:54:28] | wagnerrp: | the difference is tivo was _designed_ to run on that hardware |
| [19:54:38] | wagnerrp: | mythtv is designed to run on common x86 PCs |
| [19:54:40] | Korny: | Dedicated hardware can do amazing things |
| [19:54:51] | Korny: | Look at gaming consoles |
| [19:55:14] | zero_coder: | okie |
| [19:55:21] | wagnerrp: | when you know exactly what hardware you're going to run on, you can heavily optimize for that platform |
| [19:55:26] | Korny: | If you have every single device is always the same and the varriables are always known then its much easier to program for |
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| [19:55:31] | zero_coder: | i need a better hardware for backend |
| [19:55:41] | wagnerrp: | when your hardware is wide and varied, you can't optimize as well, but you open up a great deal of flexibility |
| [19:56:21] | Korny: | Backends don't NEED that much hardware, other then commercial skipping they really don't do any heavy duty tasks, some database stuff but nothing a decently modern cpu will have issues with |
| [19:56:36] | zero_coder: | but i am doing it on a pi |
| [19:57:15] | Korny: | wagnerrp, this reminds me of our round and rounds with that dude who kept breaking stuff |
| [19:57:18] | wagnerrp: | you are currently doing it on Pi? or you insist on doing it on a Pi? |
| [19:57:18] | kormoc: | it'll work, but the database will take forever, and you really need a very costly SD card to really make it semi-useful |
| [19:57:47] | zero_coder: | i am going round and round |
| [19:59:37] | kormoc: | zero_coder, just do what you want and when it's too slow, don't come back complaining |
| [20:00:09] | zero_coder: | kormoc, :) |
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| [20:00:32] | zero_coder: | u guys work at tivo? |
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| [20:02:55] | wagnerrp: | no |
| [20:03:44] | zero_coder: | i mean on mythtv |
| [20:03:48] | zero_coder: | sorry |
| [20:04:02] | wagnerrp: | kormoc and i are developers, yes |
| [20:04:20] | zero_coder: | okay. cool |
| [20:04:54] | Korny: | I just visit occassionally and try not to sound stupid and fail most of the time |
| [20:05:55] | zero_coder: | Korny, lol :P |
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| [20:12:24] | zero_coder: | can I pop with more doubts? |
| [20:18:09] | zero_coder: | digital cable networks, they are 2 way communication channel,right |
| [20:18:16] | zero_coder: | not like PAL , i suppose |
| [20:18:54] | Korny: | That depends, in the US we can use 1 way cable cards |
| [20:19:27] | zero_coder: | in the normal case , its 2 way chanels, right? |
| [20:20:55] | wagnerrp: | i think MHEG might have some two-way capability in England, but that's about it |
| [20:21:19] | wagnerrp: | mythtv's use of any such systems is strictly one-way |
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| [20:22:54] | Korny: | I'm still confused what he's trying to do |
| [20:23:15] | wagnerrp: | make his own analog cable box and DVR, build off raspberry pis |
| [20:23:33] | Korny: | but why a pi? |
| [20:23:50] | wagnerrp: | hell if i know |
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| [21:24:51] | ms77: | hi...i'd like to change my setup, currently backend and frontend are on the same host and i wanna move the backend to another box. now mythconverg_restore.pl --change_hostname would change all entries, right? how can i change just the backend host records keeping the frontend's as they are? |
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