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| [15:11:55] | limitless__: | Hello. I am looking to build a htpc. What tuner cards from the wiki are still available to buy? |
| [15:13:08] | limitless__: | Does anyone have any suggestions for 1080p@30 capture? I know that theres a hauppage model, however I want to stay under $120. |
| [15:14:22] | devinheitmueller: | There are no devices supported under Linux that support 1080p. |
| [15:14:50] | devinheitmueller: | In fact, the original HDPVR is the *only* model that supports HD at all under Linux, and it doesn't do HDMI or 1080p. |
| [15:14:57] | devinheitmueller: | (HD component at 1080i only) |
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| [15:16:09] | jpabq: | Unless he really means 'tuner' |
| [15:16:38] | limitless__: | I'd prefer a composite capture card/box. |
| [15:16:55] | devinheitmueller: | composite cannot do HD. Composite is standard definition only. |
| [15:17:03] | limitless__: | *component |
| [15:17:13] | devinheitmueller: | Ok, in that case, then the HDPVR 1212 is your only option. |
| [15:17:41] | devinheitmueller: | Note, I'm talking about the model *1212* – the *old* HDPVR. The HDPVR2 is not supported under Linux. |
| [15:19:45] | devinheitmueller: | The community is going to have a real problem when that model finally stops shipping. |
| [15:19:49] | limitless__: | I had checked the wiki, and am pretty bummed that mythtv+linux support is lacking. |
| [15:20:01] | limitless__: | Fortunately, amazon and newegg still carry it. |
| [15:20:51] | limitless__: | We could reverse engineer drivers using qemu and pci command sniffing. |
| [15:20:59] | devinheitmueller: | Good luck. |
| [15:21:04] | limitless__: | Thanks. |
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| [15:26:17] | limitless__: | The HDPVR 1212 has two models. Is this one compatible? http://www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-1212-Definiti . . . p/B0018LX0DY |
| [15:26:43] | jpabq: | limitless__: yes, that is the one I have. |
| [15:26:55] | limitless__: | Sweet! |
| [15:27:31] | devinheitmueller: | The only difference between the two HDPVR models is the cables – the "Gaming Edition" comes with a cable specifically to connect to the PS3 and Xbox, and it doesn't include the IR blaster cable. |
| [15:28:51] | devinheitmueller: | To be clear, I'm talking about the difference between the two HDPVR 1 models. Not the difference between the HDPVR1 and HDPVR 2. |
| [15:32:08] | jpabq: | I personally have had very few problems with my HD-PVRs (v1). I have had to replace the wall-wart on each once, but otherwise they just work. I feed them from Directv STBs and use the optical S/PDIF for audio. Some people with Dish or cable seem to have audio problems when they use S/PDIF and so have to use RCA for the audio. |
| [15:33:15] | devinheitmueller: | Yeah, the encoder is hooked to the optical audio clocking, so if the audio clock drops out for some reason then the encoder will halt. |
| [15:33:30] | devinheitmueller: | (which can happen on certain set top boxes during operations such as channel changes) |
| [15:33:53] | devinheitmueller: | In some cases it will stop the encoder; in other cases it will cause A/V sync drift. |
| [15:37:08] | limitless__: | Is there a mythtv plex plugin? |
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| [17:02:53] | hackhalo2: | heya, I'm wondering if anyone knows if the Hauppauge HD-PVR2 works with mythtv? I found the wiki page for the 1212 HD-PVR, but this one: http://tech.woot.com/offers/hauppauge-hd-pvr- . . . 61#read-more went on sale and has HDMI support |
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| [17:17:01] | devinheitmueller: | hackhalo2: No, it is not supported under Linux |
| [17:17:22] | hackhalo2: | alright, thank you |
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| [17:39:52] | blizzow: | I'm trying to figure out if I can watch HBO using a ceton infinitv pcie card with mythtv. I can't tell if it's dependent on my cable card, my provider (comcast), my hardware, or myth. I was looking on the myth wiki and can't find any good info. Can anyone here give me the lowdown? |
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| [17:49:47] | sphery: | blizzow: with the Linux-compatible CableCARD tuners (InfiniTV, HDHR Prime, ...) you can watch and record any programming to which you subscribe if and only if your provider delivers it with the "copy freely" flag set. Therefore, some providers (like Time Warner) make CableCARD basically useless in F/LOSS by marking everything except locals as "copy once" or "copy never". Comcast generally marks everything except premiums (including HBO) ... |
| [17:49:53] | sphery: | ... as "copy freely", but premiums are "copy once" or "copy never" |
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| [17:51:23] | sphery: | And since these copy flags are DRM and since DRM is fundamentally incompatible with F/LOSS, it's impossible for us to ever access those DRMed channels via CableCARD tuners in MythTV. |
| [17:53:10] | sphery: | blizzow: that means your options are: a) Hauppauge HD-PVR (assuming you want HDTV recordings, or PVR-150 if SDTV is ok) and a cable-company provided STB with analog outputs (Component for HDTV or Composite/S-Video for SDTV) for each recording from a premium channel you want to record at any given time (i.e. to record 2 channels, 2xHD-PVR + 2xSTB) |
| [17:54:08] | sphery: | or b) don't use GNU/Linux. I think with Microsoft's Media Center Edition, you can record the "copy once" and can "timeshift up to 90min" the "copy never" |
| [17:54:24] | sphery: | blizzow: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable |
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| [19:45:51] | lwizardl: | hello |
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| [20:11:32] | jpabq: | Cool, pricey, but cool: http://www.geek.com/chips/cirrus7s-beautiful- . . . ase-1556641/ |
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| [20:31:12] | lwizardl: | I just bought another capture device which this time I don't think I should have any problems getting a working mythbox configured. HD PVR 1212, bought it for the component inputs and because read that it is natively supported in mythtv. |
| [20:32:25] | jpabq: | lwizardl: the HD-PVR 1212 is the only component capture device currently usable in Myth. |
| [20:32:46] | lwizardl: | I am waiting for the ebay seller to ship it, and was wonder something. I know mythtv was designed to be a tv dvr, but I was wondering if I could also use mythtv to record my game play footage, the issue I see is the timed recording. |
| [20:33:26] | jpabq: | You won't be happy with the results due to the inherent lag induced by Myth's DVR operations. |
| [20:33:52] | lwizardl: | is there a way to set a recording to start recording now and then be able to end the recording when ever I just to stop playing |
| [20:34:34] | jpabq: | You can go into the "Upcoming Recordings" screen, and tell a current recording to stop. |
| [20:34:36] | lwizardl: | jpabq: I plan to feed the mythtv box to a pc screen and use that to control myth, and then feed the component feed to my surround sound and tv |
| [20:37:09] | lwizardl: | jpabq: well see how my current dvr works (ReplayTV i know its old) is I use the guide to set the shows to record and have the option to tinker with the recordings start/end times. so when I plan to record a block of shows for example say saturday morning cartoons I tell it to record from 6am to noon. by finding the middle show and extending the times out from that show. |
| [20:37:57] | lwizardl: | I'm sure mythtv has an option for that also but that will only work for the games if I plan to play for a set time, instead of just random |
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| [20:39:27] | jpabq: | Myth has a manual-record option, but you are much better off recording based off of guide data. If you are in the US the means http://schedulesdirect.com |
| [20:40:20] | lwizardl: | yeah I have no problems using the pay feeds for tv. |
| [20:40:41] | EvilGuru: | Darn 4G; one of my DTV multiplexes just moved from C62 to C50 |
| [20:41:22] | EvilGuru: | phpmyadmin to the rescue...again |
| [20:41:26] | jpabq: | Myth's scheduler is MUCH better than the ReplayTV (I used to have one of those, too). You add as many tuners as you want to your Myth system, tell it what shows you want to record, and Myth figures out the best channels and times to record those shows. |
| [20:43:00] | lwizardl: | jpabq: I figured it was, I have bought about 10 tuner cards and never found a working configuration, could be the cards was bad, or that I was just too stupid to figure it out :) |
| [20:44:58] | lwizardl: | But this one should be easy |
| [20:44:58] | jpabq: | For OTA, I recommend HDhomeruns. If you have a 'liberal' cable feed, then either a ceton or a HDhomerun Prime. If a non-liberal cable company or any other STB, then the HD-PVR. |
| [20:45:09] | jpabq: | By liberal, I mean one that doesn't lock down their feed such that linux is not allowed to record it. |
| [20:46:04] | lwizardl: | jpabq: I had the Kworld ATSC 110 and was able to get local tv using my antenna, the ones that I had failed from was pvr-150, wintv-1650 i think, and tons of ati based cards |
| [20:46:27] | lwizardl: | jpabq: comcast and what ever they decide for the week it seems |
| [20:47:56] | jpabq: | Yeah, you can forget ati. The pvr-150's linux drivers have gone through some changes over the last year or so which has caused some problems. Unfortunately, very few (if any) of the Myth developers still use the PVR-150s, so Myth has not gotten much love in getting that card working again. |
| [20:47:59] | lwizardl: | I constantly have missing channels and such. Like I have the HD service and was told anything I can watch in SD i have also the HD for. Well there are 4 channels that I don't get like TruTV in HD. I have had them reset the boxes multiple times, had people come out to find the problems, etc same thing |
| [20:49:33] | lwizardl: | and according to the billing department I am supposed to have the channels, been that way now for about 8 months or so |
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| [22:31:16] | Russ: | are there any developers currently working on a true livetv mode for mythtv? |
| [22:33:40] | jxself: | "True" live TV? |
| [22:34:21] | jxself: | Because the current live TV mode is fake? |
| [22:35:00] | Russ: | current live tv schedules a recording, waits for it to start, and then plays it back |
| [22:35:24] | Russ: | it'd be nice to have a livetv mode that can replace an stb |
| [22:37:20] | Russ: | I don't think there is a optimize playback startup any further with the current model |
| [22:37:26] | Russ: | er, a way to optimize |
| [22:42:13] | EvilGuru: | Russ: It only takes a second or so |
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| [22:43:05] | EvilGuru: | I think you'll find only a small fraction of people here actually use livetv on a regular basis |
| [22:43:20] | Russ: | takes around 8 seconds |
| [22:43:26] | EvilGuru: | and of those who do the delay does not appear to be a problem |
| [22:43:30] | Russ: | vs 2 seconds with hdhomerun_gui and vlc |
| [22:43:54] | sphery: | besides, what we do is true Live TV--it's recording and watching a live broadcast, while allowing you to pause, skip back, etc., or even preserve the entire recording |
| [22:43:56] | Russ: | I know, that's why I was asking if someone else was already working on it before planning a potential summer project |
| [22:44:14] | sphery: | if you want "watch without any recording", use a different program that's designed for that |
| [22:44:24] | sphery: | you can even spawn it from MythTV menu with EXECTV |
| [22:44:26] | EvilGuru: | Most of the time for me is tuning rather than buffering |
| [22:45:46] | EvilGuru: | sphery: As an aside do you know what happened to iamlindoro? I have not seen him round here in a while |
| [22:53:56] | sphery: | he's working on Torc |
| [22:54:09] | sphery: | EvilGuru: ^^^ |
| [23:03:07] | wagnerrp: | now devinheitmueller, you know personally that's not true... :P |
| [23:04:30] | wagnerrp: | russ: that's how all DVRs operate |
| [23:05:03] | wagnerrp: | if you do not record, you cannot rewind |
| [23:05:54] | wagnerrp: | Russ: also note that anything you record off comcast will be compressed, and trivial to capture to disk |
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| [23:09:22] | Russ: | for minimum change time, it'd be more optimal to start streaming to the frontend first, then worry about recording a buffer |
| [23:09:50] | wagnerrp: | it would be a whole lot more work too |
| [23:09:52] | Russ: | the first cut of the software, I wouldn't worry about pause/rewind dvr functionality |
| [23:10:00] | wagnerrp: | for very minimal gains |
| [23:10:13] | EvilGuru: | wagnerrp: ++ |
| [23:10:24] | wagnerrp: | just because you don't have the buffer doesn't mean channel changes are instant, or even fast |
| [23:10:35] | Russ: | I think I'm not the only one here paying out for one or more STBs every month because of family member demands |
| [23:10:56] | wagnerrp: | you're still looking at a several second delay minimum on every channel change |
| [23:11:08] | Russ: | dunno, hdhomerun gui and vlc do it pretty quick |
| [23:11:14] | Russ: | and so does my stb |
| [23:11:26] | wagnerrp: | they do it quick if you're changing between channels on the same multiplex |
| [23:12:10] | wagnerrp: | anything else requires a second or so for the tuner to change and stabilize, some time to pick up stream headers, more time to set your program filters and wait for the first i-frame |
| [23:12:51] | wagnerrp: | there could be some worth in mythtv ditching hardware filtering and dumping the whole stream into a rolling memory buffer |
| [23:13:18] | wagnerrp: | such that any changes within that multiplex could be done instantly through the memory buffer |
| [23:13:27] | wagnerrp: | bypassing several steps in channel changing |
| [23:14:25] | Russ: | that could be a later optimization |
| [23:14:59] | Russ: | my goal would be to develop a livetv plugin that would have the same features of a base model stb. guide, info, live playback |
| [23:15:04] | wagnerrp: | that's the thing, it's not an optimization |
| [23:15:14] | wagnerrp: | it's an entirely different code path from any live use |
| [23:15:39] | wagnerrp: | you're also missing one key fact |
| [23:15:53] | Russ: | that most of the code would be in the backend? |
| [23:15:54] | wagnerrp: | the backend does not support plugins, the frontend does not support tuners |
| [23:16:15] | wagnerrp: | the backend can only record, it cannot stream a live capture |
| [23:16:33] | Russ: | then maybe the first cut of the plugin would only stream from hdhomerun devices |
| [23:16:35] | wagnerrp: | so this is not a "plugin", it's a complete rewrite of the whole tuner infrastructure |
| [23:17:56] | wagnerrp: | if that's all you want, then just write a UPNP plugin |
| [23:18:31] | wagnerrp: | there's a lot of interest in that already |
| [23:18:33] | Russ: | and integrate the existing guide? |
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| [23:22:13] | wagnerrp: | why is my disk getting hammered? |
| [23:22:25] | wagnerrp: | bah... mythfilldatabase |
| [23:23:30] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: what's not true? There is no HDPVR2 support under Linux. Am I missing something? |
| [23:24:08] | wagnerrp: | "In fact, the original HDPVR is the *only* model that supports HD at all under Linux"... (publically) |
| [23:24:51] | devinheitmueller: | He asked specifically if the HDPVR2 was supported under Linux. I said, "No, it is not supported under Linux" |
| [23:25:08] | wagnerrp: | fair enough |
| [23:25:42] | devinheitmueller: | "heya, I'm wondering if anyone knows if the Hauppauge HD-PVR2 works with mythtv? I found the wiki page for the 1212 HD-PVR, but this one: http://tech.woot.com/offers/hauppauge-hd-pvr- . . . 61#read-more went on sale and has HDMI support" |
| [23:25:54] | devinheitmueller: | Simple question. Simple answer. |
| [23:26:04] | wagnerrp: | not much use for HDMI anyway, HDCP and all... |
| [23:26:19] | wagnerrp: | even under windows |
| [23:26:30] | devinheitmueller: | Many, many people use it for capturing from the xbox. |
| [23:26:38] | devinheitmueller: | In fact, that is probably the 99% use case. |
| [23:27:03] | wagnerrp: | of course. i'm saying not much use for our use case (STBs) |
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| [23:27:14] | devinheitmueller: | Yes, people capturing their stupid console gameplay dwarfs the number of people using it for DVR by several orders of magnitude. |
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| [23:27:33] | devinheitmueller: | … crazy as it sounds... |
| [23:27:40] | wagnerrp: | and xbox only. i found out very early on that the PS3 demands HDCP |
| [23:27:45] | devinheitmueller: | Correct. |
| [23:27:51] | wagnerrp: | actually, i found out the very first time i turned it on |
| [23:28:00] | devinheitmueller: | Which is why Hauppauge ships a component cable for the Gaming Edition HDPVR units. |
| [23:28:00] | wagnerrp: | wouldn't work with one of the monitors at work |
| [23:28:52] | devinheitmueller: | You just need a board where somebody has yanked the video decoder and dropped down a grey-market HDCP enabled part. :-) |
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