| Sunday, May 5th, 2013, 00:12 UTC | ||
| [00:12:02] | tonsofpcs: | So I just started using xbmc as a frontend on the main box and found an issue... it won't play back shows with ":"... d'oh |
| [00:12:15] | tonsofpcs: | (old version, not an active bug report... yet) |
| [00:13:21] | [R]: | xbmc isn't supported here... |
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| [00:30:53] | Oleg_: | how do I add channels to the favorites list? |
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| [01:40:37] | Korny: | Anyone good with MCE remotes and the myth frontend, mine have always just "worked" but after my move my frontend on my backend is not working |
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| [07:38:59] | lautriv: | anyone using hid-aureal/hid_mapper on a 32 bit install ? |
| [07:48:25] | ** lautriv <-- alone :( ** | |
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| [13:40:56] | tonsofpcs: | can someone else with schedulesdirect who gets a PBS station check if "The Bletchley Circle" tonight at 10pm shows as new or rerun? trying to figure out if it's a local issue or not |
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| [14:14:16] | tonsofpcs: | hmm... seems it may be a Myth problem? |
| [14:19:11] | tonsofpcs: | Show that originally aired in the UK last year shows as a re-run even though it's first-air here. Zap2it properly shows it as new |
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| [15:49:38] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, shows rerun here. You'll need to email SD about that, although since it's for tonight you should probably manually record it I think |
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| [15:52:19] | tgm4883: | hmm |
| [15:52:32] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: well... is it a SD issue or a Myth issue? Like I said, Zap2it shows it as 'new', the show did technically first-air in 2012, but not in the US (and not on that channel obviously) |
| [15:52:47] | tgm4883: | zap2it shows the original airdate in 2012 as well, but it does have the new tag |
| [15:52:53] | tonsofpcs: | right |
| [15:53:03] | tonsofpcs: | unfortunately, I can't manually grab the SD data for that show until 10pm as the manual data grab only grabs 30s worth |
| [15:53:22] | wagnerrp: | 30 seconds worth of guide data? |
| [15:53:27] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I meant you could say "record this episode" |
| [15:53:32] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: oh, I did. |
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| [15:54:17] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I think mythtv bases the "new" off of the original airdate (I think it also includes anything within 2 weeks of it) |
| [15:54:19] | tonsofpcs: | wagnerrp: yea, that's what the sd website seems to give if you click the 'check raw data' link under lineup support |
| [15:54:48] | tonsofpcs: | xtvd from='2013-05–05T15:54:36Z' to='2013-05–05T15:55:06Z' |
| [15:55:36] | tonsofpcs: | link is http://www.schedulesdirect.org/getdata |
| [15:55:44] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, IMO, you shouldn't filter on "new episode" and instead just do "record any time any channel", and then have it check against your previously recorded shows |
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| [15:57:29] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: imo this is not expected behavior. many times (especially when first starting with myth or when another dvr is used elsewhere or when a new season is on after watching the prior season on netflix), a user will want only new episodes after $now as s/he will have seen the previous episodes or (in the case of long running series) have no interest in seeing them |
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| [15:58:44] | tonsofpcs: | also, tgm4883, sanity check: you're not in the southern tier of NY, are you? |
| [15:59:06] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, actually, that seems to be precisely expected behavior. The show is listed as airing in 2012, you selected "new episodes", I'm not entirely sure why you think a show that aired in 2012 should be a "new episode". Honestly, you should probably file a bug with zap2it and say that isn't a new episode |
| [15:59:09] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, no, Oregon |
| [15:59:24] | tonsofpcs: | ok :) |
| [15:59:47] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, further, it's simple enough to make a custom power rule that says "only episodes that originally aired after XXXX-XX-XX" |
| [16:00:22] | tgm4883: | or you can just do any time any channel, then look at upcoming episodes and hit the "never record" button on ones that you've already seen |
| [16:00:47] | tonsofpcs: | I do notice that the raw data from SD has a new='true' value for some of the shows this hour, so I imagine that new=true is separate from originalairadate=today (in fact, it must, since some shows air multiple times on their first day of air) |
| [16:00:53] | tgm4883: | I think both of those will work better than the "new episode" button, and I think sphery would back me up on that |
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| [16:01:29] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I'm just guessing what the "new episode" button does |
| [16:01:47] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: I think that if you really believe this, you either have no idea what an intuitive interface or see no reason for one. |
| [16:01:50] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, but again, for that very reason you just said, is why "any time any channel" is better than "new episode" |
| [16:02:24] | tonsofpcs: | if 'new episode' does something other than record 'new episodes', I see that as a bug. |
| [16:02:31] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, we're not talking about an intuitive interface. When did we ever start talking about that? We are talking about the best way to schedule things. |
| [16:02:46] | tonsofpcs: | also, I wasn't looking at recording rules but the schedule listings themselves. |
| [16:03:15] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, and I'm basing my guess of what "new episode" does off of something I thought I heard sphery say about it a long time ago |
| [16:03:58] | tonsofpcs: | how it does what it does doesn't really matter. What it is expected to do and what it actually does do matter. |
| [16:04:33] | tonsofpcs: | expected behavior/actual behavior/desired behavior .... |
| [16:05:16] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, honestly I think expected and actual are the same here |
| [16:05:21] | tonsofpcs: | yes, someone does have to make a 'how' that converges those things, but that is irrelevant for determining where a problem lies. |
| [16:06:22] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: you expect a show to show as a rerun when it has never run before? |
| [16:06:24] | tgm4883: | [20:02:50] sphery: new episodes works whenever the listings say the first showing was within 2 weeks |
| [16:06:42] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, well thats false. It has run before |
| [16:06:50] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, it ran in 2012 |
| [16:07:29] | tonsofpcs: | that explains why I can never record the nightly news only once without a crazy custom rule. They list 'original airdate' as the date they started that program but they reair the same 30 minute show three times a night. |
| [16:09:03] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, so yea, I think a better solution is to not trust "new episodes" |
| [16:09:07] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: to say that, you'd have to define what "it" is. Is 'it' $showname? is 'it' $episodenumber of $showname? is 'it' $showname $episodetitle ? is 'it' $thisspecificversion ? is 'it' $showname $episodenumber $duration ? |
| [16:09:21] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: if it's not to be trusted, why present that option in the interface? |
| [16:09:46] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, it's based on "original airdate" |
| [16:10:07] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, forget all that other crap. |
| [16:10:14] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: I'm not asking you what the code does. What the code does is IRRELEVANT to both expected and desired behavior |
| [16:10:29] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: let me be clear: I am not a 'broken user', I know how to force the software to do what *I* want. That doesn't mean that I can't help to make the software better for all users. |
| [16:10:52] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I still think it's bad guide data |
| [16:11:16] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: which I will not know for sure until 10pm, hence why I asked if others saw the same data. |
| [16:11:32] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I've got to run for awhile, but I'd come back to this later if you want |
| [16:11:39] | tonsofpcs: | cheers :) |
| [16:11:45] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, nah, you can run a mythfilldatabase --dd-grab-all and it will pull all data |
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| [16:11:56] | tgm4883: | unless there is something on SD you're talking about running |
| [16:11:58] | ** tgm4883 out ** | |
| [16:12:08] | tonsofpcs: | I want to see the unmolested SD raw data |
| [16:13:05] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, run the mythfilldatabase to a file then? or you want it outside of mythfilldatabase too? |
| [16:13:49] | ** tgm4883 really out ** | |
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| [16:58:39] | dekarl: | tonsofpcs: tgm4883: there is no easy solution to "original air date" and "new" once you look at more then one network/country/market. Over here we have "first time shown in the US" then "first time the dubbed version is shown on paytv" and "first time on freetv" (with freetv being the major market over here, as paytv was a non-starter before all the tripple play offers started to appear). |
| [17:02:28] | tonsofpcs: | dekarl: that's why the schedule provider provides a 'new' value in certain cases. In this case, zap2it is showing new but myth isn't. I'm not sure what SD's data says. |
| [17:03:14] | tonsofpcs: | from how I read the entries on the SD dev forum about 'new', it should be used to determine if a show is new (that is, if new is set the show is new) but other shows may be new without having new set. |
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| [18:43:13] | tgm4883: | dekarl, I disagree with using "new", so I don't think that matters. We don't even have that, as we simply have one "original airdate", which seems to show the date it originally aired in (i'm assuming, for this case) the UK |
| [19:18:55] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: if you read the SD developer info, they say not to count on "new" being there but that things set new are generally new. |
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| [19:57:51] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, so another reason to not use "new" |
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| [20:10:25] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: no, that's a reason to use something besides 'new', that's not a reason to ignore 'ne' |
| [20:10:28] | tonsofpcs: | *'new' |
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| [22:00:21] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, IMO, anything that we can't rely on to be correct (as defined by the gatekeeper of said data) is something we should completely ignore |
| [22:01:44] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: the value doesn't exist when it isn't correct. it's only "new=true" when deemed correct, "new=false" never exists. |
| [22:01:55] | tonsofpcs: | new=true is always correct per the provider of said data. |
| [22:02:23] | tgm4883: | "but other shows may be new without having new set" |
| [22:03:45] | tgm4883: | It sounds like that could cause missed recordings to me (which is bad) |
| [22:05:28] | tonsofpcs: | I'm not saying "rely only on new=true" |
| [22:05:35] | tonsofpcs: | in fact, they say not to do that |
| [22:05:40] | tonsofpcs: | but if new=true, the show is new. |
| [22:06:03] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, great. Now make a rule out of that |
| [22:08:04] | tonsofpcs: | what? |
| [22:09:12] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, so take two upcoming recordings. One at 10PM, the other at 2AM the next day. Both are the same episode (the 2AM is just a rebroadcast of the 10PM episode). The episode originally aired back in 2012 (as our example did). The 10PM episode is marked as "New". Which showing records? What happens if there is a scheduling conflict with the 10PM episode? |
| [22:11:16] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: again, the issue I am seeing is NOT in recording, it's in the listings display. |
| [22:11:27] | tonsofpcs: | the 10pm should list as "NEW" regardless of 'conflicts' |
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| [22:12:06] | tonsofpcs: | it definitely should NOT be flagged as "re-run" (as my example case is... but again, I'm not sure if that's an SD issue or a myth issue yet... this is still a lot of conjecture when we don't know all of the data) |
| [22:12:41] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I'll concede that point as I don't think it's worth arguing because I don't think we should ever use "new" in scheduling |
| [22:13:35] | tonsofpcs: | why wouldn't it be worth arguing? |
| [22:14:47] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I don't think it's worth arguing that it should be listed as new, because I don't think "new" is something we should use for scheduling. Since you are just talking about the listing, by definition, it isn't new as it as previously aired |
| [22:15:12] | tgm4883: | has* |
| [22:15:47] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: let's go back to exploring the definition of new |
| [22:16:15] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, ok. New episode would be the first time it aired |
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| [22:17:09] | tonsofpcs: | the first time what aired? this semblance of content? this exact content? a program with this show title and episode title? a program with this show title and episode number without suffixes? a program with this show title and explicit episode number? |
| [22:17:41] | tonsofpcs: | because I can tell you for sure that 99% of the BBC shows that air in the US (be it on BBCAm or PBS or another service) are cut differently for US distribution. |
| [22:18:07] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, since we have to go based on data from SD (in the US), then I'd say "original airdate" |
| [22:18:18] | tonsofpcs: | and I can tell you that a number of program producers will make 'combined' shows that they later split up to multiple episodes after the first-air and some that go the other way. |
| [22:18:39] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: I'm not asking programatically how to decide if something is new, I'm asking what 'new' means. You can't do the former until you've done the latter. |
| [22:19:07] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, what does that even matter? |
| [22:19:39] | tonsofpcs: | and if you're just locking yourself into data without a definition, why the heck wouldn't you use a field called "new" that is set to true when something saying "this is new" is provided by the station airing the content? |
| [22:20:17] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, because the station is wrong |
| [22:20:54] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: how can you say that when you can't even defined what it means to be "new" ? |
| [22:21:06] | tonsofpcs: | *define |
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| [22:21:55] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, fine, I'll define new |
| [22:22:38] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, the first time "a specific episode" is aired |
| [22:22:52] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, but I suppose now I need to define "a specific episode" |
| [22:23:05] | tgm4883: | (since you want clarification based on how different stations will cut an episode) |
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| [22:24:06] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, a specific episode is where 80% of content in a given 30 minute show is the unique |
| [22:25:05] | tgm4883: | where a "double header" (an hour long special that is really 2 30 minute episodes) would count as each individual episodes original airdate |
| [22:26:42] | tgm4883: | eg. Season 1 Episode 1 of Dowton Abbey in the UK is 80% (or more) similar to the US version, thus the original airdate is the UK original airdate (even for the US) |
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| [22:27:39] | tonsofpcs: | what do airdates have to do with the first time something airs? |
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| [22:27:49] | tonsofpcs: | you're trying to fit a problem to a solution. |
| [22:27:57] | tgm4883: | what? |
| [22:28:19] | tgm4883: | original airdate is the definition of when something first airs |
| [22:28:32] | tonsofpcs: | you're clearly hung up on the data that you claim is available and what should be used. |
| [22:28:44] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, please define new to me |
| [22:28:59] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, as you are clearly hung up on "new" being the end all be all |
| [22:29:34] | tonsofpcs: | to determine if something is new, new matters, yes. |
| [22:29:48] | tonsofpcs: | if this does not make sense to you, I'm really not sure why we are conversing. |
| [22:30:05] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, you are the one who wanted to argue new |
| [22:30:26] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I've always said it doesn't matter because it's an inferior way of scheduling things (and thus we shouldn't use it) |
| [22:30:30] | tonsofpcs: | we're trying to apply a word within our language to a concept. Without any grasp on that concept, how can we apply a word to it? |
| [22:30:31] | tgm4883: | but whatever |
| [22:30:57] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, you still haven't defined new (not that I really care) |
| [22:30:59] | tonsofpcs: | you're the one who keeps bringing up scheduling. |
| [22:31:10] | tonsofpcs: | no, I haven't yet, because I'm typing other things. |
| [22:31:31] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, correct. I keep bringing it up because isn't that what matters? |
| [22:31:50] | tonsofpcs: | since when does scheduling of recordings matter for how listings are displayed? |
| [22:32:13] | tonsofpcs: | and if 'new' can be applied to listings, why can't it also be applied to schedulings? |
| [22:32:51] | ** tgm4883 sighs ** | |
| [22:33:21] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, you wanted to define new. Let me remind you that you wanted to do this because I believe the "new" flag on that listing is incorrect |
| [22:34:27] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I'm not saying that you can't use the "new" flag. I'm saying 2 things. 1) it shouldn't be used because it's an inferior way of doing scheduling, and 2) I believe the "new" flag on that example listing is wrong |
| [22:34:28] | tonsofpcs: | a piece of content is new to a population if it is the first time that population en mass has had access to that content |
| [22:35:38] | tonsofpcs: | a program block (30 or 60 minutes in this case) is new if the substantial portion of that block is new content |
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| [22:36:48] | tgm4883: | ok, so lets take your definition then (as I wanted to like a billion years ago) |
| [22:36:53] | tonsofpcs: | seeing as televison stations and cable systems have a defined reach and programs have contracts granting "first air" to specific groups, it is quite trivial to determine if a program is new for the population served. |
| [22:38:00] | tgm4883: | So with that understanding, mythtv is listing that first showing as a rerun (which with your definition would be incorrect) |
| [22:38:41] | tgm4883: | With that definition, we'll also assume that the guide data listing is marked "new" correctly (making mythtv the issue here) |
| [22:39:13] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, so for the sake of progress, lets say mythtv is showing the listing correct as a "new" episode |
| [22:39:16] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, now what |
| [22:39:54] | tonsofpcs: | btw: stations submit data of their content to three or four different aggregation services who then mangle it into their own data format. This data sometimes includes a field or fields provided by the station (who may garner data from a program provider). These aggregators license out that data. |
| [22:39:59] | tonsofpcs: | now what what? |
| [22:40:20] | tonsofpcs: | if it shows it as a new episode, it's functioning correctly in this example... |
| [22:40:32] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, is that the only issue then? |
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| [22:40:58] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: there's a trac database full of issues. |
| [22:41:11] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I feel like we have a language barrier here |
| [22:41:34] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, so for what we are discussing right now, is that the only issue? |
| [22:41:51] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, once it shows "new" in the listing, then what? |
| [22:42:14] | tonsofpcs: | if that show were showing new, I would not have brought up that it didn't show new... |
| [22:42:54] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, because honestly, with that flag in the listing data I feel like http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6txqu3PGI1qjhrip.gif |
| [22:43:38] | tgm4883: | because I'm trying to progress futher than people being tied down by listing data and when shows air |
| [22:44:38] | tgm4883: | I mean, knowing if a particular episode was new or not did matter in the 90's when you had to either be there to watch it or get a VHS tape and program the VCR to record |
| [22:44:53] | tgm4883: | but it's 2013 and people shouldn't need to micromanage their TV viewing |
| [22:45:52] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: right, I should be able to tell my DVR to only record new things and not show me old things. When I'm browsing schedules looking at interesting shows, I don't want to read every show, only ones marked new. |
| [22:46:44] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, which is all fine and dandy if you are recording one show. But really sucks if you record multiple shows. |
| [22:47:02] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: I don't follow. |
| [22:47:37] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, so let me go back to a previous question |
| [22:47:38] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, so take two upcoming recordings. One at 10PM, the other at 2AM the next day. Both are the same episode (the 2AM is just a rebroadcast of the 10PM episode). The episode originally aired back in 2012 (as our example did). The 10PM episode is marked as "New". Which showing records? What happens if there is a scheduling conflict with the 10PM episode? |
| [22:48:55] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: the scheduling engine looks to find what it has been told to record (in your example, two 10pm "new" shows), when it discovers a conflict (we're assuming one tuner here, I guess), it finds which one it can find next first (the 2am refeed, I guess) and swaps that one out so that both shows are available as soon as possible, unless told that one is more important. |
| [22:49:03] | clever: | if each episode has a unique subtitle and you have a normal rule on it, i think it will pick the one of each episode automaticaly |
| [22:49:19] | clever: | assuming you didnt lock it to 10pm only |
| [22:49:57] | tgm4883: | clever, it's locked to "new episode only", meaning that the "new" flag has to be set on the listing |
| [22:50:11] | tgm4883: | clever, not the way that "new episodes" are currently defined |
| [22:50:21] | clever: | ah |
| [22:50:31] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, why would it ever schedule the 2AM episode? that one isn't marked "new" |
| [22:50:37] | tonsofpcs: | who says that telling something to record "new episodes" locks it to recording things marked new? |
| [22:50:51] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: because it tries recording at 10pm and is told it can't so it finds the next showing of that episode. |
| [22:50:59] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, because that is what it does? |
| [22:51:11] | tonsofpcs: | no, because that makes sense in any sane world. |
| [22:51:25] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, seriously WTF are you talking about? |
| [22:51:58] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, If "new" episode didn't lock it into "new episodes only" then WTF are you even setting that in the schedule? |
| [22:52:28] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: (1) I wasn't setting anything in a schedule, I was browsing listings (2) I have enough tuners to record everything available simultaneously. |
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| [22:53:18] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I'm having a real difficultly discussing this with you |
| [22:53:55] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: if you want me to play the role of dumbuser, I will, and i'll explain it simply |
| [22:54:14] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, and I doubt you have enough tuners to record everything simultaneously. If that is true, you either have an insane number of tuners, or not very many channels |
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| [22:54:32] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, no, I want to discuss this with you and come up with a solution that works for everybody |
| [22:54:37] | tonsofpcs: | I want only NEW episodes of The Newsroom. If they aired before today, I don't want them because I watched them on Netflix. I want them to record as soon as feasible once they are available. |
| [22:54:58] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: I have four tuners, There are four OTA channels here (each one has two or three program streams) |
| [22:55:07] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, Is the newsroom the show we were discussing earlier? |
| [22:55:18] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, ah, so not many channels |
| [22:55:36] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: no, it's a show that aired one season and is about to enter a second season, a perfect case for an end-user wanting to record new-episodes only |
| [22:55:58] | tonsofpcs: | (it's an HBO show so I wouldn't get it anyway, it's just a simple case) |
| [22:56:47] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, if it's ok with you, can we use the previous show that we were discussing (the one that originally aired in the UK in 2012)? The current example should record just fine with the current way "new episode only" works |
| [22:57:20] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, although personally, I think a "after X date" would be a better solution than "new episodes only" |
| [22:57:59] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: sure but I don't see how there's a difference other than that someone wouldn't be setting up a 'new episodes only' record for Bletcher at this point unless they just watched the first two episodes in front of a tv or online |
| [22:58:19] | tonsofpcs: | err, Bletchely |
| [22:58:25] | tonsofpcs: | "The Bletchley Circle" |
| [22:58:56] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, are you saying to completely throw out "original airdate"? |
| [22:59:09] | tonsofpcs: | no |
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| [22:59:40] | tonsofpcs: | I'm saying if the content source says "this is new", we should just accept that it is new and skip the rest of our possible ways of determining if it is new. |
| [23:00:22] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, ok, but you fail to explain how in the above example it would ever schedule the 2AM recording if there was a conflict |
| [23:01:00] | tonsofpcs: | example: The nightly news on ABC and NBC here (coowned, same channel) airs three times a night. The first airing could be flagged new by the station (i've really never checked) but because of how Tribune handles it, the "original air date" is the first day that "Newschannel34 at 7" aired... in the 80s or something. |
| [23:01:11] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: Conflicts are resolved after content is scheduled. |
| [23:02:00] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: for a rule that says 'record new episodes', the new episodes are marked to be recorded. Conflict resolution runs *after* all 'to be recorded's are set and records a different airing of an episode that is in conflict. |
| [23:02:25] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, yes, but how is mythtv suppose to know that the showing at 2AM is the same episode as the one at 10PM, since you've marked the schedule as "new episodes only" and the 2AM is not marked as "new" |
| [23:03:41] | tonsofpcs: | because the guide data says that the 10pm episode is #103 and the 2am episode is also #103 (and all of the other data matches too) |
| [23:03:41] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/103 ** | |
| [23:03:41] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/103 ** | |
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| [23:07:30] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, you are in the US? |
| [23:07:59] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: yes. |
| [23:08:53] | tgm4883: | that might work here. I'd like it more if someone from another country could weigh in |
| [23:10:03] | tgm4883: | still, i'd prefer a "recordings airing after X date" or even better a "season X or later" |
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| [23:11:09] | tonsofpcs: | well, 'season' isn't well defined everywhere. Some producers just increment episode numbers by 100, some continue their sequence, some jump around in episode number as the episode number is more referential to production order than air order |
| [23:11:45] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, it would have to be a tie in with thetvdb. |
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| [23:12:28] | tgm4883: | it would have to pull more data from thetvdb (one for each possible recording of a scheduled show) and then figure out the season/episode from there |
| [23:12:52] | tgm4883: | "after X date" would be easier, but less useful than "after season" |
| [23:13:02] | tonsofpcs: | what does 'after x date' mean though? |
| [23:13:20] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, record anything that originally aired after <DATE> |
| [23:13:44] | tonsofpcs: | and how does that work with the current example? with my news example? |
| [23:13:56] | tonsofpcs: | (yes, I'm well aware that the news example is terrible, but it is true) |
| [23:14:38] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, that way, you could get back episodes from a certain season (I've often found that the latest DVD release of a show is 2 seasons behind the currently airing season) |
| [23:15:12] | tgm4883: | yes, the news example does suck. Not sure it would help. Honestly they need to fix their data |
| [23:15:45] | tgm4883: | although the scheduling guru is against it, that is one that would probably work for a "this timeslot" schedule |
| [23:16:22] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I havn't put a ton of thought into news recordings, as recording news just feels wrong |
| [23:17:14] | tgm4883: | in that, news programs are already behind (since they have to produce the show and are generally behind the internet anyway), and recording them for viewing later makes then even further out of date |
| [23:17:20] | tonsofpcs: | but their data (assuming they flag the first airing each night) is correct. |
| [23:17:21] | tonsofpcs: | *checks zap2it* |
| [23:17:21] | tonsofpcs: | oh, it gets even better with them... They flag the first airing as new but on nights that it is delayed and the ABC and NBC are simulcast they are both marked as new. |
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| [23:17:29] | tgm4883: | I don't watch news programs, so I'm probably not a good one to try and fix that |
| [23:18:18] | tonsofpcs: | I record jeopardy and wheel of fortune in a "this timeslot schedule" as I record them both every day just so there's something new to watch as filler if I have a half an hour to kill. They sometimes air about 6 times a day and I really don't need the ones that happen when I'm not home to record |
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| [23:18:55] | tonsofpcs: | in this case, I don't care if the syndication hour version is a year old, it's different from yesterday's and that's what matters more than it being 100% original/new |
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| [23:19:24] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, I do similar with Jeopardy and Friends. Jeopardy is set to "any time any channel, keep 2, expire old record new", friends is "any time any channel, keep 5" |
| [23:19:25] | tonsofpcs: | recording news as a 'this timeslot' probably won't work too well on stations that offset their news air time due to sporting events |
| [23:20:01] | tonsofpcs: | oh, I have Jeopardy and Wheel set to "keep 1" |
| [23:20:05] | bentech (bentech!~bentech@host86-148-53-128.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:20:17] | tgm4883: | tonsofpcs, true, assuming that they schedule their news to be offset because of the sporting event |
| [23:20:20] | tonsofpcs: | same with Late Night w/ Letterman although I'll probably kill that record request soon |
| [23:20:37] | tonsofpcs: | they generally do. (Mind you, that offset is rarely correct for the CBS station so it'd still be useless there) |
| [23:20:51] | tgm4883: | Do they move the letterman scheduled time? |
| [23:21:01] | tonsofpcs: | nah, I just never have a chance to watch it |
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| [23:21:12] | tgm4883: | I don't think I've ever seen a program that was actually scheduled later due to a sporting event |
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| [23:21:41] | tgm4883: | usually the sporting events just run over, causing everything to be pushed back, but the guide data isn't going to get updated anyway in that case |
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| [23:22:37] | tonsofpcs: | aside: I've noticed that Fox and NBC are capable of scheduling sporting events with indefinite end times on sunday and having their new programming blocks line up properly (the worst I've seen was a 6 minute offset on Fox right after the event). CBS seems to just blow through – the best I've seen was 4 minutes, the worst recently (last week I think?) 57 minutes, the worst overall was beyond an hour. |
| [23:22:38] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: it happens for baseball on a weekday evening a lot. |
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| [23:23:09] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: see, if we could use EIT/ETT data to update SD data then in theory it would be updated. In practice, no one updates that either ;) |
| [23:23:35] | tgm4883: | "in a perfect world" |
| [23:23:37] | tonsofpcs: | (ok, the big markets might and as we see a convergence on BXF for schedule modification, I'm sure we'll see more of it in smaller markets) |
| [23:24:03] | tonsofpcs: | I've updated EIT tables manually during an airing show before... |
| [23:24:07] | tgm4883: | Actually, in a perfect world, we'd just stream all this over the internet and "channels" and "timeslots" would just go away |
| [23:24:30] | tonsofpcs: | tgm4883: I need a fresh cup of tea to talk scheduling and internet-tv-replacement ;) |
| [23:24:36] | tgm4883: | heh |
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| [23:24:44] | tgm4883: | I can't talk that now, I've got other things I should be doing |
| [23:24:57] | tgm4883: | the wife has been giving me this look that suggests I have things to do |
| [23:25:10] | tonsofpcs: | I am happy that I saw an article that program providers finally understand – if they provide easy access (even if it is paid) to content, people won't go torrenting it all |
| [23:26:16] | tonsofpcs: | I explained this to someone who handled program distribution (I forget who for) at a conference once while a guy who worked at BBC America (and admitted he torrented programs that BBC Am aired) sat with us and agreed on all points. I remember that we used PBS' NOVA as an example program but she wasn't from PBS... |
| [23:28:41] | tonsofpcs: | basically: "we made this thing where you can pay us [some tiny sum] per episode to watch, we're really excited about it" and I was like "yes, but how much of my time does it take to give you that [tiny sum]?" I need to set up an account, enter credit card details every time (because I won't trust you to hold them), maybe go through an entire paypal checkout process, so I might have to log in to three sites... Now I can type over 20 W |
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