| Sunday, April 7th, 2013, 00:04 UTC | ||
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| [00:26:15] | mattwj2002: | hi al |
| [00:26:18] | mattwj2002: | *all |
| [00:26:19] | mattwj2002: | :) |
| [00:26:41] | mattwj2002: | mythtv peeps here? |
| [00:28:39] | mattwj2002: | I have a few bugs in my latest mythtv setup :( |
| [00:32:36] | mattwj2002: | for example |
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| [00:33:12] | mattwj2002: | I am trying to pick up nbc with mythtv and it works the hdhomerun tool on my windows machine |
| [00:33:28] | mattwj2002: | mythtv choaks! |
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| [00:56:12] | mattwj2002: | I figured out the symptom |
| [00:56:19] | mattwj2002: | it doesn't want to play hd |
| [00:56:33] | mattwj2002: | sd is fine |
| [00:56:35] | mattwj2002: | :( |
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| [01:21:07] | wagnerrp: | what hardware? |
| [01:23:01] | mattwj2002: | HP P2–1300W |
| [01:23:26] | mattwj2002: | http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/product?cc . . . duct=5156897 |
| [01:23:35] | mattwj2002: | oops |
| [01:24:32] | mattwj2002: | it is some apu processor dual core |
| [01:24:46] | mattwj2002: | ati hd 6000 series graphics |
| [01:25:11] | wagnerrp: | an E300 will not support HD playback if you can't get VAAPI working |
| [01:25:22] | wagnerrp: | and don't expect much success in getting VAAPI working |
| [01:25:57] | mattwj2002: | O.o |
| [01:26:16] | wagnerrp: | o.O |
| [01:26:39] | mattwj2002: | lol |
| [01:27:02] | mattwj2002: | I thought this should have been good enough to handle hd for Pete Sake |
| [01:27:10] | mattwj2002: | it is a fairly new PC |
| [01:28:13] | wagnerrp: | this 1.8GHz Opteron i have sitting next to me as a dev box is more powerful |
| [01:28:16] | wagnerrp: | and i built it in 2005 |
| [01:28:34] | wagnerrp: | and i still don't trust it to play HD content reliably |
| [01:28:42] | wagnerrp: | i have an nvidia card in it for VDPAU |
| [01:29:13] | mattwj2002: | that sucks |
| [01:29:28] | mattwj2002: | well I can dump HD at least hopefully |
| [01:29:39] | mattwj2002: | I have plenty of other ways to play HD |
| [01:29:51] | wagnerrp: | i would suggest getting an nvidia card for hardware accelerated decoding |
| [01:29:58] | wagnerrp: | but that board does not appear to have any expansion slots |
| [01:30:22] | wagnerrp: | you would have been better off going with an Atom/ION |
| [01:30:30] | mattwj2002: | that is true |
| [01:31:15] | mattwj2002: | at least I know the problem |
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| [05:45:28] | Korny: | oh how I love ssh tunels, its like being at home but not :) |
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| [07:23:39] | Demon_Fox: | Anyone here convert stuff with x264? |
| [07:24:03] | Demon_Fox: | I was wondering the speed at 1080p film |
| [07:25:49] | Demon_Fox: | on an i7 |
| [07:26:01] | Demon_Fox: | One of those nice six core ones |
| [07:26:11] | Demon_Fox: | Just kind of wondered if the speed was like 4fps |
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| [07:26:20] | Demon_Fox: | using preset veryslow |
| [07:27:02] | Korny: | sure |
| [07:27:07] | Korny: | six core? |
| [07:27:12] | Demon_Fox: | yeah |
| [07:27:24] | Demon_Fox: | Maybe instead of 4fps it is 6fps |
| [07:28:02] | Korny: | Sounds about right |
| [07:28:19] | Korny: | maybe a little faster, my 1055t is about that speed, so maybe 8–9? |
| [07:28:35] | Demon_Fox: | I wonder the speed of 480p content |
| [07:28:38] | Demon_Fox: | now |
| [07:28:46] | Demon_Fox: | I mean at the moment |
| [07:29:09] | Demon_Fox: | I am guessing real time |
| [07:29:24] | Korny: | well dvd's I do in 20 minutes on my laptop |
| [07:29:36] | Korny: | i7 3610qm |
| [07:29:44] | Demon_Fox: | on veryslow? |
| [07:30:21] | Korny: | What are you using to convert it? I'm using handbrake x264 and rf factor of 20 I believe |
| [07:30:38] | Demon_Fox: | Here is what I am using: |
| [07:31:01] | Demon_Fox: | x264 --preset veryslow --profile high --tune film --input-csp yuv420p --crf 19 |
| [07:31:52] | Korny: | whats the preset veryslow for? |
| [07:32:00] | Demon_Fox: | Sets higher settings |
| [07:32:12] | Demon_Fox: | for 10% better compression over slower on average |
| [07:32:29] | Korny: | I'm always using handbrake and have been happy with rf 20 for both blurays and dvd's |
| [07:32:51] | Demon_Fox: | Sounds like you are using xvid |
| [07:32:56] | Korny: | no |
| [07:33:12] | Korny: | I'm using x264 encoder |
| [07:33:30] | Demon_Fox: | Do you have a vob ripped to your hard drive? |
| [07:33:56] | Demon_Fox: | Try those settings and |
| [07:34:00] | Demon_Fox: | wait |
| [07:34:00] | Demon_Fox: | no |
| [07:34:09] | Demon_Fox: | The full line looks like: |
| [07:34:17] | Demon_Fox: | x264 --preset veryslow --profile high --tune film --input-csp yuv420p --crf 19 -o output input |
| [07:36:24] | Demon_Fox: | The only annoying thing about --preset veryslow is trellis 2 |
| [07:36:47] | Demon_Fox: | since it adds a bit of noise for a lot longer compression time |
| [07:38:48] | Korny: | Can't, first off at work and my desktop is off at the moment and secondly I use handbrake gui which which does x264 options automatically, case and point CLI Query: -i E:\ -t 45 -c 1–32 -o "C:\temp\Movies\Toystory1.mkv" -f mkv --decomb -w 720 --loose-anamorphic -e x264 -q 20 --vfr -a 1,1 -E faac,copy:ac3 -B 160,160 -6 dpl2,auto -R Auto,Auto -D 0,0 --gain=0,0 --audio-copy-mask none --audio-fallback ffac3 --markers="C:\Users\Aaron\AppData\Local\Temp\T |
| [07:38:48] | Korny: | oystory1-45-chapters.csv" -x b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=50 --verbose=1 |
| [07:39:32] | Demon_Fox: | sorry about that |
| [07:39:44] | Demon_Fox: | I did not know the work part |
| [07:40:15] | Korny: | No need to be sorry |
| [07:40:16] | Korny: | I |
| [07:40:32] | Korny: | Its more that my physical computer at home is turned off :) |
| [07:41:03] | Korny: | I currently have a putty session going with 4 ports being tunneled for monitoring my setup |
| [07:41:57] | Demon_Fox: | I actually just kind of wanted to know how slow my computer was compared to an i7 |
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| [07:42:41] | Korny: | What do you have? |
| [07:43:00] | Demon_Fox: | AMD A8 vision |
| [07:43:07] | Demon_Fox: | The hybrid processor |
| [07:44:20] | ** Demon_Fox might idle away for a while ** | |
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| [10:36:06] | bergqvistjl: | I have a problem with mythweb on the 0.26-fixes branch (compiled an hour ago). If I bootup my system normally, mythweb complains that it can't connect to the backend, despite the fact that the backend appears to be running fine. However if I then restart mythbackend (without touching apache), mythweb then connects fine once it's restarted. Can you help? |
| [10:36:34] | bergqvistjl: | the restart of mythbackend is done in the same way as how it starts on bootup, same arguments, same user. |
| [10:36:38] | bergqvistjl: | and I don't touch apache either. |
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| [10:53:42] | bergqvistjl: | I solved the problem. despite Wants=httpd.service already being in the systemd service file for mythbackend, i added httpd to the After=section as well. I guess mythbackend was loading before Apache had finished loading fully then. Odd |
| [11:03:41] | jarle: | Have a look at the EIT log from my backend. Does this look normal, I have 5 minute set as timeout for eit, but still no new EIT log entries after more than ten minutes?? http://pastebin.com/ceSkacC5 |
| [11:04:30] | jarle: | It should at least tell me that it is now tuning to a new multiplex after the fisrst 5 minutes has passed? |
| [11:05:57] | jarle: | Who is moderating the mythtv-users mailing list? My post is still awaiting moderation since I posted it yesterday... |
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| [13:37:19] | wagnerrp_: | Demon_Fox: video encoding is simply a very intensive process, and there's no way around that |
| [13:37:29] | wagnerrp_: | more so when you're using a preset titled "very slow" |
| [13:39:26] | wagnerrp_: | last time i tried any serious recompression, a 1080i30 (telecined) MPEG2 recording IVTC'd to 1080p24 at ~6Mbps H264 ran around 2fps on my 2.8GHz C2D |
| [13:40:21] | wagnerrp_: | now CPUs have gotten faster, x264 has gotten more efficient, more cores are available, but you're still maybe only talking 10–15fps on a high end single-socket machine |
| [13:40:45] | wagnerrp_: | and those 6-core i7s start at >$500 |
| [13:41:31] | wagnerrp_: | you have to factor in how much more electricity an older SB-E chip is going to pull, including the expensive CPU and expensive motherboard |
| [13:41:40] | wagnerrp_: | and compare that to the cost of simply buying more hard drives |
| [13:42:10] | wagnerrp_: | it's going to take a long time and a lot of movies to make up for the cost difference |
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| [13:43:26] | wagnerrp_: | and don't forget that you're only actually saving maybe $0.50-$1.00 worth of hard drive space (minus increased hardware and electrical costs) on movies that are $10-$20 |
| [13:43:30] | wagnerrp_ is now known as wagnerrp | |
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| [13:46:33] | wagnerrp: | long story short... it's the recommendation that you only bother transcoding out of some hardware need |
| [13:47:09] | wagnerrp: | i.e. you have a cell phone or tablet that cannot handle raw bluray content, so you downscale and recompress a copy for it |
| [13:51:52] | Seeker: | I've been transcoding stuff recently, as my 8TB of HDD space is almost full (blurays are fun :P) |
| [13:51:54] | wagnerrp: | by the way, don't forget that your Trinity A8 is not a true quad-core part |
| [13:52:08] | wagnerrp: | it's closer to a dual core part, with four integer units |
| [13:52:24] | wagnerrp: | it's like having an advanced form of hyperthreading |
| [13:53:08] | Seeker: | my i7–3930k manages to transcode 1080p24 blurays using hight profile with a crf of 20, level 4.1 using x264 preset of 'slow' at around 20fps |
| [13:53:14] | Seeker: | using 10 threads |
| [13:54:22] | wagnerrp: | i've got a 3820 shipping in, probably tuesday |
| [13:54:30] | wagnerrp: | how's the quad-channel treating you? |
| [13:55:41] | Seeker: | It's a really really nice CPU. Got it clocked at 4.3GHz I think, no problems with stability etc. |
| [13:55:53] | Seeker: | Demon_Fox: Why use veryslow? It makes an absolutely tiny difference in file size |
| [13:57:13] | wagnerrp: | supposedly the older SB chips are more reliable overclockers than the new IB chips |
| [13:57:31] | wagnerrp: | something about a poor compound used between the die and the heat spreader |
| [13:57:50] | wagnerrp: | they are lower power in general, but the bad compound means they run hotter |
| [13:58:26] | Seeker: | ah, that sucks |
| [13:58:31] | Seeker: | mine is a SB-E I think |
| [13:59:25] | wagnerrp: | right, all S2011 chips are |
| [14:00:41] | Seeker: | still could do with a faster CPU :P Took about 24 hours to transcode a season of Hous |
| [14:00:44] | Seeker: | *House |
| [14:01:03] | wagnerrp: | get a bigger hard drive |
| [14:01:30] | Seeker: | I also need another bluray drive. At the moment, I'm ripping on my backend, transferring over wired connection to my laptop, moving the laptop to the other half of the network, copying to my desktop and doing the same in reverse |
| [14:01:48] | wagnerrp: | or... a patch cable |
| [14:02:12] | wagnerrp: | why are you running an offline network? |
| [14:02:26] | wagnerrp: | how are you even getting guide data to it? EIT? |
| [14:03:08] | wagnerrp: | or do you have a wireless bridge or something you don't want to traverse with a 30GB M2TS? |
| [14:03:28] | Seeker: | wireless bridge |
| [14:03:56] | Seeker: | and a season of House runs to more like 200GB untranscoded |
| [14:04:25] | Seeker: | takes quite a while over rubbish wifi |
| [14:04:42] | wagnerrp: | well it almost certainly has been transcoded at least once by that point |
| [14:04:56] | Seeker: | I mean since the bluray rip |
| [14:06:33] | Seeker: | after I transcode it, a season drops to around 50GB |
| [14:06:51] | wagnerrp: | eew |
| [14:07:10] | wagnerrp: | although to be honest, there is a lot of slow motion in house |
| [14:07:28] | wagnerrp: | it's not unreasonable to think they needlessly ran high bitrate just to fill the disks |
| [14:07:54] | Seeker: | yeah |
| [14:08:14] | Seeker: | Game of Thrones dropped from 120GB to 50GB (10 episodes). I kept the HD audio for Game of Thrones though |
| [14:08:24] | Seeker: | Just stuck with plain DTS for House. |
| [14:08:30] | wagnerrp: | now game of thrones i would expect to be a lot higher |
| [14:08:56] | wagnerrp: | considering it's HBO, i would expect them to either be using film, or artificially produce film grain, for "artistic" reasons |
| [14:09:03] | wagnerrp: | film grain does not compress well |
| [14:09:16] | Seeker: | Well, a season of house is 23 episodes, a season of game of thrones is 10 |
| [14:09:41] | Seeker: | so each episode is almost double the size (after you allow for the fact that one I've kept HD audio, the other I've thrown it away) |
| [14:09:58] | wagnerrp: | right, but you're going from H264 back to H264 |
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| [14:10:22] | wagnerrp: | the reduced space comes from running a more efficient encoder at more efficient settings |
| [14:10:32] | wagnerrp: | not from any change in the codec itself |
| [14:10:52] | wagnerrp: | i would expect something from hbo to be running a lot closer to the codec's limits than something from fox |
| [14:11:22] | Seeker: | yeah, and the size of the video itself is about double that of house |
| [14:37:35] | wagnerrp: | why not just put the bluray player in your desktop, and let your desktop do the ripping? |
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| [15:40:34] | jarle: | I'm having problems getting more than now/next EIT for a lot of my channels. I see a LOT of messages like "DVBRead mpeg/mpegtables.cpp:218 (VerifyPSIP) – PSIPTable: Failed CRC check 0x3c5028d0 != 0x6382b560 for StreamID = 0x82" when the EIT scanner is working. How to fix? |
| [15:44:17] | jarle: | I seem to have run into http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10495 and http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10781. Maybe my provider changed the streamID lately?? |
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| [15:51:39] | frankster: | question about bbc iplayer nad mythtv: When I try and load something, I get a box that says "click to play" or something. I have connected a mouse but there is no mouse cursor. |
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| [15:51:52] | frankster: | has anyone got this working? |
| [15:51:58] | wagnerrp: | so enable the mouse cursor |
| [15:52:34] | frankster: | brb will find out how to do this |
| [15:52:52] | wagnerrp: | either permanently through the appearance settings, or temporary only the command line |
| [15:55:43] | wagnerrp: | iplayer, and most other plugins in mythnetvision, run a web browser and a flash player |
| [15:56:08] | wagnerrp: | some video players expose interfaces to allow mythtv to control them through javascript |
| [15:56:19] | wagnerrp: | most dont, and require the user manually control them with the mouse cursor |
| [15:56:52] | frankster: | hmm its a shame that the plugins that dont expose an interface don' |
| [15:57:01] | frankster: | don't aujtomatically enable the mouse cursor |
| [15:57:46] | wagnerrp: | !seen stuartm |
| [15:57:46] | MythLogBot: | stuartm was last seen 27 days 17 hours 9 minutes 15 seconds ago |
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| [16:04:21] | Seeker: | wagnerrp: I couldn't be bothered to screw around with changing drives. Have done that now though. |
| [16:06:38] | stuartm: | frankster: if you uncheck the 'Hide mouse cursor' setting under 'Appearance' then it will auto-hide the mouse when no mouse movement is detected for ~3 seconds |
| [16:07:20] | stuartm: | the 'Hide mouse cursor' setting is really just for touchscreen users |
| [16:12:03] | frankster: | stuartm: I've done that and its not as bad as I thoughbt it would be (cos of the autohide) |
| [16:12:05] | frankster: | so thats good |
| [16:12:15] | frankster: | however it turns out theres a sound issue wiht flash |
| [16:12:23] | frankster: | once I actually play |
| [16:12:40] | frankster: | seems like ppl have been having variations of this problem since ubuntu 8 at least |
| [16:13:23] | frankster: | damn flash |
| [16:13:59] | frankster: | has anyone tried to make an iplayer plugin that downloads the flash video file (a la get-iplayer) and plays it directly from within mythtv? |
| [16:14:22] | frankster: | if not that might be an interesting project for me to have a crack at |
| [16:16:20] | wagnerrp: | LIES! |
| [16:16:33] | wagnerrp: | borderlands 2 claimed there was no fall damage regardless of the height |
| [16:16:40] | wagnerrp: | but they do have kill fields in certain maps |
| [16:16:49] | frankster: | that said I'm running mythtv 0.25 so maybe this has all been fixed in 0.26 so I should probably try that |
| [16:17:07] | frankster: | wagnerrp: yeah those bits of the map you can fall off are a bit annoying |
| [16:17:23] | wagnerrp: | i didn't fall off the map |
| [16:17:33] | wagnerrp: | i intentionally jumped from one area of the map to another |
| [16:17:40] | wagnerrp: | except it killed me before i reached the ground |
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| [16:22:03] | stuartm: | heh, I've been playing with steam on linux after years of not playing games, finding that it's still as much as a time blackhole as it ever was e.g. I decide to play something to fill a 30 minute gap and when those 30 minutes are up I suddenly discover that 2–3 hours have passed |
| [16:24:16] | stuartm: | stupidly bought Red Orchestra, RO2 and Killing Floor yesterday in a 'pay what you want' Humble Bundle offer only to realise that they are MP only games, MP games are even worse than SP because you can't just come and go as you want, well you can but it pisses off other players on your team |
| [16:25:05] | frankster: | is there any documentation about mythflash links anywhere? e.g. mythflash://172.16.1.111:6544/InternetContent . . . ode=b01rryzz |
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| [16:26:50] | wagnerrp: | there's the mythnetvision grabber reference on the wiki |
| [16:27:24] | wagnerrp: | basically, that page is a custom HTML page provided by the grabber, to have just the flash player itself, and not the other garbage usually associated with the player |
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| [16:41:26] | frankster: | ok best I've come up with so far is to make a grabber that fires off an instance of get-iplayer in the background. This downloads the iphone version of a video (lower quality). After backgrounding get-iplayer, it returns a url of an html page that waits for a specific filename to be created, which indicates that the get-iplayer download is complete. Then it displays the .flv video without using flash (not quite sur |
| [16:42:07] | frankster: | problem is it needs a dodgy javascript page and relies on a backgrounded get-iplayer process which is a bit hackish |
| [16:42:29] | frankster: | still...should be more reliable than flash... |
| [16:43:29] | wagnerrp: | is that because you're running into cross domain security lockouts preventing you from running it directly in the browser? |
| [16:46:50] | frankster: | I assumed mythtv internal browser wouldn't allow me to invoke a local script |
| [16:47:55] | wagnerrp: | sure. the trouble is if you have to invoke a remote script |
| [16:48:24] | wagnerrp: | the page is loaded locally, so it won't let you run scripts coming from a remote domain |
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| [16:48:56] | wagnerrp: | well... it won't let you do it in the background |
| [16:50:24] | frankster: | ah so the grabber script isn't getting invoked every time you click on a link – only when you ask for the tree view etc? |
| [16:50:44] | frankster: | I think that idea is flawed then |
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| [16:54:18] | wagnerrp: | there are two parts to the grabber |
| [16:54:41] | wagnerrp: | there is the grabber itself, that is invoked to either build a tree view, or search for a specific query |
| [16:55:22] | wagnerrp: | and there is the html wrapper, which can be used to wrap the flash player for various sites for improved behavior |
| [16:55:53] | wagnerrp: | the grabber script can either return a URL direct to the site, or can return the URL to the local wrapper |
| [16:57:13] | wagnerrp: | or should the TOS of the site allow doing so, it can return a direct download link to the video, which will then be downloaded and viewed using mythtv's internal video player |
| [16:57:37] | wagnerrp: | that typically isn't an option |
| [16:57:46] | frankster: | I suspect the issue with iplayer is that the TOS doesn't allow direct download |
| [16:58:24] | frankster: | get-iplayer I think uses flvstreamer to get a direct download anyway |
| [16:59:57] | frankster: | so the trouble is that get-iplayer needs to have run before there is a link that can be viewed |
| [17:01:30] | frankster: | so one hackish way to make this work could be to make a web accessible local script that handles running get-iplayer. Then this script could be passed as a url to mythtv from the grabber |
| [17:02:37] | wagnerrp: | and if iplayer's TOS does not permit direct downloading, and if that is what get-iplayer does, understand this will never be allowed back upstream |
| [17:02:44] | frankster: | yep |
| [17:03:53] | frankster: | I pay BBC licence fee so regardless of any TOS I am morally entitled to watch iplayer stuff on my mythtv box! |
| [17:04:29] | frankster: | but I expect its precisely because of this kind of issue that the iplayer support is a bit flakey |
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| [17:05:03] | frankster: | a technically inferior solution is obliged to be used |
| [17:05:47] | frankster: | so if I pass a url to a local .flv file to mythtv, will it be able to display it? (vlc/mplayer can handle this kind of file) |
| [17:11:13] | frankster: | so another option |
| [17:11:15] | sphery: | wagnerrp: hehe, that was Person of Interest? |
| [17:11:23] | sphery: | (with the dd-wrt) |
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| [17:55:32] | frankster: | well i've made a proof of concept that uses html5 video tag |
| [17:56:15] | frankster: | doesn't autoplay yet so no better than flash so far! |
| [17:56:17] | frankster: | gah |
| [18:00:36] | frankster: | is there a way to get the error console up on mythtv's internal browser? |
| [18:11:31] | wagnerrp: | that would probably be the log files |
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| [18:19:31] | frankster: | so this more or less works except because its playing inside a web page it doesn't use the full extent of the mythtv window |
| [18:20:00] | frankster: | is there a way that I could pass some kind of mythtv url back to mythtv, so that it would be able to read a file off the filesystem and play it using mythtv internal player? |
| [18:20:13] | frankster: | so the scenario would be: |
| [18:20:21] | frankster: | 1) load web page |
| [18:20:33] | frankster: | 2) web page redirects to some link that fires up mythtv internal player |
| [18:21:27] | Demon_Fox: | wagnerrp, From what I understand, h.264 was not really made for massive parallelism. |
| [18:22:32] | wagnerrp: | h264 was absolutely made for parallelism |
| [18:22:47] | wagnerrp: | it has a mechanism where by the video is split into several independent domains |
| [18:22:51] | wagnerrp: | that are all independently encoded |
| [18:23:18] | wagnerrp: | the trouble is that more slices you have, and the more threads you use, the less efficiently you can compress |
| [18:23:18] | Demon_Fox: | That is not what they said in x264 |
| [18:24:17] | Demon_Fox: | I hope daala is better. |
| [18:24:25] | wagnerrp: | daala? |
| [18:24:32] | Demon_Fox: | by xiph |
| [18:24:50] | Demon_Fox: | Supposed to have massive parallelism, so that the standard can actually be useful |
| [18:25:04] | Demon_Fox: | You know, to run on the graphics card |
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| [18:26:30] | wagnerrp: | there are certain parts of the encoder that can be easily parallelizable |
| [18:26:46] | wagnerrp: | and that's because those certain parts are basically a monty carlo search |
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| [18:27:01] | Demon_Fox: | The hope was, a majority of the intensive work could be done on the graphics card. |
| [18:27:33] | wagnerrp: | your macroblock selection and your motion search routines are all just trial and error |
| [18:27:44] | wagnerrp: | you try a bunch of different options, and you see which one is the most efficient |
| [18:27:59] | Demon_Fox: | I have actually wondered about that for a long time |
| [18:28:20] | Demon_Fox: | I could not think of anything faster than trial and error |
| [18:28:59] | wagnerrp: | both of those tasks are common across all intra-coded DCT codec |
| [18:29:35] | Demon_Fox: | From what I understand |
| [18:29:41] | wagnerrp: | but there will always need to be a synchronization step |
| [18:29:45] | wagnerrp: | and that will always be single threaded |
| [18:29:49] | Demon_Fox: | Daala will take more computing power than h.265 |
| [18:30:10] | wagnerrp: | h.265 is basically just an evolutionary advancement on h.264 |
| [18:30:19] | wagnerrp: | there's nothing really new in it |
| [18:30:39] | wagnerrp: | it's just more exhaustive compression, and a better stream compressor |
| [18:31:00] | Demon_Fox: | Daala is supposed to have newer stuff in it |
| [18:31:13] | wagnerrp: | and it internally operates at 12-bit per channel or something, to reduce quantization errors |
| [18:31:28] | wagnerrp: | basically, it's the whole 10-bit h264 fad done properly |
| [18:31:30] | Demon_Fox: | Don't forget about the 12 tap |
| [18:31:36] | Demon_Fox: | intra something |
| [18:34:06] | Demon_Fox: | wagnerrp, Sorry, I was just hoping for something that could be done on a graphics card. |
| [18:35:34] | wagnerrp: | a lot of h264 could be done just fine on a GPU |
| [18:35:46] | wagnerrp: | someone just has to take the time to write and optimize it |
| [18:36:32] | wagnerrp: | and a vector processor is a wholly different beast from the traditional superscaler units programmers are used to dealing with |
| [18:38:23] | Demon_Fox: | true |
| [18:38:32] | Demon_Fox: | I like how arm processors are trying to take over |
| [18:38:57] | Demon_Fox: | The assembly is kind of like what I thought a graphics card might have |
| [18:39:15] | wagnerrp: | the trouble with ARM is that there are a lot of tasks that simply cannot be easily threaded |
| [18:39:25] | wagnerrp: | and you need good single-threaded throughput |
| [18:39:44] | wagnerrp: | and when you try to make an ARM good for single-threaded throughput, power consumption shoots through the roof |
| [18:40:03] | Demon_Fox: | ? |
| [18:40:13] | Demon_Fox: | oh |
| [18:40:16] | Demon_Fox: | I think I remember |
| [18:40:30] | Demon_Fox: | Because it likes to keep parts at idle to save power |
| [18:40:39] | Demon_Fox: | and reduce its heat |
| [18:41:14] | Demon_Fox: | wait, maybe I don't get it |
| [18:41:17] | wagnerrp: | no, just because multi-threaded throughput scales linearly, but single-threaded throughput scales exponentially |
| [18:42:04] | wagnerrp: | in order to run twice the clock rate, you have to run higher clock (which increases power linearly), but you also have to bump up the core voltage for stability (which increases power squared) |
| [18:42:11] | Demon_Fox: | This sounds like something I messed in the processors manual |
| [18:42:30] | wagnerrp: | it's why overclockers crank up their Vcore |
| [18:42:49] | wagnerrp: | transistors are fundamentally thermoelectric devices |
| [18:42:58] | wagnerrp: | at one temperature, they operate as an insulator |
| [18:43:04] | wagnerrp: | at another temperature, they operate as a conductor |
| [18:43:22] | Demon_Fox: | semiconductor |
| [18:43:28] | Demon_Fox: | I learned that in electronics |
| [18:43:28] | wagnerrp: | and the higher your clock rate, the faster you need to heat it up to switch in time, and the higher voltage (and amperage) you must run |
| [18:44:05] | Demon_Fox: | Makes sense |
| [18:44:22] | wagnerrp: | so if you want increased single-threaded performance, you have two options |
| [18:44:35] | wagnerrp: | there's the dumb way as described above, just crank up your clock rate |
| [18:45:13] | wagnerrp: | and then there's the smart way, by improving your instruction dispatch and branch predictors, cranking up your IPC, or performance per clock |
| [18:45:15] | ** Demon_Fox knows that Intel cranked the clock up on the P4 and it sucked ** | |
| [18:45:38] | Demon_Fox: | Which I believe Intel did later |
| [18:45:50] | wagnerrp: | the first way keeps a small core running at high speed, the second way makes a large core running at low speed |
| [18:46:04] | wagnerrp: | either way sucks down power |
| [18:46:29] | Demon_Fox: | From what I understand |
| [18:46:52] | Demon_Fox: | arm is making processors for both low power, and high performance situations |
| [18:47:07] | wagnerrp: | sort of... |
| [18:47:08] | Demon_Fox: | A5* vs previous models |
| [18:47:19] | wagnerrp: | ARM is doing their big-little design |
| [18:47:38] | Demon_Fox: | ? |
| [18:47:38] | wagnerrp: | there you have a big/fast/smart core paired with a small/slow/dumb core |
| [18:47:47] | Demon_Fox: | oh |
| [18:47:50] | wagnerrp: | and you dynamically switch between the two depending on your current performance needs |
| [18:48:26] | wagnerrp: | it's a more advanced version of what intel and amd are doing with shutting down cores as demand requires |
| [18:49:17] | wagnerrp: | it allows them to have a high performance processor, that idles at low power |
| [18:49:26] | wagnerrp: | but it does nothing to improve performance-per-watt |
| [18:50:05] | Demon_Fox: | I was Kind of hoping Arm would make a model to compete with x86 stuff. |
| [18:50:55] | wagnerrp: | anyway, the issues with the P4 get into the complexities of superscaler processor design |
| [18:51:09] | wagnerrp: | you have your integer pipeline |
| [18:51:20] | wagnerrp: | and each stage in the pipeline does one part of an integer calculation |
| [18:51:36] | wagnerrp: | each stage can be filled with a different piece of data |
| [18:52:09] | wagnerrp: | the longer your pipeline, the less each individual stage must do per clock cycle, and thus the higher you can drive your clock rate |
| [18:53:04] | wagnerrp: | so a prescott core with a 36 stage pipeline will take 36 clock cycles to get that first calculation through, but will churn out one additional calculation ever cycle after that |
| [18:53:30] | wagnerrp: | compared to a P3 with a 10 stage pipeline that will do the same in 10 cycles, but at one third the clock rate |
| [18:53:52] | wagnerrp: | meaning that first calculation goes through in the same delay, but it only has 1/3 the performance subsequently |
| [18:54:53] | Demon_Fox: | This explains some of the funny things in the Intel manual |
| [18:54:58] | wagnerrp: | anyway, the trouble is that when you have branching code, you might not know what operation to run to keep that pipeline filled |
| [18:55:07] | wagnerrp: | so, you guess |
| [18:55:11] | wagnerrp: | you run one of the possible options |
| [18:55:26] | wagnerrp: | if you guess right, then all is well and the CPU keeps chugging along |
| [18:55:49] | wagnerrp: | if you guess wrong, then you may have run 35 clock cycles of scrap, and have to follow down the other branch |
| [18:56:14] | wagnerrp: | this is called a misprediction, or a pipeline stall, and is a huge detriment to heavily pipelined architectures |
| [18:56:32] | wagnerrp: | the P4 had crappy branch predictors |
| [18:56:46] | wagnerrp: | so with the Core2, intel dropped back to like a 16 stage or something |
| [18:56:54] | Demon_Fox: | I was told the i7 is one of the better processors in this sense |
| [18:57:02] | wagnerrp: | with ivy bridge, they're back up into the mid-20s |
| [18:57:20] | wagnerrp: | but with an extra decade of branch predictor development to do a better job of it, and suffer fewer stalls |
| [18:57:23] | Demon_Fox: | and will drop down to 16 one day |
| [18:57:58] | wagnerrp: | AMD and their bulldozer are struggling with the same problem as the P4 |
| [18:58:09] | Demon_Fox: | In the Intel manual, they emphasized clocks per instruction |
| [18:58:44] | wagnerrp: | they have a very long pipeline in order to reach their clock rate designs, but they're trying to drive two of those long pipelines with a single frontend, and overloading it |
| [18:58:49] | Demon_Fox: | wagnerrp, From what I understand, the bulldozer does 6/8ths the work the i7's can do |
| [18:59:17] | wagnerrp: | you can't really compare the two in that manner |
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| [18:59:43] | wagnerrp: | because their architecture does not have any common "core" to compare |
| [19:00:07] | wagnerrp: | the i7 has a 2-dispatch integer unit, floating point unit, vector unit, and frontend for one core |
| [19:00:38] | wagnerrp: | the bulldozer has two single-dispatch integer units, a floating point unit, a vector unit, and a frontend for one module, which the sales people like to call two cores |
| [19:01:12] | wagnerrp: | clearly with shared hardware, each "core" on a bulldozer isn't going to have the same throughput as one on an i7 |
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| [19:01:21] | Demon_Fox: | I know those things gulp power. |
| [19:01:39] | Demon_Fox: | Not the i7, but the bulldozer |
| [19:02:52] | Demon_Fox: | wagnerrp, I thought it was funny when they called the two units each a core. |
| [19:03:01] | wagnerrp: | what AMD needs to do is double the size of their memory controller |
| [19:03:07] | wagnerrp: | make it four channels |
| [19:03:27] | wagnerrp: | with fusion, they have a real game winner in terms of integrated graphics |
| [19:03:31] | wagnerrp: | intel can't touch it |
| [19:03:42] | wagnerrp: | except... there's so much GPU on there, it's starved for bandwidth |
| [19:04:38] | wagnerrp: | make it a quad-channel controller like G34 and the GPU will be happy |
| [19:04:55] | wagnerrp: | and you'll basically cut the market out for any graphics card under $150 |
| [19:05:29] | Demon_Fox: | I usually get old graphics cards for free. |
| [19:06:46] | Demon_Fox: | GeForce 7600GS |
| [19:07:11] | wagnerrp: | i doubt that could even outperform standard intel graphics these days |
| [19:07:22] | Demon_Fox: | yeah |
| [19:08:00] | wagnerrp: | that was the "cheap" card we were putting in our workstations that had no need for anything special, like 6 years ago |
| [19:08:06] | jarle: | Anybody here using dvb-s EIT on Thor (0,8w) Canal Digital? I seem to have problems with their longterm EIT data at the moment... |
| [19:08:07] | Demon_Fox: | It has half a gig of ram built into its self |
| [19:14:40] | Demon_Fox: | wagnerrp, The other day I wanted to help write a program for a friend that allowed multiple computers to run what one computer would have had to run scalarly |
| [19:15:12] | wagnerrp: | like... a batch manager? |
| [19:15:24] | Demon_Fox: | pretty much |
| [19:15:55] | Demon_Fox: | It was going to be for mass conversions of media |
| [19:16:17] | wagnerrp: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Batch_System |
| [19:16:29] | Demon_Fox: | The calculated cost to run the monster was between 40 and 100 dollars a month |
| [19:16:48] | wagnerrp: | PBS would run just fine |
| [19:17:48] | Demon_Fox: | Could it centralize the output? |
| [19:18:18] | Demon_Fox: | the stdout stuff so it could all be viewed on one machine. |
| [19:18:49] | wagnerrp: | it captures stdout and stderr, and dumps it to a directory chosen by the user |
| [19:18:59] | wagnerrp: | usually either the directory it was run from, or the users' home directory |
| [19:19:40] | wagnerrp: | you set up a job script, you post the script to the batch system, and the batch system runs it on the first available machine(s) that meets the requirement |
| [19:20:13] | Demon_Fox: | Then the idea was to charge for this service. |
| [19:20:13] | wagnerrp: | when we were using it, it was allocating blocks of tens to hundreds of machines at a time |
| [19:20:25] | wagnerrp: | running MPI-linked parallel solvers |
| [19:20:36] | wagnerrp: | but it could just as easily do single processor tasks |
| [19:22:09] | Demon_Fox: | The issue was that it would still take six hours for conversions, but 10 at once, instead of 1 |
| [19:23:41] | wagnerrp: | you could break it into ten segments, encode them separately, and then splice them back together |
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| [19:24:21] | mattwj2002: | well I got my mythtv setup done finally |
| [19:24:39] | Demon_Fox: | wagnerrp, Maybe I should get the setup working on my machines, and start the cluster here. |
| [19:24:51] | mattwj2002: | dedicated backend |
| [19:25:00] | mattwj2002: | using my laptop as a frontend |
| [19:26:01] | wagnerrp: | if you wanted to get really fancy, you could re-implement the multi-threaded sequential encoding as multi-processor, joined using MPI/PVM/LAM/whatever |
| [19:26:35] | wagnerrp: | typically you need to run single-threaded for intra-coding |
| [19:26:50] | wagnerrp: | since one frame needs the encoded form of the previous, to calculate motion vectors and such |
| [19:27:23] | wagnerrp: | but the idea behind the ffmpeg-mt improvements is that one thread handles one frame, slightly delayed from another thread handling another frame |
| [19:27:49] | wagnerrp: | and encodes what it can based off what data the previous frame is finished with |
| [19:28:31] | wagnerrp: | you could do the same thing over the network, and something like MPI could handle all the socket communication for you |
| [19:29:08] | Demon_Fox: | My idea was: |
| [19:29:22] | wagnerrp: | just have a spare thread dedicated towards running forwards and backwards synchronization between groups |
| [19:29:44] | wagnerrp: | but there's still going to be an upper limit to that |
| [19:29:51] | Demon_Fox: | Have a simple C program run a something and write the stdout to a file that is networked and stored on ramdisk to another computer |
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| [19:29:58] | Demon_Fox: | and have that computer read it like a pipe |
| [19:30:20] | wagnerrp: | files? ramdisks? eew |
| [19:30:41] | wagnerrp: | use MPI or similar, or write your own communications protocol |
| [19:32:45] | Demon_Fox: | unix sockets, it is |
| [19:33:56] | Demon_Fox: | Funny thing is that I have hardware that I have had that can be used now. |
| [19:34:10] | Demon_Fox: | Rather funny I have a 16 port Ethernet switch |
| [19:34:19] | Demon_Fox: | I have had for years |
| [19:34:42] | Demon_Fox: | Finally something to put it to good use |
| [19:35:31] | wagnerrp: | there are very few scenario where "use a ramdisk" isn't a recipe for failure |
| [19:35:48] | wagnerrp: | the only reason to use a ramdisk is because you're not writing the software |
| [19:36:12] | wagnerrp: | if you are writing it, either use shared memory, or some variety of IPC |
| [19:37:16] | wagnerrp: | if you're running over the network, and you're not running some funky shared kernel, IPC is the only option |
| [19:37:40] | wagnerrp: | and for clustered applications, MPI, PVM, LAM, there's a whole family of networked IPC frameworks available for use |
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| [19:59:59] | ** Peitolm has noticed this mythtvbe.home:34774->alcor.mythtv.org:http in the output of an 'lsof' run, from googling, it appears to be something related to smolt, is there a way i can disable this? ** | |
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| [20:03:58] | wagnerrp: | if it's related to smolt, disable smolt |
| [20:04:41] | Peitolm: | is there a guide? |
| [20:05:05] | wagnerrp: | go into the frontend, go into the setup wizard, tell it you don't want to partake |
| [20:05:21] | Peitolm: | it's a frontend config? rater than a backend? |
| [20:05:30] | Peitolm: | i don't have a working frontend at the moment |
| [20:05:39] | wagnerrp: | you can force the backend to update against smolt |
| [20:05:45] | wagnerrp: | but only the frontend will do it automatically |
| [20:06:01] | Peitolm: | i don't have any frontends, so... hrm |
| [20:06:05] | wagnerrp: | if you aren't running a frontend, chances are you haven't run smolt |
| [20:06:38] | Peitolm: | hmm, so I wonder why there's an outbound tcp connection |
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| [20:06:52] | wagnerrp: | check your logs, i'm sure they will tell you |
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| [20:09:19] | Peitolm: | hmm, o reference to alcor or smolt in the backend log |
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| [20:10:47] | Peitolm: | and I have 38 of these connections, all in CLOSE_WAIT |
| [20:11:12] | Peitolm: | mythbackend version: fixes/0.26 [v0.26.0] www.mythtv.org |
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| [20:23:32] | wagnerrp: | any chance that's merely you accessing the wiki? |
| [20:25:07] | Peitolm: | nope, be is a headless box |
| [20:26:56] | wagnerrp: | any chance you mistakenly ran lsof on your desktop? |
| [20:27:00] | stuartm: | Peitolm: you did once have a frontend though? |
| [20:27:50] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: we should probably move the smolt setting to mythtv-setup since it applies to the backend |
| [20:28:01] | Peitolm: | yeah, pre 0.26 |
| [20:28:02] | wagnerrp: | no it doesn't |
| [20:28:08] | wagnerrp: | it should, but it doesn't |
| [20:28:17] | wagnerrp: | smolt is only automatically run on startup in the frontend |
| [20:28:34] | Peitolm: | been trying to get the pre-bult ones to work |
| [20:30:26] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: ah, well then that does make this a bit strange, can't think of anything else except smolt that would be accessing mythtv.org |
| [20:30:55] | Peitolm: | as I'm having problems getting it to build |
| [20:31:51] | wagnerrp: | channel icons? |
| [20:32:49] | stuartm: | hmm, yeah but only if you're running doing a channel icon lookup through mythtv-setup, in which case it would query services.mythtv.org |
| [20:33:04] | wagnerrp: | they're on different IP addresses? |
| [20:33:14] | wagnerrp: | remember, lsof just does a reverse IP lookup |
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| [20:33:23] | Peitolm: | services = alcor |
| [20:33:28] | stuartm: | no, alcor/services/wiki etc are all the same IP so would reverse to the same hostname |
| [20:34:15] | stuartm: | but Peitolm have you recently run the channel icon lookup? |
| [20:35:15] | Peitolm: | not to my knowledge |
| [20:35:32] | Peitolm: | certainly don't think i have since I rebooted |
| [20:35:49] | stuartm: | can't be that then |
| [20:36:41] | stuartm: | there's the theme downloader, but that's mythfrontend ... or is it? I know Captain_Murdoch wanted to move it to the backend but I can't remember if he did |
| [20:37:03] | wagnerrp: | yes, the backend periodically checks, and pushes notifications out to frontends |
| [20:37:48] | stuartm: | that'll be it then |
| [20:39:12] | Peitolm: | where's the best place to talk about building the OSX client? |
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| [20:52:43] | stuartm: | Peitolm: -devel mailing list maybe? |
| [20:53:30] | grnbrg: | Any guesses as to the ETA for 0.27? I just picked up a new FE PC, and am trying to figure out if I should wait, or just go with 0.26.... |
| [20:54:31] | wagnerrp: | no sooner than two months |
| [20:54:56] | ** grnbrg hrms. ** | |
| [20:55:11] | grnbrg: | I think I may go with 0.26-fixes at that point. :) |
| [20:55:42] | stuartm: | 0.26.1 will be released soon enough |
| [20:56:10] | wagnerrp: | because 0.26.1 really only needs for someone to spend a few hours going through the motions |
| [20:56:20] | stuartm: | yup |
| [20:56:47] | wagnerrp: | as opposed to 0.27, which will require a freeze date set, plus a month or so of warning before the freeze, then a month or so after the freeze for cleanup before release |
| [20:57:03] | stuartm: | it's more like 30 minutes, if you can remember all the steps in the correct order, which I never can |
| [20:57:09] | grnbrg: | Nice. I'll wait for that then. I think I'm running 0.24 atm... |
| [20:57:39] | wagnerrp: | grnbrg: a point release generally isn't something the average user should be concerned about |
| [20:57:46] | wagnerrp: | since the average user should be running the fixes branch anyway |
| [20:58:04] | wagnerrp: | point releases are really only there for certain distros that require packages only be done on official releases |
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| [20:59:26] | frankster: | im trying to customise a theme but am getting a bit lost |
| [20:59:40] | frankster: | I want to add a button to the main menu |
| [20:59:45] | ** Peitolm tries to remember which stuart was building stuff on osx ** | |
| [20:59:54] | wagnerrp: | the other one |
| [21:00:08] | wagnerrp: | main menu items are in the menu themes, not the UI themes |
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| [21:00:26] | frankster: | that might be the problem |
| [21:00:59] | frankster: | does baseinfo.xml specify which menu theme it imports? |
| [21:01:05] | frankster: | *themeinfo.xml |
| [21:01:07] | wagnerrp: | no |
| [21:01:20] | wagnerrp: | the user selects what menu theme they use |
| [21:02:01] | frankster: | oh is that somewhere else to the ui theme selection then |
| [21:02:10] | frankster: | i had only every seen one type of theme you could select |
| [21:02:13] | frankster: | this explains a few things |
| [21:02:14] | grnbrg: | I'm well beyond an average user. Thanks for the pointers. |
| [21:03:23] | wagnerrp: | someone "well beyond an average user" is someone who compiles their own binaries, potentially with their own patches, off the -fixes branch |
| [21:03:27] | frankster: | ah found it |
| [21:03:37] | wagnerrp: | they still shouldn't be concerned about point releases |
| [21:05:08] | grnbrg: | That would be me. :) Just wondering if the wait was going to be short. I'll pick up 0.26.1 when it ships. |
| [21:05:25] | wagnerrp: | i'm saying DON'T pick up 0.26.1 |
| [21:05:29] | wagnerrp: | run 0.26-fixes |
| [21:05:45] | wagnerrp: | a point release is just a release at some point along the 0.26-fixes branch |
| [21:06:04] | grnbrg: | nodnod. Got it. :) |
| [21:06:09] | tlhiv_laptop (tlhiv_laptop!~foo@c-68-35-204-183.hsd1.al.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [21:08:26] | Seeker`: | wagnerrp: "potentially with their own patches, off the -fixes branch |
| [21:08:32] | Seeker`: | " off master don't you mean? :P |
| [21:09:13] | wagnerrp: | well sure, if they're looking for something only on master, or intend to push those patches back upstream |
| [21:11:37] | Peitolm: | wagnerrp: off the top of your head, do you know where the smolt stuff is confirgured? |
| [21:12:08] | wagnerrp: | the setup wizard, in mythfrontend |
| [21:12:28] | frankster (frankster!~frankster@host86-178-3-106.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) has quit (Quit: leaving) | |
| [21:13:38] | Peitolm: | hmm, i can upload, view and delete, but no option to 'never' |
| [21:13:53] | Peitolm: | ah well, i'm going to make the assumption that this won't be an issue |
| [21:15:06] | wagnerrp: | if you delete it, it will not run |
| [21:15:34] | wagnerrp: | it will only run if it knows it has been run before |
| [21:15:42] | wagnerrp: | so you run it once manually, and it runs automatically thence forth |
| [21:27:06] | Peitolm: | ta |
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| [21:58:49] | mattwj2002: | hi guys |
| [21:59:00] | mattwj2002: | I am using a raspberry pi as a mythtv frontend |
| [21:59:01] | mattwj2002: | :P |
| [22:00:19] | mattwj2002: | it isn't perfect but interesting |
| [22:02:02] | mattwj2002: | not asking for help just sharing |
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| [22:47:48] | Demon_Fox: | mattwj2002, What makes it interesting, outside of the hardware limitations. |
| [22:54:51] | DarthFrog (DarthFrog!~rob@S01060014bfba779e.vn.shawcable.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [22:56:58] | mattwj2002: | the fact that a $35 computer can play 1080p |
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| [22:57:41] | [R]: | how is that interseting? |
| [22:57:50] | [R]: | the chip that does it costs like maybe a dollar or two |
| [22:58:12] | wagnerrp: | it costs more in licensing than manufacturing |
| [23:00:06] | mattwj2002: | well anyways |
| [23:05:53] | mattwj2002: | what is new in mythtv land? |
| [23:05:54] | mattwj2002: | :) |
| [23:07:00] | [R]: | @#%@#$%#% |
| [23:07:05] | [R]: | i'm switching back to cable |
| [23:07:10] | [R]: | and o focurse i dont have my firewire script anymoer |
| [23:07:24] | [R]: | it took me forever to get that perfect |
| [23:07:40] | mattwj2002: | :( |
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| [23:14:45] | tonsofpcs: | switching back to cable?!?! |
| [23:15:35] | tonsofpcs: | It's kinda sad (and kinda hilarious) that here the cable company is buying ad time on the locals to get people to switch back. |
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| [23:31:29] | [R]: | man, those sneaky cable people |
| [23:31:42] | [R]: | i very much can get just tv and internet for a cheap price w/o the stupid phone service |
| [23:32:19] | zoktar (zoktar!~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| [23:32:24] | wagnerrp: | when you have digital phone through cable, do they actually give you the access codes? |
| [23:33:01] | [R]: | access code? |
| [23:33:06] | wagnerrp: | SIP login |
| [23:33:10] | [R]: | of course not |
| [23:33:10] | [R]: | rofl |
| [23:33:21] | [R]: | so the difference is $10 to get it with the phone service |
| [23:33:23] | wagnerrp: | could you get them if you asked? |
| [23:33:25] | [R]: | and it comes with a docsis3 modem |
| [23:33:28] | [R]: | probably not |
| [23:33:38] | [R]: | which would be the only erason i'd care... except the price of a docsis modem isn't $240 |
| [23:33:43] | [R]: | which is what i'd be paying for it $10 for 2 years |
| [23:33:54] | [R]: | seeing as i'd never use the stupid phone |
| [23:34:29] | wagnerrp: | it's really convenient to have phones scattered around the house, and not have to carry my cell phone around |
| [23:34:58] | sid3windr: | how does having a SIP login change that? |
| [23:35:01] | [R]: | i have a small 2 bedroom condo |
| [23:35:13] | wagnerrp: | i'm not saying it does |
| [23:35:16] | [R]: | my cell is always in the livign room, and i'm always in the livign room |
| [23:35:21] | wagnerrp: | i'm saying having a land-line versus not |
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| [23:35:26] | sid3windr: | ah :) |
| [23:35:34] | sid3windr: | my cell is in my pocket, I'm always right next to my pocket |
| [23:35:55] | wagnerrp: | of course you can always set up asterix as a bluetooth headset |
| [23:35:57] | sid3windr: | would be handy if I had the sip login for my cable modem's fxs |
| [23:36:07] | sid3windr: | would save me a pci slot for the cheapass fxo interface |
| [23:36:17] | sid3windr: | and redundant cabling |
| [23:37:39] | [R]: | i asked the guy about ipv6 |
| [23:37:41] | [R]: | he had no clue |
| [23:37:42] | [R]: | shocking |
| [23:37:47] | [R]: | i know you need a docsis3 for that |
| [23:37:56] | wagnerrp: | ... what that was? |
| [23:38:26] | wagnerrp: | i'm still pissed off that my ISP cut me back from 6 to 1 IP address |
| [23:38:43] | [R]: | so that is somethign i was wondering |
| [23:38:55] | [R]: | when ipv6 comes, everyone *should* in theory have tons of ips |
| [23:39:02] | [R]: | at that point, do you run a firewall in a bypass mode? or soemthign? |
| [23:39:04] | [R]: | and not do nat? |
| [23:39:16] | wagnerrp: | 2^64 IPs, specifically |
| [23:39:35] | wagnerrp: | that's correct. you simply use a bridged firewall, as opposed to a NAT router |
| [23:40:06] | [R]: | do consumer routers support that though? i guess stupid question... i doubt they "support" ipv6 to begin with |
| [23:40:13] | wagnerrp: | the only reason one might want to continue using NAT would be to disguise their internal network |
| [23:40:24] | wagnerrp: | so that people are only aware of the one internal node |
| [23:40:27] | [R]: | wagnerrp: do you think isps will hand out 64's though? |
| [23:40:29] | wagnerrp: | of course that's of dubious value |
| [23:40:41] | wagnerrp: | that's how it's designed |
| [23:40:52] | [R]: | i know thats how its designed, doesn't mean they will |
| [23:40:54] | wagnerrp: | the smallest allocatable unit is supposed to be a /64 |
| [23:41:13] | wagnerrp: | and the standard ISP request is a /48 |
| [23:41:36] | [R]: | wahts the name of that autoconfig thign? its based on the mac address right? |
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| [23:42:05] | wagnerrp: | yeah, the second 64-bits are generated in a pseudorandom manner based off the MAC |
| [23:42:55] | wagnerrp: | i'm fairly certain my modem is not capable of IPv6 |
| [23:43:04] | [R]: | well i know cox is a few years behind schedule |
| [23:43:06] | wagnerrp: | not that it matters, since it cannot operate in anything but NAT mode |
| [23:43:14] | [R]: | they were supposed to roll out like dec 11 |
| [23:43:48] | wagnerrp: | they were still recovering from a surprise attack |
| [23:44:24] | [R]: | http://thuktun.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/no-ip . . . ons-coxcomm/ |
| [23:44:25] | [R]: | ROFL |
| [23:44:30] | [R]: | i love online chats |
| [23:45:11] | wagnerrp: | is denice a real human? |
| [23:45:14] | [R]: | haha |
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| [23:45:30] | wagnerrp: | seriously, it has about as much intelligence as those chat bots |
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| [23:46:31] | [R]: | so i suppose on my router i just bridge my wan with my lan and call it a day? |
| [23:46:49] | wagnerrp: | assuming their network supports such operation |
| [23:47:01] | [R]: | \i'm gonna call them |
| [23:47:02] | [R]: | i love calling cox |
| [23:47:13] | [R]: | i once called about firewire and she was like "oh firewall? let me transfer you" |
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| [23:47:30] | wagnerrp: | "my wire is on fire!" |
| [23:48:08] | wagnerrp: | ethan anderson is a tool |
| [23:48:43] | wagnerrp: | seriously dude. you can't grow a mustache, so don't even try... |
| [23:49:23] | [R]: | whats that frfom? |
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| [23:49:41] | wagnerrp: | the first (and only) comment at the bottom of your link |
| [23:54:10] | emmanuelux (emmanuelux!~emmanuelu@vau92-2-82-228-217-1.fbx.proxad.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | |
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