Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, April 30th, 2012, 00:04 UTC

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k-man:

is there any need to do database maintenance?

[00:28:50]

k-man:

like this old pages refers to? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Manual:Periodic_Maintenance

[00:28:54]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you hear anything about this 'NVEnc'?

[00:29:59]

wagnerrp:

apparently its a h264 hardware encoder on the new GTX-6xx series

[00:30:17]

wagnerrp:

support for 4096x4096 video, and plans for access through CUDA

[00:30:37]

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[00:45:56]

jya:

wagnerrp: I'm pretty cure you could do hardware accelerated decoding with vdpau in a buffer. just that we chose to use VDPAU rendering too, which mean we have no access to the decoded data

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[00:53:09]

wagnerrp:

jya: im talking about encoding

[00:53:50]

wagnerrp:

akin to intel's quicksync stuff

[00:53:57]

jya:

wagnerrp: and it can do encoding alreadyâ€¦ however, it was found to not be much faster than what your typical software encoder would do

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jya:

it's like just fast enough for 1:1 (e.g. 60fps)

[00:54:42]

wagnerrp:

VDPAU is decoding only, stuff like badaboom used CUDA for encoding

[00:55:20]

jya:

wagnerrp: I wasn't referring to vdpau specifically. but that the existing and earlier card already provides such mechanism

[00:55:44]

jya:

now this new one may be faster, haven't checked

[01:12:51]

FLeiXiuS`:

Meh my ltsp client is sitting at ip-config. I dont understand how it doesn't receive an address over DHCP even though it pxe'd fine.

[01:13:29]

wagnerrp:

how long is it allowed to wait for an address?

[01:13:38]

wagnerrp:

what version did you upgrade from?

[01:13:41]

wagnerrp:

(kernel version)

[01:13:50]

FLeiXiuS`:

3.2.0–24

[01:14:08]

FLeiXiuS`:

It's been waiting for over 3 minutes.

[01:14:09]

wagnerrp:

i mean thats what you are at now, what were you at when it last worked?

[01:14:18]

FLeiXiuS`:

Meh 2.4

[01:14:18]

FLeiXiuS`:

;-)

[01:14:48]

FLeiXiuS`:

this is a fresh build of 12.04 ubuntu though

[01:14:53]

FLeiXiuS`:

So that shouldnt matter.

[01:15:14]

wagnerrp:

somewhere around 2.6.30, i started having problems with the forcedeth (nvidia) network driver on a NF4 board

[01:15:32]

FLeiXiuS`:

wagnerrp, Im not even there yet. Im still in a VM

[01:15:54]

wagnerrp:

some kind of timeout that causes it to wait 20 seconds from bringing the interface up until it actually starts receiving data

[01:24:06]

FLeiXiuS`:

wagnerrp, In VirtualBox?

[01:24:21]

wagnerrp:

no, i was expecting real hardware

[01:24:57]

FLeiXiuS`:

wagnerrp, gotcha. Yeah Im working it through a VM right now..trying to get it to load. It may be an issue with my DHCP Server.

[01:28:39]

FLeiXiuS`:

Something is telling me if i run downstairs and boot my client it'll work perfectly.

[01:30:01]

FLeiXiuS`:

I see the offer going to my box vm, but the ack never makes it back

[01:30:09]

FLeiXiuS`:

Grr brb

[01:43:25]

FLeiXiuS`:

heh worked

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[02:21:26]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: cool

[02:21:48]

Beirdo:

jya: yes, we can access the decoded buffer just fine, I do that in gpucommflag

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[03:01:08]

k-man:

jya, have you ever had a problem in OSX where launching the mythfrontend app from spotlight, it fails to find the DB, but launching from finder or a terminal (using open) it works fine?

[03:01:27]

jya:

k-man: never tried

[03:01:37]

jya:

don't see why it would make a difference

[03:01:57]

k-man:

jya, me either but thats an issue i have found

[03:02:15]

k-man:

jya, afaik, apps launched from spotlight get a different environment than launched other ways

[03:02:34]

jya:

just did

[03:02:38]

jya:

working perfectly here

[03:02:41]

k-man:

ok

[03:02:44]

k-man:

thanks

[03:03:05]

k-man:

jya, local or remote backend?

[03:03:10]

jya:

and as the application is fully self-contained, what environment you set is completely irrelevant as far as I know

[03:03:11]

jya:

remote

[03:03:18]

jya:

with remote mysql

[03:03:52]

k-man:

thanks – must be some weird thing on my system then

[03:04:44]

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[03:18:30]

Beirdo:

la la la

[03:20:49]

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[03:22:21]

Beirdo:

Hmm, I wonder what all uses CAN bus

[03:24:21]

[R]:

cars

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[03:28:30]

FLeiXiuS`:

[R], You running 0.24 or?

[03:28:53]

FLeiXiuS`:

The mythbuntu ppa for 0.24 precise was emptied.

[03:28:59]

[R]:

25

[03:29:01]

FLeiXiuS`:

Meh

[03:29:09]

[R]:

wh oruns 24 still

[03:29:11]

FLeiXiuS`:

25 has livetv issues for my hdhr.

[03:29:12]

[R]:

thats so 2011

[03:29:19]

[R]:

livetv is so 1980s

[03:29:24]

FLeiXiuS`:

[R], ;-) true dat

[03:29:30]

FLeiXiuS`:

But the girlfirend loves it

[03:29:39]

FLeiXiuS`:

Also cmyth works a lot better with 0.24

[03:30:17]

[R]:

i finsihed tewaking my frontend stuff today

[03:30:23]

[R]:

although i still need to remoev that ip address hardcoded in there

[03:30:24]

[R]:

lol

[03:30:48]

FLeiXiuS`:

[R], hard coding IP's is so 1990 ;-)

[03:30:54]

wagnerrp:

FLeiXiuS`: cmyth doesnt work well with anything

[03:30:56]

[R]:

no, its so debugging

[03:31:05]

[R]:

i ws using virtualbox to pxe test it

[03:31:16]

[R]:

but the server was set to the wrong ip addrses, so i ahd to hardcode the correct one

[03:31:23]

FLeiXiuS`:

wagnerrp, it works...just not the 'myth' way

[03:31:30]

[R]:

what is cmyth?

[03:31:36]

[R]:

is it mythtv written in C?

[03:31:38]

wagnerrp:

no, it doesnt work the "sane" way

[03:31:57]

[R]:

libcmyth is a library implemented in C that allows you to communicate

[03:31:58]

FLeiXiuS`:

wagnerrp, It works enough for my to integrate xbmc / myth into a full media suite.

[03:31:58]

[R]:

with a MythTV backend.

[03:31:58]

[R]:

haha

[03:32:10]

wagnerrp:

cmyth is one of those libraries that arbitrarily parrots back the protocol version the backend reports in order to force a connection

[03:32:13]

[R]:

"The build is controlled with scons"

[03:32:14]

[R]:

EVEN BETTER

[03:32:22]

FLeiXiuS`:

LOL

[03:32:31]

[R]:

wagnerrp: how does that work with the token thing you added?

[03:32:34]

wagnerrp:

regardless of whether it actually understands how to speak that version or not

[03:32:38]

wagnerrp:

[R]: it doesnt

[03:32:40]

[R]:

lol

[03:32:55]

wagnerrp:

at the very least, they need a lookup table somewhere

[03:33:02]

FLeiXiuS`:

Its pretty much neglects the myth protocol and does its own thing.

[03:33:09]

[R]:

yeah, that sounds safe

[03:33:12]

FLeiXiuS`:

Hopefully now with the restful api, that'll change.

[03:33:26]

wagnerrp:

FLeiXiuS`: and when all it does is communicate with myth over the mythprotocol, wheres the sense in that?

[03:33:53]

FLeiXiuS`:

wagnerrp, that's because myth was a pita to integrate with ;-)

[03:34:03]

[R]:

lol

[03:34:07]

** FLeiXiuS` ducks. **

[03:34:09]

FLeiXiuS`:

;-)

[03:34:28]

FLeiXiuS`:

I shouldnt shake the lions den.

[03:34:30]

[R]:

all the clients that myth comes with seem to use the protocol just fine...

[03:35:02]

wagnerrp:

FLeiXiuS`: ive got no problem with something wanting to communicate with multiple versions of the protocol

[03:35:19]

wagnerrp:

i just have problem with something wanting to communicate with a version of the protocol they dont understand

[03:35:33]

FLeiXiuS`:

I dont disagree.

[03:35:41]

wagnerrp:

its like an englishman trying to talk german

[03:35:44]

FLeiXiuS`:

It's poor development on their part – but it *works*

[03:35:52]

FLeiXiuS`:

I should also add *sometimes*

[03:35:55]

wagnerrp:

all the letters are the same, as are most of the sounds

[03:36:01]

wagnerrp:

but something is lost in the meaning

[03:36:04]

FLeiXiuS`:

With specific criteria met.

[03:36:16]

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[03:37:45]

motherbrain:

I am curious what you guys think is the best free TV internet sites out there? Like does anybody like hulu , or other sites

[03:38:37]

[R]:

i like my tv tuner...

[03:38:44]

[R]:

thats the ponit of myth

[03:38:55]

FLeiXiuS`:

lol

[03:39:03]

[R]:

its a DVRT

[03:39:04]

[R]:

DVR*

[03:39:06]

[R]:

not a DVP

[03:39:09]

FLeiXiuS`:

myth + orb = livetv streaming

[03:39:11]

FLeiXiuS`:

cant complain.

[03:40:42]

motherbrain:

Hulu Amazon Instant Video Netflix Veoh Clicker Xfinity AOL Babelgum Comedy Central Joost

[03:40:55]

Beirdo:

[R]: I know that, I mean what there is available out there that use it

[03:41:23]

[R]:

Beirdo: you mean a tangible product that uses it?

[03:41:36]

Beirdo:

like sensors and stuff

[03:41:39]

[R]:

ah, no clue

[03:42:02]

FLeiXiuS`:

I always loved sidereel.

[03:42:18]

FLeiXiuS`:

Although they sometimes *mostly* offer illegal means of watching tv

[03:42:26]

motherbrain:

Ok so this is some what off topic but I have a TV tuner but I have to have TV services and currently because of financial problems I had to turn off my TV services. So I was looking for internet TV free alternative to some extent

[03:42:28]

FLeiXiuS`:

But they do have legit links as well.

[03:42:49]

motherbrain:

ANd was wondering what sites where better then others interms of Hulu Amazon Instant Video Netflix Veoh Clicker Xfinity AOL Babelgum Comedy Central Joost

[03:44:09]

wagnerrp:

well at least hulu, amazon, netflix, and xfinity are not free

[03:44:23]

wagnerrp:

not sure of the others

[03:45:11]

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[03:45:58]

motherbrain:

I thought hulu was free for nbc ,ABC

[03:45:58]

motherbrain:

[03:45:59]

motherbrain:

CBS

[03:45:59]

motherbrain:

[03:45:59]

motherbrain:

NBC

[03:45:59]

motherbrain:

[03:46:01]

motherbrain:

FOX ,...etc standard channels

[03:46:14]

[R]:

wow, was the blank lines really necessary?

[03:46:14]

wagnerrp:

hulu is free for some content

[03:46:18]

FLeiXiuS`:

Some of their content is free.

[03:46:23]

FLeiXiuS`:

LOL

[03:46:28]

wagnerrp:

most of their content requires a subscription

[03:46:31]

motherbrain:

I am watching one right now http://www.hulu.com/watch/355102/30-rock-live . . . h-west-coast

[03:46:53]

[R]:

if you want to watch those channels

[03:46:55]

[R]:

just get an antenna

[03:46:56]

FLeiXiuS`:

[R], carriage returns are the new thing of 2012

[03:47:29]

wagnerrp:

FLeiXiuS`: i thought 2012 was about absurd plots and bad character development

[03:47:30]

FLeiXiuS`:

damn you precise for including 0.25 by default.

[03:47:42]

FLeiXiuS`:

wagnerrp, that was ever since 24 started.

[03:47:57]

motherbrain:

In windows media center I can what all my stations I generally watch anyways I think ... i.e family guy , 2 and half men , good wife , ....etc

[03:47:59]

FLeiXiuS`:

by 24 I mean the TV show – not myth (that can get confusing)

[03:48:02]

motherbrain:

house

[03:48:15]

motherbrain:

what = watch

[03:48:18]

FLeiXiuS`:

motherbrain, just go buy a cable subscription like a real man.

[03:48:23]

FLeiXiuS`:

Or – pay for hulu/netflix.

[03:48:55]

[R]:

or get an antenna

[03:49:02]

FLeiXiuS`:

^ thats even cheaper.

[03:49:02]

motherbrain:

cann't afford it right to the moment with other bills needed to be paid

[03:50:12]

wagnerrp:

motherbrain: if you already have a tuner card, an antenna hooked up to it, and are recording content through it with windows MCE, why cant you continue doing so?

[03:50:29]

wagnerrp:

broadcast television is free, and you dont seem to be watching anything other than that

[03:50:34]

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[03:50:42]

wagnerrp:

why bother with on-demand internet content?

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[03:51:48]

motherbrain:

I can the question is can I get more show then using that method with internet sites like HULU or useing internet TV other sites or useing windows media center internet TV...looks like you can at first glimpse?

[03:52:02]

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[03:52:54]

motherbrain:

So if that is the case there would be no point in using my TV tuner in the first place

[03:53:12]

motherbrain:

with an antenna

[03:53:34]

wagnerrp:

nothing you get for free will be anywhere near the quality or convenience of what you record with an antenna

[03:54:40]

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[03:56:35]

motherbrain:

I disagree to some extent since I can watch MacGuyver thru internet TV/media center for free and with HD quality I don't think you can do that with free TV service thru the air

[03:56:53]

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[03:57:56]

wagnerrp:

again, some content can be found for free through services like hulu

[03:58:18]

wagnerrp:

most television series still on the air are only available for a couple weeks

[03:58:50]

wagnerrp:

and your concept of "HD quality" is pretty low if you think old macguyver episodes qualify

[03:59:52]

motherbrain:

but my main question is what cann't and if there is any major differents normally if I just what comdy family guy , mike and moley ,..etc and news

[04:00:27]

motherbrain:

" and your concept of "HD quality" is pretty low if you think old macguyver episodes qualify" I know and I really don't care I can live with standard def

[04:01:33]

motherbrain:

differents = differences

[04:01:43]

motherbrain:

what = watch

[04:03:46]

wagnerrp:

the point is, for anything still on the air, and especially for things on broadcast television, stick with a tuner card and DVR software

[04:04:06]

wagnerrp:

for things that are no longer on the air, theres not really anything to argue over

[04:04:24]

wagnerrp:

since its either chance finds on what is freely available on demand over the internet, or buying the DVDs

[04:04:46]

[R]:

i miss RDA

[04:05:12]

motherbrain:

Ok but I thought hulu allowed you to watch current broadcasted channels that you get thru a comcast or TV tuner card

[04:05:31]

motherbrain:

as well as old stuff

[04:05:40]

wagnerrp:

motherbrain: only what the content owners allow

[04:06:06]

wagnerrp:

most networks only allow their content on hulu for a brief period of time

[04:06:17]

motherbrain:

so then who ones the content comcast TV service or hulu

[04:06:20]

wagnerrp:

and old content, its hit or miss

[04:06:30]

motherbrain:

ones = owns

[04:06:37]

wagnerrp:

neither

[04:06:49]

wagnerrp:

the broadcast and cable networks do

[04:07:01]

motherbrain:

so then why does one get to broadcast it where as another doesn't

[04:07:25]

wagnerrp:

huh?

[04:08:02]

motherbrain:

For example comcast broadcasts say family guy and simpsons and hulu only provides you to watch the simpsons.

[04:08:13]

motherbrain:

say

[04:09:18]

wagnerrp:

because fox decided comcast was allowed to stream the content to its subscribers through xfinity, but that it did not want the content on hulu

[04:09:19]

motherbrain:

what is stopping somebody from becoming a hulu like service provider by recording the TV stations, transcoding them into mpeg or swf and hosting them

[04:09:30]

wagnerrp:

copyrights

[04:09:41]

wagnerrp:

you cant rebroadcast what you recor

[04:09:42]

wagnerrp:

d

[04:09:54]

motherbrain:

physically I can ;)

[04:09:55]

wagnerrp:

you need to have the expressed permission of the copyright owner

[04:10:14]

motherbrain:

not saying I would

[04:11:32]

motherbrain:

Ok so then why can a site like hulu host family guy for free or a very low price and comcast you have to pay a fortune or a bundle package to do the equivalent. Does the owners not set a standard price for a particular show

[04:11:47]

wagnerrp:

no, they dont

[04:12:11]

wagnerrp:

each individual contract negotiation is completely different

[04:12:29]

[R]:

plus you dont pay for the shows on comcast

[04:12:33]

motherbrain:

Then what is the price of the packages / bundles or other TV show services based on

[04:12:33]

[R]:

you pay for the cnannels

[04:13:12]

[R]:

wagnerrp: someone emailed -users from a month in the future

[04:13:22]

wagnerrp:

a big price of comcast is things like espn and disney, which charge you an a**load

[04:13:31]

motherbrain:

Ok so if I pay for the channels I want only one channel maybe 2 with the ability to choose any shows I want to watch

[04:13:34]

wagnerrp:

a bigger price of comcast is maintenance on the network

[04:14:24]

motherbrain:

on that one channel .. I don't technically need tons of channels to watch tons of shows

[04:15:03]

wagnerrp:

most of those tons of channels you get are either free, or cost you fractions of a penny per month

[04:15:22]

motherbrain:

seems like I am paying for alot of wasted channels when I should be paying for one channel and the shows I want to watch

[04:16:28]

motherbrain:

"most of those tons of channels you get are either free, or cost you fractions of a penny per month" The why is my bill for Comcast TV break down around $65 on the breakdown of services TV , internet , voip

[04:16:43]

motherbrain:

The = then

[04:17:06]

wagnerrp:

because those copper lines strung along the poles, and the equipment on either end, is very expensive to maintain

[04:17:28]

wagnerrp:

as is all that internet bandwidth, and the telephone system uplinks

[04:17:45]

[R]:

and the fact that epsn costs like 100x more then most channels

[04:17:53]

wagnerrp:

the major networks are likely free

[04:18:01]

motherbrain:

really after they are all set up and provided no weather damages what needs to really be done on a regular bases?

[04:18:13]

wagnerrp:

stuff like tbs, tnt, usa, probably cost a few cents, maybe a few tens of cents

[04:18:43]

wagnerrp:

disney might be a dollar, espn is several dollars

[04:18:43]

[R]:

http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/files/2010/03/cable-sub-fees.png

[04:18:50]

[R]:

ESPN $4

[04:18:54]

wagnerrp:

premiums, the individual subscriber eats the cost of those

[04:19:13]

wagnerrp:

wow, that much for tnt?

[04:19:18]

wagnerrp:

i figured it would be much lower

[04:19:24]

[R]:

they play lots of movies

[04:19:55]

motherbrain:

ok so if I add up all those fees on that link I am going to come out with around $65?

[04:20:30]

[R]:

no

[04:20:43]

[R]:

they woudn't be makkign a profit if that was the cawse

[04:20:49]

wagnerrp:

the cable company isnt going to provide you those services at cost

[04:20:53]

[R]:

they are a business... and businesses have to make money

[04:21:30]

wagnerrp:

they need to pay their employees, pay their stock holders, pay for network improvements to remain competitive in the market, hold some in reserve for whatever

[04:22:20]

wagnerrp:

they also have to pay for the person who eats up half a TB/mo torrenting, or a couple hundred GB on netflix

[04:22:21]

motherbrain:

I understand the owners can effect the prices on comcast by jacking there prices but assuming there prices are a few cents minus a handful of $1 to $4 ones I still am not seeing how $65 month is reasonable price for a TV service provider

[04:22:35]

wagnerrp:

what you pay for internet likely only pays for about 50GB/mo

[04:22:40]

wagnerrp:

beyond which, theyre losing money

[04:23:16]

wagnerrp:

so when they have a bunch of users running well over that, everyone's rates increase to subsidize those costs

[04:24:05]

motherbrain:

not talking about internet or voip just TV so most of your stuff above is not applicable

[04:25:09]

wagnerrp:

well you are at least talking about internet, because you want to replace cable with internet content

[04:25:55]

FLeiXiuS`:

Wow this is still going on.

[04:26:30]

motherbrain:

ya, but my internet is not that expensive I can cut my bill in half just by using the internet for everything

[04:26:58]

FLeiXiuS`:

motherbrain, I bet you have a smartphone as well.

[04:27:08]

motherbrain:

And also http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/files/2010/03/cable-sub-fees.png Are those the costs that the owners set for all the TV providers

[04:27:34]

lwizardl:

question can you setup a mythtv FE/BE system to not have a tv station feed? Basically only recording from say composite sources like a vcr, game system, camcorder, etc etc etc

[04:27:38]

wagnerrp:

thats what those cable networks charge per-customer for access to their satellite feeds

[04:27:41]

motherbrain:

Yes I do but I don't use it very much so I don't have service on it just use free skype

[04:28:02]

wagnerrp:

lwizardl: you could, but i dont know why you would want to

[04:28:14]

wagnerrp:

lot of hassle shoehorning mythtv into an application it was not designed for

[04:28:55]

lwizardl:

wagnerrp, well I have a spare box that I was going to use for transfering old family videos to digital. and wanted to basically have it be dedicated for that

[04:29:08]

lwizardl:

I plan to use an old PVR-150 card for it

[04:29:45]

motherbrain:

"thats what those cable networks charge per-customer for access to their satellite feeds" So does that mean disney channel is $.88 for all the comcast/TV providers satellite feeds

[04:30:25]

motherbrain:

or are these prices for a particular TV provider

[04:30:42]

wagnerrp:

lwizardl: 'cat' does just as well as mythtv for that purpose

[04:31:08]

lwizardl:

cat ?

[04:31:23]

wagnerrp:

motherbrain: that means disney charges comcast $0.88 for each and every subscriber on their system

[04:31:39]

wagnerrp:

lwizardl: one of those basic command line utilities included on every POSIX system since the 70s?

[04:31:55]

lwizardl:

ah ok

[04:32:03]

wagnerrp:

the device node directly outputs MPEG2 video

[04:32:12]

lwizardl:

i thought it was another dvr package lol

[04:32:21]

wagnerrp:

"cat /dev/video0 > somefile.mpg" dumps it to the filesystem

[04:32:32]

motherbrain:

And would that mean that if another TV provider like charter would be in the same situation $.88 per customer?

[04:32:53]

wagnerrp:

use v4l2_ctl to manipulate the inputs and compressor settings

[04:33:19]

wagnerrp:

motherbrain: a larger provider is likely going to be able to negotiate cheaper per-customer rates

[04:33:19]

lwizardl:

ok thanks :)

[04:33:41]

wagnerrp:

just run 'cat' to start the capture, and ctrl+c to terminate

[04:33:42]

motherbrain:

Ok like buying in bulk

[04:34:20]

wagnerrp:

several years ago, there was actually someone up in canada running a local cable system with mythtv as the backbone

[04:34:35]

wagnerrp:

major networks dont even talk to you until you get up into the several hundred user range

[04:34:46]

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[04:35:06]

wagnerrp:

and then you need some expensive satellite equipment and decryption hardware to receive those feeds

[04:35:41]

motherbrain:

so the normal price is $.88 for every provider but the large ones may get a discount because they host many customers ...so a large profit....etc economics stuff. Correct me if I am wrong but smaller providers would be stuck with the higher rates of $.88 per customer and no negotiation leverage

[04:36:00]

wagnerrp:

depending on your size, you may have multiple downlinks in different areas, or you may run fiber optic distribution lines to different headends

[04:36:27]

wagnerrp:

$0.88/customer/month is probably the standard for large carriers like time warner, comcast, and verizon

[04:36:35]

wagnerrp:

smaller carriers would be higher than that

[04:37:35]

motherbrain:

ok so there is a lot of other factors to contend with and in some cases a smaller company with more skilled employees and more different location sites could win out on bigger ones in certain areas

[04:38:23]

motherbrain:

so they still may have negotiation leverage even if they are small

[04:39:19]

Beirdo:

Oh #$%@#$%@#$

[04:39:22]

Beirdo:

so...

[04:39:31]

Beirdo:

for SchedulesDirect...

[04:39:42]

Beirdo:

if your username is of the form of an email...

[04:39:51]

Beirdo:

and you are using Qt 4.7...

[04:39:54]

Beirdo:

it won't work

[04:40:13]

Beirdo:

they stupidly split the username into user @ realm

[04:43:03]

dekarl1 is now known as dkearl

[04:43:40]

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[04:44:17]

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[04:44:23]

[R]:

lol

[04:44:44]

[R]:

Beirdo: this is because myth doesnt use wget anymore?

[04:44:56]

wagnerrp:

yep

[04:45:26]

Beirdo:

no, this is because Qt has a stupid bug :)

[04:45:33]

[R]:

lol

[04:45:34]

motherbrain:

Curious is there away to go straight to the owners of the shows and get a provider and them to work with you so you can just pay the subscriber fees and maintenance fees for the channels you want? Seems like I am wasting most of my money on channels that come with my bundle that I will never use

[04:45:38]

Beirdo:

which we are seeing because we don't use wget

[04:45:45]

wagnerrp:

well its only a problem now because we moved to internal download

[04:46:02]

[R]:

motherbrain: its called alacarte cable... and its never going to happen

[04:46:23]

Beirdo:

oh, and gitorious... SUCKS worse than github

[04:46:46]

wagnerrp:

motherbrain: sure. note that you need to buy blocks of subscriptions in the hundreds or more

[04:48:50]

** wagnerrp needs to stop screwing around and see if he can get the hardware profiler changes running **

[04:48:55]

motherbrain:

it just seems pointless to make people pay for something they don't care about/don't want just to get the things/station/shows they want? Why not instead of having all these different plans have a plan that lets people choose the shows/stations they want (at least the stations) and base there bill on that

[04:49:46]

[R]:

wagnerrp: STOP SCREWIN AROUND </southpark shop teacher>

[04:50:09]

[R]:

motherbrain: never... going... to... happen

[04:50:13]

wagnerrp:

motherbrain: because you would stop paying for channels you dont watch but other do, and others would stop paying for channels they dont watch but you do

[04:50:29]

wagnerrp:

end result, those prices skyrocket, and youre still paying the same amount you did before

[04:50:32]

[R]:

oh fancy..

[04:50:36]

[R]:

http://www.howcableshouldbe.com/

[04:50:39]

[R]:

that says ESPN is 3.80

[04:50:43]

Beirdo:

sooo.

[04:51:06]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: if someone complains about it, the first step to fix it... upgrade to Qt 4.8

[04:51:07]

wagnerrp:

but with a whole lot more bureaucratic overhead to manage all those independent lineups

[04:51:13]

motherbrain:

I know most peoples bills would drop like flys and then it puts more burden the owners of the show to perform more quality shows

[04:51:44]

wagnerrp:

motherbrain: no, they wouldnt

[04:51:44]

Beirdo:

or change your SD username to not include an @

[04:51:58]

FLeiXiuS`:

motherbrain, thats so far from reality.

[04:52:07]

wagnerrp:

it costs a certain amount of money to produce those networks

[04:52:23]

wagnerrp:

and as subscribers drop because people are selecting not to pay for those networks

[04:52:31]

wagnerrp:

the price per subscriber goes up to match

[04:53:10]

wagnerrp:

lets say you watch scifi, but only 10% of your fell cable subscribers do

[04:53:20]

wagnerrp:

suddenly you now have to pay $2.10/mo for that one channel

[04:53:21]

motherbrain:

Since if nobody wanted some stupid show or channel that hosted crap then comcast or providers could just say we are not broadcasting your shit so your not getting are money and because are customers are not paying enough for that channel or show

[04:53:38]

wagnerrp:

so even though you dropped a dozen other channels, youre still paying the same price

[04:54:54]

wagnerrp:

something like 30% of cable subscribers watch ESPN

[04:54:58]

motherbrain:

Ok then what I don't get is comcast / TV providers paying to broadcast the owners like espn shows or is espn like paying the TV providers money to broadcast to customers ?

[04:55:11]

wagnerrp:

so you drop that, and suddenly people who actually do watch it are paying $12-$13/mo

[04:55:45]

wagnerrp:

comcast wants to provide that content to the customers

[04:55:57]

wagnerrp:

and a sufficient number of their customers want that content and are willing to pay for it

[04:56:11]

motherbrain:

since it goes both ways comcast is providing a service to the owners by broadcasting to the TV customers the owners shows

[04:56:55]

wagnerrp:

the content espn provides is perceived to be more valuable to comcast than comcast's user base is for boosting advertising numbers

[04:56:56]

dkearl:

motherbrain: wagnerrp: if you want to setup your own tv network you could talk to the mumudvb people, some of them seem to buy channels in >100 users amounts ^^ (I'm hinting at them a lot lately)

[04:57:00]

wagnerrp:

hence, comcast pays

[04:57:24]

wagnerrp:

you are indeed

[04:57:32]

motherbrain:

And the they are also providing a service to the there TV customers.

[04:57:40]

dkearl is now known as dekarl

[04:57:48]

wagnerrp:

heh, was just about to mention that

[04:58:04]

wagnerrp:

'why is dek<tab> not showing anything up in autocomplete?'

[04:58:49]

motherbrain:

Ok, so does the owners make a profit off of the comcast/tv providers or is it the other way around

[04:58:58]

[R]:

everyonemakes money

[04:59:23]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: OK, make that fixed for 4.7.2

[04:59:29]

motherbrain:

except the customers ;) they get screwed

[04:59:31]

Beirdo:

https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-15070

[04:59:37]

wagnerrp:

motherbrain: if comcast thought they were sufficiently valuable to ESPN to negotiate a reduced price, they would have done so long ago

[05:00:27]

wagnerrp:

trust that capitalism produces aggressive money-seeking companies, who actually know what theyre doing in producing the highest revenue at the lowest cost

[05:00:53]

** dekarl got a new cape of invisibility for the IRC client ^^ **

[05:01:09]

wagnerrp:

i cant see it

[05:01:22]

FLeiXiuS`:

dekarl, autocompletes fine here ;-)

[05:01:26]

FLeiXiuS`:

Not so invisible.

[05:01:37]

dekarl:

FLeiXiuS`: now it does... -^

[05:01:39]

wagnerrp:

yes, because he fixed his name

[05:01:48]

wagnerrp:

see the name change about 5 minutes back?

[05:01:57]

motherbrain:

Ok the other thing is if one wanted to have his own hulu site. One could talk to the owners and if they got there permission they could just record the TV shows that comcast broadcasts that they own and host them on there site for free. Provided they pay the owners a fee negotiated with them. Correct ?

[05:02:04]

FLeiXiuS`:

ah!

[05:02:09]

dekarl:

there is a very interesting concecpt wrt cable fees => willingness to pay

[05:02:13]

FLeiXiuS`:

"I SEE" said the blind man.

[05:03:17]

wagnerrp:

if the were going to record and retransmit comcast's feeds, they would also have to pay comcast

[05:03:34]

wagnerrp:

better to just hit the satellite uplinks directly

[05:03:45]

wagnerrp:

or downlinks, rather

[05:03:58]

dekarl:

the good companies will professionally skim that willingness to pay by raising their prices as high as they can before to many people look for alternatives

[05:05:00]

motherbrain:

Not necessarily you could use a friends TV that he allows you to record the owners stations you want for free at his house

[05:05:22]

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[05:05:25]

motherbrain:

so you won't have to pay comcast

[05:05:27]

FLeiXiuS`:

motherbrain, I'm pretty sure that violates ToS

[05:05:30]

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[05:05:37]

dekarl:

motherbrain: you are not going to start a company based on your friends tv, right?

[05:05:46]

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[05:05:51]

wagnerrp:

your contract with comcast dictates that you are only using it for your household

[05:06:05]

wagnerrp:

they do not allow shared internet or cable connections

[05:06:23]

wagnerrp:

and doing so is grounds for termination of service if they discover you

[05:06:45]

motherbrain:

How if you got permission / paid the owner for recording there shows. And your friend was willing to allow you to record from his tv at his place anytime you want then this is not breaking any terms in theory?

[05:07:05]

dekarl:

usually you would go to the channels that produce the shows and get the masters from them and then run that through your content aquisition and preparation pipeline

[05:07:17]

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[05:07:18]

Beirdo:

motherbrain: you will never get that permission

[05:07:25]

dekarl:

motherbrain: the "owner" and "comcast" are different entities, correct?

[05:07:39]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: sure you will, but theyll charge you a crapload for it

[05:07:58]

wagnerrp:

like the several hundred $/mo "business grade" phone lines

[05:08:03]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: in most cases, you never will, because they don't care to talk to individuals

[05:08:17]

FLeiXiuS`:

It's easier for me to get a cable card + service then to deal with cable company bureaucracy.

[05:08:22]

wagnerrp:

like people who were using a secondary phone line for always-on dialup

[05:08:41]

motherbrain:

Ok so then maybe the friends TV thought was not even an issue if somebody just made an agreement with the owner/paid the owner and got the master copy / was allowed to go completely thru them.

[05:08:58]

Beirdo:

just like you can't buy most chemicals as an individual

[05:10:19]

motherbrain:

thought you could for the most part thats how schools and chem labs get there stuff as well as chemical people/engineers that have there own private lab

[05:10:57]

FLeiXiuS`:

lol

[05:11:05]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: no, but its pretty simple to audit a course for a semester at a local univ, and get tight with the manager of the engineering test lab

[05:11:27]

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[05:11:37]

wagnerrp:

the ones that when they throw the book at someone, theyre using a mcmaster or digikey catalog

[05:11:59]

wagnerrp:

and no one would bat an eye at if the bought decent quantities of rocket fuel

[05:12:40]

wagnerrp:

erm.... ignore that one

[05:12:47]

wagnerrp:

no one is hiding quantities of APC

[05:12:49]

Beirdo:

hahaha

[05:13:13]

Beirdo:

not the chemicals to which I refer.

[05:13:22]

Beirdo:

things like lye...

[05:13:49]

Beirdo:

and you HAVE to be a company to buy lye in any significant quantity...

[05:13:54]

wagnerrp:

what are you going to do with that? make soap?

[05:14:00]

Beirdo:

they won't sell it otherwise

[05:14:02]

motherbrain:

Ok, correct me if I am wrong a TV tuner card only works if you have a comcast/tv provider or you choose to just use the free air owns if you get them

[05:14:07]

Beirdo:

yes, that and papermaking

[05:14:36]

** wagnerrp would stick to APC **

[05:14:40]

motherbrain:

So then who owns the cable lines on the telephone poles

[05:15:03]

Beirdo:

motherbrain: whatever company strung them. Likely Comcast

[05:15:59]

Beirdo:

anyways... we, the individuals... get hosed.

[05:16:06]

Beirdo:

welcome to capitalism ;)

[05:17:01]

motherbrain:

Since by me I can only choose from verison , comcast but there are some places that are just crocker or charter.... Does that mean the location your in defines what provider you can use... so if I found a provider in another town or city near by that charges alot less I would be fixed in using comcast or verison only

[05:17:30]

Beirdo:

that's exactly what it means

[05:19:19]

dekarl:

and thats exactly why everybody over here is talking about cable cartels

[05:20:21]

motherbrain:

So I am correct when I look up at the cable lines on the telephone pole to say these lines must have been strung by comcast or verison. And not somebody else i.e it is the tv/cable providers responsibility to string the cables on the tele poles and under the grounds to the houses and head ends ,...etc

[05:20:44]

wagnerrp:

correct

[05:21:12]

wagnerrp:

and any time they do, they need to negotiate with the local municipality for the right to do so

[05:22:06]

FLeiXiuS`:

[R], finally got my frontend setup without nbd. Suspend works flawlessly.

[05:22:16]

wagnerrp:

ideally, the municipality is supposed to coordinate things so cable, phone, water, and utility companies all try to do things at roughly the same time, so you dont have disruption of traffic

[05:22:18]

motherbrain:

So I have heard that you can choose what electric company provider to use. Is it different for these wires on the pole or do WMECO string these if I am get service/paying bills to WMECO

[05:22:32]

wagnerrp:

of course around here, they all take turns tearing up and resurfacing the roads every 2–3 years

[05:22:49]

FLeiXiuS`:

Inevitably, they all use the same power sources. Your just paying for overhead charges.

[05:23:00]

FLeiXiuS`:

(most of the time)

[05:23:08]

Beirdo:

electricity sources have nothing to do with cable companies or phone companies.

[05:23:15]

Beirdo:

the rules aren't the same

[05:23:41]

[R]:

FLeiXiuS`: nice

[05:23:48]

[R]:

FLeiXiuS`: so i take it your backend never shuts?

[05:24:18]

FLeiXiuS`:

[R], Correct. I have my backend on an ESXi server with a jbod passthru for zfs.

[05:24:20]

motherbrain:

so who is responsible for string the electrical wires on the tele pole / thru the ground

[05:24:26]

[R]:

yeah, my backend shuts when its idle

[05:24:32]

[R]:

so that made suspend... um, interesting

[05:24:38]

wagnerrp:

FLeiXiuS`: why nbd?

[05:24:51]

Beirdo:

motherbrain: not you, and that's all that counts :) What does this have ANYTHING to do with MythTV?

[05:24:59]

FLeiXiuS`:

wagnerrp, I'm using NFS rather nbd.

[05:25:19]

FLeiXiuS`:

I had troubles getting suspend working while the fs was mounted via nbd

[05:25:29]

wagnerrp:

ah

[05:26:00]

[R]:

wagnerrp: ist a known issue with nbd and suspend

[05:31:00]

motherbrain:

ok one last question I know from above who is responsible for string cable lines on the tele poles, I don't really care to much for who is responsible for the electric cables, but for the telephone line (which are the landline/dsl stuff) is that ATNET or is that a local company or verision or some other POTS. Basically does the phone lines on the tele pole work the same way as the cable lines on the tele pole in terms of who i

[05:31:00]

motherbrain:

s responsible to string/run them/support them. And if it is tha would mean you are locked in to useing only local companies in your area (provided you are not using wireless/mobile phone)

[05:31:25]

Beirdo:

HUH?

[05:31:55]

FLeiXiuS`:

Your only capable of using what is provided over those lines.

[05:32:01]

Beirdo:

what are we, an encyclopedia of laws? :)

[05:32:16]

Beirdo:

the phone lines are owned by the phone company

[05:32:36]

Beirdo:

and yes you are limited to using services that are actually connected to your home

[05:32:50]

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[05:33:26]

Beirdo:

I can't see how it could work any other way

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[06:04:07]

[R]:

wagnerrp: you there?

[06:05:56]

wagnerrp:

yes

[06:08:39]

[R]:

i can't figure out how to make myth download the artwork for this show

[06:08:41]

[R]:

it has the inetref

[06:08:42]

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[06:08:50]

[R]:

and if i run the python thign manually, i clearly see images

[06:09:07]

FLeiXiuS`:

artwork..meh i have yet to get artwork going

[06:09:30]

wagnerrp:

[R]: did you tell mythtv to run the daily artwork scan?

[06:09:45]

wagnerrp:

metadata gets downloaded immediately

[06:09:50]

wagnerrp:

artwork gets downloaded once per day

[06:10:11]

[R]:

hrm

[06:10:13]

[R]:

how do i force it though

[06:10:39]

wagnerrp:

run mythmetadatalookup?

[06:11:05]

[R]:

i tried that

[06:11:09]

[R]:

it downlaoded a bunch of stuff

[06:11:12]

[R]:

but not for this program

[06:11:46]

wagnerrp:

what options did you use?

[06:11:56]

[R]:

i tried every refrehs option

[06:11:59]

[R]:

and i tried the chanid/startimte

[06:13:24]

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[06:14:30]

[R]:

wtf, i even tried editing it from the frontend and manually seelecting stuff, and it still doesnt want to shwo it

[06:14:49]

Beirdo:

!trout [R] language

[06:14:49]

** MythLogBot slaps [R] with a language trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[06:15:07]

wagnerrp:

?

[06:15:13]

Beirdo:

? what?

[06:15:21]

wagnerrp:

'f'?

[06:16:16]

Beirdo:

just abbreviating does not change the fact that it's unapproved language for the channel

[06:17:04]

Beirdo:

it really isn't hard to moderate one's language :)

[06:18:21]

wagnerrp:

its like bleeping, bleeping makes everything ok!

[06:18:43]

wagnerrp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuOvqeABHvQ#t=1m35s

[06:18:47]

Beirdo:

hehe, bleep that

[06:18:49]

[R]:

i wish mythwebs showed this stuff

[06:19:48]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: after all, its good enough for the family learning channel

[06:20:23]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:22:27]

** wagnerrp needs to find more opportunities to post that video **

[06:24:27]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: what IS that crap?

[06:24:46]

wagnerrp:

amazing

[06:25:34]

Beirdo:

amazingly crappy, yes :)

[06:25:47]

wagnerrp:

blasphemy

[06:27:00]

Beirdo:

that too :)

[06:27:01]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:27:07]

[R]:

they built the subway in ny in 1900

[06:27:12]

[R]:

hwo the hell did they do that back then

[06:27:15]

[R]:

w/o any technology

[06:27:45]

Beirdo:

what makes you think there was no technology in 1900?

[06:27:49]

[R]:

lol

[06:27:52]

Beirdo:

it wasn't the middle ages!

[06:27:55]

[R]:

HAHA

[06:28:02]

wagnerrp:

no, worse... that was like... the stone age

[06:28:40]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[06:28:55]

Beirdo:

GPS board with antenna connector... $49.95

[06:29:08]

Beirdo:

including PPS output

[06:29:12]

[R]:

NMEA serial output?

[06:29:22]

Beirdo:

hmmm, wonder how my ntpd would like it

[06:29:24]

Beirdo:

yeah

[06:29:33]

[R]:

i know this guy at work got some cheap gps puck

[06:29:34]

[R]:

for ntp

[06:34:23]

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[06:54:52]

dekarl:

Beirdo: http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/ <- precision timekeeping ^^

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[07:12:31]

Beirdo:

hehe, I should make my own little stratum one using just the GPS and a DSP

[07:12:47]

Beirdo:

be WAY cheaper than a soekris

[07:13:29]

Beirdo:

anyways, bed beckons

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[08:09:44]

justinh:

bah. I need more practice making packages

[08:10:05]

justinh:

oo, I know. I should look at the mythweb packaging stuff

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lapion:

I've had a crash in the middle of a defrag and now fsck segfaults

[08:43:56]

lapion:

since the contents are not important I could recreate the fs and skip anyh debugging, however it's interesting that the debugger also crashes.

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[10:18:43]

k-man:

does mythtv keep deleted recordings in a special group now?

[10:19:00]

k-man:

or do they get deleted imediately?

[10:19:16]

k-man:

in .25 that is

[10:29:52]

k-man:

anyone had .25 get stuck on the "loading..." diaglog when you go into watch recordings?

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[14:15:43]

dekarl-too:

sphery, the season/episode in xmltv is what the guide provider thinks. the season/episode in recorded is what thetvdb has agreed upon as the one and only true order :-)

[14:16:49]

dekarl-too:

there might be some overlap between both, but more often then not there are more/less subtle differences... so if anyone knows a student to who wants to kick off tvbrainz, that would rock for GSoC 2013 :D

[14:17:06]

sphery:

Wow... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/515678#515678 ... When I wrote about packagers maybe splitting out the Perl bindings and wasting hours of each user's time to try to save a few kB of HDD space, I was actually thinking, "There's no way anyone would do that, so maybe I shouldn't write it." Seems some distro does it...

[14:17:51]

sphery:

dekarl-too: yeah, my message was basically saying that we don't use the season/episode from xmltvid for anything but creation of programid and--at least at this point--it should probably stay that way

[14:18:10]

tgm4883:

I'm trying to hunt down if this is a bug in the http live stream creator or VLC, I'm testing with a m3u8 file that my backend has created and that file looks like http://paste.ubuntu.com/957539/ The issue is VLC tries to play back links like http://backendip:port/Content/<file from m3u8> making two Content links in a row

[14:18:33]

sphery:

tgm4883: btw, Ubuntu doesn't have a separate "mythtv-perl" package, do they?

[14:18:34]

tgm4883:

Looking at a sample m3u8 file from apple, they don't list any directories, just the filename in the m3u8 file

[14:18:40]

tgm4883:

sphery, yes we do

[14:18:44]

tgm4883:

libmyth-perl I think

[14:18:48]

sphery:

is it normally installed?

[14:18:49]

tgm4883:

or libmythtv-perl

[14:18:53]

tgm4883:

should be

[14:18:59]

sphery:

ok...

[14:19:07]

dekarl-too:

sphery: your mail sounded like "we'd like to support copying the episode num from xmltv to the recording but the database is lacking" :)

[14:19:17]

tgm4883:

the sample apple file I'm looking at is http://devimages.apple.com/iphone/samples/bip . . . g_index.m3u8

[14:19:20]

dekarl-too:

but that might just be me not being a native speaker ;)

[14:19:26]

sphery:

someone (on some other distro, it seems--based on package name "mythtv-perl") installed mythtv but didn't have perl bindings, so wasted hours trying to figure out how to get them

[14:19:40]

sphery:

just so some users can save a few kB of HDD space--which, IMHO, is a travesty

[14:19:42]

tgm4883:

so if anyone has any input on that or a whitepaper on http live streaming that might help

[14:21:03]

sphery:

and, sorry--I don't know anything about the HLS

[14:21:16]

tgm4883:

yea it's libmythtv-perl

[14:21:16]

sphery:

(nor about devices/software that can use it)

[14:22:03]

sphery:

tgm4883: though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3U has 3 options for specification

[14:22:18]

sphery:

sounds like we should have no dir unless we include the http://

[14:22:24]

sphery:

(and hostname/port)

[14:22:47]

sphery:

i.e. we're mid-way between "a local pathname relative to the M3U file location" and "a URL"

[14:22:59]

sphery:

(which, technically is a URI, but, hey, it's wikipedia :)

[14:23:10]

tgm4883:

yea

[14:23:26]

tgm4883:

so it's getting confused

[14:23:45]

sphery:

if you modify the m3u and put in http://<backendiporhostname>:<port> at the beginning, does it play?

[14:23:57]

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[14:24:49]

tgm4883:

sphery, I haven't tried yet. I would assume yes since I can construct the full URL .ts filepath and feed it to VLC and it plays fine

[14:24:59]

sphery:

dekarl-too: hehe, yeah, I suppose it does... It was supposed to be, "as the current schema shows, we don't use that info now, but might be able to one day"

[14:25:13]

sphery:

tgm4883: perhaps a ticket?

[14:25:14]

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[14:25:17]

tgm4883:

looking at the VLC log, it's apparent it has an issue with the link and doesn't know what to do with it (the double content)

[14:25:20]

tgm4883:

sphery, yea I'll open one up

[14:25:25]

sphery:

thanks

[14:25:30]

dekarl-too:

oh, you made me look at the apple site and notice that they have a custom ID3 tags in PES Packets format... Why didn't they simply use RDS :(

[14:25:33]

tgm4883:

sphery, it looks like libmythtv-perl might not be installed by default

[14:25:37]

tgm4883:

it might be a suggests

[14:25:48]

tgm4883:

only two things actually depend on it

[14:26:13]

tgm4883:

well, it could be a recommends, but I don't know how to do a reverse search on recommends

[14:27:01]

dekarl-too:

tgm4883: its super useful for debugging channel scan stuff with a simple script to pull relevant DVB/XMLTV IDs from the database

[14:29:05]

sphery:

tgm4883: seems a huge waste to have a package that users can choose to install or not when the end result is it only saves 80kB of HDD space (assuming any sane system will have Perl, anyway)

[14:29:28]

sphery:

even if they don't have Perl, how big is a Perl install, anyway? Maybe a few MB?

[14:29:57]

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[14:30:18]

sphery:

anyway, there may be other considerations/dependecies, but as an outside observer, it seems that the time users spend trying to make perl scripts work is far more valuable than the HDD space

[14:31:33]

sphery:

that said, you guys know the distro/packages/etc much better than I, so consider mine an uneducated opinion and feel free to ignore it :)

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[14:50:41]

tgm4883:

sphery, so it appears it is a recommends of both the backend and frontend package (and mythtv-status)

[14:51:38]

tgm4883:

sphery, since it isn't required, it should be a recommends and not a depends, but recommends is on by default so I'm not sure how they didn't have it installed

[14:51:57]

sphery:

tgm4883: yeah, I think this user was on a different distro

[14:52:05]

sphery:

recommends is probably not bad

[14:52:10]

tgm4883:

ah ok

[14:52:20]

sphery:

I was just wondering if this was common among all distros

[14:52:52]

tgm4883:

sphery, yea it probably is

[14:53:31]

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[15:11:29]

jya:

jasonbassett: open a terminal and do: ls -l /usr/lib/libcrypt*

[15:12:14]

jasonbassett:

Im assuming this is on the mythbackend Gentoo box

[15:12:21]

jya:

no

[15:12:27]

jya:

this is on your mac

[15:12:46]

jasonbassett:

ah

[15:13:12]

jasonbassett:

ok done that

[15:13:46]

jya:

jasonbassett: actually, mythfrontend for 0.25 is compiled to work on 10.5 target, however, those idiotic apple have bumped the libcrypto soname, so you simply need to link the one it expects to the old 10.5 one

[15:13:48]

jya:

and??

[15:14:00]

jya:

duh. what's the result of that command!

[15:14:20]

jasonbassett:

2 lines as follows:

[15:14:47]

jasonbassett:

not letting me paste?!, i need excape chars?

[15:15:13]

sphery:

is http://www.pastebin.com/ easier?

[15:15:38]

jasonbassett:

i always neglect the pastebin....hold a a sec..

[15:15:49]

sphery:

(2 lines or less is fine to paste directly, but, especially for longer pastes, pastebin is desired... but may make it easier to paste with the browser)

[15:16:04]

jasonbassett:

http://pastebin.com/qbajBqxX

[15:16:20]

jya:

I'm guessing you have /usr/lib/libcrypto.0.9.6.dylib

[15:16:55]

jasonbassett:

0.9.7

[15:17:00]

jya:

ok

[15:17:02]

jya:

so do:

[15:17:29]

jasonbassett:

symlink to the expected name?

[15:17:46]

jya:

sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libcrypto.0.9.7.dylib /usr/lib/libcrypto.0.9.8.dylib

[15:18:13]

jya:

as far as I can remember, that's the only lib causing issueâ€¦

[15:18:21]

jya:

last I did this was several months ago...

[15:19:36]

jasonbassett:

no it still says "quit unexpectedly", i will run via the bin in package to get errors displayed...

[15:20:09]

jasonbassett:

eason: Incompatible library version: MythWelcome requires version 0.9.8 or later, but libcrypto.0.9.7.dylib provides version 0.9.7

[15:20:17]

jasonbassett:

^^ terminal reports that

[15:20:42]

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[15:22:51]

jya:

ok

[15:23:02]

jya:

let me upload libcrypto0.9.8 then

[15:24:21]

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[15:25:15]

jya:

http://www.avenard.org/files/mythtv/mac/libcrypto.0.9.8.dylib

[15:25:27]

jya:

delete the symlink you created earlier

[15:25:35]

jya:

and copy that one to /usr/lib

[15:27:36]

jasonbassett:

Fail, "/usr/lib/libcrypto.0.9.8.dylib: unknown required load command 0x80000022"

[15:27:42]

jasonbassett:

"no suitable image found"

[15:28:41]

jya:

oh well, you're screwed then :)

[15:28:54]

jasonbassett:

:-)

[15:28:55]

jya:

you'll have to compile libcrypto 0.9.8 yourself

[15:28:58]

jya:

macport

[15:29:18]

jasonbassett:

wonderful, something new for me to learn, I need to find my MacOS cd's I think

[15:29:25]

jya:

they changed the way they are loading dynamic libraries in 10.6.1

[15:29:40]

jya:

it's quite easy to compily with macport

[15:29:45]

jasonbassett:

Oh well, thanks for your help

[15:30:39]

jya:

do you have xcode installed on your machine ?

[15:31:08]

jya:

compile mythtv on your machine will probably take less time

[15:31:12]

jya:

it's pretty easy these days

[15:31:56]

jasonbassett:

no xcode

[15:32:12]

sphery:

there's also always upgrading to newer mac os x :)

[15:32:30]

sphery:

(spending money instead of time... your choice :)

[15:32:37]

jasonbassett:

Na I'd prefer to learn something :-)

[15:32:44]

sphery:

learning is always good

[15:33:09]

jasonbassett:

I made it through Gentoo so a Mac can't be too bad

[15:33:24]

sphery:

hehe, from complete control to completely controlled :)

[15:34:17]

jasonbassett:

I only got the mac as I was getting more and more people wanting me to configure them and I hadn't used em for a decade so thought better get one to learn it.

[15:34:23]

jasonbassett:

Then realised it was unix

[15:35:22]

jya:

jasonbassett: if you go to mythtv packaging/OSX/build

[15:35:25]

jya:

read the doc

[15:35:46]

jya:

pretty much, all you need to do is get Qt 4.7 lib

[15:35:59]

jya:

and run the perl script as documented

[15:35:59]

jasonbassett:

k

[15:36:12]

jya:

depending on the speed of your machine, you'll get a mythfrontend within the hour

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[15:58:37]

tgm4883:

sphery, http://code.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/GoToDev might need updated. I wasn't sure what HLS fell under

[15:58:49]

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[15:58:53]

tgm4883:

there didn't seem to be anything relevant when filing the bug either

[15:59:04]

sphery:

yeah, we've been talking about that (and the couple other copies in other places) and realize they need some serious updates

[15:59:05]

tgm4883:

so http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10675 is just under mythtv-general

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[15:59:27]

sphery:

general is fine... someone may change it, or add something for hls

[15:59:44]

sphery:

thanks for the report, too--and the debugging/diagnosing

[16:00:06]

tgm4883:

yw

[16:00:18]

tgm4883:

I tried uploading the sample apple file, but it was detected as spam

[16:00:19]

tgm4883:

odd

[16:00:52]

sphery:

hehe, yeah, the spam filter isn't perfect

[16:02:17]

tgm4883:

There is a link to it in the bug report, so i'm not worried

[16:02:43]

sphery:

yeah, should be fine

[16:04:49]

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[16:40:06]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, the current code works fine on iPad, iPod, iPhone, JW Player, and a few other HLS players I've tried. if VLC doesn't work, that seems to be a VLC issue. https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#tech . . . /_index.html says use relative path names where possible, but for us, it's not possible since we have to have something that tells the BE that the URL we're requesting is a file in a storage group.

[16:40:50]

Captain_Murdoch:

tgm4883, ^^

[16:41:19]

wagnerrp:

Captain_Murdoch, tgm4883, sphery: see ticket #10675

[16:41:19]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10675 **

[16:41:49]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, I know, tgm4883 is the submitter I believe, and he referenced talking about it with sphery, that's why I just posted here. :)

[16:42:03]

Captain_Murdoch:

easier than going back and forth in trac.

[16:42:09]

wagnerrp:

fair enough

[16:43:26]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: I have to admit to being completely clueless on m3u, but the wikipedia page made it sound like the file should have a relative link and the client would automatically add the "M3U file location", based on the directory where the m3u file itself was retrieved? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3U

[16:43:54]

sphery:

so, since (I'm presuming) the .m3u file comes from /Content, VLC adds the /Content to the start

[16:44:18]

sphery:

the other option would be to just use the http://<ip>:<port>/ to the start to make it a full URI

[16:44:18]

Captain_Murdoch:

so VLC isn't checking to see if the path is relative or not and it's prepending the path again.

[16:44:28]

sphery:

yeah, sounds like it

[16:44:33]

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[16:44:48]

sphery:

the wikipedia page (and, again, I've never seen the actual spec) says, "a local pathname relative to the M3U file location; e.g. Heavysets.mp3"

[16:45:00]

sphery:

(versus "an absolute local pathname; e.g., C:\My Music\Heavysets.mp3" or "a URL")

[16:46:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

right above that line on the wiki it says the entry can be any of the following: absolute local full path, relative filename, full URL

[16:47:42]

Captain_Murdoch:

s/full url/url/. so client should autodetect. I believe that in my testing, some clients didn't like having the full URL on each line, so I used relative and that's worked in the places I've tested so far. haven't tried VLC yet though.

[16:47:54]

sphery:

yeah, but ours isn't a "local" path name, so absolute isn't allowed?

[16:48:32]

sphery:

i.e. it's on a remote server, so it's assuming a path relative to the m3u path?

[16:48:33]

Captain_Murdoch:

well, it doesn't say it needs a full URL. URL can be http://blah/dir/blah.mpg or /dir/blah.mpg or blah.mpg

[16:49:39]

Captain_Murdoch:

perhaps all URLs must be http:// prefixed, but I thought I had issues with other players with that in them. can't remember if it was iOS or somethign else, it's been a while.

[16:50:57]

sphery:

yeah, I'll defer to your experience/testing results

[16:51:26]

sphery:

might be nice if someone could interface with VLC devs and see how they're interpreting the requirements for the file specification

[16:51:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

and the link on apple's site says use relative. may have to retest with http:// prefixed if some players don't insert the relative path themselves.

[16:51:41]

sphery:

(someone meaning a user who wants it to work--not necessarily you :)

[16:52:12]

Captain_Murdoch:

someone with more time than me currently since I'm currently in between houses.

[16:52:27]

sphery:

ah, though I see wagnerrp found a bug report on VLC's tracker

[16:52:49]

wagnerrp:

s/wagnerrp/iamlindoro/

[16:53:23]

wagnerrp:

s/bug report/fixed bug report/

[16:53:41]

wagnerrp:

i.e. stop arguing, its a non-issue

[16:53:41]

wagnerrp:

:)

[16:54:03]

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[16:54:36]

sphery:

hehe, yeah

[16:54:45]

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[16:54:55]

sphery:

I agree, now--with VLC admitting their code was wrong--that it's resolved appropriately

[16:55:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

works for me. :)

[16:55:10]

sphery:

just hadn't noticed the updates on the ticket, so was only going on what was mentioned in here before

[16:55:29]

jya:

jk90090: so?

[16:55:39]

jk90090:

patching now

[16:55:52]

sphery:

tgm4883: fwiw, http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/4268 , so sounds like you guys need a newer VLC in *buntu (don't know if it's in a released version, but was fixed 3 months ago)

[16:56:20]

jk90090:

compiling

[16:56:31]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, ticket update emails came in way late here, I posted my message here and now see the updates trickled in.

[16:57:06]

sphery:

they may have come in quickly on mine--but they were buried in the 335 unread ticket e-mails in that folder :)

[16:57:08]

Captain_Murdoch:

where way == 7 minutes it appears

[16:57:10]

sphery:

I got way behind with work travel

[16:57:13]

jk90090:

jya: so without the -O now right?

[16:57:19]

jya:

jk90090: yep

[16:57:26]

jya:

I saw the same error you did today

[16:57:30]

jk90090:

K, as soon as the compile is done

[16:57:39]

jya:

with -O BonjourHostname with libavahi

[16:57:48]

jk90090:

jya: well at least that confirms my sanity

[16:57:49]

jya:

you must supply a fully qualified domain name

[16:57:54]

sphery:

er, 355 unread...

[16:58:05]

jya:

like frontend.local would have worked

[16:58:09]

jya:

but not "frontend"

[16:58:13]

sphery:

(but read 29, so far, today, as a result of conversations in IRC :)

[16:58:17]

jya:

funny, cause with my mac it's the other way round

[16:58:17]

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[16:58:29]

jk90090:

jya: I noticed similar trying to do an avahi-resolve

[16:59:07]

jya:

allright, please tell me how it goes, so I can go to bed

[16:59:10]

jya:

3AM here

[16:59:23]

jk90090:

K, still compiling

[17:00:07]

jk90090:

should only be a few more minutes

[17:00:23]

jya:

time make -j8: real 0m36.212s

[17:00:47]

jk90090:

I forgot my -j8 I think ;-)

[17:00:55]

jya:

that was after applying the 3 patches I sent you

[17:01:31]

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[17:02:09]

jk90090:

I yep, totally forgot my multi-proc

[17:02:39]

jya:

brb

[17:08:10]

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[17:17:30]

jk90090:

jya: my frontend is a little slow, but I am compiling with -j options to speed things up a little

[17:17:49]

jk90090:

only a dual core

[17:18:08]

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[17:19:13]

jk90090:

And I accidentally did a make clean before hand out of habitâ€¦ sorry about that

[17:21:24]

jya:

back

[17:21:30]

jk90090:

just finished compile

[17:21:41]

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[17:21:50]

jya:

cool

[17:22:31]

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[17:22:31]

jk90090:

hallualui

[17:22:34]

jk90090:

whatever

[17:22:36]

jk90090:

it works

[17:22:46]

jya:

it does?

[17:22:48]

jya:

excellent

[17:22:49]

jk90090:

iTunes

[17:23:03]

jya:

and with your older, slower wireless router?

[17:23:27]

jk90090:

trying now

[17:24:44]

jk90090:

also perfect

[17:25:00]

jk90090:

still a bit of resends in the log

[17:25:09]

jk90090:

but no audio issues

[17:25:24]

jya:

as long as the resend are properly handled , it doesn't matter

[17:25:41]

jya:

i simulated a 30% packet drop, and audio kept being perfect

[17:26:23]

jk90090:

great

[17:26:28]

jya:

I have some audio buffer underruns on my VM still, (but about half as much as the previous one)

[17:26:42]

jk90090:

yeah, working great

[17:26:52]

jk90090:

didn't need the -O

[17:26:57]

jya:

I found a way to completely remove them, but it turns out to trigger a race conditions after about 8 minutes playback

[17:27:09]

jk90090:

oh that's fun

[17:27:25]

jya:

the core issue with the earlier version, is that all the audio received was queue to the audio card

[17:27:43]

jya:

so the queue of audio packets waiting for retry was almost always empty

[17:27:56]

jya:

so when it receive a retry, it could re-order the packets

[17:28:04]

jya:

(they were all in the audio card already)

[17:28:29]

jya:

so it would play the packets effectively, in the order they were received like: 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 5, 6, 9

[17:28:48]

jk90090:

coulnd't reorder

[17:28:49]

jk90090:

indeed

[17:28:53]

jk90090:

that would be bad

[17:29:09]

jya:

allright, I'm going to pushâ€¦ and will put this on the queue for backport if it works fine for everyone else

[17:29:21]

jya:

actually, that is the version you tried a few days ago

[17:29:29]

jk90090:

great, let me know when it's in the fixes branch

[17:29:34]

jya:

it didn't cut out, and it would only cause a tiny imperfection

[17:29:39]

jk90090:

so I can start pulling again from there

[17:29:40]

jya:

probably many wouldn't even notice :)

[17:30:07]

jk90090:

unless you're in a wireless storm like I have around me

[17:30:32]

jk90090:

I think there are 16 wireless routers on 2.4ghz not to mention all the cordless phones

[17:30:51]

jk90090:

apt livingâ€¦ fun

[17:30:58]

jya:

A/V sync on my main frontend via HDMI is just as good as when using the airport express

[17:31:07]

jya:

do you want to see something interesting ?

[17:31:12]

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[17:31:20]

jya:

do you have a non encrypted video on your iPhone ?

[17:31:24]

jk90090:

yep

[17:31:33]

jya:

ok.. start playback of the vide

[17:31:35]

jya:

video

[17:31:45]

jya:

select the airtunes speaker

[17:31:55]

jya:

so video is on the iphone, and audio is remote

[17:32:01]

jk90090:

yep

[17:32:08]

jya:

no do:

[17:32:24]

jk90090:

I could play one video on my iPhone while air playing a video to myth

[17:32:33]

jya:

pause/play/pause/play/pause/play with about 1–2s between each pause play

[17:32:57]

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[17:33:06]

jya:

jk90090: that's because iOS I found always use IPv4, no matter if IPv6 is available. while iTunes would use ipv6

[17:33:08]

jk90090:

ok, what am I expecting?

[17:33:12]

jya:

after about the 20th pause/play

[17:33:17]

jya:

let it continue

[17:33:26]

jya:

have a look (and a listen)

[17:35:16]

jk90090:

something besides the completely out of sync?

[17:35:25]

jya:

that's exactly that

[17:35:43]

jya:

when you press pause or re-seek in the video

[17:35:50]

jya:

it sends a flush command

[17:36:00]

jk90090:

yeah, in fact, if I send video to myth, I can have the two devices playing in completely different tlocations

[17:36:02]

jya:

after each flush command, audio becomes 50ms faster

[17:36:26]

jk90090:

oh wow, I wasn't noticing that..

[17:36:31]

jya:

I've spend my whole friday and week-end on thisâ€¦ couldn't understand what was going on

[17:36:39]

jya:

so I got myself an Airport Express

[17:36:43]

jya:

and guess what?

[17:36:52]

jk90090:

same?

[17:37:05]

jya:

the bug is there tooâ€¦ what a waste of time that wasâ€¦ I couldn't figure out what I did wrong

[17:37:47]

jya:

iOS when it resumes, instead of sending the video frame timestamp, send an NTP (64 bits) time instead.

[17:37:51]

jya:

iTunes does it properly

[17:37:58]

jya:

lodged a bug with Apple

[17:38:41]

jk90090:

ha

[17:39:24]

jk90090:

definitely hate it when you keep debugging something only to find out it's *expected*

[17:39:36]

jya:

not sure it's expected

[17:39:42]

jya:

and I couldn't test with iTunes

[17:40:00]

jk90090:

expected = it's broken that way

[17:40:01]

jya:

as iTunes won't let you play audio remotely and video local

[17:40:24]

jya:

they only support AirPlay which is an entirely different thing

[17:40:45]

jya:

much easier, it sends the actual video+audio to the device, it's up to the device to decode and do the sync

[17:41:16]

jk90090:

oh neat, I've not made Myth get stuck in a loop on the same buffer section.

[17:41:32]

jk90090:

Stop works though

[17:41:44]

jya:

stop should be pretty instant

[17:41:58]

jya:

resume 2008ms on iTunes, 1750ms on iOS

[17:42:25]

jk90090:

wow

[17:42:51]

jk90090:

anyways, thanks for all the work and persistence on this

[17:43:17]

jya:

yeah, I wanted to get it to workâ€¦ I'm fairly convinced we have the best raop implementation in the free world

[17:43:34]

jya:

the previous code was the only one supporting a/v sync from what I've gathered

[17:43:44]

jya:

xbmc and other projects use libshairport

[17:44:02]

jya:

which just gets audio , queue it, play it.. it never bother looking at the timestamp ever

[17:44:35]

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[17:45:15]

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[17:45:28]

jk90090:

video playback worse on the new wireless, but not consistently on the old

[17:45:30]

jk90090:

fyi

[17:45:45]

jk90090:

works

[17:45:47]

jk90090:

not worse

[17:46:20]

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[17:48:32]

jya:

what do you mean by consistently?

[17:48:56]

jya:

you mean AirPlay bit, or RAOP + video ?

[17:51:32]

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[18:20:33]

Somebeachsomewhe:

Upgraded Mythbuntu from 11.10 to 12.04 x64 (both versions) after doing a full backup of 11.10. I have ACPI shutdown/wakeup working with Mythwelcome. Now in 12.04 the countdown timer only changes every 60 seconds. It used to be every 10 seconds. For example I had the shutdown set to start in 900 seconds. It would countdown to 890, 880, 870 seconds etc. Now it changes from 900 to 840 to 780 etc. I liked it better before with a 10 second duration

[18:23:09]

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[18:24:51]

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[18:25:08]

henkie-:

Hi since mythtv 0.25 I am unable to switch channels during live-tv (it just freezes and reports an error). Also mythbackend becomes unresponsive, and doesnt end recordings anymore (resulting in 10+ hours recordings :) )

[18:25:35]

henkie-:

using a gentoo-ebuild from mythtv (0.25_rc20120428)

[18:25:42]

henkie-:

any suggestions?

[18:26:37]

henkie-:

all the recording are IPTV

[18:27:28]

wagnerrp:

the IPTV code has gone rather unmaintained for a while

[18:27:54]

wagnerrp:

there is potentially some issue with a change in Linux socket code that is preventing it from dropping one multicast group and picking up another in a timely manner

[18:28:11]

wagnerrp:

s/is/could be/

[18:28:15]

wagnerrp:

just throwing out guesses

[18:29:03]

henkie-:

hmm, 0.24 wasnt too bad, although 0.23 worked better

[18:29:46]

wagnerrp:

right now, the IPTV code runs off some long abandoned "live555" library

[18:30:00]

henkie-:

now it seems worse, and the logging isnt giving any hints (atleast not to me)

[18:30:01]

wagnerrp:

one of the devs is planning on rewriting it from the ground up for a future release

[18:30:24]

wagnerrp:

aside from that, dont know what to tell you... i have no personal experience with it

[18:30:39]

henkie-:

the live-library is included with mythv?

[18:30:48]

wagnerrp:

yes

[18:30:55]

henkie-:

or does it use my system-lib?

[18:30:58]

henkie-:

ah ok

[18:31:29]

henkie-:

too bad

[18:31:36]

henkie-:

I could try a downgrade

[18:58:40]

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[19:01:44]

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[19:03:24]

devinheitmueller:

brfransen: FYI: that HVR-1800 board showed up while I was away on vacation. Hopefully will get a chance to look at it this week now that I'm back.

[19:05:18]

wagnerrp:

sphery: '.'s are already replaced by ' 's as the first step of the scanner

[19:05:29]

sphery:

hehe, ok

[19:05:54]

sphery:

just saw that as the only obvious difference

[19:06:51]

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[19:06:54]

solars:

hi

[19:07:24]

solars:

I've setup my cine ct v6 but now in mythtv have 2 picture above each other – does anyone know which settings influence this? the computer is connected to a tv screen

[19:07:48]

wagnerrp:

are you using AMD graphics

[19:08:12]

sphery:

Video Playback settings, 3rd screen, change Playback Profile group to Slim

[19:08:40]

wagnerrp:

is it possible the broadcast is actually stereo?

[19:08:52]

wagnerrp:

and the two different views are separated on the top and bottom of the frame?

[19:08:53]

solars:

wagnerrp, yes its AMD

[19:09:09]

solars:

hmm how can I find out?

[19:09:17]

wagnerrp:

what sphery said, chances are its a problem caused by the 'bob' deinterlace filter

[19:09:18]

solars:

they are separated like that

[19:09:21]

wagnerrp:

set your playback profile to slim

[19:09:29]

solars:

ok sec, I'm a newb

[19:09:30]

solars:

:)

[19:09:34]

wagnerrp:

its a known issue in the AMD graphics drivers

[19:12:09]

uh992k (uh992k!~Thomas@dslb-094-218-203-179.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:12:14]

uh992k:

hey all :)

[19:12:15]

solars:

nice

[19:12:17]

solars:

it worked :)

[19:12:23]

solars:

thanks a lot!

[19:12:36]

uh992k:

I've a small problem with HDMI audio ... After turning my TV off and on the sound is gone ...

[19:13:03]

uh992k:

After googling I found out, I could use an active HDMI switcher to circumvent this problem ... Does someone know another solution?

[19:13:14]

kormoc:

you need 'audio' to be playing when the tv powers on

[19:13:31]

kormoc:

the tv 'detects' no audio signal and disables the input on 'boot'

[19:13:36]

uh992k:

Hmm ... I think I already tried this

[19:13:46]

uh992k:

I can check again, perhaps I did something wrong with my tests

[19:14:25]

sphery:

HDMI, because it's easier--there's only one cable!

[19:14:28]

uh992k:

nope ... didnt help

[19:14:32]

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[19:14:32]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuartm

[19:14:37]

** sphery is not a fan of the "automatically outsmart the system/user" ideas behind it **

[19:14:48]

kormoc:

uh992k, then perhaps your tv has a firmware update to fix it?

[19:15:00]

sphery:

uh992k: you may need to have the TV on when you restart X

[19:15:09]

kormoc:

uh992k, or if you need to grab a switcher, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00264NZWS/ref=wms_ohs_product is a decent one

[19:15:27]

uh992k:

yes, unfortunately the switcher is the only reliable solution I found

[19:16:09]

wagnerrp:

uh992k: perhaps you could grab an EDID block from when you tv is running, and forcefeed it into the driver when you start

[19:16:10]

uh992k:

I wouldn't mind if I could play analog audio on my TV while being on HDMI video, but this doesn't support my tv

[19:16:52]

uh992k:

booting up my mythtv is not the problem ... audio works fine

[19:17:07]

uh992k:

but the, swithing off and on again results in lost of audio on hdmi

[19:17:16]

stuartm:

sphery: in this case it's the TV at fault, not really an HDMI problem

[19:17:53]

sphery:

yeah, agreed

[19:18:08]

sphery:

but in spite of the "standard" all these TVs and such have different ways of dealing with it

[19:18:58]

sphery:

which just means confusion/work/... for the users

[19:19:35]

stuartm:

hmm, maybe I misunderstood when they said there would be a 'static firing' of the Falcon 9 I thought they would actually be firing the engines ... this is worse than watching paint dry

[19:20:29]

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[19:21:28]

wagnerrp:

why would they static fire a whole rocket?

[19:21:36]

wagnerrp:

seems they could just do the individual engines

[19:21:38]

uh992k:

hmm ... unplugging and replugging the hdmi cable seems to work

[19:21:39]

stuartm:

uh992k: I'd send in an email to the support address for your TV's manufacturer, might not get you anywhere but you never know until you try – many TVs these days have upgradable firmware for bugs like the one you're describing

[19:21:58]

uh992k:

yay ... after replugging my hdmi cable sound is here again

[19:22:19]

wagnerrp:

the whole point of that Merlin being designed as it is is so that they can mass produce the thing cheaply

[19:23:08]

wagnerrp:

making it relatively economical, if not particularly efficient, even if they cant get their recovery mechanism to work

[19:23:51]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: I think they are testing the systems and software, rather than the engine itself, but that really is just a guess ... I've not been following too closely, I just thought it might be interesting to watch :)

[19:24:07]

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[19:24:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/04/s . . . elated_right

[19:25:15]

stuartm:

24 minutes past zero hour and the clock's still stopped at 13 seconds ... I think I'm waiting for something that was never going to happen, but since there is no commentary ...

[19:25:36]

stuartm:

guess I can wait for a video to hit youtube after the event

[19:25:57]

stuartm:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php

[19:26:34]

sphery:

stuartm: yeah, you'd think if they're test firing all 9 engines on it, they'd at least show the engines/bottom of the rocket in the video

[19:27:01]

sphery:

they're covering it nicely with their OSD

[19:27:16]

wagnerrp:

its a shame the SLS isnt taking the F9H/D4H approach

[19:27:31]

** wagnerrp hates SRBs **

[19:27:34]

stuartm:

sphery: they angle for the last 24 minutes was a wider angle showing the whole rocket, they've only switched it in the last couple of minutes

[19:27:48]

sphery:

ah, yeah, now they're showing bottom

[19:28:16]

stuartm:

it's as though they have started cycling through camera views to keep viewers entertained while they figure something out

[19:28:24]

sphery:

so, they're kerosene engines, right? are they also using LOX? (wondering about the "clouds")

[19:28:34]

stuartm:

sphery: LOX + kerosene

[19:28:34]

wagnerrp:

kerosene and LOX, correct

[19:28:41]

wagnerrp:

clouds?

[19:29:06]

sphery:

mist coming off the top of the middle section of the rocket

[19:29:10]

sphery:

from off-venting

[19:29:24]

wagnerrp:

ah yeah, probably LOX venting

[19:29:28]

stuartm:

and a nice shower of ice just now, most interesting thing to happen so far

[19:30:22]

wagnerrp:

is there some underground plenum and exhaust chamber we cant see from this angle?

[19:30:33]

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[19:30:36]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: aye, you could see it in earlier shots

[19:31:18]

wagnerrp:

just curious, as without one, on a static test, that launch pad and surrounding building are toast

[19:31:26]

stuartm:

heh, yep

[19:31:37]

sphery:

yeah, I thought they talked up their engines as being significantly cheaper then LOX/LH2 engines because they didn't need to do the same cryogenic handling... guess LOX is easier than LH2 (or just that the whole thing is half the cost since only one cryo material)?

[19:32:12]

wagnerrp:

the problem with LH2 is that it is so damn light

[19:32:26]

wagnerrp:

the advantage of LH2 is that it is so damn light

[19:32:31]

sphery:

hehe, yeah

[19:33:03]

stuartm:

you've still got to wonder how warm that building facade will become in a real launch

[19:33:24]

wagnerrp:

specifically, they actually burn LH2 rockets very fuel rich

[19:33:54]

stuartm:

actual launch is supposed to be next Monday, Dragon capsule to rendezvous with ISS – nice milestone if they achieve it

[19:33:54]

wagnerrp:

the speed of sound is inversely proportional to the square root of molecular mass

[19:34:41]

wagnerrp:

so for a given exhaust temperature, you can get 2 AMU hydrogen going a lot faster than 18 AMU water or 44 AMU CO2

[19:35:05]

wagnerrp:

which is why specific impulse from LH2 rockets is so much higher

[19:35:18]

wagnerrp:

(and why solid rockets are so poor)

[19:35:48]

wagnerrp:

higher specific impulse means lower fuel fraction, and lower launch vehicle size and mass

[19:35:49]

sphery:

plus you couldn't do a test burn of a SRB before it launches the next week :)

[19:36:27]

wagnerrp:

fuel is dirt cheap anyway, relatively speaking

[19:36:33]

stuartm:

heh, alarm went off because they'd set it to trigger at the wrong value ... guess this is why they are testing

[19:36:42]

sphery:

gotta say that rocket looks amazingly slender compared to what I pictured for a 9-engine rocket

[19:36:48]

wagnerrp:

so it all comes down to what allows you to build the cheapest rocket motor and cheapest fuel tanks

[19:36:58]

sphery:

not sure if it's just /that/ tall or if it is really slim

[19:37:26]

wagnerrp:

sphery: they're taking the "russian" rocket design approach

[19:37:32]

stuartm:

sphery: aye, they've a picture of the 9 engine group elsewhere on the site, it looks surprisingly small

[19:37:47]

sphery:

hehe, now that I look closer at the web page, I see that the bottom of the rocket is still on the ground, but the top is poking up above the clouds...

[19:37:50]

wagnerrp:

russians built a bunch of small rockets, because they didnt have the materials or turbopump tech to drive large combustion chambers and bells

[19:37:52]

sphery:

so it is /that/ tall :)

[19:38:05]

sphery:

strange offset to the top of the picture, though

[19:38:06]

wagnerrp:

while here, theyre using a bunch of small rockets, so they can build more cheaply

[19:38:15]

wagnerrp:

and just strap on however many they need for any particular job

[19:38:22]

sphery:

interesting

[19:38:39]

stuartm:

sphery: http://www.spacex.com/assets/img/9-engines_no_human-640.jpg

[19:39:16]

sphery:

I want the human so I can guage height better

[19:39:30]

sphery:

though there is a door--which I can assume to be about standard size--in the video

[19:39:36]

wagnerrp:

sphery: fighre that crate off to the right side is about 4' tall

[19:39:42]

stuartm:

for a frame of reference you've got those shelves in the background which are about 6–7ft high I'd estimate

[19:39:59]

sphery:

hmmm, yeah

[19:40:08]

stuartm:

it really isn't that big

[19:40:25]

wagnerrp:

the consequence with multiple rockets is that you cant do any "fancy" rocket nozzles, like an aerospike

[19:40:45]

stuartm:

http://www.spacex.com/assets/img/falcon9fairing17ft.jpg

[19:40:55]

wagnerrp:

so instead you're either going to run poor expansion ratios and low specific impulse over most of your burn

[19:41:04]

sphery:

so it's basically the same diameter as an Atlas V... 3.66m for Falcon 9 and 3.81m for Atlas V

[19:41:08]

wagnerrp:

or youve got to stage it more for shorter burns per stage

[19:41:12]

sphery:

(per wikipedia)

[19:41:15]

stuartm:

so there's your diameter – 5m, or 16 ft

[19:41:51]

stuartm:

well that's the fairing, which is larger than the rocket body, so yeah, 3–4m for the engines

[19:42:21]

wagnerrp:

the F9H is actually doing something fairly fancy

[19:42:23]

sphery:

yeah, looks like just under a 1.5m bulge from rocket body

[19:42:25]

stuartm:

Width: 3.6 m (12 ft)

[19:42:32]

wagnerrp:

while at cursory glance, its just three of those things side-by-side

[19:42:34]

stuartm:

according to http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php

[19:42:54]

wagnerrp:

they are interlinked, and the boosters act as auxiliary fuel tanks for the central core

[19:43:27]

wagnerrp:

on the F9, the core burns for 170s before jettisoning

[19:43:45]

wagnerrp:

on the F9H, the boosters will burn for something significantly less than that

[19:44:05]

sphery:

anyway, Atlas V has 1 engine and is basically same size as Falcon 9... so when I heard 9-engine on F9, I just assumed much bigger

[19:44:08]

wagnerrp:

while the core will burn for something significantly more than that as it still has its whole internal store of fuel after jettisoning the boosters

[19:44:16]

sphery:

(1 engine in first stage that is)

[19:44:36]

wagnerrp:

so the boosters you would run at lower expansion (smaller nozzle) for higher low altitude efficiency

[19:44:47]

wagnerrp:

while the core you would make larger, for more efficient high altitude operation

[19:46:55]

stuartm:

sphery: to some extent I suppose 9 smaller engines is better than 1 big engine in that you've got something to burn in the event of an engine failure which even if you no longer have the necessary thust to achieve orbit allows for a controlled flight path before showering an area with debris

[19:47:50]

sphery:

cool... btw, this is a /very/ long 13s

[19:47:56]

wagnerrp:

one few engine with a longer burn would have no trouble getting to orbit

[19:48:02]

sphery:

(that's not 13min?)

[19:48:38]

wagnerrp:

im guessing minutes

[19:48:56]

sphery:

I think I'm heading out for a run... Maybe I'll hear it, instead ;)

[19:49:01]

stuartm:

it was seconds, they just announced that they are going to reset the clock at 20 minutes

[19:49:04]

sphery:

(yeah, I know--not if it's on the ground the whole time)

[19:49:34]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: so this was an unplanned hold

[19:49:35]

wagnerrp:

?

[19:49:51]

stuartm:

they got a warning at 13s about something or other, turned out that someone had programmed 'the wrong limit' and it was therefore a false alarm

[19:50:05]

sphery:

always blame the programmers

[19:50:07]

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[19:50:32]

wagnerrp:

ah, i figured they were running diagnostics during a hold and found a problem

[19:51:03]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: information is sparse, but yeah, that's what was implied by the audio a few minutes ago – false alarm, fixing the threshold for an alarm and restarting the clock at the 20 min point

[19:52:25]

stuartm:

the clock actually stopped at 47 seconds, then a few minutes later it mysteriously jumped to 13 seconds without explanation

[19:53:19]

stuartm:

they apparently have a twitter feed explaining what is happening, but you need to be a registered twitter user and become a 'friend' or something to view it which is dumb

[19:53:45]

stuartm:

http://twitter.com/#!/SpaceXMissions

[19:54:48]

stuartm:

given that this was supposed to happen nearly an hour ago now, and I was watching for 20 minutes before that, I've just about lost interest ;)

[19:57:16]

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[20:09:32]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: there's your exhaust chamber

[20:16:32]

wagnerrp:

i guess those are four big lightning towers flanking the launch pad?

[20:16:36]

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[20:17:36]

stuartm:

seems logical

[20:18:04]

stuartm:

can't think what other purpose they might serve

[20:20:19]

stuartm:

yeah, lightning towers according to http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9.html – the old Titan IV launch pad

[20:30:06]

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[20:34:59]

wagnerrp:

sphery: there is already an open ticket for the video name parser issues

[20:35:15]

wagnerrp:

but there have been no changes in the code since before the 0.24 release that would cause those issues

[20:35:49]

wagnerrp:

and the listed format is a supported one

[20:36:09]

wagnerrp:

the current assumption is some change in the behavior of Qt regular expressions is breaking something

[20:38:23]

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[20:42:23]

solars:

does anyone know if there is a working android app for 0.24 that allows stremaing? I always get Client speaks protocol version 56 but we speak 63!

[20:49:11]

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[20:53:17]

scampgb:

Hi. Could some kind soul please help me with diagnosing an intermittent (but frequent) problem with DVB-T tuning/recorder failure? The problem has been going on for a while, but got worse when they moved the various multiplexes around in the UK

[20:53:37]

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[20:54:06]

earthw0rm:

If I want to add a new HD at a later date, what's the best way to deal with partitioning? What does MythTV do with the different drives available to it?

[20:54:31]

wagnerrp:

in mythtv, we use a mechanism we call "storage groups"

[20:54:43]

wagnerrp:

a storage group can have multiple directories defined within it

[20:55:08]

wagnerrp:

you can specify multiple storage groups, and which one a recording rule should operate against

[20:55:31]

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[20:55:31]

wagnerrp:

when mythtv goes to record something, it will decide where among that list of folders to record to

[20:55:38]

wagnerrp:

based off current disk load and free space

[20:56:09]

wagnerrp:

you can move recordings between those defined directories at will and mythtv will be able to find them

[20:58:22]

earthw0rm:

Smooth

[20:59:56]

wizbit:

wagnerrp: does C++ code work that out, or perl?

[21:00:21]

wagnerrp:

c++

[21:00:27]

ikevin:

hi

[21:00:32]

wagnerrp:

why would we be doing any of that in perl?

[21:00:43]

wizbit:

im not sure

[21:01:11]

scampgb:

wagnerp: any hints on my DVB-T woes? All I seem to be getting in the logs are "Tuning ==> Recorder failed", typically timestamped a few seconds after the start of the recording (even though the tuner is then tied up until the scheduled end of the recording)

[21:01:22]

ikevin:

does myth support to be run using kernel's framebuffer?

[21:01:44]

ikevin:

or i need X?

[21:01:45]

wagnerrp:

no, mythtv does not support framebuffer output

[21:01:47]

stuartm:

not any more, support was removed years ago

[21:01:49]

wagnerrp:

needs X

[21:02:16]

wagnerrp:

in nearly all likelihood, you dont want to be using hardware that would require framebuffer use with mythtv anyway

[21:02:36]

ikevin:

ok, there are no project about myth without X?

[21:03:00]

wagnerrp:

what are you trying to do that you cant use X?

[21:03:37]

ikevin:

just search if i can remove it

[21:03:55]

wagnerrp:

to what end?

[21:04:05]

ikevin:

if X is not needed, why using it?

[21:04:25]

wagnerrp:

because X is available on nearly any hardware anyone would want to use these days

[21:04:32]

wagnerrp:

save embedded stuff like a phone or tablet

[21:06:17]

stuartm:

ikevin: you don't need your middle toes either, have you cut them off? The point I'm trying to make is that it's a waste of time and effort to be worrying about whether you really need something installed or not – disk space is cheap, if it's not used it doesn't use memory, spend your time on more productive things

[21:06:19]

ikevin:

i understand why myth need it, i just search a way to make my embeded system more "speed" (sorry for my bad english)

[21:06:59]

wagnerrp:

ikevin: are you talking about for a dedicated headless backend?

[21:07:28]

ikevin:

stuartm, or search a way to manage ~60 small hw who people said they are "slow"

[21:07:57]

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[21:08:04]

ikevin:

wagnerrp, not, i just work on frontend for now

[21:08:44]

ikevin:

(i work on thinclient ca17)

[21:08:47]

wagnerrp:

on what hardware?

[21:10:31]

ikevin:

cpu: via C3, 1GB RAM, Castelrock graphic (32Mb), unlimited hdd space (netboot)

[21:11:03]

wagnerrp:

ah, so something too slow for use with mythtv

[21:11:31]

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[21:11:40]

ikevin:

while frontend is started, all is fine, that the boot process who is slow

[21:11:41]

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[21:11:41]

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[21:11:42]

wagnerrp:

mythtv dropped XvMC support in 0.25, making the old VIA systems largely useless even for standard definition playback

[21:12:14]

wagnerrp:

and there was never any form of hardware acceleration for the old framebuffer output

[21:12:28]

ikevin:

~10s to boot system, ~1mn to get myth ready, and ~10 seconds are needed for X

[21:12:32]

wagnerrp:

well, besides the specialized PVR-350 output

[21:12:55]

wagnerrp:

mythtv cannot operate over thin clients

[21:13:12]

wagnerrp:

especially old Via ones with only 10/100 networking

[21:13:55]

ikevin:

if people are patient, there are no problem, all work fine, that just the boot time who is not good

[21:14:06]

wagnerrp:

theres simply not enough network bandwidth to comfortably run the UI over, and absolutely not enough to run the video over

[21:14:13]

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[21:14:38]

wagnerrp:

and between 10 seconds to boot the system, and 10 seconds to boot X, thats only 20 seconds needed to start the thin client

[21:15:27]

wagnerrp:

a "thin client" refers to a machine that does nothing but act as a frontend terminal

[21:15:43]

wagnerrp:

all applications are run remotely, and the thin client merely provides a display for those applications to be outputon

[21:15:52]

ikevin:

i just use them as frontend

[21:16:49]

wagnerrp:

right, but thats not a "thin client"

[21:16:54]

wagnerrp:

thats just an underpowered PC

[21:17:20]

ikevin:

i think it's normal myth take some time to start, it's a big app, so, if i can win 5~10s at boot time it make my client "happy"

[21:17:25]

ikevin:

yes, it's

[21:17:54]

wagnerrp:

better to figure out why mythtv is taking a minute to start

[21:17:59]

wagnerrp:

it shouldnt be taking anything near that

[21:18:10]

wagnerrp:

and youre still going to be stuck on 0.24 or previous

[21:18:35]

wagnerrp:

or youre going to have to start maintaining your own fork with support for those antiquated video decoding mechanisms

[21:19:04]

wizbit:

we could call the fork 'torc' :P

[21:19:23]

kormoc:

ikevin, Can't you just 'sleep' the frontend rather then turn it off? That would 'speed' up the boot time

[21:19:24]

wagnerrp:

perhaps 'crot'

[21:19:44]

wagnerrp:

since it would be doing the expressed opposite purpose of torc

[21:19:49]

wizbit:

lol

[21:19:53]

wagnerrp:

which is getting rid of all that old cruft

[21:20:04]

scampgb:

Torc?

[21:20:50]

wizbit:

old cruft gives it more character

[21:21:07]

solars:

is there anything to stream TV live to android?

[21:21:19]

solars:

mythdroid seems to only allow videos to be streamed

[21:21:42]

ikevin:

personnaly, i don't want to do anything on myth (perharps optimising my config so ...), i understand myth need ressource and some time to start, just want to know if i can zap X, if not, my client need to be patient :)

[21:22:05]

ikevin:

kormoc, i make search on this way too

[21:22:39]

stuartm:

well we'd like myth to be faster to start up, even if that's not your goal ;)

[21:23:25]

wagnerrp:

however its just a few seconds here, on a quite old 2nd gen 1.8GHz opteron

[21:23:42]

wagnerrp:

a great deal faster than your C3s, but just as old, and very slow compared to modern hardware

[21:25:33]

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[21:26:17]

stuartm:

takes around 7 seconds here, there is a full 3 second delay immediately following the 'schema version' line which I think needs to be investigated

[21:26:38]

wagnerrp:

and the DBUS stuff

[21:27:01]

stuartm:

actually make that 4 seconds

[21:28:03]

stuartm:

so over half the startup time occurs between the "Current MythTV Schema Version" and "Registering Internal as a media playback plugin" lines ... (with standard logging)

[21:28:03]

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[21:30:30]

stuartm:

ah, heh, it's doing the loading of base.xml with all the images etc

[21:32:39]

stuartm:

hmm, some themes are sticking far too much in base.xml, stuff that doesn't need to be loaded upfront

[21:35:18]

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[21:38:01]

earthw0rm:

Hi, can anyone tell me if this PC spec is okay for a MythTV machine?

[21:38:04]

earthw0rm:

http://pastebin.com/wT5c3cks

[21:40:10]

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[21:42:00]

AndyCap:

earthw0rm: you could try without the extra cooler, no experience with the biostar motherboard

[21:42:00]

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[21:42:39]

earthw0rm:

AndyCap: it definately says HDMI audio for that mobo :D

[21:42:53]

earthw0rm:

Extra cooler? Have I got two in there? lol

[21:44:17]

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[21:44:24]

AndyCap:

earthw0rm: depends on how sensitive you are to noise, but the stock intel coolers aren't horrible

[21:44:48]

earthw0rm:

So the CPU box comes with one?

[21:44:48]

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[21:45:09]

AndyCap:

earthw0rm: yes

[21:45:19]

earthw0rm:

Oh right, that'll do then

[21:45:31]

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[21:46:49]

AndyCap:

earthw0rm: but buying a brand new intel chipset may give you an extra helping of software issues on linux

[21:47:09]

earthw0rm:

Oh

[21:47:18]

earthw0rm:

Is that the mobo?

[21:47:31]

AndyCap:

earthw0rm: yes, H55

[21:47:35]

AndyCap:

sorry, H77

[21:47:54]

earthw0rm:

Bugger, better find another one that does HDMI audio

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[22:00:42]

AndyCap:

earthw0rm: the odds are good that if it has hdmi and supports intel onboard graphics it does hdmi audio

[22:05:00]

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[22:06:40]

solars:

is there anything that lets me directly see/filter imdb ratings and add interesting movies to the schedule? mythweb only has a link that needs to be opened

[22:10:59]

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[22:14:07]

sphery:

solars: no, we don't operate on any imdb data

[22:14:13]

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[22:14:48]

sphery:

solars: however, if you have a good listings provider (like Schedules Direct), there will be "star" ratings for shows, and you can actually do searches, i.e. in MythWeb or using mythfrontend for, say, "Movies 3 stars or higher"

[22:16:57]

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[22:17:11]

solars:

I found a mythtv plugin for tvbrowser, that way I seem to be able to combine it, search by imdb rating and then directly schedule

[22:18:02]

stuartm:

imdb's Terms and Conditions don't really allow an app like MythTV to use their data, we can link to their website but that's about it

[22:19:02]

stuartm:

of course for apps that don't care about violating T&Cs (or copyright, or the law) then it's less of an issue

[22:19:20]

solars:

ah

[22:19:22]

solars:

I see

[22:19:42]

solars:

so I could also create some kind of javascript snippet that fetches the ratings and alters the page..

[22:19:52]

solars:

of mythweb

[22:20:14]

stuartm:

considering a large portion of their data is user contributed you'd think they would be less stingy with it

[22:20:33]

solars:

yeah.. true

[22:21:44]

solars:

two general questions: is there a program browser for android that lets me schedule shows, and is it possible to stream live tv to android?

[22:23:11]

stuartm:

we source data from sites like themoviedb.org and thetvdb.com which are entirely user-driven, offer free public APIs and license their data under the Creative Commons or similar

[22:23:40]

solars:

ah

[22:23:50]

solars:

I assume thats the ratings that I can select in the filter of mythweb?

[22:26:03]

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[22:27:36]

stuartm:

I've heard talk of a decent android mythtv app, but I don't really know anything about it

[22:28:15]

stuartm:

there is nothing 'official' just whatever user/fan created stuff

[22:28:25]

jams:

mythdroid is the only one I know of

[22:28:49]

jams:

everything else seems to be a remote

[22:29:16]

stuartm:

do android apps have to be java, or do they permit C?

[22:30:17]

solars:

I'd really like to stream tv to my phone directly

[22:30:35]

stuartm:

I seem to recall they can be in C, but I'm not sure ... not that it really matters, I don't have the time or interest in writing an app at this time

[22:30:37]

jams:

i am only aware of java, but that doesn't really mean much

[22:30:43]

AndyCap:

stuartm: there is some NDK support iirc

[22:30:51]

AndyCap:

stuartm: but it is supposed to be java yes

[22:31:11]

AndyCap:

stuartm: http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html

[22:32:04]

stuartm:

yeah, I really don't like Java, certainly not enough to spend any amount of my free time writing a non-portable application in it

[22:32:26]

AndyCap:

write once, run everywhere!!

[22:32:30]

AndyCap:

*cough*

[22:32:43]

stuartm:

hehe

[22:34:44]

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[22:40:55]

stuartm:

the whole RE aspect of java ultimately seems to undermine that whole portability argument – it's like saying that a caravan allows you to go anywhere and stay anywhere – so long as it has a purpose built hard standing, power connection and waste water hookup for which you'll be charged a daily rate – that's really not so portable after all, certainly no more so than say MythTV can be said to be portable because it can be compiled and run

[22:40:56]

stuartm:

on multiple platforms, plus being compiled natively means it's faster

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[22:42:10]

stuartm:

so really the only advantage is that java allows you to ship one 'binary' instead of one for each platform

[22:43:13]

stuartm:

and that's assuming you're not working against some particular API/library that's only one one platform, in this case an android device, in which case it's not portable at all

[22:43:37]

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[23:23:55]

tgm4883:

sphery, so according to VLC peeps, that bug is fixed in the latest version (which is what I tested on 2.0.1). I'll download the windows version as well to test

[23:24:35]

sphery:

weird

[23:25:28]

tgm4883:

yea IDK

[23:25:33]

tgm4883:

I'll test it when I get home though

[23:26:46]

tgm4883:

I'll play back the m3u8 file in another player as well and see if it fares any better

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[23:37:26]

k-man:

where is the setting which says preserve X amount of space on the recordings hdd?

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[23:40:10]

k-man:

ah, its in the frontend

[23:40:26]

k-man:

but appears to be 1 setting for all recordings groups?

[23:40:53]

wagnerrp:

correct

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[23:58:54]

Captain_Murdoch:

k-man, s/recording/storage/, but yes. we've discussed plans to create a table to track actual storage groups and attributes such as a per-group preserve amount, but it's low on priority lists.

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