Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Sunday, April 22nd, 2012, 03:29 UTC

[03:29:01]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v MythLogBot

[03:29:02]

Beirdo:

wonder what caused reboot?

[03:31:10]

** wagnerrp thinks it was a power outage at osuosl **

[03:31:53]

** wagnerrp pokes Beirdo **

[03:31:53]

SmallR2002:

or war

[03:35:58]

Beirdo:

musta been

[03:36:12]

Beirdo:

anyways, back from the brewery :)

[03:36:44]

wagnerrp:

a certain 'mythmon' logged into the power grid and tripped the breaker for alcor

[03:38:14]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:39:59]

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[03:40:00]

wagnerrp:

so im looking to replicate the 'local' variable in FileSystemInfo for freebsd

[03:40:07]

wagnerrp:

right now, it is only defined for linux and osx

[03:40:22]

wagnerrp:

looking through the statfs, its somewhat varied from linux

[03:40:35]

wagnerrp:

and has a f_flags uint64_t

[03:41:21]

wagnerrp:

with flags MNT_LOCAL and VFCF_NETWORK

[03:41:30]

wagnerrp:

i wonder if i can pick up the value directly

[03:41:44]

wagnerrp:

rather than the crude filesystem type matching in linux/osx

[03:42:13]

JoshTriplett:

What is "local" used for?

[03:42:57]

wagnerrp:

used to define whether the filesystem is "local" to that system, or something remote like NFS, CIFS, or AFS

[03:43:15]

JoshTriplett:

No, I guessed that much. I meant, why does MythTV care, and can it be made not to? :)

[03:43:35]

JoshTriplett:

If the question is "do locks work", for instance, it's easy to check that.

[03:43:43]

wagnerrp:

im trying to make the content scanner for the video library more intelligent

[03:44:06]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: How so?

[03:44:09]

wagnerrp:

i.e. if the content shows up on multiple backend servers in a scan, it will specify it as existing on the one where the filesystem is local

[03:44:27]

wagnerrp:

so it doesnt stream from the source over NFS to another backend, and then over mythproto to the frontend

[03:44:51]

JoshTriplett:

Wouldn't that only apply if you have multiple backends *and* some of them are combined backend/frontends?

[03:45:18]

wagnerrp:

no, it would only apply if you had multiple backends, and your video library was shared over NFS or some other network file system

[03:45:19]

JoshTriplett:

Plus, these days you don't need NFS at all, given mythvideo's ability to stream over the network.

[03:45:33]

wagnerrp:

which, considering you still need NFS (or similar) mounted to record

[03:45:46]

wagnerrp:

someone might have their drives mounted on the remote backend

[03:46:32]

wagnerrp:

the frontend will automatically decide to access from the filesystem if available

[03:46:36]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: This *seems* like a "don't do that then" to me.

[03:47:03]

JoshTriplett:

Is there any good reason to NFS-mount anymore, rather than just using the lovely built-in streaming?

[03:47:11]

wagnerrp:

well consider you have a drive on your master backend, and a slave backend for whatever reason

[03:47:23]

wagnerrp:

your slave doesnt have drives, so you mount your master's drive on the slave

[03:47:31]

JoshTriplett:

Sure, perhaps because you need a slave to hold more tuner cards.

[03:47:34]

JoshTriplett:

Unusual, but possible.

[03:47:34]

wagnerrp:

however that same drive contains video library content as well

[03:48:02]

wagnerrp:

so, now that same video library content is accessible from both the master and slave

[03:48:06]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: I'd suggest pointedly not pointing the slave backend at that video library content, but I see your point.

[03:48:39]

wagnerrp:

well a change made late in the last dev cycle meant you had no choice but to point the slave backend at that video library content

[03:48:47]

JoshTriplett:

"had" or "have"?

[03:48:49]

JoshTriplett:

And why?

[03:49:02]

SmallR2002:

well, i added some xmltv id's, just updating the db now

[03:49:10]

wagnerrp:

for recordings, if you do not define any directories for recording, it will automatically fall back to those defined by the master

[03:49:18]

wagnerrp:

the idea being you only ever have to configure them once

[03:49:23]

JoshTriplett:

Huh.

[03:49:42]

wagnerrp:

the Videos group had special behavior previously that did not do that

[03:49:50]

JoshTriplett:

Assuming identical paths across different systems seems error-prone, but OK.

[03:50:06]

wagnerrp:

however a few months back, i modified it to behave in the same manner as everything else

[03:50:15]

wagnerrp:

as a result, this issue now occurs

[03:50:59]

JoshTriplett:

So, net result, you have multiple references to the same videos, and a frontend won't always end up getting a video directly from the backend holding it.

[03:51:33]

wagnerrp:

right now, videos are just collected by a std::map, keyed off the filename relative to the specified directory

[03:51:43]

wagnerrp:

as it scans through multiple directories on multiple hosts

[03:51:52]

wagnerrp:

if a video shows up in multiple places, it will get overwritten

[03:51:55]

JoshTriplett:

Ouch. So it assumes same filename == same video?

[03:52:03]

JoshTriplett:

Seems like that ought to use a hash or similar.

[03:52:04]

wagnerrp:

since std::map only allows one instance per key

[03:52:16]

wagnerrp:

consequently, its fairly arbitrary which one will get picked up

[03:52:23]

wagnerrp:

JoshTriplett: yes, that is by design

[03:52:31]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: ...why?

[03:52:38]

wagnerrp:

as all defined directories on all hosts get merged into a single view

[03:52:42]

JoshTriplett:

Or rather, why wouldn't it make sense to index it by content?

[03:52:54]

JoshTriplett:

(Bonus: if you rearrange your files, the frontends don't care.)

[03:53:04]

wagnerrp:

rather than having a clumsy scenario where you have multiple top level folders, one for each defined directory

[03:53:15]

wagnerrp:

content is hashed... sort of

[03:53:31]

wagnerrp:

we just use the opensubtitles format, based off the file size, and first and last 64KB

[03:53:41]

wagnerrp:

enough to get uniqueness, but not enough to take any significant time

[03:53:46]

JoshTriplett:

That works.

[03:54:02]

wagnerrp:

when you scan, any missing content is compared to any new content, and the filename is shifted

[03:54:21]

wagnerrp:

which can be a problem if you have multiple linked/symlinked copies of a single video

[03:54:30]

wagnerrp:

as it will just keep shuffling from location to location each time you scan

[03:55:07]

JoshTriplett:

Sure, you really only want to remember a single copy of any given video.

[03:55:32]

wagnerrp:

well some people have multiple copies, and organize through the file tree

[03:55:52]

wagnerrp:

as it stands, that is not an option when working with mythtv

[03:56:07]

wagnerrp:

however, mythtv has its own internal views it can generate, built off the metadata rather than the filesystem

[03:56:14]

JoshTriplett:

Yeah, that seems vastly preferable.

[03:56:32]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: You can't currently browse recordings via filesystem path; taking the same approach for videos seems ideal.

[03:56:54]

wagnerrp:

well there is no filesystem path to browse anyway

[03:56:59]

wagnerrp:

recordings are all stored flat

[03:57:06]

wagnerrp:

no subdirectories to look at

[03:57:10]

JoshTriplett:

OK. You can't browse them by filename, either. :)

[03:57:38]

JoshTriplett:

(And technically you can have multiple directories; I currently have two drives holding recordings, for instance.)

[03:57:42]

wagnerrp:

when its just a chanid/starttime pair, it wouldnt do you much good to attempt it anyway

[03:58:27]

wagnerrp:

multiple directories, sure... but the recordings are arbitrarily balanced between them

[03:59:23]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: Going back to the earlier issue, I see what you mean about wanting some way to decide which backend to reference a video from.

[03:59:43]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: It does make sense that you want the one that has the video stored locally.

[04:00:14]

** JoshTriplett tries to think of a way to do that without having to look at mount points. **

[04:00:29]

JoshTriplett:

Wait, stupid idea...

[04:00:46]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: Wouldn't you cover almost all cases there by always preferring the master backend over slave backends?

[04:01:01]

wagnerrp:

almost all, yes

[04:01:12]

JoshTriplett:

Unless someone does something crazy like attaching the storage to slave backends and having a diskless master backend...

[04:01:29]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt be surprised to see someone do so

[04:01:41]

JoshTriplett:

There's a point where people start expecting too much flexibility. :)

[04:02:00]

wagnerrp:

especially with something like a low power master backend that really does nothing, and a slave backend with all the disks that gets shut down

[04:02:18]

wagnerrp:

although a tunerless/diskless backend is not officially supported (most things should work)

[04:02:21]

clever:

JoshTriplett: my master backend had only storage disks, no os disk, for the longest while

[04:02:39]

wagnerrp:

and underpowered backends are also not supported, since they dont have the power to effectively run the scheduler

[04:02:41]

JoshTriplett:

clever: That's a different case.

[04:02:50]

JoshTriplett:

clever: And that would work fine here.

[04:03:02]

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[04:03:08]

clever:

i had to retire it, it went tits up when i yanked the capture card

[04:03:18]

clever:

only 2 of the 3 drivers would work at any time

[04:03:19]

** JoshTriplett keeps feeling tempted to netboot all frontends from the backend. **

[04:03:19]

wagnerrp:

however the current plan is to break apart the backend

[04:03:40]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: That sounds interesting. Into what pieces?

[04:03:48]

wagnerrp:

instead using one single backend, that inherently knows it is the backend, and only performs scheduler and management tasks

[04:04:08]

wagnerrp:

and a bunch of media/tuner servers spread across various machines

[04:04:15]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: So, effectively, a backend with tuners attached would run as both a master backend and a slave backend?

[04:04:44]

JoshTriplett:

That seems pretty sensible.

[04:05:08]

wagnerrp:

effectively, it would be the same behavior as you see currently

[04:05:32]

wagnerrp:

only the tuners arent carrying around a lot of extra weight that is just sitting idle

[04:06:32]

wagnerrp:

plus it simplifies a number of internal mechanisms where we have to provide a extra route for the management routines to connect back into the local recording routines

[04:06:54]

wagnerrp:

it would be a whole lot easier if all that stuff was elsewhere and interfaced with over mythproto

[04:09:02]

wagnerrp:

JoshTriplett: basically, any time you might hit this point, thats code you have to needlessly duplicate... http://code.mythtv.org/trac/browser/mythtv/my . . . ext.cpp#L290

[04:09:41]

wagnerrp:

and there are at least a dozen instances ive come across where that occurs

[04:11:01]

wagnerrp:

including one annoying one in that scanner that i want to remove

[04:17:29]

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[04:26:56]

JoshTriplett:

Strange error: after upgrading from 0.22 to 0.25, all of my videos have the wrong duration listed in the OSD>

[04:26:59]

JoshTriplett:

s/>/./

[04:27:26]

JoshTriplett:

Hour-long recordings show a duration anywhere from 1:22 to 9 hours.

[04:27:31]

JoshTriplett:

They *play* just fine, though.

[04:27:56]

JoshTriplett:

And they stop after the right amount of time.

[04:28:07]

JoshTriplett:

How might I fix this?

[04:29:07]

wagnerrp:

how many recordings do you have total?

[04:30:16]

JoshTriplett:

Got an easy way I can get that statistic? Easily hundreds.

[04:30:53]

JoshTriplett:

Why?

[04:31:11]

wagnerrp:

quick and dirty (and very lengthy) solution...

[04:31:16]

wagnerrp:

'mythcommflag --rebuild --queue'

[04:31:21]

JoshTriplett:

Looks like 670.

[04:31:24]

JoshTriplett:

Heh.

[04:31:29]

JoshTriplett:

I can do that if necessary.

[04:31:46]

wagnerrp:

adds a new user job to rebuild the internal seek tables for every recording you have

[04:31:58]

JoshTriplett:

But before I do, I wondered if I could help diagnose the problem so that future MythTV upgraders didn't hit it. :)

[04:32:01]

wagnerrp:

and lets your backend sit there churning through that for hours/days

[04:32:08]

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[04:32:17]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you know more about that than i do

[04:32:30]

JoshTriplett:

I don't want to destroy potentially useful bug-report information. :)

[04:32:52]

wagnerrp:

the bug is fixed, but the damage is already done

[04:33:04]

wagnerrp:

the old seek tables were bad in some way i dont know off hand

[04:33:10]

JoshTriplett:

Oh.

[04:33:15]

JoshTriplett:

So, there's no easy way to fix them, then?

[04:33:27]

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[04:33:35]

JoshTriplett:

I mean, they're not upgradable?

[04:34:30]

wagnerrp:

like i said, i really dont know what the problem is, just that rebuilding the seek table seems to fix it

[04:34:41]

wagnerrp:

try running it on just one and see what happens

[04:34:51]

JoshTriplett:

Sure, will do.

[04:34:59]

wagnerrp:

mythcommflag --rebuild --chanid <xxxx> --starttime <yyyyyyyyyyyyyy>

[04:35:15]

JoshTriplett:

Will --file work?

[04:35:25]

wagnerrp:

nope

[04:35:32]

JoshTriplett:

Huh. OK.

[04:35:42]

wagnerrp:

but the chanid and start time are readily available from the filename

[04:35:48]

JoshTriplett:

Sure.

[04:37:30]

BLZbubba:

ok my upper right hand corner has a date/time of Sat Apr 21 2012, 10:...

[04:37:40]

BLZbubba:

is there a way to make the clock a little wider?

[04:38:03]

BLZbubba:

there are a few places where it seems to choose ellipses poorly

[04:38:06]

wagnerrp:

what theme?

[04:38:33]

BLZbubba:

Blue Abstract 1.7

[04:39:07]

JoshTriplett:

On the topic of theming, where did the old "make all the fonts this much bigger" option go?

[04:39:15]

wagnerrp:

youll likely need to inform that author about it

[04:39:32]

wagnerrp:

JoshTriplett: all such things are defined strictly by the theme now

[04:39:42]

BLZbubba:

i'll bet i can figure it out, ok thanks

[04:39:59]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: So there's no way to fix too-small fonts other than creating a new theme based on the existing one?

[04:40:32]

wagnerrp:

as i understand it

[04:40:36]

JoshTriplett:

Sigh.

[04:40:43]

wagnerrp:

choose a theme designed for a smaller screen

[04:40:45]

JoshTriplett:

I'd hoped that had gotten easier in the new version, not harder.

[04:41:20]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: Suggestions? Currently using MythCenter-wide, which everyone in the family is comfortable with.

[04:42:06]

JoshTriplett:

(And which I'd previously had to hack to make the fonts a bit bigger.)

[04:42:06]

wagnerrp:

nope, dont know much in regards to theming or the UI

[04:42:19]

JoshTriplett:

To answer the earlier question: yeah, rebuilding a single program seems to fix it.

[04:42:31]

wagnerrp:

to be fair, mythcenter is really hardly a theme

[04:42:45]

wagnerrp:

its more a couple images and some xml wrapped around the engine defaults

[04:43:01]

** JoshTriplett *likes* the engine defaults, then. :) **

[04:44:36]

wagnerrp:

so do some 25% of your fellow 0.25 users

[04:44:57]

JoshTriplett:

Oh, you have statistics? Fun.

[04:45:01]

wagnerrp:

http://smolt.mythtv.org/static/stats/stats.html

[04:45:46]

** JoshTriplett guesses that the 43% running the Mythbuntu theme do so because it's the default for mythbuntu. :) **

[04:45:47]

wagnerrp:

i would expect the actual install count is significantly higher

[04:45:56]

JoshTriplett:

Oh, absolutely.

[04:45:59]

wagnerrp:

its not all that simple to enable the stats counter

[04:46:13]

** JoshTriplett would probably use arclight if it had a free license. **

[04:46:31]

wagnerrp:

you have to go exploring, and either trigger it in the frontend setup wizard, or one of the pages in the backend web server

[04:46:35]

wagnerrp:

isnt it creative commons?

[04:46:43]

JoshTriplett:

No Derivs, IIRC.

[04:46:59]

JoshTriplett:

Creative Commons, sadly, is not a sufficiently specific identifier to always mean a free license. :/

[04:47:21]

** JoshTriplett doublechecks. **

[04:47:58]

JoshTriplett:

As an aside, would you consider adding a "license" field in the theme chooser metadata?

[04:49:23]

wagnerrp:

wouldnt be a bad idea

[04:49:37]

wagnerrp:

mythweather already does something similar with the data it returns

[04:49:43]

** wagnerrp pokes Captain_Murdoch **

[04:49:54]

** wagnerrp points a few lines up **

[04:50:02]

JoshTriplett:

I assume I can't talk you into having a "FOSS themes only" policy for the theme chooser server? ;)

[04:50:14]

JoshTriplett:

I asked for a license field because that much I figured I could talk you into. :)

[04:50:57]

JoshTriplett:

(I'm also curious how the theme server interacts with the previous policy against automatic updaters in favor of distribution packagers.)

[04:51:05]

** wagnerrp is a BSD man and finds your garish GPL painful and restrictive **

[04:51:31]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: I have no objection whatsoever to the BSD license or to themes under said license. :)

[04:51:54]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: Just not a fan of proprietary licenses.

[04:52:02]

wagnerrp:

we dont do binary releases, so automatic updaters simply arent an option for us

[04:52:17]

JoshTriplett:

No, I agree with that policy entirely.

[04:52:29]

JoshTriplett:

I just wondered why the theme chooser server, rather than just telling people to package themes they want. :)

[04:52:47]

wagnerrp:

packagers are free to package whatever themes they want

[04:52:52]

JoshTriplett:

I'm always skeptical of software that tries to reinvent package management. See also Firefox.

[04:52:53]

wagnerrp:

such as mythbuntu does with their internal theme

[04:53:06]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: How do I know, when using the theme chooser, which themes I have locally?

[04:53:18]

JoshTriplett:

And how do I know that the theme chooser chose the local copy rather than downloading one?

[04:53:47]

wagnerrp:

if the theme exists locally, it will use it locally

[04:53:57]

wagnerrp:

if not, it will ask the master backend for its copy

[04:54:08]

wagnerrp:

if the master backend doesnt have a copy, it goes and downloads one

[04:54:30]

JoshTriplett:

Is there a way to tell the master backend "don't download themes, only use local copies"?

[04:55:15]

wagnerrp:

the previous behavior in the theme chooser was to only show locally available themes, and refresh against the remote list upon request

[04:55:19]

wagnerrp:

now, it always refreshes

[04:55:30]

wagnerrp:

i dont know if there is a setting to go back to the old behavior

[04:55:47]

** JoshTriplett hesitates very much to ask for any new settings. **

[04:56:08]

JoshTriplett:

Just trying to figure out how to make sure I'm using packaged bits rather than random downloaded bits.

[04:56:26]

wagnerrp:

implemented properly, such a setting would be hidden

[04:56:56]

wagnerrp:

hit 'm' and tell it to display all downloadable themes, and it does so from then on, on all frontends

[04:57:12]

wagnerrp:

hit 'm' again, and tell it to display only local ones, and it stores that behavior instead

[04:57:17]

JoshTriplett:

That makes sense.

[04:57:27]

JoshTriplett:

And any package that wanted to change the default easily could.

[04:57:47]

JoshTriplett:

On the topic of mythcommflag, if I run mythcommflag --rebuild --queue, will that queue one job per video (and thus run as many jobs in parallel as my server says it can handle)?:

[04:57:55]

wagnerrp:

yes

[04:58:30]

wagnerrp:

however note, all it is doing is a quick scan of your container structure

[04:58:33]

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[04:58:45]

wagnerrp:

the process will run close to your filesystem IO capability

[04:59:00]

JoshTriplett:

I do have two disks, though. :)

[04:59:17]

wagnerrp:

fair enough, but the jobqueue has no intelligence to balance tasks between them

[04:59:35]

JoshTriplett:

True, but it'll probably still manage to finish faster than if it runs serially.

[04:59:43]

** JoshTriplett checks how many jobs the backend is set to run at once. **

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[05:05:28]

JoshTriplett:

It's safe to have that running while continuing to use frontends, right?

[05:06:28]

wagnerrp:

more or less

[05:06:49]

JoshTriplett:

That's surprisingly un-comforting.

[05:06:49]

wagnerrp:

if youve got the jobqueue set to run at reduced priority, it will 'nice' its CPU and IO loads

[05:06:56]

wagnerrp:

so recordings and playback should get priority

[05:06:57]

JoshTriplett:

Oh, that part isn't a problem.

[05:07:16]

JoshTriplett:

I more meant "will something go horribly wrong if mythcommflag tries to replace a seek table while in use".

[05:07:26]

JoshTriplett:

The server can definitely handle the load.

[05:07:41]

Guest90201 is now known as lautriv

[05:07:43]

wagnerrp:

i dont _think_ having the seektable change mid-playback will cause any serious repercussions

[05:08:03]

JoshTriplett:

I suppose, worst case, the frontend would hose itself and need restarting. Big whoop.

[05:17:26]

wagnerrp:

well it would appear f_type is a completely bogus value in freebsd

[05:17:51]

wagnerrp:

it references an index in some internal table, built dynamically based off what filesystems are available to the kernel

[05:18:06]

wagnerrp:

using it would require cross referencing with that other table

[05:18:16]

wagnerrp:

... on the other hand MNT_LOCAL looks like it should work just fine

[05:23:19]

wagnerrp:

JoshTriplett: actually, there are a handful of keys floating about the internet

[05:23:40]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: Are you referring to the RAOPKey.rsa sha1sum I posted?

[05:23:48]

wagnerrp:

aye

[05:23:57]

JoshTriplett:

I just posted the one corresponding to the key linked in the VLC archives.

[05:24:11]

JoshTriplett:

If you want to link to a different key, feel free to add the corresponding sha1sum. :)

[05:24:12]

wagnerrp:

i know theres at least two

[05:24:22]

wagnerrp:

one came from an airport, not sure where the other one is from

[05:25:26]

JoshTriplett:

Does the one in the VLC archives work for AirPlay?

[05:25:43]

wagnerrp:

i assume so... have nothing to test it with

[05:25:52]

JoshTriplett:

Well, I'll let you know. :)

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[05:32:31]

Bob_:

I have an issue with mythtv.25 frontend on OSX. It says it wants to update the MythMusicDB to 1019 from 1017. Is that OK to do?

[05:33:15]

wagnerrp:

plugins only exist in the frontend, so only a frontend can perform a plugin schema update

[05:33:59]

Bob_:

Sweet. I was worried it was a version conflict (backend is running on F12). Thank you for the real fast response!!!

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[06:00:20]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: Where does the backend put downloaded themes?

[06:01:06]

wagnerrp:

somewhere in ~/.mythtv/

[06:02:30]

JoshTriplett:

Doesn't look like it...

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[06:14:11]

JoshTriplett:

Where did the setting for periodically fetching schedule updates go?

[06:14:16]

JoshTriplett:

Trying to turn it on.

[06:14:25]

JoshTriplett:

(It was off for my 0.22 configuration.)

[06:14:41]

wagnerrp:

should be in mythtv-setup, general

[06:15:40]

JoshTriplett:

Argh. Meaning I need to shut down the backend to change that setting?

[06:16:01]

wagnerrp:

likely not

[06:16:13]

wagnerrp:

just change it, and run 'mythutil --clearcache'

[06:16:14]

JoshTriplett:

I thought it was a bad idea to run mythtv-setup with the frontend running?

[06:16:19]

JoshTriplett:

Er, backend.

[06:16:42]

wagnerrp:

its recommended you dont, as most things you change in there require a restart the backend

[06:16:49]

wagnerrp:

and some things tuner related require the backend to be off

[06:22:04]

EmleyMoor:

How do I control mythtv with an mceusb2 remote control in Linux?

[06:22:23]

wagnerrp:

did you ever get lircd running?

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[06:26:00]

EmleyMoor:

wagnerrp: No, but it appears that it's not actually needed

[06:27:18]

wagnerrp:

you can get limited functionality through the X event system

[06:27:37]

EmleyMoor:

Right... so I do need lircd for proper use?

[06:27:56]

wagnerrp:

if you want to use all the buttons on the remote, or if you need to use the IR transmitters

[06:30:19]

JoshTriplett:

Do I need to do anything special to enable the web interface on backend-server:6544, or will it always be enabled?

[06:30:30]

JoshTriplett:

Because I seem to get nothing but "connection was reset" errors.

[06:30:32]

wagnerrp:

will be always enabled

[06:30:42]

JoshTriplett:

(After it sits and waits for a long timeout.)

[06:31:35]

wagnerrp:

is this a clustered setup, or single machine?

[06:31:41]

JoshTriplett:

Yikes, somehow two mythcommflags started for the same job at once!

[06:31:48]

JoshTriplett:

And the DB is not happy about that...

[06:31:54]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: One backend, a few frontends.

[06:32:45]

wagnerrp:

heh... its probably not happy trying to display all 600 or so of those jobs

[06:33:00]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: Heh.

[06:33:15]

JoshTriplett:

But that shouldn't affect API calls...

[06:33:23]

JoshTriplett:

I can understand it affecting attempts to fetch the main page.

[06:33:29]

wagnerrp:

no, but if you hit the status page...

[06:33:44]

JoshTriplett:

I tried to fetch the "upcoming recordings" list.

[06:33:59]

JoshTriplett:

It's possible that I'm just thrashing the disk to death...

[06:34:48]

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[06:35:04]

JoshTriplett:

...what in the world...

[06:35:06]

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[06:35:21]

JoshTriplett:

OK, I just figured out why I had two jobs running for the same ID.

[06:35:34]

JoshTriplett:

For some *insane* reason I seem to have two copies of mythbackend running.

[06:35:41]

JoshTriplett:

I *know* I didn't start two...

[06:35:45]

wagnerrp:

yeah, that would do it

[06:35:54]

** JoshTriplett really hopes his database is not utterly hosed here. **

[06:36:11]

wagnerrp:

the only thing that could be hosed is the seek table

[06:36:15]

wagnerrp:

and you can always rebuild that

[06:36:21]

JoshTriplett:

heh.

[06:36:33]

** JoshTriplett wonders which backend attempted to record the show that started 30 minutes ago. **

[06:36:59]

wagnerrp:

the both attempted

[06:37:06]

JoshTriplett:

Hopefully only one succeeded. :)

[06:37:08]

wagnerrp:

the one that started first succeeded

[06:37:13]

JoshTriplett:

Oh good.

[06:37:18]

wagnerrp:

the other one would have been locked out from access to the tuners

[06:37:30]

JoshTriplett:

I guess I'll let that finish, then kill them both and start one up.

[06:37:40]

EmleyMoor:

Hmmm... I copied the standard licrd.conf for mceusb and it causes a red "failed!" to appear when I try to start lircd

[06:39:15]

** wagnerrp heads to bed **

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EmleyMoor:

Ah, sorted that...

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[06:44:59]

JoshTriplett:

wagnerrp: Thanks for all the help.

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EmleyMoor:

Without lircd running, evtest can "see" every button on the control...

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EmleyMoor:

Right – mythtv will require lircd though...

[06:59:37]

[R]:

it doesnt require it "per se"

[07:01:13]

EmleyMoor:

[R]: But it needs it to work with this remote control? I could do with some help getting it to actually work

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[07:03:26]

EmleyMoor:

I can't see how to get them working together

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[07:10:04]

dekarl:

wagnerrp: the key on the vlc list works like a charm. I tested it with audio from a borrowed phone. Putting it in the right place is a bit tricky on mythbuntu with mythtv running as 'mythtv' but the frontend runs as whatever user is logged in (a 'desktop-user' gets created at installation)

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[07:14:46]

dekarl:

EmleyMoor: I've used inputlirc in the past. The issue is that the remote keys are mapped to key point above 0xff which doesnt work well with X. You can also use eventlircd, see http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /332423.html

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[07:20:06]

EmleyMoor:

dekarl: Can't find code for that.

[07:20:30]

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[07:20:50]

EmleyMoor:

... except perhaps by svn

[07:21:20]

dekarl:

EmleyMoor: on what operating system are you? I installed from packages IIRC

[07:21:50]

EmleyMoor:

Debian

[07:22:39]

EmleyMoor:

inputlirc is in it...

[07:22:47]

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[07:22:57]

dekarl:

looks good http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=in . . . ;section=all

[07:23:05]

EmleyMoor:

Will try it

[07:23:33]

EmleyMoor:

I may still find my problem is actually the interface between that and mythtv

[07:23:45]

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[07:24:41]

EmleyMoor:

Is it meant to replace or supplement lirc?

[07:24:59]

dekarl:

inputlirc replaces lirc*d*

[07:25:14]

EmleyMoor:

Right...

[07:25:28]

dekarl:

you can still use the client tools like irw, etc.

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EmleyMoor:

My question is still "how do I get mythtv to take notice?"

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[07:39:44]

dekarl:

EmleyMoor: I'm not sure I understand, mythfrontend will always look for lirc methinks... (walks over to the frontend to look) you can configure where it looks for the lircd socket though (generel frontend setup)

[07:39:44]

dekarl:

I'll test it

[07:40:40]

EmleyMoor:

It may well look, but if it does, it doesn't take any notice

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EmleyMoor:

My OSD does not contain channels' callsigns – why would that be and how do I fix?

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[08:00:34]

dekarl:

EmleyMoor: just tried it. but I'm not sure that the keys events I got in the frontend key mapping editor came via LIRC as some keys didn't get through :( (likely those >0xff so it might not be using LIRC at all) But when I setup lircd (installed it to look into irw) I noticed that it puts it socket under /var/run while mythtv looks into /dev

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[08:03:27]

EmleyMoor:

I really don't mind what I have to do, and with what, but I would like to get the remote control working

[08:03:56]

EmleyMoor:

As for callsigns, they, or at least their middles, are on the guide

[08:06:07]

EmleyMoor:

Can mythtv do "TV in a window"?

[08:09:42]

EmleyMoor:

Is a "LIRC keypress application" required?

[08:11:15]

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[08:13:53]

dekarl:

EmleyMoor: soo, I just setup the remote with MythbuntuControlCenter (worked like a charm, just some clicks) I'm not sure there is something similar with the debian packages though :(

[08:14:30]

dekarl:

EmleyMoor: you need either LIRC or a custom IR-to-keycode-table to get around a limitation in X

[08:15:36]

dekarl:

MythTV can do picture-in-picture or picture-in-guide if thats what you mean. You can also start the frontend with a size smaller than your screen, but I don't think you can resize it etc.

[08:17:46]

EmleyMoor:

dekarl: Ah – frontend smller than screen sounds interesting

[08:18:15]

EmleyMoor:

(basically sometimes I want the TV on in one corner while I IRC/browse etc...

[08:19:02]

dekarl:

you can start it like "mythfrontend -geometry 1024x576" or similar

[08:23:14]

** dekarl wanders off to make breakfast **

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[08:33:10]

** EmleyMoor has added his old analog card and can now get the Sky box RF **

[08:35:31]

EmleyMoor:

I want the composite signal too – but haven't sorted that yet

[08:36:14]

EmleyMoor:

Ah, there it is

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[12:26:58]

iliis:

hello there! Is there a nice fellow who can help me getting mythtv to run with a sundtek mediapro analog tv stick? the hardware works: I have no trouble watching TV with tvtime, vlc et al. Only MythTV 0.25 (Mythbuntu 11.10) is stubborn as hell and is completely unable to scan for channels and display or record them.

[12:28:00]

dinamic:

iliis, changing the timeout might help

[12:28:39]

dinamic:

iliis, i had to do this on one of my usb dvbt recievers

[12:28:53]

iliis:

ok, let's try that. (it's analog tough)

[12:28:57]

dinamic:

oh wait

[12:28:59]

dinamic:

yea

[12:29:02]

dinamic:

i just noticed

[12:29:15]

dinamic:

then im unsure how to come around that

[12:29:30]

dinamic:

it was too long time ago i used an analog tuner

[12:29:42]

iliis:

does analog tv even work with the current mythtv version? i've heard there were some troubles using 0.23/0.24.

[12:30:40]

russell5:

i remember on .23 scanning for channels with analog would freeze for me. but not sure if that still is the case

[12:31:22]

iliis:

well, it actually goes trough the channels but can't find any

[12:32:31]

iliis:

I've tried various settings (trying ALL channels, manually entering them, changing the device-type from V4L to others, etc.), but to no avail.

[12:35:01]

sphery:

analog should work with 0.25

[12:35:15]

sphery:

that said, analog scanning may not work at all

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[12:36:50]

sphery:

iliis: you can always find a list of what channels are available in your area and configure them manually--where you must specify either the frequency name (E2 or S01 or whatever) or the frequency in kHz as the frequency ID

[12:37:09]

sphery:

freq id is on the 2nd page of the channel editor in mythtv-setup

[12:37:15]

iliis:

ok. I've entered a channel manually by it's frequency. mythbackend reports the following when trying to watch it:

[12:37:22]

sphery:

(2nd page of the per-channel editor, that is... so after you select or create a new channel)

[12:37:23]

iliis:

2012-04–22 14:35:47.576084 E V4LChannel(/dev/video0): SetInputAndFormat(1, PAL) while disabling streaming (v4l v2) eno: Success (0)

[12:37:26]

iliis:

2012-04–22 14:35:48.654922 E V4LChannel(/dev/video0): SetInputAndFormat(1, PAL) while disabling streaming (v4l v2) eno: Success (0)

[12:37:29]

iliis:

2012-04–22 14:35:49.686550 E V4LChannel(/dev/video0): SetInputAndFormat() failed

[12:37:32]

iliis:

2012-04–22 14:35:49.686586 E TVRec(4): Failed to set channel to 266250. Reverting to kState_None

[12:38:28]

iliis:

mythfrontend: GetEntryAt(-1) failed. [...] EntryToProgram(...) failed to get pginfo

[12:38:43]

iliis:

googling for that didn't help me much

[12:39:31]

iliis:

(freqid is acually on the third page on my mythtv-setup)

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[13:01:25]

k-man:

is there a guide to upgrading to .25 somewhere?

[13:08:17]

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[13:12:07]

iliis:

k-man, I haven't seen any for .25. On which system are you?

[13:12:28]

k-man:

iliis, debian, but i'm installing from source

[13:13:22]

iliis:

ok, so something like make uninstall and then compiling and installing the new version doesn't work?

[13:13:42]

k-man:

iliis, i'm about to find out :)

[13:13:48]

** k-man drums fingers **

[13:13:49]

iliis:

^^

[13:14:30]

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[13:15:25]

k-man:

make[1]: *** No rule to make target `libavcodec/x86/dsputil_h264_template_mmx.c', needed by `libavcodec/x86/dsputil_mmx.o'. Stop.

[13:15:38]

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[13:16:36]

k-man:

hmm

[13:17:33]

k-man:

nm, fixed it i think

[13:17:42]

iliis:

ok. how?

[13:17:48]

k-man:

make clean

[13:17:58]

iliis:

i was just going to suggest that ;)

[13:17:59]

k-man:

forgot to do that first

[13:20:12]

** iliis is afk **

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[13:24:26]

synapse:

I'm running ubuntu/2.6.x kernel, when I run mythtv-setup or grep for logs, it doesn't show the device number. Any ideas?

[13:25:28]

synapse:

The DVB Device Number is empty when I try to change it

[13:26:56]

lis0r:

meh, this is aggravating :( video buffering fails every half hour or so :( massively worse than .24 :(

[13:28:18]

iliis:

:r

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[13:29:32]

TheAsp:

lis0r, using what?

[13:31:35]

lis0r:

separate backend (DVB-T tuners) and frontend (VDPAU) over powerline ethernet, both running ubuntu, using the mythbuntu packages (2:0.25.0+fixes.20120421.1a671d0–0ubuntu0mythbuntu2)

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[14:20:40]

rooter7:

Myth 0.24-fixes: Anyone know why sound would start to garble, so hardly intelligible? Does this for about 20% of shows, and then seems to come out of it somehow, over and over.

[14:20:57]

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[14:48:54]

rooter7:

Nothing?

[14:50:08]

uzf:

Does anyone know why I am not able to select a DVB device number (I.e., 0 or 1) in mythtv-setup? It appears that kernel modules are loaded, but I don't have anything but "saa7146: register extension 'dvb'" when my system boots.

[14:54:45]

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[14:55:36]

jams:

lis0r- is that with live tv?

[15:02:58]

lis0r:

jams: yes

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[15:35:21]

jams:

lis0r- every 1/2 might be the transition point between shows. It's known and is being worked on. The funny thing is that it doesn't affect everybody

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[16:28:28]

uzf:

OK, I solved the mysterious problem I was having by swapping PCI slots for the card. Does anyone know how to configure the transponders for channels like FOX/ABC/CBS (Free)?

[16:30:06]

wagnerrp:

you mean scan for channels?

[16:32:19]

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[16:34:59]

uzf:

yeah, scan for channels

[16:35:16]

wagnerrp:

just walk through steps 2–4 in mythtv-setup

[16:35:17]

uzf:

I think I just need to add the frequency the transponder is on, right?

[16:35:21]

wagnerrp:

add the tuner card

[16:35:27]

uzf:

I got the tuner card added

[16:35:29]

wagnerrp:

add a video source

[16:35:41]

uzf:

done (EIT)

[16:35:44]

wagnerrp:

map the new video source to your tuner card(s)

[16:35:49]

uzf:

already done

[16:36:03]

wagnerrp:

scan for channels, you want US broadcast, 8vsb

[16:36:21]

uzf:

it says error invalid for parms when I try to scan, probably because I dont have any frequency defined

[16:36:36]

wagnerrp:

you dont need to define any frequencies, mythtv has its own channel map

[16:36:49]

wagnerrp:

just select the broadcast channel table, and 8vsb modulation

[16:37:04]

wagnerrp:

also, you will likely want to sign up for a schedules direct account

[16:37:20]

wagnerrp:

EIT data in the US amounts to somewhere between 12-hours (FCC minimum) and a few days

[16:37:34]

wagnerrp:

and is often incomplete, or outright garbage

[16:39:20]

uzf:

I dont think I have a channel table anywhere

[16:39:28]

wagnerrp:

it is compiled into mythtv

[16:42:10]

uzf:

How do you do a scan for channels then?

[16:42:24]

uzf:

I dont see that on the HOWTO

[16:42:25]

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[16:42:50]

uzf:

I click scan for channels and it wants me to fill out the frequency/modulation, etc.. (I am using dvb-s)

[16:43:26]

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[16:43:43]

wagnerrp:

in mythtv-setup, input connections (looks like its actually option 5)

[16:43:56]

wagnerrp:

once you map the input to a video source, the "scan for channels" option should be available

[16:44:27]

uzf:

it is, but when you do a scan, you select tuned frequency, import channels.conf, or scan all transponders

[16:44:37]

uzf:

and it tosses an error saying the params aren't right

[16:44:48]

wagnerrp:

scan for "TV", a "Full Scan", "Unencypted Only", "Broadcast" frequency table, and "Terrestrial (8-VSB)" modulation

[16:45:01]

uzf:

I'm not using DVB-T

[16:45:03]

Unguided:

wagnerrp: For the jail you sent me, can u please give me the details of it again

[16:45:06]

uzf:

its DVB-S

[16:45:30]

uzf:

I don't have an 8-VSB option anywhere

[16:45:33]

wagnerrp:

DVB-S? youve got one of those big 6' dishes in your back yard?

[16:45:51]

wagnerrp:

Unguided: what details do you want?

[16:45:52]

uzf:

no, I have a regular tiny dish that came with the house

[16:46:03]

uzf:

the 6' dishes are for picking up stuff like KU band

[16:46:07]

wagnerrp:

you mean you have a dish designed for the likes of dish network or directtv?

[16:46:23]

uzf:

yes, I believe it's pointed at a dishnet transponder

[16:46:52]

uzf:

I think I need lyngsat values

[16:46:59]

wagnerrp:

then you need a dishnet receiver, and you need an analog capture card for mythtv to record off of it, and you need an IR blaster or something else to allow mythtv to control it

[16:47:19]

uzf:

nah, you don't, you can get FTA channels from those satellites

[16:47:36]

uzf:

Ive done this before, I just forgot how

[16:48:09]

uzf:

card has an IR reciever (uses lirc) with a remote control if I want

[16:48:22]

wagnerrp:

thats outside my area of knowledge

[16:48:30]

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[16:48:52]

uzf:

ok

[16:48:55]

wagnerrp:

you said -7146... i thought that was a misspelling of -7164, which is a common chipset for broadcast (8-VSB) and digital cable (QAM)

[16:49:43]

wagnerrp:

its fairly uncommon to see US users bother with FTA satellite

[16:49:49]

wagnerrp:

not a whole lot to use up there

[16:49:58]

wagnerrp:

for the amount of hassle you go through

[16:50:17]

Unguided:

wagnerrp: U told me what branch it was and what I had to do to get it running and I forgot all that information. You sent it to me to set upi on my freenas box but I have decided to go pc bsd server box. Im sorry to ask you again

[16:50:54]

wagnerrp:

what is installed on there currently is an old copy of 0.25pre, from maybe early february

[16:51:03]

wagnerrp:

it _should_ run directly

[16:51:13]

wagnerrp:

but would be better if replaced by 0.25 or 0.26pre

[16:51:30]

wagnerrp:

simple as cloning a new checkout, compiling, and installing over top of it

[16:51:41]

wagnerrp:

all the necessary pre-reqs should be already installed

[16:51:59]

wagnerrp:

and check the buildbot system on trac for details on the configure

[16:52:31]

wagnerrp:

note, youll have to set "setenv COMPILER_PATH /usr/local/bin" to get through some of the ASM in the FFMPEG clone

[16:53:16]

uzf:

it is uncommon, but when you have a DVB-s card and dish, you want it to work

[16:53:24]

uzf:

I dont have cable tv or antenna

[17:00:26]

Unguided:

wagnerrp: Thank you so much for the information and again for all your help

[17:00:43]

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[17:01:17]

wagnerrp:

Unguided: if i might ask, what was wrong with freenas?

[17:01:30]

wagnerrp:

just not enough information on how to tinker for someone new to bsd?

[17:02:14]

wagnerrp:

and if this is a dedicated, headless server, why pcbsd (freebsd optimized for easy-to-manage desktop) rather than freebsd itself?

[17:02:20]

wagnerrp:

pc-bsd is like the ubuntu of bsds

[17:04:37]

Unguided:

No. I have other boxes running and found out that I could consolidate them all onto one machine with the advantages of zfs. I went pcbsd b/c it has the gui available to get me up and running while I learn to use the command line. I was gonna set up a zentyal server with virtualbox and this is the better way to go IMO

[17:05:43]

wagnerrp:

ah, i dont think ive run a BSD "desktop" in maybe 6–7 years

[17:06:09]

wagnerrp:

i briefly tinkered with it on my laptop, before getting fed up with the pain of wireless on freebsd, and switched to gentoo

[17:08:21]

Unguided:

wagnerrp: I guess the answer is yes and no. Its not that Im opposed to learning the command line its just that I didnt want to learn it while screwing up my server. I want to run a "go to" box for all new things I may come up with. I looked at proxmox but taking your advice, decided it was better to run on the raw hardware rather than multiple virt boxes

[17:08:50]

Unguided:

*virt machines

[17:09:16]

wagnerrp:

IMHO, if you dont absolutely need to run virtual machines, dont

[17:09:46]

Unguided:

I learned that from you and it seems the jail system would be better

[17:09:48]

wagnerrp:

most people do either because there arent really any convenient tools for managing container formats, or just because they simply dont know otherwise

[17:11:52]

wagnerrp:

the are some tools that aid their us, but they dont come anywhere close to the might behind the virtualization giants

[17:13:22]

Unguided:

Right. The disadvantage is that you have to use virtualbox on bsd if u want to run say windows but with proxmox you could run them all b/c proxmox is the op sys

[17:13:59]

Unguided:

and the various hardware issues that may come up as well. I do listen when you speak

[17:14:55]

wagnerrp:

most people ignore me as a raving lunatic... :)

[17:15:18]

wagnerrp:

"how dare you speak ill of virtualization! surely a whole industry cant be wrong!"

[17:15:59]

Unguided:

You have been doing this a long time and knowledge is power. If i want knowledge that I should listen to those with experience

[17:16:22]

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[17:16:55]

wagnerrp:

on the other hand, i could just have a bias against virtualization, as it has poor hostos support for freebsd

[17:18:09]

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[17:20:02]

Unguided:

could be but that is a chance I take. Im trusting that you wouldnt stear me wrong and you havent so far sooo.

[17:20:30]

wagnerrp:

well its the way i have my stuff configured, and works well enough for me anyway....

[17:22:18]

Unguided:

I understand. you have been pt enough with me. most people dont take that kind of time and dismiss you as being an idiot. Im not an idiot. just trying to get into a whole new world.

[17:23:21]

Unguided:

Plus all the choices. Im like a little kid in the candy store. I want to try them all.

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[17:38:29]

Unguided:

Take care all. Family time.

[17:38:41]

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[17:49:05]

jm|laptop:

hello :)

[17:49:23]

jm|laptop:

some of my recordings have a yellow blob and yellow text in the Record Programs screens. What does this mean, please?

[17:49:42]

wagnerrp:

depends on the theme

[17:49:52]

wagnerrp:

there is no standard meaning for "yellow"

[17:50:02]

wagnerrp:

these are "upcoming recordings?"

[17:50:11]

jm|laptop:

MythCenter-wide

[17:50:41]

wagnerrp:

my guess, it indicates some form of conflict between multiple upcoming recordings

[17:51:01]

wagnerrp:

the yellow text should tell you specifically what is wrong

[17:51:15]

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[17:53:12]

jm|laptop:

ah

[17:53:17]

jm|laptop:

they are corrupt

[17:53:53]

jm|laptop:

I see. My tuners seem to have problems with SD or radio

[17:53:57]

wagnerrp:

oh, the "watch recordings" screen

[17:54:02]

jm|laptop:

yes

[17:54:21]

jm|laptop:

seems I need a new card/dongle for SD stuff :/

[17:54:23]

wagnerrp:

yeah, there were some additions to 0.25 that check for problems in recordings

[17:54:36]

wagnerrp:

too many problems and it will fail outright, marking for re-record

[17:54:38]

jm|laptop:

the 290e are great for DVB-T2 but fail for SD/radio

[17:54:47]

wagnerrp:

just some, and it will indicate it has issues

[17:54:54]

jm|laptop:

and my Hauppauge WinTV 'Diversity' things fall over too much

[17:55:16]

jm|laptop:

wagnerrp: these are just really choppy and the sound comes and goes, upsetting the AV.

[17:55:30]

jm|laptop:

well I'm pleased we cleared that up. Thank you :)

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[18:53:54]

uh992k:

Good evening!

[18:54:17]

uh992k:

Is someone here who could help me with a smaaaall mythtv problem?

[18:54:30]

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[18:56:43]

uh992k:

It's about editing cut points in my recordings ... MythTV automatically jumps over cut-areas in recording playback mode. Is it possible to disable this behaviour?

[18:57:49]

EmleyMoor:

How can I remove all trace of a capture card in mythtv?

[18:58:39]

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[19:00:35]

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[19:09:17]

justinh:

press D in the capture card list

[19:09:32]

justinh:

D stands for DELETE. The Del key likely works too

[19:10:22]

justinh:

uh992k: nope. you want cuts, mythtv goes over the cuts. simples

[19:10:42]

justinh:

uh992k: you can of course delete the cutlist ;-)

[19:11:14]

wagnerrp:

uh992k: the skiplist is the one automatically generated by the commercial detection task

[19:11:19]

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[19:11:30]

wagnerrp:

you have the option of ignoring, noticing, or obeying the skiplist

[19:11:43]

wagnerrp:

the cutlist is the one you manually specify yourself, and it is always obeyed absolutely

[19:13:32]

Twiggy2cents:

wagnerrp, I have look up metadata enabled for my old rules but it doesnt look it up. My new rules do. Any ideas?

[19:13:56]

Twiggy2cents:

Nvm I lied

[19:14:00]

Twiggy2cents:

I figured out my problem

[19:16:21]

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[19:18:09]

uh992k:

wagnerrp: k, thx ... Obviously that's the reason why I didn't find any solutions for my problem via g**gle :)

[19:18:39]

wagnerrp:

google is a curse word?

[19:18:47]

RagingMind:

yes

[19:19:02]

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[19:19:06]

uh992k:

I've used linux VDR for a couple of years and the cut editor works different ... I'll have to learn this

[19:19:43]

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[19:23:16]

justinh:

VDR eh? heh

[19:24:31]

wagnerrp:

"a study by nasa release april 2nd claims a robotic mission could capture a 500 ton asteroid and bring it to orbit the moon for $2.6 billion"

[19:24:45]

** wagnerrp thinks they delayed a day for the same reason we were shooting for an april 2nd release **

[19:26:50]

justinh:

heh. interesting, but all the same.. why?

[19:27:48]

wagnerrp:

well, if youre 400M miles out, and have a huge facility already put together

[19:28:10]

wagnerrp:

its easier to mine your raw resources in place, rather than try to ship new parts from earth

[19:28:57]

wagnerrp:

of course if youre already in orbit around the moon, the same amount facility could simply be built on the moon, mine the moon, and orbit the stuff for practically nothing on a magnetic launch rail

[19:29:22]

wagnerrp:

so yes... there is no reason to do it other than to say "we did it", and potentially the experience in specifically how to do it

[19:29:37]

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[19:29:57]

wagnerrp:

think of it like going to the moon

[19:30:07]

justinh:

oo, so a bit 'meh' then

[19:30:10]

justinh:

;-)

[19:30:12]

wagnerrp:

we didnt get anything out of picking up a few tons of rocks from the moon

[19:30:29]

wagnerrp:

but we got a whole crapton of stuff developing the tech to pick up those few tons of rocks from the moon

[19:32:11]

EvilGuru:

wagnerrp: In line with 'teaching the controversy' I hasten to point out that it is only /alleged/ we want to the moon

[19:32:16]

EvilGuru:

*went

[19:33:16]

EvilGuru:

The only thing of remote commercial value on the moon is He-3, but we are still at least 50 years away from being able to need/use it commercially

[19:34:00]

wagnerrp:

youre right, going to the moon was all a coverup for the the NSA-led stellar teleportation project obama was part of during his trips to mars

[19:34:44]

wagnerrp:

EvilGuru: companies want satellites, and are going to continue to want more satellites

[19:34:47]

justinh:

it must be true. I read it on davidicke.com

[19:35:30]

wagnerrp:

if you get a manufacturing facility set up on the moon, it is cheaper to build stuff on the moon, catapult it into ETO, and use aerocapture to put it into LEO, than to build and launch it from Earth

[19:35:48]

wagnerrp:

the problem is the hundreds of billions needed to set up such a facility in the first place

[19:36:06]

wagnerrp:

but once its done, youve got nearly all the raw materials you need to use that as a stepping stone for the rest of space

[19:36:43]

wagnerrp:

justinh: is that the crackpot who thought that one up?

[19:36:57]

wagnerrp:

i recall someone making fun of such a theory years ago, but i dont remember where it was

[19:37:36]

justinh:

wagnerrp: he's a big conspiracy nut. I don't bother looking into who makes all the crackpot stuff up

[19:37:59]

EvilGuru:

It isn't a conspiracy until it has attempted to silence Alex Jones

[19:38:41]

justinh:

who's alex jones?

[19:38:49]

justinh:

the choir singer? ;-)

[19:39:10]

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[19:41:06]

EvilGuru:

justinh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlkAjKk_4f8&feature=related enjoy

[19:42:21]

justinh:

oh HIM. I know his voice. he's a nut

[19:43:04]

EvilGuru:

Fluoride water, check; vaccines, check; 911 was an inside job, check; new world order, check, bankers are evil, check; mind control, check

[19:43:17]

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[19:43:18]

justinh:

hahaha I just read the word 'nut' back & thought I'd typed something else

[19:43:49]

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[19:44:36]

justinh:

bankers are evil, in the sense they're only in it for themselves. But aren't we all?

[19:45:07]

EvilGuru:

justinh: There is a difference between that and accusing them of putting poision in the water supply

[19:45:18]

wagnerrp:

bankers arent evil, just stupid

[19:45:53]

wagnerrp:

they saw an opportunity for profit, gambled, and completely failed to recognize the economic repercussions

[19:45:56]

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[19:46:39]

wagnerrp:

so they lose and take with them the whole concept of credit

[19:46:54]

justinh:

who's 'them' ? apart from everybody. Including those giant ants

[19:46:56]

wagnerrp:

except we cant afford to lose the credit system, so we bankroll them to keep them afloat

[19:47:16]

** justinh adjusts his tin-foil hat **

[19:47:33]

wagnerrp:

"them" being the banks that over-extended their loans

[19:47:51]

wagnerrp:

giving too many at too low cost, to people who had no ability to pay them back

[19:48:03]

EvilGuru:

Most of the banks just lent money to people with poor credit scores so that they could securitize the loans and sell them on soon after

[19:48:20]

EvilGuru:

So it really did not matter if they loans went bad as they had no intention of holding them on their balance sheet

[19:49:11]

wagnerrp:

EvilGuru: somewhere, someone is stuck with the bill, and so they're stupid for holding onto a bad loan

[19:50:00]

EvilGuru:

wagnerrp: Right, but the (flawed) assumption was that as house prices were going up that you could simply foreclose and since the property had gone up in value you'd be fine

[19:50:18]

EvilGuru:

Problem came when the housing bubble burst all over the country at the same time

[19:50:23]

wagnerrp:

yes, and that was a stupid assumption

[19:50:34]

wagnerrp:

made by someone with no training in large scale economics

[19:50:37]

EvilGuru:

No one had expected that, localized bubbles sure, but big time bubbles

[19:50:48]

wagnerrp:

sure they did, plenty of people expected that

[19:51:06]

wagnerrp:

the WSJ had been warning people for several years this was going to happen

[19:51:09]

wagnerrp:

and sure enough...

[19:52:11]

wagnerrp:

everything is a bubble, you make a quick buck and get out before it collapses

[19:52:23]

wagnerrp:

only too many people fell for it, and didnt know when to get out

[19:52:54]

EvilGuru:

What I do take issue with is the fact that a 2pc move in asset prices could bankrupt many of the largest lenders

[19:53:59]

wagnerrp:

it has to do with a concept called the "reserve ratio"

[19:54:28]

wagnerrp:

you loan money out, people spend it somewhere, and those people deposit it back in, which you then loan back out

[19:54:59]

wagnerrp:

the closer your reserve ratio is to 1, the more of that deposit you loan back out, and the more money you can make

[19:55:23]

wagnerrp:

the trouble is, the higher the reserve ratio, the more dangerous it is should anyone default on those loans

[19:55:51]

wagnerrp:

as you get into a problem where you have no more cash flow to make up the loss, someone tries to pull their deposit, and there is nothing left

[19:56:02]

wagnerrp:

when that happens, the whole house of cards collapses

[19:57:11]

wagnerrp:

they ran it too high, with too high risk of loans, and the whole thing cascaded down

[19:58:26]

wagnerrp:

there was no malice, just people being stupid and over-extending themselves

[20:02:33]

justinh:

being greedy & unthinking isn't malicious. nobody said it was

[20:02:57]

wagnerrp:

sure, conspiracy theorists do

[20:03:35]

wagnerrp:

surely the economy couldnt actually be that fragile, someone must have engineered this failure...

[20:03:59]

EvilGuru:

and along comes the new world order

[20:05:03]

justinh:

well that's just another bunch of people looking after #1 too

[20:05:03]

** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/1 **

[20:05:13]

** justinh laugsh **

[20:05:18]

justinh:

laughs, even

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[20:55:17]

cyclicflux:

Whats kracka-lackn yall

[20:55:41]

cyclicflux:

I have a question for the ages, with regards to partitioning external hard-drive, 2TB WD

[20:55:47]

cyclicflux:

Im sorry 3-TB.

[20:56:17]

cyclicflux:

So here it goes. Use MythTV on my one 2-yr old powerbox.

[20:57:41]

cyclicflux:

Now I partitioned the drive with XFS spanning the entire drive, then with three FAT32 partitions, enclosed. It works on MythTV, it works on Windows, it doesn't however work on my SAMSUNG when directly plugged in, and I used a scheme that was reminiscent to the mythTV setup.

[20:58:10]

wagnerrp:

huh?

[20:58:14]

cyclicflux:

Do I/can I with XFS to get the partitions to show up, mark them w/primary flags, so it is automatically mounted?

[20:58:24]

wagnerrp:

if XFS takes up the whole drive, how do you have fat32 anywhere on there

[20:58:39]

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[20:58:48]

cyclicflux:

wagnerrp, I put them inside the XFS container.

[20:59:04]

wagnerrp:

im not understanding

[20:59:09]

[R]:

xfs isnt' a container

[20:59:11]

[R]:

its a filesystemj

[20:59:33]

cyclicflux:

R, your right. I describe it as a container for the entire diks.

[20:59:42]

cyclicflux:

lol!!! My apologies all.

[20:59:54]

wagnerrp:

but you cant "contain" FAT32 partitions in an XFS partition

[21:00:12]

cyclicflux:

wagnerrp, let me show you. hahahahaha.

[21:00:20]

wagnerrp:

at best, you could create a large file, loopback mount it as a disk, and partition the file as FAT32 within the XFS partition

[21:00:30]

wagnerrp:

but then such a thing would not be accessible to a windows machine

[21:00:42]

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[21:00:47]

wagnerrp:

s/partition/format/

[21:00:58]

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[21:01:07]

cyclicflux:

http://pastebin.me/422a215da4baed1b1737a40ed001cc5e

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[21:01:38]

wagnerrp:

its entirely possible your samsung TV will _never_ be able to use your 3TB disk

[21:01:53]

cyclicflux:

thats it precisely in a nutshell. This is my main media drive for mythTV, and it needs to be universal because it is occasionally moved between the TV, and the Windows computer.

[21:02:02]

wagnerrp:

traditional BIOS/MBR partitioning only supports up to 2TB disks

[21:02:19]

wagnerrp:

while anything larger requires the use of the newer GPT format

[21:02:26]

cyclicflux:

wagnerrp, it has before, and the Windows system has. However, I believe it was formatted via vFAT

[21:02:28]

wagnerrp:

which may not be supported by your television

[21:02:44]

cyclicflux:

But it too had XFS.

[21:03:21]

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[21:03:40]

wagnerrp:

wait, when you see it list an 'extended' partition, you dont think thats talking about XFS do you?

[21:04:42]

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[21:05:14]

SpaceBass:

hey folks, anyone using MythExport on ubuntu? I keep getting an error that preset 'slowfirstpass' not found

[21:05:26]

SpaceBass:

I've compiled x264 and ffmpeg from source

[21:05:31]

wagnerrp:

cyclicflux: i see nothing here to indicate youre using XFS for anything

[21:06:02]

wagnerrp:

SpaceBass: mythexport is only available on ubuntu, you might find someone here who uses it, but you might have better luck in #ubuntu-mythtv

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[21:14:57]

cyclicflux:

wagnerrp, your looking at my pastebin?

[21:15:19]

wagnerrp:

yes, i see no mention of XFS

[21:15:39]

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[21:15:54]

cyclicflux:

wagnerrp, line15

[21:16:32]

cyclicflux:

join #ubuntu-mythtv

[21:16:58]

wagnerrp:

cyclicflux: i was telling the other guy, for mythexport, to try that other channel

[21:17:00]

wagnerrp:

not you

[21:17:24]

wagnerrp:

line 15... "Extended Partition"... not XFS

[21:19:53]

SpaceBass:

wagnerrp, thanks, I'll check it out

[21:21:01]

EmleyMoor:

I'm trying to scan for channels and I know that one particular multiplex is being missed. I am on a temporary antenna that is probably not set up to get the best out of that channel. Is there anything I can do to check strength and quality of that particular multiplex before I scan?

[21:25:18]

EmleyMoor:

(or any way I could try to manually add it?)

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[21:33:50]

uopjohnson:

I'm taking my first crack at the Services API, specifically I'm trying to play video on a fronted out of the library. It looks like what I'm looking for is Frontend/SendAction

[21:34:16]

uopjohnson:

But I'm not sure what action to send to play a specific file

[21:34:37]

uopjohnson:

I found HANDLEMEDIA, but I don't know what to send to choose what media to handle.

[21:35:00]

EmleyMoor:

I'mm having my first go at recording tonight. Am I right in thinking that recordings, though set up by the frontend, are actually done by the backend?

[21:35:19]

wagnerrp:

EmleyMoor: correct... backend records, frontend plays

[21:35:51]

wagnerrp:

uopjohnson: it does not appear there is any action yet to play a specific file

[21:35:59]

wagnerrp:

see Frontend/GetActionList

[21:36:04]

EmleyMoor:

I just hope our "new" antenna is back on tomorrow

[21:36:26]

uopjohnson:

Yes – I found that, thats where I ended up with HANDLEMEDIA,

[21:36:53]

wagnerrp:

oh, i guess the list on the wiki is out of date, or otherwise truncated

[21:37:14]

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[21:37:15]

uopjohnson:

The only reason I think there must be something it the demo videos of the Torc for iOS app that have been floating around that use the API and play media on a fronted, maybe I can send that dev a message

[21:37:34]

wagnerrp:

hang on a second

[21:40:10]

wagnerrp:

uopjohnson: check out the wsdl sheep for the frontend service

[21:40:27]

wagnerrp:

it should list separate PlayRecording(chanid, starttime) and PlayVideo(id) methods

[21:41:12]

uopjohnson:

I wasn't able to get wsdl for frontend, the connection keeps dying on me.

[21:41:21]

uopjohnson:

What URI did you use to get that?

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[21:42:33]

wagnerrp:

http://code.mythtv.org/trac/browser/mythtv/my . . . a72b6945#L23

[21:43:52]

uopjohnson:

ah – ok, I was looking at http://backend:6544/Video/wsdl – which has definitions for the services, but not the fronted ones

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[21:44:13]

wagnerrp:

right, you need to look at the frontend web server for the frontend wsdl definitions

[21:44:27]

wagnerrp:

try http://frontend:6547/Frontend/wsdl

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[21:46:56]

uopjohnson:

that has just been giving me a blank page. I haven't dug into why. I figured it just wasn't available but if others are able to see something there then I will dig into that and that should solve my problem

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[21:52:54]

uopjohnson:

HA!

[21:53:00]

uopjohnson:

PlayVideo did it

[21:53:23]

uopjohnson:

Just had to get the ID right. Thanks!

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[22:20:29]

ska:

We want to buy a samsung 1080i led tv and drive it with a linux mythtv or similar box. Can someone recommend a decent box that can do this? I;m not opposed to building a box, but I'd prefer to get a bare-bones and add hd/mem to it .

[22:21:17]

wagnerrp:

no you dont, and they dont exist

[22:23:16]

wagnerrp:

ska: 1080i televisions havent been built in a decade, and were generally old tube sets

[22:23:27]

wagnerrp:

you cant find them any longer

[22:23:50]

wagnerrp:

you can find tvs that claim 720p and 1080i support, but in actuality they are rarely either of those resolutions

[22:24:04]

ska:

sorry.. 1080p

[22:24:14]

wagnerrp:

they accept both signals, but are some funky internal resolution like 1366x768, and scale the input resolution

[22:24:32]

wagnerrp:

as for LED TVs, you only find those in things like jumbotrons

[22:25:11]

wagnerrp:

sony is developing their crystal LED displays, and other manufacturers are developing OLED displays, but neither have made it to market

[22:25:45]

wagnerrp:

when you see samsung selling an LED TV, its just a standard LCD TV, but with LEDs backlighting the screen rather than the more traditional CCFL tubes

[22:26:47]

wagnerrp:

could you give some more information on what you want this box to accomplish?

[22:27:36]

wagnerrp:

i.e. how much storage, how many tuners, etc...

[22:28:05]

ska:

wagnerrp: right now we use a PC to watch most content, most of it Youtube and 1channel. We'd like to do that. Storage is not a problem as I can easily add that, but I mainly worry about the HDMI ports, Video card resolution, etc.

[22:28:44]

wagnerrp:

well you can add storage if you have the room for it

[22:28:46]

ska:

wagnerrp: I intend to use Ubuntu or some flavor of Linux

[22:28:56]

wagnerrp:

usually when you want something next to your tv, you want something small

[22:29:02]

wagnerrp:

and small means limited room for expansion

[22:29:06]

ska:

wagnerrp: true, good point.

[22:30:32]

wagnerrp:

some people stick a PC in another room, or on another floor, and run hdmi/usb to the tv remotely, meaning there is no box to see

[22:30:47]

wagnerrp:

others have a remote backend that stores their content and performs their recordings

[22:31:11]

wagnerrp:

with one or more small frontends that have no storage capacity of their own next to tvs

[22:31:25]

ska:

So Maybe I can live with 250GB, but

[22:32:06]

wagnerrp:

HD recordings usually come in at 5–7GB/hr, putting that at a meager ~45hrs of recordings

[22:32:11]

ska:

wagnerrp: I guess we can run content over ethernet too. It has that support, but not sure if I can mount it.

[22:32:39]

wagnerrp:

mythtv streams content over its own internal protocol, no mounting required

[22:32:56]

ska:

wagnerrp: how far can I run hdmi cables?

[22:33:01]

wagnerrp:

well... the backend needs file access, the frontend does not

[22:33:27]

wagnerrp:

depends on the quality of cable

[22:33:54]

wagnerrp:

somewhere around 40–50' is an effective top end, before you start having to go to active cables, or some other device that runs at higher signal power

[22:34:21]

wagnerrp:

of course you need IR input for control, which is usually USB, which is in turn only 16'

[22:36:33]

ska:

wagnerrp: We're inclined to put the box next to the tv.. 45 hours of content is enough for us, and we have long term storage on other systes we can transfer.

[22:36:52]

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[22:37:10]

ska:

s/systes/systems

[22:37:10]

wagnerrp:

couple pages that might give more information... http://mythtv.org/wiki/Hardware_Requirements http://mythtv.org/wiki/Choosing_Frontend_Hardware http://mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Bare_Bones_Systems

[22:37:36]

wagnerrp:

but understand, those pages may be in varying degrees of age and irrelevance to the current market

[22:37:43]

** wagnerrp heads out **

[22:37:51]

ska:

wagnerrp: ty

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[23:03:17]

uzf:

Anyone know why I can't get a lock on my DVB-S setup? Signal strength is 87% or so, trying to get NASA (12224000kHz/R/20000000) locked

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SpaceBass:

hey folks, if I want to turn userjob1 on for all recordings, would this work: UPDATE record SET autouserjob1 = 1;

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MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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