Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, February 1st, 2012, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:20]

picgla1 (picgla1!~picmar@70-36-234-243.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[00:02:27]

wagnerrp:

firefox 10 available... ugh

[00:02:37]

sphery:

hehe

[00:02:37]

wagnerrp:

maybe it will fix the wiki page rendering

[00:02:51]

sphery:

you haven't installed the new mediawiki, yet?

[00:03:16]

sphery:

(BTW, I'm pretty sure you can "fix" the wiki page rendering in 9+ by simply setting the compatibility mode in FF... Not that you should, but...)

[00:03:27]

sphery:

the best approach is to upgrade our mediawiki

[00:03:30]

wagnerrp:

wasnt that going to happen during migration to the new/old server?

[00:04:05]

sphery:

yeah, pretty sure it will... no mediawiki installed, yet, so it's very unlikely we'd get the (no-longer-supported) pre-1.16 versions that are affected by the bug when we install it new

[00:04:11]

wagnerrp:

hey look, it is fixed

[00:04:19]

sphery:

just by switching to FF10?

[00:04:26]

wagnerrp:

seems o

[00:04:28]

wagnerrp:

so

[00:04:38]

sphery:

maybe it's detecting that it uses an old approach and then goes into compatibility mode

[00:05:12]

wagnerrp:

firefox 10 is really just firefox 8 with all of the modifications made to 9 reverted

[00:05:37]

sphery:

hehe

[00:05:49]

sphery:

we could do the same

[00:05:50]

wagnerrp:

nothing recording tonight..'

[00:05:56]

sphery:

and then we'd finally have mythtv as good as 0.18.1

[00:05:59]

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[00:06:13]

** sphery begins the reversion **

[00:06:49]

wagnerrp:

are you going back to a... preversion?

[00:07:42]

sphery:

hehe

[00:09:33]

wagnerrp:

http://www.american-buddha.com/astrangelove287b.jpg

[00:10:14]

** wagnerrp needs to protect his natural bodily fluids **

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[00:26:56]

aster1sk:

I'd be interested in piping /dev/video0 through ffmpeg for mp4 (x.264) – if I set user:group www-data on /dev/video0 and set the headers with PHP or python will it stream or do I need a segmented?

[00:27:18]

wagnerrp:

what card?

[00:27:39]

wagnerrp:

headers?

[00:27:40]

aster1sk:

It's mpeg2 onboard (hauppage 1600)

[00:28:09]

aster1sk:

Here's a hack to test :

[00:28:23]

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[00:28:24]

wagnerrp:

youve left out a lot of explination... it sounds like you want to stream live content from that card through a web page

[00:28:34]

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[00:28:45]

aster1sk:

<?php print shell_exec("cat /dev/video0"); ?>

[00:29:04]

aster1sk:

Apache will spit out the raw output from /dev/video0 assuming no-one else is using the dev.

[00:29:39]

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[00:29:47]

wagnerrp:

that doesnt really work, because you dont know how large the file is going to be

[00:29:58]

aster1sk:

True, so a segmented would be required then.

[00:30:02]

JChilds:

Hello. Does anyoe knwo if Mythtv supports something liek what nzbplayer does fro windows?

[00:30:18]

wagnerrp:

JChilds: see the topic, specifically the very last part of it

[00:30:38]

JChilds:

Thanks, Ill look again. I thought I had already checked there

[00:30:57]

wagnerrp:

aster1sk: take a look into the services api in 0.25

[00:31:19]

wagnerrp:

there is a streaming transcoder that supports segmentation, and i believe can handle live recordings

[00:31:41]

wagnerrp:

but its waiting for a bit of glue to tie it into a web page

[00:31:53]

wagnerrp:

should be functioning in time for the 0.25 release

[00:31:58]

sphery:

hehe, I had to check the topic to figure out what our topic has about some windows media player app I didn't recognize

[00:31:58]

JChilds:

Thanks. Ill go have another look.. I must eb blind :-)

[00:32:40]

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[00:34:51]

aster1sk:

I hope I don't get kick/banned but I don't particularly love myth, I don't record shows – but for now it's kinda my only option for streaming.

[00:35:41]

JChilds:

Wagnerrp : I can't seem to find any reference to streaming nzb's from any links in the title. I am still looking though.

[00:36:24]

wagnerrp:

JChilds: the very end of the topic, last five words

[00:36:26]

aster1sk:

I'd love to write a simple channel list, something that calls ivtv to change the freq via exec() that's web based – then just pushes everything over http in an open format.

[00:37:02]

wagnerrp:

aster1sk: i wouldnt be surprised if you could find some flash streaming framework that could be adapted for that purpose

[00:37:05]

aster1sk:

Something the iPad could use.

[00:37:12]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, mythtv really isnt designed for streaming

[00:37:23]

aster1sk:

It's true – I'm using the wrong tool for the job.

[00:37:25]

wagnerrp:

not outside a local network anyway

[00:37:33]

aster1sk:

Oh I don't care about remote.

[00:37:50]

JChilds:

Wagnerrp: Free Documetories are often shared via usenet. if that si indead what you re refering to.

[00:37:53]

aster1sk:

I do really appreciate the work the myth devs have done – my wife loves mythbackend on our ATV2 with XBMC

[00:38:38]

aster1sk:

I just think it would be super cool to have a more basic rig, to be honest (even as a dev) I find mythtv-setup a little confusing even after reading docs.

[00:39:03]

wagnerrp:

aster1sk: you might want to look for some videos online from "Robert McNamara"

[00:39:29]

wagnerrp:

one of the devs has been using the transcoding interface to write an ipad application to manage and access content on mythtv

[00:39:49]

aster1sk:

Not this one : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_McNamara ?

[00:39:56]

wagnerrp:

i dont know off hand if it would be compatible with the ATV, but they have similar enough hardware

[00:40:18]

wagnerrp:

thats the one

[00:40:18]

aster1sk:

Well it's XBMC on ATV – so codec support + http is A-OK

[00:40:21]

wagnerrp:

programming from beyond the grave

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kwmonroe` is now known as kwmonroe

[00:40:40]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: actually, that's /not/ the one

[00:40:44]

aster1sk:

Am I starting a flame war or something?

[00:40:46]

aster1sk:

Hahaha

[00:41:00]

skd5aner:

as, he is dead

[00:41:45]

aster1sk:

If I cook something up, would you be interested in knowing about it?

[00:41:47]

skd5aner:

neither is it any of these – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_McNamara_(disambiguation)

[00:41:49]

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[00:42:04]

aster1sk:

Heh ok – searching the 'deep web' heh

[00:42:17]

wagnerrp:

aster1sk: http://vimeo.com/user9091952

[00:42:23]

skd5aner:

the vids are on vimeo

[00:42:25]

aster1sk:

Killer

[00:43:06]

aster1sk:

Ahh I see how he's doing it.

[00:43:10]

MyylesMan:

hey guys i'm in the home stretch of a new Myth setup and need help setting up my remot

[00:43:18]

MyylesMan:

remote*

[00:43:47]

MyylesMan is now known as MylesMan

[00:44:03]

wagnerrp:

JChilds: assuming you are the extremely rare user actually using binary newsgroups for legal video downloading, the 99.99% of other users that arent means MythTV as a project wants nothing to do with 'newzbin'

[00:44:10]

aster1sk:

Nice work MylesMan – what device?

[00:44:27]

MylesMan:

it's a hauppague 350 remote hvr 1950 card

[00:44:33]

aster1sk:

OS?

[00:44:39]

MylesMan:

ubu

[00:44:48]

MylesMan:

11.10

[00:44:48]

aster1sk:

Ahh nice – I recently played with this.

[00:45:26]

aster1sk:

Have you run irrecord?

[00:46:04]

aster1sk:

I'm also assuming your have lirc installed?

[00:46:12]

MylesMan:

i just need hardware.conf / lircd.conf files

[00:46:20]

MylesMan:

for my mote

[00:46:33]

MylesMan:

and its ALL GOLDEN

[00:47:32]

MylesMan:

I found the lircd.conf actually

[00:47:33]

JChilds:

wagnerrp: That is fair enough. In my googling I found Couchpotato and Sickbeard. Neather of which I need. ( I am not after movies or tv shows, and I want them streamed). I guess this means you guys dont want anything to do with these programs also?

[00:47:41]

aster1sk:

Silly question – you've been here MylesMan http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/LIRC

[00:47:59]

MylesMan:

yeah

[00:48:30]

MylesMan:

i'm tempted to boot up my old fe/be and get it off that

[00:49:43]

MylesMan:

irw doesnt see my mote

[00:49:48]

aster1sk:

MylesMan: simplest brute force solution.

[00:50:32]

MylesMan:

get it off my old one? and adjust as needed

[00:50:54]

MylesMan:

yeah but its so old & slow lol

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[00:57:38]

wagnerrp:

JChilds: considering the expressed purpose of couchpotato and sickbeard is illegal piracy (as indicated by screenshots of their applications), their use is no tolerated

[00:59:29]

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[01:06:21]

MylesMan:

anybody got anyother ideas

[01:06:51]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so, was I overzealous in saying there's a good chance 0.25 will be released with a scanner that doesn't required videos/images SG directory list overrides on remote backends?

[01:07:15]

sphery:

(meaning does my promising that mean I need to finish it myself?)

[01:07:36]

sphery:

I know you've got the initial stuff (the proto stuff) done, but wondered if you're planning to do the scanner changes

[01:08:00]

wagnerrp:

would have to ask iamlindoro about that one

[01:08:29]

wagnerrp:

i could if hes not going to, and he sounded in agreement with it

[01:08:45]

wagnerrp:

its something id like to see get done for 0.25, for consistency if nothing else

[01:09:12]

sphery:

agreed

[01:09:29]

sphery:

I'll bump it higher than a couple other things I'm hoping to do if I'm going to do it

[01:09:46]

sphery:

like you said, the consistency benefits make it a really desirable thing to get in for 0.25

[01:10:55]

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[01:14:51]

MylesMan:

ok

[01:15:01]

MylesMan:

i have forward progress

[01:15:10]

sphery:

wagnerrp: if I do a program_info->SaveFilesize(size) on a MythVideo video program_info, there's no problem, right? (but also no benefit)

[01:15:16]

MylesMan:

irw can see my 'mote now

[01:15:30]

wagnerrp:

i would assume it does nothing

[01:15:38]

wagnerrp:

i dont really know to be honest

[01:15:45]

MylesMan:

but myth isnt responding

[01:15:51]

sphery:

yeah, it seems to do nothing--I don't even see errors (but that may be because we don't really do logging when using the console output stuff)

[01:16:13]

sphery:

I'll probably just push this and if it is a problem, I'm sure I'll find out soon :)

[01:16:52]

sphery:

wagnerrp: also, LocalHostName -> HostID or HostIdentifier or something?

[01:17:25]

sphery:

(just in the mysql.txt/config.xml code, for now)

[01:17:49]

sphery:

any thoughts on a good name?

[01:17:54]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt bother changing the name at this point

[01:18:17]

wagnerrp:

until its something that must be configured (and isnt autoconfigured off the hostname), its really of no meaning to nearly all users

[01:18:31]

sphery:

well, it would help users understand how to use it when overriding

[01:19:04]

wagnerrp:

i would say 'profileid', or something with profile in it, to be honest

[01:19:11]

wagnerrp:

something other than 'host'

[01:19:13]

sphery:

and it's a very quick change... just add one more block and output a log message when someone uses the old name

[01:19:16]

sphery:

I like that

[01:19:32]

wagnerrp:

since its not identifying the host, its identifying that particular instance of a mythtv application

[01:20:39]

sphery:

agreed

[01:20:57]

sphery:

is the only way to deal with file size changes in mythvideo files to remove them from the dir then scan, then move them back?

[01:21:17]

wagnerrp:

there is no way to deal with file size changes in mythvideo files

[01:21:27]

wagnerrp:

as they do not change, and that information is not stored

[01:21:45]

sphery:

ahh, ok

[01:21:47]

sphery:

cool

[01:21:50]

wagnerrp:

if the file size does in fact change, then so does the hash

[01:22:13]

sphery:

I just assumed we had a size in there--and was looking at length

[01:22:17]

sphery:

but I suppose that means run length

[01:22:17]

wagnerrp:

in which case the attached metadata is effectively broken, and will be orphaned and discarded should the file ever be moved

[01:22:36]

wagnerrp:

there is a run length field

[01:22:39]

sphery:

cool, so I don't have to worry about updating file size in mythvideo

[01:22:58]

sphery:

I'm doing it in recordings with mythcommflag --rebuild just because it's actually important for some stuff (like upnp seeking)

[01:22:59]

wagnerrp:

what is this in reference to?

[01:23:31]

sphery:

in ref to ^^^... since mythcommflag --rebuild allows you to specify --video , I wanted to make sure I'm not breaking the --video case with my changes

[01:23:41]

sphery:

which meant learning a bit about the video stuff :)

[01:23:42]

wagnerrp:

ah, right

[01:23:46]

wagnerrp:

realized that just after i asked

[01:23:46]

sphery:

thanks for the info

[01:23:59]

wagnerrp:

since you cant define a video for the jobqueue yet

[01:24:20]

wagnerrp:

and wont be until we both get our respective changes in

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[01:39:28]

MylesMan:

anybody have a happauge 350 remote (its /grey silver) ineed a lircd.conf

[01:40:00]

sphery:

your distro doesn't have one?

[01:40:14]

sphery:

as you actually have to match lircd.conf with lircrc

[01:40:49]

MylesMan:

i'll just pull it off my old rig

[01:41:18]

MylesMan:

i'm sick of fighting w/the damn web lol

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[01:45:34]

MylesMan:

mythfill db isntt grabbing all my guide info yes, i did a grab all and checked the xmltv ids

[01:46:27]

MylesMan:

holdon it may be doing it now

[01:46:31]

MylesMan:

lol

[01:48:45]

MylesMan:

in system status it said it ran but didn't add any new data for 1 of one this can indicate.... then it cuts off lool

[01:52:07]

MylesMan:

any ideas?

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[02:15:00]

sphery:

can't ask mylesman for a log, now, it seems

[02:15:08]

sphery:

almost asked MythLogBot for one

[02:19:44]

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[02:20:17]

wagnerrp:

so it seems now ive got one more listen server to patch

[02:21:46]

sphery:

listen server?

[02:22:25]

wagnerrp:

im patching all of our servers to explicitly listen on localhost, and the defined server IP

[02:22:30]

wagnerrp:

rather than ALL, or ALLIPv6

[02:23:16]

sphery:

ahh

[02:23:29]

wagnerrp:

perhaps two

[02:23:40]

wagnerrp:

looks like airplay runs one, and bonjour runs a separate one

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[02:57:40]

jpabq:

With the *new* mythmusic stuff, how do you manage "smart" playlists?

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[03:33:20]

wagnerrp:

wow....

[03:33:52]

iamlindoro:

?

[03:33:53]

wagnerrp:

someone tried to post a link to a page 'burnthefatfeedthemuscle-scam'

[03:34:02]

wagnerrp:

http://code.mythtv.org/trac/admin/spamfilter/monitor/77579

[03:34:20]

sphery:

the page actually says scam?

[03:34:29]

sphery:

(er, the URI includes the word scam)

[03:34:34]

wagnerrp:

yes, 'scam' is in the URI

[03:34:50]

wagnerrp:

link requires trac login

[03:35:00]

sphery:

nice... guess it helps them keep it separate from their real "burn the fat feed the muscle" products

[03:35:38]

wagnerrp:

actually, their post says its a scam at the end too

[03:35:59]

sphery:

hehe, so it does

[03:36:33]

wagnerrp:

and heres a random blank one from user agent.... "Mozilla/5.0 (PLAYSTATION 3; 1.00)"

[03:37:43]

wagnerrp:

i dont think my playstation was ever 1.00, even fresh out of the box from a pre-order

[03:38:09]

[R]:

maybe the browser is 1.00... not the firmware?

[03:39:16]

sphery:

impressive that they have mozilla running on ps3

[03:40:04]

skd5aner:

if I was going to spam, I'd use an AOL browser agent – you know, just for fun

[03:40:18]

wagnerrp:

like 3.0 or something

[03:40:18]

[R]:

sphery: all modern useragents say mozilla/5.0 infront

[03:40:25]

[R]:

ehell, even ie does

[03:40:40]

wagnerrp:

one of the ones from back when they still offered floppies, since CD drives were uncommon?

[03:40:54]

sphery:

IE is Mozilla/4.0

[03:40:54]

skd5aner:

this one... Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; AOL 4.0; Mac_68K)

[03:41:07]

[R]:

sphery: i said modern...

[03:41:08]

sphery:

which is why Mozilla skipped 4.0 UA string

[03:41:14]

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[03:41:14]

[R]:

they switched to 5.0 in ie8

[03:41:40]

MyylesMan:

something very strange is happening to me w/lirc

[03:41:49]

[R]:

aparently some versinos of 7 have it too

[03:42:00]

skd5aner:

MyylesMan: it's controlling /you/?

[03:42:00]

MyylesMan:

irw isnt actually getting codes

[03:42:18]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: no man, this isnt soviet russia

[03:42:48]

sphery:

didn't realize they changed it

[03:43:05]

sphery:

anyway, the whole UA thing is stupid--even Google doesn't know how to parse it properly (and I use this to my benefit)

[03:43:16]

MyylesMan:

when i push the buttons it the comp treats as th a key on my keyboard was hit ie. irw isnt actually seeing the keys

[03:43:23]

** skd5aner 's thoughts will now be in a Soviet Russian accent for the rest of the evening **

[03:43:40]

sphery:

allows me to disable their cursed instant search without actually signing in

[03:43:48]

wagnerrp:

you must... think Russian!

[03:44:10]

MyylesMan:

should i purge lirc

[03:44:14]

sphery:

MyylesMan: you have to set up lirc to use devinput

[03:44:15]

[R]:

sphery: why on earth would you want to disable it...

[03:44:33]

skd5aner:

says the man who runs "Iceweasel"

[03:44:36]

sphery:

MyylesMan: or use whatever keys the kernel maps to your buttons in your mythtv key bindings

[03:44:38]

skd5aner:

sphery: ^

[03:44:42]

MyylesMan:

derrp

[03:44:54]

sphery:

I'm running Aurora

[03:45:40]

skd5aner:

Do you think Dave Grohl runs Aurora?

[03:45:58]

sphery:

(they actually changed the UA string in version 8.x so that even if you disagree with the Firefox name license, it uses the name FF in the UA string because so many brain-dead web developers don't know how to parse the UA string and apps don't work if you don't say Firefox)

[03:46:16]

sphery:

but I change mine to not use Firefox so that Google's instant search doesn't work

[03:46:20]

wagnerrp:

sphery: without google predictive searches, you miss out on wonderful gems such as... http://www.tgisfw.com/2009/01/my-top-10-googl . . . -search.html

[03:46:45]

sphery:

oh, no, the predictive search text works, just not the "search before I hit enter"

[03:46:58]

sphery:

search before I hit enter is the most annoying thing in the world

[03:47:00]

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[03:47:04]

wagnerrp:

oh, well that is annoying

[03:47:19]

sphery:

you can disable it, but you have to do it through google options

[03:47:25]

** skd5aner wonders if anyone got his not-so-obscure foo fighters reference **

[03:47:28]

sphery:

meaning either keep google cookies on your system at all times

[03:47:35]

sphery:

or sign in to your google profile at all times

[03:47:45]

sphery:

or constantly re-set the preference

[03:48:02]

sphery:

or--as I've found--take Firefox out of the User-Agent string :)

[03:48:52]

skd5aner:

you know...

[03:49:02]

skd5aner:

is it really worth it?

[03:49:15]

skd5aner:

seems easier to, you know, live with the cookie or sign in to google

[03:49:42]

wagnerrp:

hahahaha...

[03:49:50]

wagnerrp:

"do ginger people have ginger pubes"

[03:50:20]

sphery:

and the funniest part is that I don't even search with Google, anymore, so I'm going to all this trouble (as I have to disable my rewrite for a lot of other applications I /want/ to work) and not even using Google's search, so I wouldn't get the Instant Search, anyway

[03:50:45]

skd5aner:

life without google

[03:50:52]

sphery:

that said, lots of other stuff--including advertising--will fall back to "simpler" approaches (using plain images instead of javascript-animated images) without Firefox in UA

[03:50:55]

skd5aner:

you should write a blog

[03:50:56]

[R]:

wagnerrp: wtf!?

[03:51:00]

sphery:

hehe

[03:51:03]

wagnerrp:

"i like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur"

[03:51:10]

skd5aner:

lifewithoutgoogle.blogspot.com

[03:51:12]

wagnerrp:

[R]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/ . . . Suggest.html

[03:51:14]

[R]:

wagnerrp: i thought this was a family friendly environment

[03:51:25]

skd5aner:

well, couldn't be blogspot – since that's owned by google

[03:52:29]

wagnerrp:

hey, if youre wise enough to understand what "pubes" means, you shouldnt get offended by it

[03:52:30]

[R]:

"i am extremely terrified of chinese people"

[03:52:35]

[R]:

how is that even a search query?

[03:52:43]

wagnerrp:

and theres like five different versions of that too

[03:53:00]

skd5aner:

no... the FUNNIEST one I ever saw... I have to try and find it

[03:53:00]

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[03:53:30]

skd5aner:

ah... here it is: http://www.epicfail.com/2009/10/11/google-suggest-fail-8/

[03:53:58]

skd5aner:

I honestly stumbled across that one myself... and at the time, it was the #1 suggestion, not #2

[03:54:06]

skd5aner:

and I was at work... thinking "wtf"

[03:54:12]

wagnerrp:

seriously, who puts strawberries on salads?

[03:54:26]

skd5aner:

Panera

[03:54:52]

skd5aner:

Panera also puts nipples on your salad too – among other things, but they do that in the back

[03:54:54]

[R]:

wagnerrp: #12 on your list

[03:55:09]

wagnerrp:

joshua and the technicholor bowel movement?

[03:55:31]

wagnerrp:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/0 . . . 1477741a.jpg

[03:55:54]

[R]:

i like the 3rd from the bottom

[03:56:01]

skd5aner:

"Red and Yellow, Black and White... they are precious in his sight"

[03:56:57]

wagnerrp:

"why is there a dead pakistani on my couch"

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[04:36:05]

slickrick:

hi.

[04:36:08]

slickrick:

i am working on setting up a slave backend which i have my hdpvr connected to. i read the documentation and ran through the steps.

[04:36:09]

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[04:36:15]

slickrick:

at this point i'm expecting that i can see the new capture device when i change the sources in the frontend but i can't.

[04:36:21]

slickrick:

i have checked the master and slave backend logs and everything looks fine. can anyone tell me where i should look next?

[04:37:18]

wagnerrp:

you created the device, created a new video source for it, and attached the source to the component input on the device?

[04:37:35]

slickrick:

yes.

[04:37:44]

slickrick:

however, i will go back and verify.

[04:37:51]

wagnerrp:

you pulled a channel lineup for that source from schedules direct?

[04:37:58]

slickrick:

yes.

[04:38:32]

wagnerrp:

the slave backend has write access to the storage paths you defined on the master backend?

[04:38:43]

wagnerrp:

either through NFS mounts, or local hard drives mounted to the same paths

[04:38:46]

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[04:39:26]

slickrick:

no it does not, thats what i must be missing.

[04:39:45]

wagnerrp:

a slave backend will remain offline if it does not have anywhere to store to

[04:41:39]

slickrick:

makes sense. does that show up anywhere in the logs? or does it just silently stay offline.

[04:41:54]

wagnerrp:

it should show an error in the slave backend logs

[04:42:07]

wagnerrp:

and the status page should have those inputs marked as offline

[04:44:51]

slickrick:

thanks wagnerp.

[04:51:55]

sphery:

the slave backend logs should actually say that it's shutting down

[04:52:11]

sphery:

and it should exit (with an error status code, I think)

[04:58:31]

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[05:01:15]

slickrick:

that was it. now the source shows up.

[05:01:24]

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[05:01:36]

slickrick:

now the logs say permission denied trying to write to the nfs mount. i am sure i can figure that out however.

[05:01:39]

slickrick:

thanks for the help.

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[05:28:33]

Unguided:

Hello All. Newb question. So new I dont even know the keyboard shortcut for starting a recording im watching. What I really want to know is: is there a way to test my cablecard and provider to see if they mark recordings as copy once or copy freely?

[05:29:28]

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[05:29:46]

wagnerrp:

test your cablecard... meaning you currently have a cablecard tuner?

[05:31:03]

Unguided:

Hey Wagnerrp yes. I have two primes and would like to know if my cable op allows me to copy freely or not. More on the hi def channels than anything else

[05:31:16]

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[05:31:26]

wagnerrp:

your primes have an accessible status webpage that documents such information

[05:31:45]

Unguided:

do you know off hand what im looking ofr?

[05:31:54]

wagnerrp:

no, i dont own one

[05:33:07]

Unguided:

I do see CCI Protection unrestricted

[05:34:57]

Unguided:

the cable company says that they dont flag but most of the CSR's dont seem to have a clue

[05:35:26]

wagnerrp:

thats typical

[05:35:38]

wagnerrp:

(the CSRs, not the cableco stuff)

[05:35:53]

wagnerrp:

ive never heard of buckeyecom, so i dont know what to expect from them

[05:36:30]

Unguided:

right so i want to test to make sure. what is the keyboard shortcut in myth to start a recording?

[05:36:41]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is always recording

[05:37:03]

wagnerrp:

the only difference between live tv and a scheduled recording is one flag in the database

[05:37:24]

wagnerrp:

livetv recordings are typically expired a day after use, or earlier if you need the space

[05:37:35]

Unguided:

ok i meant to playback later. if they flag then i should only see a black screen or would it be easier to change channels and just look at the tuner status?

[05:37:48]

wagnerrp:

at any time prior to that, you can "record" it, making it a "proper" recording with a longer duration

[05:38:30]

wagnerrp:

pressing 'r' during live tv flags the recording as such immediately, allowing the recording to continue to record even if you exit live tv

[05:39:19]

Unguided:

ok. great. Im so close wagnerrp. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel

[05:41:05]

Unguided:

just for your future knowledge, the CCI protection on a prime is the copy flag. It just says unrestricted but they can be in 0x00 format which is copy freely. wikipedia has a nice article.

[05:42:14]

wagnerrp:

we have a much shorter one... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/CableCARD

[05:42:39]

wagnerrp:

although its infinitely more valuable than the wikipedia one due to the link to this... http://www.ronfrazier.net/mythtv/cci/index.php

[05:43:51]

wagnerrp:

do note that CCI data is variable per show

[05:44:20]

wagnerrp:

a copy freely marking on a channel now generally means similar marking in the future, but it is not guaranteed

[05:44:25]

Unguided:

i new i should have looked here first. just wasnt sure how to look that up. I see the info changing as i change channels

[05:45:55]

wagnerrp:

that guy has a script on his site to generate that information off from Ceton cards, which you can then send into him to post

[05:46:09]

wagnerrp:

i dont know off hand if anyone has written such a script for the Primes

[05:49:39]

petefoo:

reading ron's page reminded me... are people using libcec?

[05:49:54]

petefoo:

i noticed it got a little attention

[05:50:09]

wagnerrp:

one of the devs is, but i dont know how widespread it is

[05:50:37]

petefoo:

seems like a neat idea

[05:50:58]

petefoo:

you can do away with loads of rs-232

[05:51:24]

Unguided:

Can i manually run mythfilldatabse and if so how?

[05:51:25]

petefoo:

but i have no idea how compatible it is/willturnout

[05:51:40]

wagnerrp:

you just run 'mythfilldatabase' on the command line

[05:51:51]

Unguided:

ok

[05:52:01]

wagnerrp:

but the only worth in doing so is when you have recently modified your channels, or set xmltvids for them

[05:52:10]

wagnerrp:

and dont want to wait for the next automated run to get the changes

[05:53:10]

Unguided:

I lost my program guide information. It been a while. A had to put it down b/c i got frustrated

[05:56:09]

Unguided:

SO far, all of my hi def and standard channels say CCI protection is unrestricted. I dont subscribe to any premiums like HBO, showtime and the like

[06:02:45]

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[06:17:43]

sphery:

wagnerrp: when I start mythjobqueue, I get http://pastebin.com/Qghze3xU ... Is that the control socket, then the events socket opening?

[06:18:10]

wagnerrp:

yep

[06:25:29]

sphery:

cool, thanks... wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something crazy and causing it to do 2 connections

[06:31:20]

wagnerrp:

Captain_Murdoch: i think you had that one backwards

[06:35:39]

sphery:

how in the world does Ingwer's graphics card even work?

[06:36:03]

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[06:36:37]

wagnerrp:

vulcan mysticism

[06:37:43]

wagnerrp:

im betting his problem is some aiglx funkiness

[06:40:10]

sphery:

strange that his GL doesn't report a Vendor, Renderer or Version

[06:40:36]

sphery:

but, yeah, probably some middleman complicating things... surprised, though, that his vdpau works

[06:40:49]

wagnerrp:

maybe it doesnt?

[06:40:57]

wagnerrp:

he has it configured, but its just dropping through to xvideo

[06:41:09]

sphery:

quite possible

[06:41:48]

sphery:

I think maybe tomorrow I'll reply and see if we can figure it out--or if we really should put in a "don't recommend" for empty vender/renderer/version

[06:42:00]

sphery:

s/tomorrow/today/ ???

[06:42:09]

sphery:

(just after I actually sleep :)

[06:42:33]

sphery:

71% Completed @ 98.0757 fps ... A watched commflag never finishes

[06:42:48]

sphery:

(trying to verify my patch works--and it goes back to allowing shutdown when finished)

[06:42:53]

wagnerrp:

hang on

[06:43:03]

wagnerrp:

mythrender_opengl2es.h

[06:43:09]

wagnerrp:

theres the problem

[06:43:10]

sphery:

hehe

[06:43:12]

wagnerrp:

crazy bastard

[06:43:18]

sphery:

must be a gentoo-er :)

[06:43:24]

wagnerrp:

suse

[06:43:29]

sphery:

ah, yeah, he said that

[06:43:45]

wagnerrp:

although it does try using opengl as well

[06:43:46]

sphery:

we should really ask markk if that's something people should be doing

[06:47:15]

wagnerrp:

sphery: hes got a quadro NVS 300

[06:47:26]

wagnerrp:

thats based off the Geforce 7600M

[06:47:32]

wagnerrp:

there is no way hes using VDPAU of any sort

[06:47:41]

sphery:

hehe

[06:48:00]

sphery:

probably should ask him to reinstall nvidia drivers and see if it works, then

[06:48:53]

wagnerrp:

actually, scratch that

[06:49:06]

wagnerrp:

there are two different NVS 300s

[06:49:15]

wagnerrp:

one is a 7600, the other is a GT210

[06:49:29]

wagnerrp:

gotta love model reuse...

[06:51:21]

sphery:

hehe

[06:51:49]

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[06:51:55]

sphery:

and in the enterprise space, right?

[06:52:08]

wagnerrp:

yes

[06:52:35]

wagnerrp:

specifically intended for multimonitor on non-standard interfaces

[06:52:39]

sphery:

I'd think they'd do better at not reusing model numbers for enterprise products... though maybe that's their way of allowing customers to buy "the same equipment" much later on?

[06:52:45]

wagnerrp:

i.e. PCIe x1 and such

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[08:50:14]

sphery:

So, my local Fox affiliate must have gotten themselves a new (terrible quality) encoder. They keep popping up primary election results on New Girl and each time they do, drop from 6ch to 2ch audio--resulting in a "skip" (maybe from MythTV or maybe from them, but why is their encoder unable to keep the same audio format?)

[08:51:44]

wagnerrp:

my local Fox affiliate has some fantastic encoder

[08:51:48]

wagnerrp:

too bad i record more off CBS

[08:52:30]

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[08:56:30]

sphery:

hehe, I take it the CBS guys don't have a good encoder

[08:56:37]

wagnerrp:

awful

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[08:56:57]

wagnerrp:

made all that much worse by the interlacing

[08:57:46]

sphery:

at least my Fox channel doesn't drop down to upscaled NTSC/2ch, now... They can encode the ticker on top of the 720p video--but just can't do the audio for some reason

[08:58:16]

wagnerrp:

i think my CBS has always been 2ch AC3

[09:04:11]

billy2:

anyone familiar with DVB-T2? So far i cant find many cards out and about

[09:04:15]

billy2:

wondering if anyone had recommendations :)

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[10:07:52]

Roklobsta_:

what is the raw format the stations use before encoding for transmission ?

[10:12:47]

stuartm:

I know this ... hmm, brain failing me

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[11:18:32]

Peitolm:

q: is audio output handled directly by Mythtv, or is it done via Qt? (i'm gettting no sound on an iMac, where as the same build options give me sound on a MBP, both running osx 10.6)

[11:19:39]

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[11:25:37]

sphery:

it's mythtv code, not qt

[11:34:25]

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[11:36:18]

Peitolm:

o.k.

[11:36:32]

Peitolm:

guess i need to find out what the hardware differences are then

[11:36:47]

stuartm:

qt's audio stuff is very basic, designed for playing wav files when you press a button or similar, you can forget multi-channel audio, audio resampling etc

[11:36:59]

Peitolm:

unless it's a frontend configuration, but I didn't see any audio setup when i looked

[11:37:14]

Peitolm:

I did find an old ticket talking about the default not being set correctly

[11:37:38]

stuartm:

Peitolm: it's there, under 'Audio' in the Setup menu

[11:38:15]

stuartm:

or under General settings in earlier versions of MythTV

[11:38:51]

Peitolm:

i swear i looked, i will tripple check when i get home, but i've just looking in the database and the AudioOutputDevice is set differently

[11:41:53]

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[11:44:14]

Peitolm:

so, if i don't find it in the setup menu, i will prod the db

[11:44:38]

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[11:48:58]

stuartm:

generally not recommended, there are other audio related settings which are connected to the device chosen and which are set by the audio configuration wizard

[11:58:15]

Peitolm:

i appreciate that, i take dumps before and after i tweak stuff in the database

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[14:11:06]

stuartm:

Channel 4 HD are upscaling some films with a really lousy technique, the result looks like you're viewing it through a net curtain or fine cheese cloth, it just seems to stretch the picture they've introduced space around blocks of pixels

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[15:27:59]

wagnerrp:

stuartm, Roklobsta_: SDI for internal connections (coaxial, 3Gbps, uncompressed) or ASI between the encoder and transmitters

[15:29:16]

stuartm:

ASI was the one I was trying to think of

[15:30:18]

wagnerrp:

ASI is compressed, so after the encoders

[15:30:35]

wagnerrp:

or from the satellite feed before the decoders

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[15:51:23]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro... does not seem to be around

[15:51:29]

wagnerrp:

hmm

[16:02:44]

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[16:06:24]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: if you run into aster1sk again, he's going to need to do much more than "cat /dev/video0" if he wants it to play on the iPad. It needs to be transcoded to H.264, converted to an MPEG2-TS container, and passed through an HTTP Live segmenter.

[16:07:13]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but that whole process is really outside the scope of this channel's purpose when mythtv has built in capability to do all of that now

[16:07:17]

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[16:07:22]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: agreed.

[16:08:03]

devinheitmueller:

I'm just point it out as to let the user to either give up now or be prepared to make a considerable investment in time/energy to make what he wants to work.

[16:08:12]

devinheitmueller:

But yeah, OT for this channel.

[16:08:16]

RagingMind:

is there a point to setting up a dish and getting a dvb-s card in the US?

[16:11:16]

wagnerrp:

crap... whats that site...

[16:11:44]

Peitolm:

lyngsat?

[16:11:48]

wagnerrp:

http://www.lyngsat.com/america.html

[16:11:51]

wagnerrp:

yeah, that one

[16:12:00]

wagnerrp:

RagingMind: ^^^^

[16:12:07]

wagnerrp:

in short, no, not really

[16:12:33]

wagnerrp:

not a whole lot of worth youre going to get over C-band that you dont already get over broadcast

[16:12:40]

wagnerrp:

unless youre in the boonies and have no broadcast

[16:13:51]

RagingMind:

on a good day I get 1 channel ota

[16:16:56]

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[16:17:20]

wagnerrp:

heres the real list... http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/United-States.html

[16:17:51]

wagnerrp:

some news, some sports, some international, a lot of religious

[16:19:30]

wagnerrp:

RagingMind: do note the EIRP on most of those is 0, meaning you cant view them, they shouldnt really even be on the list

[16:21:35]

wagnerrp:

how has NBC never gone after these guys... http://www.lyngsat.com/tvchannels/us/Good-Idea-TV.html

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[16:48:42]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: in the DVB device tree, you can have multiple frontends

[16:48:56]

wagnerrp:

would that be separate ones for things like S, S2, T, on the same tuner?

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[16:56:32]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: varies by product, as well as whether the device has separate tuners/demods for the different modulation types are shared.

[16:56:51]

wagnerrp:

this would be a turbosight card

[16:56:57]

devinheitmueller:

For example, it's common for a product to have a single frontend shared for both S and S2, and then a second frontend for DVB-T.

[16:57:06]

devinheitmueller:

I don't really know anything about that particular card.

[16:57:21]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtvtalk.com/tbs6981-dual-tuner- . . . ythtv-15347/

[16:57:34]

wagnerrp:

user claims to be using "/dev/dvb/frontend1/adapter0"

[16:57:35]

devinheitmueller:

If it's a TBS product, the question should probably go to linux-media.

[16:57:59]

wagnerrp:

im assuming he just configured one tuner, saw the two virtual tuners, and called it a day

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[16:58:14]

wagnerrp:

ive just never seen anything other than frontend0

[16:58:16]

devinheitmueller:

Perhaps.

[16:58:22]

wagnerrp:

(and he did screw up the ordering as above)

[16:58:25]

devinheitmueller:

Yes, there can definitely be multiple frontend devices on a single adapter.

[16:59:06]

devinheitmueller:

Also, I think TBS has drivers not in the upstream.

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[18:29:55]

MylesMan:

can someone help me out with my lirc ?? my remote's down arrow is skipping menu options and scrolling too fast in the FE

[18:36:04]

wagnerrp:

see the 'repeat' and 'delay' options in your lircrc config

[18:38:56]

MylesMan:

k

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[18:56:27]

Oleg_:

mythtv-0.24.2 is now in freebsd ports

[18:56:55]

Oleg_:

glad that port has a maintainer who doesn't forget about it

[18:57:59]

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[18:58:14]

wagnerrp:

0.24.2 is just a tag, something for packagers who require a specific release version to use

[18:58:42]

wagnerrp:

there were no schema or protocol changes to distinguish it from 0.24.0 or 0.24.1

[19:00:14]

Oleg_:

but mythtv-0.24.2 has bug fixes that are absent from mythtv-0.24.1, right?

[19:00:20]

stuartm:

right

[19:00:25]

wagnerrp:

that depends

[19:00:34]

wagnerrp:

is it actually 0.24.2

[19:00:55]

wagnerrp:

or is it just a changeset on the fixes/0.24 branch after the 0.24.2 tag?

[19:00:56]

stuartm:

well it depends on what packagers were calling 0.24.1, some were labelling 0.24-fixes as 0.24.1

[19:01:22]

Oleg_:

well, look at this: http://www.freshports.org/multimedia/mythtv

[19:01:28]

Oleg_:

it says there: 0.24.2

[19:02:40]

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[19:04:09]

stuartm:

that actually doesn't mean much, packagers like to call things whatever they want without reflection on what version they actually _are_

[19:04:33]

wagnerrp:

looking at the distinfo, they actually are using the release tarball

[19:05:19]

Oleg_:

wagnerrp, which means that it's actually 0.24.2?

[19:05:26]

wagnerrp:

yes

[19:05:33]

stuartm:

as individuals I like most packagers, as a collective though they can be a law unto themselves with far too much power over how a piece of software is presented to the end user – you might think you're running MythTV when it's in fact a bastardised version with the packagers own patches and config preferences (rather than the defaults)

[19:05:49]

wagnerrp:

most linux distros package up some other changeset

[19:07:56]

stuartm:

I'm pretty disappointed with the Mandriva/Mageia MythTV packages when I looked at them a couple of weeks ago, old deps, broken version info, generally sloppy and I didn't even look at what crazy config args they had used

[19:08:22]

devinheitmueller:

Mandriva is still around? ;-)

[19:08:58]

sphery:

it is a very nice thing when a distros packagers closely watch development of some software item and work with the devs

[19:09:01]

stuartm:

just about, although it's going downhill very quickly

[19:09:26]

sphery:

that seems to be the exception rather than the rule, though

[19:10:18]

sphery:

(which is why I highly recommend Ubuntu for MythTV, and can't see any reason for someone to use Debian and Debian Multimedia--not even factoring in the philosophical reasons against MythTV on "pure" Debian)

[19:10:50]

stuartm:

yeah, the ubuntu devs in particular have been good at that, although it wasn't always the case and I wouldn't be surprised if they still maintain their own patches

[19:11:42]

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[19:11:50]

stuartm:

sphery: the philosophical reason being that Debian is always too f'ing old for a multimedia system

[19:12:09]

sphery:

yeah, not sure about patches... there have been a few times they did some bad ones (like my "make it compile, but without fixing the code" patch when Qt4.7 came out), but I'm hoping that's only when they're backed into a corner that they add their own patches like that

[19:12:16]

stuartm:

but still better than CentOS (yah crazy bar stewards)

[19:13:33]

sphery:

stuartm: hehe, I was thinking more of the fact that Debian is all about "purity" of licensing and no license-/patent-questionable software, but that to even compile MythTV, you need several 3rd party packages that break that philosophy

[19:13:55]

sphery:

so that once you add them--if you do everything right--you basically end up with an Ubuntu or Mint rather than "pure" Debian

[19:13:55]

stuartm:

what sort of logic is it to run the bleeding edge version of multimedia software application on the oldest (in terms of package versions) distro you can find?

[19:14:09]

sphery:

at which point, why not use Ubuntu/Mint + Mythbuntu repos to get some great packages

[19:14:27]

stuartm:

sphery: I know what you mean, I was just taking advantage to trot out one of my favourite rants ;)

[19:14:34]

sphery:

oh, and speaking of old... Did you see that Red Hat extended support for RHEL 5 and RHEL 6 to 10 years!

[19:14:54]

sphery:

guess we'll have RHEL 5 users for 3 years longer than we expected

[19:14:55]

kormoc:

stuartm, but we all know that old bugs are more stable then new bugs!

[19:15:04]

sphery:

hehe

[19:15:17]

kormoc:

sphery, they always offered it, it's just free for the 10 year plan now rather then paid

[19:15:28]

kormoc:

(Free with RHN sub that is)

[19:15:29]

sphery:

ahh, didn't realize that

[19:15:31]

stuartm:

I can understand that given RH's customer base are large commercial entities and institutions, that doesn't make RHEL the local choice for a home computer

[19:15:54]

sphery:

but it does mean the CentOS users and SL usres are likely to stick with older versions for longer

[19:16:30]

sphery:

and, like you said, bleeding edge multimedia + old distro ...

[19:19:48]

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[21:02:30]

wizbit:

my parents came over this evening, and guess what...

[21:02:42]

wizbit:

they forgot to bring my package, the frontend :(

[21:02:53]

wagnerrp:

why are you shipping stuff to your parent's house?

[21:03:16]

wizbit:

nobody is at home during the day

[21:03:33]

wagnerrp:

leave it out front?

[21:03:41]

wizbit:

in London?..

[21:03:42]

wizbit:

hmmmm

[21:03:51]

wagnerrp:

grab up the tag and pick it up at the sorting facility in the evening

[21:04:06]

wizbit:

they are only open on saturday

[21:04:16]

wizbit:

it doesnt matter, will get it weekend

[21:04:16]

wagnerrp:

that sucks

[21:04:36]

wagnerrp:

UPS, FedEx, and DHL all have front offices open from 6–8 or so

[21:04:50]

wizbit:

i will continue learning bash instead

[21:04:59]

EvilGuru:

My postman left a Â£700 monitor outside my flat in London when we were not in

[21:05:16]

wagnerrp:

if no one is around to accept delivery, they leave a tag, and you can stop by to pick it up when the truck it is on returns to the sorting facility

[21:09:22]

wizbit:

name=mythtv; for ((i=1; i<=5; i++)); do printf "%s\n" 'mythtv is great!'; done;

[21:09:39]

wizbit:

i didnt need name=

[21:10:01]

wizbit:

name='mythtv is great!'; for ((i=1; i<=5; i++)); do printf "%s\n" $name; done;

[21:10:19]

lis0r:

this is why I get stuff delivered to work

[21:12:19]

wizbit:

read -p "what is your name?" name; if [[ $name="wagnerrp" ]]; then printf "you clever sod"; fi

[21:12:56]

wagnerrp:

have i ever mentioned my hatred of bash?

[21:13:02]

wizbit:

eeek

[21:13:13]

stuartm:

next up, write the one which redirects cash from your current account to the developers of MythTV ;)

[21:13:17]

wizbit:

im just learning basics, then i will focus on python

[21:13:36]

wagnerrp:

whats so great about python?

[21:13:45]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /327214.html

[21:13:50]

wizbit:

im not sure, do you think i should learn something else?

[21:14:02]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: you've moved on to something else?

[21:14:07]

wagnerrp:

learn "the appropriate tool"

[21:14:28]

wizbit:

wagnerrp: it will be too much hard working learning them 'all' in detail

[21:14:43]

wagnerrp:

if you need something simple to loop through a couple external executables, use bash

[21:15:09]

wagnerrp:

if you need something more complex for text processing, use perl or python or php or ruby or...

[21:15:43]

wagnerrp:

if you need something faster, and able to integrate with an existing code base and gui (and that code base is c++), use c++

[21:16:01]

stuartm:

perl is a decent stepping stone to a real language like C/C++, but if that's where you're going to end up you might as well start with C++

[21:16:13]

wizbit:

i want something what can be used on the system as well as web, python sounds perfect for my requirements

[21:16:46]

lis0r:

ugh, such terrible languages >_<

[21:16:55]

wizbit:

lis0r: what is

[21:17:09]

lis0r:

pretty much all of the ones mentioned above

[21:17:21]

wizbit:

what do you recommend?

[21:17:39]

wizbit:

lisp?

[21:17:50]

lis0r:

well, scheme *is* one of my favourites

[21:17:56]

lis0r:

and lua isn't too terrible

[21:17:58]

lis0r:

don't get me wrong

[21:18:09]

lis0r:

some of the languages above are useful

[21:18:14]

lis0r:

and popular

[21:18:17]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: just a re-iteration of what youve frequently said, if someone develops something worth giving access to in the frontend, it may as well be done "properly" and written into the frontend

[21:18:23]

lis0r:

but that's not the same as them being *good*

[21:18:36]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: *nod*

[21:18:37]

EvilGuru:

most all languages are awful from a theoretical basis

[21:18:53]

lis0r:

like C – basically a macro assembler with some syntactical sugar and all the clever stuff crippled

[21:19:35]

lis0r:

bit of a lowest common denominator systems programming languages

[21:20:24]

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[21:20:28]

lis0r:

and C++ is more of an eldritch horror than a programming language

[21:20:56]

stuartm:

lis0r: there are lots of technically great languages, but clinging to them is kinda pointless when the rest of the world doesn't care and is using C++

[21:21:22]

lis0r:

bodges on a terrible object model, and duplicates all of C's functionality with incompatible byzantine insane equivalents

[21:21:28]

wagnerrp:

s/C++/Fortran/

[21:21:33]

wagnerrp:

s/C++/COBOL/

[21:21:35]

lis0r:

stuartm: *shrug* I've worked in indsutry for a decade and never had to touch C++

[21:21:54]

lis0r:

definitely had to dirty my hands with C, though

[21:22:12]

EvilGuru:

Now FORTRAN is a nasty piece of work, thankfully the scientific community is slowly moving away from it

[21:22:13]

lis0r:

don't see why anyone would bother with C++, frankly – might as well skip to the likes of Java or C#

[21:22:15]

stuartm:

new languages are created every other minute by people with far too much time on their hands, if they just settled for what was out there more might actually get done

[21:22:20]

wagnerrp:

lis0r: you havent seen awful object oriented programming until you try it in F95

[21:22:41]

lis0r:

wagnerrp: I've got a book on metaprogramming using C++ templates here that disagrees with you

[21:22:49]

stuartm:

but sadly that's human nature, to waste a lifetime trying to re-invent the wheel

[21:22:53]

wizbit:

i like the idea of using perl because of the massive cpan library

[21:23:22]

EvilGuru:

lis0r: That isn't OO though — and I do write/maintain a program that uses metaprogramming to a great extent

[21:23:36]

stuartm:

now Java is just awful

[21:24:03]

lis0r:

better than C++

[21:24:06]

wagnerrp:

i just cant stand how deeply nested you have to go to access anything

[21:24:20]

EvilGuru:

lis0r: Define better...

[21:24:28]

wizbit:

never use tabs, use spaces to indent in code, i have been told

[21:24:41]

wagnerrp:

wizbit: no, be consistent

[21:24:43]

lis0r:

EvilGuru: I don't even know where to begin

[21:24:47]

stuartm:

and C# ... windows only, what more needs to be said

[21:24:47]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is just consistent at four spaces

[21:24:57]

lis0r:

the only part of C++ that isn't in C that's not horrendous is //

[21:25:02]

lis0r:

or rather, wasn't in C

[21:25:03]

wizbit:

ok

[21:25:12]

stuartm:

lis0r: I'm sorry, but to me saying that Java is better than C++ is just trolling

[21:25:26]

EvilGuru:

lis0r: Well, in C++ I have overloaded operators, any scientific code would look like goo in Java

[21:25:28]

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[21:25:30]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so, maybe after 0.25, we'll be able to kill of the librarian?

[21:25:34]

lis0r:

er, yeah, overloaded operators are evil

[21:25:38]

sphery:

(with available season/episode data and such)

[21:25:57]

wizbit:

i love the way os x lion terminal can go full screen

[21:26:04]

wagnerrp:

sphery: all that means is it would get such data from the database, rather than from an external grabber

[21:26:19]

EvilGuru:

lis0r: I agree with you, they make code near impossible to audit, but they also make it maintainable

[21:26:21]

sphery:

lis0r: overloaded + operators = evil

[21:26:33]

sphery:

wagnerrp: but mythvidexport doesn't use external grabbers, right?

[21:26:48]

wagnerrp:

yes, it uses those defined for mythvideo

[21:27:05]

sphery:

ahh, didn't realize that

[21:28:01]

sphery:

I was just thinking that the only thing MythicalLibrarian brought to the equation (ignoring the "parses stolen video file names" parts) was using ttvdb to get season/episode information. I didn't realize mythvidexport did that, too...

[21:28:06]

stuartm:

wizbit: as you're probably figuring out, programming languages are a bizarrely emotive subject, the fact is that for the most part it doesn't matter which you learn as long as the end result works and is bug free

[21:28:12]

stuartm:

and it's not Java

[21:28:14]

sphery:

at which point, I have no clue what MythicalLibrarian is doing for him/anyone

[21:28:25]

stuartm:

seriously, stay far, far away from Java

[21:28:40]

sphery:

Java is (was) great... Just sorely misunderstood.

[21:29:18]

EvilGuru:

I know quite a few people who program in Java and are quite happy with it

[21:29:32]

wagnerrp:

it takes a recording, pulls XML data from thetvdb, parses it... poorly, either symlinks a formatted title into another path, or moves the recording and symlinks back, and then writes out another XML file in XBMC's metadata format

[21:29:42]

EvilGuru:

It is not a bad language, sure it is missing out on some features, but you can write good code with it

[21:29:43]

sphery:

(the was meaning that with recent versions, it's been corrupted into being just another terrible C/C++ abomination by adding in a bunch of stuff that C/C++ developers knew from their old language and didn't care to learn to do properly)

[21:29:57]

lis0r:

java was pretty clear and some core principles that seemed like a good idea at the time when it was smaller

[21:30:11]

lis0r:

but the conseuqneces didn't pan out so well as the language grew, making it rather? verbose

[21:30:35]

sphery:

Java 5 began the slide... Added in "ease of use features for developers"--some of which were great, but some of which were horrible

[21:30:49]

sphery:

Java 6 and 7 added even more ugliness

[21:30:52]

wagnerrp:

like i said before, java just runs far far far too deep

[21:31:03]

wizbit:

stuartm: aye indeed

[21:31:11]

lis0r:

the problem was they pandered too much to enterprise, and after the shock of C#, tried stealing too much from C++ and lisp

[21:31:19]

lis0r:

(though which language doesn't lift half of lisp?)

[21:31:21]

sphery:

(so, things like varargs, C-style (non-object-oriented) printf, static imports, ...)

[21:31:28]

** wizbit learns java **

[21:31:32]

wagnerrp:

for instance, im (attempting) looking through these new java bindings some guy has been writing for the past year... https://github.com/syphr42/libmythtv-java

[21:31:40]

stuartm:

I'm not even arguing that C++ is perfect, but it's not defective either (but can be in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to wield it), the thing is that it's widely used and that's a good enough reason to learn it

[21:32:05]

wagnerrp:

im ten folders deep for reasons i dont understand, and still cant find any real code

[21:32:36]

lis0r:

wagnerrp: the main problem with that code seems to be finding it

[21:32:41]

lis0r:

directory after directory of xml files...

[21:32:44]

sphery:

that said, I still think Java (and .NET--with either C# or VB.NET) are the 2 most appropriate platforms for the vast majority of enterprise development

[21:33:03]

wagnerrp:

everything is nested down in "<name>/src/main/java/org/syphr/mythtv/<name>'

[21:33:18]

lis0r:

stuartm: C++ suffers too much feature bloat

[21:33:20]

sphery:

though some other languages may be better for certain enterprise web or GUI projects

[21:33:25]

lis0r:

it's basically suffering the same problem as java

[21:33:30]

lis0r:

and the same problem C# will suffer

[21:33:32]

stuartm:

part of my distaste for Java and certain scripting languages probably stems from the fact that they are the first languages that inexperienced or inept programmers turn to, hence the work they turn out is terrible, bloated, crashy and worse

[21:33:35]

lis0r:

sometimes, it's just better to start again

[21:33:41]

wagnerrp:

and the vast bulk of what im finding are just interface specifications for introspection

[21:33:43]

lis0r:

rather than try and bolt more shit on to catch up

[21:34:17]

sphery:

stuartm: yep, that's been my observation, too... Most of Java's bad name seems to have come about as a result of bad programming

[21:34:31]

sphery:

"Java doesn't kill projects, developers do"

[21:34:37]

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[21:34:41]

stuartm:

lis0r: the problem with starting again is that all the code written over the past decade or more gets written off, which is a fantastically wasteful exercise

[21:34:57]

wagnerrp:

ive heard both sides of the argument over java's structure

[21:35:00]

sphery:

(granted, in some cases, the developers do what they can, but are prevented from succeeding due to other issues--like management, etc.)

[21:35:10]

lis0r:

*shrug* interlanguage bindings can exist

[21:35:19]

Roklobsta_:

wagnerrp: interesting on the serial formats. i think though some quality loss comes from recompression og decompressed mpeg2

[21:35:23]

wagnerrp:

the one side... "you dont have to worry about that structure, because a good IDE will autogenerate 80% of your code for you"

[21:35:49]

sphery:

note, though, that there are no good IDEs for Java

[21:35:50]

sphery:

:)

[21:36:02]

wagnerrp:

and the other side... "if your IDE is capable of writing 80% of your code for you, your language has too god damned much meaningless fluff"

[21:36:20]

sphery:

now, .NET has VS.NET, which is a good IDE that does a lot of the drudge work for .NET development... just nothing even close to its capability for Java

[21:36:29]

** lis0r is thankful she doesn't do programming that involves an IDE **

[21:36:52]

sphery:

vim + ctags ftw!

[21:37:06]

sphery:

(and a bevy of *nix tools, like find/grep/...)

[21:37:12]

lis0r:

completion is overrated

[21:37:22]

lis0r:

ack and cscope tend to be the most I use

[21:38:07]

stuartm:

if all those people creating and re-writing existing applications actually contributed original work to existing projects I'd like to think we'd be making much more progress – at a time when the government is encouraging school kids to learn programming I'd prefer not to see 2/3s of them emerging knowing the hip/cool/zeitgeist language of the moment which won't even be remembered in 5 years

[21:38:34]

lis0r:

language is irrelevant

[21:38:39]

stuartm:

lis0r: completion is a PITA

[21:38:41]

sphery:

IMHO, completion is wasteful. The same part of your brain involved in problem solving is used for visual processing, so when you pop up visual notices--like autocomplete dropdowns--then a lazy user decides to read that/scroll through/select the member they need, rather than just finish typing what they were already thinking about, it derails the train of thought and reduces productivity

[21:38:50]

lis0r:

any half decent programmer should take about 2 weeks to adapt to a different language, imho

[21:38:56]

sphery:

(or at least reduces productivity compared to a developer who actually knows that they're doing)

[21:39:42]

sphery:

yeah, language is far easier than APIs and frameworks

[21:39:47]

wagnerrp:

i like it when an IDE (or text editor) shows me where the corresponding bracket, brace, or parentheses is

[21:39:51]

sphery:

but the key is problem solving

[21:39:58]

sphery:

wagnerrp: %

[21:40:00]

sphery:

(in vim :)

[21:40:13]

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[21:40:18]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, all i know is its active, i dont know or care how to toggle it

[21:40:19]

stuartm:

lis0r: it's easier to work backwards from a language like C++ where you learn a lot about the principles and low lying stuff, than it is to progress from something like bash (bring us full circle to where this discussion started)

[21:40:29]

lis0r:

wagnerrp: I'll admi bracket matching has saved my bacon on occasion

[21:40:39]

lis0r:

though the C preprocessor always plays havoc with it

[21:40:42]

sphery:

of course, you can set it up to highlight corresponding brance (and most syntax files do in vim), but I like that I don't get bombarded with the visual cues that I don't need at the moment

[21:41:02]

lis0r:

stuartm: I dunno, low level languages also inflict "brain damage"

[21:41:06]

sphery:

% is actually "jump to corresponding brace"

[21:41:13]

lis0r:

I know low level programmers who just can't grasp lambdas, closures, etc.

[21:41:19]

stuartm:

still, no-one has mentioned Visual Basic and for that I guess we can all be grateful

[21:41:32]

lis0r:

or PHP, VB for the 00s

[21:41:33]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the only problem is when you run into extremely long functions

[21:41:39]

sphery:

hehe, I did mention VB.NET for enterprise

[21:41:42]

EvilGuru:

lis0r: It is equally sad how many new age programmers can not get their heads around pointers and recursion

[21:41:46]

wagnerrp:

and the bracket matching actually slows down vim's performance

[21:42:11]

wagnerrp:

EvilGuru: to be fair, a little recursion can be a very dangerous thing

[21:42:16]

lis0r:

EvilGuru: ah, well, that's the toy languages – with half the high level languages, recursion is the primary way you do loops

[21:42:26]

sphery:

ideally--in a modern block-structured language--you wouldn't have those extremely-long functions, but that's a whole other story :)

[21:43:35]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i dont see much of a purpose to breaking out a chunk of code into another function, unless you either want to reuse just that bit elsewhere, or replace just that bit in a subclass

[21:43:52]

sphery:

primarily clarity

[21:43:56]

lis0r:

and, depending on your language, it has it's downsides

[21:44:15]

lis0r:

function call overhead, for example

[21:44:30]

lis0r:

or even if inlined, some compilers will still concatenate the stack frames

[21:44:34]

sphery:

only if you have a brain dead compiler/platform

[21:44:37]

lis0r:

wchih is bad in constrained stack systems

[21:44:43]

stuartm:

if you ever want to contribute something meaningful to MythTV then you'll need to learn C++ and since this is the #mythtv-users channel, that's pretty much the end of the subject :)

[21:45:02]

lis0r:

sphery: it's very common that if you have an inline with an inline, the stack frames will follow each other, rather than recycle

[21:45:09]

sphery:

especially in Java and such languages (where you're running dynamically-compiled-at-runtime code), it can actually be a huge benefit

[21:45:10]

EvilGuru:

stuartm: I think there is some perl floating about in the build scripts/grabbers (they scare me!)

[21:45:11]

lis0r:

GCC does it, iirc

[21:45:52]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: the grabbers more or less exclusively

[21:46:04]

wagnerrp:

i dont think there is much of any perl in the build scripts

[21:46:15]

lis0r:

stuartm: that's why I'm only using mythtv til I can be arsed to write my own ;> lucky for you guys, though, I've just finished building my reprap, so I'm unlikely to have any time for that soon :D

[21:46:28]

wagnerrp:

and a good chunk of the grabbers are python (because they were written by the same guy)

[21:46:42]

sphery:

lis0r: my primary response to that--and all other "let's micro-optimize the code before we write it" concerns--is that you shouldn't ever optimize until after profiling (which means you can't optimize until the code is working), so you write code first for maintainability, then profile to find the bottlenecks and optimize them

[21:47:08]

lis0r:

sphery: meh, sometimes knowledge can make up for profiling

[21:47:29]

sphery:

and IME, the bottlenecks have /never/ been the microoptimizations (that are generally also very platform/architecture/system/compiler/... dependent), but have been much higher-level design deficiencies

[21:47:40]

lis0r:

for example, if I'm writing a scheduler that has to run in an ISR, then I know up front I've got to be damned careful about my stack usage

[21:47:55]

sphery:

(have never been the lack of microoptimizations/have never been something fixable by microoptimizations)

[21:48:53]

sphery:

you do still need to design your code properly, but optimization without profiling is generally a recipe for disaster

[21:48:57]

EvilGuru:

sphery: Depends on what you write, I have a piece of code which is 5x slower when compiled by Clang 3 than GCC 4.6 due to poor micr optimizations

[21:50:13]

lis0r:

I guess a lot of my code is different from yours though

[21:50:17]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: perl is the language I first learnt back before PHP existed, it was the de-facto language for CGI, I've never learnt python (only dived in to fix bugs or add the odd feature) so perl is really the only scripting language I know well – yet I've forgotten a lot too since I don't have much call to use it

[21:50:24]

lis0r:

I primarily work on embedded RTOSes and system libraries

[21:50:31]

lis0r:

microoptimisation without profiling makes a lot more sense there

[21:50:35]

sphery:

EvilGuru: that's compiler optimizations, not ones you wrote into your code

[21:50:58]

sphery:

EvilGuru: or if you're saying your code is written such that it only compiles on GCC, that means the code is designed incorrectly

[21:51:02]

EvilGuru:

stuartm: I guess I am a bit younger than yourself, as I got into PHP first off

[21:51:03]

sphery:

In general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization#Quotes

[21:51:14]

lis0r:

oh dear

[21:51:23]

lis0r:

that makes me bloody ancient then

[21:51:28]

lis0r:

since I started off on CBM Basic 2

[21:51:28]

sphery:

best of the bunch is W.A. Wulf's and Knuth's

[21:51:31]

lis0r:

>_<

[21:51:32]

EvilGuru:

sphery: No, it is just Clang causing pipeline stalls

[21:51:34]

trumee is now known as trumee_afk

[21:51:35]

sphery:

actually, also Pike and Jackson

[21:52:30]

sphery:

EvilGuru: by microoptimizations I mean specifically choices made by the developer writing the code to try to gain a tiny efficiency improvement (often at the expense of clarity or maintainability)

[21:52:42]

EvilGuru:

Oh right, no, that is nearly always silly

[21:53:14]

sphery:

and, IME, those efficiency improvements often add up to a huge efficiency loss when put together (especially with a capable optimizing compiler and/or platform)

[21:53:17]

stuartm:

lis0r: when I was a kid I briefly played with some variety of Basic, writing text adventures and that sort of nonsense, it was often a hugely frustrating experience as a single mistake buried in several thousand lines was difficult to find

[21:53:20]

lis0r:

bet you'd rather memcpy were microoptimised ;P

[21:53:36]

sphery:

not to mention the whole argument that computers are cheap and developers are expensive

[21:53:56]

lis0r:

stuartm: I got annoyed with it so learnt 65xx assembler, which probably explains where I am now

[21:54:23]

sphery:

lis0r: but memcpy was written, profiled, optimized... it's not just "off the cuff" "rule of thumb" type calls made by a developer before/while writing the initial code

[21:54:30]

stuartm:

heh, almost certainly :)

[21:54:49]

lis0r:

sphery: yeah: I'm the mug who writes memcpy and friends

[21:55:02]

EvilGuru:

memcpy is usually implemented poorly

[21:55:39]

sphery:

anyway, I'm the first to admit that I have very strong feelings on the matter--but they're borne out of the experiences I've had with code in general

[21:55:47]

EvilGuru:

(with the exception of the Apple C library — which is isn't too bad)

[21:56:37]

sphery:

I'll also say that a certain popular Java-based Web Application Server is written in C--using the Java language--by a bunch of people who are into the "micro-optimize and never profile" approach to development

[21:56:46]

sphery:

(it still works, but the code is a huge mess)

[21:57:16]

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[21:58:09]

stuartm:

I'm not ashamed to say I like the results of my work to be immediate, tangible and often visual, to go really low level just bores me to tears – but I'm still not the sort attracted by VB and relations, I still prefer a text editor to an IDE (although I use an IDE with most features disabled for it's superior search features)

[21:59:24]

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[22:00:09]

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[22:00:19]

Maro_:

Hey, could anyone help me diagnose why the Internal video player won't work? Nothing seems to happen after I select a video file to play on a fresh MythBuntu install. The screen judders after a couple of seconds and then everything is fine. Any suggestions on how to debug?

[22:00:43]

wagnerrp:

need to see some frontend logs

[22:00:56]

Maro_:

Where are these stored?

[22:00:56]

stuartm:

Maro_: look at the frontend log, /var/log/mythtv/mythfrontend.log (for ubuntu iirc)

[22:01:00]

Maro_:

thanks!

[22:01:01]

Maro_:

sec

[22:02:07]

Maro_:

Hrm ;o

[22:02:30]

Maro_:

read failed on the RingBuf

[22:02:34]

Maro_:

repeatedly, then it gives up

[22:02:57]

sphery:

then look at backend logs

[22:03:18]

sphery:

as that likely means that your backend isn't actually recording the file (or making it available if it's not live tv)

[22:03:30]

wagnerrp:

are these recordings or videos?

[22:03:32]

Maro_:

Its not a recording- its just an .avi I put on to test

[22:03:35]

lis0r:

I love the low level – was debugging the debugger corrupting the stack while stepping out of an exception handler – kinda stuff I get off on

[22:03:55]

Maro_:

I was planning to invest in a tuner card if I impress my flatmate with the setup ;)

[22:03:57]

lis0r:

reading the VHDL for the processor to debug the processors interrupt mechanisms

[22:03:59]

lis0r:

al good fun

[22:04:09]

Maro_:

Bad file descriptor (9)

[22:04:19]

Maro_:

hold on- I'll ssh in from here so I can copy the line

[22:05:17]

Maro_:

Oh

[22:05:21]

Maro_:

Improper Permissions

[22:05:31]

Maro_:

File exists but is not readable

[22:05:34]

sphery:

hehe, yeah, that would stop it from reading the file :)

[22:05:39]

Maro_:

How did that happen ;o

[22:05:49]

wagnerrp:

did you configure mythvideo using storage groups in mythtv-setup? or the local folder definitions in mythfrontend?

[22:06:04]

Maro_:

I did mythtv-setup

[22:06:18]

wagnerrp:

the the vidoes are streamed from the backend

[22:06:31]

wagnerrp:

meaning the user running mythbackend (likely mythtv) needs read access to those files

[22:06:44]

Maro_:

Ah

[22:06:51]

Maro_:

the files are in /home/<user>/Videos

[22:06:53]

Maro_:

bad place for them?

[22:07:13]

wagnerrp:

only if you dont give mythtv read access

[22:07:14]

sphery:

yeah, bad place

[22:07:36]

sphery:

in general, I recommend putting them outside of any user dir, as user dirs shouldn't allow shared access by multiple users

[22:07:44]

Maro_:

Right okay

[22:07:49]

Maro_:

Where's a good place? ;)

[22:07:56]

sphery:

put them at /srv/mythtv or *shudders* /var/lib/mythtv

[22:07:59]

Maro_:

We have a few terrabytes of media we'd like to put on if it all goes well

[22:08:03]

Maro_:

okay

[22:08:04]

sphery:

specifically in a subdir or something

[22:08:31]

sphery:

as far as Storage Group dirs go, though, don't ever put in the "root" dir of any file system (i.e. the mount point dir name)

[22:09:00]

Maro_:

Okay so to make a folder in /srv/ I have to use sudo- should I chown it to mythtv or...?

[22:09:18]

sphery:

always create a subdirectory on the new filesystem and put that dir in the SG dir list so that if the file system fails to mount, MythTV will see that the dir doesn't exist and ignore it (rather than write recordings to the parent file system and fill up your / or whatever)

[22:10:05]

sphery:

yeah... or: sudo install -d -m775 -o mythtv -g mythtv /srv/mythtv/videos

[22:10:07]

sphery:

or similar

[22:10:16]

wagnerrp:

sphery: that really only matters if you expect mythtv to write there

[22:10:44]

sphery:

yes, but after his flat mate is wow'ed, he'll be setting it up to record, too :)

[22:10:51]

Maro_:

Indeed ;)

[22:10:57]

wagnerrp:

not to his Videos directory anyway

[22:11:50]

Maro_:

okay

[22:11:54]

Maro_:

lets see if that's fixed it...

[22:12:04]

Maro_:

moved a file to /srv/mythtv/videos

[22:12:05]

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[22:12:07]

Maro_:

its owned by mythtv

[22:12:10]

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[22:13:19]

Maro_:

kinda interesting experience using a terminal on a 50" TV :p

[22:14:23]

Maro_:

...

[22:14:23]

Maro_:

Improper Permissions

[22:14:30]

Maro_:

Displeasing

[22:15:06]

sphery:

you move the files to /srv/mythtv/videos /and/ you changed the file permissions appropriately?

[22:15:52]

Maro_:

This is a fine point... but...well... Hrm. This is going to be a bit of a problem- the idea behind this is that my flatmates and I can all just copy our media over the network/with a USB stick onto a shared folder...

[22:16:21]

sphery:

then just set up the dir so that any file in it inherits the right permissions

[22:16:32]

Maro_:

How? Sorry, not a Linux pro ;)

[22:17:01]

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[22:18:30]

sphery:

something like: chmod g+s /srv/mythtv/videos

[22:18:51]

Maro_:

ty

[22:19:31]

sphery:

will make any file you put there inherit the dir's group, so if dir has mythtv group perms, new files will be owned by maro, but group of mythtv

[22:19:36]

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[22:19:53]

sphery:

so as long as group gets read perms, mythtv can read it

[22:20:36]

Maro_:

Okay, so I stuck a file in there

[22:20:46]

Maro_:

it has owner mythbuntu (the user on that box) and group mythtv

[22:20:54]

Maro_:

still says Permission problems

[22:21:28]

sphery:

would need to see specific error messages/log file

[22:22:02]

Maro_:

2012-02–01 22:19:44.355 RingBuf(/srv/mythtv/videos//Episode 1- Good Luck, Father Ted.avi) Error: File exists but is not readable by MythTV!

[22:22:03]

Maro_:

2012-02–01 22:19:44.438 RingBuf(/srv/mythtv/videos//Episode 1- Good Luck, Father Ted.avi) Error: OpenFile(): Improper permissions.

[22:23:20]

sphery:

and: ps -efw | grep 'myth$back\|front$'

[22:24:10]

sphery:

then: ls -l '/srv/mythtv/videos/Episode 1- Good Luck, Father Ted.avi'

[22:24:10]

Maro_:

is mythtv:

[22:24:11]

Maro_:

mythtv 4117 4116 0 22:13 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/mythbackend --logfile /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log --user mythtv

[22:24:25]

Maro_:

I have that up on my TV ^ :D

[22:24:29]

Maro_:

its mythbuntu mythtv

[22:24:35]

Maro_:

lemme get it on ssh to paste..

[22:24:40]

sphery:

ok, that looks good

[22:24:48]

Maro_:

-r-------- 1 mythbuntu mythtv 111525888 2007-11–19 05:19 Episode 1- Good Luck, Father Ted.avi

[22:24:49]

sphery:

mainly just needed the user part

[22:25:09]

sphery:

ok, the problem is that the file is readable by owner, only (mythbuntu), and not by group (mythtv)

[22:25:27]

Maro_:

so it should be like -r----r---?

[22:25:30]

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[22:26:06]

sphery:

so you'll need: sudo chmod 664 '/srv/mythtv/videos/Episode 1- Good Luck, Father Ted.avi'

[22:26:11]

Maro_:

Okay

[22:26:12]

Maro_:

uh

[22:26:19]

Maro_:

Is there a way of avoiding having to do this every time?

[22:26:35]

Maro_:

I mean getting the file working is great, but the idea is having a folder I can share on samba/have people copy to etc

[22:26:55]

sphery:

and you can set up the mythbuntu user so that all files it writes are readable and writable by user and group by setting the umask

[22:27:20]

Maro_:

Sorry to ask..but how/what do I google? ;)

[22:27:37]

sphery:

but not sure how *buntu wants you to do that... you'd want a umask of something like 0002 or 0022

[22:27:58]

Maro_:

Yay

[22:28:00]

Maro_:

it plays \o/

[22:28:06]

sphery:

0002 would make new files -rw-r--r-- and 0022 would make them -rw-rw-r--

[22:28:23]

sphery:

(and dirs similar but with x for user, group, and other)

[22:28:50]

sphery:

you can set umask in a single shell or script with: umask 0022

[22:28:59]

Maro_:

okay

[22:29:15]

sphery:

oops, got those backwards... 0022 would make files -rw-r--r--

[22:29:28]

sphery:

and you /probably/ want umask 0002

[22:29:34]

Maro_:

yeah

[22:29:39]

Maro_:

write is good ;)

[22:29:47]

sphery:

yeah, allows group write that way)

[22:30:00]

Maro_:

k trying ti with a n ew file

[22:30:05]

sphery:

you'll have to ask a fellow Ubuntite how they want you to set that

[22:30:19]

sphery:

or it may well be done when you create a new user for you, specifically?

[22:30:30]

Maro_:

Seems to have worked just with that umask command...

[22:30:36]

wagnerrp:

why do we keep getting the same protocol errors in ticket after ticket from centos...

[22:31:05]

sphery:

you mean the socket errors?

[22:31:13]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[22:31:17]

wagnerrp:

and only centos these days

[22:31:27]

sphery:

no idea what's different on it

[22:31:34]

wagnerrp:

its like its a kernel issue and all the other distros grew out of it

[22:31:49]

sphery:

Kevin K said he's using CentOS and it's working fine for him

[22:32:16]

sphery:

(well, within the boundaries of the possible interpretations of "fine" when it comes to ancient distros :)

[22:33:38]

wagnerrp:

well it was an infrequent occurrence in other distros when they did see it

[22:34:27]

sphery:

wagnerrp: isn't that ticket a dup of the other centos socket error one?

[22:34:34]

Maro_:

Bah. Copying a file across doesn't fix the permissions

[22:34:37]

wagnerrp:

very likely

[22:34:53]

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[22:35:29]

sphery:

http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10188 it seems?

[22:35:38]

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[22:37:04]

Maro_:

sphery, wouldn't it just be easier if I add mythbuntu to the mythtv group?

[22:37:28]

wagnerrp:

why are you giving mythbuntu ownership in the first place?

[22:37:46]

wagnerrp:

and not the user that matters, the user running the backend, 'mythtv'

[22:37:56]

Maro_:

Well we turn on the box, close mythtv, plug in an external hard drive and copy files into the video directory

[22:38:20]

Maro_:

And I imagine a samba share will also make files owned by mythbuntu, as that's the user account...

[22:38:38]

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[22:38:45]

wagnerrp:

the samba share will make new files using whatever account you tell it to

[22:39:20]

Maro_:

Well we can't really login as mythtv...

[22:40:14]

wagnerrp:

sure you can

[22:40:28]

wagnerrp:

use smbpassword to create a login for that account

[22:40:46]

wagnerrp:

or create your own independent samba accounts, mapping them all to the 'mythtv' user

[22:41:00]

wagnerrp:

or just make mythtv the user and group owner of the directory

[22:41:18]

wagnerrp:

and make mythbuntu, and all your individual user accounts, part of the 'mythtv' group

[22:41:41]

Maro_:

Yeah

[22:41:46]

Maro_:

I just did that last one ^ ;)

[22:41:49]

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[22:48:59]

Maro_:

Hrm

[22:49:19]

Maro_:

Still doesn't give group permissions when you copy a file from USB to local with umask 0002 set :/

[22:49:20]

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[23:02:02]

skd5aner:

sphery: mind if I pick your brain on DPMS?

[23:02:11]

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[23:02:31]

wizbit:

VDPAU is only a few days away

[23:02:47]

skd5aner:

then what have /I/ been running for years now?

[23:02:59]

wagnerrp:

modern hardware

[23:03:19]

skd5aner:

so what is wizbit going to run, post-modern hardware?

[23:03:38]

wagnerrp:

something only half a decade old

[23:04:58]

wizbit:

Â£50

[23:05:14]

wizbit:

core2duo 1.86GHz with a Nvidia Geforce 210 inside it

[23:05:24]

wizbit:

better than a atom

[23:05:39]

wizbit:

HP DC7700 ultra slim

[23:06:05]

wizbit:

http://www.onyougo.com/hp-compaq-dc7700-ultra . . . w0540220.jpg

[23:06:08]

wizbit:

sexy

[23:06:44]

wizbit:

most mini-itx cases are about Â£50, let alone for the bits inside

[23:08:13]

wizbit:

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/Sup . . . 00798902.jpg

[23:09:39]

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[23:10:02]

wizbit:

i been using the HP D530 ultra slim for SD for the last few years, been excellent

[23:10:05]

wizbit:

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/Sup . . . 00406696.jpg

[23:10:25]

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[23:10:55]

wizbit:

i might convert that box into a pfsense firewall

[23:26:44]

Maro_:

exit

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