Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, January 11th, 2012, 00:04 UTC

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[01:12:54]

sphery:

wagnerrp: cool... wonder how silicon compares to organic--if there are any benefits to that approach or if they're just doing it to get around patents/royalties in OLED.

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[01:17:18]

wagnerrp:

well the whole purpose of OLED was it was supposed to be cheaper to 'print' out the organic dyes in bulk than refined silicon

[01:17:27]

wagnerrp:

so well see when they start trying to sell them

[01:20:52]

wagnerrp:

sphery: any idea how a database table could crash while still in operation?

[01:21:06]

wagnerrp:

my backend locked up under strange circumstances sunday night

[01:21:10]

wagnerrp:

i recorded stuff tonight

[01:21:15]

wagnerrp:

erm, monday night

[01:21:30]

wagnerrp:

but NCIS just failed to record because of a crashed program table

[01:21:44]

wagnerrp:

i had to truncate it, rerun --dd-grab-all, and restart the backend

[01:22:02]

sphery:

only time I've seen crashed tables was with incomplete writes

[01:22:24]

sphery:

was it backend system or mythbackend that locked up?

[01:22:36]

wagnerrp:

neither, actually

[01:22:47]

wagnerrp:

they just stopped responding to anything

[01:22:58]

sphery:

oh, you're saying table was good even after the lock up, though

[01:23:05]

wagnerrp:

i could go down to the basement and scroll through the buffer on the local terminal

[01:23:15]

wagnerrp:

but i couldnt log in locally or through ssh

[01:23:19]

sphery:

not sure what would cause that

[01:23:24]

wagnerrp:

or run any commands on previously active terminals

[01:23:31]

wagnerrp:

or access any files through nfs/cifs

[01:23:35]

wagnerrp:

so i manually reset

[01:23:53]

wagnerrp:

everything seemed to be alright when i brought it back up, so i didnt think anything of it

[01:24:01]

sphery:

I've crashed tables on purpose (by dd'ing data into spots of the binary file), but I doubt any non-mysql process would be touching the data files directly

[01:24:12]

wagnerrp:

perhaps when MFD reran last night after recordings, writing to a broken table caused it to actually fault

[01:24:24]

wagnerrp:

while it could be read and processed by the scheduler just fine before that

[01:24:31]

wagnerrp:

or is it possible MFD itself did something bad?

[01:24:55]

sphery:

ah, yeah, if the table structure is corrupt, table wouldn't be marked as crashed until something causes a read around the corruptness

[01:25:02]

sphery:

(or a write around)

[01:25:14]

wagnerrp:

but the scheduler should read everything, right?

[01:25:34]

sphery:

corrupt headers would be noticed on any access

[01:25:58]

sphery:

but corrupt structure deep in the file might not be noticed for a while

[01:26:16]

sphery:

but something like mfdb--that basically touches everything, would likely "find" it/cause it to be noticed

[01:26:50]

sphery:

scheduler puts all sorts of where in place that may have caused it to skip over bad parts

[01:26:55]

sphery:

just guessing, though

[01:27:10]

sphery:

kor moc would be a much more reliable source

[01:28:07]

wagnerrp:

well heres hoping its one of the shows that gets re-aired

[01:28:22]

wagnerrp:

is there something we could run to scan the tables for errors on MBE startup?

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[01:45:08]

GrahamIRC:

hi all. does anyone have any hardware suggestions for a low-cost silent frontend?

[01:45:37]

GrahamIRC:

I plan to use a fanless nvidia 540 to handle h.264 so CPU probably doesn't need to be mega

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[01:47:43]

wagnerrp:

get a generic beige box, 3GHz+ dual core athlon II, 2–4GB of memory, discrete nvidia card

[01:47:51]

wagnerrp:

drill a hole in the wall or floor

[01:48:01]

wagnerrp:

put the box on the other side out of acoustic range

[01:49:13]

[R]:

lol

[01:49:23]

[R]:

is it safe to stick a computer in a wall?

[01:51:06]

wagnerrp:

if you think theres enough airflow through the wall

[01:51:14]

wagnerrp:

i was thinking more another room or basement

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[01:55:13]

sphery:

wagnerrp: you mean like [25426] ?

[01:55:13]

MythLogBot:

SVN 25426: (branch master) https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/278b7cad

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[01:58:33]

wagnerrp:

yeah, something like that

[01:58:38]

wagnerrp:

would be great if someone implemented that

[01:58:46]

sphery:

can't find the commit where I removed that

[01:58:54]

sphery:

(but I did)

[01:58:55]

wagnerrp:

ah

[01:59:19]

sphery:

the "my poorly optimized mysql configuration on my pogoplug takes too long to start up"

[01:59:37]

sphery:

removed by popular demand

[02:00:09]

sphery:

guess I didn't even ref the commit by number when I removed it

[02:00:24]

GrahamIRC:

I've heard of "wall mounting" but that's not really what I had in mind!

[02:00:45]

sphery:

GrahamIRC: this is "through-the-wall mounting"

[02:00:50]

sphery:

and I'm a firm believer

[02:01:06]

wagnerrp:

GrahamIRC: for example, i have one of my frontends on some wireframe shelving in the basement

[02:01:19]

wagnerrp:

with HDMI for audio/video and USB for IR being run up the floor to my TV

[02:01:30]

GrahamIRC:

hmm through the wall would put it outside

[02:01:39]

wagnerrp:

floor?

[02:01:53]

GrahamIRC:

would put it in the earth

[02:01:59]

sphery:

ooh, even better--usually the exterior walls have more/better insulation (including sound insulating characteristics)

[02:02:02]

sphery:

:)

[02:02:12]

wagnerrp:

do you have a bare TV or some sort of enclosed TV stand?

[02:02:15]

GrahamIRC:

not very practical I fear

[02:02:27]

GrahamIRC:

just a tv

[02:02:58]

GrahamIRC:

in all its naked glory

[02:03:24]

sphery:

note, also, that you can put it in adjacent rooms and run cables inside walls, or to basement/attic and back to wall, or even around baseboards/in conduit

[02:03:41]

GrahamIRC:

any idea what the slowest CPU I could get away with if using an NV gpu?

[02:03:50]

sphery:

but, yeah, cabinets or closets or ... (with sufficient ventilation) would work

[02:03:54]

wagnerrp:

GrahamIRC: you could find a last generation macmini

[02:04:03]

GrahamIRC:

I have a 540 and CPU is vitually 0% utilisation on hd 264

[02:04:06]

wagnerrp:

or you could build your own with a mini-itx board and M350

[02:04:07]

sphery:

generally, small and silent is diametrically opposed to low-cost

[02:04:14]

wagnerrp:

540 sounds like a dual core Phenom II

[02:04:16]

GrahamIRC:

true

[02:05:18]

GrahamIRC:

nvidia GT-520, sorry

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[02:06:10]

GrahamIRC:

current machine it's in uses 1–2% CPU when playing back hd 264 so I figure I can get away with not a lot of CPU

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[02:07:03]

wagnerrp:

assuming you have only h264 that is supported by VDPAU

[02:07:18]

GrahamIRC:

well my video collection is all h264

[02:07:52]

wagnerrp:

and you encoded them all with all the same settings? or they are all from an HDPVR?

[02:08:02]

GrahamIRC:

and live/recorded tv will be coming from an HD-PVR and DVB-S/S2/T/T2

[02:08:08]

wagnerrp:

if these were digital recordings that came in h264, there could be glitches that cause problems with VDPAU

[02:08:30]

GrahamIRC:

video collection is handbrake encoded 264

[02:08:59]

GrahamIRC:

not seen any vdpau problems so far

[02:09:40]

wagnerrp:

well the issue with hardware decoding is once you purchase the hardware, you are stuck with whatever limited decoding support it offers

[02:09:49]

GrahamIRC:

true

[02:09:57]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to software decoding where you can update your decoders so long as you have sufficient CPU

[02:10:11]

wagnerrp:

if you feel comfortable limiting yourself to hardware decoding

[02:10:12]

GrahamIRC:

but then I figure hardware follows sooner or later

[02:10:16]

wagnerrp:

and you understand the implications

[02:10:25]

GrahamIRC:

and I think h264 will be around for a while

[02:10:25]

wagnerrp:

you can get a little Atom system

[02:11:25]

GrahamIRC:

ok cheers, I'll have a look around

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[02:16:39]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so, it's really bothering me that I can't find the commit that took out the startup check

[02:17:16]

sphery:

guess I was upset enough about having to do it that I blocked all memory of even keywords

[02:17:42]

wagnerrp:

was it running into issues of other machines trying to access the database while mythtv was repairing it?

[02:18:18]

sphery:

pretty sure it was just poorly configured systems (and poorly-spec'ed systems) taking too long

[02:19:01]

sphery:

[25796]

[02:19:02]

MythLogBot:

SVN 25796: (branch master) https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/3303e295

[02:19:42]

sphery:

note, though, that we had since proved that there were no locking issues

[02:23:24]

sphery:

fwiw, it took 2s on startup on my system

[02:24:00]

sphery:

and my system is all myisam (I added additional code, later, to only check myisam tables)

[02:24:21]

sphery:

anyway, we just need to embed db

[02:24:46]

sphery:

and then send out replacement hardware to all the people who are using severely underpowered systems/database servers

[02:26:14]

wagnerrp:

whats wrong with people running database servers?

[02:28:11]

sphery:

hehe

[02:28:40]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i expect the embedded database is going to come at some point after recording duties get split out of the master backend

[02:29:02]

wagnerrp:

at which point they could just as well run their master backend (with embedded database) on whatever machine runs their current database server

[02:29:30]

wagnerrp:

presuming that someone who is going to have a dedicated database server is going to have it on some decent hardware

[02:29:41]

wagnerrp:

and not just some VM on their Atom

[02:29:43]

sphery:

I was trying to say underpowered database server, there

[02:30:15]

sphery:

meaning either mbe or mysqld or both are running on underpowered hardware

[02:31:07]

sphery:

but, yeah, embedded db will definitely exist in an app that can run anywhere

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[02:35:18]

** iamlindoro reiterates his hatred for NYC camera shops **

[02:35:29]

iamlindoro:

11 days, assuming it comes tomorrow

[02:35:53]

iamlindoro:

All because they had to wait four days to call and try to upsell me their stupid warranty

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[R]:

haha

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[02:56:18]

dchilton:

i finished a myth-setup of my backend remote, launched mythbackend (fixes/0.24), then attempted a mythfilldatabase — finding that mythbackend died off :-/

[02:56:28]

dchilton:

tailing /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log (http://pastebin.com/91M0aB5i) shows it dies at: "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'St9bad_alloc'; what(): std::bad_alloc".

[02:56:47]

dchilton:

This (http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/cpp/threads/189837) says possibly due to a memory leak or not enough memory ... the server is a VM with 2GB RAM. not enough, or likely the leak?

[02:57:22]

wagnerrp:

the bigger question, why are you running it in a vm?

[02:57:34]

[R]:

wagnerrp++

[02:58:16]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: because that's the option i have.

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[02:58:40]

wagnerrp:

surely there are others

[02:58:48]

wagnerrp:

such as running it on that machine, without the vm

[02:59:13]

[R]:

lol

[02:59:14]

dchilton:

it's a xen server, in use. i have one. no, that's not an option.

[02:59:44]

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[03:00:05]

wagnerrp:

running VMs is going to do nothing but cause hardware access to be somewhere between difficult and impossible

[03:00:12]

wagnerrp:

and for what, what does it actually get you

[03:00:34]

wagnerrp:

a bunch of additional memory consumption because your shared libraries have to be loaded in memory multiple times

[03:01:11]

dchilton:

it's accessing the hardware just fine. and i'm not interested in a debate of why i have/use a xen server. i'm simply asking about an error, and it's likley causes.

[03:02:38]

wagnerrp:

looks like youre telling it to start on a channel that does not exist

[03:03:16]

wagnerrp:

youre doing analog capture of an external STB through the modulated (coaxial) input?

[03:04:01]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: hm. it's an attached HDHR, 2ch antenna coax in, 1 ethernet card to the server

[03:04:49]

wagnerrp:

you shouldnt have even had the option of setting an initial channel

[03:04:54]

wagnerrp:

for it to complain about it

[03:05:15]

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[03:05:39]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: that's correct ... i had no such option. i simply ran the channel scan for each channel ... it found station with signal locks etc etc

[03:05:48]

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[03:06:19]

iamlindoro:

not with those channel numbers it didn't

[03:06:38]

iamlindoro:

so what ended up being your connectivity problem with the device autodetection

[03:07:21]

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[03:07:58]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: no idea. problem went away after build from sources. certainly not a networking problem. at least not one that i caused.

[03:08:13]

iamlindoro:

ok, so a package issue, good to know

[03:08:30]

iamlindoro:

anyway, where did the whole number channels come from

[03:08:35]

iamlindoro:

since those wouldn't be the result of a scan

[03:09:23]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: the only thing's that been done is a clean mythtv-setup, including channel scans, a subsequent mythbacked service sstart, and an attempt at mythfilldatabase. that's in.

[03:09:27]

dchilton:

er, that's it.

[03:09:51]

iamlindoro:

There's just no way that's exactly right-- you can't get whole number channels from a digital scan of a regular HDHR

[03:10:11]

dchilton:

cosmic rays, then, i certainly didn't add anything ...

[03:10:20]

iamlindoro:

Meaning you have a corrupted video source with non-digital channels in it-- possibly by using one which was once attached to an analog or dummy device

[03:10:33]

iamlindoro:

and by then running "Fetch channels from listing source" on it

[03:10:44]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: isnt that the setting for pre-tuning a certain channel when connecting an external tuner to a modulated input?

[03:11:02]

iamlindoro:

no, that's the starting channel, that occurs for everything

[03:11:23]

iamlindoro:

He's got a broken video source with non-digital channels in it

[03:11:30]

wagnerrp:

i figured starting channel didnt take effect until you tried to start a livetv session

[03:11:48]

iamlindoro:

which got that way by manually adding them or fetching channel from listings source on an analog device

[03:12:00]

iamlindoro:

nah, all devices are set to the start channel on BE startup

[03:12:13]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: "broken video source with non-digital channels in it". you're suggesting the hdhr is dead/broken?

[03:12:21]

iamlindoro:

No, i'm suggesting your configuration is

[03:12:25]

iamlindoro:

The HDHR is fine

[03:13:11]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: assume that that's the mythtv-setup process-generated config?

[03:13:12]

iamlindoro:

You have attached a video source to the HDHR, a digital device, which contains analog tuning information-- this can only be added to a video source by fetching channels from listings source when attached to an analog device, or by manually adding them

[03:13:18]

iamlindoro:

No, it's something you did

[03:14:02]

iamlindoro:

You need to delete your video source, start over with a new one, attach it to the HDHR in mytthv-setup, and scan (and *only* scan, never pressing "fetch channels")

[03:14:22]

iamlindoro:

The result will never, ever have whole number channels

[03:15:10]

iamlindoro:

Your current one does, and the only way that can occur is by adding an analog or dummy device to the config, attaching the video source to it, and pressing "Fetch channels from listings source", or manually adding channels to it in the channel editor

[03:19:15]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: got it. i can tell you that under no circumstances did i intentionally "fetch channels". i specifically avoided that this go'round ... BUT ...

[03:19:19]

dchilton:

... atm, i've got no mouse (just tabs & arrow keys) in the mythtv-setup, X11-forwarded windows (for some reason I have yet to figure out), andit's *entirely* possible that an all-thumbs moment caused something or other.

[03:19:48]

dchilton:

in any case, I will clean house (assuming DROP/CREATE the DB is good enough? or overkill?), and re-do

[03:20:00]

iamlindoro:

don't touch the DB, let mythtv-setup do its job

[03:20:01]

[R]:

thats good... because you shouldn't be using a mouse in mythtv-setup...

[03:20:14]

iamlindoro:

and as [R] says, you want to use keyboard for mythtv-setup

[03:20:26]

iamlindoro:

go into mythtv-setup and leave everything else alone, just delete all video sources

[03:20:32]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: well, at least i got that right ...

[03:20:33]

iamlindoro:

which is an option in the video sources menu

[03:20:38]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: will do thx

[03:21:00]

iamlindoro:

leave the capture card config, etc. alone, as that part is probably fine-- so better to limit the potential for further problems

[03:21:31]

dchilton:

yup

[03:21:33]

iamlindoro:

Then just create a new video source, set it up as Schedules Direct, put in your login info, set the correct lineup, and save it

[03:21:52]

iamlindoro:

attach that source to the HDHR in input connections by selecting it from the video source combobox

[03:22:00]

iamlindoro:

and hit scan for channels

[03:22:16]

iamlindoro:

if you do that, and only that, with correct scan aparamets and allowing it to finish, you should end up with something usable

[03:23:23]

iamlindoro:

All of that said, it's not absolutely clear to me that this misconfiguration is causing your crash, which can be/is often a sign of memory corruption too

[03:23:33]

iamlindoro:

but better to remove the known problems first so that there is no question

[03:24:10]

iamlindoro:

s/aparamets/parameters/

[03:24:16]

** iamlindoro wonders what happened to his fingers there **

[03:25:10]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: scanning ch0 now ...

[03:32:49]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: scan's done. so "insert all" for conflicting AND non-conflicting ATSC & MPEG channels? there *are* each of those ...

[03:33:05]

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[03:48:01]

sphery:

user (unnamed to protect the guilty) on -users list asks Devin H if he could look into a driver that's causing him problems. Devin explains why he can't/won't do so--where one reasons was that the driver wouldn't even work with current kernels. User replies with a thanks and then says the current kernel thing isn't a problem because he "merged code into 3.0.x kernel"... Anyone else have any guesses what might be the problem?

[03:48:25]

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[04:06:10]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: repeated the steps as above twice, just to be sure. in both cases --> http://pastebin.com/Q7rJPR67

[04:07:58]

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[04:12:34]

dchilton:

other than a complete DB dump, is there a "nifty script" that extracts the last mythtv-setup config created/modified, allowing me to replay/rollback the session?

[04:12:40]

tim:

Hello! Does anyone happen to use minimyth here?

[04:14:26]

wagnerrp:

tim: dont ask to ask your question, just ask it

[04:17:03]

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[04:17:14]

tim:

has anyone successfully gotten minimyth to sleep and resume from sleep without experiencing choppy playback on tv/video watching?

[04:17:17]

wagnerrp:

nothing to be sorry about, youre just not going to find many people using minimyth, but you may find more people capable of answering the question

[04:17:44]

wagnerrp:

what hardware do you have?

[04:18:02]

wagnerrp:

when you come out of resume, do you see high CPU usage?

[04:18:49]

tim:

the cpu usage isnt high about 36%

[04:18:54]

tim:

hmm

[04:19:00]

tim:

wait let me double check that

[04:19:13]

wagnerrp:

CPU usage is at 36% just idling there doing nothing?

[04:21:29]

tim:

36% was when it was trying to sleep using the screensaver hack

[04:21:31]

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[04:21:38]

tim:

i never checked when it was woken up

[04:21:43]

tim:

I am boooting it up now

[04:21:55]

tim:

and the hardware is a Zotac Zbox id41

[04:22:30]

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[04:22:38]

wagnerrp:

presumably youre using VDPAU for playback?

[04:22:58]

tim:

yes

[04:23:32]

wagnerrp:

check the frontend logs, see if there is any sort of warning about falling back to software decoders and xv-blit

[04:23:46]

wagnerrp:

perhaps the nvidia card is not being properly re-initialized coming out of standby

[04:25:12]

tim:

the cpu is at 99% idle

[04:25:19]

tim:

however it appears there is some lag in my typing

[04:25:20]

tim:

to telnet

[04:25:34]

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[04:25:35]

wagnerrp:

telnet? not ssh?

[04:25:47]

tim:

I can ssh

[04:25:52]

tim:

just have to enable it

[04:26:07]

wagnerrp:

i mean typically, linux distros dont use telnet

[04:26:30]

wagnerrp:

i guess on something designed for <250MB, telnet is a lot smaller than SSH

[04:27:57]

tim:

I do not see anything about xv-blit

[04:28:20]

wagnerrp:

anything to indicate vdpau having problems?

[04:28:40]

tim:

no but after i initated the sleep command

[04:28:44]

tim:

it wen to sleep

[04:28:47]

tim:

i woke it up using WOL

[04:28:52]

tim:

had slow playback

[04:29:03]

tim:

then i was checking logs and it went to sleep because of the 2 minutes

[04:29:11]

tim:

for screensaver hack sleep thing

[04:29:18]

tim:

now the playback is fine after i woke it up the second time

[04:30:50]

tim:

im checking all the logs

[04:34:39]

tim:

I see AFD error unknown decoding error

[04:38:03]

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[04:50:02]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: gone for the nite? if so, i'm off myself ... just didn't want to vanish

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[05:20:29]

fleixius:

Has anyone seen the CuBox? I wonder how well it would work as a frontend..

[05:21:48]

wagnerrp:

very poorly

[05:22:45]

fleixius:

You think so? Utilizing a beefy backend, it can't be that bad.

[05:23:43]

wagnerrp:

sure it can

[05:23:51]

wagnerrp:

just what kind of video do you expect it to play?

[05:26:50]

fleixius:

So long as it can play my broadcasted 1080i mpeg streams from my hdhomerun, I'm happy.

[05:27:23]

wagnerrp:

it wont

[05:30:55]

fleixius:

Their demonstration shows h.264 streaming @ 1080p. Hmm..

[05:31:32]

wagnerrp:

im sure it does

[05:31:48]

wagnerrp:

their demonstration does not show h.264 streaming @ 1080p using mythfrontend

[05:32:14]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend does NOT support whatever hardware decoder they use, and it does NOT have enough CPU for it to otherwise decode in software

[05:32:54]

wagnerrp:

until someone spends the time to implement a video decoder and renderer in mythtv that uses their hardware, their hardware will be a terrible choice for mythtv

[05:33:04]

fleixius:

^^ that's just a matter of development

[05:33:41]

wagnerrp:

correct, development that has not yet been done

[05:34:05]

wagnerrp:

so unless youre volunteering, or you think solidrun is interested in doing so....

[05:34:10]

fleixius:

Also correct; however, if the platform suceeds, who would not want a 100$ mythfrontend for multi-room setups.

[05:35:06]

fleixius:

It shouldnt be _too_ difficult as they have XBMC configured with hw decoding support.

[05:35:29]

wagnerrp:

personally, id rather stick with my $200 full PCs

[05:35:36]

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[05:36:22]

fleixius:

wagnerrp: 200$ thin-frontend?

[05:36:47]

fleixius:

pulling under 3w of power ;-)

[05:37:17]

wagnerrp:

pulling <3W when i standby it when not in use, sure

[05:38:02]

fleixius:

Are they provisioned as thinclients?

[05:38:28]

fleixius:

I'm weighing all options – rebuilding my closet when my home is finished.

[05:38:30]

wagnerrp:

you cant do thin clients with mythtv

[05:38:49]

wagnerrp:

home networking equipment doesnt have the bandwidth for it

[05:39:28]

fleixius:

Now that depends on how much functionality your looking to get out of the frontends, I'd assume.

[05:39:44]

wagnerrp:

more, it depends on your definition of a 'thin client'

[05:40:08]

fleixius:

There's more than one definition? ;)

[05:40:15]

wagnerrp:

apparently

[05:40:18]

wagnerrp:

a thin client does nothing

[05:40:31]

wagnerrp:

it just provides a terminal, or display interface

[05:40:38]

wagnerrp:

it runs no programs, it does no decoding

[05:40:46]

wagnerrp:

it just prints to the display output

[05:40:54]

fleixius:

Precisely, that's where bootable pxe images assist.

[05:41:04]

fleixius:

Bootable mythfrotends doesn't seem too much to ask.

[05:41:12]

fleixius:

LMCE is doing it...

[05:41:15]

wagnerrp:

which for mythtv means some 600Mbps for 1080p video

[05:41:30]

wagnerrp:

that is a lot to ask even of gigabit networking

[05:42:12]

wagnerrp:

now if instead youre talking about doing PXE boot and running mythfrontend on each of those clients

[05:42:22]

wagnerrp:

well then youre no longer talking about a thin client, merely a diskless one

[05:42:37]

wagnerrp:

in which case yes, all of my frontends are diskless

[05:42:46]

wagnerrp:

booted over PXE from an iSCSI server

[05:42:51]

fleixius:

^ exactly

[05:44:12]

fleixius:

That's why I figured I'd at least attempt to work on this Cubox..

[05:44:39]

fleixius:

Small platform, low power consumption, lots of features and its CHEAP.

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[05:45:33]

fleixius:

How many simultaneous frontends are you running wagnerrp?

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[05:46:02]

wagnerrp:

currently? three

[05:50:27]

fleixius:

Hmm, now the real question...my storage cluster needs some upgrading. I'm debating on pulling the switch for all of these raid controllers and begin using zfs pools

[05:52:19]

fleixius:

wait a sec, do you have IR receivers on your diskless frontends?

[05:52:31]

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wagnerrp:

yes

[06:14:46]

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[06:53:52]

dchilton:

what's a typical required RAM allocation for standalone mythbackend+mysql on a linux/64 box? i've found mention of 'minimum' 256 MB — but I'm seeing mythbackend crash with as much as 1536MB. increasing to 2048MB seems to cure the problem (http://pastebin.com/nF0mUMZ8).

[06:53:54]

dchilton:

Those numbers seem unreasonably large to me, especially compared to my usual small-server allocations. Is this typical, or can I somehow trim this down?

[06:57:04]

[R]:

probably your crappy vm at fault

[06:58:46]

wagnerrp:

right now, my backend is sitting at 11.5MB used and another 240MB shared

[06:59:11]

wagnerrp:

mysqld is 23.5MB used and 114MB shared

[06:59:38]

wagnerrp:

so somewhere under 400MB would cover both of them, plus the rest of a bare system to run them

[07:00:01]

[R]:

i have 2gb of ram and 1.5gb is cache

[07:00:29]

wagnerrp:

i have 4GB and 3.4GB is in cache

[07:03:09]

wagnerrp:

in other words, if you have anything more than a tiny fraction not being used for cache, youre probably doing it wrong

[07:03:10]

wagnerrp:

:)

[07:05:30]

[R]:

that's what she said...

[07:05:34]

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[07:07:55]

dchilton:

[R]: 1st time's mildly amusing. after a few more, it just gets boring to hear.

[07:08:24]

[R]:

which thing?

[07:08:29]

[R]:

about your crappy vm or the 'tahts what she said'?

[07:10:28]

wagnerrp:

the charm comes from its endless repetition

[07:11:44]

[R]:

come on... you set me up perfect for it

[07:11:57]

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[07:16:57]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: could i bother you for output on your box of:

[07:16:59]

dchilton:

ps -eopid,fname,rss,vsz,user,command | egrep " myth| mysqld " | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2,$3,$4}'

[07:17:04]

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[07:17:05]

dchilton:

for comparison ...

[07:18:40]

wagnerrp:

nope, didnt work

[07:18:58]

wagnerrp:

ps: fname: keyword not found

[07:20:41]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: you're on linux?

[07:20:58]

wagnerrp:

nope

[07:22:00]

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[07:24:07]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: somethign simpler then ... ps -eocommand,rss,vsz | egrep "mysql|myth" ?

[07:25:50]

wagnerrp:

still nope

[07:26:43]

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[07:26:51]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: really? just out of curiosity ... what os?

[07:26:53]

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[07:27:31]

wagnerrp:

freebsd

[07:28:14]

dchilton:

hm. didn't realize that that its opts were that different. interesting.

[07:29:39]

wagnerrp:

ps axc -o command,rss,vsz | grep -e 'mysqld\|mythbackend'

[07:29:39]

wagnerrp:

mythbackend 11476 246720

[07:29:39]

wagnerrp:

mysqld 22860 116336

[07:29:57]

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[07:33:23]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: ah thx. beat me to it ... mine's

[07:33:28]

dchilton:

mythbackend 12224 1879660

[07:33:29]

dchilton:

mysqld 47192 820704

[07:33:54]

dchilton:

huge diff in VSZ, but RSS not that far off ... hmmm.

[07:34:22]

wagnerrp:

active use of mysql would be enough to fill that with internal cache

[07:34:45]

wagnerrp:

do understand that VSZ is not necessarily used

[07:35:37]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: sure. i'm trying to get some sort of handle why 1.5GB RAM fails for me, and 2GB RAM works ...

[07:36:10]

dchilton:

coincidentally, that "1879660" falls right in the middle ...

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[07:48:09]

dchilton:

hm ... 1.8 GB RAM allocated fails, 1.9 GB RAM works. this makes no sense :-/

[07:53:05]

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[08:08:26]

kormoc:

dchilton, pmap -d `pidof mysqld` | tail -n1 and pmap -d `pidof mythbackend` | tail -n1

[08:09:09]

kormoc:

well, perhaps that tail should be | grep mapped

[08:10:29]

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[08:10:56]

dchilton:

kormoc: with the tail -n1 ...

[08:10:59]

dchilton:

258928K writable-private, 760440K readonly-private, 0K shared, and 48344K referenced

[08:11:01]

dchilton:

183312K writable-private, 1622580K readonly-private, 28K shared, and 10372K referenced

[08:11:36]

kormoc:

That's a lot

[08:11:58]

kormoc:

your readonly-private is a lot higher then I've seen it before

[08:14:02]

kormoc:

dchilton, if you want to paste bin the entire output of the pmap commands, it might be useful

[08:14:33]

dchilton:

pmap -d `pidof mysqld` ; pmap -d `pidof mythbackend` -> http://pastebin.com/1pnmcWZD

[08:14:47]

dchilton:

kormoc: thx ^^^

[08:16:31]

dchilton:

iiuc, that's a lot of mythbackend threads ...

[08:19:32]

kormoc:

how many threads do you have?

[08:20:16]

dchilton:

kormoc: just from looking at that pastbin output ... not familiar with what i'm looking at

[08:21:25]

kormoc:

Yeah, I'm not overly sure if the 65404K ---p sections are thread heaps or not (if they are, they shouldn't be RO), but they are eating up 1.3 gigs of your ram

[08:21:37]

kormoc:

How much swap do you have setup?

[08:22:25]

dchilton:

kormoc: 512M swap

[08:22:41]

kormoc:

does it eat up all your swap before it crashes with less ram?

[08:22:46]

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[08:23:49]

dchilton:

kormoc: nope. 'free' shows 0 swap use before, and after, mythbackend dies off.

[08:26:01]

kormoc:

limit -s shows?

[08:28:23]

dchilton:

kormoc: you mean ulimit -s ? if yes, -> 8192

[08:28:29]

kormoc:

yeah, ulimit

[08:28:32]

kormoc:

okayâ€¦ hrm...

[08:30:10]

dchilton:

kormoc: fwiw, ulimit -a -> http://pastebin.com/KjXMjs9q

[08:34:06]

dchilton:

kormoc: b4 & after 'free' -> http://pastebin.com/ciAHjsaQ

[08:41:45]

kormoc:

dchilton, cat /proc/`pidof mythbackend`/smap to a pastebin?

[08:48:40]

kormoc:

Welp, I got to run. Might be worth poking Beirdo about as well, something is odd

[08:48:48]

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[08:50:54]

dchilton:

kormoc sorry had to reboot to config with 'enuf ram' to launch mythbackend -> http://pastebin.com/SKZp4FBh

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[10:05:40]

rileyp:

has myth had anything to with ubuntu tv http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1006626

[10:06:13]

rileyp:

The guide looks very similar

[10:14:14]

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[10:25:34]

rileyp:

Hi all I'd like to edit this so that no new entry is made into mythconverg and the file is simply moved to my video folder and the original entry deleted

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[10:52:32]

rileyp:

I was thinking of ditching all the handbrake commands and switches and adding $command = "mv -f $file /media/sdc6/Videos/$newfilename"

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rileyp:

Ok I've had a crack at it http://pastebin.com/1sk3iFBX

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rileyp:

http://paste.scsys.co.uk/174494?tidy=on&h . . . t=Format+it! will this work?

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Guest44838:

Is it possible to run find orhans non interactively

[14:18:23]

Guest44838:

orphans sorry

[14:19:29]

Guest44838:

Would it hard to edit it so that it just deletes entries that are missing recordings because I moved them with a user job to my video folder

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[14:32:18]

birk__:

wagnerrp, are you available?

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birk__:

whoops

[14:37:56]

birk__:

i was able to get the transcode_stub.py working, mostly...

[14:40:19]

birk__:

it's not removing the original

[14:41:27]

birk__:

(and i'm afraid i might need a newbie's handholding on python)

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wagnerrp:

birk__: the 'os.remove()' should take care of that

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[15:15:57]

rileyp:

I'd like to create a script to move a recording to the video dir and rename it and remove the db entry as I find I have so many recordings I'm downloading movies I have recorded

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[15:18:50]

rileyp:

I have bits and pieces and with no perl or python skill I'm up against it. I can move and rename the file its just the sql bit that has me beat

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in^:

can I use an old ATI All-In-Wonder 7500 running Ubuntu 11.10 and MythTV?

[15:39:16]

wagnerrp:

almost certainly no

[15:39:41]

wagnerrp:

linux support for the tuners on AIW units is poor to non-existent

[15:40:18]

in^:

k, what would be a good standard def. card or usb to purchase?

[15:40:39]

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[15:40:40]

RagingMind:

wasn't the support kinda weird and built into the x driver?

[15:41:02]

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[15:41:19]

wagnerrp:

RagingMind: the very old AIW units had no capture capability

[15:41:33]

wagnerrp:

the playback software would paint a special overlay image

[15:41:51]

wagnerrp:

and the graphics card would render the video directly into it

[15:42:00]

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[15:42:06]

RagingMind:

in^, I have an ATI-TV-Wonder, it's a good bttv card, but I wouldn't recommend it going forward with the changes in tv broadcast standards

[15:42:08]

wagnerrp:

the video would never cross the PCI bus

[15:42:33]

wagnerrp:

in^: what are you trying to record?

[15:42:58]

wagnerrp:

'good bttv card'... never thought i would read those words in a sentence

[15:43:06]

in^:

tv from my cable box using composite connection

[15:43:15]

wagnerrp:

cable box using what provider?

[15:43:22]

in^:

Timewarner

[15:43:28]

wagnerrp:

eew

[15:43:36]

RagingMind:

wagnerrp, that's in comparison to another bttv card that I wound up with.

[15:43:44]

wagnerrp:

well that scraps that alternative

[15:44:02]

wagnerrp:

so yeah, get an old PVR-150 off ebay, and record svideo, not composite

[15:44:18]

wagnerrp:

or get a newer HVR-1600 or HVR-2250

[15:44:31]

wagnerrp:

or if you want HD, an HDPVR

[15:44:41]

in^:

are those pci devices>

[15:44:43]

wagnerrp:

that will record component up to 1080i off a cable box

[15:44:50]

wagnerrp:

the 150 and 1600 are both PCI

[15:44:57]

in^:

great

[15:45:07]

wagnerrp:

the 1600 can additionally record unencrypted digital

[15:45:33]

wagnerrp:

the 150s havent been manufactured in years, but you should be able to pick one up used for ~$20

[15:45:41]

awalls:

at the same time as analog in on composite. :)

[15:45:42]

in^:

like local terestial stuff?

[15:45:47]

awalls:

Yup.

[15:45:49]

RagingMind:

in^, is this an older machine? beware that not all PCI is created equal

[15:45:52]

wagnerrp:

s/composite/svideo/

[15:46:23]

in^:

it's about 3 years old

[15:46:32]

awalls:

wagnerrp: yes: s-video is better

[15:47:04]

wagnerrp:

even a 3yr old computer should have several PCIe slots

[15:47:17]

wagnerrp:

unless this is a mini-itx Atom system

[15:47:36]

in^:

no, it's an Intel dual core

[15:48:13]

in^:

what about USB, do you recommend?

[15:48:22]

awalls:

s/PCIe/PCI/ ?

[15:48:29]

RagingMind:

anyone have experience with SiliconDust HDHomeRun PRIME?

[15:49:23]

awalls:

HDPVR is USB

[15:53:09]

wagnerrp:

RagingMind: no experience, but i know a bit about it

[15:53:17]

wagnerrp:

the general rule around here is dont ask to ask, just ask

[15:53:33]

wagnerrp:

if no one is around, you never get answered

[15:53:47]

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[15:53:50]

wagnerrp:

if you ask and no one is around, chances are decent someone will pick it up in their backlog

[15:55:25]

wagnerrp:

RagingMind: i was actually considering recommending one to in^, except hes on time warner

[15:55:41]

wagnerrp:

so it wouldnt do him any good

[15:57:21]

RagingMind:

ah. I have charter and i'm thinking about upgrading to that sometime. cause right now I'm using the cablebox-->composite_in thing. it looks like poo

[15:57:49]

wagnerrp:

charter.... dont know about that one off hand

[15:58:00]

wagnerrp:

know anyone running a tivo series 3 or MCE?

[15:58:47]

RagingMind:

I've looked into it online and the charter help site says all except their premium channels (hbo/vod) are copy-freely

[15:59:09]

wagnerrp:

well then youre set

[16:02:36]

RagingMind:

at $220 I'm a little hesitant until I find someone that's making use of that copy-freely, and I was hoping to hear from someone with the prime on if they've discovered any unadvertised "quirks"

[16:02:52]

wagnerrp:

are you currently recording from a cable box?

[16:03:02]

wagnerrp:

well... you said you were

[16:03:09]

wagnerrp:

how much are they charging you per month?

[16:03:55]

RagingMind:

I think it's $5 for the box

[16:04:11]

wagnerrp:

thats it? is it an old SD unit?

[16:04:34]

wagnerrp:

usually theyre $8-$12/mo

[16:04:37]

likwid--_:

the prime on comcast is pretty swell. 1 dollar a month for the cable card.

[16:04:38]

RagingMind:

yup. I have the cheapest cable line up possible to get a discount on my internet

[16:05:37]

wagnerrp:

well anyway, you have the up front price of the Prime, but you will have a cheaper cable bill since you have the one cablecard, rather than as many as three cable boxes

[16:05:43]

dchilton:

i'm building a debug build to see if i can track down some RAM-related weirdness. reading the debugging info @wiki, i see no mention of valgrind, yet see it as a config option. is it likely useful to have valgrind enabled?

[16:05:52]

wagnerrp:

if you dont need three tuners, consider the DCR-2650

[16:06:08]

wagnerrp:

same device, a little more than half the cost, one tuner disabled

[16:06:49]

wagnerrp:

dchilton: 'enabling valgrind' basically means you ifdef off large chunks of the code that cannot be properly analyzed by valgrind

[16:07:30]

dchilton:

so leave it disabled ...

[16:07:40]

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[16:07:55]

wagnerrp:

unless it causes you problems, dont bother with that configure option

[16:08:58]

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[16:09:25]

RagingMind:

wagnerrp, is it new? when I was searching around a few months ago I don't recall coming across it. just the prime and the pcie infinitv thing

[16:09:40]

wagnerrp:

no, its been around for six months or so

[16:10:06]

wagnerrp:

its rebranded by hauppauge, SD gets the 3-tuner ethernet version, hauppauge gets the 2-tuner USB version

[16:10:13]

wagnerrp:

but internally, its identical hardware

[16:10:35]

wagnerrp:

and mythtv uses them both with SD's communication library

[16:10:42]

RagingMind:

I actually like the ethernet bit of the prime. makes it easier to connect to my backend system

[16:11:20]

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[16:11:21]

wagnerrp:

the inifinitv, the prime, and the dcr are all technically networked tuners

[16:11:30]

wagnerrp:

the prime is just the only one that is physically networked

[16:12:02]

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[16:12:54]

RagingMind:

my backend system has USB 1.0 on the mobo. yes I mean 1.0

[16:13:15]

wagnerrp:

uh huh...

[16:13:36]

wagnerrp:

i dare say you should be looking at a complete hardware upgrade before you make the jump to HD, or even three tuners

[16:14:23]

RagingMind:

dual P3 1.26GHz, until a couple months ago it was my primary desktop system.

[16:14:37]

wagnerrp:

that should almost certainly have USB 1.1

[16:14:59]

wagnerrp:

USB 1.0 has some quirky issues, and was replaced early on

[16:14:59]

RagingMind:

I've checked the manual several times, it says usb 1.0

[16:16:01]

wagnerrp:

in any case, those Tualatins are going to be too slow to commflag HD MPEG2 in real time (although slow batch processing isnt bad if your recording load is low)

[16:16:10]

wagnerrp:

but more importantly, scheduler times are going to be an issue

[16:16:22]

wagnerrp:

you just have the one input currently? how many channels and recording rules?

[16:16:39]

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[16:17:44]

RagingMind:

24 rules, any quick way to get the number of channels?

[16:17:55]

wagnerrp:

just an estimate is fine

[16:18:25]

wagnerrp:

basic extended cable lineup will likely be 50–75 channels

[16:19:23]

RagingMind:

I'm not worried about commflag. and 83 channels

[16:19:40]

RagingMind:

that's not counting the silly music stations

[16:20:06]

wagnerrp:

basically, more channels, more recording rules, more guide data (although everyone should have 2 weeks), more old recordings used for duplicate matching, more tuners used to schedule across, it all results in the scheduler taking longer to run

[16:20:24]

wagnerrp:

once your runs start hitting about a minute, it becomes disruptive to recording

[16:20:44]

RagingMind:

anyway to find out how long it's taking to run now?

[16:20:44]

wagnerrp:

the scheduler is largely single threaded, so the extra processor wont be much benefit

[16:20:55]

wagnerrp:

0.24 or 0.25?

[16:21:02]

RagingMind:

0.24

[16:21:11]

wagnerrp:

do you have mythweb set up?

[16:21:15]

RagingMind:

Yup

[16:21:35]

wagnerrp:

under normal logging, the scheduler runs are one of the few things that make it to the database logs

[16:21:43]

wagnerrp:

there is a very basic viewer in mythweb

[16:22:02]

wagnerrp:

that number of channels and rules and processor... im betting your runs are somewhere around 10 seconds

[16:22:29]

wagnerrp:

changing to three tuners shouldnt be a problem

[16:22:40]

wagnerrp:

but its something you should keep in the back of your mind

[16:22:52]

wagnerrp:

especially if you start recording a lot more

[16:23:52]

RagingMind:

the other reason an external tuner like the prime is tempting is because I know I'll *eventually* be replacing some of my current computers. and the ethernet connection I figured provided great forward compatibility

[16:24:49]

RagingMind:

where is the log viewer in mythweb?

[16:25:06]

wagnerrp:

top bar, far right

[16:25:08]

wagnerrp:

"Backend Logs"

[16:25:31]

wagnerrp:

should be the scheduler module

[16:25:56]

wagnerrp:

comment will be something like "Scheduled 92 items in 2.9 = 0.93 match + 1.95 place"

[16:26:37]

wagnerrp:

actually, that one is pretty abnormal

[16:26:54]

RagingMind:

I see a backend status

[16:26:57]

wagnerrp:

more common is something like "Scheduled 88 items in 3.1 = 0.08 match + 3.01 place"

[16:27:14]

wagnerrp:

the database lookup should be relatively fast, assuming the data is already cached in memory

[16:27:26]

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[16:27:46]

wagnerrp:

its the duplicate filtering and selection that takes a long time

[16:28:03]

wagnerrp:

to the right of "Backend Status" should be "Backend Logs"

[16:29:04]

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[16:29:18]

wagnerrp:

perhaps your database logs are disabled

[16:29:30]

wagnerrp:

in that case, grep through your text logs

[16:29:49]

wagnerrp:

grep -in scheduler /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log

[16:30:06]

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[16:31:24]

RagingMind:

doesn't return anything

[16:31:40]

wagnerrp:

does that file exist?

[16:31:56]

RagingMind:

the file does and I'm looking through it with less

[16:32:16]

wagnerrp:

it should be the same text as i was listing above

[16:32:23]

wagnerrp:

"Scheduled xxx items...."

[16:32:32]

iamlindoro:

your grep was for "scheduler"

[16:32:36]

iamlindoro:

versus Scheduled

[16:32:45]

RagingMind:

ah, there we go

[16:32:46]

wagnerrp:

ah, whoops

[16:33:06]

RagingMind:

Scheduled 69 items in 1.8 = 0.03 match + 1.82 place

[16:33:20]

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[16:33:21]

wagnerrp:

surprisingly short

[16:33:31]

iamlindoro:

probably a lot of "this channel" rules

[16:33:41]

wagnerrp:

usually cable ends up being significantly worse, because mythtv chokes on the hundreds of re-airings

[16:33:54]

RagingMind:

searching through all the log files in that dir the largest time is 3.5

[16:34:27]

RagingMind:

yeah... *all* my rules are "this channel"

[16:34:28]

wagnerrp:

do you record much cable, or primarily the OTA channels?

[16:34:48]

iamlindoro:

rules of that type are many many times faster to schedule

[16:34:56]

RagingMind:

you mean the major broadcast channels?

[16:34:58]

iamlindoro:

like, multiple orders of magnitude

[16:35:00]

wagnerrp:

yes

[16:35:10]

RagingMind:

cause I only actually get 1 channel here over the air ;)

[16:35:30]

wagnerrp:

major broadcast networks generally only air a show once, maybe twice, and rarely more than once per week

[16:35:47]

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[16:35:53]

wagnerrp:

where the cable networks might show a new episode half a dozen times before the week is over

[16:36:24]

wagnerrp:

when mythtv has to make decisions on which one to record, that takes a lot longer than if there is only the one instance to record

[16:36:30]

RagingMind:

mostly the broadcast channels, some PBS, and Cooking

[16:37:54]

wagnerrp:

or if for instance you have something like NCIS set to record, and have about 30 repeat episodes per week on USA to filter out

[16:39:30]

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[16:40:53]

RagingMind:

heh, nope

[16:41:13]

RagingMind:

mostly cooking shows :)

[16:41:34]

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[16:41:35]

wagnerrp:

of course thats also where a lot of that "any channel" overhead comes in

[16:42:33]

birk__:

wagnerrp: can you help me debug the 'os.remove()'? it's in there, but it doesn't remove the original .mpg, and the mythbackend.log just shows 'rm: cannot remove `/media/wd1.5TB/recordings/1021_20120111092600.mpg.100x75.png': No such file or directory'

[16:43:10]

wagnerrp:

uh... huh...

[16:43:19]

wagnerrp:

well that indicates a far more serious problem

[16:43:30]

wagnerrp:

for some reason it is trying to transcode a snapshot

[16:44:26]

rileyp:

lol

[16:46:28]

RagingMind:

so... it's Daily Show time :) thanks for the info

[16:47:05]

wagnerrp:

that shouldnt even be possible

[16:48:41]

wagnerrp:

birk__: could you open mysql and run 'select title,basename from recorded where chanid=1021 and starttime=20120111092600;'

[16:48:41]

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[16:49:21]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: you know, i considered pointing that guy at mythvidexport... but then i noticed he only wants it because he cant manage to control his downloading urges

[16:50:54]

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[16:51:25]

birk__:

wagnerrp: once i figured out the python syntax (and then the HandBrakeCLI command) that piece is good... it's making my .m4v... checking mysql...

[16:52:34]

wagnerrp:

birk__: i ask because looking at the code, it shouldnt be possible to fail in that manner

[16:52:52]

wagnerrp:

since all its doing is deleting the search path, plus the basename

[16:53:11]

wagnerrp:

1021_20120111092600.mpg.100x75.png should be the string it found in the 'basename' field

[16:53:17]

wagnerrp:

although i cant imagine how it could have gotten there

[16:53:59]

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[16:56:37]

birk__:

hmmm... mysql shows 'Empty set (0.00 sec)'

[16:57:32]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: do i remember you saying something about SD releasing a patch that would filter out the broadcast CCI stuff?

[16:58:46]

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[17:03:01]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Not a patch, but the latest firmware disregards the CGMS-A Redistribution Control Descriptor (what you're talking about) if it's used in an invalid way-- There's the flag part, and an info field-- the FCC says if the info field is filled, it's invalid

[17:03:03]

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[17:03:30]

iamlindoro:

Since many/most of the broadcasters that have it set have it set because it's default on their encoder and they don't know any better, that means the Prime with latest firmware "fixes" the issue for most people

[17:03:47]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: if you've a moment, following up to chat re: RAM-amount-sensitive mytbackend crash, does this gdb backtrace tell you anything of use: http://pastebin.com/T98rsYQ2 ?

[17:03:59]

iamlindoro:

If the company goes out of their way to turn on the flag and *doesn't* fill the info field, it would still abide by it

[17:04:12]

iamlindoro:

dchilton: I'm sorry, at work so it's tough for me to engage in much detailed troubleshooting

[17:04:29]

dchilton:

iamlindoro: np

[17:05:02]

dchilton:

anyone 'speak' gdb w.r.t mythtv and have a moment ?

[17:05:22]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: my understanding is that for most people, the latest firmware erase the problem entirely

[17:05:26]

rileyp:

Can I get CHANID and STARTTIME when I run a user job

[17:06:43]

iamlindoro:

dchilton: Very briefly (and I probably won't be able to follow up much) HDHRSH(101534BA-0) Error: Unable to connect to device is not good

[17:06:55]

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[17:07:47]

wagnerrp:

dchilton: are you actually able to discover the HDHR using the device ID with their command line program?

[17:08:27]

rileyp:

got it http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Jobs

[17:08:51]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: do you mean with hdhomerun_config? if so, yes. also, mythtv-setup also seems to correctly find/identify the HDHR by DevIC.

[17:08:56]

dchilton:

er, DevID

[17:10:06]

wagnerrp:

wonder why its not connecting in mythbackend, i was concerned it was having trouble with the virtual network bridge

[17:10:20]

wagnerrp:

the HDHR uses standard broadcast traffic for its auto-detection routines

[17:10:34]

wagnerrp:

its not standard multicast UPNP

[17:12:42]

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[17:14:15]

rileyp:

Mythvidexport.py Does this not change the file just move it and rename and delete from db?

[17:14:27]

rileyp:

I thinki ts what Im after.... Doh

[17:22:10]

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[17:31:14]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: that may have been (?) my fault ... i rinsed-n-repeated; THIS time I did a 'make uninstall' in addition to a 'make distclean' prior to installing the debug build. result -> http://pastebin.com/aJUCz2TC

[17:38:31]

wagnerrp:

i would run it directly within gdb, with 'catch throw std::bad_alloc'

[17:39:02]

wagnerrp:

the only visible error is in that bottom most thread, which does not backtrace to any MythTV code

[17:39:15]

wagnerrp:

everything else is in various forms of waits, polls, selects, or sleeps

[17:40:55]

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[17:52:52]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: any opinion on what should be done with all these channels.conf excerpts people keep putting on the wiki?

[17:59:14]

awalls:

Post a BNF syntax for each of the channels.conf variants instead?

[17:59:25]

wagnerrp:

i definitely see a utility in having some communal format for sharing scans, but considering our channels.conf import is considered broken...

[18:00:39]

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[18:01:53]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, i dont know if there's anything wrong with it besides EIT issues

[18:02:02]

wagnerrp:

which are of no consequence in the US anyway

[18:03:08]

wagnerrp:

awalls: i know there are a couple variations on channels.conf, but just how different are they?

[18:03:25]

wagnerrp:

i havent actually paid attention to any of them in maybe four years

[18:05:02]

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[18:05:14]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: re: the 'catch', it returns: (gdb) catch throw std::bad_alloc --> Junk at end of arguments. googling now, but — hints/alternatives?

[18:05:26]

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[18:05:38]

wagnerrp:

dchilton: honestly, im not the one to go to for any debugger help

[18:05:50]

dchilton:

np

[18:11:37]

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[18:11:37]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

[18:22:48]

awalls:

wagnerrp: I don't know the differences either.

[18:26:13]

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[18:44:41]

wagnerrp:

does AOL actually service anyone outside the US, and possibly canada?

[18:45:31]

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[18:45:38]

wagnerrp:

in other words, is it possible someone in france could have an AOL email?

[18:47:19]

wagnerrp:

looks like they offer free email now...

[18:49:28]

wagnerrp:

ooh! fancy! http://thugbot.net/spamlog

[18:51:32]

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[19:03:38]

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[19:13:53]

dchilton:

wagnerrp: after chatting with #gdb folks, this is the best i've been able to muster so far: http://pastebin.com/fujrtXZ7

[19:14:06]

dchilton:

is THAT, now, informative at all?

[19:15:12]

wagnerrp:

youve still got that funky channel issue

[19:17:25]

dchilton:

i quit. thanks for all the help. i can't do this ping pong ball bit anymore. i'm not a mythtv developer, as @ #mythtv almost immediately pointed out. tvheadend works just fine. moving on ...

[19:17:34]

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[19:17:57]

kormoc:

his memory issue really looked like a major leak or something strange

[19:18:17]

dekarl:

awalls, wagnerrp: http://paste.ubuntu.com/800927/ <- its untested but might answer some channels.conf wishes

[19:18:19]

kormoc:

he had 31 threads, but 21 64 megabyte chunks of memory that was unknown

[19:21:10]

Beirdo:

kormoc: those are usually per-thread blocks

[19:21:13]

Beirdo:

I dunno

[19:21:41]

Beirdo:

Unfortunately, I went to bed just before you pointed him to me, so I didn't get to do any live debugging :)

[19:21:55]

wizbit:

would a graphic card with more than 512MB ram have any benefits for 1080P playback?

[19:21:56]

kormoc:

Beirdo, but they weren't touched. it was ----p, which should have been swapped out or at least copy-on-write, but wasn't

[19:22:49]

wizbit:

this looks tempting

[19:22:50]

wizbit:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003B03OTA/ref=asc . . . N=B003B03OTA

[19:23:48]

Beirdo:

kormoc: how odd

[19:48:59]

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[19:55:41]

Unguided:

Can anyone tell me if mythtv .25 is considered to be beta and .24 is stable?

[19:56:14]

dekarl:

close, .25 is development and .24 is release + fixes

[19:56:50]

wagnerrp:

we dont really do alpha/beta

[19:57:03]

wagnerrp:

you could consider 0.25 to be beta once we hit the feature freeze

[19:57:15]

wagnerrp:

and then we do a couple RCs just prior to release

[19:59:44]

Unguided:

Ok. Ive been reading the wiki. i showed my wife what i had been working on with mythv and she likes it just doesnt like the themes. she like something like boxee has. how can i get both the interface and mythv so i can move forward with this? any ideas?

[20:00:12]

wagnerrp:

which themes have you looked at?

[20:00:26]

wagnerrp:

mythtv only ships with two themes, the blue one and the brown one

[20:00:48]

wagnerrp:

there are several more available through the theme chooser, which will be automatically downloaded

[20:02:46]

Unguided:

i downloaded from theme chooser. i forget the name of the one that begins with a i think its arclight? or something like that. I assume the metadata does the show image lookup etc like boxee? can i add a plugin on the main screen to link to boxee? that could passify her.

[20:03:13]

wagnerrp:

i dont know how boxee does the show image lookups

[20:03:33]

wagnerrp:

mythtv 0.25 will do it for shows, 0.24 and previous will do it for mythvideo content as well

[20:03:41]

wagnerrp:

but i cant say it does it in the same manner as boxee

[20:05:03]

Unguided:

ok. so i should consider 0.25 as bleeding edge while 0.24 is stable. so 0.25 will look up say survivor and get the show image, info, etc?

[20:05:29]

wagnerrp:

yikes, power surge

[20:06:10]

wagnerrp:

Unguided: mythtv has this strange little quirk

[20:06:32]

Unguided:

ok whats that?

[20:06:34]

wagnerrp:

it has this 'quality filter' and we cant understand why its doing it

[20:06:52]

wagnerrp:

shows that have gone on far too long and need to be cancelled, like survivor, just wont record

[20:07:01]

wagnerrp:

its like mythtv is developing sentience

[20:08:31]

Unguided:

joke right! I cant help my wife likes survivor. i personally hate it. im a Monday night football, hockey kind of guy myself.

[20:08:55]

likwid--_:

is every recording made considered auto-expirable?

[20:09:13]

kormoc:

likwid--_, if you set it to be, yes

[20:09:17]

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[20:09:18]

wagnerrp:

likwid--_: by default, new recording rules are set as auto-expirable

[20:09:35]

wagnerrp:

any recording made with a rule set to expire will be expirable unless you manually tell it otherwise

[20:09:53]

likwid--_:

that explains: Space Used by Auto-expirable Recordings: 577,499 MB

[20:10:08]

wagnerrp:

Unguided: 0.24 verses 0.25, its up to you whether to live with the potential instabilities that come with using developmental grade hardware

[20:10:32]

wagnerrp:

people arent so strict on testing the changes dont break on other platforms, or in other areas of the code

[20:10:55]

wagnerrp:

people sometimes intentionally break stuff if theyre going to replace a chunk of code with a functional version later

[20:11:06]

likwid--_:

if i go to each recording rule and uncheck 'auto-expire', does that prevent previously recorded shows from expiring?

[20:11:16]

wagnerrp:

bugs spring up, with limited testing

[20:11:43]

wagnerrp:

0.24 is recommended, but youre free to run 0.25 if you wish

[20:12:13]

wagnerrp:

understand that if you do, you're expected to have some amount of technical proficiency to fix problems without coming in here or the mailing list for help

[20:12:42]

wagnerrp:

likwid--_: no, once recordings have been recorded, they have little link back to the recording rule that made them

[20:13:25]

Unguided:

well that decides it. im to new a user to jump off the cliff rather then standing on the edge of it

[20:13:30]

likwid--_:

ok thanks.

[20:13:35]

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[20:15:09]

Unguided:

I will stay on 0.24 Also, wagnerrp thanks you so much for all of your help the last couple of weeks helping me to get up and running. i appreciate you, the team and mythtv. THANK YOU.

[20:27:08]

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[20:38:04]

likwid--_:

wagnerrp: ive removed auto-expire from each recording rule I have. am I just waiting for the scheduler to run before the value of auto-expirable space is updated?

[20:38:44]

wagnerrp:

no, as those existing recordings are still expirable

[20:38:49]

likwid--_:

oh wait. you said "no" to my previous question.. which meant r.......

[20:38:49]

likwid--_:

right

[20:38:56]

wagnerrp:

that flag only ever gets set by the rule once, when it is recorded

[20:39:09]

wagnerrp:

do you simply not want to ever autoexpire anything?

[20:40:54]

likwid--_:

update recorded set autoexpire = 0; will that do it or is the flag set elsewhere

[20:41:08]

likwid--_:

i want to be the only one that deletes

[20:41:12]

wagnerrp:

maybe, im not sure off hand

[20:41:18]

likwid--_:

so yes to your question.

[20:41:26]

wagnerrp:

i was actually going to suggest using the startup flag that turns off that chunk of code

[20:42:42]

likwid--_:

ooo

[20:48:54]

justinh:

yeah, have nothing expire, ever, forget to delete stuff & end up with your missus whining cos her stories didn't record :-)

[20:50:08]

likwid--_:

i dont 'set it and forget it' concerning my myth box

[20:53:02]

justinh:

for stuff that records frequently – i.e. soaps.. we have max episodes enabled. she doesn't watch em in time, TOUGH

[20:53:42]

wagnerrp:

but then you have to buy those little magazines at the market telling you what you missed

[20:54:00]

justinh:

bah, setting it & forgetting it is kind of essential if you want to be the type of mythtv user who isn't constantly having to prod stuff. contrary to popular belief mythtv needn't be a full-time hobby ;)

[20:54:42]

justinh:

mythtv is prolly the least tended-to appliance in this house

[20:55:23]

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[20:55:35]

wizbit:

justinh: will you buy a dvb-t2 card?

[20:55:57]

justinh:

why would I want one? I don't have a HDTV

[20:56:12]

justinh:

we're not getting HD here til the current TV dies

[20:56:24]

wizbit:

that could be years and years

[20:56:30]

justinh:

so?

[20:56:53]

wizbit:

i might wait for a pci dvb-t2 card

[20:56:55]

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[20:56:58]

wizbit:

dual tuner

[20:57:12]

wizbit:

and for Mythtv 1.0 to be released

[20:57:19]

wagnerrp:

why would you buy a PCI card in this day and age?

[20:57:29]

wizbit:

or pci express

[20:57:29]

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[20:57:29]

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[20:58:05]

justinh:

anyway, if my plan goes ahead this year there'd be little point in putting a dish up :-D

[20:58:31]

wizbit:

what is your plan? move?

[20:58:47]

justinh:

get a new job, move the hell out of this rainy city

[20:59:04]

wizbit:

i feel the same, i dislike essex

[20:59:10]

wizbit:

and the people

[21:00:27]

justinh:

yeh well, first sniff of a job we're moving back to the *proper* North

[21:00:50]

wizbit:

aye nice

[21:01:12]

wizbit:

should be cheaper up north

[21:01:13]

Beirdo:

to Norway?

[21:01:49]

wagnerrp:

too bleak, you want someplace that sounds nice, like greenland

[21:02:07]

Beirdo:

northern Lapland... raise reindeer

[21:02:13]

justinh:

lol no

[21:02:31]

justinh:

Manchester isn't *real* North. You have to go past Leeds to find that

[21:04:04]

likwid--_:

so i updated autoexpire flag in recorded table to 0 for 1 show. space used decreased for autoexpirable recordings in mythweb/status showed instantly.

[21:05:28]

likwid--_:

just hope wahtever scheduler there is that does the expiration only looks there

[21:05:32]

likwid--_:

ill take my chances :)

[21:05:51]

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[21:06:15]

Redwire1995:

Hello, I have a question. Does the ATI TV Wonder HD 750 work on MythTV?

[21:06:20]

Redwire1995:

It's USB.

[21:06:42]

wagnerrp:

no, mythtv has no inherent support for that device

[21:06:46]

wagnerrp:

mythtv does support the linux DVB API

[21:06:58]

justinh:

so if it works in linux...

[21:07:01]

wagnerrp:

so if ATI or the linuxtv project provides drivers that use that API

[21:07:03]

wagnerrp:

then mythtv can use it

[21:07:08]

wagnerrp:

!url tuners

[21:07:08]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[21:07:50]

Redwire1995:

hmmm

[21:07:58]

Redwire1995:

does LinuxTV have a IRC channel?>

[21:08:05]

wagnerrp:

try #linuxtv

[21:08:09]

Redwire1995:

Alright

[21:10:30]

wagnerrp:

Redwire1995: what content are you trying to record?

[21:11:19]

wagnerrp:

broadcast TV? or do you intend to record your brighthouse cable?

[21:11:36]

Redwire1995:

broadcast. im making a home-made DVR out of my laptop.

[21:12:18]

wagnerrp:

do you already have this tuner, or were you looking to purchase?

[21:12:31]

Redwire1995:

i already have it. i used it when i had Win7 installed.

[21:13:25]

wagnerrp:

well try with the linuxtv people, theyll probably say no

[21:13:39]

wagnerrp:

support for ATI tuners and AIW cards is generally poor

[21:13:49]

wagnerrp:

for that matter, support for anything ATI in linux is generally poor

[21:14:18]

skd5aner:

"wait for mythtv 1.0 to be released"? By this rate, that would be between 1 and infinity years from now... since the releases aren't necessarily clicking up to a 1.0

[21:14:27]

Redwire1995:

i also have a pinnacle 880e, it said it had experimental support, but the article hadn't been updated since 2008 so :/

[21:15:00]

wagnerrp:

experimental support in 2008 likely means functional and built into any modern kernel by now

[21:15:13]

Redwire1995:

ok

[21:15:30]

wagnerrp:

plug it in, see what happens

[21:15:37]

wagnerrp:

if youre lucky, it should "just work"

[21:15:50]

wagnerrp:

youll find messages about hardware and firmwares loading in `dmesg`

[21:16:04]

wagnerrp:

and should see a new /dev/dvb/adapter0 folder

[21:16:43]

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[21:16:47]

wagnerrp:

if that folder shows up, then barring a buggy driver, mythtv should be capable of using it

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuartm

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[22:07:03]

wizbit:

low profile, single slot, http://www.ebuyer.com/265014-zotac-geforce-21 . . . zt-20309-10l

[22:07:07]

wizbit:

perfect :d

[22:07:43]

Beirdo:

WTF?

[22:07:44]

** wizbit starts the journey into HD **

[22:07:58]

wizbit:

sup?

[22:08:09]

Beirdo:

some yutz does not know how to use linked-in, it seems

[22:08:21]

Beirdo:

sent an invite to the mythtv-users mailing list?!

[22:08:56]

wizbit:

is it worth using a gfx card with a low noise fan instead of a fanless card ?

[22:08:57]

dekarl:

Beirdo, isn't that some mechanism that writes out to your whole address book?

[22:09:10]

Beirdo:

it asks you

[22:09:35]

dekarl:

hmm, let me guess "go ahead" is preselected? ;)

[22:09:59]

Beirdo:

could be, I haven't done that for quite some time

[22:10:43]

wagnerrp:

how would it even have access to your address book?

[22:18:31]

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[22:27:09]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, you give it your username and password

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[22:28:25]

wagnerrp:

yes, but there is only an option to change the password, not the username

[22:28:52]

kormoc:

huh?

[22:29:23]

wagnerrp:

oh, i thought you were talking about the wiki

[22:29:36]

wagnerrp:

i just corrected someone who said the username and password for the backend setup were hard coded

[22:29:58]

wagnerrp:

username and password to what?

[22:30:46]

wagnerrp:

there is no standard 'address book' that linked in could access to spam out join messages

[22:31:14]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, it supports the common web mail interfaces to scrape for join messages

[22:31:18]

kormoc:

gmail/yahoo/hotmail/etc

[22:31:36]

kormoc:

and you can upload addressbook.app dumps, and I'm sure there's a way for outlook too

[22:31:55]

wagnerrp:

what kind of idiot would ever hand out their logins to a service like that?

[22:32:18]

kormoc:

a epic ton

[22:32:41]

dekarl:

if they have something similar to the facebook app it'll just grab them once you allow that on your phone :)

[22:42:24]

Beirdo:

heh, it's not as pervasive as facebook apps

[22:42:49]

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[22:56:49]

stuartm:

I don't even understand why people would use services like gmail and facebook which make money from snooping on your life and private email, nevermind the services which parasite off those

[22:57:08]

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[22:59:54]

Beirdo:

ugh, my coworkers are being stoopid

[22:59:58]

stuartm:

abd yeah, before anyone says it, I know I'm a Luddite

[23:00:03]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:00:21]

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[23:11:34]

kormoc:

stuartm, but they add *value*!!! What that value is, we don't know, but they add it!

[23:16:28]

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[23:21:54]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:22:08]

Beirdo:

well, one value for gmail... I don't have to run my own mail service

[23:22:28]

Beirdo:

now, that may not be enough value for you, or it might be :)

[23:22:35]

stuartm:

they add value to the balance sheet of a multinational ;)

[23:23:04]

Beirdo:

that is also true :)

[23:23:53]

stuartm:

Beirdo: I pay for mine, or rather I pay for shared hosting which comes with mail etc

[23:24:10]

stuartm:

I'm not saying that works for everyone, it just happens to be fine for me

[23:24:42]

Beirdo:

aye

[23:24:44]

stuartm:

and for many people their ISP offers email (inc webmail for all the big ISPs)

[23:25:00]

Beirdo:

yeah, and they are no better than gmail for snooping

[23:25:28]

stuartm:

sadly true, my ISP even using google for their webmail :(

[23:26:09]

stuartm:

it wasn't always the case that ISPs snooped, but I can't pretend that things haven't gone downhill

[23:26:38]

Beirdo:

yeah, especially in the US, where by court order, they can be told to not delete any user email too

[23:26:47]

Beirdo:

sucktacular

[23:33:10]

stuartm:

you have to go out of your way to avoid state snooping, but at least I have the satisfaction of knowing that my email isn't helping advertisers sell crap to me

[23:34:28]

Beirdo:

of course, the best way is to purchase a remote ranch in Wyoming or something, and get the heck off hte internet

[23:34:32]

Beirdo:

but where's the fun in that?

[23:34:54]

stuartm:

the irony is that your average terrorist or political dissident can easily circumvent all the state snooping, the fact that most don't is just one demonstration of how stoopid this so called 'enemy' really is

[23:35:11]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:40:47]

stuartm:

of all the Islamic terrorist related events in the UK, most have made the stars of shows like America's dumbest criminals look like geniuses – from plots to smear car door handles with ricin to car bombers who filled vehicles with propane cylinders but didn't realise that in the close confines of a car that there isn't enough oxygen to cause even a minor explosion

[23:41:31]

Beirdo:

just enough to asphixiate the driver

[23:42:05]

stuartm:

those last lot just succeeded in setting themselves on fire and they were M.D.s (which neatly illustrates that any idiot can become a doctor)

[23:42:21]

Beirdo:

jeez

[23:42:45]

Beirdo:

Beavis & Butthead doing terrorism

[23:44:04]

Beirdo:

oh, for that animation stuff, sounds neat. We need to get the mythgallery effects into core, not sure if they'd fit into that scheme at all

[23:44:50]

stuartm:

ricin btw cannot be absorbed through the skin, would take tonnes of caster beans to produce enough toxin and is extremely difficult to prepare – if they cared to watch the news they'd see that it would be more effective and idiotically simple to drive a ordinary car into a crowd

[23:45:20]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:45:40]

Beirdo:

put a brick on the accelerator, a club on the steering wheel and bail

[23:48:56]

stuartm:

a serial killer more often succeeds in terms of causing panic and terror without ever being caught, striking individuals at random over a long period is more effective than a single explosive event which kills the perpetrator – but none of this occurs to your average terrorist, they just aren't that bright

[23:49:32]

Beirdo:

good thing we aren't that disgruntled

[23:49:44]

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[23:49:47]

stuartm:

it's our governments sadly who create the 'terror' associated with terrorism by giving these guys more credit than they deserve

[23:49:55]

Beirdo:

and the media

[23:49:56]

stuartm:

Beirdo: :)

[23:53:13]

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[23:54:44]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: the difference is that your serial killer is a mysterious figure out for them selves

[23:54:54]

wagnerrp:

while the terrorist wants to be known, or else youll never know about their cause

[23:55:02]

wagnerrp:

and if youre known, you get caught

[23:55:03]

stuartm:

they refer to Al-qaeda etc as though they are huge and organised shadowy outfit like SPECTRE from the early Bond films

[23:55:38]

wagnerrp:

come now, SPECTRE was handily defeated by the worlds worst spy

[23:55:48]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: lots of serial killers have contacted the press, sent manifestos etc without being caught – Son of Sam for example

[23:55:58]

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[23:58:49]

stuartm:

before I give any budding terrorists any more ideas I'll go to bed ;)

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