Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Sunday, January 1st, 2012, 00:04 UTC

[00:04:36]

stuartm:

I'll never understand why anyone would pay good money for blu-ray making the most of that 25–50GB format and then transcode it down to something that will fit on a CD-R, not even DVD quality

[00:05:22]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: he was actually referring to recordings

[00:05:43]

stuartm:

same thing though

[00:05:56]

wagnerrp:

sure, but theres no money spenty

[00:07:03]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: true, although there's paying for the subscription to get those HD channels and the hardware capable of capturing/recording them

[00:22:54]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: i dont know why you would be satisfied with 480p on a 50" screen, especially when youre coming from a much higher quality source

[00:23:58]

wagnerrp:

CiaranG: according to the history, i fixed that issue nearly a year ago

[00:24:02]

wagnerrp:

i honestly dont remember anything about it

[00:29:27]

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[00:54:01]

pyther:

Hello

[00:54:28]

pyther:

Is there a way I can get the channel name / call letters in the OSD? (Like ABCF or FOX)?

[00:55:19]

[R]:

edit the theme/switch themes

[00:57:06]

pyther:

[R]: Are you aware of a theme that includes the channel call letters?

[00:57:27]

[R]:

one i used to use had it

[00:57:29]

[R]:

dunno what it was

[01:01:12]

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[03:05:40]

rileyp:

when I type this from a terminal it works but in a script it doesnt whats wrong? echo -e "VOLM20 \r" > /dev/ttyUSB0

[03:06:24]

[R]:

"it doesn't" means...

[03:06:47]

[R]:

and what type of script?

[03:10:11]

rileyp:

its a shell script and all i want it to do is what it does from a terminal. It doesnt means the tv does not respond

[03:10:47]

[R]:

do you have sh or bash at the top o the script?

[03:11:05]

rileyp:

#!/bin/sh

[03:11:05]

rileyp:

# script to vol up tv to 20

[03:11:05]

rileyp:

echo -e "VOLM20 \r" > /dev/ttyUSB0

[03:11:05]

rileyp:

echo "this is silly it should work"

[03:11:05]

rileyp:

exit 0

[03:11:29]

rileyp:

and the text come up the volume does not chnage

[03:11:38]

[R]:

switch it to bash

[03:12:16]

wagnerrp:

it probably already is bash

[03:12:29]

wagnerrp:

many distros no longer actually ship bourne

[03:12:32]

rileyp:

so it should start with #!bin/bin/bash ?

[03:12:39]

rileyp:

sorry

[03:12:54]

wagnerrp:

or /bin/bin/bin/bin/bin/bin/bin/bin/bash

[03:13:26]

rileyp:

so it should be #!bin/bash ?

[03:13:37]

rileyp:

its ubuntu ftw

[03:13:41]

pyther:

wagnerrp: awesome path!

[03:13:47]

[R]:

wagnerrp: bash invoked as sh causes it to behave differently

[03:14:00]

AndyCap:

especially when sh is dash. :P

[03:14:05]

[R]:

that too

[03:14:36]

[R]:

i've saat there scratchign my head for hours trying to figure out why simple test conditions were behaving differnetly then expected in scripts

[03:14:54]

rileyp:

I dont know this stuff so can someone be so kind as to tell my what the first line should be sorry for my no skill

[03:14:58]

AndyCap:

[R]: you can get that with bash and bash as well

[03:15:04]

AndyCap:

rileyp: #!/bin/bash

[03:15:08]

[R]:

AndyCap: ?

[03:15:28]

rileyp:

thanks

[03:15:33]

AndyCap:

[R]: hit something recently that had changed from one version of bash to the next

[03:16:02]

[R]:

AndyCap: "expected" as in it did one thing on the command line and another thing in the swcript

[03:17:18]

rileyp:

still not working but issueing the command from terminal does up the volume

[03:17:51]

wagnerrp:

issuing from the terminal works, but from irexec does not?

[03:17:56]

wagnerrp:

sounds like permissions issue

[03:19:32]

AndyCap:

rileyp: hehe, so you changed more than just command-line vs. script.

[03:20:10]

rileyp:

wagnerp i wish to use it with irexec and i've edited the files and it just doesnt do anything even after restarting lirc and so i thoug i'd try it from a script and in a script the command does not work

[03:22:16]

wagnerrp:

"but issuing the command from terminal does up the volume"

[03:22:28]

wagnerrp:

you mean running echo > tty on the command line works

[03:22:39]

wagnerrp:

but putting it in the script, and running the script, does ont?

[03:22:43]

rileyp:

yes it does and when i run the script i get the text this is silly

[03:22:59]

rileyp:

and the volume does not change

[03:23:45]

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[03:23:55]

cryptide:

wagnerrp: you around?

[03:23:57]

rileyp:

echo -e "VOLM20 \r" > /dev/ttyUSB0 from a terminal work in a script it does not

[03:24:01]

wagnerrp:

yes

[03:24:22]

rileyp:

I should say in my script I suppose

[03:25:07]

rileyp:

I am the owner of the file and am a member of dialout

[03:25:22]

cryptide:

output = task('"%s"' % infile, '"%s"' % outfile)

[03:25:26]

cryptide:

wagnerrp: I'm working with your transcode stub. I'm not sure what

[03:25:28]

cryptide:

damn

[03:25:59]

cryptide:

i'm not sure what this task() is doing or how to format arguments to handbrakecli

[03:26:34]

wagnerrp:

when you create a System() instance, it maps to one executable

[03:26:38]

wagnerrp:

that instance is callable

[03:26:45]

wagnerrp:

meaning you can run <instance>() directly

[03:26:51]

wagnerrp:

you dont have to call any method in particular

[03:27:02]

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[03:27:13]

wagnerrp:

the callable accepts as many arguments as you want to give it

[03:27:30]

cryptide:

wagnerrp: ok, nice

[03:27:30]

wagnerrp:

what command line would you use to run handbrakecli?

[03:27:43]

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[03:28:07]

cryptide:

wagnerrp: /usr/bin/HandBrakeCLI --preset='High Profile' -i $1/$2 -o $newname

[03:28:34]

cryptide:

but i see what todo i think

[03:29:09]

wagnerrp:

basically... it would be: task = System('/usr/bin/HandBrakeCLI')

[03:29:44]

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[03:30:23]

wagnerrp:

and then task('--preset="High Profile", '-i', '"%s/%s"' % (pathto, infile), '-o', '"%s"' % outfile)

[03:30:59]

wagnerrp:

although IIRC, infile and outfile should be the full paths, no need for 'pathto'

[03:31:32]

rileyp:

cryptide, I use handbrake sucessfully from a script http://www.pcmediacenter.com.au/forum/topic/4 . . . od-via-wifi/

[03:31:48]

cryptide:

rileyp: i'll check it out

[03:32:49]

cryptide:

output = task('--preset="High Profile"', '-i "%s"' % infile,'-o "%s"' % outfile)

[03:33:07]

cryptide:

is that not acceptable wagnerrp?

[03:34:41]

wagnerrp:

no, because '-i' and '"%s"' are different arguments in the eyes of execv

[03:35:24]

cryptide:

ok

[03:35:25]

wagnerrp:

if useshell=True when defining the System instance

[03:35:30]

wagnerrp:

it will merge everything into a string

[03:35:37]

wagnerrp:

which the shell will then split back out

[03:35:42]

wagnerrp:

and your line will work fine

[03:35:59]

wagnerrp:

if the bindings call the application directly without passing it through a shell

[03:36:01]

wagnerrp:

it will not work

[03:37:15]

cryptide:

i'll use your mehod

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[04:04:53]

rileyp:

is there an easy way i can send commands to my srial port via irexec

[04:06:45]

wagnerrp:

irexec runs commands based off ir triggers

[04:06:48]

wagnerrp:

nothing more, nothing less

[04:06:53]

wagnerrp:

it has nothing to do with serial ports

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wagnerrp:

sphery: were you intending to add that housekeeper stuff in for 0.25?

[08:21:47]

wagnerrp:

as it stands, those changes in find_orphans requires some updates to the structure of the python bindings i had not intended to backport

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mazda01:

happy new year

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[16:46:29]

me134667:

Hey there. Anyone know if dvb-s2 is broken on tevii cards in the uk?

[16:53:33]

Vollstrecker_:

dekarl: I'm back on my old topic. I compiled from source, moved evrything out of SG, rescanned, moved back in, rescanned: crash. Started in gdb, moved out... no crash, but no changes, started without gdb with script-command, no crash, but many messages about QNetwork Errors.

[16:54:13]

Vollstrecker_:

QObject::connect: Cannot queue arguments of type 'QNetworkReply::NetworkError'\n (Make sure 'QNetworkReply::NetworkError' is registered using qRegisterMetaType().)

[17:00:28]

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[17:10:09]

RagingMind:

is there a good howto/guide for using recording profiles and transcoding?

[17:12:26]

RagingMind:

and is there a way to delete a recording profile group?

[17:13:33]

tank-man:

have you tried looking through the menus?

[17:14:43]

RagingMind:

yes

[17:16:04]

tank-man:

which menu item are you unclear of?

[17:16:05]

RagingMind:

for figuring out the recording profiles, yes

[17:16:39]

RagingMind:

but I didn't think to use M to get a menu to delete a recording profile group. I was trying D

[17:18:03]

RagingMind:

so I'm back down to one group of profiles, but am I limited to only the 4 that are already there? I tried creating a new profile to test recording as mpeg4, but when I go record something with it I only get high/default/low as options and not the new profile

[17:18:20]

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[17:54:44]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you know this #10230 guy?

[17:56:43]

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[18:01:25]

ponyofdeath:

hi, i have an dual tuner card and am trying to play live tv from two separate clients on the network is that possible? if so what is the key thing i need to set to make it possible?

[18:01:49]

wagnerrp:

ive already answered this twice... yes

[18:02:52]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: can you point me to a doc or help me with some more info pls

[18:03:01]

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[18:03:16]

wagnerrp:

have you actually configured mythtv yet?

[18:03:37]

wagnerrp:

did you look at any documentation? do you have anything running?

[18:05:18]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is a network transparent DVR

[18:05:26]

wagnerrp:

there is no such thing as a local or remote frontend

[18:05:33]

wagnerrp:

everything connects to the backend over the network

[18:05:45]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: yes i have it configured

[18:06:00]

wagnerrp:

so if you have multiple frontends, they each connect the backend over the same network

[18:06:08]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: and i am using xbmc clients but when i play live tv on one the other also gets the same channel

[18:06:29]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: even tho i have two tuner card

[18:06:51]

wagnerrp:

you have defined both capture cards in mythtv-setup?

[18:07:26]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: yes

[18:07:32]

ponyofdeath:

with only one source tho

[18:07:35]

ponyofdeath:

should i have two

[18:07:43]

wagnerrp:

do both tuners have the same channels?

[18:07:55]

wagnerrp:

i.e. plugged into the same antenna, or cable line

[18:08:01]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: they should i only have one coax going to the card

[18:08:11]

wagnerrp:

then they should be on the same source

[18:08:19]

wagnerrp:

im going to blame xbmc

[18:08:30]

wagnerrp:

unless you can run mythfrontend and confirm the same behavior

[18:08:59]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: so does the client api determine what tuner it gets or

[18:09:16]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: does xbmc have anything in selecting an free tuner?

[18:09:51]

wagnerrp:

no, when you open live tv, you just get whatever tuner the backend selects for you

[18:10:06]

wagnerrp:

you can switch tuners, you can switch sources afterwards

[18:10:11]

wagnerrp:

or, at least you can in the official client

[18:10:33]

wagnerrp:

we dont maintain xbmc, so we dont provide user support for it

[18:11:22]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: i understand i just wanted to make sure that i did not missconfigure the backend

[18:11:36]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: so if ur saying there is nothing special i need to do

[18:11:51]

wagnerrp:

are these analog or digital tuners?

[18:14:39]

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[18:15:00]

wagnerrp:

anyway... if these are digital tuners, mythtv by default gives each two virtual tuners

[18:15:33]

wagnerrp:

digital television works by sending one or more virtual channels (mpeg streams) through a single modulated carrier

[18:15:41]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: saa7164 is the module

[18:15:54]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: i have it connected to just regular cable

[18:16:01]

wagnerrp:

you tune the carrier, and then you can capture one or more of those mpeg streams simultaneously with a single tuner

[18:16:19]

wagnerrp:

'multirec' and virtual tuners is the way mythtv reconciles that with the scheduler

[18:16:40]

wagnerrp:

when you select a tuner from the backend for livetv or recording (actually the same thing), you will just get the first available tuner

[18:17:10]

wagnerrp:

if two livetv instances start up with no other recordings, they will both be placed on two virtual tuners tied to the same physical tuner

[18:17:40]

wagnerrp:

the virtual tuners will be allowed to change channel to any of the virtual channels on that carrier or multiplex

[18:17:48]

wagnerrp:

but they will not be able to change to a different multiplex

[18:18:30]

wagnerrp:

on digital cable, you're generally looking at maybe 3 HD channels per multiplex, 10–15 SD channels per multiplex, or 50–100 audio channels per multiplex

[18:18:41]

wagnerrp:

or some combination of the three

[18:19:05]

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[18:19:14]

wagnerrp:

if you want to change to a different multiplex, in the official client, you have to tell it manually to switch to another tuner

[18:19:28]

wagnerrp:

either through the 'm' menu, or by binding a key to NEXTCARD

[18:19:36]

wagnerrp:

in xbmc... i have no idea what their behavior is

[18:20:06]

wagnerrp:

in either case, the ideal solution is to schedule both shows to record, and then watch the recording at some later time

[18:20:38]

Vollstrecker_:

When I go the the menu to enter Details and click on search internet for fanart, I get a menu which seems to ask me, which image I would like to use. At least I guess this is the meaning of the dialog, because I see entries like 1280x1024, 3280x720 etc, but I don't see any pictures.

[18:21:09]

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[18:23:37]

ponyofdeath:

wagnerrp: ok thx

[18:23:38]

Vollstrecker_:

From the logs I see the QNetworkReply:NetworkError entries I see often, how can I get informations about this error, becuase plot is retrieved over the same network-connection.

[18:30:26]

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[18:39:49]

Vollstrecker_:

Isn't mythtv or mythfrontend able to display jpegs? The files not shown are jpeg's and a short look with ldd didn't show libjpeg or something. Usually I would guess some of the gui-libs it's linked agains displays that stuff, but as libpng is linked I'm not sure about this.

[18:41:00]

[R]:

sounds like a qt problem

[18:41:09]

[R]:

qt is used to display stuff

[18:42:07]

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[18:45:10]

Vollstrecker_:

qt 4.6.3 is used.

[18:47:15]

[R]:

version means nothing

[18:47:15]

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[18:48:01]

Vollstrecker_:

When I'm opening a directory instead of searching the net, it shows previes of the jpg's in the dir. So maybe it is related to the unspecified QNetworkReply::NetworkError

[18:48:25]

Vollstrecker_:

Sure, version itself is useless. But maybe there are known problems with this version.

[18:48:56]

[R]:

"opening a directory"?

[18:49:55]

Vollstrecker_:

The little white square right to the search internet button. When I click on this I can choose a picture by hand.

[18:51:12]

Vollstrecker_:

Intrestingly, when I choose a picutere it isn't saved. Videomanager doesn't show it, and when I reopen the dialog, it isn't show either.

[18:51:41]

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[18:53:51]

Vollstrecker_:

k, just tested with cover, and this is saved.

[18:54:04]

Vollstrecker_:

So problem is only with images from net.

[18:57:51]

Vollstrecker_:

Is it possible to see the commands myth uses to get the images. Beside the calls to the grabber?

[19:02:27]

20QAAGFRK is now known as abqjp

[19:08:31]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: not that I know of, why?

[19:09:26]

wagnerrp:

because he cc'd you on the ticket

[19:09:31]

wagnerrp:

unless you did that yourself

[19:09:44]

Beirdo:

heh, so he did

[19:10:03]

Beirdo:

I guess he saw that both of us have messed with UPnP over time

[19:11:13]

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[19:47:13]

sphery:

wagnerrp: was planning on trying to get the "resume interrupted deletes" patch in before 0.25, but since the changes to find_orphans.py requires backports, I'll just tell people how unlikely it is that they'll have any, and that those who do likely only have a couple gigabytes worth of them, so there's nothing to worry about

[19:47:24]

sphery:

so no need to backport the stuff\

[19:48:40]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:50:12]

Beirdo:

but but... my 40GB recording partition is full!

[19:51:05]

Seeker`:

would be interesting to know how much storage the average mythtv user has

[19:51:37]

Beirdo:

you find "the average mythtv user" :)

[19:51:59]

Seeker`:

well, mean and median would be interesting

[19:52:10]

Beirdo:

now, where was I... oh yeah, looking at tickets

[19:52:11]

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[19:53:17]

peque:

Hey guys. Is it real that the options of se the logging through mythweb disapered – Normally you'll enable logging, and it showed it also on mythweb

[19:54:03]

Beirdo:

peque: you need to be a lot more specific

[19:55:06]

sphery:

peque: MythWeb's log viewer is broken in unstable/development and will be replaced

[19:55:48]

sphery:

note, also, that the database logging in 0.24-fixes and below was not very useful, too, since it only logged some 1% of things--and generally not useful things

[19:56:08]

sphery:

(i.e. never logged real error messages that would help with debugging)

[19:57:46]

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[19:58:12]

peque:

Okay Thanks for answers, To be more specifik – There was an extra fane in mythweb, where you could see the logging, if you slaveBE starts etc – Since my setup is beginning to be rather complext I would love to se the logging through mythweb, instead of should login through SSH

[19:58:28]

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[19:58:43]

sphery:

well, just need to wait 'til we finish the new code for unstable/development :)

[19:58:51]

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[19:58:58]

sphery:

if you want stable, you should use 0.24-fixes (stable branch :)

[19:58:58]

Beirdo:

the royal we, in this case.

[19:59:07]

sphery:

tattletale

[19:59:14]

Beirdo:

bah, master's fairly stable

[19:59:19]

sphery:

wonder if my parents would like to help me finish it

[19:59:23]

Beirdo:

just changing constantly

[19:59:32]

sphery:

is that good holiday vacation events for visitors?

[19:59:48]

Beirdo:

definitely.. oh wait.

[20:00:33]

peque:

Thanks for the answers – I'll keep waiting

[20:00:59]

sphery:

I hope to get it done before January is over

[20:01:17]

sphery:

just busy with visitors

[20:01:22]

sphery:

(and then work travel)

[20:03:17]

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[20:04:16]

sphery:

So, FWIW, if the -users really want a "free for all topics" (except forbidden topics) on -users, I think we should instead do a Mythllaneous list

[20:04:47]

sphery:

the hard part will be policing the forbidden topics, though--since, at least, I wouldn't be interested in subscribing

[20:04:56]

Beirdo:

nah, screw them

[20:05:20]

Beirdo:

why should we fund miscellanous discussion? They can do that elsewhere

[20:05:34]

Beirdo:

like on the gazillions of forums out there

[20:05:38]

stuartm:

exactly, a million and one forums etc

[20:05:46]

sphery:

elsewhere does seem the right solution

[20:05:58]

Beirdo:

our mailing lists are for mythtv use

[20:06:18]

Beirdo:

if they want to talk non-mythtv, they can do so wherever they are allowed to :)

[20:06:43]

sphery:

cool.. I just don't want to see it on -users list, since it's hard enough keeping up with the "important" stuff on that list, as is

[20:06:52]

Beirdo:

exactly

[20:07:13]

Beirdo:

and us creating a "mythtv-nonrelated" mailing list is.. silly in my mind.

[20:08:35]

Beirdo:

now, splitting it into mythtv-chat and mythtv-debugging or somethng... that could be somewhat useful

[20:09:01]

Peitolm:

does any one know what the 0.25-pre equivalent of mythfilldatabase --refresh-all is?

[20:09:55]

Peitolm:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythfilldatabase sensibly only seems to talk about 0.24

[20:10:53]

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[20:16:11]

stuartm:

Peitolm: that only applies to DataDirect, the default behaviour of uk_rt and others is a full update anyway

[20:17:01]

stuartm:

the xmltv stuff is much smarter than the DD/SD side

[20:17:51]

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[20:19:30]

stuartm:

that mfdb entry on the wiki is out of date even for 0.24 (it refers to stuff that hasn't been true since 0.20)

[20:19:41]

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[20:28:22]

peque:

I've Just installed a new SBE – running Debian X86, where my MBE runs Debian 32_64. Where starting the mythbackend from commandline – there's no problem! But when using the startscript – I'm getting no setting found for this machines BackendserverIP. Both config.xml and mysql.txt shows everything rigth – But just when using the debian INIT script It will not start

[20:28:25]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: have you noticed any changes with the JSON we get from github recently

[20:28:26]

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[20:28:45]

wagnerrp:

the 'fixes' hooks dont seem to be working any longer

[20:28:57]

wagnerrp:

and i dont recall changing anything in the hook that would have caused it

[20:29:13]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro noticed it a couple days ago, but its probably been weeks since anyone has tried using it

[20:34:45]

Peitolm:

stuartm: historically I run the grabber to a file, and then update each input from that, i forget the exact reason, (i used to run both bleb and rt, are you saying that I can just remove the --refresh flag?

[20:34:45]

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[20:35:28]

Peitolm:

"/usr/bin/mythfilldatabase --refresh today --update --file --xmlfile /tmp/tvlistings.xml --sourceid 3" is what i managed to get working inorder to record sherlock tonight (it was missing the bbc one HD schedule for some reason]

[20:35:55]

Peitolm:

i used to use "/usr/bin/mythfilldatabase --refresh-all --update --file 3 /tmp/tvlistings.xml"

[20:36:57]

stuartm:

yes, it does nothing for tv_grab_uk_rt, they supply a full 14 days in one go unlike other sources where the data is split into daily chunks, for sources where that's the case we just do a full update since it would be pointless to download 14 days of data and discard the other 13

[20:37:21]

Peitolm:

what about schedule changes?

[20:37:33]

Peitolm:

will that cope?

[20:38:28]

stuartm:

yes

[20:38:37]

wagnerrp:

so whats going on with radiotimes with the purchase?

[20:38:45]

wagnerrp:

just the same deal as before?

[20:38:57]

Peitolm:

purchase?

[20:39:14]

wagnerrp:

the BBC spun radiotimes off into a private company

[20:39:18]

wagnerrp:

or something like that

[20:39:24]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: they've maintained the free xmltv data but outsourced the running

[20:39:56]

stuartm:

we've lost some things like ratings for now, although they've said they'll think about restoring it later in the year

[20:40:13]

stuartm:

Peitolm: what's the reason for running it manually? (so I can understand the various use cases)

[20:40:14]

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[20:40:39]

stuartm:

Peitolm: to avoid duplication of the download for two different sources?

[20:41:36]

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[20:43:15]

stuartm:

Peitolm: in brief, BBC had a commercial arm for profit making ventures such as DVD sales and international syndication, that included the RadioTimes, the company is called BBC Worldwide – they decided to sell the RadioTimes to a third party

[20:43:43]

Peitolm:

yes, basicalllu, two different sets of inputs, cable and sat

[20:45:13]

Peitolm:

hadn't realised they'd spun that off

[20:45:22]

Peitolm:

be a shame if they decided to stop the rt feeds

[20:45:24]

stuartm:

luckily this new outfit have decided to keep supplying xmltv users free of charge, but they are using a data aggregating service to actually maintain and host the data

[20:46:13]

stuartm:

http://metabroadcast.com/blog/providing-the-r . . . d-from-atlas

[20:46:20]

stuartm:

http://www.radiotimes.com/blog/2011-12-12/cha . . . l-tv-service

[20:47:17]

stuartm:

so RT provide the data to Metabroadcast and Metabroadcast compile it into the CSV format expected by uk_rt

[20:51:00]

stuartm:

Peitolm: so to summarise what I was saying before, all the --refresh options are ignored for uk_rt

[20:52:32]

stuartm:

sphery: do you happen to know how we've ended up with "--file --xmlfile" in mfdb? The help text suggests both are required which is silly, it can be simplified to --xmlfile ?

[20:53:03]

Peitolm:

if it's running through uk_rt, run as an input to mythfilldatabase isn't as clever, but now i know i've taken it out

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stuartm:

Peitolm: you shouldn't need --update in 0.25 either

[20:57:52]

Peitolm:

k

[20:58:14]

stuartm:

we should rename --update to something more descriptive, e.g. --no-channel-updates

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stuartm:

of course that then calls into question why we have both --do-channel-updates and --update

[21:01:05]

stuartm:

what a mess

[21:02:28]

Peitolm:

the help generally seems slightly confused, it would benefit from some xamples

[21:02:32]

Peitolm:

examples even

[21:03:06]

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stuartm:

right, the --help text is unhelpfully terse, the stuff on the wiki is just nonsense

[21:06:29]

Peitolm:

i can understand the wiki not being up to date with svn, (unless it's clearly marked as such)

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** Unhelpful wonders if we'll see a scheme designed to be optimal for utf8-clean texts **

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[21:33:44]

dannyboy1121_:

Hello – quick UPNP question. How are the source directories defined for what gets served up by UPNP? Does MythTV just scan the directories defined in mythtv-setup?

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[21:40:09]

Beirdo:

dannyboy1121_: what version?

[21:43:52]

dannyboy1121_:

Now you're asking .. let me check (I just took what ever version the repository gave me).

[21:44:25]

stuartm:

Unhelpful: ?

[21:45:48]

Beirdo:

stuartm: looking at #10221 to see if I can't figure it out

[21:46:37]

dannyboy1121_:

0.23.1 is the version I'm running

[21:47:16]

Beirdo:

oh jeez, old... OK, the videos (not recordings) are found via a static path that you setup in the frontend (IIRC)

[21:48:01]

Beirdo:

that has all changed for 0.25-pre (hence the question)

[21:48:41]

dannyboy1121_:

ahhHHh .. it may be worth compiling a newer vesion then?

[21:49:51]

Beirdo:

well, could be, but you might be better off with 0.24-fixes for now, unless you really like being on development code

[21:50:14]

Beirdo:

even then, I don't believe that that part had changed for 0.24

[21:50:31]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: can we change the page that mailman give you to sign up?

[21:50:39]

stuartm:

Beirdo: I've not really looked deep into it – my gut is that you've got a QString segfault caused because of a lack of thread safety, but more interesting is that we're retrying constantly when we should be giving up if the mount fails that's resulting in many threads being created in the first place and hence exposing the safety problem

[21:50:40]

wagnerrp:

have it link to the etiquette page

[21:50:42]

dannyboy1121_:

Thanks :)

[21:51:00]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: hmm, not sure

[21:51:12]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: just feel you need see your name said a couple more times

[21:51:34]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: I believe we can customise that and/or the welcome message new subscribers are sent

[21:51:40]

Beirdo:

I haven't looked at trying to customize, but we could send a signup message (and send it monthly to all subscribers too)

[21:52:03]

wagnerrp:

we just have a fair number of new users that never see such stuff

[21:52:08]

Beirdo:

not sure if you can change the web side though, never tried

[21:52:33]

wagnerrp:

i.e. no softcams, no torrents, no other downloads, maintain threading if possible, maintain topics always, do not take control of existing threads... etc

[21:52:49]

wagnerrp:

no top posting, bottom or middle only...

[21:52:51]

Beirdo:

stuartm: yeah, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. To reproduce, just plug in a USB stick?

[21:53:06]

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[21:53:40]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: it would be nice if people would get the stick outta their butt about top-posting as a hard rule. It's proper ettiquete, but we have far too much yelling about it on-list.

[21:54:10]

Beirdo:

just adds to the noise on the list

[21:54:19]

wagnerrp:

fair enough

[21:54:24]

wagnerrp:

how about 'trimmed posting'

[21:54:34]

AndyCap:

Beirdo: it's such a nice straw man for people who don't like what's being said but have no case. :P

[21:54:36]

Beirdo:

Oh GOD, please :)

[21:54:52]

wagnerrp:

top posting is almost as bad as bottom posting if you keep the whole thread of largely irrelevant information in quotes

[21:54:54]

Beirdo:

trimming the messages is a very good thing to try to get people to do :)

[21:55:10]

Beirdo:

agreed. both suck

[21:55:12]

stuartm:

Beirdo, wagnerrp: we can modify the 'introductory description' to include a link to the Etiquette page

[21:55:29]

Beirdo:

Ah, yeah, that can be done

[21:55:34]

wagnerrp:

actually, i dare say top posting is better than bottom if you keep the massive glut of backlog in there

[21:55:46]

stuartm:

Beirdo: plug in certainly triggers the continual retries, I can't remember if it segfaults before or after you disconnect but it should be easy to find out :)

[21:56:06]

Beirdo:

stuartm: OK, I'll have to go crash my frontend then :)

[21:56:25]

Beirdo:

actually, I should update to the current code (about 3 weeks behind, I think)

[21:56:29]

stuartm:

Beirdo: possibly relevant here is that I don't have fstab entries for the devices in question, so it's not able to perform a mount

[21:56:52]

Beirdo:

ahhh, as it's a user vs root

[21:57:08]

Beirdo:

that would be the crucial point, I bet

[21:57:32]

stuartm:

then again, modern distros instead use console-kit and will produce a mount point in /media/

[21:57:44]

Beirdo:

3056 objects behind. wow.

[21:58:01]

stuartm:

i.e. we're already behind the curve

[21:58:12]

Beirdo:

True enough

[21:58:22]

Beirdo:

that whole media monitor needs a boot to the head

[21:58:33]

stuartm:

s/boot/bullet/

[21:58:46]

Beirdo:

Hehe, yeah or that :)

[21:59:21]

Beirdo:

and our QString usage when QString isn't thread-safe... sigh.

[22:00:36]

Beirdo:

not much we can do about that at this point but to chase down particularly bad ones

[22:00:37]

stuartm:

I'm not volunteering to re-write it, but I'm sure that I could come up with something much more elegant, it's hack applied upon hack

[22:01:15]

Beirdo:

Yeah, I'm hesitant to appear to have taken it over, personally.

[22:01:30]

Beirdo:

but it needs some love, so what the heck

[22:02:03]

wagnerrp:

the media monitor needs to be moved into the backend IMHO

[22:02:07]

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[22:02:22]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: yeah, but the idea is for hooking up media to the frontend

[22:02:27]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: i know you were considering taking a stab at the whole encrypted ISO thing at some point

[22:02:33]

Beirdo:

like USB sticks or whatever

[22:02:34]

wagnerrp:

have you looked at lawrence's stuff?

[22:02:50]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: yes, but the idea is the frontend no longer directly accesses that stuff

[22:03:17]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: just wondering in regards to how that would apply to having the backend serve up optical disks to frontends

[22:03:19]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: I can see the application of having it running in the backend, e.g. remote playback of DVDs but it does also need to run in the frontend for locally connected media (SD cards from cameras, mp3 players etc)

[22:03:29]

Beirdo:

true :) But I can still see it being useful for instance if your backend is in the basement and the frontend by the TV

[22:03:46]

Beirdo:

mine are about 6 inches apart...

[22:04:01]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: I've not looked at the patch, but what he describes is pretty much what I wrote a proof of concept to do

[22:04:05]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: true, but then that means it needs to be adapted into some general use infrastructure, and the plugins hook into storage group access

[22:04:20]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: im talking about running a backend instance everywhere you have content to access

[22:04:26]

Beirdo:

oh

[22:04:36]

wagnerrp:

content of any type, tuners, videos, music, images, removable media...

[22:04:47]

Beirdo:

hmmm, that could work, I guess

[22:04:55]

wagnerrp:

or, mythmediaserver instead

[22:05:02]

Beirdo:

kinda blurs the line between server/client

[22:05:05]

** wagnerrp is reminded he needs to do some heavy testing of such **

[22:05:15]

wagnerrp:

well no, not really

[22:05:24]

Beirdo:

but yeah a stripped-down backend like mythmediaserver would do the trick

[22:05:26]

wagnerrp:

it strengthens it

[22:05:42]

wagnerrp:

all backend operations are mythbackend/mediaserver/jobqueue/whatever

[22:05:45]

Beirdo:

depends if you draw the line at machine boundaries :)

[22:05:54]

wagnerrp:

all client operations are frontend

[22:06:08]

Beirdo:

for those that do, it muddles it. Of course, that's not where the line belongs

[22:06:16]

wagnerrp:

ah, client/server boundaries at the machine rather than the software

[22:06:36]

Beirdo:

yeah... of course, it should be at the software :)

[22:06:47]

stuartm:

my interest in the media monitor mostly relates to features such as syncing an mp3 player with a mythmusic playlist, or viewing/transferring images from a camera (both features I'd place in my top ten wishlist)

[22:06:49]

wagnerrp:

well IMHO, it would be very useful for all frontends to be able to access any media plugged into any specific frontend

[22:06:57]

wagnerrp:

so you plug a camera or mp3 player into one

[22:07:06]

wagnerrp:

you want to be able to access it in another one in another room

[22:07:14]

Beirdo:

it should sync it to a storage group, yeah

[22:07:15]

wagnerrp:

which means either the frontend itself gets turned into a server

[22:07:28]

wagnerrp:

or there is another application functioning as server on that machine

[22:07:42]

Beirdo:

yeah, that makes sense

[22:07:43]

wagnerrp:

either way, for that functionality to be available, the line is blurred

[22:07:59]

wagnerrp:

it just depends on whether you want one multi-purpose executable

[22:08:04]

wagnerrp:

or several single purpose executables

[22:08:11]

Beirdo:

I go for the latter ;)

[22:08:14]

dekarl:

happy new year!

[22:08:15]

dekarl:

Vollstrecker_: well, thats not really my area of expertise so I can't really help

[22:08:22]

Beirdo:

it makes it easier to maintain, generally

[22:08:39]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: syncing an mp3 player to a playlist is another thing that IMHO, should happen on the backend

[22:08:47]

wagnerrp:

of course that in turn is going to require backend plugins

[22:08:55]

wagnerrp:

or for mythmusic to be integrated into mythtv properly

[22:09:05]

wagnerrp:

either way, i would be fine with

[22:09:06]

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[22:09:12]

stuartm:

the frontend server is the preferable approach, you don't necessarily want to copy everything off the card (and they can be very slow) – e.g. friends come round with their holiday snaps, you want to view them and not make copies, no matter how temporary

[22:09:42]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: im not saying copy everything, im saying the mediamonitor would make that content available as a temporary storage group

[22:09:48]

Beirdo:

yeah, with an option to sync, not forced sync would be good

[22:10:00]

stuartm:

mythmusic should be fully integrated, but I still see myself adding support for backend plugins alongside that

[22:10:10]

wagnerrp:

the local frontend could access it, remote frontends could access it

[22:10:18]

wagnerrp:

or some other instance could trigger off that and perform a sync

[22:10:32]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: right, crossed wires, I was referring to something Beirdo said about syncing

[22:10:32]

Beirdo:

I still have aspirations for the mythgallery that I haven't gotten to

[22:10:59]

Beirdo:

yeah, I'd like to be able to sync, but you're right, forcing sync in all situations would be nasty

[22:11:09]

wagnerrp:

i absolutely do not like a forced sync

[22:11:19]

wagnerrp:

itunes does that with my dad's ipod and i _hate_ it

[22:11:24]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:11:27]

Beirdo:

BLECH

[22:11:31]

wagnerrp:

it just goobers things up more often than not

[22:11:51]

stuartm:

depending on the media I can see us popping up a dialogue – "New media inserted, share with all frontends? Yes/No"

[22:12:11]

wagnerrp:

its almost as bad as the "im going to scan your whole f--ing computer when i open, and i dont care if you want to limit me to certain directories"

[22:12:38]

wagnerrp:

that would be easier if the server were integrated in the frontend

[22:12:43]

wagnerrp:

but not impossible if they were separate

[22:13:38]

Beirdo:

gah

[22:13:58]

stuartm:

there could be issues with dad connecting his camera up to the bedroom frontend and having naked pictures of mummy appearing on the children's frontends :) We can't implicitly share, it has to be user-driven on a case by case basis

[22:14:02]

Beirdo:

I just saw "mythlistbox-qt3.cpp" or something to that effect scrolling by in mythmusic

[22:14:11]

Beirdo:

I thought we got rid of qt3 crap?

[22:14:16]

wagnerrp:

oopsie

[22:14:41]

wagnerrp:

there was some commit a couple days ago to clear some qt3 stuff out

[22:14:50]

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[22:14:53]

stuartm:

Beirdo: heh, no, mythmusic still uses qt3-support because it was just too damn difficult to remove it and we wanted to re-write that all anyhow

[22:15:03]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:15:04]

Beirdo:

OK

[22:15:12]

Beirdo:

it just surprised me

[22:15:30]

stuartm:

once ported to mythui it will go away :)

[22:15:46]

Beirdo:

nice. whew

[22:15:49]

wagnerrp:

as far as i know, we still require the qt3support modules for mythmusic

[22:15:58]

wagnerrp:

perhaps that commit removed that requirement

[22:16:02]

Beirdo:

of course by then, we may be ready to transition to qt5

[22:16:12]

wagnerrp:

i know ive had trouble in the past when i tried to do without

[22:16:40]

Beirdo:

OMG, I'm not recording?

[22:16:51]

Beirdo:

OK, looks like a good time for the upgrade then

[22:16:51]

wagnerrp:

im actually a bit concerned about mythmusic

[22:17:00]

wagnerrp:

this rewrite has been how many years in the making?

[22:17:07]

stuartm:

as has probably been mentioned before, mythmusic's UI was heavily integrated with the data model and things like playlists, you couldn't really separate them without a complete re-write of both

[22:17:10]

wagnerrp:

paul has been running it in some manner for over a year now

[22:17:23]

wagnerrp:

people are going to be disappointed if its not the greatest thing since sliced bacon

[22:17:26]

stuartm:

which is why the mythui port was such a huge task

[22:17:41]

Beirdo:

ahhh, understood

[22:17:58]

Beirdo:

I think we'll have similar fun with mythgallery, but to a lesser extent

[22:18:03]

wagnerrp:

i think when it does get released, people are going to complain about it regardless of how it appears

[22:18:36]

Beirdo:

yeah, quite likely so

[22:20:02]

Beirdo:

wow, I was 8 DB upgrades behind :)

[22:20:05]

wagnerrp:

"but this player can do this... this other player can do this... the old ui was so much better... why cant i connect it to my diamond rio"

[22:20:56]

stuartm:

no-one is going to say the old UI was 'so much better', but I am concerned that the new UI won't live up to expectations

[22:21:01]

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[22:21:30]

Beirdo:

But it should be easier to change after the mythui conversion, I hope?

[22:21:32]

stuartm:

I'm hoping it will be cleaner and simpler than say mytharchive

[22:21:39]

stuartm:

Beirdo: much, much easier

[22:21:47]

Beirdo:

mytharchive... shudder

[22:22:14]

Beirdo:

I love how we use mytharchivehelper to wrap python scripts and the like

[22:22:22]

Beirdo:

seems odd :)

[22:26:49]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: likely because it was an external utility first, before it became a proper C++ plugin

[22:26:55]

wagnerrp:

and only the UI was ever converted

[22:26:59]

Beirdo:

yeah...

[22:27:37]

Beirdo:

I just find it odd that we fork/exec mytharchivehelper which then fork/execs the actual script or tool

[22:27:42]

Beirdo:

seems overkill :)

[22:28:00]

stuartm:

I can't bring myself to theme mytharchive, too many screens – I can't use mytharchive for the same reason, first time I ever did there were so many steps involved that it seemed to go on forever

[22:28:05]

Beirdo:

I'm sure it has a historical trail

[22:28:11]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: i almost wonder if mythmusic would be another candidate for the backend server

[22:28:35]

wagnerrp:

some full featured media manager written in html/js/c++

[22:28:50]

wagnerrp:

and a much lighter frontend designed more for easy playback

[22:29:05]

Beirdo:

might there already be one we could leverage?

[22:29:26]

wagnerrp:

stop trying to do everything with a remote, when a mouse and keyboard can often be much more powerful

[22:29:53]

Beirdo:

It would be kinda nice to (for instance) stream via a local shoutcast

[22:30:03]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: whatever we have next will probably be a stepping stone to that but I'd be reluctant to move on to something completely new straight away

[22:30:11]

Beirdo:

rather than effectively rewrite it to do nearly the same thing

[22:30:28]

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[22:30:39]

wagnerrp:

perhaps it would be better to start with a completely independent manager

[22:30:58]

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[22:31:01]

wagnerrp:

something done in parallel to mythmusic, but using the same tables

[22:31:12]

stuartm:

Beirdo: we've resisted calls for that for a long time now, a lot of people wanted mythmusic dropped and instead a mythtv client for mpd to be written

[22:31:17]

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[22:31:24]

AndyCap:

logitechmediaserver. :P

[22:31:50]

wagnerrp:

yeah, id rather stay away from mpd

[22:31:55]

Beirdo:

stuartm: it seems like the right long-term goal to me. I guess I missed the reasoning against it in the past

[22:32:00]

wagnerrp:

i like keep all playback inside the single frontend executable

[22:32:23]

Beirdo:

yeah, sure, the playback

[22:32:39]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt mind seeing the frontend act as mpd itself

[22:32:47]

wagnerrp:

so other clients could connect in and control it

[22:33:14]

wagnerrp:

but id rather keep all playback hardware access (and configuration) centralized

[22:33:41]

stuartm:

Beirdo: well the same argument extends and has in the past extended to pretty much everything we do in mythtv, mythvideo should be ditched in favour of upnp, mythtv should just invoke xawtv/tvtime etc

[22:34:32]

wagnerrp:

i prefer to let mythtv continue to manage everything

[22:34:49]

wagnerrp:

making mythtv an mpd frontend would instead mean mpd is used to manage your music outside of mythtv

[22:35:02]

Beirdo:

Yeah, I guess.

[22:35:05]

stuartm:

mythgallery should just point to Flickr ... it's different sides of the same coin

[22:35:48]

Beirdo:

mythgallery WILL use Flickr and Picasa sometime... when I get to it

[22:35:52]

wagnerrp:

i am very much against making mythgallery a frontend to flickr

[22:35:55]

Beirdo:

not exclusively though

[22:36:01]

wagnerrp:

allowing access to flickr libraries, sure

[22:36:16]

stuartm:

the UI might suck, but I'll fight for mythmusic if for no other reason than I've invested time in it

[22:36:22]

wagnerrp:

but i am a firm believer that anything a web service can provide for free, you can do better on your own hardware

[22:36:43]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: except one thing (gallery-wise)...

[22:36:51]

wagnerrp:

bandwidth?

[22:36:55]

Beirdo:

people already store their pics online

[22:37:07]

stuartm:

if we let some third party software carry the weight it's not as interesting to me as a project

[22:37:08]

wagnerrp:

yes, on other people's hardware, using other people's storage

[22:37:13]

Beirdo:

so pulling from there to your TV is a good thing

[22:37:13]

wagnerrp:

they have zero control

[22:37:37]

wagnerrp:

if you want to interface with someone else's libraries on flickr, go for it

[22:37:47]

wagnerrp:

if you want to have some mechanism to upload stuff to a flickr account, sure

[22:38:12]

wagnerrp:

but ALL OF YOUR CONTENT should exist somewhere, archived on one of your own machines

[22:38:27]

Beirdo:

meh

[22:38:41]

Beirdo:

one could say the same for mythnetvision

[22:38:56]

wagnerrp:

but then mythnetvision isnt accessing "your content"

[22:38:58]

Beirdo:

however, for the gallery stuff, we'd cache the pictures locally

[22:39:03]

wagnerrp:

its accessing other stuff on the internet

[22:39:14]

Beirdo:

and flickr and the like is more than just your own content too

[22:39:22]

stuartm:

I think it's telling that even though we have a plugin infrastructure no-one has yet written a mythtv client for mpd, or a upnp video client – lots of people like to talk about it, but no-one cares enough to actually do it

[22:39:25]

Beirdo:

as you can search, etc

[22:39:41]

wagnerrp:

yes, i said i have nothing against allowing mythgallery to view content on flickr

[22:39:47]

Beirdo:

upnp video client, I think markk's working with it

[22:40:04]

Beirdo:

or is thinking of it, I seem to remember him saying something like that

[22:40:28]

wagnerrp:

i am just very much against having flickr (or any other source of online content) as the primary source for stuff ive purchased or generated

[22:40:36]

Beirdo:

Oh, for sure

[22:40:43]

stuartm:

fwiw, I don't and probably never will use services such as Flickr, I'm old fashioned and prefer my private photos/music/etc to remain safely private

[22:40:53]

Beirdo:

this is more to make it so you can view online pics

[22:40:54]

wagnerrp:

if ive purchased the music or film, if ive taking the picture, i want the content coming from my own hardware

[22:41:04]

wagnerrp:

i dont want it being stored solely on some remote server

[22:41:10]

Beirdo:

yes, and that will never disappear

[22:41:25]

wagnerrp:

well that was what stuartm was talking about

[22:41:26]

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[22:41:32]

Beirdo:

this is in addition to, not instead of

[22:41:34]

wagnerrp:

getting rid of that local content entirely

[22:41:48]

stuartm:

if someone wants to write a Flickr plugin, or a Flickr component for mythgallery then I'd welcome it, I just wouldn't use it and definitely wouldn't want to be forced to use it instead of a local-only storage

[22:41:51]

wagnerrp:

who needs local content when youre just storing it all on flickr

[22:42:26]

Beirdo:

well, if some people want to do it that way, that's their prerogative

[22:42:55]

Seeker`:

I wanna be able to access my content when BT screw up my net connection

[22:42:57]

Beirdo:

I just want to open up more sources, not force them to use em :)

[22:43:15]

Beirdo:

right, hence caching them locally when viewed

[22:43:16]

stuartm:

yeah, we're crossing wires again, we seem to be agreeing that having the option to do something is good and different from making it the sole supported method

[22:43:33]

Beirdo:

stuartm: yeah. Makes sense :)

[22:43:39]

wagnerrp:

sure, but "dropping mythmusic for an mpd or google music frontend" would be along the same lines as "dropping mythgallery for a flickr frontend"

[22:43:49]

Beirdo:

yes, it would

[22:43:49]

wagnerrp:

thats what stuartm is talking about

[22:43:51]

Beirdo:

hmm

[22:44:04]

wagnerrp:

as a project, weve just been heavily resisting such moves

[22:44:21]

Beirdo:

I'd like to see mythmusic being a frontend to play music from many sources, including local

[22:44:43]

stuartm:

I've no wish to take the Spotify route to customer satisfaction – telling customers that they have to become a facebook user to listen to music (I mean, wtf?)

[22:44:49]

Beirdo:

and including streaming radio stations, etc

[22:45:03]

stuartm:

right, that would be fantastic

[22:45:42]

Beirdo:

and I'd like to be able to schedule audio recordings at some time too

[22:45:59]

Beirdo:

(and podcast support...) and on and on

[22:45:59]

wagnerrp:

well, streaming stuff id like to keep separate

[22:46:17]

wagnerrp:

since its more like a radio station, something you have no control over

[22:46:19]

Beirdo:

I'd like to see one audio player, and one video player

[22:46:32]

Beirdo:

how you feed content is up to the user

[22:46:42]

wagnerrp:

either as a separate menu entry, or a separate area in mythmusic

[22:46:54]

Beirdo:

of course, we get screwed by the "must use our flash player" online video streams

[22:47:14]

stuartm:

Beirdo: content-plugins would work well there, drop-in plugin support for playing/viewing media from any number of different sources and without us having to be the ones maintaining it all (or navigating the legal minefield)

[22:47:28]

wagnerrp:

IMHO, mythmusic is intended to be used playing playlists of content

[22:47:32]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:47:47]

stuartm:

we'd offer a core of popular options and third-party plugin authors could do the rest

[22:47:48]

wagnerrp:

you play through a pre-defined playlist, or you play all of some author, or you play all of some album/genre/whatever

[22:47:56]

wagnerrp:

im saying online streams do not fit in a playlist

[22:48:16]

wagnerrp:

since you tune the stream, and youre stuck there indefinitely until you stop playback

[22:48:28]

wagnerrp:

there is no 'end point' at which it would jump to the next track

[22:48:35]

Beirdo:

nah, it is its own playlist

[22:48:40]

Beirdo:

a very long one

[22:48:46]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: yup, online streams _are_ a playlist, they don't belong within one of other tracks

[22:48:51]

wagnerrp:

pod casts, or other forms of on demand music, sure

[22:48:55]

stuartm:

or what Beirdo said ;)

[22:49:05]

wagnerrp:

im just saying they would belong in a separate section than individual tracks

[22:49:10]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:49:26]

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[22:49:27]

wagnerrp:

whether you open a different mode in mythmusic, or you open a separate plugin, i dont see much difference

[22:49:38]

Beirdo:

I do :)

[22:49:47]

Beirdo:

unless the audio player is in core

[22:49:52]

wagnerrp:

as for single audio and single video player, i dont see why such things wouldnt be in core

[22:49:58]

Beirdo:

like the video player is now

[22:50:03]

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[22:50:12]

stuartm:

ok, that's strange

[22:50:15]

wagnerrp:

like how (former) mythvideo and recordings both used the same mythplayer

[22:50:23]

wagnerrp:

they would feed it content, and it would get played

[22:50:27]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:50:46]

wagnerrp:

you could feed it a single track, you could feed it a playlist, you could feed it an online stream, and it would play it

[22:50:52]

Beirdo:

I have a coworker who still uses mplayer for his anime.

[22:51:00]

wagnerrp:

the code that fed different types could then be completely independent

[22:51:11]

wagnerrp:

but you still had the single hardware configuration to set it up

[22:51:15]

stuartm:

Mark has been adapting mythplayer to handle audio only and visualations, I think we're on course for it to handle everything

[22:51:20]

Beirdo:

I must remember to get a sample from him to see if the 0.25-pre player does handle his subtitles right

[22:51:41]

Beirdo:

yeah, everything but craptacular flash :)

[22:51:43]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: any word on a widgeted mythplayer?

[22:51:46]

stuartm:

I can actually imagine mythplayer handling gallery slideshows

[22:52:00]

Beirdo:

hmm

[22:52:05]

Beirdo:

there is that possibility

[22:52:21]

Beirdo:

we will need to move the OpenGL effects into mythui somehow

[22:52:37]

wagnerrp:

something to replace the 'play in background' capability in mythmusic, or PIP and preview playback in recordings

[22:52:48]

wagnerrp:

or even a popup surveillance window for mythzoneminder

[22:53:00]

stuartm:

Beirdo: well in a way Mark's work on mythplayer visuals lays the groundwork for that

[22:53:05]

Beirdo:

even if it means creating our own meta-video format with "show this image", "do this effect to this image"

[22:53:26]

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[22:53:28]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:53:41]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: no, it's not been discussed for a while, I should move it up my list of priorities because it's a very useful idea

[22:53:50]

Beirdo:

the effects are the main reason that mythgallery's conversion hasn't moved yet

[22:54:20]

Beirdo:

every time I think about it, I hit that roadblock, and find something else to work on

[22:55:10]

JamesJRH:

Hi, I'm looking to buy a PCI-e card or USB device that can capture 1080i/p unencrypted HDMI. With a HDMI adapter for component video.

[22:55:12]

Beirdo:

God knows, we have enough things to choose from if looking for something to work on :)

[22:55:28]

[R]:

JamesJRH: none for linxu that work with myth

[22:55:38]

JamesJRH:

This looks perfect but would it work?:

[22:55:42]

JamesJRH:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100049

[22:55:45]

[R]:

JamesJRH: oh, well if you are using an hdmi to component, then the hdpvr

[22:56:04]

wagnerrp:

JamesJRH: hardly any such thing as unencrypted HDMI

[22:56:09]

[R]:

where are you getting unencrypted hdmi?

[22:56:27]

wagnerrp:

the only place youre likely to get it would be if youre generating it yourself out of a camera

[22:56:34]

wagnerrp:

in which case mythtv isnt the application for you

[22:56:53]

wagnerrp:

STBs, DVDs, and BRs are all going to output encrypted HDMI

[22:57:04]

wagnerrp:

as will even things like a PS3 or Xbox

[22:58:00]

stuartm:

Beirdo: learning enough about opengl to port them is one of those things that I always plan to do 'next week sometime'

[22:58:06]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:58:14]

Beirdo:

OpenGL isn't TOO bad

[22:58:26]

Beirdo:

but yeah, quite a learning curve

[22:58:59]

JamesJRH:

[R]: HDMI to component? I've never heard of that.

[22:59:19]

wagnerrp:

JamesJRH: what do you want to use this for?

[22:59:25]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: Well component is the main aim.

[22:59:29]

Beirdo:

OK, back to trying to figure out that ticket

[22:59:46]

Beirdo:

now that I'm running current code :)

[22:59:49]

wagnerrp:

again, you may not want to use component either

[22:59:55]

wagnerrp:

what are you trying to record?

[23:00:03]

JamesJRH:

But HDMI is smaller and I prefer the adapter wire.

[23:00:23]

[R]:

JamesJRH: you're the one who said you wanted an andapter

[23:00:32]

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[23:00:41]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: PS3, Wii, Xbox.

[23:01:25]

wagnerrp:

the wii doesnt even do hdmi does it?

[23:01:29]

Beirdo:

Haahhahahah

[23:01:32]

JamesJRH:

Component

[23:01:38]

Beirdo:

Flashpoint with it's stupidities

[23:01:50]

wagnerrp:

either way, you dont want to bother using mythtv for any of that

[23:02:00]

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[23:02:05]

Beirdo:

it's in Toronto, and they said the call was on the 401... and showed on the map that it was on the waterfront

[23:02:09]

wagnerrp:

in linux, you can use the HDPVR, but thats component only

[23:02:09]

Beirdo:

nice try, tards

[23:02:23]

wagnerrp:

or you can use one of the BlackMagic devices

[23:02:34]

wagnerrp:

they work in linux, but only in their own capture programs

[23:02:49]

wagnerrp:

on windows, you can use the colossus, or one of the avermedia devices

[23:03:02]

wagnerrp:

but most of those will give you uncompressed video

[23:03:12]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: HDPVR? Do you have a link.

[23:03:13]

JamesJRH:

?

[23:03:15]

wagnerrp:

and uncompressed 1080p will be horrendous to deal with

[23:03:47]

wagnerrp:

http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

[23:03:55]

JamesJRH:

BlackMagic, I found this:

[23:03:59]

JamesJRH:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blackmagic-Intensity- . . . 3DB001CN9GEA

[23:04:03]

wagnerrp:

thats the only device we care about, since thats the only one that will work with linux and mythtv

[23:04:31]

wagnerrp:

the intensity will work for unencrypted, but as mentioned, i know at least the PS3 will be encrypted

[23:04:36]

wagnerrp:

i believe the xbox will be as well

[23:04:46]

wagnerrp:

and its just capture, not a compressor

[23:05:00]

wagnerrp:

so youre dealing with 1080p60 video, 3Gbps

[23:05:58]

wagnerrp:

anyway, none of this really has any bearing on mythtv

[23:06:14]

wagnerrp:

but i really have no idea what channel would be good to redirect you to

[23:06:30]

Beirdo:

#good-luck ?

[23:07:30]

JamesJRH:

Oh, that's USB. Still looks quite good through. But it's twice the price. Damn manufacturers who don't support Linux. :-(

[23:07:35]

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[23:07:49]

wagnerrp:

its not the manufacturers

[23:08:01]

JamesJRH:

?

[23:08:05]

JamesJRH:

Who then?

[23:08:22]

wagnerrp:

theyre stuck behind NDAs from the chipset manufacturers that prevent the release of open source drivers

[23:08:23]

Beirdo:

it's the chip manufacturers, not the device manufacturers, generally

[23:08:26]

stuartm:

they assemble components made from a short list of chip manufacturers

[23:08:37]

wagnerrp:

the HDPVR had to be reverse engineered, made easier by the fact that it was USB

[23:08:50]

wagnerrp:

as compared to the PCIe colossus which would be a complete PITA to do so on

[23:09:05]

Beirdo:

I'd love to have the tools to do that :)

[23:09:20]

JamesJRH:

Ok. Damn chipset manufacturers who don't support Linux.

[23:09:26]

wagnerrp:

hauppauge (or at least some of their engineers) has traditionally been very generous to linux

[23:09:49]

stuartm:

and the chip manufacturers seem to think that if you know too much about the chips software interface then you'd find it easy to copy their hardware designs (IMHO it's a flawed reason)

[23:10:23]

wagnerrp:

well according to devin, its not so flawed

[23:10:32]

wagnerrp:

especially things like the nvidia stuff

[23:10:46]

wagnerrp:

where its more or less a general purpose vector processor anymore

[23:10:59]

Beirdo:

thankfully :)

[23:11:06]

wagnerrp:

with all that heavily optimized opengl implementation written in shader code

[23:12:24]

stuartm:

I'll bow to his superior knowledge on the subject, but maybe it's better to say I don't really understand how you can derive so much that way

[23:13:54]

wagnerrp:

well at least one step up from that, say he writes and open sources excellent drivers for a hauppauge card

[23:13:59]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: I have a Hauppauge card. A hvr 2200.

[23:14:03]

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[23:14:03]

stuartm:

and more over, are we to believe corporate espionage can be so easily thwarted when so many manufacturers are given legitimate access to that info?

[23:14:15]

wagnerrp:

several other cards from other manufacturers are going to be fairly similar and relatively easily adapted to work with that other driver

[23:14:49]

wagnerrp:

so unless you have idealistic customers, having good open source drivers may not do much to improve sales

[23:15:26]

wagnerrp:

JamesJRH: thats only going to be good for svideo at best, nothing HD

[23:16:51]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: Yes, different subject. Of course S-Video is plain unencrypted and works with Sky+.

[23:17:12]

JamesJRH:

(Don't have Sky HD anyway.)

[23:17:34]

wagnerrp:

well its not unencrypted, its analog

[23:17:43]

JamesJRH:

I got it to work in VLC but not Myth.

[23:17:46]

wagnerrp:

analog doesnt support encryption in the first place for it to be unencrypted

[23:17:46]

JamesJRH:

Yes.

[23:17:51]

JamesJRH:

Yes.

[23:18:42]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: I can understand why manufacturers might not want to write drivers themselves, but what I don't really understand is them purposefully withholding spec sheets and the like

[23:18:46]

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[23:19:56]

bixter:

not sure when this happened but my backend stopped recording off of my haupuage devices. I have lots of blank recordings and get a rom1394_2 warning: read failed: 0x0000fffff0000414

[23:19:56]

bixter:

error reading config rom directory for node 2

[23:19:56]

bixter:

error from the backend. Any ideas? Not sure why it's trying to use 1394. I do use 1394 for channel changing but I use an external program for that

[23:20:49]

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[23:20:56]

[R]:

sounds like your channel changer is failing

[23:20:57]

wagnerrp:

ideal solution, scrap firewire, the STB, and your capture device... get a cablecard tuner instead

[23:21:01]

Beirdo:

oh this code is not Scottish

[23:21:05]

wagnerrp:

what device specifically?

[23:21:16]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: in other words, its crraaaaaap?

[23:21:23]

Beirdo:

aye!

[23:21:33]

bixter:

wagnerrp, are you asking me?

[23:21:48]

wagnerrp:

yes

[23:22:07]

bixter:

the tuner changes fine with the external program I told myth to use

[23:22:09]

wagnerrp:

what version of mythtv are you running?

[23:22:25]

bixter:

lastest mythbuntu .24

[23:22:28]

bixter:

with fixes

[23:22:45]

wagnerrp:

firewire channel changing means youre using digital cable, specifically verizon

[23:22:56]

wagnerrp:

if youve got some cash to burn, you would be well served getting a cablecard tuner

[23:23:29]

bixter:

im using 2 hdpvr devices to record from them

[23:23:37]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: How can Xbox and PS3 be encrypted over component? Component is HD analog over 3 coax cables, right?

[23:24:03]

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[23:24:11]

wagnerrp:

bixter: right, and unless youre recording premium channels (like HBO or Showtime), verizon is going to broadcast them as 'copy freely'

[23:24:33]

wagnerrp:

meaning a $150 DCR-2650 and a $3/mo cablecard rental could replace both HDPVRs and both $10/mo cable boxes

[23:24:33]

bixter:

hdpvr doesnt matter what it broadcasts as. its component

[23:24:47]

wagnerrp:

JamesJRH: you said you were looking to do HDMI capture though

[23:25:19]

wagnerrp:

if component is acceptable, the HDPVR will do just fine, and better yet, since it has a compressor, youll just end up with easily manageable ~13Mbps h264

[23:25:32]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to 700–3000Mbps raw video

[23:26:04]

JamesJRH:

I will get a HD PVR. Although, is there a HDMI to component adapter. I primarily want component but for £100+I like to do both.

[23:26:22]

wagnerrp:

JamesJRH: both... what for?

[23:26:31]

wagnerrp:

the PS3, Wii, and Xbox all output component video

[23:26:42]

bixter:

there is an adapter, like $45 on amazon

[23:26:47]

JamesJRH:

Camera... Whatever...

[23:27:07]

JamesJRH:

It's just a lot of money for 1 thing.

[23:27:11]

wagnerrp:

i suppose, theres just no reason to get one currently

[23:27:14]

JamesJRH:

bixter: Thanks.

[23:27:26]

bixter:

wagnerrp: eitherway, doesnt explain why myth isnt recording. I can cat out /dev/video0 and get video

[23:27:41]

bixter:

same with video1

[23:27:57]

wagnerrp:

bixter: true, but im saying it may not be worth your time to screw around trying to figure out why its not working

[23:29:28]

bixter:

does myth try to use 1394 for any reason? I do not have anything configured in myth for it (as far as I can tell)

[23:29:44]

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[23:29:55]

wagnerrp:

myth can record from firewire if you tell it to

[23:30:03]

JamesJRH:

Oh, about the svideo on the hvr 2200, I got it working in VLC but not Myth. I tried this but no success:

[23:30:06]

JamesJRH:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/S-Video/Composite_Input_Recording

[23:30:14]

wagnerrp:

but i dont think it should be interfacing with it if you dont have specific firewire capture devices defined

[23:30:22]

[R]:

bixter: dindt you jsut say you use firewire for channel changes

[23:30:31]

wagnerrp:

JamesJRH: what type of input did you configure it as?

[23:30:51]

bixter:

r: I do but use an external program to change the channel.

[23:30:57]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: Input 2, svideo.

[23:31:03]

[R]:

bixter: ok... and?

[23:31:20]

wagnerrp:

JamesJRH: i mean, what type of capture card?

[23:31:21]

bixter:

r: dunno, u asked

[23:31:24]

wagnerrp:

V4L or MPEG2?

[23:31:36]

[R]:

[04:20:56] [R] sounds like your channel changer is failing

[23:32:37]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: Oh. In VLC I tried V4L and 'DVR' mode. The latter worked.

[23:33:20]

wagnerrp:

JamesJRH: no, in mythtv

[23:34:24]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: I tried a few, none worked.

[23:34:44]

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[23:34:52]

wagnerrp:

the MPEG Encoder type should have worked

[23:35:13]

wagnerrp:

but i believe there may be some driver conflicts between the saa7164 and mythtv with that particular device

[23:35:22]

wagnerrp:

the NTSC -2250 works fine though

[23:35:28]

wagnerrp:

however do note, it is a dual tuner, not a quad tuner

[23:35:37]

wagnerrp:

so the analog sides cannot be used at the same time as the digital sides

[23:35:54]

wagnerrp:

they must be configured as input groups so mythtv knows of their mutual exclusion

[23:36:40]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: Ok, thanks, I'll try MPEG. Although I'm pretty sure I did.

[23:37:18]

bixter:

R: thanks for being persistent. a remote changed my 1394 device order and mucked things up. I hate running mythtv-setup, but did and notice the error. Made some code changes and im all good. thanks yall and merry new yeat!

[23:37:21]

bixter:

year :/

[23:37:22]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: Oh that's what input groups are about. I wondered why that step was needed.

[23:37:51]

bixter:

and remote = reboot

[23:37:59]

wagnerrp:

bixter: back to my point, a cablecard tuner would not have any of these sorts of issues

[23:38:12]

JamesJRH:

BTW, I hadn't configured any other channels at this point, only the svideo stuff.

[23:38:20]

bixter:

5 mins saved me $150. thats a lot of homemade beer

[23:38:23]

wagnerrp:

on the other hand, you can very possibly do away with the HDPVRs and do direct firewire capture

[23:38:48]

wagnerrp:

bixter: on the other hand, youre looking at $3/mo for the cablecard rental, rather than $15–20/mo for the two cable box rentals

[23:39:13]

wagnerrp:

plus the initial $200 each for the HDPVRs

[23:39:29]

cryptide:

wagnerrp: my job keeps running forever. I don't think this is right: output = task('--preset=\"iPod\"', '-i', '\"%s\"' % infile, '-o', '\"%s\"' % outfile)

[23:39:43]

bixter:

well that is invested already. is there any lock down issues on recordings?

[23:39:59]

wagnerrp:

lock down issues?

[23:40:29]

wagnerrp:

cryptide: you should not need to escape the quotes

[23:41:02]

bixter:

that qam 5c thing. copy once thing

[23:41:17]

wagnerrp:

bixter: the same limitations as firewire capture

[23:41:23]

bixter:

or if i record from that will i be able to watch the recording anywhere

[23:41:32]

wagnerrp:

mythtv can access encrypted content using a firewire tuner, but only that marked 'copy freely'

[23:41:41]

wagnerrp:

for time warner users, that means you get nothing

[23:41:54]

wagnerrp:

for comcast and verizon users, you should get everything but the handful of premium channels

[23:42:03]

wagnerrp:

those would still need to be captured in analog from a cable box

[23:42:15]

wagnerrp:

in either cases, mythtv does not and never will support any form of drm

[23:42:20]

bixter:

cool, thanks yall gottta run

[23:42:21]

wagnerrp:

it will not restrict how you access your content

[23:42:28]

wagnerrp:

anyway, just something to consider

[23:42:29]

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[23:44:14]

JamesJRH:

The roof arial is currently broken and has no signal. So the only thing configured is the svideo. Does that make any difference?

[23:44:54]

JamesJRH:

I get something like 'all inputs used but no active recordings'.

[23:45:04]

JamesJRH:

IIRC.

[23:45:14]

wagnerrp:

well it means youre not going to be using the digital halves, so if you dont define them, mythtv wont lock the, and you dont have to worry about input groups

[23:45:27]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is designed to record scheduled television

[23:45:35]

JamesJRH:

Yes.

[23:45:39]

wagnerrp:

meaning it requires channels to be defined, ideally with guide data

[23:46:01]

wagnerrp:

if you have no video source, or no channels in your video source, it will not function, assuming a misconfiguration on your part

[23:46:08]

wagnerrp:

it is not designed for arbitrary capture of video

[23:46:43]

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[23:47:53]

JamesJRH:

Personally I'm fine with Freeview, but there are like 2 channels that are not on Freeview that I want. I've heard about making Myth control Sky with an IR transmitter. Is that hard to set up?

[23:48:10]

wagnerrp:

somewhat

[23:48:25]

wagnerrp:

more because LIRC itself for blasting is hard to set up

[23:48:30]

JamesJRH:

(BTW, it's mainly my Dad who wants those 2 channels.)

[23:48:52]

wagnerrp:

mythtv cannot control external tuners directly

[23:49:00]

wagnerrp:

it merely calls external scripts with the channel you want to tune to

[23:49:01]

JamesJRH:

I can get that set up but then what?

[23:49:08]

wagnerrp:

relying on those external scripts to change the channel

[23:49:18]

wagnerrp:

bixter was using an external firewire application

[23:49:19]

Seeker`:

anyone in the UK have any opinions on freesat HD?

[23:49:20]

JamesJRH:

Oh, ok.

[23:49:37]

wagnerrp:

in your case, it would be a script wrapped around irsend, part of the lirc package

[23:51:51]

JamesJRH:

Seeker`: Never used it. But if it has Eurosport (my Dad's favourite channel), I'd give it a go.

[23:52:19]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: Any wiki entry anywhere?

[23:53:16]

Seeker`:

tempted by freesat HD. No idea how good the satellite socket is in my flat. And it'd take up my only free pci-e slot, so no hard drive expansion options

[23:53:46]

JamesJRH:

Ah:

[23:53:55]

JamesJRH:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/UK_Television#Sky.2FSky.2B_Box

[23:54:36]

wagnerrp:

theres some stuff on our wiki, other stuff in the lirc documentation, various other guides scattered around the internet

[23:54:46]

wagnerrp:

but i dont know of any one single resource that maps it all out well

[23:55:18]

wagnerrp:

its used by some, considered a form of black magic by others, and generally rather finicky

[23:55:45]

wagnerrp:

ive never implemented it myself

[23:56:40]

wagnerrp:

ir blasting, and external tuners in general, are best avoided if at all legally possible

[23:56:45]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: Yeah, but ok for the 5% fringe channels that are not on Freeview that are wanted.

[23:59:15]

JamesJRH:

wagnerrp: If I could get a satellite PCI-E/USB card/dongle that could get Sky stuff using the perfectly valid viewing card, I would.

[23:59:56]

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[23:59:56]

wagnerrp:

sky locks down access to only their own hardware, so thats not an option

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