Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, December 13th, 2011, 00:00 UTC

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[00:48:42]

mrshaketouchpad:

evening

[00:49:36]

mrshaketouchpad:

I can't seem to watch one channel while recording another... using an HDhomerun

[00:49:55]

wagnerrp:

what version are you running?

[00:50:11]

wagnerrp:

'mythbackend --version'

[00:50:20]

mrshaketouchpad:

wait one

[00:50:35]

wagnerrp:

i just want the top line

[00:50:58]

wagnerrp:

should be a 5-digit number, or have an alphanumeric code

[00:51:30]

mrshaketouchpad:

0.24.1-80-glde0431

[00:51:52]

wagnerrp:

fairly new... i believe the issue i was thinking of should be fixed by that point

[00:52:18]

wagnerrp:

but just in case, when you defined your HDHR, did you use autodetection with the code off the bottom of the device, or did you use an IP address?

[00:52:25]

mrshaketouchpad:

ip

[00:52:34]

wagnerrp:

try using autodetection instead

[00:52:39]

mrshaketouchpad:

wait wait

[00:52:49]

mrshaketouchpad:

no, I selected from the dropdown

[00:52:55]

wagnerrp:

previously, there was an issue where when using the IP address, even if you told it to use the second tuner, it would still access the first tuner

[00:53:13]

wagnerrp:

you do have a dual tuner version? there is a cheaper single tuner version

[00:53:13]

mrshaketouchpad:

I tried up the first time, not this time

[00:53:18]

mrshaketouchpad:

dual, yea

[00:53:31]

wagnerrp:

you added both tuners independently?

[00:53:33]

mrshaketouchpad:

2 antenna inputs

[00:53:37]

mrshaketouchpad:

yep

[00:53:56]

wagnerrp:

meaning when you look at the backend status on http://<your backend>:6544, you see four devices?

[00:53:59]

mrshaketouchpad:

I actually see 4 tuners listed under status

[00:54:07]

mrshaketouchpad:

yea

[00:54:13]

wagnerrp:

yeah, thats the default

[00:54:24]

wagnerrp:

its what we call 'multirec'

[00:54:55]

wagnerrp:

each digital channel is actually a data stream containing multiple audio, video, subtitle, and auxiliary channels

[00:55:07]

wagnerrp:

thats how your broadcasters have things like weather subchannels and such

[00:55:14]

mrshaketouchpad:

got it

[00:55:23]

wagnerrp:

multirec defaults to two virtual tuners per physical tuner, to allow up to two simultaneous recordings

[00:55:52]

wagnerrp:

when using live tv, it will select the first available tuner, even if that tuner may be a virtual tuner attached to an already-in-use physical tuner

[00:56:01]

mrshaketouchpad:

ok

[00:56:08]

wagnerrp:

in that case, you will be locked to the multiplex (physical channel) the other virtual tuner is using

[00:56:33]

wagnerrp:

is it possible thats the case? you can only watch that one channel in livetv?

[00:56:48]

mrshaketouchpad:

yep

[00:56:51]

wagnerrp:

meaning if you hit 'm' to change inputs, or hit the optional keybinding to do so

[00:57:06]

wagnerrp:

you switch to the completely free tuner, and then can access all available channels on that vidoe source

[00:58:05]

mrshaketouchpad:

that works

[00:58:17]

mrshaketouchpad:

I used m and switched inputs

[00:58:59]

wagnerrp:

so that means the solution is to start using mythtv properly and.... stop using livetv

[00:58:59]

mrshaketouchpad:

so it will never behave like commercial dvrs with 2 tuners and switch tuners as needed?

[00:59:01]

wagnerrp:

:)

[00:59:10]

mrshaketouchpad:

howls?

[00:59:16]

mrshaketouchpad:

howso?

[00:59:27]

wagnerrp:

switching tuners automatically is potentially disruptive to scheduled recordings

[00:59:52]

wagnerrp:

proper use of any 'DVR' is to let it record anything you want to watch, or may want to watch, or even think might be interesting

[01:00:01]

wagnerrp:

and then to watch at some later time

[01:00:01]

mrshaketouchpad:

there is no logic to say "both tuners are in use?

[01:00:17]

wagnerrp:

what do you mean?

[01:00:23]

mrshaketouchpad:

ok

[01:00:38]

mrshaketouchpad:

take my DirecTV DVR for example

[01:01:06]

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[01:01:08]

wagnerrp:

most commercial DVRs have a recorder dedicated for use with live tv

[01:01:09]

mrshaketouchpad:

if its recording 2 shows, I can't change channels without stopping a recording

[01:01:37]

mrshaketouchpad:

but if I am recording one, it will let me change channels on live tv at will

[01:02:23]

wagnerrp:

the issue is that if youre using livetv on that tuner, it could prevent a scheduled recording from occurring on a different multiplex

[01:02:43]

wagnerrp:

mythtv may be able to pick up a re-airing at a later date, or it might not

[01:02:51]

mrshaketouchpad:

ok...

[01:03:12]

wagnerrp:

so it errs on the side of inconveniencing the user a bit, to give the scheduled recordings priority

[01:03:31]

wagnerrp:

as mentioned, you can bind a button to cycle inputs manually

[01:03:33]

mrshaketouchpad:

DirecTV DVR would warn at the time of that recording if a tuner is not avaliable

[01:03:49]

mrshaketouchpad:

hrm....

[01:04:01]

wagnerrp:

so you dont have to go through the menu

[01:04:18]

mrshaketouchpad:

I will have to give that consideration

[01:04:40]

mrshaketouchpad:

WMC behaves like the commercial DVR in that aspect

[01:04:42]

wagnerrp:

basically, its a known limitation, and one that a number of users have complained about

[01:05:03]

wagnerrp:

but weve found that the amount of time spent using livetv is inversely proportional to the amount of time spent using mythtv

[01:05:16]

wagnerrp:

the more and more you use it, the less and less likely you are to want to use live tv

[01:05:22]

mrshaketouchpad:

so, mythtv assigns a specific tuner to a schedule?

[01:05:27]

wagnerrp:

getting back to the 'proper usage' is just to record everything

[01:05:43]

wagnerrp:

when the scheduler runs, it assigns a specific tuner to an upcoming recording

[01:05:56]

mrshaketouchpad:

lol, I have to disagree, I'm a channel flipper

[01:06:16]

mrshaketouchpad:

I watch live tv 90% of the timr

[01:06:36]

wagnerrp:

do realize that there is a time concern when freqently flipping

[01:06:51]

wagnerrp:

that HDHR usually takes 1–2 seconds to stabilize on a new digital channel

[01:06:55]

mrshaketouchpad:

seems odd... it seems to me to make more sense to have myth grab an available tuner at the time of records g

[01:07:06]

wagnerrp:

then you have to wait for a program table, start filtering for that specific virtual channel, wait for a keyframe

[01:07:15]

mrshaketouchpad:

recording or ask user if there is a conflict

[01:07:24]

wagnerrp:

then you have mythtv's internal buffer for its network-transparent split between frontend and backend

[01:07:37]

wagnerrp:

there usually ends up being anywhere from 3–6 seconds for a channel change

[01:07:49]

wagnerrp:

if you are using a tuner, and a scheduled recording comes up that wants to use it

[01:07:59]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will ask you to optionally relinquish the tuner

[01:08:08]

mrshaketouchpad:

that I have seen

[01:08:24]

mrshaketouchpad:

and now makes more sense now

[01:09:08]

mrshaketouchpad:

the final decide will be the wife... hahaha

[01:09:37]

wagnerrp:

thats the general issue

[01:09:58]

wagnerrp:

the person setting up the system is more willing to accept quirkiness than less-technical family members

[01:10:23]

mrshaketouchpad:

true

[01:11:37]

wagnerrp:

potentially why long term users end up flipping channels less and less

[01:12:48]

wagnerrp:

its not uncommon to see people with half a dozen tuners and 10+TB of storage

[01:12:55]

wagnerrp:

for the above mentioned purpose

[01:13:08]

wagnerrp:

record everything, delete the garbage later

[01:13:39]

** Beirdo is guilty as charged **

[01:13:59]

wagnerrp:

give new series several weeks for everyone else to decide whether or not theyre any good

[01:14:22]

k-man:

thats what I do too

[01:14:25]

k-man:

record heaps

[01:14:40]

Beirdo:

recordings happen. :)

[01:15:06]

k-man:

the only potential problem is that things get auto-expired too quickly if you don't have enough hdd space

[01:15:19]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: TBH, how much of your recordings are baseball where a 4hr game condenses to 20 minutes of actual plays

[01:15:28]

Beirdo:

almost none

[01:15:28]

k-man:

that has happened to me a few times – especially that I record lots of kids shows now for my son, so there is less space for my shows now

[01:15:36]

Beirdo:

the only games I record are the all-star games

[01:15:39]

wagnerrp:

and 200 minutes of the pitcher staring at the batter and scratching his balls

[01:16:08]

Beirdo:

don't forget spitting tobacco...

[01:16:17]

Beirdo:

oh wait, they don't do that much anymore

[01:16:34]

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[01:17:10]

k-man:

what is it with baseball and chewing tabacco?

[01:17:26]

Beirdo:

dunno, it's mostly a thing of the past now

[01:17:30]

k-man:

I have a friend who plays baseball here, and he chews tabacco when they play (in AU)

[01:17:52]

wagnerrp:

gah... i repeatedly miss the first bit of a recording, so i set it to start 2 minutes early

[01:18:03]

mrshaketouchpad:

10 tb of drives is going to get expensive

[01:18:03]

wagnerrp:

now i have 4 minutes of ads in the beginning of it

[01:18:14]

wagnerrp:

mrshaketouchpad: only now post-flooding

[01:18:22]

wagnerrp:

pre-flooding, thats about $400 worth

[01:18:30]

mrshaketouchpad:

that's what I'm saying

[01:18:55]

wagnerrp:

give it six months to a year, well be back down below where we were

[01:19:11]

mrshaketouchpad:

I'm going to run antenna direct to the TVs as well, so there is always that for live tv

[01:20:29]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: so do you think this Peters character is trying to run mythtv in a PBS studio?

[01:20:56]

Beirdo:

Hmmm, let me go read :)

[01:21:20]

wagnerrp:

hes looking for multi-headed video output

[01:21:24]

wagnerrp:

one with OSD, one without

[01:21:42]

Beirdo:

ahhh, yes, that one

[01:21:55]

Beirdo:

Heh, you know, it wouldn't surprise me

[01:23:21]

Beirdo:

seems to be his day job anyways, so yeah, wouldn't be too far of a leap

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[01:24:46]

Beirdo:

oooh... Metallica – Eye of the Beholder

[01:25:03]

Beirdo:

I tell ya, their earlier stuff was quite good

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[01:28:46]

Beirdo:

good enough that I'll allow it on my "Megadeth Radio" station on Pandora :)

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wagnerrp:

more anachronism than you can shake an iron at... Predator drone used to apprehend cattle rustlers

[01:48:30]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:48:52]

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[01:48:52]

** Beirdo is enjoying some old Iron Maiden. Man that bassist rules. **

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[01:49:52]

Beirdo:

I never really paid much attention to it, but it's the bass in their music that makes me like it, not the guitars

[01:51:39]

LTHorn:

for a fronted box would a i5 sandybridge be enough without a graphics card or would a graphics card still be needed?

[01:52:00]

wagnerrp:

should work without a graphics card, but an nvidia card would still be preferable

[01:52:23]

LTHorn:

ah yes.. plays nicer with linux

[01:52:48]

LTHorn:

so a cheaper processor with an nvidia card would be ideal

[01:53:29]

wagnerrp:

a processor fast enough to deal with whatever content you throw at it in software, and an nvidia graphics chip, would be ideal

[01:53:51]

wagnerrp:

a higher end dual core should be sufficient for just about anything you come up against

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LTHorn:

how decent of a gpu would I need?

[01:57:38]

wagnerrp:

anything 8-series or better would work

[01:57:46]

wagnerrp:

GT210 is the current 'cheap' card

[01:58:10]

wagnerrp:

GT220 or GT430 would give you support for all the deinterlacers VDPAU offers

[02:01:15]

LTHorn:

is 210 better than 8 series?

[02:01:37]

wagnerrp:

yes, but thats not the bigger issue

[02:01:45]

wagnerrp:

the 8 and 9 cards are no longer produced

[02:01:55]

wagnerrp:

meaning they are getting more expensive as stocks dry up

[02:02:04]

wagnerrp:

the GT210 is the current cheapest VDPAU card

[02:02:06]

LTHorn:

ah

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LTHorn:

hard to find one that's low profile.

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[02:06:48]

skd5aner:

ugh – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Route_of_All_Evil so, is it s03e12 or s05e03? :P

[02:07:50]

skd5aner:

"The Route of All Evil" is the forty-fourth episode of Futurama, the twelfth of the third production season and the third of the fifth broadcast season, being the episode airing furtherest from when it was produced."

[02:08:35]

skd5aner:

this is a ploy to make you buy all "volumes" of the futurama DVD series since none of them contain a complete broadcast season

[02:08:44]

skd5aner:

genius Matt Groening, genius!

[02:08:50]

Beirdo:

hard to believe this music is almost 30 years old

[02:10:37]

skd5aner:

hard to believe it's /only/ 30 years old ;)

[02:12:10]

Beirdo:

hahah

[02:12:44]

Beirdo:

early/mid 80s music is still high on my list

[02:15:30]

skd5aner:

yea – seems we all have our periods of "timeless" music

[02:16:29]

Beirdo:

been watching a pile of concert footage from 1983 Dortmund Festival

[02:16:41]

skd5aner:

my library is heavily weighted to the early to mid 90s

[02:16:45]

Beirdo:

Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, now Quiet Riot

[02:17:11]

Beirdo:

looks like an amazing festival to have been at

[02:17:26]

skd5aner:

I'm always amazed at the European Festivals

[02:17:34]

skd5aner:

insane...

[02:17:57]

skd5aner:

"I was in the 36,000'th row for Metalica!"

[02:18:17]

Beirdo:

this one festival had... Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Scorpions, Quiet Riot, Def Leppard, Ozzy

[02:18:27]

Beirdo:

all in their peak

[02:18:45]

skd5aner:

you watch a lot of VH1 Classic?

[02:19:07]

Beirdo:

not usually, no time for that :) I'm at work, using Youtube :)

[02:19:22]

skd5aner:

if only you had a DVR or something like it

[02:19:48]

Beirdo:

like I have time to watch the 20+h/day I record now

[02:19:50]

skd5aner:

I've started recording some of the newer concert footage from Palladia

[02:20:15]

Beirdo:

I remember this song when it came out.

[02:20:31]

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Beirdo:

bang your head! metal health will drive you mad!

[02:24:28]

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[02:28:39]

tripppy:

hi all! Am i right in thinking that both frontends and backends need to be the same version?

[02:28:53]

tripppy:

to work correctly...

[02:29:09]

Beirdo:

yes

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[02:56:39]

LTHorn:

xfx gt520 Fermi $50, antec 550w modular psu $70, gskill 2x4gb $40, gigabyte ga-h61m-ds2 mobo, intelligence i3 3.3 dc 65w, Silverstone case. I already have a hdd at home.. this would run frontend only for hd playback. I thoughts?

[02:57:12]

wagnerrp:

why do you need a 550W power supply?

[02:57:22]

LTHorn:

oh mobo was $50 and cpu was $120

[02:57:37]

LTHorn:

It was the cheapest modular

[02:57:46]

wagnerrp:

all that hardware would use no more than 125W under full load

[02:58:03]

wagnerrp:

why do you need a modular power supply?

[02:58:08]

LTHorn:

I know they just did have a smaller modular

[02:58:17]

LTHorn:

space saving

[02:58:22]

wagnerrp:

its a frontend, its not like youre going to frequently pluging and unplugging things

[02:58:38]

wagnerrp:

clump all the excess wires together, and tie them off in the corner of the case

[02:59:18]

wagnerrp:

get a small power supply thats only going to have the 24 and 8 pin connectors, plus one strand of molex and one of sata

[02:59:19]

LTHorn:

do you think the cpu is too much?

[02:59:36]

wagnerrp:

cpu is fine, you cant get a smaller i3

[02:59:51]

wagnerrp:

although you would likely be fine with the 2.7 or 2.8 Pentium

[03:00:04]

wagnerrp:

(1155 pentium)

[03:01:05]

LTHorn:

there wasn't a huge price difference I was trying to find a 35w but the only good priced ones didn't have ht

[03:01:55]

wagnerrp:

ht...

[03:01:58]

wagnerrp:

hyperthreading?

[03:03:49]

LTHorn:

yea

[03:03:59]

wagnerrp:

what for?

[03:05:06]

LTHorn:

better multitasking?... now that I think about it it doesn't seem needed

[03:07:25]

LTHorn:

intel g620 2.6ghz?

[03:07:34]

wagnerrp:

probably a bit light

[03:07:36]

LTHorn:

$70

[03:07:41]

wagnerrp:

depends on what you intend to watch

[03:07:59]

LTHorn:

up to and including bluray

[03:08:11]

wagnerrp:

hdpvr should work, so should broadcast mpeg2 and likely broadcast h264

[03:08:22]

wagnerrp:

you might be a bit lax with the highest bitrate bluray

[03:08:44]

LTHorn:

I'll be getting a infinitv 4

[03:09:54]

wagnerrp:

HD MPEG2, doesnt need that much

[03:10:06]

wagnerrp:

bluray would be the only thing of concern

[03:10:15]

wagnerrp:

and a 2.6 sandy bridge should be sufficient

[03:10:18]

LTHorn:

that much in what regard?

[03:10:28]

wagnerrp:

but you might want to give yourself a bit of headroom

[03:10:44]

LTHorn:

then ill stick with the i3

[03:11:16]

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[03:11:46]

LTHorn:

changed out the psu for a sparkle 350w for $37

[03:12:00]

wagnerrp:

80Plus?

[03:12:10]

LTHorn:

never heard of the brand but had 5eggs with 44 reviewa

[03:12:38]

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[03:13:05]

wagnerrp:

they generally dont sell stuff of their own brand

[03:13:12]

LTHorn:

no > 70. 80PLUS will be a lot more

[03:13:18]

wagnerrp:

it usually gets rebranded through another retailer

[03:13:22]

wagnerrp:

no it wont

[03:13:48]

_Anomaly is now known as Anomaly

[03:14:15]

Anomaly is now known as _Anomaly

[03:14:45]

wagnerrp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151086

[03:15:08]

wagnerrp:

$40, 80+Bronze

[03:15:11]

LTHorn:

just pulled that one up myself lol

[03:15:22]

wagnerrp:

with a big fan so its nice and quiet

[03:16:05]

LTHorn:

I'd opt for the cooler master. its a better brand

[03:16:10]

wagnerrp:

nah

[03:16:14]

LTHorn:

and only a dollar more

[03:16:17]

wagnerrp:

ever heard people raving over Antec PSUs?

[03:16:27]

LTHorn:

no

[03:16:49]

LTHorn:

I've never heard of anyone rave over any psu

[03:17:00]

wagnerrp:

well anyway, i would trust Antec over just about any other PSU manufacturer, and theyre just rebranded SeaSonics

[03:17:28]

LTHorn:

that I didn't know

[03:18:43]

wagnerrp:

i dont see any 80+ coolermaster for that cheap anyway

[03:18:55]

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[03:19:10]

wagnerrp:

theres a 450W

[03:19:11]

LTHorn:

It's there

[03:19:29]

LTHorn:

Yeah that one.. more power than I'd need

[03:19:30]

wagnerrp:

but thats so high, under full load you wont even hit the range that 80+ certifies under

[03:19:35]

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[03:19:45]

wagnerrp:

80+ only rates down to 20% load

[03:19:53]

LTHorn:

387 at the door

[03:20:14]

wagnerrp:

and youre not likely to ever hit 90W

[03:20:57]

wagnerrp:

thats the real problem with all these power supplies

[03:21:11]

wagnerrp:

theyre only going to be efficient when running at a decent percent of their maximum load

[03:21:45]

wagnerrp:

and unless youre running a ton of hard drives, or multiple video cards, youre never going to need anything like the kind of power theyre selling

[03:22:26]

wagnerrp:

you want to buy one as closely matched to your load as possible

[03:22:33]

wagnerrp:

and no one sells in that range

[03:23:21]

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[03:23:56]

hoolio:

"theyre only going to be efficient when running at a decent percent of their maximum load"

[03:24:05]

hoolio:

why is that exactly?

[03:24:23]

hoolio:

i should add, i know sfa about electronics

[03:24:52]

wagnerrp:

you need more hardware to provide more power

[03:25:15]

wagnerrp:

when you dont need all that power, that hardware is all still there, active, causing resistance

[03:25:33]

hoolio:

so, the PSU will deliver it's x watts regardless of the load?

[03:26:03]

wagnerrp:

no, but the PSU is going to have a minimum amount of parasitic loss whenever the main rails are energized

[03:26:17]

hoolio:

oh

[03:26:36]

wagnerrp:

it will have more parasitic loss when under heavy load, but its not linear

[03:27:16]

_Anomaly is now known as Anomaly_

[03:27:25]

LTHorn:

It's like a horsepower curve if you are into cars

[03:27:30]

wagnerrp:

as mentioned, 80+ rating only matters for power consumption over 20% load

[03:27:39]

Anomaly_ is now known as Anomaly

[03:27:55]

wagnerrp:

that means a 500W power supply at 20% load (100W) will consume no more than 20W parasitic load

[03:28:02]

Anomaly is now known as Anomaly`

[03:28:19]

wagnerrp:

at 10% (50W) load, it may still draw 15W parasitic load

[03:28:56]

wagnerrp:

while at 250W, it may only draw 45W of its own

[03:29:10]

hoolio:

ok

[03:30:12]

hoolio:

vaguely similar to reciprocating mass in a internal combustion engine ?

[03:30:32]

wagnerrp:

reciprocating mass is not drawing any power

[03:30:36]

hoolio:

the larger the capacity, the higher the mass, the more power needed to simply rotate it?

[03:30:45]

wagnerrp:

it takes energy to spin up, but it takes nothing to keep it rotating

[03:31:01]

hoolio:

that's not exactly true

[03:31:09]

hoolio:

but i get why it's not a good comparison

[03:31:10]

wagnerrp:

its basic physics, yes its true

[03:31:27]

wagnerrp:

what does happen is that the larger rotating mass means larger or more cylinders

[03:31:44]

wagnerrp:

which means more surface area where the piston rubs against the cylinder, meaning more friction

[03:32:03]

hoolio:

heavier crankshaft, flywheel etc

[03:32:09]

wagnerrp:

it also means more air that youre pumping with each stroke, even if you dont need the power

[03:32:47]

hoolio:

hrm

[03:32:54]

hoolio:

bad analogy then

[03:33:19]

wagnerrp:

which is where modern variable displacement engines come in

[03:33:33]

hoolio:

ok ;) you can stop now

[03:33:35]

hoolio:

hehe

[03:33:47]

wagnerrp:

under light load, you disconnect certain cylinders from the crankshaft

[03:34:01]

wagnerrp:

forcing those connected valves to always be closed

[03:34:07]

wagnerrp:

no air to pump in, no exhaust to pump out

[03:34:18]

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[03:34:19]

wagnerrp:

so your aerodynamic pumping losses go to zero

[03:34:31]

wagnerrp:

all you have left are the frictional losses in the cylinder

[03:34:38]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[03:34:49]

wagnerrp:

as mentioned, crankshafts and flywheels have inertia

[03:34:55]

hoolio:

:)

[03:34:59]

wagnerrp:

they take power to spin up, but they do not take power to maintain spinning

[03:35:06]

Beirdo:

that is the very purpose of the flywheel

[03:35:09]

wagnerrp:

basic physics here folks

[03:35:29]

wagnerrp:

larger flywheels reduce acceleration, but they do not decrease mileage

[03:35:31]

Beirdo:

(minimal power to maintain spinning, equal to the friction)

[03:35:48]

wagnerrp:

(well... except for the fact that you have larger mass resulting in larger rolling losses in the pneumatic wheels)

[03:36:03]

Beirdo:

minor details :)

[03:36:05]

wagnerrp:

in theory, you could do the same exact thing with a power supply

[03:36:25]

Beirdo:

very large crapacitors

[03:36:26]

wagnerrp:

have multiple redundant systems, capable of say 100W each

[03:36:35]

Beirdo:

how did that r get in there?

[03:36:43]

wagnerrp:

at 50W, you only have one energized

[03:36:59]

wagnerrp:

if you suddenly jump to 500W load, you energize five more

[03:37:20]

Beirdo:

kinda like AWS for yer webserver to live through being slashdotted

[03:37:29]

wagnerrp:

but then 6 100W units cost more than 1 600W unit, and are considerably larger

[03:37:34]

wagnerrp:

so its a tradeoff

[03:37:44]

wagnerrp:

youre seeing the same thing happen in modern CPUs

[03:38:02]

wagnerrp:

multiple cores, but if you only need the power of one core, the others are isolated and deactivated

[03:38:12]

Beirdo:

mmmm, Tegra3

[03:38:40]

wagnerrp:

yeah, tegra has four normal high speed cores, and a fifth low speed one that takes over when you have no multimedia needs

[03:39:09]

Beirdo:

still want one :)

[03:42:31]

wagnerrp:

erm... the valved are disconnected from the camshaft... not the pistons from the crankshaft

[03:42:49]

wagnerrp:

i couldnt even imagine the kind of linkages needed to allow a detachable piston

[03:43:10]

wagnerrp:

valves

[03:59:52]

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[04:01:16]

Beirdo:

eek, that would be awkward

[04:08:15]

wagnerrp:

i suppose you could have all your gears/belts/what-have-you connected on one side of the engine

[04:08:29]

wagnerrp:

and clutch off sections of the crank

[04:08:39]

Beirdo:

yeah, that might work

[04:09:03]

Beirdo:

but I don't think you'd want to physically disconnect the piston from the crankshaft

[04:09:18]

wagnerrp:

or really could in any feasible manner

[04:09:31]

Beirdo:

as reconnecting them... under power... might cause many flying pieces of metal

[04:12:29]

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[04:16:50]

LTHorn:

for a frontend box.. soundcard vs onboard audio

[04:17:10]

Beirdo:

yes

[04:17:22]

wagnerrp:

analog or digital audio?

[04:17:47]

LTHorn:

digital

[04:17:54]

wagnerrp:

doesnt matter

[04:18:35]

LTHorn:

just have to find a micro atx board that's cheap and has digital onboard

[04:18:51]

wagnerrp:

as far as mythtv is concerned, the only thing to be gained from a discrete sound card is better DACs

[04:19:15]

LTHorn:

ok

[04:19:27]

wagnerrp:

you said you were going with a GT520?

[04:20:19]

LTHorn:

yeah

[04:20:33]

wagnerrp:

thats your sound card

[04:21:11]

LTHorn:

bah there is only one board that has both optical and digital and it's 150

[04:21:30]

LTHorn:

coaxial*

[04:21:57]

wagnerrp:

why would you want optical or coaxial?

[04:22:45]

LTHorn:

for more options if I get a different receiver Down the doad

[04:22:47]

LTHorn:

road

[04:23:04]

wagnerrp:

for a different receiver down the road, you wouldnt use either

[04:23:21]

wagnerrp:

for any receiver purchased in the last couple years, you wouldnt use either

[04:23:35]

LTHorn:

oh?

[04:23:43]

wagnerrp:

SPDIF is antiquated and deprecated

[04:23:47]

LTHorn:

they'd use hdmi

[04:23:59]

[R]:

wagnerrp: thats what she said

[04:24:16]

wagnerrp:

SPDIF only does 2-channel LPCM, AC3, and DTS

[04:25:18]

LTHorn:

so will the hdmi on the graphics card also pull audio through it?

[04:25:45]

wagnerrp:

s/pull/push/

[04:26:01]

LTHorn:

?

[04:26:13]

wagnerrp:

the graphics card is a sound card

[04:26:17]

wagnerrp:

it pushes out audio over HDMI

[04:26:30]

Beirdo:

Hmm

[04:26:40]

wagnerrp:

the 8 and 9 series included SPDIF pins to multiplex SPDIF signals into the HDMI output

[04:26:48]

Beirdo:

I think on a "recording started" event, we do listen to the return value

[04:26:54]

wagnerrp:

all the GT and later cards included internal audio hardware

[04:27:01]

LTHorn:

OK then it doesn't matter just so long as the mobo has onboard audio

[04:27:03]

Beirdo:

I'd have to double-check though

[04:27:07]

wagnerrp:

they appear to the system as a HDA device

[04:27:22]

wagnerrp:

no, the video card is the sound card

[04:27:27]

wagnerrp:

the motherboard has nothing to do with it

[04:27:29]

Beirdo:

or maybe that was something I was going to add.

[04:27:31]

Beirdo:

hmm

[04:28:02]

LTHorn:

of even better

[04:28:20]

LTHorn:

oh*

[04:30:25]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: their earlier stuff was much better than their older, but no one knew how to waste an otherwise perfectly good intro to a song like them

[04:31:13]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:31:29]

wagnerrp:

Battery... fantastic intro to a song... _awful_ song

[04:34:51]

wagnerrp:

theres only one worse instance of that ive ever heard

[04:34:57]

wagnerrp:

but i cant think of it off hand

[04:38:13]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: also... http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2011 . . . /325021.html

[04:38:23]

wagnerrp:

customer in need of assistance

[04:38:34]

Beirdo:

yeah, I saw it

[04:38:38]

wagnerrp:

is that something thats just automagically handled by the signal monitor in 0.24?

[04:38:55]

Beirdo:

It might be, yeah

[04:39:08]

Beirdo:

either way, he's not getting "restarting the recording"

[04:39:22]

Beirdo:

not without a significant rewrite of scheduling

[04:39:54]

Beirdo:

I *think* it effectively stops immediately for me, but it might be because reads from the device fail while I reset it

[04:39:58]

Beirdo:

and that aborts the recording

[04:40:19]

Beirdo:

either way. 0.23-fixes is ancient

[04:40:24]

wagnerrp:

i recall last time i tried to force a recording to restart, i had to dig into the database and delete all record of it (recorded and oldrecorded) before restarting the backend

[04:40:30]

wagnerrp:

anything less wouldnt do it

[04:40:46]

wagnerrp:

i had to make the backend think it was starting fresh with no previous attempt

[04:40:50]

Beirdo:

Oh, it definitely gets rescheduled on failure/0 byte now

[04:41:11]

wagnerrp:

rescheduled for a later date

[04:41:13]

Beirdo:

just not immediately in the same timeslot

[04:41:19]

wagnerrp:

im talking about starting back up on that specific instance

[04:41:29]

wagnerrp:

it was not easy to pull off

[04:41:39]

Beirdo:

that's not coded last I looked :)

[04:41:43]

Beirdo:

not simple at all

[04:41:58]

wagnerrp:

no, i mean it actively fought my attempts to restart the recording

[04:42:54]

Beirdo:

yeah, it's not designed for that

[04:43:13]

wagnerrp:

i mean, its specifically designed to not do that

[04:43:56]

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[04:46:36]

Beirdo:

yeah

[04:55:05]

LTHorn:

when will .25 be released any ideas?

[04:55:24]

[R]:

LTHorn: when its ready

[04:56:45]

LTHorn:

well at least .24 has a way to get the infinitv 4 working with it

[04:58:10]

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[05:05:24]

LTHorn:

OK this may be stupid.. but once I have the front end box up and running what are my options for controlling it?

[05:07:44]

wagnerrp:

usually LIRC

[05:08:32]

[R]:

or yo ucould donane some money to me

[05:08:35]

[R]:

im working on thought control

[05:08:39]

[R]:

donate*

[05:09:00]

LTHorn:

OK. simple enough. I have built ir receivers beford

[05:09:20]

LTHorn:

e

[05:11:43]

wagnerrp:

[R]: only $20K per unit?

[05:11:51]

[R]:

lol

[05:12:40]

wagnerrp:

guided device training sessions available, 30 4-hr sessions at $200 each

[05:12:52]

[R]:

hehe

[05:13:16]

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[05:13:23]

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[05:13:26]

wagnerrp:

thought control really isnt that difficult to pull of right now

[05:13:41]

wagnerrp:

its the training thats the killer

[05:14:05]

wagnerrp:

since youre effectively training yourself to manipulate that chunk of brain

[05:14:24]

wagnerrp:

and at the same time, training the computer as to what that does

[05:15:15]

[R]:

i was thinking about implanting a bluetooth transmitter in the brain

[05:15:28]

wagnerrp:

you're effectively learning to use a new appendage

[05:16:26]

Beirdo:

let's hope it's not like the phallic type of appendage. Those tend to have a mind of their own.

[05:16:40]

[R]:

HAHA

[05:16:55]

wagnerrp:

you mean... like a tail?

[05:17:37]

[R]:

"Oh, look, it's got a mind of it's own, sweetheart. I can't do a thing with it."

[05:17:38]

Beirdo:

is that what the kids be calling it these days?

[05:17:47]

** wagnerrp Barfs **

[05:20:47]

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justinh:

mplayer forked? oh lordy

[10:17:15]

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[10:17:40]

wagnerrp:

oh?

[10:18:46]

justinh:

back in april apparently. lol

[10:18:55]

justinh:

mplayer2.org

[10:19:39]

wagnerrp:

oh, yeah, i remember hearing something about that

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[17:20:04]

Unguided:

wagnerp: are you around?

[17:20:41]

Unguided:

wagnerrp: are you around?

[17:20:58]

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[17:23:28]

wagnerrp:

yes

[17:25:37]

Unguided:

wagnerrp: just wanted to let you know I found the nvidia gt520 vid cards we talked about the other day for $30 per card after rebate. made by zotac. those should work right?

[17:27:10]

wagnerrp:

should work fine, yes

[17:28:02]

Unguided:

Sweet. not long now until mediatainement bliss

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Unguided:

wagnerrp: alright off to sleep. i worked all night. talk to u later and thanks again for your help

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[18:01:07]

ThisNewGuy:

Hi all, I recently added a new 3TB drive to a windows box which I shared via samba to my mythbackend. My SG disk scheduler uses "balanced free space" which means that all new shows are getting written to this drive. I think I want the "Disk IO / Free Space Combo" option to cut down on the network usage – does this make sense? Does anyone use the Disk IO scheduler? Is it a bad idea?

[18:02:03]

wagnerrp:

why not put the 3TB drive on the backend, and share via samba?

[18:02:38]

ThisNewGuy:

I don't have any physical space left in the backend (it already has two drives and only space in the case for 2 total)

[18:02:51]

wagnerrp:

get a bigger case

[18:03:25]

ThisNewGuy:

not an option at the moment

[18:04:01]

wagnerrp:

sit the drive on the bottom of the case, rather than mount it

[18:04:13]

wagnerrp:

get adapters and mount it in a 5.25" bay

[18:04:16]

ThisNewGuy:

so you're saying anything other than samba?

[18:04:48]

wagnerrp:

im saying if you dont want mythtv to record over the network, dont point it at a drive across the network

[18:05:03]

wagnerrp:

anything free-space related will hit that first

[18:05:04]

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[18:05:17]

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[18:05:18]

wagnerrp:

anything IO related will hit another drive first, but the second recording will go to the 3TB disk

[18:05:29]

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[18:05:36]

wagnerrp:

for what its worth, youre talking about all of 2MB/s up and 2MB/s back down

[18:05:47]

ThisNewGuy:

that's my goal – to use the network drive if the others are being used

[18:05:56]

wagnerrp:

hardly consequential to a gigabit network

[18:06:38]

wagnerrp:

note that mythvideo is known to have performance issues with CIFS shares

[18:06:59]

wagnerrp:

normal usage is fine, but if you intend to put a large video library on there, scanning is painful

[18:07:28]

wagnerrp:

seems CIFS doesnt like doing recursive directory searches

[18:07:46]

ThisNewGuy:

k – thanks

[18:08:17]

wagnerrp:

it would still be better to put the drive on another linux box and share it over nfs

[18:09:00]

wagnerrp:

local >> nfs > cifs

[18:09:17]

ThisNewGuy:

makes sense

[18:16:46]

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[18:29:21]

skd5aner:

my physical backend has space for 6 3.25 drive bays

[18:29:39]

skd5aner:

all of which are full, so I've got a couple 5.25 bay adapter brackets if I need to add more

[18:29:46]

skd5aner:

er , 3.5"

[18:30:14]

skd5aner:

it's a good solution if the only reason you didn't put it there was because there wasn't an open bay

[18:30:37]

joemyth:

maybe one of those USB enclosure things.. not super expensive i think

[18:31:05]

skd5aner:

local >> nfs > cifs > USB (imho)

[18:31:32]

iamlindoro:

Mine has room for 18... all are full

[18:31:51]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: do you use a seperate enclosure?

[18:31:56]

iamlindoro:

I'm starting to feel the itch for a rebuild, but the case probably isn't going anywhere

[18:31:57]

iamlindoro:

nope

[18:32:01]

iamlindoro:

all in the one case

[18:32:05]

jm|laptop:

/dev/sdb 1.9T 1.3T 550G 71% /home/mythtv/storage/default/default1

[18:32:06]

jm|laptop:

/dev/sda 1.9T 932G 931G 51% /home/mythtv/storage/default/default2

[18:32:22]

jm|laptop:

mythtv is clever

[18:32:23]

skd5aner:

which case?

[18:32:27]

joemyth:

with a USB enclosure you can move the drives around when you need which can save quite a bit of time, like if ur installing a replacement box etc

[18:32:47]

wagnerrp:

18? pssh

[18:33:03]

skd5aner:

joemyth: USB is good for backups and dumping simple data to/from... not necessarily for intensive read/writes such as video

[18:33:08]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: Lian Li, can't recall the model offhand

[18:33:17]

wagnerrp:

V2000 and friends

[18:33:32]

wagnerrp:

they all have a similar 12-drive bay in the bottom

[18:33:34]

iamlindoro:

yeah, more or less

[18:34:03]

wagnerrp:

two pairs of 6, horizontal, below the motherboard section

[18:34:12]

wagnerrp:

one pair, rather

[18:34:19]

iamlindoro:

It's a very nice case-- sturdy, too

[18:34:27]

skd5aner:

http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product0 . . . ;ss_index=66 ?

[18:34:37]

skd5aner:

like that?

[18:35:02]

joemyth:

skd5aner: I find that with my DVR, performance is more of a yes/no question.. it either works smoothly when i'm watching or it doesnt

[18:35:15]

iamlindoro:

That looks similar but not exactly the same-- mine has a perforatd front like a mac pro

[18:35:28]

iamlindoro:

Google lian li v2000

[18:35:30]

skd5aner:

joemyth: if you have to go external, then you at least should look for esata options

[18:35:39]

skd5aner:

(for a mythtv recording drive use case)

[18:36:16]

wagnerrp:

http://www.elec-intro.com/EX/05-14-20/lian-li . . . plus-2-5.jpg

[18:36:48]

wagnerrp:

basically, the entire bottom half of the case are two 6-high horizontal drive bays

[18:37:20]

joemyth:

skd5aner: i agree about recording to local drives only, just to avoid issues, but imported media I plop anywhere

[18:37:21]

iamlindoro:

God, bash scripting is just horrifically ugly

[18:37:34]

iamlindoro:

it's amazing that people bother to learn this garbage when actual code is both easier and cleaner

[18:37:54]

** joemyth is a mostly bash guy **

[18:38:02]

wagnerrp:

you could actually fit 23 drives in there

[18:38:07]

iamlindoro:

Nobody is a "bash guy"

[18:38:23]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: what about the guy who wrote the bash irc client?

[18:38:37]

iamlindoro:

Bash is something you use because you have no idea how much earier it would be to learn something practical, because "programming is hard" in big fat quotes

[18:38:44]

iamlindoro:

s/earier/easier/

[18:39:02]

** joemyth is a former developer who now uses bash more than any other language **

[18:39:13]

iamlindoro:

Well that's just plain silly

[18:39:15]

wagnerrp:

bash is something you do when you just need to throw together a couple external processes in batch manner

[18:39:42]

wagnerrp:

or, when you want something lightweight and statically compiled for use as an init system

[18:39:54]

wagnerrp:

although personally, that use is highly overrated

[18:39:58]

iamlindoro:

If you're using bash rather than an actual language, then you aren't attempting to solve anything which would be better suited to a real language

[18:39:59]

joemyth:

I'm an SA, so most of the scripting I do typically requires OS commands.. I will use perl sometimes but if every third line is a 'system' command, I just use bash

[18:40:21]

wagnerrp:

joemyth: the issue is what youre doing in between those system commands

[18:40:48]

wagnerrp:

and for anything more than basic passing of data, testing if files exist, or testing if a command completed successfully, bash is a poor choice

[18:40:56]

iamlindoro:

Then that's not solving a programming problem with bash

[18:41:05]

iamlindoro:

it's using bash for the intended purpose

[18:41:23]

wagnerrp:

once you start getting into anything like complex conditionals, or text processing, it rapidly becomes clumsy and a detriment to solving the problem

[18:41:30]

joemyth:

it's definitely easier to do text processing, etc, with perl/python, but often times bash makes more sense. awk/sed can do alot of intricate stuff as well

[18:42:57]

wagnerrp:

sure, you can pump all sorts of stuff through awk/sed, but how long does it take you to learn the esoteric language of multi-line sed processing, versus just writing it in something like perl/python

[18:43:42]

wagnerrp:

if you continue tacking external calls onto bash to make up for its deficiencies, at some point, its just better to use a language without such deficiencies

[18:43:55]

iamlindoro:

not to mention the horror of only performing one operation per command with each of them

[18:44:04]

joemyth:

there's a lot of benefit to being able to do various things on the CLI without needing to pull up an editor

[18:44:11]

iamlindoro:

so you can have fugly garbage like title="$(echo "$5" | sed 's/(//g' | sed 's/)//g' | sed 's/:/_/g' | sed 's%/%_%g')"

[18:44:33]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: you can do that in one pass with a multi-line sed program

[18:44:42]

wagnerrp:

but them youre effectively programming in sed, rather than bash

[18:45:24]

wagnerrp:

its like running a big XSLT routing through python, and claiming you programmed it in python (i.e. ttvdb.py)

[18:45:32]

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[18:45:34]

wagnerrp:

s/routing/routine/

[18:46:33]

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[18:46:48]

wagnerrp:

you can even just do multiple independent processing strings... sed -e 's/(//g' -e 's/)//g' -e 's/:/_/g' ...

[18:46:59]

cloudy_qam:

can anyone tell me if the mythtv book by apress is worth getting or is it too old to be relevant?

[18:47:14]

wagnerrp:

isnt that thing from like 2006?

[18:47:19]

cloudy_qam:

2007

[18:47:29]

iamlindoro:

Then yes, likely far too old to be relevant

[18:47:50]

cloudy_qam:

just wondering if it has any chapters that are about general subjects like user jobs that might still have relevance

[18:47:53]

iamlindoro:

Anything you would learn from that book is easily available, for free, and much more up to date, in the wiki

[18:48:35]

joemyth:

Ill concede that bash isnt pretty

[18:48:37]

cloudy_qam:

perhaps I should just hang out in here

[18:48:37]

cloudy_qam:

lol

[18:48:38]

joemyth:

http://tinyurl.com/7ldb8yj

[18:48:42]

wagnerrp:

joemyth: basically, were fed up with users churning out thousand line bash script after bash script, all duplicating much of the same exact behavior

[18:49:06]

wagnerrp:

when the same capability could be written in a third the lines and a quarter the time in perl/python

[18:49:24]

wagnerrp:

or even less if that repeated code gets dumped into their respective myth bindings

[18:49:46]

sphery:

iamlindoro: and some people didn't get the idea that "integrated" doesn't mean, "running as just another thread in the backend process," but means, "not a collection of bash hacks"

[18:49:49]

wagnerrp:

basically, when you access a mysql database from within bash, you have exceeded the scope of that language and need to move onto something better suited

[18:50:03]

sphery:

(likely a different subject, but as long as bash is being discussed here :)

[18:50:31]

wagnerrp:

yeah, when that ticket was closed... i figured 'integrated' meant 'built into mythcommflag'

[18:50:37]

sphery:

right

[18:50:43]

sphery:

or any other actual program

[18:50:58]

iamlindoro:

sphery: You mean the vindication some people feel when their idea is implemented properly, which they believe means their ticket with bash hacks should never have been closed?

[18:51:00]

sphery:

versus a collection of bash scripts that call other programs that aren't even tuned to do what we're doing

[18:51:18]

sphery:

iamlindoro: what do you mean? His code was finally accepted, right?

[18:51:20]

iamlindoro:

Not that we're discussing anything specific, of course

[18:51:24]

iamlindoro:

Purely theoretical

[18:51:41]

iamlindoro:

sphery: I'm sure it was just "proof of concept"

[18:51:45]

sphery:

yep

[18:51:54]

sphery:

and now it's proven that it's the right way

[18:51:56]

iamlindoro:

"Here's a bash hack... now I've proven it... just translate to C++ and voila!"

[18:52:17]

iamlindoro:

"I did the hard stuff, now all you need to do is 'massage' it into a real language!"

[18:53:20]

joemyth:

"when you access a mysql database from within bash, you have exceeded the scope of that language" <- mysql backup scripts?

[18:53:32]

sphery:

Phase 1: Write bash hack. Phase 2: ?. Phase 3: Profit

[18:53:32]

wagnerrp:

isnt the whole definition of a 'proof of concept' supposed to be the easy route, so you can prove its a worthwhile endeavor quickly, before spending a lot of time to do it properly?

[18:53:58]

wagnerrp:

joemyth: thats not accessing a mysql database, thats just running an external command

[18:54:20]

sphery:

and using bash to check prerequisites/set up the environment

[18:54:27]

wagnerrp:

joemyth: i could clarify 'reading information from a mysql database'

[18:55:02]

joemyth:

i'm just saying.. my job would be %30 more difficult if I had to use perl instead of bash

[18:56:05]

iamlindoro:

And we're just saying that the discussion isn't about using bash for its intended purpose

[18:56:21]

wagnerrp:

joemyth: and were saying that means the scripts you write for your job are not very complex, more of linear batch scripts than real conditional programming

[18:56:31]

iamlindoro:

It's about using bash as a stand-in for a real language to solve a problem that cries out for actual code

[18:59:29]

joemyth:

it has its strengths and weaknesses.. dont bash bash

[19:00:10]

joemyth:

I did a couple of years of development in PL/1 + REXX – believe me there are worse things than bash

[19:00:25]

wagnerrp:

no, were bashing the segment of our user base who consistently seem to write utilities well into bash's weaknesses

[19:00:30]

sphery:

joemyth: FWIW, the first implementation of the backup/restore scripts for MythTV were done in sh--because they, too (just like the mysql ones), are just checking prerequisites and setting up the environment before calling mysqldump or mysql--but they got so big and unwieldy (with too many calls to external programs like awk and sed) that it made sense to redo them with a different language that could actually do the processing itself.

[19:01:45]

iamlindoro:

And also bashing those who take a good idea and make it into an unusable mess that we can't do anything with because they hack it into a bash script rather than implementing it properly

[19:01:51]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: so what set you off on this... the 'mythbrake' thing?

[19:02:08]

wagnerrp:

or the guy who wants to f--- myth users?

[19:03:03]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: "yes"

[19:03:35]

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[19:06:56]

ThisNewGuy:

I have one of these – it only has room for the 2 hd and my dvd: http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzE4JjU=

[19:09:54]

** ThisNewGuy realizes that he missed the end of the conversation by ~30 mins **

[19:10:21]

ThisNewGuy:

um ... sometimes I run bash scripts on it

[19:10:33]

joemyth:

bash! argh! how dare you!

[19:10:34]

sphery:

hehe

[19:11:05]

wagnerrp:

ThisNewGuy: were not saying bash is 'bad', were saying it is far too often used outside the scope of its intended purpose

[19:11:23]

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[19:12:24]

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[19:13:10]

stickyboy:

Hey, how does MythTV get the nice background images and descriptions for video files?

[19:13:22]

wagnerrp:

what version of mythtv?

[19:13:40]

stickyboy:

wagnerrp: Hmm... .24? I'm actually using Mythbuntu 11.10.

[19:13:49]

joemyth:

bash and politics should be forbidden on this channel

[19:13:49]

wagnerrp:

recordings or videos?

[19:14:05]

stickyboy:

Videos. avi, mkv, etc.

[19:14:09]

wagnerrp:

'w'

[19:14:24]

ThisNewGuy:

wagnerrp: I was just trying to make a (dumb) joke

[19:14:25]

stickyboy:

Lemme run in the other room and try it... brb

[19:15:01]

sphery:

joemyth: and text editor discussions

[19:15:13]

sphery:

(since everyone knows that vi won that fight years ago)

[19:15:23]

joemyth:

ooh i missed text editor debates, lets do that now

[19:16:43]

stickyboy:

wagnerrp: Ok, so that forces a refresh. Now I'm curious about how it determines what the video is? ie, regex extraction of Season/Episode number, episode name, etc?

[19:17:35]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo_File_Parsing

[19:17:56]

stickyboy:

wagnerrp: It seems to choke (understandably) on the various naming schemes: [1x01]... (s01e01), etc.

[19:18:10]

wagnerrp:

see that page

[19:18:14]

sphery:

"the various naming schemes"

[19:18:25]

sphery:

when you rip your videos, use only one

[19:18:31]

sphery:

(and all that that implies...)

[19:18:46]

stickyboy:

sphery: Ok.

[19:18:51]

stickyboy:

wagnerrp: Yah, that's exactly what I wanted.

[19:18:54]

wagnerrp:

anything in parentheses, brackets, or braces are assumed to be garbage, and stripped out

[19:19:12]

stickyboy:

Perfect. Thanks.

[19:19:22]

joemyth:

use a BASH script to mass-rename!

[19:19:59]

joemyth:

actually there's a 'rename' command that does that sort of thing with regexp right?

[19:20:03]

sphery:

joemyth: would that bash script just call the util-linux-ng rename command or the Perl rename command?

[19:20:14]

joemyth:

oh snap

[19:20:18]

sphery:

2 rename commands

[19:20:22]

sphery:

one util-linux-ng

[19:20:24]

sphery:

one perl

[19:20:36]

sphery:

perl one is far more powerful because it uses regexps

[19:21:04]

stickyboy:

joemyth: I'll write mine in vim, that much I know.

[19:21:20]

sphery:

hehe, see, vim won the editor wars

[19:21:40]

sphery:

http://wordwarvi.sourceforge.net/

[19:21:58]

joemyth:

i would use copy con except it doesnt work on *nix

[19:22:44]

jams:

almost as easy as edlin

[19:29:13]

joemyth:

i love defender

[19:29:27]

sphery:

http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html

[19:30:57]

joemyth:

ed is ridiculous

[19:31:54]

sphery:

only the weak minded need to see what they're editing

[19:34:14]

joemyth:

who needs ed when you have echo

[19:35:18]

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[19:35:21]

crak:

hi all

[19:35:32]

crak:

i would like to use my wired network-card for iptv and the wireless card for internet

[19:35:37]

crak:

can anybody tell me how to route/filter that?

[19:35:37]

wagnerrp:

im not entirely understanding your situation

[19:35:41]

wagnerrp:

IPTV comes over... the internet

[19:35:57]

wagnerrp:

if your internet is over wireless, how would you rig it up that data from the internet comes over wired?

[19:36:18]

crak:

wagnerrp: well, iptv comes over port0 out of my fritzbox

[19:36:45]

wagnerrp:

so why not send normal internet traffic through that as well?

[19:36:45]

crak:

wagnerrp: the others are local network ports

[19:37:06]

crak:

wagnerrp: iptv is multicast

[19:37:11]

wagnerrp:

uh huh...

[19:37:22]

wagnerrp:

you join a multicast address

[19:37:30]

wagnerrp:

you dont assign your interface to a multicast address

[19:37:52]

wagnerrp:

you still need a separate non-224/4 address for your system to live on

[19:38:05]

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[19:38:06]

crak:

i think u r right

[19:38:50]

crak:

for now i get my ip-adresses over the network-manager

[19:39:15]

crak:

so all i have to do is to switch the port on the fritzbox

[19:39:41]

crak:

but i want my cable connected to the iptv-port permanently

[19:39:53]

crak:

and do the internet traffic over wireless lan

[19:40:55]

crak:

is anyone familiar with ubuntus network manager telling him howto setup

[19:40:56]

crak:

?

[19:41:39]

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[19:41:53]

wagnerrp:

this special port on your fritz box, it is DMZ'd to the internet directly?

[19:42:05]

wagnerrp:

while the rest of your network is on an internal lan behind a NAT?

[19:42:52]

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[19:43:57]

crak:

wagnerrp: well...

[19:44:18]

crak:

wagnerrp: i think it is separated from normal internet

[19:44:35]

sphery:

sounds like AOL ;)

[19:44:58]

wagnerrp:

IMO, running wired and wireless at the same time to the same router sounds like a horrible idea

[19:45:07]

wagnerrp:

at best an ugly hack to make something work poorly

[19:45:24]

wagnerrp:

the proper solution would involve running both networks through the single network line

[19:45:29]

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[19:45:31]

wagnerrp:

and discarding wireless entirely

[19:46:03]

crak:

wagnerrp: the iptv-port is different from the wireless local network

[19:46:16]

crak:

but i need to set a default gateway

[19:46:23]

crak:

for internet

[19:46:23]

wagnerrp:

so?

[19:46:34]

crak:

and a route for multicast over wired

[19:46:46]

crak:

and i don't know howto do that

[19:47:07]

wagnerrp:

or you set up a VPN through the router to the internal network over the wired link

[19:47:27]

wagnerrp:

or you set up VLANs on your router, to allow access to both logical networks without a VPN

[19:47:53]

wagnerrp:

or you do any number of other things to get all traffic flowing through that one physical wired segment

[19:48:02]

crak:

would be to difficult if possible at all

[19:48:03]

wagnerrp:

rather than split between wired and wireless

[19:48:06]

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[19:48:21]

crak:

forget about wireless

[19:48:40]

crak:

imagine i have to wired nc in my computer

[19:49:00]

crak:

eth0 is for multicast iptv and eth1 is for 192.168... and internet

[19:49:14]

wagnerrp:

unless youre channel bonding, or using it as a gateway, i would still say the same thing

[19:49:47]

crak:

the gateway is the fritzbox

[19:49:56]

crak:

brb.

[19:50:00]

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[19:57:07]

sphery:

wagnerrp: thanks for the reply on that thread... I wanted to, but was sure mine wouldn't be as diplomatic

[19:57:10]

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[19:57:24]

sphery:

so I was giving myself some cool-down time before

[19:59:53]

wagnerrp:

i actually intended to send that last night (and thought i had)

[20:00:10]

wagnerrp:

i got sidetracked somewhere along the line, as usual

[20:00:25]

sphery:

hehe, I know how that goes

[20:02:44]

wagnerrp:

ive got mixed feelings about Brian Murrell's comment

[20:03:50]

wagnerrp:

i agree with his point in principle, but video decoding is really fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things

[20:04:11]

wagnerrp:

and i have no idea how i would reconcile a 'mythdoeverything' with my new jobqueue

[20:04:27]

wagnerrp:

the new jobqueue intends to go the complete opposite direction

[20:04:48]

wagnerrp:

break out everything into tons of different tasks, for individual purposes

[20:05:05]

wagnerrp:

rather than calling one massive application that then decides on its own what it wants to do

[20:08:39]

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[20:19:29]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Well luckily we don't have to worry about any of the "idea men" submitting a big patch to implement their desires

[20:19:34]

iamlindoro:

so just go right on doing what you're doing

[20:23:27]

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[20:46:02]

stickyboy:

So 'w' generates a thumbnail for a media file using ffmpeg or something? Or is it downloading?

[20:46:52]

wagnerrp:

no, it pulls whatever data happens to be available through the metadata grabber

[20:47:05]

wagnerrp:

right now, that means thetvdb.com for television, and themoviedb.org for movies

[20:47:22]

stickyboy:

Good to know.

[20:47:33]

stickyboy:

Since I'm on 3G hehe.

[20:48:09]

wagnerrp:

eew....

[20:48:13]

wagnerrp:

well... its only going to pull once

[20:48:27]

wagnerrp:

and youve got a lot more to be concerned with the 1920x1080 coverart

[20:48:32]

stickyboy:

I renamed about 60 media files just now btw (using a combination of sed, rename, and bash)... now they've all been recognized.

[20:48:53]

stickyboy:

wagnerrp: In Kenya we don't have ADSL or Cable. :\

[20:49:53]

wagnerrp:

so i guess crak is not coming back?

[20:50:24]

stickyboy:

Does the metadata grabber ever run automatically? I saw some posters where I hadn't asked it to fetch them.

[20:50:25]

stickyboy:

crak?

[20:50:53]

wagnerrp:

guy was talking about some screwy network configuration, wired for IPTV, wireless for the rest of the network

[20:51:02]

wagnerrp:

left right before you joined, about an hour ago, with 'brb'

[20:51:15]

wagnerrp:

i had a lengthy message all typed up and ready to send when he returned

[20:51:42]

wagnerrp:

starting in 0.24, there is a bulk downloader that you can access through the 'm' menu

[20:51:49]

wagnerrp:

it will run once per video

[20:51:56]

wagnerrp:

after which videos will be flagged as processed

[20:52:09]

wagnerrp:

and subsequent runs of the downloader will skip over them

[20:52:28]

wagnerrp:

there is also an option to have it automatically run when you hit 'scan for content'

[20:52:34]

stickyboy:

re: crak. Gotcha.

[20:52:53]

stickyboy:

wagnerrp: "Scan for changes"?

[20:53:05]

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[20:53:18]

wagnerrp:

yes, mythtv works off a snapshot of the filesystem stored in the database, not the filesystem itself

[20:53:32]

wagnerrp:

m -> 'scan for changes' tells it to refresh that snapshot

[20:53:40]

wagnerrp:

you had to have done it to get any content into mythvideo

[20:54:10]

stickyboy:

wagnerrp: Right, I was simply confirming if you meant "scan for changes"

[20:54:11]

stickyboy:

:)

[20:54:33]

wagnerrp:

erm, changes, right

[20:55:08]

stickyboy:

What kinda box do you run your MythTV on?

[20:55:15]

stickyboy:

Atom? Core i3? i7? ;)

[20:55:15]

wagnerrp:

multiple

[20:55:23]

stickyboy:

I knew you'd say that, hehe.

[20:56:44]

wagnerrp:

Phenom II X2 freebsd master backend, athlon II X2 gentoo combo frontend/backend, athlon 939 dedicated frontend, athlon X2 939 dedicated frontend

[20:57:34]

sphery:

and here I thought you were an Intel guy

[20:57:56]

sphery:

Guess value proposition came into play for you rather than just name :)

[20:58:03]

wagnerrp:

ive got a core2duo on my desktop, and p3 on my laptop

[20:58:38]

stickyboy:

wagnerrp: Cool setup. Got a nice network too I'm assuming?

[20:58:48]

sphery:

yeah, so you choose based on availability/value/requirements/... rather than just based on a brand name

[20:59:15]

wagnerrp:

niceish, pair of POS 8-port netgear gigabit switches

[20:59:50]

stickyboy:

wagnerrp: Hopefully you don't live alone... or do you have media stations in, like, your bathroom?

[21:00:00]

wagnerrp:

the 939s were purchased because intel hardware sucked at that time

[21:00:02]

stickyboy:

That's a gnarly setup for one person!

[21:00:20]

wagnerrp:

the ath2 was purchased for inexpensive dual core system with nvidia video

[21:00:49]

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[21:01:01]

wagnerrp:

the phenom2 was on sale at microcenter, came with cheap onboard video, and i was fed up and wanted to replace one of those 939 systems now, rather than waiting several days for a better deal online

[21:01:48]

wagnerrp:

stickyboy: the phenom is a multi-purpose fileserver, two of the frontends sit on two different tvs in two living rooms, the third is a test box

[21:01:53]

wagnerrp:

three people in the house

[21:01:59]

wagnerrp:

about a dozen computers

[21:03:52]

wagnerrp:

actually... server, firewall, two desktops, three mythtv boxes, three laptops, three unused-but-built spare desktops, parts for a couple more in the closet... say nine in frequent use, fourteen ready for use

[21:04:13]

wagnerrp:

plus three more if you want to consider a PS3 and two WAPs to be computers

[21:05:11]

stickyboy:

Cool. Sounds like you're having fun.

[21:05:48]

stickyboy:

I'll play more with MythTV tomorrow. Pretty late here in GMT+3 and I have work early.

[21:05:55]

stickyboy:

Adios, muchachos. Thanks for the tips.

[21:06:21]

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[21:14:40]

wagnerrp:

HAHAHA

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[21:15:02]

wagnerrp:

apparently there is a Magic Hat Brewery that puts random quips on their bottle caps

[21:15:10]

wagnerrp:

one of them is 'condoms prevent minivans'

[21:28:36]

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[21:47:47]

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[21:48:28]

stf:

is there a way to make myth compatible with mediaportal?

[21:48:43]

wagnerrp:

likely not

[21:49:05]

skd5aner:

ah, there it is – http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-fireho . . . /001761.html – so, you can go ahead and release 0.25 now so I can start using this :)

[21:52:39]

sphery:

skd5aner: as soon as you create the UI for specifying it, we'll do that :)

[21:53:09]

skd5aner:

screw that – phpMyAdmin ftw;)

[21:54:14]

sphery:

:)

[21:57:33]

skd5aner:

all I know is right now my HDPVR is dead in the water because no existing scientific atlantic script works :/

[21:57:46]

skd5aner:

and I don't have a blaster laying around

[21:58:02]

skd5aner:

I'm curious if the built in one will even work or not

[21:59:48]

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[21:59:56]

LTHorn:

for a backend machine with a infinitv 4 in it.. would an am2 2.2ghz dc be enough horsepower?

[22:00:25]

wagnerrp:

yes... they made AM2 chips that slow?

[22:00:39]

wagnerrp:

one of the 'e' line?

[22:01:04]

LTHorn:

It's just an old one

[22:01:13]

LTHorn:

It's a 4000

[22:02:00]

wagnerrp:

i didnt realize AMD was still using that old PR numbering when they switched to AM2

[22:02:10]

wagnerrp:

i thought those were all 754/939 chips

[22:03:04]

LTHorn:

It's the old x2 series

[22:03:26]

LTHorn:

they made em in am2s for awhile

[22:04:16]

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[22:08:55]

LTHorn:

so the backend doesn't really take a lot of power. The even recording 4 hd shows at the same time

[22:09:28]

wagnerrp:

digital recordings take nearly no power

[22:09:36]

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[22:09:40]

wagnerrp:

commflagging does, but can be done in batch at a later time

[22:09:42]

LTHorn:

excellent

[22:09:46]

wagnerrp:

the real problem is the scheduler

[22:09:53]

wagnerrp:

which needs to complete within a reasonable amount of time

[22:10:12]

wagnerrp:

and with a large cable lineup with several tuners, and a bunch of recording rules, its something you may have to watch for

[22:10:23]

LTHorn:

ok

[22:10:49]

k-man:

how much cpu power do I need in a FE in order to play HD content without issue?

[22:10:51]

LTHorn:

If it gets to be a problem then I can deal with it then

[22:11:26]

wagnerrp:

k-man: depends entirely on the hd content

[22:11:43]

wagnerrp:

theres no single definition for hd content

[22:12:34]

k-man:

wagnerrp, ok, let me rephrase, how much cpu do I need to play any worst case scenario HD content?

[22:13:05]

sphery:

can a cpu play 4K stuff? :)

[22:13:15]

wagnerrp:

worst case would be full bitrate bluray

[22:13:35]

wagnerrp:

which means AthII or i3 dual core near 3GHz

[22:13:45]

wagnerrp:

or any quad core

[22:14:51]

k-man:

wagnerrp, mythtv now makes use of multi cores for playback?

[22:14:52]

sphery:

so my Ath II 250 @ 3GHz might actually be able to do that?

[22:15:00]

wagnerrp:

likely

[22:15:03]

sphery:

wow

[22:15:19]

k-man:

wagnerrp, anyway, thanks for the info

[22:16:24]

LTHorn:

I'll need more than a gig of ram tho

[22:17:03]

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[22:37:46]

wagnerrp:

seems the steampunk movement is officially dead, after being joined by justin beiber

[22:40:44]

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[22:41:53]

skd5aner:

sphery: ping – around (and willing) to talk about https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/4f5c3e64a ?

[22:42:49]

joemyth:

Boneshaker killed steampunk

[22:47:16]

joemyth:

does anyone use noatime on the FS used to record to?

[22:47:54]

wagnerrp:

its generally good practice to use noatime all over the place

[22:48:04]

wagnerrp:

unless you actually need know know when files were last accessed

[22:48:21]

wagnerrp:

with noatime, certain things can run completely off the memory cache

[22:48:38]

wagnerrp:

without it, every access requires the disk be spun up so the metadata can be updated

[22:49:43]

joemyth:

i'm trying to think if theres any reason ill ever need that, but ur probably right.. whats the point

[22:50:14]

joemyth:

I have / mounted on SSD, and writes shorten its lifespan I think

[22:53:15]

jm|laptop:

yeah but you bought that thing to _use_ right?

[22:53:37]

wagnerrp:

joemyth: how large is this SSD?

[22:53:43]

joemyth:

i dunno what i bought it for.. I thought it would speed up playback but it does nothing

[22:54:00]

joemyth:

I have a 120gb SSD

[22:54:14]

wagnerrp:

MLC?

[22:54:44]

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[22:56:02]

joemyth:

yeah MLC

[22:57:02]

joemyth:

sagetv has a noticable lag when youre playing recordings over the network so I thought it might help, but it didnt make a bit of difference

[22:58:18]

sphery:

skd5aner: am now

[22:58:24]

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[22:59:06]

joemyth:

i moved a windows VM from a 5k/rpm drive to ssd and it boots faster, so that's something.. though I turn it on, like, twice a month

[22:59:12]

cloudy_qam:

Anyone else running a backend on VMWare ESX

[22:59:44]

wagnerrp:

dont

[22:59:51]

joemyth:

kvm ftw

[23:00:08]

wagnerrp:

joemyth: MLC SSDs are generally good for 5–10k writes per cell

[23:00:34]

wagnerrp:

with good load leveling, youll burn through most of the disk before any start hitting their hard set write limit

[23:00:48]

skd5aner:

sphery: cool – just wanted to see how to sum that up for the release notes – basically, I "understand" the intent, but how does it impact existing users? Do they have to remap anything manually? Will it only impact mythcenter-wide, etc?

[23:01:06]

wagnerrp:

if all youre doing is myth's limited database IO, logging, and assorted metadata updates... that SSD should last for several years

[23:01:12]

skd5aner:

sphery: well, feel free to go ahead and answer... I've got to step away for a little bit as dinner's being served

[23:01:35]

sphery:

skd5aner: no remapping necessary, affects any theme in which theme specifies action overrides

[23:01:38]

wagnerrp:

recall, each cell is going to be maybe 16–64KB

[23:01:56]

sphery:

so, basically, any themer can map any action to any key they want, and it overrides the user-specified mapping

[23:02:07]

wagnerrp:

so youve got tens of trillions to wear out

[23:02:10]

sphery:

i.e. Enter = DELETE and fun stuff like that

[23:02:32]

wagnerrp:

joemyth: just try to keep it relatively not-full

[23:03:01]

joemyth:

wagnerrp: definitely keep the recordings off of it

[23:03:35]

wagnerrp:

oh yes, at 120GB certainly

[23:03:38]

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[23:04:01]

wagnerrp:

not because of write loads, just because there is so little space there

[23:04:23]

wagnerrp:

you would want to run some script nightly to flush that content off to another (or several) disk

[23:05:35]

joemyth:

it is definitely worth it for the boot time though

[23:06:06]

sphery:

skd5aner: note, also, that https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/fa8b6ee38 is the one that's related to my commit (it basically undid my change--put it back to where we were, but in a way where you can use up/down on a vertically-laid-out theme)

[23:06:29]

joemyth:

it misses about 11 pings when I reboot it (and once you can ping it, you can ssh into it)

[23:06:48]

sphery:

meaning it still only works automatically in some places in the code... doesn't work at all in some places in the code... some themes change how keys work in random places

[23:07:07]

sphery:

so, it's actually worse than it was, IMHO

[23:09:17]

wagnerrp:

joemyth: well thats subjective... i miss about 4 pings before i boot, over the network, from rotating storage

[23:10:01]

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[23:10:27]

wagnerrp:

the only time i shut down is to update, all other times i just use suspend

[23:10:28]

joemyth:

wagnerrp: it takes you 4 seconds to reboot?

[23:10:48]

wagnerrp:

3–5 seconds from suspend to fully functional

[23:11:11]

joemyth:

what motherboard do you use?

[23:11:54]

wagnerrp:

i dont actually have it set up currently, but when i previously used it on one of my dedicated frontends, it was a DFI Infinity 939

[23:12:16]

wagnerrp:

WOL and WOUSB (for my ir), plus iscsi boot

[23:12:44]

joemyth:

what does this show – /usr/sbin/dmidecode |egrep -i "manuf|vend|produc"

[23:13:01]

joemyth:

i thought i had a fast bios..

[23:13:12]

wagnerrp:

suspend... not reboot...

[23:13:25]

wagnerrp:

i.e. that <5W near-shutdown mode

[23:13:25]

joemyth:

same diff, no?

[23:13:32]

wagnerrp:

not in the least

[23:13:55]

joemyth:

it takes my dvr like 2 seconds max to reboot to bios

[23:13:56]

wagnerrp:

suspend basically shuts down the processor, and drastically drops the refresh rate on the memory

[23:14:24]

wagnerrp:

everything that cant run on 5VSB is turned off

[23:14:41]

wagnerrp:

leaving USB, PS2, RTC timers, and limited network

[23:14:50]

joemyth:

oh you dont go back into bios then

[23:14:53]

wagnerrp:

no

[23:14:59]

joemyth:

oh sry i misunderstood

[23:15:19]

wagnerrp:

~5W vs. ~1W, why bother actually shutting down

[23:15:46]

joemyth:

captain planet would approve

[23:16:24]

wagnerrp:

it also means youre a lot more willing to use standby, because you dont have to go through the 1+minute hassle of shutting down, and subsequently starting back up

[23:17:24]

joemyth:

what capture device do you use?

[23:18:18]

joemyth:

my hdpvr has me rebooting at least once a month

[23:18:22]

wagnerrp:

HDHomeRun, PVR-1250, 2xPVR-150

[23:19:22]

joemyth:

pvr150, blast from the past

[23:22:37]

joemyth:

do you still record on it?

[23:23:22]

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[23:41:06]

jams:

i record on my 2 pvr-500 every day

[23:41:26]

jams:

the 150 every once i a while

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