Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, December 8th, 2011, 00:01 UTC

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Beirdo:

yawn

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Beirdo:

dangit, it's only 4:30?

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kormoc:

It's too dark to be 4:30

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kormoc:

unless it's 4:30 am

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Beirdo:

it is, isn't it?

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Beirdo:

welcome to winter, I guess

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Beirdo:

or nearly winter

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Beirdo:

2 more weeks until the shortest day of the year

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Beirdo:

(and my birthday, coincidentally... which I intend to spend sleeping)

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sphery:

Beirdo: so you have the shortest birthday of the year?

[00:46:47]

sphery:

guess that means you have the longest birthnight of the year, though

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Beirdo:

yup

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Beirdo:

more sleep for me!

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sphery:

hehe

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[02:39:25]

sutula:

Question regarding re-recording: I've had some storage issues and may lose a bunch of recordings. The database still thinks they're there. AFAICT, if I delete each recording (using e.g. mythweb) with the "allow rerecord", then myth will remember the recording (somewhere) and will look for another opportunity to record it again, which is what I want. Is there a way to do the same thing, programmatically, for hundreds of recordings, once I

[02:39:25]

sutula:

get a list of the recordings I lost?

[02:40:27]

[R]:

how do you think mythweb does ti to begin with... magic? if it can do it... you can do it

[02:40:38]

sutula:

I have a superficial familiarity with the myth DB, including the "recorded" table, and can write scripts to query it.

[02:40:53]

kormoc:

sutula, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Find_orphans.py

[02:41:18]

sutula:

kormoc: thanks, that'll be a good start

[02:41:40]

kormoc:

sutula, it should do exactly what you want (I believe)

[02:42:04]

wagnerrp:

yeah, it marks things for re-recording when it deletes them

[02:42:20]

wagnerrp:

assuming the recording rules are still there in the first place to match against

[02:42:45]

wagnerrp:

sutula: both mythweb and find_orphans only tells mythtv the old record is not eligible for duplicate matching

[02:44:21]

** sutula is trying to wrap his mind around what wagnerrp said **

[02:44:51]

sutula:

wagnerrp: So when myth records something, the recording rules generally stick around and it's the duplicate match that keeps it from recording it again?

[02:44:59]

wagnerrp:

mythtv only records whatever you recording rules tell it to

[02:45:16]

wagnerrp:

it stores a record of each thing it has recorded in the past, so it knows not to record it a second time

[02:45:41]

wagnerrp:

when you delete with 'allow re-record', it tells it to ignore that record when checking for duplicates

[02:46:03]

wagnerrp:

so if the show comes up again as a match to a recording rule, it will not be skipped as having already been recorded

[02:46:18]

wagnerrp:

that does not mean it will create a new recording rule to specifically match that show

[02:46:44]

sutula:

wagnerrp: which tables are involved in the above...staring at them will help my understanding and let me know what rules I still have in place

[02:47:10]

wagnerrp:

http://<your backend>/mythweb/tv/schedules/

[02:50:04]

sutula:

wagnerrp: Right, the regular recordings are there. When I pick a movie out of an upcoming listing and say "record one showing", it seems that those get deleted from that list once they are recorded.

[02:50:15]

kormoc:

sutula, they are

[02:50:24]

kormoc:

(or rather, 24 hours later)

[02:51:03]

sutula:

So I'd need to collect whatever info is needed from the recorded table and insert it into that table, before I delete the recording.

[03:11:28]

sphery:

sutula: they're saying that when non-recurring recording rules succeeded in recording the show you specified, the recording rule was deleted

[03:12:09]

sphery:

sutula: so you need to collect the list of names of shows that relate to orphaned recording metadata (the shows whose recording files you lost)

[03:12:18]

sphery:

and, IIRC, that list is printed out by find_orphans.py

[03:13:27]

sphery:

ah, maybe not

[03:13:35]

sphery:

oh, wait, it is...

[03:13:45]

sphery:

sutula: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Find_orphans.py , first section...

[03:13:56]

sphery:

Recordings with missing files \ Undercovers – Devices 4642_20101006201300.mpg

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sphery:

which says, "You lost the show 'Undercovers' episode 'Devixes'"

[03:14:43]

sphery:

so just copy the output of find orphans into a file and then use that to make new rules for those that no longer exist

[03:16:46]

sutula:

sphery: That's what it seems I need to do, so I need to understand how the "record" table works and put records into it

[03:17:21]

sphery:

sutula: it works by your going into mythfrontend or MythWeb and finding the shows to record and creating a recording rule :)

[03:17:53]

sutula:

Right...I guess I can put a dummy show in and copy the fields from that record for anything I don't understand.

[03:17:56]

sphery:

or, if the show doesn't exist in current listings (such as for a movie), you can use a Search rule to find by title or create a custom rule

[03:18:03]

sphery:

no, don't edit the DB directly

[03:18:06]

sphery:

just use the UI

[03:18:13]

sphery:

there's more to a rule than just a few fields in a table

[03:18:41]

sutula:

sphery: That's what I need to understand, since I have hundreds of these to do...too many to do by hand

[03:19:15]

sphery:

well, let me just say that if you create hundreds of recording rules, your system will likely die, anyway

[03:19:42]

sutula:

My current table has 105 records :)

[03:19:44]

sphery:

I'm guessing if you were to pastebin the list of shows that are missing, the majority of them would be episodes of a few seried?

[03:19:54]

sphery:

yeah, around 100 isn't too bad

[03:20:06]

sphery:

300 or 500 and your scheduling times will be awful

[03:20:29]

sutula:

We use it mainly to record movies, not shows, and these are movies my wife has picked out over a few years

[03:20:40]

sphery:

generally, what you need to do is clean up the recording metadata, then add new rules as you see new stuff appear on the listings

[03:21:00]

sutula:

She'll be less angry about the loss if I can tell her that they'll be re-recorded when they appear again in the listings :)

[03:21:35]

sutula:

Maybe I

[03:21:35]

sphery:

well, if you're directly poking data into your database, you're on your own

[03:21:56]

sutula:

I thought it was open source...I'm on my own anyway :)

[03:21:59]

sphery:

for the same reason that you don't edit a Word document by directly poking data into the .doc file using a binary editor

[03:22:18]

sutula:

...but thanks...I appreciate the warning

[03:22:41]

sutula:

I'll start by getting a list of what I'm missing, then maybe try doing a dozen search rules to start with

[03:22:58]

sutula:

Maybe over time, I can do the rest in smaller batches

[03:23:06]

sphery:

that would be the best approach

[03:23:16]

sutula:

Thanks, all, for the advice!

[03:23:25]

sphery:

and would mean you don't have to learn things like what starttime and endtime mean for a recording rule for a one-time record

[03:23:39]

sphery:

and other things that aren't obvious just by looking at field names in a database

[03:24:11]

sutula:

Yes, those are the sorts of things that are non-obvious in my few years experience with myth

[03:24:16]

sphery:

(not to mention things like subtitle that isn't subtitle and stuff like that)

[03:24:54]

sphery:

anyway, definitely keep the list of shows that find_orphans says you're missing... will make it easier to create the rules

[03:25:12]

sphery:

should be able to do it easily enough with search rules (and I think even mythweb supports search rules)

[03:25:23]

sutula:

it does

[03:25:37]

sphery:

yeah, under "Custom" recording schedules

[03:26:40]

sphery:

so that should make creating them much easier than using mythfrontend and a remote :)

[03:26:51]

** sutula doesn't suppose there are any good books or documentation for how myth works "under the hood"? **

[03:28:19]

[R]:

the source

[03:28:51]

sutula:

[R]: The best documentation, as always

[03:29:48]

sutula:

I need to spend a day figuring out where it's all installed, what inherits from what, etc. It's hard to do a task like this without a good understanding of where to look.

[03:30:50]

sutula:

As sphery points out, even when you find the code, it's not always obvious how different data is interpreted across the whole body of code.

[03:36:08]

sphery:

yeah, only reason the source is the best documentation is because it's the only documentation

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Captain_Murdoch:

we also have the (partially complete) doxygen docs

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sphery:

yeah, I should say "only complete documentation"

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Beirdo:

why do I smell cigarette smoke?

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wagnerrp:

ugh... lousy steam

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wagnerrp:

some application required directx to be installed, nevermind the dozen times ive installed it before

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wagnerrp:

and it wouldnt work while not being run as administrator

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[10:33:16]

Russ__:

I'm trying to change the background image that appears for a series when using mythvideo. Do I change the fanart, banner, or cover art, and which episode do I change?

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[10:35:29]

justinh:

fanart is the background image

[10:36:51]

Russ:

ok, next question, I'm using mythbuntu, and I get ellipsis way too early on a lot of fields

[10:37:02]

Russ:

(the mythbuntu theme, not the distro)

[10:37:12]

justinh:

then use a different theme :-)

[10:37:25]

Russ:

easy solution I suppose

[10:37:30]

justinh:

it doesn't use space very efficiently IMHO

[10:37:59]

justinh:

though it might not be operating as intended – if you're running at too low a resolution or at an incorrect aspect ratio

[10:40:51]

Russ:

hmm, changing it to 1600x900 help a little, but not much

[10:41:02]

Russ:

I had it at the bizzare resolution of 1575x950 before

[10:41:46]

justinh:

what's the native resolution of your display? Use that

[10:42:13]

justinh:

if I had a HD display I'd likely just use Arclight & have done with it

[10:42:23]

justinh:

it's easily the best theme out there

[10:42:35]

Russ:

this is the frontend for my computer, I'd like to have it in a window

[10:42:47]

Russ:

the displays are 1920x1200

[10:42:53]

justinh:

definitely don't use the mythbuntu theme then. the text is way too big

[10:43:18]

Russ:

There looks like there should be plenty of room for the text, it just doesn't use the room

[10:43:44]

justinh:

exactly

[10:44:12]

Russ:

crazy mythbuntu I suppose

[10:44:37]

Russ:

arclight just looks so ugly to me, but I'll try it for a while

[10:45:08]

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[10:45:44]

justinh:

ugly? lol...

[10:45:52]

justinh:

no accounting for taste

[10:46:03]

Russ:

hmm...when I try to change the fanart on this other one, it seg faults

[10:46:03]

justinh:

maybe we should have all been stuck with GANT

[10:46:14]

Russ:

I hate how it isn't clear when you scroll through things

[10:46:33]

justinh:

ruh? mythbuntu was based on projectgrayhem? ouch

[10:46:40]

justinh:

isn't clear?

[10:46:54]

justinh:

isn't clear? are you sure you're talking about Arclight? lol

[10:47:09]

justinh:

it's immediately apparent which item is selected

[10:47:12]

Russ:

ya, the one with the crazy color giant pixel background

[10:47:31]

Russ:

but scrolling doesn't visually provide much feedback other than everything getting renamed suddenly

[10:48:28]

justinh:

and yet mythbuntu makes it so that the selected item is much bigger than the others. looks weird

[10:48:53]

justinh:

oh wait that's only in the menus

[10:49:04]

justinh:

god, I see what you mean about mythbuntu cutting down textareas

[10:49:06]

Russ:

http://pastebin.com/U2gfZsZc :(

[10:49:25]

Russ:

justinh, I think they want you to just watch shows with short names

[10:49:34]

justinh:

show names are ok

[10:49:42]

justinh:

channel names.. eek

[10:49:48]

justinh:

and descriptions

[10:49:57]

justinh:

way too much space is devoted to the preview IMHO

[10:50:15]

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[10:50:50]

justinh:

and the breadcrumb view in mythvideo... oh dear

[10:51:04]

justinh:

wouldn't take much to fix them – but who would you send fixes to?

[10:51:31]

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[10:51:43]

justinh:

and the radii of all the rounded rectangles should be the same for consistency IMHO

[10:51:45]

Russ:

I dunno, it segfaulting when I select this as fanart is what is bugging me

[10:51:47]

Russ:

http://www.superbwallpapers.com/wallpapers/an . . . 920x1080.jpg

[10:52:06]

justinh:

ugh. anime. I can't stand to look at anime

[10:52:25]

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[10:52:26]

justinh:

the stylised eyes make me want to kill people

[10:52:39]

Russ:

maybe mythhtv is thinking the same thing

[10:53:50]

Russ:

interesting

[10:53:55]

Russ:

it is the filename that is crashing it

[11:01:17]

Scopeuk-AFK is now known as Scopeuk

[11:02:51]

justinh:

rename the file then :-)

[11:04:40]

Russ:

seems like at best a remote DoS (provide information for a search that returns a file name that crashes mythfrontend)

[11:04:45]

Russ:

at worst remote code execution

[11:05:02]

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[11:06:19]

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[11:07:57]

Russ:

ok, next question. I have two "The Ten Commandments" movies

[11:08:08]

Russ:

I put the year in paren's after the end to tell them apart

[11:08:32]

Russ:

mythtv ignores that and I have to use "retreive metadata" too lookup the info

[11:08:33]

justinh:

that isn't supported

[11:08:48]

Russ:

when I do, it gives me about 6 "The Ten Commandments" choices, all the same

[11:08:50]

justinh:

you could populate the year field yourself instead

[11:09:03]

justinh:

that ought to tell them apart

[11:09:13]

Russ:

imdb has the data for both

[11:09:16]

Russ:

so that's what I want

[11:09:23]

wagnerrp:

we dont pull data from imdb

[11:09:31]

justinh:

tmdb, not imdb

[11:09:32]

Russ:

tmdb, whatever its pulling from

[11:09:52]

Russ:

anyway, I have to choose a choice, and if its wrong, reset video details, retreive video details, and try the next one

[11:09:58]

Russ:

is there an easier way?

[11:10:30]

justinh:

edit the year field

[11:10:41]

Russ:

yes, but that doesn't give me plot info

[11:10:42]

justinh:

change the title so it's only the title, and add the year to the year field

[11:10:57]

wagnerrp:

i dont believe year is taken into account as part of the decision process

[11:11:05]

justinh:

no? ouch. Oh well

[11:11:30]

wagnerrp:

the year can be returned for manual selection

[11:11:32]

Russ:

It would be really handy if the list returned with "retreive details" would put the year in the list

[11:11:41]

wagnerrp:

but its up to the theme to decide which data to display

[11:11:49]

Russ:

oh, mythbuntu again

[11:11:56]

justinh:

another mythbuntu failing :-)

[11:12:14]

justinh:

I should maybe get my finger out & get 'Concept' ready for release

[11:12:21]

Russ:

wagnerrp, did you see the part about selecting a file named "serial-experiments-lain-5984–1920x1080.jpg" as fanart crashes mythvideo?

[11:12:34]

wagnerrp:

dont know why that would crash mythvideo

[11:12:38]

justinh:

does the file exist?

[11:12:44]

Russ:

yes

[11:12:49]

wagnerrp:

from the backtrace, seems the segfault comes from the ui libraries, not mythvideo

[11:13:12]

justinh:

could be the theme at fault again

[11:13:22]

justinh:

maybe your theme is out of date

[11:13:34]

wagnerrp:

theme shouldnt be able to cause a crash

[11:15:03]

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[11:16:17]

Russ:

ok, its not selecting that as fanart, its selecting it as banner

[11:17:59]

Russ:

using a know working jpeg as content causes it to crash

[11:18:20]

Russ:

try it, cp <working jpg> serial-experiments-lain-5984–1920x1080.jpg, and select it as banner

[11:19:12]

wagnerrp:

well it should not crash, but something of that aspect ratio should not be used as a banner

[11:19:30]

wagnerrp:

youre looking for something more on the order of 5:1 or so

[11:20:40]

Russ:

I just tried something that actually is a banner, same result

[11:22:36]

Russ:

heheh

[11:22:47]

Russ:

if the first letter of a banner is lowercase, it crashes

[11:23:14]

Russ:

hmm...a.jpg doesn't crash

[11:23:38]

Russ:

s.jpg doesn't

[11:24:21]

Russ:

serial-.jpg doesn't

[11:26:31]

Russ:

...it went away

[11:30:51]

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[11:55:22]

pheld:

My provider is reorganising channels on the satellite, and a rescan generates tons of duplicates. Is it enough to clear the "dtv_multiplex" and "channel" tables before scan to start over, or is there some history recorded elsewhere?

[11:55:46]

justinh:

don't mangle the database yourself

[11:56:12]

justinh:

the results of the last successful scan are stored in another table anyway

[11:56:39]

justinh:

why can't providers just leave things where they are anyway? Muppets

[11:58:00]

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[11:58:01]

pheld:

there must be a way to start over without reinstalling. reorganisation of satellite transponders is a fact we'll have to live with considering how efficient it can be to make the most out of the number of available tuners in a system

[11:59:32]

justinh:

so just go into mythtv-setup, select transports & remove them

[11:59:42]

justinh:

or remove all of them on a video source

[11:59:59]

justinh:

but then you run into nasties like having to reconfigure xmltv settings etc

[12:00:24]

justinh:

there's no real easy way to deal with digital TV restructuring

[12:01:17]

pheld:

no manual edit of the db is utiopia. Even if I do that I'd still have to manually create an initial "seed-entry" in dtv_multiplex to get the scan going.

[12:03:16]

pheld:

then there's fixing of icons, disabling of the 90% of found channels which are of no interest, etc which a much more efficient to handle in a db-browser than in mythsetup

[12:03:42]

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[12:04:07]

justinh:

you may aswell just write your own scanner app then

[12:04:17]

justinh:

insert the channels, icons etc yourself

[12:05:43]

pheld:

xmltv-settings? I've never done anything with that as all program-info is picked up automatically from DVB-S

[12:06:11]

justinh:

not if you want decent EPG data, generally

[12:06:23]

justinh:

like more than 7 days, starred movie reviews etc

[12:07:02]

pheld:

there's no decent external source for my provider. so why bother.

[12:07:28]

justinh:

heh that swings it for you then

[12:07:41]

pheld:

I get 14 days with quite decent last-minute corrections in DVB-S

[12:07:58]

justinh:

not UK then :-)

[12:08:18]

justinh:

people get 7 days' worth at best – and 2 line descriptions of shows

[12:10:01]

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[12:10:35]

pheld:

I'm in Norway. things could be better here too, but pressuring the provider to improve their data is the way to go. Their tuners rely on the same data.

[12:18:07]

pheld:

I've located multiplex and channel data from old scans in "channelscan", "channelscan_channel", and "channelscan_dtv_multiplex", so those should also be zapped to start over?

[12:29:59]

ServerSage:

So I use MythFrontend on a MacMini in OSX. Works just ducky, only the apple remote sucks donkey balls with it's limited number of buttons. I see lirc is available in macports. Is this a road worth going down? Or should I just suffer with the shit apple remote?

[12:31:10]

ServerSage:

Doh, never mind. I see now that it's a slave only. Bummer.

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[13:14:19]

justinh:

Channel Five+1 ... WHY?!

[13:19:22]

wagnerrp:

surely 5_1 is more sensible

[13:21:11]

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[13:21:46]

justinh:

oh, if only terrestrial TV had surround

[13:22:07]

** wagnerrp gets surround sound on his terrestrial tv **

[13:23:30]

justinh:

yeah, the nation which *invented* television (some say, I say not)... and we get HD last, are stuck with stereo for godknows how long...

[13:23:35]

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[13:23:46]

justinh:

we invented lame, fuzzy *mechanical* television here

[13:24:27]

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[13:28:19]

wagnerrp:

mechanical.... like hand crank?

[13:29:12]

justinh:

heh not quite

[13:29:19]

justinh:

electro-mechanical

[13:31:16]

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[13:36:08]

wagnerrp:

as in, mechanical scanning on the tube?

[13:37:53]

justinh:

yeah as I remember it

[13:38:10]

justinh:

and mechanical scanning of the subject with a photocell

[13:55:46]

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quicksilver:

ServerSage: your macmini will support a bluetooth remote which will pretend to be a keyboard, as far as I know.

[14:47:26]

quicksilver:

ServerSage: it *might* even work with a bluetooth remote designed for the PS3 which you can buy pretty cheaply, but check before buying,...

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[16:08:21]

skd5aner:

haha – mythbusters misfired a cannonball that ended up going through a residential neighborhood... crazy

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[17:16:43]

Amnesia:

question, I'm trying to get my dvb-t stick to work..

[17:16:47]

Amnesia:

but I can't get a device file of it..

[17:16:52]

sphery:

Amnesia: no problem... likely just a bout of forgetfulness :)

[17:16:53]

Amnesia:

already looked for a usefull kernel module

[17:17:01]

Amnesia:

sphery: heh

[17:17:41]

sphery:

so you don't get /dev/dvb/frontend* ?

[17:17:43]

Amnesia:

ID 1b80:d393 Afatech DVB-T receiver [RTL2832U]

[17:17:45]

Amnesia:

nope

[17:17:49]

sphery:

is it listed at:

[17:17:51]

sphery:

!url tuners

[17:17:51]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[17:18:21]

sphery:

wonder if I can do that in one line... Is it listed at !url tuners ?

[17:18:22]

Amnesia:

yes it is

[17:18:28]

Amnesia:

but I can't get that source compiled..

[17:18:29]

sphery:

guess I can't... :)

[17:18:33]

sphery:

which one is it?

[17:19:10]

Amnesia:

TwinTech Twintech-UT-30 apparantly

[17:19:24]

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[17:19:48]

Amnesia:

[ 811.016607] dvb_usb_rtl2832u: Unknown symbol dvb_usb_device_init (err 0)

[17:19:56]

Amnesia:

might need some other module ..

[17:20:38]

sphery:

hmmm... that's a weird one

[17:20:54]

sphery:

seems someone is suggesting that you just unzip some driver

[17:21:03]

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[17:21:04]

sphery:

which is unusual becase a) generally drivers are version specific

[17:21:24]

sphery:

(unless you tell your kernel to allow wrong-versioned drivers, which seems kind of crazy to me)

[17:21:40]

wagnerrp:

Amnesia: is the driver listed as part of the kernel yet?

[17:21:44]

sphery:

and b) even if you do allow wrong-versioned drivers, you will often end up with symbol errors... like you did :)

[17:21:58]

Amnesia:

FATAL: Error inserting dvb_usb_rtl2832u (/lib/modules/2.6.35.14-Candycase/kernel/drivers/media/dvb/dvb-usb-rtl2832u.ko): Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)

[17:21:59]

wagnerrp:

usually, drivers make it into the kernel within two releases of when they are written

[17:22:04]

Amnesia:

wagnerrp: nope not yet

[17:22:05]

sphery:

meaning that the driver you're using was built for a different kernel version that had different functions available

[17:22:09]

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[17:22:13]

Amnesia:

the kerne does recognize it's a realtek though

[17:22:25]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices "TwinTech Twintech-UT-30"

[17:22:26]

Amnesia:

I

[17:22:35]

Amnesia:

I'm not trying precompiled modu;les:)

[17:22:49]

sphery:

yeah, lsusb would recognize whatever the item reports

[17:23:00]

sphery:

that doesn't mean you have drivers, though

[17:23:30]

sphery:

so, which drivers are you using?

[17:23:33]

sphery:

not the Zazz one

[17:24:05]

Amnesia:

I tried several

[17:24:14]

Amnesia:

I indeed also tried the Zazz one..

[17:24:27]

Amnesia:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11427924&postcount=42 that one

[17:24:28]

sphery:

that's the one that gave the unknown symbol error, right?

[17:24:35]

sphery:

(the Zazz one)

[17:24:44]

Amnesia:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1678094&page=4 that one

[17:24:46]

Amnesia:

nope

[17:24:55]

Amnesia:

thats the one I got through the dropbox url

[17:25:07]

_Anomaly:

Hi Amnesia

[17:25:13]

Amnesia:

ohai

[17:25:13]

_Anomaly:

who are you again?

[17:25:17]

_Anomaly:

hehehehe

[17:25:19]

Amnesia:

I dunno

[17:25:32]

_Anomaly:

<-----<<<< has a photographic memory

[17:25:37]

_Anomaly:

<-----<<<< is out of film

[17:25:39]

Amnesia:

:)

[17:26:13]

sphery:

Well, I won't be much help... I only know anything (and not much of anything) about the in-kernel drivers

[17:26:22]

Amnesia:

running 2.6.35.14 bw

[17:26:24]

sphery:

good luck with it

[17:26:36]

Amnesia:

hm thx

[17:26:47]

sphery:

(and note that it may be much "cheaper"--when factoring in time--to just get a different, supported stick)

[17:27:48]

Amnesia:

hm got this one for free from my boss:)

[17:29:56]

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[17:34:14]

sphery:

hehe, well, maybe you can find a windows user who has one that works on Linux and trade with him :)

[17:34:28]

sphery:

(as I'm sure that one works fine on Windows)

[17:34:39]

Amnesia:

heh

[17:34:55]

Amnesia:

doesn't everything work on windows? *sarcasm*

[17:37:37]

_Anomaly:

oh yeah.... if yer name is Billy Bob Gates

[17:37:39]

_Anomaly:

:)

[17:38:14]

Amnesia:

hm http://linuxtv.org/hg/~anttip/rtl2831u

[17:42:36]

Amnesia:

ffs

[17:44:40]

Amnesia:

this sucks donkeyballs..

[17:46:35]

sphery:

hehe, the cost of working with free hardware--costs a fortune in time

[17:47:18]

Amnesia:

yeh

[17:47:26]

Amnesia:

realtek seriously sucks

[17:51:42]

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[17:53:35]

Amnesia:

hm fixed

[17:59:44]

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[18:02:57]

Amnesia:

appears it has a shitload of dependencies-.-

[18:04:57]

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[18:05:55]

iamlindoro:

Amnesia: Watch the language in this channel please

[18:07:37]

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[18:08:13]

Amnesia:

will do, sorry

[18:08:50]

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[18:16:11]

Amnesia:

anyone know over here how to use dvb on the command line..?

[18:16:29]

Amnesia:

apparantly I need to make a channels.conf file now in my ~/.mplayer folder

[18:19:10]

sphery:

linuxtv dvb apps

[18:19:18]

sphery:

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/LinuxTV_dvb-apps

[18:19:41]

sphery:

though you won't need those with MythTV

[18:20:02]

sphery:

(but you do need to have a working capture device, so it makes a nice way to test the device before configuring mythtv)

[18:20:10]

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[18:20:39]

Amnesia:

sphery: planning to use mplayer:)

[18:20:50]

Amnesia:

hm think it'd work inside?

[18:21:07]

sphery:

no idea, we only know about mythtv here :)

[18:21:09]

Amnesia:

since the tuning is failing now..

[18:21:12]

Amnesia:

hehe sorry

[18:21:39]

sphery:

(seriously, though, I don't know--haven't ever tried mplayer since I have a much more full-featured solution for TV in MythTV)

[18:22:10]

Amnesia:

mplayer ++

[18:23:23]

Amnesia:

awesome it's working

[18:25:12]

sphery:

ah, OnLive now has an Android app... and doesn't this look like a comfortable way to play "console/PC-quality" games? http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/numb-thum . . . os-app-store

[18:25:49]

joemyth:

is it paranoid if I write a script that runs like a 'who' every minute, and then issues an 'init 0' if it detects a login from an unknown IP?

[18:26:41]

sphery:

hehe, why not just disable logins from unknown ips

[18:26:59]

joemyth:

seems not dramatic enough

[18:27:34]

Amnesia:

hm

[18:28:06]

sphery:

I use fwkop so that my firewall blocks all requests to my machine, but I can then send an encrypted packet that tells the system to open a port on a firewall for a single source IP for 30s (during which time I have plenty of time to make an SSH connection--which I can use for further port forwarding, etc.)

[18:28:19]

sphery:

http://www.cipherdyne.org/fwknop/

[18:28:46]

joemyth:

oh cool

[18:28:51]

joemyth:

thats port knocking right?

[18:29:01]

sphery:

it's technically Single-Packet Authorization

[18:29:14]

sphery:

which is the "becaue port knocking doesn't work" successor to port knocking :)

[18:29:26]

sphery:

lots of good reading on that site for why

[18:31:03]

sphery:

only issue I've had with it is that some hotels tend to use multiple cable connections and do load balancing--meaning that each individual request could be issued on a different IP address... Then, I just figure out which IPs they're using, and send an SPA for each IP address.

[18:31:09]

joemyth:

I was thinking about doing something like that myself, with just a password protected HTTPS URL that runs an iptables rule or something but it just seemed like too much work

[18:32:41]

sphery:

it's also nice because some hotels and such will block all traffic except ports 80 (HTTP) and 443 (HTTPS)... In those cases, I send a packet requesting that the firewall temporarily redirect all port 443 traffic from the specified source IP to port 22--allowing me to make an SSH connection--then after 30s it goes back to using 443 for HTTPS even from the address I'm using (so I can access MythWeb over HTTPS :)

[18:32:59]

sphery:

took me a while to get a MythTV/on-topic comment in, but I finally did it :)

[18:33:11]

joemyth:

:)

[18:33:20]

Amnesia:

hm stuck

[18:33:21]

Amnesia:

:/

[18:33:53]

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[18:33:59]

Amnesia:

can't get any screen:/

[18:34:08]

sphery:

in mythtv?

[18:34:40]

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[18:35:02]

joemyth:

thats actually neat because i have class sundays, and the wifi at univ blocks everything but 80/443.. so I cant stream videos (ssh tunnel) without remembering to change the port before I leave the house

[18:35:22]

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[18:35:25]

sphery:

yeah, much easier if you can do it on an as-needed basis (and temporarily)

[18:36:02]

Amnesia:

sphery: mplayer

[18:36:10]

Amnesia:

probably mythtv uses mplayer:)

[18:36:17]

Amnesia:

not sure though

[18:36:21]

sphery:

the fwknop 2.0 rewrite (currently in rc4) is a complete re-implementation of the app in C, which allows it to be used, for example, on OpenWRT devices, etc.

[18:36:35]

sphery:

MythTV has its own built-in player, so doesn't use mplayer

[18:37:15]

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[18:37:49]

sphery:

we have a ton of changes to support "in-the-wild" video streams seen worldwide--which mplayer is lacking (and, therefore, may have difficulties with some, especially, MPEG-TS, video--such as you'd get from DVB-T)

[18:38:38]

joemyth:

i put in something that looks at logs and notifies me (and blocks) of IP's trying to get in.. its just too many! also I have fwd'ed like 15 to various abuse mailboxes and havent gotten a single reply

[18:39:29]

joemyth:

(abuse mailboxes in the US only – I'm not even trying with all these asian IP's)

[18:40:25]

joemyth:

.TW stands for .TheyWillignoreyou

[18:41:19]

Amnesia:

sphery: ah k

[18:41:27]

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[18:43:05]

sphery:

joemyth: yeah, it's amazing how clean my /var/log/btmp is, now... Since no one out there /can/ attempt to log in, I don't have hundreds of megabytes of bad login attempts

[18:43:41]

sphery:

(i.e. without sending a packet to request access to port 22--with the proper encryption and key--they can't access port 22)

[18:44:12]

joemyth:

wait theres a client for fwknop? like for your phone?

[18:44:43]

sphery:

fwknop is the client... fwknopd is the daemon

[18:45:00]

joemyth:

so you need a computer to run the client?

[18:45:00]

sphery:

fwknop is (currently) a perl script (version 2.0 is a C app)

[18:45:08]

sphery:

but there's a Windows version

[18:45:21]

sphery:

and I wouldn't be surprised if there's now an Android client

[18:45:44]

joemyth:

hmm i dont see one

[18:45:52]

sphery:

the big challenge, though, is that you need to specify the (Internet-facing) IP address to which to open the port

[18:46:03]

joemyth:

i can just wrap it with something in apache probably

[18:46:27]

joemyth:

wrap the client on the server machine, that is

[18:46:48]

sphery:

which typically means using the network to which you want to open it and using something like http://www.whatismyip.org to get the 'net-facing address

[18:46:57]

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[18:47:12]

joemyth:

http://checkip.dyndns.org much easier to parse

[18:47:40]

joemyth:

wait what! .org! beautiful!

[18:48:06]

sphery:

yeah, I have it set up on a friend's system (though he doesn't use it for all connections--just for ones where he needs the port 443 -> port 22 stuff), and I just made a little web interface that he can use to access it

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[18:48:33]

joemyth:

can I, uh, steal that script..?

[18:49:02]

sphery:

http://www.whatismyip.org is the default used by fwknop, but it only allows 7 requests in some time period (which is challenging if things aren't working--such as with hotel multi-IP load balancing)

[18:49:18]

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[18:49:26]

sphery:

so I actually set up my own ip.mydomain script to give me my IP

[18:49:36]

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[18:49:45]

sphery:

actually, http://www.whatismyip.org is definitely easier to parse--since it's only the IP :)

[18:49:52]

sphery:

the script is a hack

[18:50:00]

joemyth:

I'll just put something on one of the web servers at work for the IP..

[18:50:35]

joemyth:

theyre not too strict though.. it only blocks for a minute

[18:50:45]

sphery:

I'd be happy to give you my ip script :)

[18:51:21]

sphery:

http://pastebin.com/uVvJSnY2

[18:52:44]

joemyth:

you know what, we actually have something like that at work.. we've got this pgm that crawls android/apple app stores and it VPN's to locations all around the world (because they present different apps in different locations)

[18:53:18]

iamlindoro:

ToS Viol-riffic

[18:53:33]

joemyth:

so it's constantly checking the external IP (via one of our webservers)

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[18:54:05]

joemyth:

is it really a violation? I think it crawls so slowly it requires 7 days to finish

[18:55:33]

iamlindoro:

I can't strictly say that it's a violation, but most sites of that kind prohibit the automatic crawling/harvesting of their data-- I will say it would surprise me if it wasn't

[18:55:54]

joemyth:

i wouldnt be surprised though.. this is like the shadiest shop i've ever worked at

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[20:04:18]

** Blaksmith sighs ... any easy way to revert a frontend back to a different version? ubuntu's updates insisted on updating mythtv, and is now using 0.25.20111201 .. while the backend is using 0.25.20111116 **

[20:04:34]

Blaksmith:

I don't want to upgrade the back end.. just need to downgrade the frontend

[20:05:01]

Blaksmith:

and the frontend crashes with error 133

[20:06:47]

joemyth:

isnt it something apt-get install pkg=<number_of_version> ?

[20:07:16]

sphery:

Blaksmith: 133 just means your database is out of date (i.e. you need to upgrade the backend to use that frontend version)

[20:07:36]

sphery:

it's not crashing--it's exiting because you have incompatible versions installed

[20:07:45]

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[20:07:56]

sphery:

no idea how to downgrade your installed packages, though

[20:08:10]

sphery:

probably much easier to just upgrade the backend when there's a break between recordings

[20:08:20]

Blaksmith:

sphery, ok, yah, that's what I thought, but I would rather down-grade my frontend, instead of trying to upgrade the backend through gentoo's overlay (backend is a gentoo box)

[20:08:37]

sphery:

after all, you're running unstable/development code, so reliability isn't likely a huge concern

[20:09:11]

sphery:

are you using https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/tree/master/Gentoo for building on your Gentoo box?

[20:09:29]

Blaksmith:

had to use the latest because 0.24 doesn't like kernel 3.1.1, and wouldn't see my card properly, until I put in 0.25 .. so yah.. have to run fairly newish

[20:09:43]

sphery:

wait, 0.24 doesn't like 3.1.1?

[20:09:45]

sphery:

how so?

[20:09:52]

sphery:

we haven't had any reports of issues

[20:09:53]

Blaksmith:

ivtv driver

[20:10:05]

sphery:

so 3.1.1 doesn't like ivtv or?

[20:10:27]

Blaksmith:

actually, not ivtv itself .. but boiled down to the v4l1 vs v4l2 ..

[20:10:29]

sphery:

because we haven't changed the ivtv code in mythtv, so it's unlikely that ivtv's API changed

[20:10:38]

Blaksmith:

the ivtv driver didn't like the fact taht v4l1 was missing out of 3.1.1

[20:11:13]

sphery:

so not a mythtv issue, but an issue with the driver, right?

[20:11:24]

Blaksmith:

correct..

[20:11:34]

Blaksmith:

but, I"m already at 0.25 ... so not going to revert hehe

[20:11:36]

sphery:

ok, just making sure we don't need to fix something for future kernels

[20:11:55]

Blaksmith:

heh ok

[20:12:06]

Blaksmith:

but about the gentoo, yes

[20:12:14]

Blaksmith:

that looks like the git hub version I'm using

[20:12:27]

sphery:

yeah, going back to 0.24-fixes isn't really possible (unless you have an old 0.24-fixes DB backup or start a new DB)--I just wondered if we were going to see reports of problems with our code

[20:12:52]

Blaksmith:

no, it isn't myth itself .. driver issue

[20:12:52]

sphery:

ok, was just checking on the ebuild since, TTBOMK, that's the most current one available

[20:13:10]

sphery:

no idea how to update it to a new revision (but IIRC, it was supposed to be an easy-to-do thing)

[20:13:13]

Blaksmith:

I just didn't want to update the backend .. that's all heh.. probably easier to though

[20:13:44]

joemyth:

is myth ever backwards compatible with older FE's?

[20:14:27]

sphery:

MythTV has a (network) communications protocol version number, a binary (plugin) version number, and a database schema version number

[20:14:28]

Blaksmith:

hehe, trying to find the directory where the overlay is, to run the update lol

[20:14:40]

sphery:

the code only ever supports the current version

[20:14:53]

sphery:

meaning, basically, no :)

[20:15:26]

joemyth:

FE will always terminate if the version is not identical?

[20:15:50]

sphery:

within a stable branch, though, we won't change protocol version, binary version, or schema version without a MythTV version change

[20:17:16]

sphery:

so in general, you can run various revisions within MythTV version 0.24 or 0.24.1 together (and, in the case of 0.24 and 0.24.1, there were no internal version number changes for 0.24.1, so you can actually run any 0.24-fixes revisions together)

[20:17:51]

** Blaksmith sighs .. having a brain fart on where that script is that will nab the latest **

[20:18:00]

sphery:

that said, I just updated 5 machines to the same revision of 0.24-fixes, today... because it's best to use the most-fixed version we have :)

[20:18:22]

joemyth:

but 0.25, being in active dev, has versions changing constantly?

[20:19:06]

skd5aner:

was the v4l1 vs v4l2 stuff fixed in 0.24-fixes like 8 months ago?

[20:19:12]

skd5aner:

s/was/wasn't

[20:19:15]

Blaksmith:

ahh found it

[20:19:54]

sphery:

hehe, ok, I upgraded 4 systems... thanks for helping me notice I forgot to actually run the update on the frontend

[20:19:57]

sphery:

:)

[20:20:13]

Blaksmith:

hrm.. going to have to update the frontend again too.. apparently, 07 is latest on git .. not 01 .. which ubuntu is 01

[20:20:38]

joemyth:

FE updates are pretty minor though i'm assuming

[20:20:56]

skd5aner:

Blaksmith, sphery: # 283 – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24-fixes

[20:21:13]

sphery:

well, the frontend still needs to speak the same protocol version and use the same database version

[20:21:29]

sphery:

but, since I'm using 0.24-fixes, those stay constant

[20:21:48]

joemyth:

yeah, i just mean that installing a new FE is a no brainer right?

[20:21:54]

skd5aner:

Blaksmith: not that it matters at this point, as your DB is already too knew to roll back to 0.24-fixes, but it should work I would believe, at least since the end of may

[20:21:54]

sphery:

(if plugin version changes and you actually install newer mythfrontend without updating plugins, it just means your plugins won't work)

[20:22:15]

skd5aner:

grrr, s/knew/new :P

[20:22:49]

sphery:

well, the way I have it set up, updating all of them is a no brainer (which is why I forgot--brain not engaged--to actually run the update on the frontend... had actually logged in and gotten everything ready, but forgot to issue the command)

[20:22:52]

Blaksmith:

ahh ok.. but yah, way past the 0.24 point heh

[20:23:18]

Blaksmith:

I DO actually have an 0.24 backup of my dir though too.. but not going to stress over that hehehe

[20:23:45]

Blaksmith:

heh

[20:24:03]

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[20:24:15]

sphery:

joemyth: anyway, 0.24 was released at protocol version 63 and DB version 1264 and current unstable/development code uses proto version 70 and DB version 1288 (so 7 changes to network protocol and 24 changes to DB)

[20:24:48]

Blaksmith:

lol.. go figure.. 08 is available for ubuntu update now LOL

[20:25:00]

gpd:

any suggestions why my mythtv has started giving 0byte files as of 4 days ago?

[20:25:16]

sphery:

and if you have any combination of systems where either of those differ, the mythtv apps will terminate (except with a master backend or mythtv-setup started against and old schema version database--they will upgrade the database)

[20:25:47]

Blaksmith:

and, I found out how to do a "force version" with synaptic

[20:25:53]

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[20:26:09]

sphery:

skd5aner: nice work... under a month to go to catch up?

[20:26:25]

joemyth:

oh okay so the versions dont really change very frequently, unless under heavy development?

[20:26:39]

skd5aner:

sphery: well, still about 3 months behind :/

[20:26:57]

skd5aner:

sphery: I can probably nock out Sept and Oct pretty quick, maybe by next week sometime

[20:27:00]

sphery:

ohh, it's oldest to newest

[20:27:08]

sphery:

saw Nov 11...

[20:27:12]

sphery:

but it's 2010

[20:27:17]

skd5aner:

heh

[20:27:32]

sphery:

anyway, yeah, I was actually upgrading for a couple of semi-recent fixes that were specifically for the frontend/playback

[20:27:33]

gpd:

ProgramInfo(1004_20111208200800.mpg), Error: GetPlaybackURL: '1004_20111208200800.mpg' should be local, but it can not be found.

[20:27:50]

sphery:

gpd: which capture device?

[20:27:53]

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[20:28:27]

gpd:

sphery: not sure- can i tell from backend log?

[20:28:29]

skd5aner:

joemyth: the protocol and db versions almost never changed (unless absolutely necessary) in any release or -fixes branch, but will change many times in MASTER development branch

[20:28:40]

gpd:

2011-12–08 20:26:52.821 Error deleting 'GetPlaybackURL/UNABLE/TO/FIND/LOCAL/FILE/ON/lazy/1004_20111208200800.mpg' could

[20:28:49]

sphery:

skd5aner: ah, I see--you were pointing out when the ability to build 0.24-fixes on a system that was built without v4l1 went in...

[20:28:56]

sphery:

(now I see what #283 means :)

[20:29:09]

Muzer:

hmm. Finally finished completely setting up everything. I have a DVB-T card and a DVB-S2 card. I'm currently recording something on the DVB-S2 card, yet I can't seem to switch to channels on the DVB-T card (yet system information verifies that the DVB-T card is not recording)

[20:29:12]

sphery:

gpd: what type of capture card(s) do you have?

[20:29:13]

skd5aner:

most things that require a protocol/version change are not backported to -fixes or "dot" releases unless it's critical or can't be done any other way

[20:29:15]

Muzer:

what's going on? Is something set up wrong?

[20:29:36]

skd5aner:

sphery: yea

[20:29:57]

Muzer:

terrestrial channels showing up as blue in the guide

[20:30:17]

sphery:

Muzer: you're locked on a multirec mux... Use MENU to change to a different card/input

[20:30:25]

gpd:

sphery: PCI cx88

[20:30:28]

sphery:

then you can change channels on the DVB-T

[20:30:42]

sphery:

gpd: digital capture?

[20:30:46]

Muzer:

sphery: where do I change the card on the menu?

[20:30:50]

skd5aner:

multirec mux – live tv's arch nemesis

[20:30:59]

gpd:

sphery: 03:06.0 Multimedia video controller: Conexant Systems, Inc. CX23880/1/2/3 PCI Video and Audio Decoder (rev 05)

[20:31:01]

Muzer:

I can see only audio, video, schedule, playback, source, jobs

[20:31:03]

sphery:

Muzer: something like Source

[20:31:08]

Muzer:

and source doesn't seem to do it

[20:31:10]

skd5aner:

"Y" maybe?

[20:31:15]

Muzer:

(just has "Jump to program")

[20:31:20]

gpd:

sphery: has been working for years without hitch

[20:31:36]

Muzer:

tried pressing Y and C and various other shortcutse

[20:31:42]

Muzer:

whatever I do, I can't get it to switch to the DVB-T card

[20:32:01]

Muzer:

even though I'm positive it's working and has channels stored.

[20:32:11]

sphery:

Muzer: sounds like the dvb-t card isn't working properly/wasn't detected by mythbackend (i.e. bad permissions or something)

[20:32:13]

gpd:

sphery: hdd not full. but i do do updates via ppa – any chance something broke on update?

[20:32:32]

** Blaksmith twiddles his thumbs while waiting for the backend to update to 20111208 **

[20:32:43]

sphery:

gpd: are you using 0.24-fixes (or unstable/development/0.25pre)

[20:32:43]

Muzer:

sphery: it worked in the mythsetup, when i scanned things... I'll see if I can get it to work when the recording finishes...

[20:32:53]

Muzer:

(not for half an hour)

[20:33:05]

sphery:

Muzer: did you run mythtv-setup as the same user that runs mythbackend?

[20:33:19]

gpd:

sphery: 2:0.24.1+fixes.20111207.40f3bae-0ubuntu0mythbuntu1

[20:33:20]

Muzer:

but yeah... I did have to swap my two cards earlier

[20:33:20]

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[20:33:28]

Muzer:

sphery: I believe so, assuming the menu option in xubuntu does that

[20:33:31]

Muzer:

*mythbuntu

[20:33:38]

sphery:

gpd: then it's not changes in mythtv that broke your recording...

[20:33:54]

sphery:

if it pulled in other changes, that could have broken it

[20:34:00]

Muzer:

but for some reason mythbuntu decided it wanted to swap the cards around (0 to 1 and 1 to 0), so I did have to swap them in mythtv; I'm wondering if I could have done that wrong

[20:34:04]

sphery:

gpd: did you try a cold reboot?

[20:34:07]

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[20:34:19]

Muzer:

(but scanning channels on both worked, and it's currently recording perfectly fine (I can watch what it's recording and other channels on that TP)

[20:34:30]

gpd:

sphery: you mean poweroff for a few mins rather than reboot?

[20:34:45]

sphery:

Muzer: that sounds quite possible... (Note, also, that unless you explicitly lock device order, they're likely to keep flipping)

[20:35:19]

sphery:

i.e. device initialization is done asynchronously, so device numbering is determined by "whichever finished first this time"

[20:36:23]

sphery:

Muzer: I'd recommend doing a "Delete all capture cards" (not "Delete all capture cards on <hostname>"), then re-create the capture cards and re-connect inputs (and for DVB-S, you probably also have to rebuild the diseqc tree)

[20:36:34]

sphery:

Muzer: and make sure you've done something to make the device ordering permanent

[20:36:37]

sphery:

gpd: yes

[20:37:27]

sphery:

gpd: my cards will get into a state where they fail to work if I try to tune a no-longer-existing channel, and to fix them, I have to do a reboot to fully re-init the cards

[20:37:43]

gpd:

sphery: will try – only other update of significance was a new kernel from ubuntu 2.6.32.35.41

[20:38:10]

sphery:

just hoping your issues is as simple as that--though if it is and MythTV tries to tune the moved channel, again, it could put you back to where you are now

[20:38:34]

sphery:

meaning you may want to go into mythtv-setup before reboot and change the starting channel on each of your cards to a known-good channel

[20:39:00]

sphery:

(as starting channel is updated with every tuning)

[20:39:24]

Blaksmith:

hrm.. I wonder if I'm going ot have issues .. frontend has 08 pushed, while gentoo's backend still shows 07

[20:39:40]

gpd:

strange that i've never had this problem. i've had strange 0byte files before but this is on all channels

[20:39:41]

Blaksmith:

gentoo's git hub is a day behind

[20:45:29]

Muzer:

hmm

[20:45:50]

Muzer:

anyone got any clue how to stop the DVB devices from changing? It seems easy for analogue video devices, but I can't seem to work it out for digital ones...

[20:47:18]

sphery:

udev and/or module options if the drivers provide such options

[20:47:37]

sphery:

and, yeah, udev is the definition of "not easy" :)

[20:47:58]

sphery:

Muzer: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Device_Filenames_and_udev

[20:48:04]

Muzer:

ah, just found that as you posted it :p

[20:48:58]

sphery:

there may be easier ways--but udev is the right way, even when there are shortcuts/hacks (like with ivtv drivers)

[20:49:11]

sphery:

or most of the analog ones, I think

[20:52:27]

Muzer:

hmm, modprobe options might be easier... especially the adapter_nr option

[20:52:28]

sphery:

there, now all 5 systems have been updated... can't believe I forgot to hit enter on the one.

[20:52:46]

sphery:

yeah, if the driver has such options, that's definitely easier

[20:52:50]

sphery:

not all drivers support it, though

[20:52:55]

Muzer:

ah.

[20:53:04]

Muzer:

where can I find out, so I don't need to waste time rebooting?

[20:53:08]

Muzer:

I assume some documentation somewhree

[20:53:24]

sphery:

(as the plan was to use udev to control it, and distros would make nice tools to help users do the right thing, but no one ever made the tools, so instead they added workarounds since users couldn't figure out udev)

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[20:53:59]

Muzer:

dvb_bt8xx and cx88_dvb are mine...

[20:54:15]

Muzer:

but yeah, it looks relatively simple for analogue

[20:54:19]

sphery:

where the tools would have configured the udev rules using a Windows-like GUI configuration program that allows users to enable/disable/lock/...

[20:54:19]

Muzer:

but horribly complicated for digital :p

[20:54:25]

Muzer:

because they have directories rather than files...

[20:54:51]

Muzer:

I don't see why someone doesn't hack udev just to store the settings for device numbers first time in its own auto-generated rules file

[20:54:59]

Muzer:

and then it never changes

[20:56:01]

sphery:

because then users would complain, "After removing my old dual-tuner card, now my remaining tuners are /dev/dvb/adapter2 through 4... Why won't it reset like any sane system should?"

[20:56:22]

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[20:56:28]

sphery:

(i.e. someone will always find a reason to complain about even the least important things)

[20:56:51]

sphery:

or,

[20:57:22]

sphery:

more precisely, regardless of how great the advantage of a solution, someone will shoot it down due to some tiny/insignificant disadvantage

[20:57:28]

Muzer:

but users silly enough to not be able to figure out why it works shouldn't have to notice what the devices are even called ;)

[20:57:39]

Muzer:

anyway

[20:58:25]

sphery:

agreed, but somehow they do :)

[20:58:49]

sphery:

(and their lack of understanding is why it seems such a big deal to them)

[20:59:09]

Muzer:

gah, stupid Ubuntu, doesn't seem to come with module documentation

[20:59:22]

Muzer:

hang on, this netbook is Gentoo, I probably still have the docs on here (though I might have deleted them to save space)

[20:59:46]

Muzer:

yep, I did

[21:00:22]

sphery:

Muzer: modinfo <modulename>

[21:00:55]

sphery:

(usually modinfo is in /sbin, so you may have to provide path--but doesn't require root to run)

[21:01:26]

sphery:

so, like: /sbin/modinfo cx88-dvb

[21:01:35]

Muzer:

ah, never knew that command, very useful... I always waded through documentation files

[21:02:11]

Muzer:

cx88 supports it

[21:02:33]

Muzer:

so does bt8xx :)

[21:02:46]

Muzer:

thanks for that hint, I'm surprised I never heard of that command before

[21:03:39]

Muzer:

yep, recording has finished and I can now tune to DVB-T channels (as well as DVB-S ones)

[21:03:47]

Muzer:

so yeah, something weird's linked them together or something

[21:06:36]

sphery:

well, when you start live tv when a recording is in progress, you will generally (unless you've done hacks to do otherwise) start on a virtual tuner that's associated with the physical tuner doing the recording --meaning you can't change to a different channel on this tuner

[21:06:42]

sphery:

so you need to change to a different tuner

[21:07:07]

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[21:07:09]

Muzer:

yeah, I know

[21:07:14]

Muzer:

but it wouldn't let me change to a different tuner either

[21:07:18]

sphery:

there is an option to do so somewhere in the MENU, but I don't know where because a) I don't use Live TV and b) I wouldn't use the menu if I did, I would map a key to NEXTCARD

[21:07:24]

Muzer:

y and c were doing nothing, the guide was showing the DVB-T channels in blue

[21:07:30]

Muzer:

and the menu didn't have an option

[21:07:33]

sphery:

y and c don't do what people think they do

[21:09:07]

sphery:

Y = Switch Capture Card view and C = Switch Capture Card view(???? I think that should be something about input)

[21:09:46]

gpd:

sphery: it seems that it was a PEBKAC error

[21:10:03]

gpd:

sphery: wrong ariel cable unplugged 4 days ago. doh!

[21:10:05]

sphery:

er, sorry--those are in other context

[21:10:33]

sphery:

Y = "Next Video Source" and C = "Next Input"... You actually need NEXTCARD, which isn't mapped to any key

[21:11:02]

sphery:

so you need to map your own (I mapped Ctrl-C to NEXTCARD in Utilities/Setup|Edit Keys)

[21:11:16]

sphery:

gpd: hehe, cool--glad you figured it out

[21:11:20]

sphery:

I've done similar many times

[21:11:53]

sphery:

spent 20min trying to debug a non-functional sound card that seemed functional when it turned out I had plugged the cable into the wrong card

[21:12:18]

gpd:

sphery: thanks for your help. some crawling around in the void and floorboard drilling and now all systems working again. :)

[21:12:33]

sphery:

(seemed functional in that it didn't give any errors, but non-functional in that I didn't get any sound)

[21:12:50]

sphery:

enjoy... hope you get reruns of the missed recordings

[21:13:01]

sphery:

you can select them in Watch Recordings and Delete and allow re-record

[21:13:09]

gpd:

yes, similarly I tested the live tv... just before unplugging the cable! which i thought was something esle

[21:13:22]

Muzer:

sphery: but they are actually different inputs as well, I believe...

[21:13:26]

Muzer:

at least, c works normally

[21:13:27]

gpd:

ok – time for a beer!

[21:13:28]

Muzer:

(when not recording)

[21:13:41]

Muzer:

but yeah, I couldn't find a next card menu option

[21:13:42]

sphery:

Muzer: next input means next input on this card (and you likely don't have one)

[21:15:37]

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[21:16:40]

simonuk:

anyone know a fix to mythwelcome not counting down when idle, it only does this after a reboot

[21:17:18]

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[21:19:22]

Muzer:

AHA

[21:19:24]

Muzer:

sphery: found the issue

[21:19:30]

Muzer:

for some reason Input Group 1 had set itself.

[21:20:22]

Muzer:

and both were set to the same thing

[21:20:33]

sphery:

ahhh, yeah, almost mentioned input groups, but thought that was too hard to accidentally overlap

[21:20:40]

sphery:

next time I'll actually mention it :)

[21:20:46]

Muzer:

heh

[21:20:51]

Muzer:

I think it set itself somehow... no idea why

[21:20:56]

Muzer:

when I was swapping them around I mean

[21:21:00]

sphery:

sorry... but on the bright side, it was only about 10mins ago or something

[21:21:06]

Muzer:

because some weird things happened (one of them disappeared and the other duplicated itself)

[21:21:08]

Muzer:

nah, it's fine

[21:21:11]

sphery:

yeah, likely because of the swapping is how it got messed up

[21:21:13]

Muzer:

I only just opened the settings anyway

[21:21:18]

sphery:

the delete all capture cards would have cleared it

[21:21:19]

Muzer:

I was going to change some other stuff

[21:21:26]

sphery:

but this way, at least you know what broke it

[21:22:16]

sphery:

(I tend to be the "start from a known state and build up" instead of a "tear down all possible misconfigurations" type of person--i.e. I never try to fix a broken Windows system, instead I reinstall :)

[21:22:55]

sphery:

and with delete all capture cards and then re-configuring them taking about 2min, it's almost always faster than figuring out a misconfiguration

[21:23:12]

Blaksmith:

hmm, any idea when the new github is going to be updated for gentoo? mythtv-0.25_pre20111207 ... while ubuntu already has 08 pushed

[21:23:31]

Blaksmith:

and of course, 08 isn't liking 07 ..

[21:23:59]

sphery:

(and strangely, with a Windows install taking as much as 8hrs or so--when factoring in time for collecting data, reinstalling OS, reinstalling all apps, putting data back--it's /really/ sad that's often faster than diagnosing and fixing a problem with windows :)

[21:24:38]

sphery:

not sure... wagnerrp tends to update it (I think, generally, as he updates his systems)

[21:24:57]

sphery:

I think you can update the version it uses easily enough yourself...

[21:25:10]

sphery:

like locally

[21:25:26]

Blaksmith:

using the mythtv-buildebuild.py script from the github

[21:25:39]

Blaksmith:

and it fetches the latest that is pushed to it

[21:25:51]

simonuk:

anyone know a fix to mythwelcome not counting down when idle, it only does this after a reboot

[21:27:40]

sphery:

simonuk: there are a couple of tickets filed about it and many discussions on lists (where I think the "solutions" are all technically wrong, but make it seem to work properly)

[21:29:12]

simonuk:

any particular list i can search ?

[21:29:44]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ ... I've seen discussions on -users and -dev lists

[21:29:58]

wagnerrp:

Blaksmith: no, mythtv-buildebuild.py generates a new ebuild, by default mapped to whatever the latest committed hash is

[21:30:02]

sphery:

and tickets are in -commits list or http://code.mythtv.org/trac

[21:30:13]

wagnerrp:

or you can specify a specific hash you want to make an ebuild for

[21:30:29]

wagnerrp:

its what i use to make the new ebuilds in the first place

[21:30:42]

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[21:31:02]

wagnerrp:

just go to the root of your overlay directory, run 'scripts/mythtv-buildebuild.py'

[21:31:05]

Blaksmith:

wagnerrp, ok, I have no idea about how to say which has would be today's hash, rather than the one it is pulling in, from yesterday

[21:31:32]

wagnerrp:

and it will create a fresh, new ebuild using the absolute latest tree

[21:31:48]

Blaksmith:

yah, I do that, and it is selecting the hash showing yesterdays' date

[21:32:08]

sphery:

Blaksmith: if you do a mythfrontend --version , does it have a hash in the MythTV version string?

[21:32:24]

wagnerrp:

because the most recent commit was 10:48PM EST, yesterday

[21:32:41]

sphery:

something like: MythTV Version : v0.24.1-112-g40f3bae

[21:32:47]

Muzer:

oh

[21:32:48]

sphery:

where the hash is 40f3bae

[21:32:49]

Blaksmith:

no, it doesn't

[21:32:53]

wagnerrp:

actually... -0800

[21:32:55]

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[21:32:55]

Muzer:

OK, a few minor things

[21:33:17]

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[21:33:20]

wagnerrp:

i guess it would be from 7:48PM PST

[21:33:22]

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[21:33:46]

Muzer:

EPG data is obtained from terrestrial and satellite EIT data. I prefer the satellite EIT data as it has better genre marking, but in the channels I've set as being the same (same number/callsign), it uses the terrestrial one – is there a way to tell it to use the satellite one?

[21:33:54]

Blaksmith:

oh wait yes it does .. v0.25pre-3888-gb7683fa

[21:34:32]

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[21:36:29]

sphery:

Blaksmith: yeah, the *buntu one should have a hash

[21:36:38]

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[21:36:40]

sphery:

the gentoo one uses date, right?

[21:36:50]

Blaksmith:

I just need them to match ... that's all heh

[21:37:13]

Blaksmith:

well, gentoo has a hash too, but it is a super long one, vs the buntu one has a short hash

[21:37:59]

Blaksmith:

once I get them matched again, I found a way to "lock version" in ubuntu .. so I won't have this issue in the future..

[21:38:04]

sphery:

in theory, chopping all but the first 7 letters off the long one results in the same revision

[21:38:11]

sphery:

s/letters/digits/

[21:38:24]

sphery:

where those are hexadecimal digits

[21:41:22]

Blaksmith:

granted, the has will most likely be different starting due to the way they are generated, not sure how you are trying to say how to match them up .. in *buntu, use the apt-get install mythtv-2:0.25.0~master.20111207.<first 7 chars of the hash from yesterday>

[21:43:27]

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[21:44:10]

Blaksmith:

other than waiting for gentoo's master to be updated, I don't know how to force a different version in ubuntu..

[21:44:19]

Blaksmith:

that isn't in my list, that is

[21:44:38]

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[21:45:03]

Muzer:

and finally, is there any chance of the grabbers in this package: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tvgrabeit/ being officially included (specifically OpenTV/Sky UK grabbing) or are we going to have to stick with the limited Freesat data or kludgy workarounds?

[21:45:10]

sphery:

sounded like wagnerrp was saying you can specify that hash from yesterday to the build ebuild script

[21:45:28]

Blaksmith:

sphery, I HAVE the code from yesterday

[21:46:05]

sphery:

oh, I'm saying make the gentoo system match the ubuntu system

[21:46:06]

Blaksmith:

I either need the github for gentoo for "today" or, try and and find the version for yesterday for ubuntu

[21:46:16]

sphery:

since you can choose revision in ubuntu

[21:46:18]

Blaksmith:

that's what I'm saying Ubuntu is "TODAY"

[21:46:23]

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[21:46:33]

Blaksmith:

but, I do "not" have yesterday's for ubuntu

[21:47:00]

skd5aner:

why not just use last week's?

[21:47:06]

sphery:

right, so make gentoo today's

[21:47:21]

Blaksmith:

sphery, gentoo does "not" have "today's" pushed YET

[21:47:38]

iamlindoro:

gentoo doesn't need anything "pushed"

[21:48:05]

Blaksmith:

well, the github that the gentoo script uses to pull the latest, is for yesterday, not today

[21:48:08]

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[21:48:24]

sphery:

2c930a727e4d0f9227684ae4825ea558597f82a5 ?

[21:48:33]

sphery:

that's the latest commit on the repo

[21:48:43]

iamlindoro:

The last commit was 17 hours ago

[21:48:43]

Blaksmith:

yes, that's the hash that I pull in fro the gentoo

[21:48:47]

sphery:

2011-12–07T19:47:38–08:00

[21:48:51]

iamlindoro:

meaning yesterday

[21:48:53]

sphery:

and what's ubuntu using?

[21:49:03]

sphery:

v0.25pre-3888-gb7683fa

[21:49:17]

Blaksmith:

v0.25pre-3888-gb7683fa

[21:49:20]

Blaksmith:

yes

[21:49:23]

iamlindoro:

So they're one commit *older*

[21:49:48]

iamlindoro:

meaning you need to wait for later today for Ubuntu to build the commit you are getting from gentoo

[21:49:57]

iamlindoro:

So go take a walk for a few hours

[21:50:01]

iamlindoro:

then update your Ubuntu box

[21:50:10]

Blaksmith:

ok, so ubuntu is older than gentoo..

[21:50:41]

sphery:

Blaksmith: <+wagnerrp> Blaksmith: no, mythtv-buildebuild.py generates a new ebuild, by default mapped to whatever the latest committed hash is / <+wagnerrp> or you can specify a specific hash you want to make an ebuild for

[21:50:54]

Blaksmith:

ok, because the date in synaptic shows that it is 20111208 .. but ok.. just a waiting game

[21:50:58]

sphery:

so, "specify a specific hash you want to make an ebuild for" using hash b7683fa

[21:51:22]

sphery:

ubuntu gives date based on when they build and gentoo uses date at which revision was pushed to repo

[21:51:31]

sphery:

only thing you can really compare is hashes

[21:51:46]

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[21:52:32]

sphery:

Blaksmith: meaning no need to wait for ubuntu to get newer, since you can downgrade from 2c930a72 to b7683fa safely as long as you rebuild plugins

[21:52:50]

sphery:

so just build an ebuild for gentoo using b7683fa

[21:53:26]

Blaksmith:

trying to get it to grab hash b7683fa, and the script is yelling at me .. must not be doing it right

[21:54:45]

sphery:

Blaksmith: might want to try: b7683faadb82345507bd3b25d2821b96155b3b44

[21:54:52]

sphery:

if it requires a full hash, that should work

[21:55:13]

Blaksmith:

hehe, now to get the full hash to the other machine easilly lol

[21:55:46]

sphery:

actually, now that someone has pointed it out to me, this shouldn't matter

[21:56:05]

Blaksmith:

nope, didn't like the full hash either

[21:56:13]

sphery:

as you can run a 2c930a72 backend with a b7683fa frontend without problems

[21:56:34]

iamlindoro:

and vice versa

[21:56:55]

sphery:

meaning that likely you pulled an update in *buntu, but it's not running the new version

[21:57:32]

sphery:

I highly recommend you reboot the ubuntu system (assuming your gentoo system is up to date--even with 2c930a72... it doesn't have to be same as ubuntu with these 2 particular versions)

[21:57:42]

Blaksmith:

yah, what caused all of this, was this morning, *buntu had updates, and it updated my frontend .. and stupid me, didn't know about locking versions (till now) ...

[21:58:31]

Blaksmith:

and I knew that I had to match versions ... so, updated the gentoo backend, and they still don't match.. so, like you said, some update went in, but not "using" the new version or something like that

[21:58:38]

sphery:

well, in this case, it should work once you get ubuntu to actually /use/ the new version

[21:58:45]

sphery:

it seems to be running with the old libs

[21:58:48]

sphery:

so a reboot should fix it

[21:59:00]

Blaksmith:

yah, I noticed the libs are dated 20111201

[22:01:29]

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[22:03:36]

Blaksmith:

hmm, maybe I haven't actually updated the backend database.. using SchemaVer 1285 ..

[22:04:12]

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[22:04:44]

Blaksmith:

heh, that was it .. must have missed a step in the backend.. it is working now :D

[22:06:22]

Blaksmith:

thanks :D

[22:07:26]

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[22:07:32]

sphery:

glad you got it

[22:07:32]

Muzer:

hmm... this is irritating

[22:07:51]

Muzer:

Channel 4 HD's EPG is laid out slightly differently to the SD version, so MythTV is counting the programmes as being different

[22:08:12]

Muzer:

in particular, it's labelling the programmes in the T4 strand with a "T4: " prefix whereas the SD versions don't seem to be doing that

[22:08:33]

Muzer:

it's also not putting the episode title in the correct field

[22:09:10]

Muzer:

is there any way to fix these issues?

[22:09:15]

sphery:

mythtv uses xmltv data or EIT

[22:09:23]

Muzer:

this is all EIT

[22:09:31]

Muzer:

just wondering if there's a way to strip out the "T4: " prefix

[22:09:56]

sphery:

you'd have to ask other uk user what they see

[22:10:42]

sphery:

there are things to fix up brokenness in some provider's EIT, but they would break as often as the provider changes things around, so might just be out of date/need someone to update it

[22:11:42]

Muzer:

ah. Channel 4 HD is relatively new to be free-to-air on satellite (April this year), so perhaps it actually does the same thing that C4 does, but just doesn't get checked the same.

[22:11:56]

Muzer:

is there a file with these hacks in, or is it all hardcoded?

[22:12:31]

sphery:

it's coded in, not an external script or anything

[22:13:06]

sphery:

talk to someone in the UK--there are many users there, so it's unlikely someone hasn't figured out the right thing to do

[22:13:12]

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[22:13:25]

sphery:

and it's quit possible that this is a misconfiguration of your system and not an eit fixup issue

[22:13:38]

sphery:

(meaning I know nothing of UK stuff)

[22:13:58]

Muzer:

anyone from the UK here?

[22:14:24]

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[22:14:26]

sphery:

if you don't cross paths with anyone here, might also want to try mythtv-users mailing list

[22:14:40]

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[22:14:50]

Muzer:

I just want to look at the source file in question... any idea which file all that stuff is in?

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[22:37:23]

Muzer:

ah, here we go

[22:37:27]

Muzer:

there IS one to remove T4 from the start

[22:37:37]

Muzer:

but I don't know why it's not activated

[22:37:46]

Muzer:

"Event Fix Up Scripts – Turned on by entry in dtv_privatetype table" – does that mean I'll have to edit the SQL manually?

[22:38:36]

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[22:42:38]

Muzer:

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWw

[22:42:45]

Muzer:

there's a hardcoded list of transponder IDs?

[22:42:47]

Muzer:

that will explain it!

[22:42:54]

Muzer:

Ch4 HD changed tps a few weeks ago

[22:42:55]

Muzer:

ugh

[22:42:57]

Muzer:

that's horrible

[22:43:01]

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[22:44:34]

Muzer:

I don't suppose there's a way to override it without recompiling the whole thing either...

[22:45:04]

sphery:

hardcoded meaning that we have code that applies fixes based on the transponder id?

[22:45:12]

Muzer:

yeah

[22:45:26]

sphery:

and because that code is internal and not an external script, it's only editable by changing source and re-compiling?

[22:45:31]

Muzer:

yeah

[22:45:42]

sphery:

we don't support external fixups

[22:45:44]

Muzer:

when it's the sort of thing that would change relatively frequently

[22:45:57]

sphery:

if you know of a better way to identify when to apply a fixup, feel free to write a patch to show us

[22:46:06]

Muzer:

certainly more frequently than distro update cycles

[22:46:41]

sphery:

if you want external fixups, feel free to write a patch to do so, then do profiling to see just how much is slows down the system during EIT collection to allow us to decide if it's acceptable or not

[22:46:46]

Muzer:

firstly, quick fix for current – someone add fix[ 2068LL << 32 | 2U << 16] = EITFixUp::kFixUK; to eithelper.cpp

[22:46:47]

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[22:47:04]

sphery:

you'll need to submit a ticket so it can be reviewed by someone in the know

[22:47:26]

sphery:

http://code.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/TicketHowTo + http://code.mythtv.org/trac

[22:48:40]

Muzer:

perhaps I'm not asking for external fixes – just for the ability for the internal fixes to be applied through some external means

[22:49:37]

sphery:

either way, it's a feature request, so either needs a patch or you can put it on the wiki and hope someone else likes the idea enough to do the work for you

[22:49:41]

Muzer:

for example, an identity of the set of fixes to apply stored with the transponder/multiplex data (which, if I'm correct, is read anyway for EIT data collection) – automatically-detected, but easily changeable in the interface.

[22:49:43]

Muzer:

right.

[22:49:51]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Feature_Wishlist

[22:49:55]

Muzer:

anyway, I'll sumbit this bug first.

[22:50:08]

sphery:

thanks

[22:51:23]

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[22:53:44]

Muzer:

minor I assume

[22:53:55]

Muzer:

and medium severity

[22:53:59]

sphery:

hehe, so it's official--even with all the JavaScript speedups between FF5 and FF8, Github still DoS's on large changesets and large files

[22:54:07]

sphery:

defaults, please

[22:54:14]

sphery:

those are changed by the developer who reviews it

[22:54:32]

Muzer:

k

[22:54:36]

Muzer:

thought so

[22:54:45]

Muzer:

http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10198

[22:54:49]

sphery:

ideally, we'd fix the form to not even offer those values to users, but I'm the only one who believes it's worthwhile, and I don't have permissions on the server to change it :)

[22:55:16]

sphery:

your backend is Gentoo, right?

[22:55:25]

sphery:

if so, should be easy enough for you to recompile with that

[22:55:32]

sphery:

(easy, but requires time :)

[22:55:40]

sphery:

until it gets reviewed/included

[22:55:45]

Muzer:

nope, Mythbuntu, as I wanted to get it up and running fast

[22:55:51]

Muzer:

so yeah, probably wait until April ;)

[22:56:05]

Muzer:

Gentoo is all my other computers

[22:58:24]

sphery:

is 4 HD on DVB-S2

[22:59:01]

sphery:

I think one of the UK devs who's still rather active has been playing with that, so it may get reviewed soon

[22:59:12]

Muzer:

yes, ah.

[22:59:19]

Muzer:

it's just moved to a new satellite

[22:59:21]

Muzer:

(Astra 1N)

[22:59:29]

Muzer:

along with a few other channels, which might also need changing

[22:59:39]

Muzer:

yeah

[23:00:07]

Muzer:

2063 and 2057 should probably be added as well...

[23:00:17]

Muzer:

I'll add a comment

[23:00:42]

Muzer:

I'll see if there are any more missing...

[23:00:54]

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[23:01:04]

sphery:

thanks for reporting it, though--the more info you can provide, the quicker all the new channel stuff is likely to be updatede

[23:01:33]

skd5aner:

sphery: mind giving me a little more detail about the impact of this change? http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-fireho . . . /001706.html

[23:01:39]

Muzer:

hmm

[23:01:42]

Muzer:

actually it's REALLY out of date

[23:02:55]

skd5aner:

sphery: I thought arrow key acellerators were already removed?

[23:02:56]

sphery:

skd5aner: it causes tons of users to yell at me, and think I actually changed something

[23:03:21]

skd5aner:

sphery: yea, I already figured that was true ;)

[23:03:23]

sphery:

then causes people to rally up and accept a terrible hack of a patch that allows themers to remap any key to any action without user's knowledge or intervention

[23:03:38]

sphery:

so, now, you can make Right in the Watch Recordings screen delete a recording

[23:03:56]

sphery:

and make Select in Watch Recordings enter the Edit Recordings screen

[23:04:36]

sphery:

basically, the later changes undid any standardization from that one

[23:04:45]

sphery:

and now we have something more like 0.21 fixes

[23:04:58]

sphery:

which is the entire goal of development, right? to create something more like an older version?

[23:05:16]

skd5aner:

So....

[23:05:18]

skd5aner:

I'm lost

[23:05:31]

sphery:

(meaning release notes don't need to say anything about that--at least nothing more than what that said, because it was completely undone)

[23:05:49]

sphery:

and now, arrow keys are just as inconsistent as before

[23:05:53]

skd5aner:

I at least want to mention the removal of the setting

[23:06:15]

sphery:

it was a setting that wasn't even used in the code when I removed it

[23:06:24]

skd5aner:

dead already?

[23:06:29]

skd5aner:

so – actually, nothing changes?

[23:06:33]

sphery:

since 0.22

[23:06:42]

skd5aner:

yea, that's why I was confused...

[23:06:49]

skd5aner:

I knew this changed a long time ago

[23:07:00]

sphery:

it undid the hard-coded always-on version of that functionality that existed only in some dialog boxes

[23:07:08]

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[23:07:26]

sphery:

and it seems that losing 95% of the functionality in 0.22 made people mad and made them whine on list

[23:07:28]

skd5aner:

I'll just put this "** Use Arrow Key Accelerators – Setting hasn't been active since 0.22 {{gitcommit|0e84bfe}}" under the removed settings stuff

[23:07:41]

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[23:07:49]

sphery:

but taking the last 5% made them revolt

[23:07:58]

** skd5aner never whined, but honestly really liked the feature... **

[23:08:07]

sphery:

I liked the feature

[23:08:16]

skd5aner:

I notice it still sorta works in some screens, which is nice

[23:08:25]

sphery:

but I /hate/ that now we have different behaviors in different themes and different screens

[23:08:32]

sphery:

which is worse than we were before my commit

[23:08:46]

sphery:

before, we had different behavior on different dialogs (but same across all themes)

[23:08:51]

skd5aner:

yea – people should be able to navigate by muscle memory

[23:08:58]

sphery:

now it's different on /any/ screen or dialog depending on theme

[23:09:08]

sphery:

and people can't even affect it by changing key bindings

[23:09:22]

skd5aner:

yea – yay for themeability!

[23:09:26]

skd5aner:

;)

[23:09:35]

sphery:

I seriously want to put out a theme that does stuff like make Right in the Watch Recordings screen delete stuff

[23:09:36]

skd5aner:

boo for consistent UX

[23:09:47]

sphery:

themability is good

[23:10:08]

sphery:

but breaking all consistency to allow a lazy person to not have to move their thumb is stupid

[23:10:17]

sphery:

can you tell I'm very bitter about that

[23:10:37]

sphery:

(and it's 99% of the reason I've been helping you to catch up--by not doing much of anything to change MythTV since then)

[23:10:50]

skd5aner:

how gracious!

[23:11:51]

skd5aner:

was commit activty really this sucky in sept or did -firehouse miss a massive ammount of activity?

[23:12:08]

** skd5aner hates navigating github to find out :P **

[23:12:23]

sphery:

ttbomk, it was just a light month

[23:12:27]

sphery:

lot of people busy

[23:14:08]

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[23:14:48]

skd5aner:

yea, you've made like 80% of the commits through the first week

[23:15:04]

Muzer:

[23:15:11]

sphery:

thx

[23:15:31]

sphery:

I have a feeling come tomorrow morning (the other) Stuart will notice it

[23:15:45]

sphery:

if not, I'll mention it to him (as stuarta has been pretty busy lately)

[23:16:30]

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[23:20:53]

Muzer:

hmm, so, now I wonder if I can figure out a quick workaround for myself

[23:21:24]

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[23:21:36]

Muzer:

I don't suppose there's a way I can tell it to use the same EIT data as another channel without setting them to have the same callsign (as I'd like the ability to switch between them easily still)

[23:22:43]

sphery:

skd5aner: better description of that commit is basically, "** Remove Arrow Key Accelerators setting – Setting hasn't been active since 0.22 {{gitcommit|0e84bfe}}" or something (as that removes the widget), and other people put in stuff to restore some semblance of the functionality

[23:23:31]

sphery:

even if you set them to have the same callsign, it would still pick up the EIT from the specific channel

[23:23:43]

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[23:23:50]

Muzer:

ah

[23:23:52]

sphery:

you can't share eit data on multiple channels

[23:24:19]

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[23:24:21]

Muzer:

so yeah, there's no quick workaround (aside to switching to RT or recompiling)

[23:24:50]

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[23:25:23]

sphery:

closest approach would be to use external tools like tv_grab_dvb or tv_grab_eit or whatever it's called to make an XMLTV file and then use the same xmltvid on both channels and load data using mythfilldatabase once for each video source... but note that you can't mix eit and xmltv on the same channel

[23:25:32]

sphery:

and that's likely more work than it's worth

[23:25:35]

Muzer:

yeah

[23:25:41]

Muzer:

I'd have to time it carefully

[23:25:48]

Muzer:

to make sure nothing can possibly be recording

[23:25:54]

Muzer:

not worth the effort really

[23:25:56]

sphery:

yeah, that too

[23:26:06]

sphery:

or get another tuner that's specifically for xmltv's use

[23:26:11]

sphery:

which is a waste

[23:26:27]

Muzer:

just going to add a feature request to the Wiki – this look OK? Anything I should add/tweak?

[23:26:28]

Muzer:

* Make EIT tweaks more customisable. If loading all the tweaks externally is too slow or difficult, at least load an ID of which tweak set to apply from the same place it loads transponder data (presumably that is read anyway when EIT scanning). This means users of distros with slow update times won't be disadvantaged when transponder changes happen.

[23:26:32]

sphery:

there's also RadioTimes :)

[23:26:43]

Muzer:

yeah, but that's an arse as you have to input IDs for all channels

[23:26:51]

Muzer:

well, probably :p

[23:26:57]

Muzer:

I don't know really how to do it, to be honest

[23:27:19]

Muzer:

(and I don't really want to, as I rather like using EIT data, as flawed as it may be)

[23:27:20]

sphery:

all that info is pulled out of the stream--including the transport ID

[23:27:39]

sphery:

the eit fixups only use transport ID as a way to figure out which to apply because it's relatively constant

[23:27:45]

sphery:

compared to all other data we have available

[23:27:58]

Muzer:

sphery: so it doesn't read the database at all?

[23:28:00]

sphery:

so, unless we can find a better way to choose the right fixups...

[23:28:15]

Muzer:

I mean, it must do something somewhere where it's a convenient time to check for tweaks to apply while it's at it...

[23:28:18]

sphery:

well, the database is used to tune channels

[23:28:43]

sphery:

then once tuned, the info in the stream is used to read the actual EIT and determine which fixups to apply

[23:28:48]

sphery:

at least that's my understanding

[23:29:00]

sphery:

(note, though, that I don't use eit at all, so I may be way off)

[23:29:35]

Muzer:

hmm... well, I assume it could work if it grabs which fixups to apply from the database, then holds onto them until it comes to actually reading the data... how practical would that be, if you know?

[23:30:10]

sphery:

but you can't just change stuff in the database

[23:30:16]

sphery:

what would it grab from the database?

[23:30:29]

sphery:

the transport id is just used as an identifier

[23:30:51]

sphery:

and it's in the stream--we don't control it nor have the ability to change it (and changing it in the database would just make it so you can't tune the channel)

[23:31:02]

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[23:31:36]

sphery:

so if you changed it in the database to the old value, it would prevent you from tuning that channel, so you wouldn't even get EIT data to fix up

[23:31:49]

Muzer:

no, I don't mean that

[23:32:26]

Muzer:

I mean have a new field in the database of transport streams, which has a value corresponding to which set(s) of tweaks to apply (in a similar way to how the actual code works, as the tweaks all come in sets)

[23:32:34]

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[23:33:10]

Muzer:

then when reading the database for tuning purposes for the EIT scan, also read in all the transport IDs and their corresponding tweak set IDs#

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[23:33:51]

Muzer:

then when it finds EIT data for a transport ID it saw earlier, apply the tweaks referenced in the tweak set corresponding to the tweak set ID it read from the database

[23:34:38]

sphery:

so, basically, rather than do that in memory with transport ids, abstract out the identifier to allow user control over it?

[23:34:57]

sphery:

if so, the whole idea with those fixups was that they were supposed to be user transparent

[23:35:13]

sphery:

so users didn't have to worry about which ones they needed, etc.

[23:35:48]

Muzer:

I'm thinking it would still be hardcoded which ones to set by default, but it should be editable

[23:36:03]

sphery:

it does mean when a broadcaster changes things (like just happened--and hasn't happened in the UK for a really long time before that), you have to wait a bit for things to catch up

[23:36:29]

sphery:

but it also means users don't have to know anything to get the right behavior--just need current code

[23:36:37]

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[23:37:01]

Muzer:

maybe if you're worried about users getting confused, hide it in the database and don't expose a UI option, so you'd have to edit the DB manually.

[23:37:16]

Muzer:

I don't know, perhaps it's more trouble than it's worth.

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[23:40:53]

Muzer:

hmm... there's a nice-looking PPA there that looks like it's updated frequently

[23:41:04]

Muzer:

I could apply that, then I'd have the fix ASAP.

[23:43:15]

Muzer:

completely unrelated, how do priorities work? Is total priority just the priority of the tuner added to the priority of the channel, sphery?

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[23:43:53]

sphery:

Muzer: read all of http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-12.html

[23:43:58]

sphery:

it's extremely complex

[23:44:23]

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[23:44:53]

sphery:

but the short story is: a) input priorities are /always/ evil, b) channel priorities are almost always evil, c) recording rule priorities are all you should need in 99.9999999999% of MythTV installations

[23:45:27]

Muzer:

oh.

[23:45:38]

sphery:

(where the fractional percentage only needs channel priorities to down-prioritize a channel when reception on that one channel is so bad that you'd rather not watch a show than watch one recorded from that channel)

[23:46:06]

Muzer:

with me, it's more for regionalisation – if I do find myself watching adverts, I'd like them to be adverts for my region ;)

[23:46:32]

Muzer:

in addition to HD chnnels being preferred over SD ones

[23:46:41]

Muzer:

and satellite being preferred over terrestrial as bitrates and resolutions are better

[23:46:46]

Muzer:

that's my reasoning anyway

[23:46:50]

sphery:

basically, you should define capture cards in the reverse order you want cards used for Live TV (and enable "Avoid conflicts between Live TV and scheduled shows") and then connect inputs in the order you want those inputs used for recordings

[23:46:56]

Muzer:

I'll read the page ,though.

[23:47:37]

sphery:

note, also, that more people do things wrong than do things right

[23:47:59]

sphery:

it's complex enough that even quite a few developers are using priorities incorrectly

[23:48:11]

sphery:

and nearly everyone who uses input or channel priorities think they do something they don't

[23:48:38]

sphery:

(they don't say which input/channel to use... they say which shows to record--meaning whether or not to record a show)

[23:52:59]

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[23:55:28]

Muzer:

mm... reading that, I think the Input priority is definitely the right choice for me

[23:55:41]

Muzer:

as the quality difference between satellite and terrestrial is quite large.

[23:56:07]

Twiggy2cents:

I just put arbitrary numbers on the recordings I really want/dont want for recording priorities

[23:56:26]

Twiggy2cents:

I did it back when I had 1 tuner, now it is not a big deal.

[23:56:30]

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[23:56:42]

sphery:

Muzer: remember, though, the input priority doesn't determine which input is used to record it

[23:56:53]

sphery:

it's determining whether or not to record shows

[23:56:58]

sphery:

i.e. re-read all I said above

[23:57:07]

sphery:

12.08 18:46:49 <+sphery> basically, you should define capture cards in the reverse order you want cards used for Live TV (and enable "Avoid conflicts between Live TV and scheduled shows") and then connect inputs in the order you want those inputs used for recordings

[23:57:22]

sphery:

^^^ defines which input is used to record it

[23:57:58]

sphery:

"Delete all capture cards" allows you to start over and re-define capture cards and re-connect inputs in proper order

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