Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, November 18th, 2011, 00:19 UTC

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wagnerrp:

trumee: why would you want for a hackable tv?

[00:28:23]

wagnerrp:

at least if you hack youre smartphone, youre out maybe $200 with a replacement contract

[00:28:51]

wagnerrp:

you break your tv, and a sufficiently smart one that could potentially be hacked, youre out a grand or more

[00:29:08]

wagnerrp:

besides the fact that youre not really going to be able to do anything with it once you do so

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[00:59:05]

sphery:

couldn't you just throw a few VMs on it, then use it to run mythbackend, mythfrontend, and mysql?

[00:59:28]

sphery:

and windows--for netflix, of course

[00:59:44]

wagnerrp:

i hear mythtv is designed for use on x86 architectures

[01:00:03]

sphery:

yeah, that's why you run a vm

[01:00:09]

wagnerrp:

so you would get better performance running it through an x86 VM than you would running directly on the ARM/MIPS processor in the TV

[01:00:17]

sphery:

exactly

[01:00:20]

sphery:

it's just common sense

[01:02:58]

wagnerrp:

well i think ive finally decided how i want to restructure the python bindings

[01:03:31]

sphery:

yay

[01:04:00]

wagnerrp:

now i just have to write it up, and wait for schema updates to start converting the old classes over

[01:11:00]

wagnerrp:

the problem is just that the existing bindings are very much tied to the database

[01:11:10]

wagnerrp:

one recording is one 'recorded' entry

[01:11:16]

wagnerrp:

one video is one 'videometadata' entry

[01:11:24]

wagnerrp:

with your new schema, that simply wont do...

[01:12:35]

wagnerrp:

at that point, it became a question of how to map the new classes to multiple database tables with as little code as possible

[01:14:30]

sphery:

cool, glad you have a plan

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[01:44:45]

wagnerrp:

sphery: well this is odd... TBBT finished commflagging halfway through the recording

[01:46:38]

tgm4883:

Is there any ability when using the myth:// protocol to watch shows to mark a show as watched?

[01:46:48]

wagnerrp:

nope

[01:47:13]

wagnerrp:

you can tick it off manually in the database, or potentially make a services call in 0.25 to do so

[01:47:20]

wagnerrp:

but its not done automatically

[01:49:47]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, ok, sounds like a job for 0.25 then

[01:50:09]

wagnerrp:

well you can use the database at any time

[01:50:26]

wagnerrp:

im just saying that sounds like something iamlindoro may have added a services call for, for his ipad app

[01:50:41]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, true, but I'm of the mindset don't directly touch databases that aren't mine

[01:50:56]

wagnerrp:

and if not, it could be added fairly easily

[01:52:37]

tgm4883:

IMO, that should be something that is doable via the myth://, could probably get third party apps to stop pretending they are frontends

[01:53:30]

wagnerrp:

huh?

[01:53:32]

iamlindoro:

myth:// is only a file streaming protocol, not an API

[01:54:08]

wagnerrp:

and to be honest, its not really even anything

[01:54:08]

tgm4883:

true, I've not played with 0.25 and I had heard some other things

[01:54:17]

tgm4883:

or misinterpreted other things

[01:54:18]

wagnerrp:

the URI is parsed on the client end

[01:54:30]

wagnerrp:

and something other than the URI is used to query files from the backend

[01:54:33]

tgm4883:

likely the latter

[01:54:49]

wagnerrp:

myth:// has been around for several versions

[01:55:09]

wagnerrp:

and has existed for much longer than that before the URI was added to describe the file

[01:55:11]

tgm4883:

yea, I just was hearing of new functionality introduced to it in 0.25

[01:55:38]

tgm4883:

although it might have been something else that was introduced that was used in similar situations

[01:55:45]

wagnerrp:

i cant think off hand of any changes made in 0.25

[01:55:50]

iamlindoro:

he's thinking of Services

[01:56:00]

wagnerrp:

right, which is something completely independent

[01:56:06]

tgm4883:

any wiki page on that?

[01:56:08]

** tgm4883 looks **

[01:56:31]

wagnerrp:

the myth:// stuff is parsed locally on the client, which then uses the information in the URI to open a file transfer using the backend protocol

[01:56:46]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to the http/xml/json interface that is the new services api

[01:58:12]

tgm4883:

ok, so ideally 3rd party media devices could finish streaming a show via myth:// then use services to mark it as watched?

[01:58:27]

tgm4883:

as a basic functionality, I found the wiki page and it offers so much more

[01:58:51]

wagnerrp:

ideally, they would skip the backend protocol entirely, and use services for everything

[01:58:55]

wagnerrp:

including file streaming

[01:59:30]

tgm4883:

ah yes, I see that is available as well

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[02:04:03]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: The commflagging 1/4 res is only Beirdo's experimental, non-default version

[02:04:26]

wagnerrp:

its not default? i dont actually recall enabling it

[02:04:41]

iamlindoro:

Non-default, still marked as experimental

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sphery:

wagnerrp: hehe, maybe a decode error in libav crashed the player/mythcommflag, so it thought it was done?

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[02:48:14]

jedix:

I'm trying to figure out how to re-record something that expired

[02:48:19]

jedix:

season 5 episode 1

[02:48:29]

[R]:

there is a checkbox

[02:48:33]

[R]:

about rerecording expired stuff

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jedix:

how?

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[R]:

[07:48:29] [R] there is a checkbox

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jedix:

I went into previously recorded..

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[02:49:24]

jedix:

there's a way to enable everything, but I just want to get the one Big Bang Theory

[02:49:38]

[R]:

they reair those?

[02:49:41]

jedix:

i don't want to re-record every airing

[02:49:50]

wagnerrp:

only the latest season, only some of the episodes

[02:49:53]

jedix:

yeah, I think they run every day

[02:49:59]

[R]:

you think?

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jedix:

well they air the show every day, so I was hoping I could get ep1 again

[02:50:26]

[R]:

just search for what you want

[02:50:28]

[R]:

if you find it, hit record

[02:50:40]

wagnerrp:

older episodes have been picked up in syndication, but CBS only does one ep a week

[02:50:40]

jedix:

yeah, the re-airs just have a default text

[02:50:59]

[R]:

well if they are generic episodes, myth isn't gonna catch it

[02:51:27]

jedix:

ah, except it'll not record it due to the subs

[02:51:52]

jedix:

alright, thanks

[02:54:05]

sphery:

actually, MythTV always records generic episodes explicitly /because/ it doesn't know which one it is (and, therefore, doesn't know if you've seen it)

[02:54:39]

sphery:

jedix: in mythfrontend, go to Manage Recordings|Previously Recorded, then find the episode of TBBT you want to allow re-record then use SELECT or MENU or something to tell it to allow re-record

[02:56:21]

sphery:

(you have to tell mythtv to ignore generics if you don't want it to record them)

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v iamlindoro

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jedix:

sphery: thanks!

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map7:

I'm trying to setup my EPG on Mythtv 0.23 and both EIT & Shepherd (tv_grab_au) have errors, can someone help?

[03:26:45]

map7:

I can run shepherd manually and it receives the programs but mythfilldatabase --refresh-all does not collect them

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jedix:

the only way I see how to say "re-record" is to delete it from the previously recorded list

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jedix:

I need to find "Re-record watched"

[03:32:54]

jedix:

wherever that is

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[03:34:53]

map7:

jedix, what about if you go to past recordings -> edit schedule -> schedule options and tell it not to match duplicates

[03:36:19]

jedix:

well, it's just the expired one I want to re-record

[03:36:22]

jedix:

when it re-airs

[03:37:11]

jedix:

oh, it's already enabled

[03:37:12]

jedix:

sweet.

[03:37:15]

jedix:

I guess.

[03:37:23]

jedix:

now I just have to wait for the first ep to re-air

[03:37:27]

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[04:00:10]

sphery:

map7: you likely need to set up xmltvids

[04:00:34]

sphery:

otherwise shepherd won't work since mythfilldatabase won't know which mythtv channels correspond to shepherd channels

[04:01:21]

sphery:

jedix: there was a bug in 0.24-fixes that caused some shows to not show up as previously recorded, so it didn't offer you the opportunity to allow it to re-record in Previously Recorded

[04:01:43]

sphery:

you can always just delete the record if you don't feel like updating

[04:02:21]

sphery:

(and if you have most current 0.24-fixes, it will work--but you have to hit the right key to get the right option... try SELECT, INFO, and MENU... don't remember which)

[04:14:01]

wagnerrp:

wow... 'how to be a gentleman' got all of what, four episodes?

[04:14:15]

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[04:16:12]

wagnerrp:

in other news, CBS has announced the cancella^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpremiere of a new traves^H^H^H^H^H^Hcomedy starring rob schneider

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[04:39:28]

sphery:

You can do eet!

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[05:04:34]

map7:

sphery, I have setup the xmltvids, they were automatically setup by shepherd

[05:04:39]

map7:

I've checked them in mythweb

[05:05:28]

map7:

I just did a tv_grab_au --notimetest --output ~/.mythtv/farm2.xmltv and it downloaded the EPG into that file, but still will not load it when running mythfilldatabase

[05:06:10]

sphery:

map7: did you look at days other than today?

[05:06:14]

map7:

It's looking for farm2.xmltv, but comes up with the error message 'Error in 1:1: unexpected end of file

[05:06:21]

sphery:

also, you're not using EIT /and/ XMLTV on the same channels, right?

[05:06:28]

sphery:

(you can only use one or the other)

[05:06:43]

map7:

I've turned off EIT for all channels

[05:06:47]

sphery:

ok, good

[05:06:48]

map7:

through mythweb

[05:07:19]

map7:

I've checked other days and it doesn't show up anything

[05:07:23]

sphery:

so the Error in 1:1: unexpected end of file is when you try using mythfilldatabase --file or just with a normal mythfilldatabase run

[05:07:50]

map7:

just normal, i'll try the file option

[05:08:16]

sphery:

have you looked at farm2.xmltv to verify it's there (and that it's well-formed XML)?

[05:08:38]

sphery:

it sounds like mythfilldatabase is either getting garbage from shepherd or getting nothing from it

[05:09:25]

map7:

yes farm2.xmltv is there and it's valid xml

[05:09:33]

map7:

looks like forcing the file with source 1 worked

[05:09:49]

map7:

mythfilldatabase --file 1 ~/.mythtv/farm2.xmltv

[05:10:01]

sphery:

are you using a proxy or something?

[05:10:03]

map7:

so should I just put that into my cron now

[05:10:13]

map7:

no proxy

[05:10:18]

sphery:

no, better would be figuring out why mythfilldatabase can't download it

[05:10:32]

map7:

I'm on a slow connection

[05:10:36]

map7:

over 3G

[05:10:37]

sphery:

can you post a log file from running mythfilldatabase to http://pastebin.com/

[05:10:50]

sphery:

hmmm... that could be related

[05:10:50]

map7:

yep hold on

[05:11:08]

sphery:

maybe it times out because of latency or something

[05:11:30]

map7:

yeah it takes 45 minutes to get the EPG

[05:13:22]

map7:

http://pastie.org/2881638

[05:13:42]

map7:

hold on that was the --file log

[05:14:04]

sphery:

hehe, that would explain why it seemed to work :)

[05:14:42]

map7:

fixed, just reload

[05:14:52]

map7:

http://pastie.org/2881641

[05:16:21]

map7:

do you want me to set a debug level at all?

[05:16:55]

sphery:

nah, I was just wondering what all was in there--in case there was more interesting stuff besides what you had mentioned

[05:17:22]

map7:

see how it's looking for farm2.xmltv

[05:17:31]

map7:

I wonder if it's not setting the source?

[05:17:39]

sphery:

seems it's just the error you saw (which says character 1 on line 1 is EOF--meaning it's getting nothing)

[05:18:20]

sphery:

wait a minute...

[05:18:42]

sphery:

~/.mythtv/<sourcename>.xmltv is supposed to be the XMLTV configuration file--not the XMLTV output

[05:18:59]

sphery:

I think you've overwritten your configuration file with listings?

[05:19:18]

map7:

I checked beforehand and there was no farm2.xmltv file there

[05:19:35]

map7:

so then I ran tv_grab_au and forced it to create one

[05:19:49]

sphery:

have you run mythfilldatabase --manual to configure it?

[05:20:24]

map7:

not for a long long time

[05:20:47]

sphery:

that's what's supposed to create the .xmltv config file

[05:21:00]

map7:

ok, should I run that now?

[05:21:33]

sphery:

it's up to you...

[05:21:49]

sphery:

it may be what's wrong, but you now have a workaround you could use

[05:22:07]

sphery:

and since it's a 45min download to find out (and may be expensive depending on your data plan...)

[05:22:28]

sphery:

or you may want to wait and ask someone who actually uses shepherd/xmltv

[05:22:45]

map7:

I'll just backup the farm2.xmltv file and give it go

[05:23:23]

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[05:23:29]

map7:

I moved the farm2.xmltv to farm2.xmltv.bak

[05:23:29]

sphery:

good luck

[05:23:39]

map7:

then ran mythfilldatabase --manual and it didn't create it

[05:24:11]

map7:

http://pastie.org/2881664

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[05:25:30]

map7:

I've even tried deleting the source and all my tv cards (4) and starting again, hence why it's called farm2 instead of farm now

[05:28:19]

map7:

wouldn't my config be config.xml

[05:28:41]

sphery:

config.xml is the MythTV database/backend configuration file

[05:29:00]

sphery:

the ~/.mythtv/*.xmltv files are XMLTV configuration files for MythTV video sources

[05:30:30]

sphery:

what do you get from: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e 'SELECT sourceid, name, xmltvgrabber, useeit, configpath FROM videosource;'

[05:32:59]

map7:

[05:33:05]

wagnerrp:

WTF...

[05:33:19]

wagnerrp:

oh... dual dual cores

[05:33:39]

wagnerrp:

guy has a dual core processor, and assigns three cores to his VM

[05:34:03]

sphery:

ttbomk, configpath shouldn't be null... but then again, shepherd does some, er, unusual things

[05:34:03]

[R]:

dueling dual cores?

[05:34:16]

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[05:34:19]

sphery:

you'll probably need to find some shepherd user to help

[05:34:20]

sphery:

sorry

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[05:34:47]

map7:

sphery, you have been a great help, thank you. I have a work around now which I can use in the meantime

[05:34:55]

sphery:

wagnerrp: not dual cores and dual fake cores?

[05:35:05]

sphery:

(SMT, er, hyperthreading)

[05:36:17]

sphery:

(oh, btw, configpath is null for Schedules Direct users--like me--but I'm pretty sure it should be there for any xmltv user... unless that's another "usual" thing that shepherd does)

[05:37:12]

wagnerrp:

dual socket, dual processor

[05:38:01]

sphery:

cool

[05:38:28]

map7:

sphery this machine always has a lot of weird stuff going on, I think we are pushing mythtv a bit too far

[05:40:51]

map7:

10 diskless frontends, a few notebook frontends all running off the one beast with 2xdual tuners + 1 sat card, running two screens at 1920x1080, all running in the bush with hardly any internet

[05:41:38]

sphery:

and with broadcasters who don't understand how to use a broadcast schedule

[05:41:53]

map7:

yep

[05:42:16]

map7:

I would use the EIT if it was any good

[05:42:41]

map7:

it still seems flaky and nothing is categorised properly

[06:03:10]

wagnerrp:

10 frontends?

[06:04:50]

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[06:13:08]

map7:

wagnerrp, yeah 10 diskless frontends

[06:13:37]

map7:

it's not my house

[06:17:52]

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[06:17:59]

wagnerrp:

the only problem i can see with 10 frontends is IO contention over NFS

[06:18:22]

wagnerrp:

if theyre all hitting the one filesystem at the same time...

[06:18:55]

wagnerrp:

or if theyre all actively playing back at the same time, of course

[06:18:56]

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[06:19:59]

Rubin:

nfs does ok for concurrent reading. but its murder to write concurrently because it has to flush on every write

[06:20:02]

[R]:

thats why you do that thing

[06:20:06]

[R]:

like cluster nfs or whatever

[06:20:38]

wagnerrp:

Rubin: it does as many concurrent accesses as you have pre-forked daemons

[06:20:54]

wagnerrp:

if youre running something low, like 4

[06:21:04]

wagnerrp:

you could have problems with 10 frontends trying to boot at the same time

[06:21:43]

Rubin:

wont half of them jsut block till theres time available?

[06:22:17]

wagnerrp:

yes, but lets say youve got four frontends already up, in mythtv, streaming recordings over nfs

[06:22:34]

wagnerrp:

those will take the four daemons, and the other NFS clients starve until the first four are done

[06:22:45]

Rubin:

easy enough to up the value

[06:22:58]

wagnerrp:

right, its just something one needs to be aware of

[06:23:09]

Rubin:

we serve hundreds of hosts off ancient hardware via nfs without much trouble unless theres serious writing going on

[06:23:33]

Rubin:

(not mythtv, just home directories n such)

[06:24:37]

[R]:

haha

[06:24:41]

[R]:

this guy just said 'beeta'

[06:24:43]

[R]:

instead of beta

[06:24:46]

[R]:

crazy brits

[06:24:53]

wagnerrp:

we serve hundreds of hosts off some relatively modern hardware (dual Core2 Xeon)

[06:25:09]

wagnerrp:

works fine until someone decides to start up a new simulation

[06:25:26]

wagnerrp:

the whole system is hosed while those nodes are doing their startup IO

[06:25:47]

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[06:26:28]

wagnerrp:

lack of forethought when initially designing the system

[06:26:36]

wagnerrp:

causing all sorts of complications after the fact

[06:29:11]

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[06:43:04]

johnsu01:

any ideas why tmdb.py might work from the command line but say no results found when run from myth?

[06:43:16]

johnsu01:

I'm literally copying the command line out of the frontend log and running it, same options and all

[06:44:22]

johnsu01:

tv metadata is updated okay

[06:44:58]

wagnerrp:

what's the command, specifically?

[06:45:04]

johnsu01:

2011-11–18 01:44:39.693 Running Grabber: /usr/share/mythtv/metadata/Movie/tmdb.py -l en -M ENRON

[06:45:17]

johnsu01:

if I run that from the shell, I get results

[06:45:25]

johnsu01:

but myth says: 2011-11–18 01:44:39.698 No results found for ENRON 0 0

[06:45:55]

wagnerrp:

no results after five milliseconds?

[06:46:09]

johnsu01:

impatient software this is :)

[06:46:12]

wagnerrp:

it shouldnt be returning that fast

[06:46:19]

[R]:

wagnerrp: that's what she said

[06:47:06]

wagnerrp:

im betting something wrong with the environment that is causing the script to fail outright

[06:47:22]

wagnerrp:

i mean it should take more than five milliseconds to init the python interpreter

[06:47:55]

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[06:48:18]

johnsu01:

I guess I should crank up the logging and see if there is anything interesting

[06:48:49]

wagnerrp:

another possible issue, the title is too far off from the response

[06:49:05]

wagnerrp:

so mythtv's internal levenshtein filter is omitting it

[06:49:38]

wagnerrp:

im not entirely certain the implementation in mythvideo

[06:49:47]

wagnerrp:

but the result is returning a subtitle you did not search for

[06:50:25]

johnsu01:

yeah.. but I don't think it's worked for any movies recently

[06:50:35]

johnsu01:

let me see what happens with w on one where it does have data saved

[06:51:06]

johnsu01:

I get the same immediate no result

[06:51:07]

johnsu01:

2011-11–18 01:50:45.513 Running Grabber: /usr/share/mythtv/metadata/Movie/tmdb.py -l en -D 8072

[06:51:24]

johnsu01:

this is for one that it successfully fetched sometime in the past

[06:52:26]

wagnerrp:

have you reinstalled mythtv at any point recently?

[06:52:38]

johnsu01:

not for quite a while

[06:52:51]

johnsu01:

years

[06:53:12]

wagnerrp:

years... what version are you running?

[06:53:30]

wagnerrp:

its at least 0.23 based off that script, which means may 2010

[06:53:38]

johnsu01:

I mean since an actual reinstall — I update weekly from debian

[06:54:10]

johnsu01:

which is currently 0.24.1+fixes20111029

[06:54:47]

johnsu01:

I wonder if it's the same problem that caused the weather scripts to stop working

[06:54:58]

johnsu01:

some general python execution issue

[06:55:52]

johnsu01:

trying with more logging

[06:57:43]

johnsu01:

oh god lulz

[06:57:58]

johnsu01:

it is working after a frontend restart

[06:58:29]

johnsu01:

which makes no sense because this hasn't been working for months

[06:58:44]

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[07:02:05]

wagnerrp:

gotta love those files that magically fix themselves

[07:02:14]

wagnerrp:

good luck next time you have an error.. :)

[07:04:38]

johnsu01:

I am happy and yet sad at the same time

[07:07:23]

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[08:10:43]

trumee:

is there any tv which has open internet features?

[08:11:02]

[R]:

which means...?

[08:11:30]

trumee:

smart tv/internet enabled tv which supports 3rd party firmware

[08:11:38]

[R]:

i've never heard of anyh

[08:12:37]

dekarl-off-to-wo:

3rd party firmware, as in apps?

[08:12:42]

trumee:

leaning towards Sony KDL 40CX523 which has a walled garden

[08:12:46]

dekarl-off-to-wo is now known as dekarl

[08:13:54]

trumee:

apps or something which could expose the OS for tinkering

[08:15:21]

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[08:15:40]

dekarl:

I heard of such stuff http://www.samsung.com/us/appstore/support but I have no idea if its anything worthy

[08:18:58]

trumee:

dekarl, thanks

[08:26:33]

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[08:27:11]

justinh:

yeah you can buy an app developer kit for like $$$$$$$$$$$, and then have your own TV app. Teh awesomes!

[08:27:28]

justinh:

oh wait. that's not awesome at all

[08:27:48]

justinh:

we have a Sony net connected TV at work. It's pretty damn spiffy actually

[08:28:22]

justinh:

does a really good job of making internet-based video look watchable

[08:28:37]

justinh:

software renderers could use some of those tricks

[08:29:23]

justinh:

but if you think you're ever going to get near a TV's kernel.... LOL

[08:29:56]

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[08:31:29]

justinh:

what? Sony tellies run Android?

[08:32:27]

trumee:

justinh, any idea whether youtube app on sony lets you subscribe to a channel?

[08:33:29]

justinh:

never played that much with it. probably though

[08:33:38]

justinh:

download the manual

[08:34:00]

justinh:

I always download the manual & read it before I buy anything techy nowadays

[08:36:09]

justinh:

wonder if anyone has ever sideloaded an app onto a TV

[08:36:13]

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[08:37:27]

justinh:

good god. MythTV API. Android. Native mythfrontend on your telly! :-O

[08:38:17]

justinh:

HAHAHAHA you *can* sideload apps onto a googletv

[08:43:57]

justinh:

can't help but wonder what Sony would make of a native mythfrontend for their TVs though

[08:44:11]

justinh:

I mean, if they allowed it...

[08:47:27]

laga:

justinh: man, my new philipps TV is so slow :/ but the net tv stuff is still nice

[08:48:14]

justinh:

this sony one is S P I F F Y

[08:48:29]

justinh:

I mean really nice. My eyes almost popped out

[08:49:06]

justinh:

I have one or two criticisms of its menu system – but that's more down to me not knowing my way around the remote well enough yet

[08:49:31]

justinh:

the UI looks great, and is swishy fast

[08:50:21]

justinh:

I don't think I'd ever buy anything by Philips. I almost did once. A white 32" CRT TV

[08:51:41]

justinh:

"Time since last reset.. 19 hours" SHIP IT! SHIP IT NOW!

[08:57:08]

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[09:27:53]

dekarl:

I hope I got the channel collapsing via callsign and channel id right on the users list...

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[10:23:13]

justinh:

heh. http://xkcd.com/979/

[10:23:22]

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[10:23:36]

laga:

justinh: heh

[10:23:44]

laga:

justinh: even worse when you just find our own postings

[10:25:25]

justinh:

pmsl

[10:25:48]

justinh:

yeah I've bumped into that

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[14:23:34]

justinh:

gawd. that's the 2nd time I've commented on El Reg now

[14:25:31]

jduggan:

slipperty slope justinh

[14:25:34]

jduggan:

-t

[14:25:57]

justinh:

that too

[14:26:47]

justinh:

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/11/18/qanda_w . . . _settop_box/

[14:27:47]

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[14:28:56]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/remote.png

[14:29:00]

iamlindoro:

doop dee doooo

[14:30:07]

sid3windr:

aye pad?

[14:30:20]

iamlindoro:

aye, pad

[14:30:50]

justinh:

want one, but haven't got Â£600? Don't bother with any of the droid junk & just do without :D

[14:31:20]

justinh:

iamlindoro: so when are you writing a linux client? ;-)

[14:32:04]

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[14:32:05]

iamlindoro:

when linux has a consistent UI and single package distribution method

[14:32:14]

justinh:

I really hate to say this, being that I've always been the most vehement mythfrontend supporter – but I can honestly see it going bonk eventually

[14:33:41]

iamlindoro:

I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon, but it's definitely not moving forward at all with next to nobody doing anything on the UI

[14:34:24]

justinh:

and with people insisting on idiotic changes taking it backwards (at the themer's discretion)

[14:35:45]

justinh:

anyway, that is a mighty fine looking app iamlindoro

[14:35:49]

iamlindoro:

anyhoo, that's the "normal playback" remote-- press "Jump to" to get a list of titles and chapters you can select from, likewise audio and subtitle tracks, picture controls and audio syn under advanced, timeline is draggable for arbitrary scrubbing of the playback, and you can slide the whole bottom OSD up to reveal details about the running prgram and the rest of the remote

[14:36:06]

iamlindoro:

justinh: Thanks, you ain't see nothing yet ;)

[14:36:20]

iamlindoro:

I think remote only apps are boring

[14:36:22]

justinh:

iamlindoro: was all this relatively easy to do – i.e. just bolting stuff on around a player library?

[14:37:16]

iamlindoro:

Well I've been at it a few months-- nothing was insanely hard-- the hardest part has definitely been writing a cocoa library from scratch to interact with the Services API... not to mention a fair hunk of the API itself

[14:37:39]

justinh:

yeah, well there'd have to have been that aspect. silly me

[14:38:16]

justinh:

I just figured out today that those SOny net TVs are android-ish – i.e. GoogleTV. Aka load your own apps on...

[14:38:24]

iamlindoro:

So at this point there's the 50% of the time I spend on it that's polish and rework, and the 50% that's keeping up with the new Services stuff

[14:38:29]

justinh:

aka add the MythTV API & voila!

[14:39:05]

iamlindoro:

The hardest part has been breaking myself of the traditional UI thoughts and thinking "how would I interact with this if it was a physical object"

[14:39:16]

justinh:

imagine, a native frontend running on yer teevee! assuming it'll be able to do arbitrary seeking etc. I dunno what android is like to program audio/video for

[14:40:00]

iamlindoro:

so an onscreen remote under normal circumstances is bad, but a touchable bar that allows you to go anywhere you want can replace a dozen buttons

[14:40:04]

justinh:

iamlindoro: yeah, well that'd totally own. But I'm not shelling out for an iPad. It'd be nice, but we don't have enough disposable anymore

[14:40:34]

iamlindoro:

Which we all naturally intuit-- every time I've seen one of those godawful android of iOS remots with an onscreen remote, it's always felt "wrong"

[14:40:50]

iamlindoro:

justinh: I'm not suggesting anyone do so :)

[14:41:03]

justinh:

mind, if somebody were to write an android app the same way.. maybe with a kindle fire.. that's more my price range

[14:41:14]

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[14:41:33]

justinh:

though we have a hard enough time keeping the *ordinary* remote away from the toddler boy

[14:41:35]

iamlindoro:

kindle fire is only the apps Amazon decides are worth publishing

[14:41:45]

iamlindoro:

with no obvious submission process

[14:41:47]

justinh:

iamlindoro: apart from those you can sideload

[14:41:59]

iamlindoro:

meaning a jailbreak?

[14:42:07]

justinh:

no, it's not locked. allegedly

[14:42:22]

iamlindoro:

hmm, that's not what I understood from a friend who got one, but he might be clueless

[14:42:30]

justinh:

easy to do, according to a howto I read yesterday

[14:42:42]

justinh:

hell you can even sideload droid apps onto a Sony TV

[14:42:58]

iamlindoro:

anyway, Android is just way too fractious at the moment-- dozens of interaction paradigms, resolutions, OS versions, etc.

[14:42:59]

justinh:

(via dropbox apparently). LOL

[14:43:18]

iamlindoro:

not to mention needing to reinvent the Services API library wheel

[14:43:18]

Peitolm:

iamlindoro: that remote app looks nice,

[14:43:26]

iamlindoro:

It's not a remote app :)

[14:43:31]

iamlindoro:

it's an app which has a remote :)

[14:43:49]

** iamlindoro heads off to get ready for work **

[14:43:51]

justinh:

iamlindoro: I'm thinking about having a go doing one, but it'd only be for me, by me. if anybody likes it, fair goes.. but if not, screw em

[14:43:52]

Peitolm:

got any more information on it?

[14:44:21]

** Peitolm is working on a perl rss podcaster for mythtv 0.25, so mythtv -> itunes -> ipad **

[14:44:49]

jedix:

can we remove the itunes part?

[14:44:50]

justinh:

Peitolm: what iamlindoro is doing will likely blow that all away for those using it around the house

[14:44:59]

jedix:

...and the ipad part?

[14:45:22]

justinh:

Peitolm: and maybe even mobile, if myth ever gets on the fly transcoding

[14:45:26]

Peitolm:

jedix yes, it's just an rss podcaster, but it'll be itune compatible

[14:45:44]

justinh:

compatible meaning a bastardised mangled xml format ;-)

[14:45:49]

Peitolm:

around the house, i can just fire up a html5video modifyed details play

[14:45:55]

Peitolm:

er

[14:45:58]

jedix:

ah, so you add rss to itunes? sorry but I have almsot zero knowledge of that software

[14:46:00]

Peitolm:

and watch it that way

[14:46:29]

justinh:

html5 video players do timestretch? and arbitrary skipping?

[14:46:34]

justinh:

thought not

[14:46:49]

Peitolm:

justinh: i alrady have rss (without recordings) working to netnewswire

[14:47:00]

Peitolm:

justinh: arbtrary skipping to loction, i believe so

[14:47:08]

justinh:

any 3rd party player app I go for has to have at *least* arbitrary skipping

[14:47:19]

Peitolm:

it won't be 3rd party

[14:47:26]

redxine:

I've yet to figure out why it's beneficial to be able to timestretch a youtube video. Their HTML5 player does it.

[14:47:41]

justinh:

XBMC still doesn't AFAIK. Absolute skipping yes, but not arbitrary

[14:47:46]

Peitolm:

a friend of mine has it working at the moment, i did, (until i upgraded to dev)

[14:48:08]

Peitolm:

can you just define arbitrary skipping? i thought you meant 'skip to this point on the time line'

[14:48:17]

justinh:

no, I mean skip X minutes

[14:48:20]

justinh:

or X seconds

[14:48:24]

justinh:

like mythfrontend can

[14:48:24]

jedix:

what do you mean absolute or arbitrary?

[14:48:42]

justinh:

by absolute I mean going to 1:00:05

[14:48:56]

justinh:

by arbitrary I meant relative. duh

[14:48:57]

jedix:

arbitrary = ff key like stuff?

[14:49:03]

Peitolm:

ah, i know the controls in ios can scrub at various speeds, but i don't know if they can do ff 10min

[14:49:47]

justinh:

mind, for practical purposes if I wrote a frontend I'd likely not miss playback profiles

[14:50:10]

justinh:

like X recordings at 1.5x speed by default, skip amounts set to this or that...

[14:50:15]

jedix:

I use xbmc to watch my myth stuff

[14:50:31]

justinh:

lots of people do, and they don't seem to mind the one big list (tm)

[14:50:39]

Peitolm:

i've heard of people who watch at a faster rate than realtime

[14:50:41]

jedix:

one big list?

[14:50:50]

justinh:

I'd want stuff grouped together by shows or categories

[14:50:54]

jedix:

it does that

[14:51:07]

justinh:

the mythbox plugin .. you get a massively long list

[14:51:21]

jedix:

not in the one I have

[14:51:24]

justinh:

and it can't do skipping, or time compressing

[14:51:27]

jedix:

I have tv shows, movies, etc

[14:51:28]

jedix:

and in there

[14:51:39]

justinh:

yeah an in tv shows.. one big list of everything

[14:51:41]

jedix:

I get the groups of tv shows

[14:51:47]

jedix:

no man

[14:51:57]

justinh:

it totally blew last time I tried it

[14:51:57]

jedix:

every group is in its own list

[14:52:00]

justinh:

when it even worked

[14:52:12]

jedix:

and it uses the flagged commercial skips too

[14:52:29]

justinh:

but can you say, press 4 then another button & have it skip 4 minutes?

[14:52:34]

jedix:

I find it doesn't look as good though

[14:52:51]

jedix:

I dunno the keys well enough to do that

[14:53:01]

jedix:

I use a full kb and the layout is totally different

[14:53:22]

jedix:

you can change the amount the skip occurs, but it's not a menu item.. you have to edit xml

[14:53:28]

jedix:

I gave up and just use what is preset

[14:53:32]

justinh:

jesus

[14:53:40]

Peitolm:

justinh: on the fly transcoding, — stream.pl?

[14:53:50]

justinh:

Peitolm: no. it doesn't exist yet

[14:53:59]

justinh:

not properly

[14:54:00]

jedix:

it has gotten a lot better in recent times

[14:54:02]

justinh:

not built-in

[14:54:04]

jedix:

I'm happy using it

[14:54:35]

justinh:

I've tried XBMC on my laptop & found it the most crashy thing I've ever used. I blame the sucky Intel gfx for that

[14:55:03]

jedix:

the stable releases are really stable

[14:55:04]

Peitolm:

stream.pl was working in 0.24-fixes

[14:55:13]

jedix:

much more than mythtv 0.23

[14:55:19]

justinh:

jedix: no they're not. not on my laptop

[14:55:20]

jedix:

I have not used 0.24 as much to comment

[14:55:34]

justinh:

never seen 0.24 segfault on my frontend

[14:55:53]

jedix:

I've seen 0.24 crash the backend with bad OTA data

[14:55:58]

jedix:

ie: bad reception

[14:56:10]

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[14:56:21]

jedix:

0.22 and 0.23 weren't that stable imo

[14:57:13]

justinh:

my 0.24 backend didn't even fall over with the aerial unplugged – and amazingly when I got the aerial connected again an in-progress recording – 0Bytes so far with about 15 mins left – just started making the file bigger & it worked!

[14:57:23]

justinh:

well for you maybe. and for me, XBMC sucks

[14:57:39]

justinh:

but I keep trying it. always attempting to keep an open mind

[14:58:40]

jedix:

what os are you running?

[14:58:52]

justinh:

on my laptop? windows XP

[14:58:59]

jedix:

there might be differences in our setup as to why we see such a different response

[14:59:05]

justinh:

but seriously, the intel graphics suck to bits

[14:59:16]

jedix:

so all my systems are linux based

[14:59:21]

jedix:

what intel graphics?

[14:59:27]

justinh:

my backend runs ubuntu something or other

[14:59:33]

justinh:

jedix: it doesn't matter. they're all shite

[14:59:41]

jedix:

nah, the new ones are actually alright

[14:59:47]

jedix:

the sandy bridge stuff

[14:59:54]

jedix:

hd 3000, etc

[14:59:56]

justinh:

not in linux they ain't I bet

[15:00:02]

jedix:

yeah, they're alright now

[15:00:15]

justinh:

anyway, GMA something or other. NEVER BUYING INTEL AGAIN

[15:00:18]

justinh:

NEVER

[15:00:18]

redxine:

Intel has been very good about getting their drivers into the kernel.

[15:00:33]

justinh:

like I'm never buying anything with an ATI badge again either

[15:00:38]

redxine:

Hence why my favourite laptop always worked out of the box.

[15:00:39]

jedix:

intel graphics or intel period?

[15:01:00]

justinh:

intel graphics

[15:01:05]

jedix:

understandable

[15:01:11]

justinh:

my next laptop will have nvidia

[15:01:18]

jedix:

I had a really bad experience with an i830 based laptop

[15:01:27]

jedix:

but the sandy bridge stuff is really quite good

[15:01:30]

sid3windr:

gma500 still is a disaster

[15:01:40]

jedix:

nvidia is the sad effect of sucking all your power

[15:01:40]

justinh:

my frontend is intel-based too – which likely means XBMC would totally blow on it too

[15:01:44]

redxine:

Had nothing but trouble with the nvidia proprietary drivers :/

[15:01:58]

jedix:

justinh: yeah, unless it's really new

[15:01:58]

justinh:

had nothing but success with nvidia drivers :)

[15:02:02]

justinh:

I am a winner :-)

[15:02:08]

jedix:

nvidia do thier drivers well

[15:02:09]

redxine:

particularly involving HDMI and multi head displays

[15:02:16]

jedix:

but the cards suck the power down fast

[15:02:18]

redxine:

except when they don't work ><

[15:02:32]

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[15:03:37]

redxine:

I tried it the past weekend... a friend had an HP laptop he wanted to put Linux back on. After finally getting the drivers on, the HDMI output never worked, so he ditched it.

[15:04:18]

justinh:

I wouldn't want to try multihead in linux

[15:04:19]

justinh:

jesus

[15:04:23]

justinh:

X is insane

[15:04:44]

redxine:

It works when the drivers play nice with whatever gnome/KDE/whatever uses to configure it...

[15:05:02]

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[15:05:11]

redxine:

but nvidia decided to keep xorg.conf for some reason and use their own control panel

[15:05:55]

redxine:

the ATI in my desktop does dual head for breakfast. x3

[15:06:27]

justinh:

great, if you at least get Xv

[15:06:45]

justinh:

or if opengl video rendering doesn't turn to crap

[15:06:59]

jedix:

multihead is for noobs.

[15:07:09]

redxine:

And it doesn't. I've only had that happen when the nvidia drivers crap out

[15:07:10]

jedix:

we're working on two oses sharing the same head

[15:07:20]

jedix:

it's a bit brutal.

[15:07:22]

redxine:

it ends up burning a white NVidia logo into the monitor when it crashes

[15:07:36]

redxine:

jedix: You mean synergy?

[15:07:48]

justinh:

well looks like it's horses for courses then

[15:07:51]

justinh:

to each their own

[15:07:54]

redxine:

well... reverse synergy

[15:08:03]

jedix:

something like that

[15:08:19]

justinh:

I'll keep trying other apps out of curiosity – and when on the 1st time I use them it doesn't crash or hard-lock my machine it'll get a chance

[15:08:39]

redxine:

Applying your logic I should have never tried myth x3

[15:08:44]

redxine:

but I'm a sucker for challenges.

[15:08:58]

justinh:

you think getting mythtv working was a walk in the park for me?

[15:09:12]

jedix:

that depends

[15:09:16]

jedix:

on which park.

[15:09:28]

justinh:

hahaha. I had to get the bloody tuner going first. kernel patch. bear in mind I'd never compiled a kernel in my life. I'd been using linux for about 2 hours

[15:09:43]

redxine:

if it's the one on wall street then no way :P

[15:09:46]

justinh:

after that everything was pretty easy

[15:10:00]

justinh:

mythtv – can't really say I've had any problems to write home about

[15:10:11]

justinh:

lirc, the underlying OS... oh gawd

[15:10:15]

justinh:

but mythtv? nah

[15:10:42]

justinh:

apart from when I used minimyth & one day after upgrading I found it wouldn't play bbc recordings without major stuttering

[15:11:07]

justinh:

solved that one by putting the Epia board in the bin (ebay)

[15:11:19]

jedix:

epia board?

[15:12:25]

jedix:

mini itx?

[15:12:27]

jedix:

eep

[15:12:41]

jedix:

a via chip?

[15:12:44]

jedix:

oh man

[15:13:30]

justinh:

it was like something relying on VDPAU

[15:13:46]

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[15:13:46]

justinh:

the minute something came along it couldn't deal with... UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[15:14:11]

justinh:

Oh well, El Reg comment problem solved. It wasn't approved (!)

[15:14:58]

justinh:

and er.. was it totally beyond XBMC developers to allow its use on NX or something without hardware GL, just for testing?

[15:15:04]

justinh:

grr

[15:15:45]

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[15:25:23]

redxine:

Any particular reason that mythfrontend can't play ogg audio on a macintosh?

[15:27:10]

redxine:

it's a bit problematic seeing that the backend rips audio into ogg...

[15:30:24]

justinh:

heh somebody uses the cd ripping still?

[15:31:05]

justinh:

I only use mythmusic in anger these days. really lament that it hasn't been ported to mythui yet

[15:31:13]

redxine:

Yes. Believe it or not, not ALL of my music library comes from Jamendo or a subscription service.

[15:31:32]

squidly:

no most of mine comes form pandora! :P

[15:31:40]

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[15:31:52]

squidly:

I would love to get Pandor in to mythmusic or something like that

[15:32:00]

redxine:

That thing with no linux client? ><

[15:32:23]

justinh:

redxine: no, I mean mythmusic.. for ripping CDs..

[15:32:44]

justinh:

mind, I did all of mine in bulk – had about 4 machines on the go

[15:33:06]

redxine:

I'm still in the process, and it's not doing much good that this macintosh can't play it.

[15:33:28]

justinh:

maybe it wasn't built with ogg support

[15:33:32]

redxine:

I mean sure, it gives me another reason against the excuse for an operating system....

[15:33:39]

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[15:33:53]

justinh:

you could have a linux client not capable of playing ogg too

[15:34:08]

redxine:

Oh no, it's working fine.

[15:34:25]

redxine:

That makes sense – compile in mp3, the codec with royalites, but not the free implementation ><

[15:34:44]

justinh:

there are no royalties for mp3 on linux

[15:34:51]

justinh:

or anything else using libmp3lame

[15:35:32]

redxine:

no, but it's still not a free codec.

[15:35:35]

justinh:

I store everything in FLAC anyway. disk space is cheap

[15:35:54]

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[15:36:04]

redxine:

Not anymore haha. El Reg reported a few days ago that disc prices just went higher than flash.

[15:36:16]

Scopeuk is now known as Scopeuk-AFK

[15:36:20]

justinh:

enterprise drives did

[15:36:36]

redxine:

HEH..... What?

[15:36:38]

redxine:

"We are deeply, deeply sorry to say that due to licensing constraints, we can no longer allow access to Pandora for listeners located outside of the U.S."

[15:36:57]

justinh:

some of the crap houses like 7dayshop.com are still selling external drives pretty cheap

[15:37:11]

justinh:

2.5" 750GB yesterday for about Â£50 or something

[15:37:13]

dekarl-too:

redxine: when the programmes on AFN overlap (start 06:00 running 61 minutes, next program start 07:00) what is the better solution. Cutting the one minute off at the end (but AFN put it there) or cutting of a minute at the later programme?

[15:38:05]

redxine:

I haven't noticed that problem... but It depends on the programme. If it isn't news then there really isn't anything but adverts in the last minute of the program anyways.

[15:38:24]

dekarl-too:

as they make a distinction between most programs starting/ending in 15 minute chunks I'm favoring the to trusting the 61 minutes runtime more then start of the next program on top of the houer

[15:38:30]

justinh:

anyway, you know what we talked about earlier – the on the fly transcoding? It's coming. With adaptive streaming etc too. And with the capacity to store the transcoded file so it only need be done once. Etc

[15:38:50]

dekarl-too:

just wondering as the biggest overlap was 9 minutes

[15:39:12]

justinh:

dekarl-too: MOARTUNRZ

[15:39:26]

redxine:

They'll usually start pretty promptly. I've never had a recorded programme not start at the right time. It's always exactly as the show starts.

[15:39:32]

redxine:

Even with my 30 second long channel change script lol

[15:39:52]

justinh:

30 second long? OW

[15:40:11]

redxine:

justinh – unfortunately thanks to the wonder that is PowerVu, it's not possible.

[15:40:36]

dekarl-too:

justinh: how does that solve it when the guide gets cut to ending on top of the hour instead of 9 minutes later? you'll miss some programming even with 5 minute postroll

[15:40:55]

justinh:

MOARPADDING in conjuction with MOARTUNRZ

[15:41:11]

redxine:

These receivers are sad. They weren't factory provisioned to accept typing a number on the remote as changing the channel. So it's a few extra key presses.

[15:41:17]

dekarl-too:

lol, that lead to me padding 45 minutes for one of the series already...

[15:41:21]

justinh:

I bloody HATE product names with 'view' spelled like that

[15:41:27]

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[15:41:32]

justinh:

my employer insists on naming our stuff that way too

[15:41:39]

redxine:

HAHA x3

[15:41:48]

justinh:

ThisVU ThatVU

[15:41:52]

redxine:

I guess it appeals to the... less... literate? x3

[15:41:54]

justinh:

TitForTatVU

[15:42:08]

justinh:

CrapVU

[15:42:14]

redxine:

BLame Scientific Atlanta

[15:42:19]

redxine:

or it's Cisco now actually...

[15:42:44]

dekarl-too:

Objects in the RearVU mirror appear closer than they are :)

[15:42:46]

justinh:

the 'V' in the logo is very stylised. When certain people have resigned, their leaving card said "Sorry you're leaVing" with the same V from the logo

[15:43:07]

redxine:

This V is rather boring....

[15:43:18]

justinh:

which said it all really – the reason they were leaving being the product name with VU in its title

[15:43:37]

redxine:

in fact, if they spelled it out PowerView, it would actually line up with the "Satellite Receiver D9835" subtitle

[15:43:41]

redxine:

quite nicely

[15:44:05]

redxine:

dekarl-too – do you have an AFN decoder?

[15:44:44]

dekarl-too:

If I had one I could just look at one of the overlaps and see what really happens on air :)

[15:45:33]

redxine:

haha. Give me an example timeslot and I'll set it to record.

[15:46:27]

jedix:

did you guys see this? http://xbmc.org/natethomas/2011/11/01/the-usb . . . -the-future/

[15:46:50]

justinh:

jedix: yes. yawn

[15:46:58]

dekarl-too:

redxine: ok, I'll get one once I'm home. (have disabled the warning as it was spamming the logs)

[15:47:05]

jedix:

I really like the idea of getting rid of remotes

[15:47:13]

justinh:

so did I. Hence my universal remote

[15:47:27]

justinh:

<3 my OFA-7555

[15:47:44]

justinh:

HATED my Harmony 515. HATED

[15:47:52]

redxine:

this USB TT receiver has caused one to many kernel panics. Looks like I'll be digging in my parts bin for a DB25 connector.

[15:48:16]

justinh:

the buttons wore out too quickly, it was too slow & it ate batteries

[15:48:56]

justinh:

yeah. the buttons wore out. on a $50 remote

[15:49:01]

redxine:

I have to double press buttons on the remote because they don't respond at all.

[15:49:51]

redxine:

THAT'D be interesting. A kinect driven remote.

[15:50:13]

redxine:

I don't see people talking to their tele's any time soon though. I could see that becoming problematic.

[15:50:18]

dekarl-too:

would be cool if the iPad remote could tell the backend to stream to any DLNA display, like the TV in http://www.reghardware.com/2011/11/18/qanda_w . . . _settop_box/ basically a no-frontend-frontend :)

[15:50:34]

justinh:

redxine: you see a problem with talking to a TV but not dancing to control it? LOL

[15:50:46]

justinh:

considering DLNA doesn't really allow seeking.. er...

[15:50:50]

redxine:

x3 I mean to say most people just sit on their couch anyways to watch it

[15:51:05]

redxine:

but the audio from the TV could cause inadvertent things to happen

[15:51:21]

redxine:

Microsoft has this vision of everyone talking to their computers to do EVERYTHING.

[15:51:40]

justinh:

redxine: my dad's car speech recognition works pretty well even when the radio is on

[15:52:03]

redxine:

I can see it now.

[15:52:21]

clever:

ive never seen it work right, you try to do 'call justin' and it starts to call towing assistance, lol

[15:52:22]

redxine:

â™«Oh baby I'm gonna turn you on â™« (TV flips off)

[15:52:42]

justinh:

I'm going to downvote that reg article cos they didn't allow my comment

[15:53:42]

justinh:

Oh Wow. The Trimslice. yet another damn FUGLY fly-powered player thing

[15:53:42]

redxine:

Comments on there are still mystical to me. I keep forgetting that I commented on it to care to reply any more.

[15:54:34]

justinh:

holy crap. $279 for one of those trimslice things? LOL

[15:54:42]

justinh:

oops.. or $319

[15:55:16]

redxine:

Hrm... ARM?

[15:55:32]

justinh:

same hardware as the boxee load of crap I think

[15:55:35]

redxine:

you know it's nVidia's fault x3

[15:55:38]

justinh:

Tegra, innit?

[15:56:03]

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[15:56:19]

redxine:

I wonder if rasperyPi will do video well at all...

[15:56:33]

justinh:

nope

[15:56:46]

justinh:

not bluray bandwidth anyway

[15:57:04]

justinh:

and way not enough ram for XBMC or mythfrontend

[15:57:13]

redxine:

Speaking of, will I even be able to play bluray content in myth?

[15:57:28]

justinh:

not til linux can do decryption

[15:57:38]

justinh:

uncrippled, mythtv can already do it

[15:57:40]

redxine:

.... uhm....

[15:57:41]

redxine:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads . . . stinshow.jpg

[15:57:47]

redxine:

Raspberry Pi stand – that's Avatar running at 1080p on the monitor above the alpha board.

[15:57:56]

redxine:

lol

[15:58:08]

justinh:

transcoded

[15:58:14]

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[15:58:27]

redxine:

... into what!?

[15:58:35]

redxine:

1080p in any codec is quite the helping

[15:58:47]

justinh:

it's not all about the resoultion

[15:58:54]

justinh:

bitrate, encoding...

[15:59:45]

qwebirc96654:

Question: One of my OTA channels switched their broadcasts from 1080i to 720p. Now my frontend playback stutters every second or so at 1.3 speed. If I move it back to 1.0 speed things get better. 1080i content plays fine at 1.3 using VDPAU Normal. Any ideas?

[15:59:47]

redxine:

that would introduce artifacts.

[15:59:55]

qwebirc96654:

Here's a log http://pastebin.com/fdvJm409

[16:02:12]

justinh:

holy crap I'd missed that little tidbit. Apparently the Pi's SoC can do 1080P *en*coding too

[16:02:43]

redxine:

<3 ARM

[16:02:46]

dekarl-too:

qwebirc96654: what card is that? for ion1 you might want more memory bandwidth. and you might try to change the playback profile a bit Player(1): Video sync method can't support double framerate (refresh rate too low for 2x deint)

[16:02:48]

redxine:

lol

[16:03:20]

qwebirc96654:

It's an 8400GS

[16:03:25]

redxine:

This would be perfect for my Uganda WISP plan.

[16:04:29]

qwebirc96654:

so even though the bitrate is lower on the 720p content because it's progressive instead of interlaced that's causing issues?

[16:04:44]

iamlindoro:

progressive v. interlaced has nothing to do with bitrate

[16:05:04]

iamlindoro:

in fact, your progressive content has twice the framerate of your interlaced content

[16:05:08]

justinh:

heh this is likely what the Pi is using http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/12 . . . deocore-iv/1

[16:05:21]

dekarl-too:

qwebirc96654: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU#Card_status hints that you might get into memory/memory bandwidth starvation with certain deinterlacers

[16:05:39]

iamlindoro:

dekarl-too: His new content is progressive

[16:05:55]

iamlindoro:

That said, the assessment is still probably correct, as he's now pushing twice the frames

[16:06:12]

redxine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_e . . . =X9cmxoSmOxU

[16:06:26]

justinh:

still not enough information about the exact formats it supports. Sure I got from somewhere that it won't necessarily do everything even VDPAU can do

[16:06:27]

redxine:

they mention the chip model

[16:06:29]

iamlindoro:

720p = 50/60 frames per second, 1080i = 25/50 frames per second

[16:06:37]

qwebirc96654:

so then shouldn't 1080i content be harder to play?

[16:06:39]

redxine:

Broadcom 2835

[16:06:41]

iamlindoro:

er 25/30

[16:07:01]

iamlindoro:

qwebirc96654: No, 1080i content is easier to play, the overhead comes from deinterlace

[16:07:11]

justinh:

"1080p30 Full HD HP H.264 Video Encode/Decode ". But what does that *mean* ?

[16:07:17]

iamlindoro:

720p content is 50 or 60 full frames per second, dpending on locale

[16:07:33]

iamlindoro:

1080i is 25 or 30 full frames per second, depending on locale, which you can then *optionally* deinterlace

[16:07:51]

qwebirc96654:

ah...so on 720p content the deinterlacer doesn't really matter?

[16:07:55]

iamlindoro:

so deinterlace aside, 720p content has to get twice as many frames to the screen persecond

[16:08:09]

iamlindoro:

in progressive content, the deinterlacer cannot even be used, so yes, it doesn't matter

[16:08:42]

qwebirc96654:

so then it comes down to if my 8400GS card is fast enough?

[16:08:55]

justinh:

Holy **** ! Pete Lomas is involved in the Pi?! :-O :-O

[16:09:09]

iamlindoro:

It's probably capable of handling it fine-- you just may have to tweak the bus speeds/cool n' quiet/throttling/etc.

[16:09:18]

justinh:

That man! He was heavily involved in the best products the company I work for has ever done

[16:10:18]

qwebirc96654:

oh....guess I need to do more googleing then.....is there way to see if the GPU is maxed? Like using top for the CPU?

[16:10:29]

redxine:

I want like a dozen of these things x3

[16:10:49]

iamlindoro:

If you're using VDPAU, then no broadcast 720p content is going to pose a problem

[16:11:07]

iamlindoro:

as dekarl-too mentioned to you some time ago, it is very likely a bus/memory/etc. throttling issue

[16:11:10]

dekarl-too:

he's using VDPAU according to the error message

[16:12:18]

qwebirc96654:

It seems to be fine at 1.0 playback.....so I'm guessing at 1.3 it's memory then...

[16:12:30]

qwebirc96654:

just checked and the box only has 512

[16:13:47]

dekarl-too:

it is a discrete card with it's own memory onboard, correct?

[16:13:55]

qwebirc96654:

yes

[16:14:15]

qwebirc96654:

I can't remember if it's 512 or 256 onboard

[16:14:25]

qwebirc96654:

onboard the card

[16:15:41]

qwebirc96654:

we established the the deinterlacers aren't being used on 720p content right?

[16:17:51]

dekarl-too:

I'm not sure because the error message mentions that your card can't do twice the fps for "2x deint"

[16:18:02]

dekarl-too:

simply trying it with deint=none is cheap :)

[16:19:33]

high-rez:

So I think I"ve run into a bug in trunk... where when watching tv, you pull up the guide, and switch channels from the guide, mythfrontend locks up

[16:20:23]

high-rez:

But switching channels through normal using up and down or entering the channel number works fine.

[16:20:42]

qwebirc96654:

would deint=none go in the playback profile somewhere?

[16:22:19]

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[16:22:45]

wagnerrp:

oh mitchell gore... cant take a joke...

[16:23:26]

dekarl-too:

qwebirc96654: see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU#Enabling_VDPAU_in_MythFrontend

[16:23:53]

qwebirc96654:

here's the mediainfo of the file http://pastebin.com/snsdYGQj

[16:25:52]

dekarl-too:

hmm mpeg-2 720p 60fps, you might get away with software decoding for that. but that's not my area of expertise

[16:26:08]

high-rez:

w

[16:26:17]

high-rez:

erps ;)

[16:27:38]

qwebirc96654:

I don't think my cpu is fast enough for that....I think I tried before adding the 8400GS

[16:29:05]

dekarl-too:

I'd first try to go to VDPAU Slim / disable the deinterlacer and see what happens

[16:29:34]

qwebirc96654:

much easier than opening the box....I'll try it out...thanks

[16:30:05]

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[16:30:43]

redxine:

dekarl-too: Hey – I've got to run, but when you get home you can email me one of those 61 minute time slot's programme ID and time/channel or whatever to redxine@gmail.com

[16:30:46]

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[16:31:40]

dekarl-too:

redxine: sure, I'll make a nice list of big overlaps in the next days

[16:33:33]

redxine:

I did some US copyright law research too. Anything which is published by the government or a government employee under this pretence is automatically in the public domain, so I'm thinking that at least applies to the scheduling guide.

[16:33:48]

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[16:34:58]

wagnerrp:

squidly: i thought someone had put up a pandora plugin of sorts for mythtv

[16:35:59]

dekarl-too:

redxine: I'm not sure if it's a good idea to harvest AFN for synopsis and epg pictures, though :-) might be some exception as they are just compiling commercial material, which could be considered something else from publishing

[16:36:14]

wagnerrp:

jedix: mythtv currently supports that CEC adapter

[16:37:11]

redxine:

That crossed my mind, but that should only be the content itself. I've been editing my own AFN icons for the channels at least.

[16:37:45]

redxine:

Channel 8 should have none of these problems, since it's entirely government content.

[16:39:00]

dekarl-too:

8 being the pentagon channel?

[16:39:04]

redxine:

I'll write them another email, but I'm not sure if they'll respond.

[16:39:26]

redxine:

Correct. I have a friend working as a producer I'll have to bug for an answer lol.

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[16:39:42]

dekarl-too:

that one is FTA

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[17:26:55]

high-rez:

Woot – as a remedy for their massive mess-ups in installing my service comcast gave me free hbo for three months (which of course was already included in my package, but I had declined, since I didn't really want to have to call to cancel it aftre the three motnhs or be charged). Awesome remedy since it's copy-once ;)

[17:27:15]

wagnerrp:

werent the mess-ups because you were using your own m-card?

[17:27:44]

high-rez:

No

[17:28:00]

wagnerrp:

someone tried to buy and use their own m-card...

[17:28:17]

high-rez:

Yeah, that was me. That was /after/ they had cleared the issue that prevented me from getting service. ;)

[17:28:30]

high-rez:

The mess-up was that they had a filter on my line, and they couldn't locate it for 2 weeks

[17:28:40]

high-rez:

They did 6 truck rolls to try to find this filter.

[17:30:17]

high-rez:

Basically, they couldn't locate their own tap where the filter was. :) I didn't blame them for the m-card. It was the 6 truck rolls, including two appointments where 1) they were 1.5 hours late and the other where they simply did not show.

[17:30:40]

wagnerrp:

hopefully all these service calls make no bearing on your bill

[17:32:31]

high-rez:

None at all. It's an initial install. They were not able to complete the install order becaue their test set couldn't lease an IP from the CMTS. The filter was apparently back when they had analog channels... It prevented people with cable modems only from getting the unencrypted analog channels. When they dropped the unencrypted analog channels they moved the cable modem upstream to that spectrum that had previously been used for analog – and th

[17:34:12]

high-rez:

The first and second truck rolls were contractors. Because the second contractor couldn't find the tap, and there's no remedy for contractors if they can't locate the tap and don't ahve the equipment to locate it (other than to keep looking) he marked the line as faulty in the work order – which cause further delays (and was not the right thing to do, but there is no other remedy for their contractors – and these guys are paid by the job).

[17:36:52]

high-rez:

End of day, after all the delays in turning up service, late contractors, and their own employees not bothering to show, they waived the install fee, applied a $20 credit for the late contractor, and gave me (har har har) free hbo that I can't watch. :)

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[17:55:30]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ah, I see... the problem isn't virtualization--it's that you and I don't understand how to set it up. :)

[17:56:02]

sphery:

love the tirade about settings, too--"I would have arranged it differently, so the current way is stupid."

[17:59:37]

sphery:

exactly like the people who yelled about having an INFO (context) menu and a MENU (screen) menu in Watch Recordings...

[18:00:36]

sphery:

"If I don't understand it, it's stupid." I suppose this just means that all our users are /the/ rule by which the phrase "reasonable person" is measured.

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[18:14:15]

dekarl:

no reason to be so mean to him just because of a a little typo... He wants mythtv to be his VUWare which is very reasonable. :)

[18:14:21]

_gunni_:

mythweb question: I installed a new mythbackend box. As moving to 64bit i did a fresh install copied the database and got backend and frontend to work again, but mythweb only displays a white page with two links "MythTV" on it they link to http://192.168.1.11/mythweb/root_url any ideas?

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[18:14:45]

wagnerrp:

VUWare?

[18:14:52]

dekarl:

_gunni_: you did a fresh install of what?

[18:15:08]

_gunni_:

dekari: ubuntu 11.10.

[18:15:09]

dekarl:

wagnerrp: justinh made me pull that joke

[18:15:23]

_gunni_:

apache log shows errors: Fri Nov 18 19:08:36 2011] [error] [client 192.168.1.3] File does not exist: /var/www/mythweb/skin_url, referer: http://192.168.1.11/mythweb/

[18:15:24]

wagnerrp:

something to do with the AFN discussion earlier?

[18:15:51]

wagnerrp:

_gunni_: im better mythweb is not installed properly

[18:15:52]

dekarl:

wagnerrp: something with companies that write "view ware" as "VUWare" and using mythtv for viewing is very good

[18:15:57]

wagnerrp:

something wrong with the rewrite rules

[18:16:26]

dekarl:

_gunni_: ubuntu as in mythbuntu? (just asking because I'd expect mythweb to be properly configured out of the box)

[18:16:28]

_gunni_:

wagnerrp: Yes i thought of that ,too, but dont know how to debug. Any help on that?

[18:16:50]

_gunni_:

dekarl: ubuntu with mythbuntu repos

[18:17:05]

wagnerrp:

on ubuntu, no clue

[18:17:20]

wagnerrp:

actually, for anything other than manually configured apache, no clue

[18:18:10]

dekarl:

_gunni_: sounds like something with the mythweb.conf in /etc/http* or thereabout. need to look for actual directory names

[18:19:18]

_gunni_:

dekarl: its /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mythweb.conf to be exact

[18:19:24]

wagnerrp:

how refreshing... someone who realizes exactly what theyre doing and makes no excuses about it!

[18:19:27]

wagnerrp:

http://gizmodo.com/5860730/cloudftp-wi+fi-ena . . . 313#comments

[18:20:37]

dekarl:

_gunni_: sites-enabled sounds good! (likely a symlink to sites-available/mythweb.conf)

[18:20:59]

_gunni_:

dekarl: Yes thats a symlink to the available site

[18:21:54]

_gunni_:

Ah man, i got it :)

[18:22:11]

sphery:

hehe, vuware

[18:22:53]

dekarl:

_gunni_: mind to leave a pointer for the next person to ask? :)

[18:23:05]

_gunni_:

For your notes: Was a wrng directory in the directory directive: <Directory "/var/www/mythweb/data"> was <Directory "/var/www/html/data">

[18:23:41]

dekarl:

:( sounds like a packaging bug, I'll call the backoffice

[18:23:47]

_gunni_:

Dont know why the deb package did not set that correct

[18:24:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: hehe, nice

[18:24:34]

dekarl:

that's ubuntu 11.10 with mythbuntu repos and 0.24.1-fixes, correct?

[18:24:34]

_gunni_:

Thx for your help

[18:25:29]

_gunni_:

dekarl: Ah, no , 0.25 (ashamed that i forgot to mention that )

[18:25:43]

_gunni_:

Everything else like you mentioned

[18:25:58]

dekarl:

can you pastebin the section you changed?

[18:26:34]

dekarl:

I have http://paste.ubuntu.com/742508/ out of the box and its working

[18:29:06]

_gunni_:

dekarl: http://pastebin.com/8g4aa1JJ

[18:29:20]

dekarl:

cool, thanks

[18:29:58]

dekarl:

I think the first directory directive is a red herring but the second was needed (comparing upstream mythweb vs. mythbuntu vs. what you/me got)

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[18:31:05]

_gunni_:

There seems another problem. data/tv_icons has wrong permissions: drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-11–17 08:05 tv_icons

[18:31:36]

dekarl:

I'm not sure that'S used?

[18:31:45]

_gunni_:

tv list showed me was not writable, i changed it to 777 as workaround and tv listing works again

[18:32:04]

dekarl:

see my paste... the first directory directive points to the wrong directory, yet everything appears to work

[18:32:12]

dekarl:

oh, ok

[18:32:16]

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[18:32:17]

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[18:32:35]

_gunni_:

dekarl: Error on tv list shows "data/tv_icons directory is not writable by www-data. Please check permissions."

[18:33:09]

wagnerrp:

that just means you wont get tv icons, it shouldnt prevent mythweb from running

[18:33:31]

_gunni_:

dekarl: So both direcory directives are important

[18:33:55]

dekarl:

hmm... worksforme without the first, I'll try to fix mine and see what happens

[18:33:56]

_gunni_:

wagnerrp: It does not show the listing, as it stops output after the error

[18:34:35]

kormoc:

_gunni_, view the source and paste bin it?

[18:34:57]

_gunni_:

kormoc: Source of the html tv list?

[18:35:02]

kormoc:

yes

[18:36:08]

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[18:36:14]

_gunni_:

kormoc: http://pastebin.com/ZGkNRhSL

[18:36:42]

kormoc:

huh. guess we fatal for that

[18:36:42]

kormoc:

weird

[18:38:11]

dekarl:

ls -la /var/www/mythweb/data/tv_icons/ shows it is by default.

[18:40:36]

kormoc:

ls -lad /var/www/mythweb/data/tv_icons /var/www/mythweb/data /var/www/mythweb

[18:41:37]

dekarl:

ls -lad /var/www/mythweb/data/tv_icons/ /var/www/mythweb/data/tv_icons /var/www/mythweb/data /var/www/mythweb

[18:42:02]

dekarl:

http://paste.ubuntu.com/742518/

[18:43:30]

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[18:43:38]

_gunni_:

Looks slighly different here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/742519/

[18:44:07]

_gunni_:

ah, did not copy the whole line

[18:44:19]

dekarl:

that's kormoc's line, not mine :)

[18:45:14]

_gunni_:

dekarl: http://paste.ubuntu.com/742521/

[18:45:24]

kormoc:

ls -lad /usr/share/mythtv/mythweb

[18:45:53]

kormoc:

and /var/cache/mythweb/image_cache

[18:45:56]

dekarl:

_gunni_: notice the difference in the last line... www-data vs. root

[18:46:29]

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[18:46:35]

_gunni_:

Yes, i notice it, but cant explain why there is the difference, as i just installed the package. I even purged it and reinstalled.

[18:46:40]

kormoc:

I honestly would just chgrp www-data /var/www/mythweb/data/tv_icons

[18:46:46]

kormoc:

see if that fixes it

[18:47:04]

_gunni_:

kormoc: Should not work as its 755 not 775

[18:47:18]

kormoc:

honestly, I doubt it even matters. I'm fairly certain I moved to streaming them

[18:48:40]

dekarl:

kormoc: as in the cache gets written to but never used?

[18:49:15]

kormoc:

I don't think it gets written anymore

[18:49:49]

kormoc:

ooh, channel icons, not pixmaps

[18:50:16]

kormoc:

I guess I should update that to do the same trick, use the browser cache rather then the webserver

[18:50:58]

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[18:52:12]

_gunni_:

brb

[18:55:35]

sphery:

ah, I missed my chance to say: ls -lad /var/www{,/mythweb{,/data{,/tv_icons}}}

[18:55:43]

sphery:

(and yet I somehow still said it...)

[18:56:36]

dekarl:

ls -lad /var/www{,/mythweb{,/data{,/tv_icons}}}{,/} # :)

[18:57:00]

jedix:

wagnerrp: yeah, I see that on the page

[18:57:04]

jedix:

it looks pretty sweet

[18:57:14]

dekarl:

on my backend your line halts before symlink traversal

[18:57:50]

kormoc:

that's cause you have dual symlinks

[18:57:53]

sphery:

ah, you wanted contents of the dirs, too

[18:57:58]

kormoc:

nah

[18:58:02]

sphery:

that explains the a

[18:58:46]

dekarl:

yes, the a was to see "." but you're doing something different

[18:59:43]

dekarl:

kormoc: whatever it is, it's the difference on an OOB system between showing the group root or www-data with g+w rights

[19:01:46]

** dekarl needs to get more people to use his guide feed so german movies get added to themoviedb and rated so I can record "movies with good rating" automatically :) **

[19:06:33]

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[19:13:55]

wagnerrp:

apple may have to stop selling product in germany due to 'cloud' patents

[19:15:47]

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[19:16:39]

Captain_Murdoch:

s/cloud/fog/

[19:17:23]

Captain_Murdoch:

perl -i -pe 's/cloud/fog/g' *.c *.doc etc..

[19:17:36]

iamlindoro:

It's in the smog!

[19:17:39]

wagnerrp:

somehow a mechanism to synchronize multiple pagers with a central server using the phone network applies to smart phones

[19:20:02]

Scopeuk:

wagnerrp, in the same way that multiple obseenly broad patens are weaponised these days (is this a new thing really i'm nto sure)

[19:20:15]

sphery:

hehe, setiathome just recently reached the 2^31 (signed int max) limit--which is causing some issues with its servers while they're updating code

[19:20:28]

wagnerrp:

Scopeuk: no, its not new

[19:20:42]

wagnerrp:

hollywood exists due to patent fraud

[19:20:43]

Scopeuk:

somehow i didn't think it would be

[19:20:48]

sphery:

(reached that number of work units processed in this case)

[19:20:57]

Scopeuk:

sphery, seti are still going?

[19:21:09]

sphery:

yeah, and keeping my house (in FL) warm...

[19:21:12]

wagnerrp:

rather than pay to license film-making patents owned by companies on the east coast, they moved to the west coast

[19:21:18]

sphery:

which isn't something good in FL

[19:21:29]

wagnerrp:

back in the 20–30s, that was sufficiently far away to not be worth the effort to fight

[19:21:48]

Scopeuk:

i switched over to the lhc@home project then eventually gave up

[19:25:23]

sphery:

yeah, I'm still running it while electricity is cheap, but more out of inertia than anything... waiting for them to come up with a new/better plan (since the chances of setiathome finding anything are vanishingly small when you factor in size of the universe /and/ incredibly tiny time period in which we're observing)

[19:26:22]

sphery:

but if someone finds proof of alien civilization, maybe it will be one of my computers so that I win the all-expenses paid cruise to the other planet

[19:26:40]

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[19:51:13]

justinh:

heh my El Reg comment got through after all

[19:51:24]

justinh:

still leaving it down voted though

[19:51:35]

wagnerrp:

to what story?

[19:51:54]

sphery:

yeah, they take forever to moderate them

[19:52:21]

justinh:

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/11/18/qanda_w . . . _settop_box/

[19:52:49]

sphery:

haven't I seen Ian's name on the -users list?

[19:53:03]

justinh:

gee, all the media exposure mythtv is getting. I mean The Grauniad mentioned it the other day too

[19:53:14]

justinh:

sphery: wouldn't be surprised

[19:54:15]

wagnerrp:

justinh: might want to post something about an AMD mac-mini being a bad idea

[19:54:37]

justinh:

mythtv got a big mention in the graun when they had a big rant about the BBC's 'secret DRM' (one where freeviewHD EPG had to become huffman encoded)

[19:54:46]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . ;list=mythtv

[19:55:21]

wagnerrp:

ah yes, the printable tv-guide guy

[19:56:10]

sphery:

I still don't get why so many people think that a PC has to sit right next to the display...

[19:56:27]

justinh:

nor me

[19:56:41]

wagnerrp:

both of my frontends are in very close proximity to their display

[19:56:44]

sphery:

perhaps I'm the only one who uses them, but it seems that cables can carry signals over distances/through walls/...

[19:56:47]

justinh:

I don't get why so many PC cases are just so damn ugly either though

[19:57:08]

iamlindoro:

sphery: of course not, they can sit under them too!

[19:57:13]

wagnerrp:

one separated by two inches of floorboard and carpet, the other tucked behind a monstrous home theater cabinet

[19:57:45]

justinh:

wagnerrp: I wouldn't give a PC long in a British floorspace

[19:57:51]

sphery:

iamlindoro: exactly... or even on top

[19:58:05]

justinh:

or behind it!

[19:58:15]

sphery:

no possible way to put them in a cabinet or closet or other room, though... that's just crazy

[19:58:22]

wagnerrp:

justinh: its on the top of a shelving unit in my basement, about a foot below the floor

[19:58:33]

wagnerrp:

6

[19:58:38]

justinh:

heh. nice if you have a basement

[19:58:39]

wagnerrp:

6' HDMI cable run up to the TV

[19:58:49]

wagnerrp:

you have no basement?

[19:59:04]

justinh:

wagnerrp: a crawlspace barely tall enough to crawl around

[19:59:07]

wagnerrp:

very high water table?

[19:59:10]

sphery:

at least they're giving him good mythtv-users-list-quality advice--lots of "just get an atom system" comments

[19:59:45]

justinh:

wagnerrp: not especially. It's more likely that it'd just involve a lot more work

[20:00:00]

wagnerrp:

except for places like florida where the table is so high, you dont even have to fill up your pool

[20:00:05]

wagnerrp:

i dont see why areas wouldnt have basements

[20:00:31]

sphery:

what's a basement?

[20:00:33]

justinh:

wagnerrp: also ousing rates used to charge on useable floor space

[20:00:37]

justinh:

*housing

[20:01:01]

justinh:

so add space you don't use so much & pay extra, why? ;-)

[20:01:06]

wagnerrp:

over here, basements dont count as usable floor space unless it is considered "finished"

[20:01:30]

justinh:

what does that entail? floor covering?

[20:01:43]

wagnerrp:

i.e. carpeting, insulation, non-cement walls, furniture

[20:01:56]

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[20:02:00]

** sphery signs in to thumbs-up justinh's post **

[20:02:03]

justinh:

it's crazy though. should go on area of land occupied

[20:02:39]

justinh:

anyway, basements are pretty rare in the UK

[20:02:56]

wagnerrp:

we actually pay taxes on valued worth

[20:03:03]

wagnerrp:

which is more or less independent of floor space

[20:03:06]

justinh:

yeah we do now

[20:03:29]

justinh:

some banding system or other they never make clear what the criteria are

[20:03:57]

justinh:

and a lot of houses are just banded by area, so you may or may not be paying too much/little

[20:04:04]

justinh:

big gamble to take, having it checked

[20:04:28]

wagnerrp:

here you get a county auditor to come in and survey your property, valuing it for taxes

[20:04:29]

justinh:

and it *is* a gamble cos nobody but the authority knows the criteria. good eh

[20:05:01]

justinh:

we have that kind of thing here too, but like I said most were just guessed

[20:06:04]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: so this guy today is someone new

[20:06:13]

wagnerrp:

10 character names, so he may be using similar software

[20:06:27]

wagnerrp:

but different address block, immediate authentication, and AOL email addresses

[20:06:46]

justinh:

just block *@aol.com

[20:06:51]

wagnerrp:

heh

[20:06:54]

justinh:

I do on my site. Never heard a peep

[20:07:25]

justinh:

the few genuine people with aol email addresses were a PITA anyway

[20:08:11]

justinh:

they're the ones most likely to send emails asking questions which are already answered on the site, had they ever bothered to read it

[20:08:49]

justinh:

maybe it didn't work in the AOL browser, who knows ;)

[20:09:36]

wagnerrp:

after the big culling of worthless users (no posts) two weeks ago, weve got 23 aol accounts

[20:09:49]

wagnerrp:

16 are blocked

[20:09:51]

justinh:

wonder whatever happened to all those racks of modems

[20:10:01]

wagnerrp:

and three have a single post

[20:10:10]

wagnerrp:

the remaining four are unused

[20:10:47]

wagnerrp:

so potentially, we could ban aol.com and not lose anything of worth

[20:11:16]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: heh

[20:11:54]

iamlindoro:

I guess auth isn't that hard if you've got e-mail addresses-- just wrirte some script to download and activate every link that comes in

[20:12:08]

iamlindoro:

The fact that they're working around captcha is what irritates me

[20:12:18]

iamlindoro:

Which presumes we're doing captcha, as I thought we were

[20:13:00]

justinh:

"go to page XYZ of the user manual and type the nth word from the yth paragraph here"

[20:13:23]

iamlindoro:

Yay sierra copy protection!

[20:14:02]

justinh:

or better yet, place the coloured plastic gel over the graphic below...

[20:14:39]

wagnerrp:

so checking for specifically what we would lose

[20:14:56]

wagnerrp:

one user promoting the use of ancient BT framegrabbers... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki?title=Hauppauge_Wi . . . ;oldid=32098

[20:15:32]

justinh:

wonder which domain generates the most feature requests

[20:15:38]

wagnerrp:

one user wanting to use titantv to turn their mythtv system into a dumb vcr... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_talk:Geraldmyth

[20:16:00]

wagnerrp:

and one guy with a bunch of feature requests pertaining to IPTV... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kyl416

[20:16:43]

wagnerrp:

that middle one would actually be worthwhile

[20:16:52]

wagnerrp:

i mean after all, who wants to pay $25/year for guide data

[20:16:58]

wagnerrp:

information wants to be FREE!

[20:17:15]

justinh:

just have your facebook friends recommend shows

[20:18:00]

justinh:

then sit in front of your box with a 6-pack & cry into your beer as you watch XFactor

[20:18:02]

Scopeuk-AFK is now known as Scopeuk

[20:19:32]

justinh:

btw re mini macs... any idea when they're likely to dump AMD again?

[20:20:11]

iamlindoro:

Whenever nVidia makes it more appealing to them again, I'd guess

[20:20:12]

dekarl:

actually I always think of X-Factor when you say XFactor and think its at least a little bit interesting... http://thetvdb.com/?tab=series&id=75706&lid=14

[20:20:17]

iamlindoro:

they are always playing both sides of the GPU game

[20:21:01]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the PPC macs were all ATI units

[20:21:42]

wagnerrp:

im wondering if not using the now AMD parts was part of some agreement made with Intel

[20:24:50]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: The new minis are AMD-- they've gone back and forth on GPUs a lot with the intel macs

[20:25:11]

iamlindoro:

AMD GPUs, that is

[20:25:24]

wagnerrp:

have they? i honestly havent paying that close attention

[20:26:00]

wagnerrp:

i just know the old PPC Minis units were AMD, then integrated Intel, then nVidia, and back to AMD

[20:26:20]

** Beirdo grins. my 2D wavelet transforms are workin **

[20:26:36]

wagnerrp:

wavelets for... ?

[20:26:50]

dekarl:

whom are you waving at?

[20:26:50]

wagnerrp:

are we getting a GPU pumped Snow encoder?

[20:26:51]

Beirdo:

video processing... for gpu commflagging

[20:27:10]

wagnerrp:

ah, didnt know the commflagger used wavelets

[20:27:13]

Beirdo:

a lot of the stuff is easier to analyse from wavelet transforms

[20:27:18]

Beirdo:

it doesn't... yet :)

[20:27:20]

Beirdo:

will soon

[20:27:42]

Beirdo:

http://www.beirdo.ca/~gjhurlbu/test/wavelet0.ppm

[20:27:53]

iamlindoro:

what's a PPM?

[20:27:58]

Beirdo:

that's in YUV (but dumped as RGB)

[20:28:07]

wagnerrp:

image format

[20:28:09]

wagnerrp:

see NetPBM

[20:28:11]

Beirdo:

it's a portable raw image format

[20:28:20]

Beirdo:

that's one field

[20:28:31]

Beirdo:

top field to be exact. :)

[20:28:38]

wagnerrp:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netpbm_format

[20:28:57]

Beirdo:

the RGB version of the frame is at: htttp://www.beirdo.ca/~gjhurlbu/test/rgb0.ppm

[20:29:35]

Beirdo:

errr. s/htttp/http/

[20:29:38]

wagnerrp:

Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (htttp) isn't associated with any program.

[20:29:47]

Beirdo:

yeah yah :)

[20:29:52]

dekarl:

no circumventing the copy protection :D

[20:30:07]

dekarl:

actually I like the YUV one better...

[20:30:47]

Beirdo:

the decoding of that was done by VDPAU, then I kick it over to OpenGL, copy the texture, kick the new texture to OpenCL...

[20:31:08]

wagnerrp:

no way to do that directly?

[20:31:09]

Beirdo:

then repack the frames (still in YUV)...

[20:31:11]

Beirdo:

nope

[20:31:19]

wagnerrp:

any significant overhead from that?

[20:31:22]

Beirdo:

there's VDPAU->OpenGL bindings

[20:31:28]

Beirdo:

and OpenGL->OpenCL

[20:31:39]

Beirdo:

but you can't bind the same texture to both at the same time

[20:31:55]

Beirdo:

not significant, no, it's all done in GPU memory

[20:32:26]

Beirdo:

then I run the wavelet transform... two levels.. :)

[20:32:35]

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[20:32:45]

Beirdo:

it's rather fun stuff. The wavelets will make edge detection much simpler

[20:32:57]

Beirdo:

which we do use in logo detection, IIRC

[20:33:41]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: What is holding up having an OS X buildbot? If I had a 8-way Xeon Mac Pro to throw at that, would it just be a matter of setting it up?

[20:33:42]

Beirdo:

definitely having fun :)

[20:33:46]

dekarl:

the wavelet not containing anything but red in the right and lower section means the chroma resolution is half the luma resolution?

[20:34:15]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: stuarta was working on it a while back, but it shouldn't be much harder than getting it running in Windows

[20:34:31]

Beirdo:

dekarl: that's a direct result, yes

[20:34:45]

Beirdo:

so the differences in chroma are 0 at the first level

[20:34:54]

Beirdo:

(going from YUV420p, BTW)

[20:35:50]

dekarl:

to be expected as that's what 4:2:0 says IIRC

[20:35:57]

Beirdo:

yup.

[20:35:59]

wagnerrp:

dekarl: in YUV, the chroma already is half the luma

[20:36:11]

wagnerrp:

one color per four pixels

[20:36:40]

Beirdo:

most wavelet transforms are done with Y only, but I figured no harm in doing all 3 channels, the others come for free anyways

[20:36:53]

Beirdo:

and I can always analyse just off the Y channel

[20:36:59]

dekarl:

I thought the one color per four pixels is the 4:2:0, not the YUV... need to look it up someday

[20:37:24]

Beirdo:

yeah, in YUV420p, it's one U, one V per 4 pixels

[20:37:35]

Beirdo:

there are other YUV encodings too, but that's the one in use here

[20:37:40]

wagnerrp:

well yeah, but anything broadcast or otherwise commercially available is going to be 420

[20:37:44]

Beirdo:

yup

[20:38:03]

dekarl:

true

[20:38:05]

Beirdo:

internally I have it converted to one UV per pixel for ease of analysis

[20:38:24]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: so thats horizontal, vertical, and combined?

[20:38:59]

wagnerrp:

intensity of change from one pixel to the next?

[20:39:36]

Beirdo:

yeah, top left-most is averaged, then top right is horizontal area (giving vertical detail), bottom left is vertical area (giving horizontal detail) and bottom right diagonal

[20:39:39]

Beirdo:

yes, precisely

[20:39:54]

Beirdo:

and then the second level is just run on the averaged area

[20:40:04]

Beirdo:

and you can keep going many more levels down

[20:40:47]

Beirdo:

the cool thing is... to do the inverse transform, the math is equally simple

[20:41:22]

wagnerrp:

and supposedly the wavelet image is easier to compress than the rgb image?

[20:41:24]

Beirdo:

so for denoising for instance... you can threshold the values, then reverse the transform, and get back a denoised image.

[20:42:12]

Beirdo:

yeah, there's a lot of 0 values in there, it moves the energy into a smaller distribution, which lends well to huffman coding

[20:42:14]

dekarl:

denoising as in low-pass filtering?

[20:42:15]

Beirdo:

IIRC

[20:42:53]

Beirdo:

well, denoising as in removing noise :) not as useful now that we are primarily sourcing digitally rather than analog

[20:43:07]

Beirdo:

but yeah, much of it is a low-pass

[20:43:33]

Beirdo:

oh, and a lesson well learned...

[20:43:46]

Beirdo:

don't try writing outside of the allocated memory in the GPU

[20:43:56]

Beirdo:

heh. really weird crap can ensue

[20:44:09]

wagnerrp:

no segmentation checks?

[20:44:15]

Beirdo:

nope

[20:44:27]

Beirdo:

it will happily try to eat itself

[20:44:40]

wagnerrp:

in order words, you can get excellent performance, but you better damn well know what youre doing

[20:44:43]

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[20:44:50]

Beirdo:

I crashed the box a couple times. wedged it good

[20:45:02]

Beirdo:

yeah, must be uber-careful

[20:45:14]

sphery:

until you physically destroy the graphics card, you're still just a wannabe

[20:45:31]

Beirdo:

hehe, I hope I manage to avoid that.

[20:45:44]

sphery:

yeah, especially as you have a rather expensive card

[20:45:50]

wagnerrp:

s/avoid that/avoid that after the RMA runs out/

[20:45:56]

Beirdo:

yeah

[20:46:20]

dekarl:

is the wavelet transform in a shader or in a kernel?

[20:46:22]

wagnerrp:

i dont know what happened! the card just... stopped working!

[20:46:27]

Beirdo:

The nvidia dudes were trying to convince me to abandon OpenCL and just use CUDA

[20:46:36]

Beirdo:

dekarl: it's an OpenCL kernel

[20:46:39]

sphery:

trying to decide whther to let me geek points expire or to buy something or to use them (which also entails buying something)

[20:47:06]

wagnerrp:

geek points?

[20:47:25]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: well you would likely get better performance using CUDA directly

[20:47:28]

Beirdo:

and a way simpler one than I initially had thought

[20:47:37]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: doubtful

[20:47:40]

Beirdo:

not by much anyways

[20:47:45]

wagnerrp:

but there would be no possibility using anything but nvidia hardware should AMD eventually clean up their act

[20:47:56]

Beirdo:

it all comes down to the CUDA kernel vs the OpenCL kernel

[20:48:34]

Beirdo:

and they'd be nearly identical, although CUDA may end up optimizing it... my OpenCL is being compiled via the CUDA compiler anyways right now

[20:48:34]

sphery:

wagnerrp: from thinkgeek

[20:48:49]

Beirdo:

yeah, AMD should work with OpenCL

[20:49:04]

Beirdo:

eventually, Intel may even put out support for it on Sandybridge

[20:49:11]

wagnerrp:

does that mean it would have to be recompiled for a different gpu architecture?

[20:49:27]

Beirdo:

and since we just can't convince people to stop buying AMD...

[20:49:41]

Beirdo:

yes, it does JIT compiling

[20:49:58]

Beirdo:

the OpenCL drivers implement it however they need to

[20:50:02]

sphery:

the strange thing is that AMD's Linux drivers can't convince people to stop buying AMD for GNU/Linux

[20:50:13]

wagnerrp:

ok, so no trouble for the packagers

[20:50:22]

Beirdo:

hopefully not.

[20:50:49]

Beirdo:

unfortunately, I don't know that the CUDA SDK is packaged other than by nvidia

[20:51:01]

Beirdo:

(which is how I'm using it now)

[20:51:14]

Beirdo:

but, we'll get to that bridge soon enough

[20:51:47]

Beirdo:

in the mean time, it's providing much brain-exploding fun :)

[21:03:02]

justinh:

I really popped a spanner into the mix at work by suggesting we should look at using GPUs in our systems

[21:05:00]

justinh:

oh and that raspberry pi thing – smaller than our own codec cards & WAY more powerful. we're like 4 years behind the curve now thanks to that 'smart' acquisition. Word to the directors: never buy a fabless chip outfit unless they're already ahead of the game

[21:05:06]

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[21:05:36]

justinh:

people are starting to say I should be a product manager. God help me if I ever stumble into that one

[21:06:41]

dekarl:

ohh, product managers are a funny bunch... we always have to tell them which product have been cancelled n years ago... "wut I can not put it on the webshop?"

[21:08:04]

justinh:

they're mostly whipping boys for the CEO around my way I think

[21:08:08]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: gzip -9 on the raw yuv frame ppm gave 68.5% compression. On the RGB 59.6%. and on the 2-level wavelet; 87.1%, on the 1-level wavelet: 84.6%

[21:08:12]

Beirdo:

on the same image

[21:08:35]

wagnerrp:

and the 2-level can be losslessly converted back to the original?

[21:08:40]

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[21:08:41]

dekarl:

did someone take out the us .mil DNS server? I can lookup AFN, Navy, etc ...

[21:08:42]

Beirdo:

yes

[21:08:49]

justinh:

like, if he didn't have the idea it's a bad one. So you've got to make it seem to him like he thought of it first. He's worse than the proverbial PHB

[21:09:23]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: whats more interesting is that wavelet could be progressively decoded

[21:09:32]

wagnerrp:

if you wanted, you could only decode the smaller version

[21:09:58]

Beirdo:

yeah, you can do all sorts of funky things :)

[21:10:08]

wagnerrp:

although the CPU needs for MPEG2 and even h264 are not that extreme these days...

[21:10:40]

Beirdo:

yeah

[21:11:06]

Beirdo:

JPEG2000 uses wavelets as a large part of their compression, IIRC

[21:11:19]

dekarl:

so does Dirac

[21:11:22]

Beirdo:

with thresholding or something like that

[21:11:53]

justinh:

always wondered how much overhead multiple resolutions in one stream would take

[21:12:02]

justinh:

or is that basically free with wavelets?

[21:12:07]

Beirdo:

like a mipmap sorta thing?

[21:12:26]

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[21:12:33]

Beirdo:

well, the wavelets basically extract details, the more levels, the more details

[21:13:17]

Beirdo:

I want to play a bit, go down like 4 levels, then clear out the approximation (averaged, subsampled frame) and then reverse to see what it looks like

[21:13:20]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:14:14]

Beirdo:

it should give a picture much like an edge-detection filter

[21:14:46]

justinh:

Beirdo: so you're gonna be the go-to guy for GPU effects in the UI then?

[21:14:59]

Beirdo:

Hmm, possibly at some point, yeah :)

[21:15:15]

wagnerrp:

if those GPU effects are going to be programmed in OpenCL, and then pushed back out to OpenGL textures

[21:15:18]

Beirdo:

OpenGL shaders, for instance?

[21:16:59]

justinh:

wasn't somebody going to look at those at some point? Oh yeah me.. then I decided I'd be WAY out of my depth

[21:17:03]

Beirdo:

yeah, that could be cool

[21:17:27]

Beirdo:

yeah, doing OpenCL kernels for things shouldn't be too hard once you get in the hang of it

[21:17:30]

justinh:

ah it's still nice to reminisce about the fun I had diddling with the gl painter though

[21:18:04]

Beirdo:

it is a paradigm shift though to be working in a massively parallel setup

[21:18:17]

Beirdo:

SIMD is... interesting stuff

[21:18:31]

Beirdo:

and that's effectively what the GPU does

[21:18:37]

justinh:

well, everything I'd have wanted to do is available off the shelf all over the place

[21:18:45]

justinh:

blurs, transforms etc..

[21:18:51]

Beirdo:

heh, if we used CUDA....

[21:19:24]

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[21:19:24]

Beirdo:

that reminds me

[21:19:33]

Beirdo:

I should buy an AMD card (shudder)

[21:19:42]

Beirdo:

and put it in the second devel box

[21:19:51]

Beirdo:

so I can test this on AMD sometime too

[21:20:15]

Beirdo:

although the decoding would then need to be XvBA or VAAPI or software, I guess

[21:20:53]

justinh:

back to Doom II I think. can't bring myself to do any more theming tonight

[21:21:06]

Beirdo:

kill things :)

[21:21:14]

justinh:

product managers

[21:22:49]

dekarl:

hehe http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19980220

[21:23:33]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[21:23:50]

dekarl:

what? 13 years old... I'm getting old

[21:28:18]

laga:

we're all getting old

[21:28:31]

Beirdo:

yup

[21:28:43]

iamlindoro:

Not me you old freaks

[21:29:00]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:29:49]

dekarl:

and I thought I wouldnt get older anymore but only get more rude... (hmm, sounds better in german)

[21:29:57]

laga:

heh

[21:30:43]

dekarl:

especially to product managers (see above :)

[21:30:55]

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[21:49:59]

Beirdo:

stupid video cards with double backplates

[21:53:36]

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[22:05:34]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v wagnerrp

[22:06:17]

wagnerrp:

oof... kicked offline and my IPs all changed

[22:07:02]

Beirdo:

fun

[22:07:04]

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[22:20:40]

wagnerrp:

something just seems wrong, running OpenCL on a CPU

[22:20:47]

clever:

finaly getting arround to updating mythtv!

[22:20:59]

clever:

was running a year (or 2??) old copy of svn trunk

[22:23:09]

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[22:28:48]

laga:

clever: dude, it's you!

[22:29:09]

clever:

and unexpectedly, i'm also doing a major kernel upgrade, 3.0!

[22:29:41]

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[22:32:42]

sphery:

svn trunk?

[22:32:45]

sphery:

not even git master?

[22:32:57]

clever:

i last updated before you switched over to git

[22:33:00]

sphery:

hehe

[22:33:17]

sphery:

nothing like running old, unstable code that's even older than current stable code

[22:33:23]

sphery:

:)

[22:33:46]

sphery:

at that point, you could have switched to 0.24-fixes and gotten improvements /and/ stability

[22:34:10]

wagnerrp:

was the divergence between 0.24 and trunk after the git migration?

[22:34:35]

clever:

i think it was .22

[22:34:55]

wagnerrp:

so... really really old

[22:34:56]

clever:

its gotten to the point, that it wont even compile against latest svn, changes to QString and the upnp code in myth

[22:35:06]

clever:

latest qt*

[22:35:40]

clever:

it no longer works with QString(0) via the template getter

[22:36:02]

clever:

tried backporting the changes but its better to just update now

[22:36:35]

sphery:

yeah, definitely

[22:36:50]

sphery:

backporting compile fixes to old, unstable code makes no sense

[22:37:04]

sphery:

s/backporting compile fixes to/running/

[22:37:28]

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[22:37:57]

sphery:

the phrase is, after all, "bleeding edge", not "bleeding middle"--and I'm pretty sure it wasn't supposed to mean "trailing edge"

[22:39:18]

clever:

main thing holding things back was the qt and alsa versions on the distro

[22:42:21]

Scopeuk is now known as Scopeuk-AFK

[22:42:30]

sphery:

which distro do you use? (just out of curiosity)

[22:42:59]

clever:

sphery: i was using ubuntu

[22:43:07]

clever:

i forget which release, checking

[22:43:14]

sphery:

ah, so just didn't have the chance to do an upgrade

[22:43:29]

clever:

every time i did an upgrade, it got worse

[22:43:41]

clever:

first upgrade broke lirc completely, so i had to use an old kernel and module

[22:43:55]

clever:

second upgrade broke ivtv completely, so i was forced to use the (now older) kernel/module

[22:44:05]

clever:

ubuntu 8.04

[22:44:35]

sphery:

yeah, upgrades almost always require a period of, "find out how I need to change configuration for the new drivers/programs/..."

[22:45:07]

sphery:

as a matter of fact, I should boot my frontend into my new "requires lirc config changes" kernel and fix lirc so I can finalize that kernel rollout

[22:45:17]

clever:

the lirc drivers refused to compile against the new kernel or the old kernel, and the new lirc couldnt blast its way out of a piece of kleenex

[22:45:24]

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[22:45:29]

sphery:

I've been delaying a kernel upgrade due to the lirc changes--but I needed one for my new HVR-2250

[22:46:05]

clever:

only way i could cobble it together was an old lirc_serial.ko that i had backed up from before the upgrade

[22:46:10]

sphery:

well, since the lirc drivers were rolled into the kernel, it may well be that you had no need to compile the lirc drivers?

[22:46:26]

sphery:

(this being the lirc changes I was talking about)

[22:46:38]

clever:

the old backend is still running 2.6.22-14–386

[22:46:54]

clever:

the new backend is 3.0.6 and is using the in-tree lirc

[22:47:08]

clever:

havent tested blasting or capture yet, myth is upgrading the db

[22:47:13]

clever:

2011-11–18 18:46:43.698921 N Database Schema upgrade complete, unlocking.

[22:47:16]

clever:

ah, it just ifnished

[22:48:13]

clever:

i wonder if the VBI stuff is finaly safe

[22:49:42]

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[22:51:23]

clever:

2011-11–18 18:51:17.083842 I New DB connection, total: 3

[22:51:29]

clever:

sphery: whats the new letter codes, I?

[22:51:38]

sphery:

info

[22:51:44]

sphery:

log level stuff

[22:51:59]

sphery:

d for debug, e for error, etc.

[22:52:21]

clever:

ah

[22:52:31]

clever:

hmmm, cant add the capture card

[22:52:45]

clever:

pvr-150, ivtv driver loader, mythtv in the right group

[22:52:47]

sphery:

missing drivers and/or firmware?

[22:52:53]

clever:

crw-rw---- 1 root video 81, 0 Nov 18 14:08 /dev/video0

[22:53:00]

clever:

[ 2599.929777] ivtv0: Failed to initialize on device video0

[22:53:01]

clever:

ah

[22:53:33]

clever:

installing ivtv-firmware ivtv-utils

[22:54:36]

clever:

[ 2753.777404] ivtv0: Loaded v4l-cx2341x-enc.fw firmware (376836 bytes)

[22:54:40]

clever:

ok, trying again :)

[22:59:05]

clever:

now to test ir blasting

[23:00:25]

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[23:04:56]

clever:

sphery: ok, lircd doesnt support serial blasting, even though i have lirc_serial loaded, hmmmm

[23:05:23]

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[23:05:26]

clever:

when i enabled serial at compile time, it tried to compile the driver (which i already did) and failed

[23:07:42]

clever:

yeah, now begins the fight with lirc!

[23:08:45]

clever:

sphery: you know how to fix this?

[23:08:56]

sphery:

nope, I haven't played with new lirc

[23:09:03]

sphery:

and don't use a blaster, anymore

[23:09:41]

clever:

/var/tmp/portage/app-misc/lirc-0.8.7/work/lirc-0.8.7/drivers/lirc_dev/lirc_dev.c :45:28: fatal error: linux/smp_lock.h: No such file or directory

[23:11:08]

clever:

yep, its nowhere to be found, hmmm

[23:11:28]

clever:

its almost like the lirc package is too old and is still trying to compile a second driver

[23:11:30]

sphery:

portage? I thought you were on *buntu?

[23:11:58]

clever:

the old backend was ubuntu, the new backend is gentoo

[23:12:03]

sphery:

yeah, ttbomk, lirc 0.9 is the one that's meant to be used with new kernels

[23:12:19]

clever:

ok, let me force 0.9

[23:12:27]

sphery:

i.e. you need that for the kernels with drivers in kernel tree

[23:12:55]

clever:

yeah, keyword mask, overriding

[23:13:55]

clever:

ok, installing...

[23:15:17]

clever:

no errors! :)

[23:18:30]

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[23:28:11]

clever:

sphery: thanks, that did it

[23:28:44]

sphery:

hehe, well, if you were using a distro that still had people working on the package management system

[23:29:06]

sphery:

versus one where everyone seems to have left--and left all the ebuilds in a state of disarray because they lack the manpower to keep up with changes... :)

[23:30:01]

clever:

the 0.9 ebuild is there, it just wasnt flagged as stable

[23:30:10]

clever:

linux 3.0 went stable before lirc 0.9

[23:30:47]

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[23:30:53]

clever:

linux 3.0 still doesnt sound right, lol

[23:32:21]

clever:

2011-11–18 19:32:05.618202 I Scheduled 194 items in 5.0 = 0.15 match + 4.89 place

[23:32:24]

clever:

rules still working :)

[23:35:15]

clever:

25 minute wait to see if it will capture ok

[23:36:28]

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[23:42:31]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you still around?

[23:42:56]

Beirdo:

yup

[23:43:18]

Beirdo:

stuck at work like a chump. Whazzup?

[23:43:20]

wagnerrp:

you have some IR experience, so im wondering if you might have an answer to this

[23:43:32]

wagnerrp:

ive got a number of these cheap DTAs for cable

[23:43:45]

wagnerrp:

their own remotes work fine with them

[23:44:01]

wagnerrp:

but a harmony ive got programmed for it acts... strange

[23:44:03]

wagnerrp:

it normally works

[23:44:26]

wagnerrp:

but maybe every 15–20 seconds, for a couple seconds each time, it refuses to respond to button presses

[23:44:35]

wagnerrp:

my mceusb lights up, so i know the harmony is sending stuff

[23:44:40]

Beirdo:

weird

[23:44:49]

wagnerrp:

and the DTAs own remote will work during that period

[23:44:54]

wagnerrp:

but the harmony doesnt

[23:45:01]

Beirdo:

wonder if it uses a slightly different clock rate than normal?

[23:45:06]

wagnerrp:

ive even go so far as to try reprogramming the codes in the harmony

[23:54:19]

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