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Error at /usr/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 229:
Undefined variable $query

Details:
    datetime:  2025-10-03 02:22:18 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  Undefined variable $query
    filename:  /usr/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  229
Tuesday, October 25th, 2011, 00:03 UTC
[00:03:40] Oleg_ (Oleg_!~oleg@pool-71-183-191-68.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[00:11:39] Oleg_: any of you like fvwm?
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[00:17:31] ** iamlindoro_ is pretty sure he can have the MBE back up by his first recording of the evening **
[00:17:45] wagnerrp: the one that started 17 minutes ago?
[00:18:32] iamlindoro_: Heh, 42 more minutes
[00:19:10] Oleg_: MBE?
[00:19:16] wagnerrp: mythbackend
[00:19:49] Oleg_: iamlindoro, so, rignt now you are editing the code of mythbackend?
[00:20:06] wagnerrp: no
[00:20:51] wagnerrp: 'back up', as in recover from a hardware fault
[00:20:55] Oleg_: ok
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[00:24:24] wagnerrp: Beirdo: you and your lousy world series
[00:24:26] Oleg_: "every rose has its thorn, just like every night has its dawn, just like every cowboy sings his sad, sad song..."
[00:24:38] wagnerrp: cutting into my terra nova/house time
[00:24:56] Oleg_: Terra Nova is not really a good show
[00:24:57] wagnerrp: i just looked at my backend expecting it to be recording
[00:25:07] wagnerrp: no... but i keep hoping it will get better
[00:25:58] wagnerrp: took me a moment to figure out what it was supposed to be recording but wasnt
[00:30:23] Oleg_: you guys have seen the show "The Wire"?
[00:30:33] wagnerrp: nope
[00:30:33] Oleg_: people say it's a great show
[00:31:04] wagnerrp: might be... too bad it ended three years ago
[00:31:39] Beirdo: wagnerrp: don't blame me, man. The Phillies were knocked out a while back, and so were the Tigers.
[00:32:15] wagnerrp: so ive got this titantv script written
[00:32:24] wagnerrp: and now that it works... i dont really see a purpose to it
[00:32:41] wagnerrp: i mean it has to be run on a local machine so you can access the database
[00:32:42] iamlindoro_: yay for jfs journal replay
[00:33:13] wagnerrp: they have an ipod app which could be interesting
[00:33:29] wagnerrp: but requires the application be able to access their remote scheduling queue directly
[00:33:39] wagnerrp: yet they have absolutely no documentation on just how to do that
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[00:35:14] Beirdo: anyone want an old Tivo2 or a replaytv?
[00:35:21] Beirdo: there were a bunch at Goodwill :)
[00:35:44] wagnerrp: im amazed there are replaytvs still functioning
[00:35:54] Beirdo: heh, it IS in Goodwill
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[00:35:59] Beirdo: it's probably borked
[00:36:13] Beirdo: there were at least 3 tivo2
[00:36:23] wagnerrp: now that i think about this
[00:36:34] Beirdo: and one replaytv that I saw... and a few dishpvr and directv pvr boxes
[00:36:45] wagnerrp: the guy who asked if we had any such thing on the wiki probably intends to use it to create manual (time based) rules using it
[00:36:52] wagnerrp: and doesnt actually have any guide data internally
[00:42:34] iamlindoro_: Which is exactly why it should rely on good guide data :) Take starttime and channum, attempt to get valid programdata, if exists, schedule :)
[00:43:54] wagnerrp: yeah, it requires something with at least the same title in that timeslot
[00:43:57] wagnerrp: otherwise it gives up
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[01:38:15] iamlindoro_: There, Backend back up and running, just udev, network mounts, and bip to sort out
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[01:52:49] wagnerrp: miss anything?
[01:53:01] iamlindoro_: nope
[01:53:08] iamlindoro_: but only just barely
[01:53:49] iamlindoro_: It's the little stuff that will take me a while to get back-- nightly DB backups and so on... the little details I'll forget until they bite me
[01:54:03] wagnerrp: i think the entire readership of gizmodo gets their statistics from xkcd
[01:54:07] Oleg_: I wonder how long it would take to compile the whole qt4 library on an i7 processor
[01:54:27] iamlindoro_: s/library/toolkit/
[01:54:42] wagnerrp: theres some article about kids who drink lots of sugary, caffeinated drinks are twice as likely to bring weapons to school
[01:55:01] wagnerrp: and a good 2/3rds of the comments are just mindless repeats of 'correlation is not causation'
[01:55:58] ** wagnerrp thinks kids who have never met paul hogan are twice as likely to bring knives to school **
[02:01:17] iamlindoro_: Is that a variant on the Unknown Chuck Norris Roundhouse Kick Mortality Rate?
[02:02:22] wagnerrp: i was implying that after meeting paul hogan, they realize that the sharp thing they have in their picket cannot be considered a knife
[02:02:56] wagnerrp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01NHcTM5IA4#t=0m16s
[02:03:07] wagnerrp: s/picket/pocket/
[02:03:53] iamlindoro_: I realize that;)
[02:04:26] iamlindoro_: I was just offering the well known fact that those who are not aware of Chuck Norris are roughly 100% more likely to die of roundhouse kick related injuries
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[02:11:32] iamlindoro_: Well hello you
[02:11:50] wagnerrp: talking to yourself now eh?
[02:12:06] iamlindo`: Only way to get universal agreement
[02:12:15] iamlindo`: usually
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[02:12:58] Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v iamlindoro
[02:13:09] iamlindoro: BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL
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[02:19:07] wagnerrp: you stabbeth thee?
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[02:37:57] [R]: iamlindoro: you there?
[02:38:37] iamlindoro: depends on how much the next question is likely to irritate me ;)
[02:39:08] [R]: haha, its about arclight... on the watch recordings screen in the list of recordings... there is a middle column and all i see is "N..." in green
[02:39:18] iamlindoro: "New"
[02:39:28] [R]: why is it cutoff? i can see "Recording..." just fine
[02:39:53] iamlindoro: For some reason it's cut off at 1920x1080 and not at 1280x720, I'm not sure why-- and I've never bothered to go back and fix it
[02:40:02] iamlindoro: well, I'm sure why, I've just never fixed it ;)
[02:40:10] [R]: ok, i'll play with it then
[02:40:19] iamlindoro: just needs a couple more horizontal pixels
[02:40:39] [R]: i finally decided to give it a try, and im diggin it
[02:40:52] iamlindoro: glad you like it
[02:40:53] [R]: the old theme i was using the time of the recordings were always cut off and it annoyed me
[02:41:44] [R]: nice clean font too
[02:46:21] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: yep... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki?title=User_talk%3A . . . ;oldid=53452
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[03:21:03] wagnerrp: xris: you around?
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[03:26:09] xris: no
[03:26:13] xris: ;)
[03:26:20] wagnerrp: awesome
[03:26:46] wagnerrp: having a strange problem with mythweb, more of a curiosity than a problem really
[03:26:52] wagnerrp: http://www.wagnerrp.com/files/MythTV/funky_firefox.png
[03:27:05] wagnerrp: trying to write something that generates power rules, it wasnt working
[03:27:17] wagnerrp: so i was trying different things with the where clause
[03:27:21] xris: can you view source on the page to get the full error message?
[03:27:21] wagnerrp: including adding WHERE
[03:27:37] wagnerrp: which of course caused problems, as you can see
[03:27:49] wagnerrp: not a real big issue, i did something bad, mythweb did something bad in return
[03:27:55] wagnerrp: but look at just what it did
[03:27:59] wagnerrp: how is that even possible?
[03:28:12] wagnerrp: its like a strange floating frame
[03:28:36] wagnerrp: it doesnt extend past the top of the firefox window, but it float on top of the top bar
[03:28:59] wagnerrp: that isnt a separate window on top of firefox
[03:29:03] wagnerrp: that is part of firefox
[03:29:03] xris: likely some debug thing left over from an older version of mythweb?
[03:29:16] wagnerrp: no, i mean... mythweb shouldnt even be able to do that to firefox
[03:29:23] wagnerrp: i have no idea what its doing
[03:29:27] xris: oh, I missed that.
[03:29:29] wagnerrp: firefox is unresponsive until i hit 'esc'
[03:29:33] xris: weird. is it firebug?
[03:29:50] xris: I know kormoc put in a bunch of firebug stuff a (long) while back
[03:29:52] wagnerrp: i have firebug installed, you can see the icon in the top right
[03:30:04] wagnerrp: but you can also see the icon is colorless, deactivated
[03:30:15] xris: weird
[03:30:25] xris: odd buggy firebug with its new fast release schedule?
[03:32:30] wagnerrp: maybe?
[03:32:38] wagnerrp: i could deactivate it entirely and see what happens
[03:35:05] xris: maybe it's a js alert dialog? though that should have extended below the bottom, too
[03:35:20] xris: wonder how it'd look in a different OS.
[03:35:41] wagnerrp: disabling firebug made no difference
[03:36:52] wagnerrp: thats 7.0.1 on my desktop
[03:37:07] wagnerrp: lets see what 6.0 on my gentoo laptop does
[03:37:54] wagnerrp: 6.0, its centered in the middle of the window
[03:38:07] wagnerrp: and the rest of the UI is visible
[03:38:12] wagnerrp: i guess thats the proper behavior
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[03:40:13] wagnerrp: i wonder if thats a consequence of the new bar-less firefox
[03:40:55] wagnerrp: the entire top section of the window is rendered, meaning its subject to the whims of web page rendering as well
[03:41:12] wagnerrp: including that gray mask youve got to prevent a user from touching anything while that error dialog is open
[03:42:34] wagnerrp: close, the menu bar itself is covered by the mask
[03:42:38] wagnerrp: but the title bar is not
[03:43:52] xris: hah. I'd call that a bug
[03:44:57] wagnerrp: yeah, i mean whether mythweb is doing anything improper is irrelevant
[03:45:02] wagnerrp: firefox should not allow it to do that
[03:45:25] wagnerrp: its... funky
[03:45:45] Beirdo: ugh
[03:46:03] Beirdo: looks like I'll need to implement a custom decoder based on DecoderBase
[03:46:05] Beirdo: fun
[03:46:49] wagnerrp: ugh... why does this guy want to use mythtv without any guide data?
[03:47:06] [R]: wagnerrp: why not?
[03:47:14] [R]: wagnerrp: i love to just randomly watch stuff w/o knowing what it is
[03:47:26] wagnerrp: yeah, and we all know where that gets you
[03:47:30] wagnerrp: preggo teens
[03:47:34] [R]: HAHA
[03:48:32] xris: because $2/month is too much to pay for SD?
[03:48:44] wagnerrp: no, he doesnt even want EIT data
[03:48:55] wagnerrp: he wants nothing but a bunch of 'Unknown's filling his screen
[03:49:06] wagnerrp: and he wants to schedule each recording manually, time based, using titantv
[03:49:39] xris: crazy.
[03:50:01] wagnerrp: well i wrote this utility
[03:50:14] wagnerrp: it behaves like i think it should (matching against local EPG data)
[03:50:24] wagnerrp: if he doesnt like it, he can write his own
[03:50:31] xris: heh
[03:50:41] wagnerrp: ... which would actually be far easier than what i did
[03:52:25] wagnerrp: i mean its 167 lines, about 30 of comments and blanks, 20 of library imports and fudging with the input parser, and 90 or so trying to find a matching show in the guide based off the information given
[03:52:38] wagnerrp: he only wants that 15 or so lines remaining
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[03:56:24] Beirdo: the only use I could see would be to transfer VHS home movies to the PC, but one doesn't need myth for that
[03:56:42] wagnerrp: or titantv, for that matter
[03:56:53] Beirdo: yeah, cat would do just great
[03:57:17] wagnerrp: i mean he wants to completely bypass mythtv's scheduler and epg handling, instead relying on titantv's
[03:57:34] Beirdo: crazy-ass people
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[04:06:53] xris: wouldn't automating that kind of violate some titantv ToU?
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[04:07:33] wagnerrp: well no, that is the explicit purpose of titantv
[04:07:52] wagnerrp: if you click 'record', you download a little xml file
[04:08:28] wagnerrp: its MIME type is intended to be opened by a help application, which adds the relevant recording rule to whatever PVR software youre using
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[04:08:53] wagnerrp: but its meant for the cheesy little dumb PVRs that come pre-packaged with tuner cards
[04:09:05] wagnerrp: not something with its own EPG data
[04:11:58] wagnerrp: depending on the interpretation of their ToU (no duplication), keeping the title/episode/description may be a violation
[04:12:10] wagnerrp: but then this dumps that information as soon as it finds a match
[04:16:51] xris: on the SD side I know of titan tv as the company that provides that data.. and they wouldn't work with us because we don't make hardware.
[04:17:35] wagnerrp: oh? well that may well be
[04:17:48] wagnerrp: as mentioned, the cheesy little dumb PVRs that come pre-packaged with tuner cards
[04:17:59] xris: yeah. which isn't mythtv
[04:18:13] xris: but maybe he owns a tv card that works for it. heh.  :)
[04:19:10] wagnerrp: hey now... thats starting to sound like claiming rights to guide data just because you bought a copy of windows at some point
[04:19:11] wagnerrp: :P
[04:20:35] wagnerrp: well, i sent an inquiry about how to receive remote scheduling events... so ill find out soon enough
[04:21:25] xris: heh
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[04:23:32] wagnerrp: their terms of use are extremely limited
[04:23:35] wagnerrp: http://www.titantv.com/terms.aspx
[04:23:53] wagnerrp: like i said, as far as i can tell, youre simply not supposed to duplicate their data elsewhere
[04:24:22] wagnerrp: by 'limited' i mean 'short'... just one paragraph, and then several more indemnifying themselves against harm
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[04:33:51] sphery: wagnerrp: only custom rules for matching title and subtitle... "this episode" rules for specific showings, but you have to pick which one
[04:34:09] wagnerrp: yeah, i got it working using a custom rule
[04:34:14] sphery: don't know if davide's new filters allow for title/subtitle matching...
[04:34:24] wagnerrp: actually, im a bit confused
[04:34:36] wagnerrp: i know i wrote some code to automatically generate the queries for such things
[04:34:39] wagnerrp: but i couldnt find it
[04:35:19] sphery: generate which queries?
[04:35:23] sphery: for custom rules?
[04:35:27] wagnerrp: yes
[04:41:46] sphery: hmmm... I kind of remember seeing that, but can't find it
[04:41:54] sphery: thought you mentioned it in a post
[04:42:29] sphery: when users were complaining about how custom rules are too hard to write--and, IIRC, I mentioned davide's filters in that thread, too
[04:43:02] wagnerrp: i think i added it as a special method to the databaseSearch decorator
[04:43:20] wagnerrp: which powers all those searchRecorded/searchVideos/searchGuide/search... tools
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[04:47:32] wagnerrp: oh, there it is
[04:47:49] wagnerrp: MythDB.makePowerRule
[04:48:05] wagnerrp: of course it has to be there
[04:48:17] ** wagnerrp smacks himself around a bit **
[04:49:14] sphery: hehe
[04:51:29] wagnerrp: seems it needs to be tweaked a bit
[04:52:14] wagnerrp: the query generator only bothers adding the table name to the fields if you feed it multiple tables
[04:52:40] wagnerrp: while the scheduler always uses multiple tables and always needs the table name
[04:54:48] wagnerrp: chuck starts back up friday
[04:55:00] ** sphery is watching chuck right now **
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[04:56:55] wagnerrp: oh yeah thats nice!
[04:58:17] ** wagnerrp needs to add more fancy querying capabilities to this thing **
[05:02:28] wagnerrp: sphery: give me some of your power fules
[05:02:30] wagnerrp: rules
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[05:05:38] sphery: wagnerrp: http://pastebin.com/45ihWxae
[05:05:45] sphery: I pity the fule...
[05:06:12] sphery: that's all of mine
[05:06:31] wagnerrp: program.first > 0?
[05:06:34] wagnerrp: not !=0?
[05:09:17] wagnerrp: well ive got no way of handling ORs
[05:09:26] wagnerrp: and no idea of how to even try
[05:12:29] wagnerrp: well i can do 4 and 5 right now
[05:13:05] wagnerrp: i could do 2 and 3, but im not sure if adding cross references to recorded and recordedprogram to the guide search makes sense
[05:13:09] wagnerrp: 1 is right out
[05:14:25] sphery: it's from the example clause in the custom rule editor
[05:14:40] wagnerrp: #1 is?
[05:14:41] sphery: perhaps it's like: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/494021#494021
[05:14:51] sphery: program.first > 0 is
[05:15:10] sphery: and, yeah, most of #1 is... just added the or for pilot
[05:15:54] sphery: see CustomEdit::loadClauses()
[05:16:01] sphery: programs/mythfrontend/customedit.cpp
[05:18:40] wagnerrp: the ORs kill me, as do matching one value to another outside of table joins
[05:19:47] wagnerrp: but... i can probably implement most of those stock searches
[05:20:16] sphery: yeah, if nothing else, just code them in, as in customedit
[05:20:25] wagnerrp: and i can do one better on the credits search (courtesy of kormoc)
[05:20:51] sphery: cool
[05:20:58] sphery: feel free to update the customexample :)
[05:22:24] wagnerrp: db.makePowerRule('blah', cast="Nathan Fillion, Stana Katic") yields...
[05:22:31] wagnerrp: (SELECT COUNT( DISTINCT people.name ) FROM credits JOIN people ON people.person=credits.person WHERE credits.chanid=program.chanid AND credits.starttime=program.starttime AND (people.name="Nathan Fillion" OR people.name="Stana Katic"))=2
[05:22:58] sphery: now you made me miss my castle
[05:23:06] wagnerrp: hehe
[05:23:49] wagnerrp: you can expand the length of that cast list until the scheduler blows up
[05:24:20] sphery: blows up meaning grinds to a halt
[05:24:22] sphery: or?
[05:24:40] wagnerrp: chokes because you gave it such a monstrously long query
[05:25:00] wagnerrp: after all, the WHERE is stored in the description
[05:25:05] sphery: hehe, so maybe a max length for mysql queries?
[05:25:05] wagnerrp: which allows up to 16000 characters
[05:25:19] sphery: oh, I see
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[05:29:57] wagnerrp: do we have any sanity checking on these power rules?
[05:30:07] wagnerrp: or can one bad rule break the whole scheduler?
[05:32:33] wagnerrp: like some kind of routine that tries each individually just to make sure its valid SQL
[05:33:32] sphery: only sanity checking is to run a test schedule before saving it
[05:34:03] wagnerrp: ah, i should do such in the bindings
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[08:13:40] Beirdo: I think I can test this now... need to force a recording
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[08:17:47] scott__: HI MythTV users- sorry for the crosspost from #ubuntu-mythtv for anybody listening on both IRCs..
[08:17:54] scott__: anyway reposting my question:
[08:17:55] scott__: okay throwing out a quick question if anyone could help Id be greatful- Ive got a frontend/backend mythbuntu server setup attached to a projecter for movie viewing in my house. I want to be able to remotely control it via laptop
[08:17:55] scott__: in order to have it play music. However I want the sound to come out of the mythubuntu server itself- not from the remotly connecting laptop.. so myth frontend in that remote laptop isnt an option.
[08:17:55] scott__: Is there any way to do something like this other than doing a remote desktop session? I was kind of hoping mymote etc would allow you to browse your music etc collection and have them play but you need to have a screen up (the projecter in this case) in order to navigate the pages
[08:17:55] scott__: I want to navigate and play stuff on the server, from the servers speaker output etc, with a remote interface or laptop.
[08:17:56] scott__: But I dont want to have to turn on the projector every time I want to play an audio file... I hope Im making sense this is kind of a convoluted question
[08:17:58] scott__: anyway if anyone has any advice Id appreciate it and thanks for your help in advance
[08:18:48] dekarl: wagnerrp: did you see this? It's basically an API that returns a container full of TVPI files. (19:22:49) dekarl: wagnerrp: remote scheduling is here but the description ... has potential for improvement ... http://www.titantv.com/Services/PartnerTools.asmx
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[08:47:00] prologic: AFD Error: Unknown audio decoding error
[08:47:09] prologic: Anyone know why I'm getting these in the mythbackend logs?
[08:48:00] Beirdo: because there's glitchiness in a recording
[08:48:51] Beirdo: and that's likely in mythcommflag or mythpreviewgen, not mythbackend
[09:10:13] Beirdo: Pffft
[09:10:19] Beirdo: Probe failed
[09:10:24] Beirdo: bed time!
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[09:30:25] ahhughez: good evening. Task #532647 is for me to work out how I can configure a quick single press of the cases power button to shut down myth gracefully. It seems to just shut it down without setting all the wakeup stuff like mythwelcome does. So..... what the hell am I asking for?
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[09:32:33] dekarl: you want to skip the idle waiting period?
[09:33:40] dekarl: just call "mythshutdown --safeshutdown" (or similar) in your power button handler
[09:35:02] ahhughez: looks like I need to change the command in /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh
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[09:35:44] ahhughez: from `/sbin/shutdown -h now "Power button pressed"` to whatever the mythshutdown command is
[09:36:55] dekarl: correct, mythshutdown will then check if it's safe to shutdown and call whatever you've configured to do (likely /sbin/shutdown -h now, or similar)
[09:37:22] dekarl: of, and it will program the wakeup for the next recording, too
[09:39:38] ahhughez: what does, can shutdown safely mean? I want this to shutdown the frontend too.... basically everything unless its recording or doing some mission critical processing. Even if Im watching tv and hit the power button I still want it to turn off.
[09:39:53] ahhughez: basically off should turn off, unless recording.
[09:40:18] dekarl: wagnerrp: nice script, but why "c.mplexid == 32767 and \"? for finding the correct channel? leftovers from testing?
[09:40:39] dekarl: ahhughez: see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythshutdown
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[09:44:27] ahhughez: I think what I am actually asking for is to shut the front end down. Then *if* the backend is not doing anything it will timeout and shut itself down
[09:45:00] ahhughez: then... when recording/processing does finish then it will shut itself down.
[09:45:59] dekarl: that might work by disconnection the shutdown hook in the os and setting up a jumppoint "exit frontend now, no questions asked" on the power button. I don't know if that jumppoint already exists
[09:46:28] ahhughez: you just made me feel like a total n00b
[09:48:35] dekarl: ok, you want to make linux ignore the power button (depends on your linux flavour)
[09:48:46] ahhughez: actually, looks like mythshutdown has no consideration for the frontend anyway
[09:49:10] dekarl: correct, I think it's ignored
[09:50:05] dekarl: then setup inputlirc to handle your power button like a remote control and configure it to send two keys X/Y, configure these keys in mythtv to call the jumppoint "mainmenu" and then "exit without asking"
[09:50:14] ahhughez: but I still need to shut down the front end regardless of weather the backend is busy or not
[09:50:17] dekarl: or simply change the shutdown.sh script ;)
[09:50:40] ahhughez: simple suits me!
[09:50:56] dekarl: frontend/backend is combined on one machine, correct?
[09:51:03] ahhughez: bingo
[09:51:15] ahhughez: mythbuntu to tell you the truth
[09:51:46] dekarl: sounds good, I use it to and it seems to be the closest you can get to a "MythTV Appliance" at the moment
[09:52:25] ahhughez: yeah I think the "simple" solution is to just shut down the front end and have mythwelcome take care of the clean shutdown e.t.c.
[09:52:54] ahhughez: I guess the only thing that borks this is if they have locked shutdown... but that's what locking is I guess
[09:53:53] dekarl: sounds good. But then you're back to "how to make the power button on the case exit mythfrontend"
[09:54:18] dekarl: change the powerbtn.sh script to call "killall mythfrontend" :)
[09:54:38] dekarl: and mythfrontend.real
[09:56:23] dekarl: hmm, only "killall mythfrontend.real" as mythfrontend is the script that will be calling mythwelcome on mythbuntu....
[09:56:24] ahhughez: is there no command for that?
[09:56:41] dekarl: command for what?
[09:56:51] ahhughez: shutdown the frontend
[09:57:27] dekarl: I don't think so. Sending it a kill signal is some kind of command.
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[09:58:52] ahhughez: how can I see what mythshutdown runs, maybe I can just copy/paste that
[09:59:06] dekarl: think of "kill" as pushing the power button and "kill -9" as pulling the plug. The normal kill is handled by the applications and might ask all kind of "want to save your work" stuff
[09:59:29] dekarl: no you can't because you want to do something different
[10:00:09] ahhughez: sorry to hammer you with all these questions dekarl
[10:00:58] dekarl: The setup I have in mind at the moment is: running mythbuntu with ACPI wakeup using mythwelcome and mythshutdown etc. your personal modification is that you want the case power button to kill the frontend regardless of what the frontend is doing so mythwelcome can take over.
[10:01:33] ahhughez: spot on!
[10:02:18] dekarl: and I take it the first part (ACPI wakeup and automatic shutdown) is already working. Then it's as simple as changing the acpi/powerbutton script to kill the frontend => profit!
[10:02:36] ahhughez: yes, and yes.
[10:03:12] ahhughez: acpi works like a dream (providing I dont use the case power button at the moment)
[10:04:39] dekarl: the powerbtn.sh script is quite long, I would rename it to *.orig and place a script there with just "#!/bin/sh" and "/usr/bin/killall mythfrontend.real" in it
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[10:05:09] dekarl: don't forget the "chmod a+x /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh" when you're done
[10:05:23] dekarl: that should be all it takes
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[10:06:29] ahhughez: yup, killall mythtvfrontend.real did what I wanted... I will put that in the power.sh script and test now... back in a few mins if this works...
[10:07:25] ahhughez: I should not need to chomd it tho if it runs now tho?
[10:08:29] dekarl: if you move the original script out of the way and replace it with a new file, then you must give it the same flags so it's executeable, too
[10:08:48] dekarl: if you just copy or edit in place then everything is correct already
[10:08:54] ahhughez: .orig will be the copy :)
[10:09:21] dekarl: then no need for chmod
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[10:24:45] ahhughez: yay it works!
[10:27:29] dekarl: Nice! Now I wonder how to document that simple solution on the wiki somewhere... If you got an idea just do it :)
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[10:30:25] ahhughez: dekarl, I will try add it to the wiki after :) thanks heaps fior yiour help!!!!
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[10:37:26] justinh: hahaha. somebody's myth backend sucking £100 a year's worth of power?
[10:37:58] justinh: oh wait. that's right. mine does. whoops
[10:38:31] dekarl: I was about to hint that an off the shelf pc more/less running made a difference of 400 Deutschmarks back in the days of yore... sounds about right.
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[11:09:47] ahhughez: so where on the wiki should you/you/somebody document powershut down? I think this is really realated to mythwelcome
[11:10:41] ahhughez: also, on a positive note... for the first time ever. This apple bluetooth keyboard and magic track pad are working perfectly.
[11:11:11] ** ahhughez thinks its time to make a backup. **
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[11:15:50] dekarl: ahhughez: how about this page then? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythwelcome
[11:16:33] dekarl: basically as point 3.6: "how to quit the frontend quickly when you're done"
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[11:39:05] ahhughez: dekarl, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythwelcome#Config . . . 8optional.29
[11:39:19] ahhughez: all done.
[11:39:36] ahhughez: feel free to improve it if you are bored enough :)
[11:44:51] dekarl: a hint that this example applies to MythBuntu version x would be good. (because you leave all the desktop power management stuff in the script, no idea what that does)
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[11:54:34] ahhughez: added
[11:54:44] ahhughez: its bed time, ciao
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[14:49:36] iamlindoro_: Well there's my first gotcha... script to update my dynamic dns is got wiped out
[14:49:46] wagnerrp: whoops!
[14:50:02] wagnerrp: just dyndns? or what service?
[14:50:21] iamlindoro_: some random free one
[14:50:44] iamlindoro_: just needs periodic poking when the external changes
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[14:52:08] justinh: whaaaa? sync to vblank isn't in intel video drivers? AT ALL? :-O
[14:53:59] justinh: (according to their own website). Boo
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[14:55:12] justinh: so ends this new chapter in trying to get flash to play without god-awful tearing on intel video hardware
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[15:07:51] justinh: ROFL. Playing around with the frontend under VNC & the flash video window is drawing flawlessly smoothly remotely
[15:08:22] wagnerrp: well of course!
[15:08:23] justinh: no tearing there
[15:08:47] justinh: hard to tell if it's *full* framerate, but it doesn't look at all jerky or anything
[15:08:49] wagnerrp: its not like its spending extra effort trying to do something funky and stupid like software video rendering
[15:08:55] wagnerrp: because... well... it already does that anyway
[15:08:56] wagnerrp: :)
[15:09:46] justinh: I found a site which talks about intel flash video sucking more than most stuff – but what they're doing there looks way too involved for me to bother. this is only for iplayer initially, and we already get that on cable
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[15:13:57] justinh: wha? seems like the VGA card in my backend may already have svideo out. I could get rid of my frontend right now. Haha. (if true)
[15:14:45] justinh: it's not as if we need an optical drive anymore. not since I blocked all the AV gear in behind perspex to protect it from The Thomas
[15:15:28] ** justinh goes to investigate **
[15:15:39] wagnerrp: bah!
[15:16:03] wagnerrp: the terminal on mythtv.org flushes out your backlog as you exit
[15:16:27] wagnerrp: i was planning on pulling something out of my buffer that no longer exists
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[15:21:08] justinh: blah. analogue VGA, DVI & HDMI. My memory is shot to hell. This is what I get for being 'ready' for the future. heh
[15:21:45] wagnerrp: what do you need svideo for?
[15:21:49] wagnerrp: new frontend out of old tv?
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[15:38:14] dekarl: wagnerrp: btw, where's the code that make mythtv.org and services.mythtv.org tick stored? Either I'm blind or it's not on github
[15:38:40] wagnerrp: on mythtv.org
[15:38:48] wagnerrp: i think much/all of it exists in no repository
[15:39:46] dekarl: ok, then I'm not blind at least
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[16:40:51] MrPaco__: a-forest theme is pretty
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[16:54:57] sphery: Wow, it seems like this Raymond guy is trying to make a point in the ESXi thread... Not sure, but maybe he's saying that you don't need virtualization to run multiple programs on a computer.
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[16:59:41] sphery: ah, now I see--it seems that virtualization provides security. the things I learn on the users list.
[17:00:11] sphery: I think the worst part, though, is the, "Actually, it's working quite well. I was able to change comflagging from low priority (23 minutes for an hour show) to medium priority (now 3 minutes!!)" claim.
[17:00:36] wagnerrp: i had to explain to them what was going on there
[17:01:50] wagnerrp: its limited to lieke 15–20% in that mode isnt it?
[17:02:56] sphery: yeah... I was just about to when I saw your reply. Been trying to avoid the thread, but when that came back up, I decided someone needed to say something.
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[17:06:30] sphery: not sure how much it sleeps for
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[17:08:51] wagnerrp: im seeing 10ms per frame
[17:08:56] wagnerrp: but that doesnt seem right
[17:09:37] wagnerrp: i mean youre still using ~70% of the processor on commflagging at that point
[17:10:27] wagnerrp: 62.5% anyway
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[17:19:12] sphery: yeah, it looks like it scales the sleep amount based on certain criteria... basically, looked like it was complex enough I didn't feel like digging. I'm sure Capt M would have a pretty good idea of how it works.
[17:19:38] wagnerrp: when following an in-progress recording, it has a variable sleep
[17:20:05] wagnerrp: but it looks like if youre just running !fullSpeed, it uses a static 10k usec sleep
[17:22:22] sphery: 10ms per frame... where in a 30fps, that's about 2/3 real time decoding. in a 60fps, that's down to about 1/3 real time decoding. but, in a 24fps, that's closer to 3/4 real time
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[17:23:17] sphery: wonder if it should be a per-second sleep (i.e. ensure we sleep at least 1/3 of each second of real time or something to make it more consistent?)
[17:24:02] wagnerrp: wonder if it should be removed, and people with such incapable hardware should upgrade
[17:24:11] sphery: though the current approach is nice and simple--and made a lot of sense when basically all recordings were 30fps or 25fps (NTSC/PAL)
[17:24:18] sphery: hehe, yeah, that works, too
[17:26:21] sphery: wow, I'm using medium, and I haven't changed it since I was using my original equipment--an Athlon XP 1700+
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[18:48:25] wagnerrp: why do spam bots so frequently do things like generate a block of accounts with exactly the same character length user name?
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[19:00:11] justinh: why do spam bots even exist?
[19:07:59] sphery: if you're really interested in how they're making money, watch http://www.usenix.org/events/atc11/stream/savage/index.html ... It's very informative (but rather long). Beirdo gave me the link--this was one of the talks he saw at USENIX.
[19:09:58] justinh: ugh. needs quicktime. no way jose
[19:10:42] justinh: duh. they have a download video linky
[19:10:53] Beirdo: hehe
[19:10:57] sphery: yeah, I dl'ed and watched with xine
[19:10:58] wagnerrp: i think VLC tried to open it for me
[19:11:05] wagnerrp: (in the browser)
[19:11:06] Beirdo: it's MPEG4, IIRC
[19:11:11] wagnerrp: yeah
[19:11:13] justinh: yeah .mp4
[19:11:38] Beirdo: they had a nifty encoder box that would do MP4 encoding on the fly from several cameras with compositing
[19:11:54] Beirdo: the video was available online about 15min after the talk finished
[19:12:01] ** Beirdo drools **
[19:12:40] justinh: heh. a far cry from the LRL videos which took months to surface
[19:12:41] wagnerrp: hehe... the term 'network telescope' is amusing
[19:12:55] sphery: I'm sure they were just using a standard Pentium 4 3GHz with about 12 VMWare DOMs on it
[19:13:08] Beirdo: hehe
[19:13:09] sphery: turns one computer into a computer that can run 12 programs!
[19:13:21] Beirdo: it was a 2U rackmount box IIRC
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[19:13:28] justinh: my guess is that spammers are only making money from people with fresh labotomies
[19:13:37] sphery: seems that's a part of it
[19:13:45] wagnerrp: Beirdo: does that mean you need a supercomputer cluster to run bash scripts?
[19:13:58] justinh: I guess there must be cash in ruining the internet somehow
[19:13:59] sphery: most money, it seems, is from selling/leasing botnets for nefarious purposes
[19:14:08] Beirdo: hehehe
[19:14:30] justinh: the site I run is based on WP. thankfully it doesn't get much hassle
[19:14:49] justinh: but what it does get – jees. it's *jibberish* – mostly just link farming
[19:15:03] sphery: they did say that the companies selling stuff through e-mail marketing tended to do better than most legit ones at actually completing orders--because they can't have the banks looking into their business
[19:15:19] sphery: "you always got something"
[19:15:29] justinh: surprisingly, the majority of that is people selling SEO. So anything, or anybody with anything to do with SEO, to me, is just SCUM
[19:16:37] justinh: email spam still going? Heh. I see the occasional 419er in my gmail spam folder about once a week – and that's from the admin address of the website I run
[19:16:43] wagnerrp: "attackers could care less"... how much less?
[19:17:06] wagnerrp: justinh: did you not get a mythtv.org email address?
[19:17:25] justinh: wagnerrp: no. why would I need one? I'm not even on the top secret ML ;)
[19:19:35] justinh: ARGHH. Can we just let the arrow accelerator thing DIE now please? GRRRRRRR
[19:21:45] wagnerrp: 'they are administered by all the people in the world, according to the whims of how they should be administered'
[19:21:55] justinh: "While perhaps universally useful the real reason for this enhancement is to address the loss of arrow acceleration when we allowed themes to use horizontal layouts."
[19:21:57] wagnerrp: hahaha... silly speaker, end user computers arent administered
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[19:22:03] justinh: enhancement. Pfft
[19:23:01] justinh: I always thought that the right arrow being pressed when a recording was highlighted should have resulted in it being played, not a menu popping up
[19:23:51] sphery: wagnerrp: so, all the reasons why you should run mythtv in a vm boil down to, "Because it makes sense to run <programs that aren't MythTV> in a VM"?
[19:23:56] justinh: & then when playing a recording, pressing LEFT should by rights take you back to the PBB
[19:24:41] sphery: um, but what about skip back?
[19:24:50] sphery: users shouldn't be able to do that?
[19:25:18] wagnerrp: thats what rewind/seekback is for
[19:25:26] wagnerrp: oh, you dont have those? buy a better remote!
[19:25:27] wagnerrp: :)
[19:26:03] sphery: no way would I use rewind
[19:26:15] justinh: sphery: if people are prattling on about button behaviour being *consistent* that's where it's going
[19:26:18] sphery: I don't care to see random pictures pop up when I want to skip back 15s
[19:26:36] wagnerrp: sphery: im talking about two separate buttons
[19:26:39] justinh: if LEFT always takes you back to the last place you were in one screen, it has to be that way on every screen
[19:26:45] justinh: :D
[19:26:50] sphery: ohh, yeah
[19:26:54] sphery: I see what you mean
[19:26:58] justinh: consistency
[19:27:10] wagnerrp: the thing thats normally for changing disks
[19:27:30] wagnerrp: although potentially that should be used for moving around a playlist
[19:27:41] sphery: and, yeah, that's not the consistency I was looking for--I just wanted all dialogs to behave the same rather than left/right working on some (with some types of widgets in them) but not on others
[19:27:46] justinh: I dunno why I've got my knickers in a twist about, in theory this shouldn't affect anybody who isn't using a theme where the controls are remapped
[19:28:25] justinh: sphery: yeah sadly it seems it's been jumped on & misappropriated
[19:28:34] sphery: wagnerrp: yeah, since left/right work for skip, I had used them and then also mapped ffwd/rew to ffwd/rew, even though I've never intentionally used ffwd/rew on a video
[19:30:00] sphery: justinh: though some are complaining about "the key accelerator changes"--and using it as a call-to-arms to have people go out and put the overrides in every single theme "because that's the way it should always work"
[19:30:21] sphery: btw, we /really/ need to kill off the mythtv-themes repo
[19:30:24] ** wagnerrp loves the fact that malware toolkits get pirated **
[19:30:48] sphery: users still installing that--and, it seems, in some cases getting a 0.22 mythtv-themes on 0.24 systems or whatever
[19:30:57] sphery: or at least it's not cleaning up the old themes
[19:31:07] justinh: sphery: I'm totally with you on the menu consistency. How I've longed to be able to navigate back a tad rather than go all the way back out again
[19:31:22] sphery: wagnerrp: yeah... almost as nice as the thought of someone "pirating" mc2xml
[19:31:44] ** Beirdo enjoys the killer bass line that is "Another One Bites The Dust" in honor of a coworker resigning. **
[19:31:50] justinh: heh I saw a tweet where somebody was whining mc2xml had disappeared the other day
[19:32:12] sphery: justinh: yeah, but it needs to be done that way everywhere--not just in some menu (with menu specific code) that happens to be used frequently by the dev who put it there
[19:32:15] justinh: felt like replying saying "haha. Serves you right, THIEF"
[19:32:23] sphery: if that's how menus work, that's how all menus should work
[19:32:35] justinh: oh god yeah
[19:32:38] sphery: it disappeared?
[19:32:45] justinh: sphery: apparently so
[19:32:50] Beirdo: I hope it stays disappeared
[19:33:09] sphery: nice!!!
[19:33:15] Beirdo: but anything else in the pest family (like the cockroach), it's probably just hiding
[19:33:16] justinh: anyway FWIW I've found that horizontal menus don't get much love in my house
[19:33:26] ** sphery wonders if it was stupid to use (Microsoft) Bing to search for mc2xml page **
[19:33:33] Beirdo: hehehe
[19:33:39] wagnerrp: justinh: it disappears all the time
[19:33:44] sphery: ah, seems it's actually there, now... http://mc2xml.my3gb.com/
[19:33:47] sphery: :(
[19:33:51] wagnerrp: one website gets taken down, another one on another comain pops up
[19:33:55] justinh: sphery: not for me
[19:34:18] sphery: maybe that's that new UK "ISPs block copyright-infringing sites"?
[19:34:26] justinh: eek. it's on google code
[19:34:41] wagnerrp: doesnt google code require open source?
[19:34:41] sphery: "DonationWare: If this software is useful to you please donate!"
[19:35:13] justinh: how do you report a program used for stealing copyrighted information?
[19:35:16] sphery: s/*/DonationWare: If this software makes it easier for you to steal listings data, please send me money."
[19:35:22] Beirdo: wagnerrp: they use the same hosts as the spammers
[19:35:45] Beirdo: "bulletproof hosting"
[19:35:45] sphery: I tried forever to find a place to report some programs to Google, but couldn't find anything
[19:35:48] Beirdo: or they should
[19:36:07] wagnerrp: sphery: im getting a server error on that link
[19:36:10] justinh: right. I'm reporting 'yatvgrabber;
[19:36:20] sphery: was going to send a complaint about some programs that filter the "who stole this rip of a movie" info from file names
[19:36:34] sphery: wagnerrp: on the actual home page or download? I've only hit the home page
[19:36:47] sphery: don't want to actually even start a download
[19:36:51] wagnerrp: that exact link
[19:37:38] sphery: shows up for me--and has an icon in "Downloads (v1.1)" section that says, "Updated!" on 09/2011
[19:37:51] justinh: ugh. you can only report your own copyright being violated
[19:37:53] sphery: it was very slow, though
[19:38:30] justinh: bah. it's only a script to wrap mc2xml on google code
[19:38:57] sphery: "Microsoft's (newest) service: If you have used Windows 7 you might have noticed more program information in the guide. It uses a completely new TV data service that seems to support everything that the microsoft legacy service supported, but adds full ATSC/subchannel support ("Digital Terrestrial"), plus listings include writer/producer credits, some season info, DVD cover & program images, as well as other miscellaneous program details. ...
[19:39:03] sphery: ... (note: Microsoft might have a North American focus?)"
[19:39:04] sphery: "Support for this new service in mc2xml is working, and now donators above the $20 level are welcome to request this version if they want to try it out (please specify operating system).
[19:39:20] sphery: If you give me enough money, I'll let you steal even *more* info
[19:40:24] sphery: I wonder if we could get someone to officially complain about the use of mythtv logo (and instructions for use with mythtv) on that page
[19:40:48] Beirdo: or complain to the processors of the donations that they are breaking the law
[19:40:50] justinh: this is the kind of thing copyright lawsuits should be used for. stop people infringing copyright
[19:41:08] justinh: surely MS are onto them
[19:41:22] wagnerrp: i dont think MS really cares
[19:41:23] Beirdo: they are based in Canada last I heard
[19:41:38] Beirdo: MS cares, but not enough to crucify them yet, apparently
[19:41:55] Beirdo: we should start sending emails to piracy@microsoft.com about them
[19:41:57] wagnerrp: its not copyright, its computer intrusion
[19:42:12] Beirdo: no, it's copyritght
[19:42:20] Beirdo: but the copyright is TMS'
[19:42:25] justinh: the data is copyrighted information
[19:42:28] wagnerrp: yeah, but computer intrusion is a much worse crime
[19:42:48] Beirdo: they are hacking MS to get at TMS' copyright data, and that's what they should go to federal bang-me-in-the-ass prison for
[19:43:02] Beirdo: that and for being jerks :)
[19:43:50] dekarl: you are kidding, right? Of all payment providers Paypal is the one that'll freeze their account on a whim :D
[19:43:56] ** justinh gives up downloading that mp4 video **
[19:44:22] Beirdo: well, then let's all start complaining at PayPal
[19:47:15] justinh: sphery: aha! forget LEFT & RIGHT. It's all about BACK & SELECT buttons here.
[19:47:24] justinh: no back button? get a better remote
[19:49:01] sphery: hehe, yeah
[19:49:39] Beirdo: no kidding :)
[19:49:59] wagnerrp: but apple wont sell me a better remote
[19:50:15] sphery: Are you Siri-ous?
[19:50:54] sphery: you shouldn't be pushing buttons--just say some words, a recording can be sent to Apple's servers, then they will send a command down to your MythTV box
[19:51:00] sphery: it's all about the cloud these days
[19:51:33] justinh: and won't it be useful for Apple to have a record of everything you ever do?
[19:51:49] Beirdo: why not? Google does
[19:51:52] wagnerrp: siri does not do local processing?
[19:51:57] justinh: wagnerrp: nope
[19:52:02] wagnerrp: yeouch
[19:52:02] justinh: sequences shortened
[19:52:10] justinh: like google voice search
[19:52:35] justinh: I've seen it demoed on BBC's 'Click' programme. It's not quick
[19:52:46] justinh: but the voice recognition is pretty good
[19:53:27] sphery: a friend of mine who just upgraded her 4 to a 4s demo'ed it for a group of us--and it kept getting the words wrong (tried to have it call one of the group, and it was trying to text them)
[19:54:20] sphery: though I'd guess with server-side voice recognition, they could potentially use better/more-resource-intensive voice processing than, for example, an Android phone with local voice recognition
[19:54:23] justinh: sphery: you lot & your special English ;)
[19:54:52] justinh: isn't all the droid voice stuff done on a server somewhere?
[19:54:53] sphery: hehe, Inq or Reg said it apparently doesn't understand, er, British
[19:54:57] justinh: I've never bothered with it
[19:55:18] sphery: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2117 . . . lls-short-uk
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[19:57:03] justinh: anyway how *do* you make 0.24 more like 0.21? Patch some asserts in there? ;)
[19:57:41] wagnerrp: $0.50/1000 captchas solved?
[19:58:22] sphery: justinh: I think the right approach is: https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/tree/fixes/0.21
[19:58:41] sphery: and/or click the "Fork" button on that page
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[20:00:46] justinh: oh, speaking of asserts... could somebody take a peek at a backtrace for me? I was having a problem with mythvideo crashing every time I tried to play a video I'd changed recently. I can't reproduce it anymore – fixed it by removing the video & re-adding it. I'm just wondering if this is a good backtrace or whatever http://pastebin.com/eEp0yXKb
[20:03:33] sphery: it's missing symbols for mythvideo, so it's not a simple one to parse
[20:04:14] sphery: (until Beirdo fixed the plugin build to pay attention to flags set for the main build, it was impossible to do a debug or profile build of plugins)
[20:04:20] sphery: now in master, you can
[20:05:01] sphery: but, that said, it seems that something in the ItemDetailPopup was causing issues when you clicked the button (play?)
[20:05:51] justinh: yeah I clicked the play button
[20:06:02] justinh: then it just bombed out. every time
[20:06:32] sphery: yeah, seems it was doing a bad function call?
[20:06:42] justinh: I tried with -v gui,extra to see if it was something missing, tried a different theme...
[20:06:45] sphery: through the MOC stuff?
[20:06:53] ** wagnerrp wonders if spammers should be teaching business classes **
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[20:07:15] justinh: sphery: MOC?
[20:07:53] sphery: meta-object compiler stuff--qt's code for handling signals/slots (and other?) qt stuff?
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[20:08:04] Beirdo: moc can bite me
[20:08:44] sphery: Beirdo might have a guess on that backtrace...
[20:09:00] justinh: anyway I removed the video & re-added it then all was well again
[20:09:04] sphery: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/metaobjects.ht . . . bject-system about MOC stuff
[20:09:17] sphery: yeah, it sounds like an invalid data thing
[20:09:39] sphery: just don't konw which data (nor how the play mechanism works--so why it would be affected by data)
[20:10:14] justinh: the file was one of my DVD rips, which I'd found not to have a working audio track, so I re-transcoded it & dropped the file on top
[20:10:56] justinh: after scanning for changes I figured mythvideo would know it was different so didn't worry about it
[20:10:59] Beirdo: let me take a quick look
[20:11:18] justinh: it's a pretty edgy case, but might be something to watch for
[20:12:36] Beirdo: hmm, dunno off hand, sorry
[20:12:40] justinh: no problem
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[20:12:51] Beirdo: without the debug symbols in the plugins, it is pretty hard to debug :)
[20:13:04] justinh: it might crop up again when somebody updates a file already in mythvideo's database & tries to play it
[20:13:55] Beirdo: oh, quite likely
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[20:14:39] Beirdo: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/relatived . . . l-the-moveme
[20:14:42] Beirdo: :)
[20:14:44] Beirdo: fun stuff
[20:15:17] sphery: Beirdo: hehe, yeah, I was thinking a reprap would be cool
[20:15:35] Beirdo: pledge $1k and you would have one :)
[20:15:41] sphery: the new one is really nice... just not really useful to me, yet (for the cost--of the machine + just printing)
[20:16:02] Beirdo: I'm doing $125 to get the parts. I htink I can get them locally for about the same anyways
[20:16:18] Beirdo: and... the software to drive it... Linux :)
[20:16:28] justinh: oh noes! not linux
[20:16:34] justinh: I hear that's really hard to use
[20:16:48] justinh: oh wait. put it on a VM on your windows 7 box
[20:16:50] Beirdo: hehe, not half as hard as the 3D CAD programs
[20:16:52] justinh: solved :D
[20:16:58] sphery: hehe, I was about to say the same about vm
[20:17:01] Beirdo: I have Windows 7 at my desk at work
[20:17:17] Beirdo: so I can get this Sandybridge POS working with our corporate image
[20:17:23] justinh: I have windows 7 on my desktop machine. it's not bad as windows goes
[20:17:26] Beirdo: and it will become MY workstation :)
[20:17:30] sphery: wow, they have a travel-sized Mendel
[20:17:36] sphery: http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page
[20:17:41] Beirdo: corporate Debian image that is
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[20:18:12] sphery: the coolest thing is how they use reprap to make new repraps
[20:18:20] Beirdo: yeah
[20:18:28] sphery: soon, the replicators will take over this quadrant of the galaxy
[20:18:34] Beirdo: I wonder if I shouldn't get Prusa parts instead of Mendel parts...
[20:18:53] sphery: build a prusa, then use it to build an original mendel
[20:18:58] Beirdo: got a month to decide
[20:19:04] Beirdo: nah
[20:19:12] sphery: you could even build a darwin, then go mendel :)
[20:19:13] Beirdo: build a Huxley, and use it to build a Mendel
[20:19:20] sphery: hehe, yeah, that would work
[20:19:53] Beirdo: hmmm, they suggest to start with the Prusa
[20:20:07] sphery: yeah, "faster, easier-to-build"
[20:20:21] sphery: sounds like our suggesting people start with -fixes (and, preferrably, using packages)
[20:20:58] sphery: are you buying printed parts for it?
[20:21:16] Beirdo: I funded that kickstart, and will take the parts as a reward :)
[20:22:25] sphery: hehe, cool
[20:22:39] wagnerrp: how much does the feedstock for one of those things cost?
[20:23:02] Beirdo: not sure
[20:23:14] wagnerrp: the carts we use arent particularly cheap
[20:23:18] Beirdo: there's a place locally that has them though, so I could find out
[20:23:23] sphery: http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Printing_Material_Suppliers
[20:23:38] sphery: (is that what you mean by feedstock?)
[20:23:48] wagnerrp: perhaps... if the page opens
[20:23:51] wagnerrp: there it is
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[20:23:56] Beirdo: yeah
[20:24:29] Beirdo: OK, changed my reward to the prusa parts
[20:24:53] wagnerrp: its just a spool of thin thermoplastic wire, maybe 20 gage or so
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[20:25:06] wagnerrp: in a big cartridge
[20:26:02] Beirdo: need more toys
[20:26:03] Beirdo: heh
[20:26:26] Beirdo: and this could be used to fabricate even more toys should I get fancy.
[20:26:31] wagnerrp: their filament is a lot thicker than ours
[20:26:52] sphery: Beirdo: so you funded the kickstart and will get the printed parts for a new printer--but still have to buy the electrical and mechanical parts?
[20:26:58] Beirdo: yeah
[20:27:07] wagnerrp: so its not self replicating....
[20:27:08] sphery: cool--guess that part will be fun for you, though
[20:27:11] Beirdo: I will likely get them locally
[20:27:19] sphery: wagnerrp: not /yet/
[20:27:21] sphery: :)
[20:27:27] Beirdo: it's self replicating as much as is possible at the moment :)
[20:27:59] wagnerrp: call me when one of them builds a litho fab
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[20:28:19] Beirdo: sure, but you'll have to give me your neural address
[20:28:43] sphery: unfortunately, that requires several trillion dollars worth of ABS, so still out of the question for most home users ;)
[20:28:53] wagnerrp: and the metal rods?
[20:29:00] wagnerrp: bolts
[20:30:03] Beirdo: that can be easily procured most places in the world
[20:31:33] wagnerrp: i mean $50, for the structure, maybe another $50 for all the metal bits, and $200 for the microcontroller, servo driver, and servos
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[20:31:38] wagnerrp: its a decent, cheap printer
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[20:31:55] wagnerrp: but i dont see whats all that much different from other hobbiest printers
[20:34:05] Beirdo: such as?
[20:34:13] Beirdo: there really only are two types that are common
[20:34:16] Beirdo: reprap and makerbot
[20:34:42] Beirdo: and they are pretty similar in concept and function, and I bet they will merge over time
[20:34:47] wagnerrp: but people have been building them at home for several years
[20:34:57] Beirdo: yes
[20:35:03] wagnerrp: i mean all youre building are the corner linkages
[20:35:13] Beirdo: and? :)
[20:35:27] wagnerrp: that doesnt seem all that impressive
[20:35:31] Beirdo: the idea is to make it easier for someone else to make one to play
[20:35:52] Beirdo: the parts that aren't available readily can be manufactured on the device itself
[20:36:02] wagnerrp: you could just as well make those parts out of some wood and a drill
[20:36:16] Beirdo: not all of em easily
[20:36:37] Beirdo: and ya, to make a reprap and then make plastic ones that will work better :)
[20:36:59] Beirdo: whaaaa?
[20:37:06] Beirdo: PCBs made on the reprap?
[20:37:11] Beirdo: OK, I'm definitely sold.
[20:37:21] Beirdo: I guess you'd need a routing bit/drill bit for that
[20:38:41] ** wagnerrp wonders what an 'eco-friendly' wallet is **
[20:38:54] Beirdo: http://reprap.org/wiki/PCB_Milling
[20:38:58] ** Beirdo grins **
[20:39:02] Beirdo: now that is cool
[20:39:24] justinh: looks more fun than etching
[20:39:45] ** wagnerrp is pretty sure his bovine epidermis would have just been left to rot in a waste dump if not stitched to fit in his back pocket **
[20:39:47] Beirdo: yeah, wonder when it will get usable for surface-mount, or if it is yet
[20:40:15] justinh: Beirdo: the one Elektor sell is :-)
[20:40:34] justinh: I think theirs (PCB milling only) goes for a few hundred
[20:41:42] wagnerrp: Beirdo: i mean i would be a lot more impressed if all the structure were made with interconnecting plastic trusses
[20:41:46] justinh: wow. this just reminded me of all the paper I wasted getting a RadioShack pen plotter to print bitmaps :)
[20:42:01] Beirdo: wagnerrp: yeah, that kinda plastic isn't a good fit for that use :)
[20:42:03] wagnerrp: so the thing basically snapped together
[20:42:14] Beirdo: vibration, etc
[20:42:21] Beirdo: but that WOULD be cool
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[20:43:29] wagnerrp: rig it up so you affix the pieces together, place them on the stage, and the printer 'welds' them
[20:43:29] dekarl: does schedules direct deliver correct data around the next DST switch via the xmltv grabber?
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[20:44:08] Beirdo: dekarl: nearly nobody uses xmltv with schedules direct
[20:44:16] wagnerrp: or build them oversized, and compression fit the joints
[20:44:27] Beirdo: heh, yeah
[20:45:14] dekarl: Beirdo: just wondering about a ticket over at xmltv that looks fishy https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?fun . . . ;atid=424135
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[20:47:31] wagnerrp: Beirdo: now what would be /really/ cool... one integrated with a loom, able to layer in silica or carbon fiber
[20:47:45] Beirdo: dekarl: dunno, there's probably some funky issue in there
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[20:48:08] Beirdo: wagnerrp: get designing :) I could probably make you some parts to bootstrap it once the time comes :)
[20:50:42] Beirdo: dangit
[20:51:02] Beirdo: a coworker has the opening few bars of "Who Can It Be Now" as a ringtone
[20:51:08] Beirdo: now I gotta listen to it ;)
[20:51:34] Beirdo: that's an appropriate song for a ringtone though, I guess
[20:53:23] wagnerrp: Beirdo: well no.. you need to start with the chem-e people for that
[20:53:43] Beirdo: true
[20:53:55] wagnerrp: most fibers dont react well to thermoplastics
[20:54:16] Beirdo: but the structure of the device you can bootstrap some of I'd think
[20:55:04] wagnerrp: haha...
[20:55:15] wagnerrp: i just looked at #9384 and initially thought it was spam
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[21:03:21] dekarl: wagnerrp: the OP is trying to hint at MythTV not doing so well with dynamic PMT
[21:05:44] wagnerrp: yeah, but the way it looked in the mail, with a couple links evenly spaced with a bit of text
[21:05:55] wagnerrp: it looked like the common format for trac spam
[21:05:58] dekarl: true
[21:06:26] dekarl: which reminds me I should search for a radio play in 5.1 and see what they do, maybe add a second audio stream?
[21:07:09] wagnerrp: i dont know anything about DVB radio
[21:07:39] dekarl: it's basically just a service without video
[21:07:58] dekarl: how do they do 5.1 radio in QAM/SCTE land?
[21:08:08] wagnerrp: they dont
[21:09:34] sphery: dekarl: it seems to be fine (and has been in past experience with mythtv)... I can send you the raw schedules direct xml for the day of the transition if you like (e-mail with 78kB attachment ok?)
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[21:11:00] dekarl: sphery: sure it's ok. can you add grabber output of tv_grab_na_dd (--offset 5 --days 1 if I counted correctly)
[21:11:13] sphery: it's offset 12 here
[21:11:18] sphery: Nov 6
[21:11:22] dekarl: ahh ok
[21:11:37] sphery: I have tv_grab_na_dd --dd-data schedules_direct_raw_data.xml --days 1 --offset 12 --days 1 --download-only
[21:11:40] sphery: that good?
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[21:12:44] dekarl: I don't know, never used that grabber. Whatever give a day worth of data
[21:13:05] sphery: will be at 6:00am UTC when it switches, but I see programs at 5, 5:30, 6, 6:30, 7, ...
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[21:13:21] sphery: yeah, that's one day--might have gotten an extra lineup in there, but it's still pretty small...
[21:13:34] sphery: spaetfruehstuecken address?
[21:13:45] dekarl: but the bug report I have in front of me is around Oct 30 2/3 am... strange (spaetfruehstuecken is great)
[21:14:17] sphery: maybe a user who doesn't know what his local politicians have decided?
[21:14:25] dekarl: channels are I34156.labs.zap2it.com and I10035.labs.zap2it.com, maybe I need to figure out where that's from
[21:14:39] sphery: Oct 30 goes along with the pre-2007 changes to US DST
[21:14:51] sphery: old/broken tz data?
[21:14:53] dekarl: nah, the timestamps from the error message is around there. ohh, might be Debian stable :D
[21:15:43] sphery: hehe
[21:16:26] sphery: yeah, http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/2011.html agrees with my Nov 6 date
[21:17:06] sphery: United States, Most locations, Sunday, November 6 (with all others--Hawaii, Arizona, Midway Islands, Wake Island--having "No DST in 2011")
[21:17:34] sphery: this is why DST should be abolished
[21:17:46] ** sphery would prefer that the whole world just used UTC **
[21:18:16] dekarl: but when was that bill passed and implemented in tzdata, is that likely to still not have made it to a current system=
[21:18:39] sphery: 2007 was the first year on the new schedule, IIRC
[21:19:20] sphery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Ac . . . _saving_time
[21:19:28] sphery: yeah, 2005 bill, first implemented in 2007
[21:20:01] dekarl: lol Australia is delaying the end of DST by one week for 2006 only, to support the Commonwealth games
[21:20:33] sphery: don't worry, Astrolabe will document it for you--then sue anyone who uses that data in a computer
[21:20:53] dekarl: but Astrolabe is on Facebook so they must be cool, right?!
[21:20:58] sphery: oh, and they have a full selection of astrological software to fit all your witchcraft needs
[21:21:11] sphery: at least IANA stepped up to fight them
[21:21:38] sphery: I really didn't want Olsen to be left out to dry and have to fight them himself
[21:22:31] wagnerrp: ICANN took over
[21:22:36] wagnerrp: erm.. IANA
[21:22:39] wagnerrp: nevermind, you said that
[21:22:41] sphery: hehe
[21:22:51] sphery: ICANN haz a cheezeburger?
[21:23:00] wagnerrp: they were planning to do so anyway
[21:23:10] wagnerrp: he had announced he was stepping down back in february or march
[21:23:16] dekarl: I thought the move to IANA has nothing to do with the lawsuit
[21:23:19] wagnerrp: this simply stepped up the time frame
[21:23:37] sphery: dekarl: but IANA said they will defend the database against all legal threats
[21:24:47] sphery: dekarl: anyway, I sent the data (to the spaetfruehstuecken address), please let me know if you need anything else
[21:25:32] sphery: oh, and fwiw, Canada--the other major user of Schedules Direct data--also has DST ending on Nov 6
[21:26:14] sphery: though most locations in Mexico have it ending Oct 30
[21:26:26] sphery: wonder if this user is one of the 3 from Mexico...
[21:27:15] dekarl: hmm, I've avec him for a reduced example file for me to test...
[21:27:21] sphery: (I should mention that the number 3 is a wild exaggeration, not an official stat :)
[21:27:25] dekarl: s/avec/asked/
[21:27:29] justinh: sphery: one timezone, one currency, one government. FTW :-O
[21:27:50] sphery: could call it the United Federation of Planet
[21:28:01] sphery: (and, eventually, maybe change that to "Planets")
[21:28:08] dekarl: do they have currency in star trek?
[21:28:23] justinh: not sure
[21:28:41] justinh: they seem to avoid the issue of money in most of the franchise AFAIK
[21:28:45] sphery: definitely did in DS9
[21:28:55] sphery: think Quark...
[21:29:19] sphery: I think it's just the guys on the ships who have the "military" plan with food/medical/... paid for
[21:29:52] justinh: but there's no poverty in the federation. how did they do that?
[21:29:57] sphery: "Latinum bars"
[21:30:14] wagnerrp: justinh: replicators
[21:30:27] wagnerrp: if energy is free, so is everything else
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[21:30:35] justinh: oh yeah & free limitless energ.. heh
[21:30:57] sphery: well, assuming you could get enough dilithium crystals, of course
[21:31:11] justinh: didn't they do away with them?
[21:31:19] dekarl is now known as dekarl_zzz
[21:31:24] justinh: I was never quite sad enough.. er.. quite into it enough ;)
[21:31:26] sphery: at least the ZPMs made more sense--just stealing energy from another universe :)
[21:31:35] sphery: (ZPMs in Stargate)
[21:31:45] wagnerrp: no, they just realized when they were used up, they could reverse the polarity and use them all over again
[21:32:31] wagnerrp: its like flipping an hourglass!
[21:32:38] sphery: nice... and probably also made it harder to shoot them through the shield--since they were continually switching the polarity of the shield based on the polarity of the energy from those crystals
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[21:39:48] sphery: hehe, even if you press "Send" on the e-mail, it's not actually sent until you also type in the password
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[21:50:50] ** Beirdo bangs his head on the desk **
[21:51:01] Beirdo: I downloaded knoppix instead of finnix
[21:51:04] Beirdo: idioto
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[22:13:50] justinh: hahaha. new spam comment "Greetings! In the aftermath of this week's sad Newton
[22:13:53] justinh: canine electrocution, please see StreetZaps and how to self-protect"
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[22:38:31] reel: hey – i am trying to troubleshoot why my LCD only shows clock, heartbeat, and recording info but not any of the other display options like menus or playing type information. when I put the mythlcdserver and mythfrontend in high verbosity/debug, i see nothing indicating that it should be updating the LCD like I see for recording status. Is it broken in 0.25?
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[22:57:21] Beirdo: have you looked at the code?
[22:57:42] Beirdo: I think a bunch of the other stuff has been taken out as it was broken or something along those lines
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[23:07:07] Guest18214: Question: I got a linux server with a lot of movies and tv-episodes. Before I used to have a HTPC running XBMC. But now we've moved to a place where we gonna have 3 or 4 rooms we want to be able to see the media on the server. To do it the easy way I can just buy 4 WD TV live boxes and connect them to my router. BUT, I want it to be a bit more userfriendly as the GUI on the WD TV Live is bad. If I install MythTV on the server and run it j
[23:07:07] Guest18214: ust as a backend media server, can I then controll what I want to see with my android phone(making MythTV stream with upnp/dlna) choose the movies I want to see on the different WD TV Live?
[23:07:29] Guest18214: Just like how the Squeezebox/Sonos system works.
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[23:20:21] reel: thanks beirdo. i only looked at the latest code of mythlcdserver. it looked to still be present from looking at the current but i didn't trace it out. i
[23:20:37] reel: i may need to look further to see if the frontend is not signaling what it should
[23:21:02] wagnerrp: Guest18214: mythtv does not differentiate between different upnp clients
[23:21:11] wagnerrp: all clients get the same access to all the content
[23:21:31] Beirdo: reel: it's possible that something got borked and the messages are no longer being sent
[23:22:03] Beirdo: I have no problem going in and fixing it if you can find missing things. I'm one of the few devs who actually has an LCD, I think :)
[23:22:26] wagnerrp: i dont get it
[23:22:41] wagnerrp: this guy keeps making new wiki accounts, and hasnt authenticated a single one
[23:23:07] Beirdo: people are stupid
[23:23:25] wagnerrp: hes a spammer, he doesnt qualify as a person
[23:23:31] wagnerrp: but it simply makes no sense
[23:23:43] wagnerrp: what good is spawning a bunch of non-functional accounts
[23:23:53] Beirdo: people are stupid and spammers are dumber than rocks.
[23:23:54] Beirdo: :)
[23:24:09] wagnerrp: is he sending signup notices to email accounts he does not have control over?
[23:24:20] Beirdo: probably
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[23:49:22] wagnerrp: ugh...
[23:50:20] wagnerrp: i added paul's new mythmusic events to the network control socket way way back in december, and made a typo on one of the commands it sent
[23:50:21] Beirdo: and also blah
[23:50:33] Beirdo: hehe
[23:50:34] Beirdo: ooops
[23:50:47] wagnerrp: paul tweaked the event, and fixed by typo ten days later
[23:50:54] wagnerrp: still way way back in december
[23:51:17] Beirdo: holy crap, that reprap kickstarter got fully funded fast
[23:51:22] wagnerrp: guy just commented on my commit two hours ago... look at this! you made a typo!
[23:51:30] wagnerrp: f---er
[23:51:32] Beirdo: yeah, I saw that. Dork
[23:51:51] wagnerrp: im looking at it... well i guess ill fix it
[23:51:55] Beirdo: "thank you for noticing. Here's your sign"
[23:52:00] wagnerrp: so i open up the code and lo! there is no error!
[23:52:10] wagnerrp: so wtf? its clearly there in the commit
[23:52:15] wagnerrp: so i dig through the history
[23:52:20] wagnerrp: realize hes a tard
[23:52:25] wagnerrp: and waste fifteen minutes
[23:52:37] Beirdo: Bill Engvall to the rescue!
[23:53:35] wagnerrp: member since... today
[23:53:43] wagnerrp: he created a github account just so he could do that
[23:55:26] wagnerrp: grand theft auto... 5
[23:55:36] wagnerrp: i dont think that franchise really has any life left
[23:55:59] k-man: if I was cynical, I might think that oracle does java updates to force you to see adverts for oracle and java
[23:56:24] wagnerrp: why would you need to see java ads when youre clearly already using java?
[23:56:32] wagnerrp: or are you talking about their update daemon?
[23:56:59] k-man: wagnerrp, yeah, the update daemon (im talking about in Windows here)
[23:57:31] k-man: wagnerrp, because they don't want people to forget how wonderful java is so they must ensure you are constantly reminded that you have it installed
[23:58:25] k-man: anyway, thats just me being cynical
[23:58:41] wagnerrp: thats usually one of the first things i turn off whenever i install one of about half a dozen applications that run those things
[23:58:46] Beirdo: I need durgs
[23:58:56] Beirdo: I feel a head cold coming on
[23:59:05] wagnerrp: speaking of which, i need to seek out and butcher this HP one ive been getting
[23:59:20] wagnerrp: install a new printer... get pestered...
[23:59:30] wagnerrp: stop! you already got my money!

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