Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, September 12th, 2011, 00:06 UTC

[00:06:11]

shipit (shipit!~shipit@c-67-180-23-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[00:09:19]

Gibby (Gibby!~Gibby@204.118.10.244) has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)

[00:09:48]

Gibby (Gibby!~Gibby@204.118.10.244) has joined #mythtv-users

[00:13:22]

PointyPumper (PointyPumper!~pintlezz@190.244.73.13) has joined #mythtv-users

[00:13:51]

mattwj2002:

wagnerrp: I got it!

[00:13:52]

mattwj2002:

:D

[00:13:57]

StevenR (StevenR!~foo@88.97.49.237) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[00:14:35]

wagnerrp:

?

[00:14:51]

mattwj2002:

it is really stupid but here is what I had to do

[00:15:19]

mattwj2002:

comcast basically only has the OTA channels unencrypted right?

[00:15:34]

wagnerrp:

correct

[00:15:58]

mattwj2002:

so switched my channels to Local OTA in the source and now I have data for those OTA channels

[00:16:44]

wagnerrp:

so whY cant you use the comcast feed?

[00:17:35]

mattwj2002:

well I can but I'll have to manual change the xmltvid's

[00:17:52]

mattwj2002:

those ids were not lining up

[00:18:09]

wagnerrp:

youll have to do that with the OTA channels too

[00:18:17]

mattwj2002:

nope

[00:18:27]

mattwj2002:

OTA channels are fine

[00:19:03]

mattwj2002:

oh you mean the other feed?

[00:19:27]

wagnerrp:

you cannot pull a digital lineup from SD

[00:19:29]

wagnerrp:

you can only scan

[00:19:41]

wagnerrp:

so the only way mythfilldatabase can match things up is through the channame

[00:20:00]

wagnerrp:

which should be the same on both the cable and broadcast lineups

[00:20:14]

mattwj2002:

right

[00:20:18]

mattwj2002:

I understand

[00:20:25]

mattwj2002:

and only some of the channels have names

[00:20:39]

mattwj2002:

even though I can pick them up

[00:21:15]

mattwj2002:

I have it under control....I just wanted to tell you the solution :)

[00:22:20]

shipit (shipit!~shipit@c-67-180-23-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[00:23:18]

GrahamIRC (GrahamIRC!~GrahamIRC@93-97-162-128.zone5.bethere.co.uk) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)

[00:35:05]

Beirdo:

someone forgot to tell the weatherman that a) this is Seattle and b) summer's supposed to be coming to an end.

[00:35:56]

Beirdo:

I'm outta the groove of 85F weather

[00:36:14]

wagnerrp:

85F and rainy? thats some strange weather

[00:36:20]

Beirdo:

not raining

[00:36:24]

Beirdo:

sunny and nice

[00:36:33]

Beirdo:

we do get SOME sun

[00:36:49]

wagnerrp:

no, philly gets all your sun

[00:36:51]

Beirdo:

and not as much rain as you might think :)

[00:38:36]

Beirdo:

we get less rain per year than Cincinnati

[00:38:48]

Beirdo:

according to what I see online.

[00:39:16]

wagnerrp:

we dont get much rain

[00:39:21]

Beirdo:

we get 37"/year, Cincinnatti gets 42.6"/year

[00:39:26]

wagnerrp:

its just when we do get rain, we get a LOT of rain

[00:39:38]

Beirdo:

and we get it often but sprinkly

[00:39:58]

wagnerrp:

see, its always raining

[00:40:35]

Beirdo:

about 150 days/year

[00:41:00]

Beirdo:

but it's partly cloudy to cloudy 300 days/year

[00:41:30]

Beirdo:

or thereabouts

[00:41:38]

Beirdo:

today ain't one of em

[00:41:42]

russell5 (russell5!~russell5@pool-173-48-60-219.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[00:45:56]

Beirdo:

so got ALL the boxes of books onto the shelves

[00:46:12]

pheld (pheld!~heldal@cl-5.osl-01.no.sixxs.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)

[00:46:20]

Beirdo:

too many books!

[00:47:40]

natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[00:51:56]

andreax1 (andreax1!~andreaz@p57B94C99.dip.t-dialin.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[01:06:16]

mattwj2002 (mattwj2002!~matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has left #mythtv-users ()

[01:10:59]

troyt_ (troyt_!~troyt@c-67-166-68-75.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:12:23]

troyt (troyt!~troyt@PariahZero.broker.freenet6.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[01:12:45]

troyt_ (troyt_!~troyt@c-67-166-68-75.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has quit (Client Quit)

[01:19:30]

skd5aner (skd5aner!~skd5aner@cpe-071-071-242-134.carolina.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:21:06]

[R] ([R]!~rbox@unaffiliated/rbox) has quit (Quit: Leaving)

[01:21:44]

srk9 (srk9!~richard@unaffiliated/srk9) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:22:05]

[R] ([R]!~rbox@unaffiliated/rbox) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:22:14]

russell5 (russell5!~russell5@pool-173-48-60-219.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:22:15]

srk9:

My XBox 360 just died on me. I used the XBox 360 as a media center extender so I could watch recordings made by Windows Media Center. Now that it is dead, I am thinking of getting rid of Windows and using open source software. I just ordered a HDHomeRun Prime a few days ago. Setting up a MythTV backend should not be a problem for me. Is there any way to setup a frontend that works like a set-top box so people who are incapable of using ...

[01:22:21]

srk9:

... computers can use it?

[01:22:36]

[R]:

its all controlled by the remote

[01:22:39]

[R]:

with a pretty interface

[01:22:52]

[R]:

if you can point a remote and push buttons

[01:22:54]

[R]:

you'll be fine

[01:23:06]

troyt (troyt!~troyt@PariahZero.broker.freenet6.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:23:18]

srk9:

Does that mean that my parents will be able to point a remote at it, press power and have it start? Then when they are tired of it, point the remote at it and have it turn off?

[01:23:33]

srk9:

*point the remote, press power and have it turn off

[01:24:01]

srk9:

I had been using MCE with my XBox 360 because I didn't think that I could get that from Linux DVR software.

[01:24:05]

Hydr0p0nX (Hydr0p0nX!~hydr@68.117.250.114) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)

[01:24:12]

[R]:

you just leave it on

[01:24:16]

[R]:

o power button necessary

[01:24:44]

taylorr (taylorr!~taylorr@unaffiliated/elmojo) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:25:27]

croppa (croppa!~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:25:42]

srk9:

What are my options for front-end hardware? Is there anything small, quiet and unobtrusive that I can get?

[01:26:09]

taylorr:

yes, and ION system is what many users are choosing

[01:26:14]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Choosing_Frontend_Hardware

[01:26:39]

wagnerrp:

you can get a real machine, with a real processor, thats as small, quiet, and unobtrusive as that 360

[01:27:45]

taylorr:

srk9: you definitely want to stick with NVIDIA graphics that a capable of VDPAU

[01:28:02]

taylorr:

the deinterlacing quality is outstanding

[01:28:21]

wagnerrp:

and the drivers in general

[01:28:44]

wagnerrp:

the intel drivers simply dont have the options available for dealing with finicky tvs

[01:29:03]

wagnerrp:

and ATI drivers have traditionally sucked, although they are getting better in recent years

[01:31:52]

srk9:

Let me see if I still have my old Microsoft IR receiver from when I used to use an IR blaster... I have two systems, so I think I will try that approach.

[01:35:04]

wagnerrp:

do you actually know what channels you will expect as copy freely?

[01:35:20]

wagnerrp:

understand that mythtv can record encrypted content with the prime, but it cannot record copy protected content

[01:38:06]

srk9:

wagnerrp: I don't know.

[01:38:24]

srk9:

I have Verizon Fios TV.

[01:38:43]

wagnerrp:

know anyone with a series 3 tivo?

[01:39:12]

srk9:

No.

[01:39:48]

srk9:

All of the internet resources I can find say that basically everything is copy freely.

[01:40:42]

srk9:

I have one resource that says that HBO and Showtime are not copy freely, but I don't have those.

[01:41:15]

shipit (shipit!~shipit@c-67-180-23-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:45:03]

straterra (straterra!~straterra@fuhell.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[01:46:18]

srk9:

Is it possible for me to install a Linux distribution on a Roku and use that as a front-end?

[01:46:34]

[R]:

no

[01:46:45]

wagnerrp:

in theory, yes

[01:46:47]

[R]:

aside from the fact that it is completlely underpowered

[01:46:54]

wagnerrp:

in practice, it doesnt have enough memory to run the frontend

[01:46:55]

[R]:

in theory i could install linux on my toaster

[01:47:04]

wagnerrp:

and we dont have any spec on the hardware decoder through which to play video

[01:47:12]

srk9:

Ah, okay.

[01:47:31]

srk9:

Wait... don't they have to publish the drivers with the sources?

[01:47:33]

wagnerrp:

and thats assuming the ffmpeg libraries will even function on that architecture in the first place

[01:47:46]

wagnerrp:

depends on how they wrote the OS

[01:47:49]

wagnerrp:

typically not

[01:48:21]

[R]:

someone was able to make a mythfrontned on the patriot memory box office

[01:48:27]

[R]:

i heard it was pretty crappy though

[01:49:08]

DeviceZer0 (DeviceZer0!~hate@unaffiliated/devicezer0) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[01:50:09]

DeviceZer0 (DeviceZer0!~hate@glock45.armed.us) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:50:09]

DeviceZer0 (DeviceZer0!~hate@unaffiliated/devicezer0) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:50:09]

DeviceZer0 (DeviceZer0!~hate@glock45.armed.us) has quit (Changing host)

[01:50:37]

straterra (straterra!~straterra@fuhell.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[01:51:00]

srk9:

Would this work when it is out? http://www.raspberrypi.org/

[01:51:56]

wagnerrp:

assuming we supported the video decoder (which we dont), its still short on memory

[01:52:21]

srk9:

Specifications are here: http://www.osnews.com/story/25147/Raspberry_P . . . _1080p_Video

[01:52:25]

srk9:

Wrong link.

[01:52:34]

srk9:

http://www.osnews.com/story/25108

[01:53:06]

srk9:

wagnerrp: What do you need to do to support the video decoder? I know C/C++.

[01:53:22]

wagnerrp:

im not the one to talk to about that

[01:53:29]

wagnerrp:

dont know the first thing about it

[01:53:30]

[R]:

thats a rip off

[01:53:33]

[R]:

for $25 you dont get networking

[01:53:54]

srk9:

They charge $35 for networking, plus another 128MB of RAM.

[01:54:21]

wagnerrp:

256MB is still a bit light for a frontend at 720p

[01:54:22]

[R]:

$25 i could do... i dunno about $35

[01:54:23]

[R]:

lol

[01:54:30]

wagnerrp:

it certainly wont cut it for one at 1080p

[01:54:38]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend is a bit of a memory hog

[01:54:45]

srk9:

It has this CPU: http://www.broadcom.com/products/BCM2835

[01:54:49]

wagnerrp:

anything below 384 and youre swapping pretty hard

[01:54:57]

srk9:

wagnerrp: On which distribution?

[01:55:19]

wagnerrp:

tested on my laptop, running gentoo

[01:55:27]

srk9:

Ah, cool. You're a Gentoo user too.

[01:55:28]

wagnerrp:

outside of mythtv, the rest of my system was using maybe 50MB

[01:55:33]

srk9:

Ouch.

[01:55:45]

srk9:

And here I was thinking uclibc would be the answer.

[01:55:49]

srk9:

What are your CFLAGS?

[01:55:59]

fleers (fleers!~fleers@cpe-76-93-149-124.san.res.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[01:56:09]

wagnerrp:

off hand? no clue

[01:56:18]

[R]:

does qt even compile agianst uclibc?

[01:56:23]

wagnerrp:

i doubt ive touched them in over a year

[01:56:44]

srk9:

[R]: It should. uclibc is binary compatible with glibc.

[01:56:57]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is designed to be the dedicated application on standard desktop hardware

[01:57:05]

srk9:

*API compatible

[01:57:11]

wagnerrp:

as such, 512MB systems have been standard for ~10 years

[01:57:18]

wagnerrp:

and 4GB is pretty standard these days

[01:57:30]

wagnerrp:

theres certainly a lot of opportunity to clean up memory usage in the frontend

[01:57:33]

wagnerrp:

just little motivation for it

[01:58:34]

srk9:

I'll give getting Gentoo on the Raspberry Pi and turning it into a frontend a shot when I have the hardware. Now I need to get Gentoo installed in a virtual machine and prepare it to be a back-end.

[01:58:47]

wagnerrp:

outside of code cleanliness, the only real need for it would be on underpowered systems like the raspberry pi, appletv, and xbox

[01:59:07]

wagnerrp:

and i doubt any of the devs really have any interest in supporting such

[01:59:16]

srk9:

The Raspberry Pi would be a really nice front-end. It is cheap enough that every TV in the house could have one.

[01:59:28]

wagnerrp:

it would be an interesting frontend for the price

[01:59:34]

wagnerrp:

i wont go so far as to call it nice

[01:59:56]

srk9:

It has a hardware decoder for 1080p and draws only 1 watt.

[02:00:32]

srk9:

It requires no fans. It takes a SD card so no spinning disk.

[02:00:37]

wagnerrp:

my definition of 'nice' requires something with enough power that you dont need the hardware decoder

[02:00:44]

srk9:

Why is that?

[02:00:53]

wagnerrp:

because hardware decoders are inherently limited

[02:01:07]

wagnerrp:

they can only handle specifically that content which they are designed for

[02:01:09]

wagnerrp:

and nothing more

[02:01:25]

wagnerrp:

there is no room for expansion, nothing else you can use it for

[02:02:23]

srk9:

It supports WebM and x264.

[02:02:36]

wagnerrp:

it cannot support x264

[02:02:38]

srk9:

Possibly more... I am looking for details.

[02:02:40]

srk9:

Why not?

[02:02:47]

wagnerrp:

because its not an encoder

[02:02:53]

srk9:

I mean H.264

[02:03:02]

srk9:

Broadcomm advertises it.

[02:03:07]

straterra (straterra!~straterra@fuhell.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)

[02:03:10]

srk9:

It also apparently is an encoder as well.

[02:03:13]

wagnerrp:

in any case, it doesnt matter

[02:03:28]

wagnerrp:

time and time again, hardware decoders have become obsolete over time

[02:03:50]

wagnerrp:

with enough CPU, there is always the chance of improvement

[02:03:56]

wagnerrp:

with hardware, it simply needs to be replaced

[02:03:59]

srk9:

As long as it works, I don't mind using an outdated codec.

[02:04:11]

srk9:

No fans, no disk, 1 watt of power, low cost...

[02:04:37]

DeviceZer0 (DeviceZer0!~hate@unaffiliated/devicezer0) has joined #mythtv-users

[02:04:51]

wagnerrp:

unless you want to spend a lot of power transcoding to an outdated device, you should mind

[02:05:21]

wagnerrp:

like i said, for $35, its certainly very interesting, if mythtv can be made to work under those memory constraints and with that decoder

[02:05:33]

wagnerrp:

but i wont consider it a "nice" frontend

[02:06:27]

straterra (straterra!~straterra@fuhell.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[02:08:41]

wagnerrp:

think of it like a luxury car versus a cheap econobox

[02:08:59]

wagnerrp:

the junker will get you where you need to go just fine, but its not a "nice" car

[02:10:05]

wagnerrp:

and as far as boot disks, i network boot everything anyway

[02:11:35]

Dave123-road (Dave123-road!~dave@cpe-74-74-200-106.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[02:12:32]

[R]:

i realy need to get suspend to ram with nfs root and a backend that turns off working on my frontend

[02:12:49]

[R]:

although i think the first step is getting suspend to ram working with a normla drive... haha

[02:19:38]

kc (kc!~Casper@unaffiliated/kc) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)

[02:21:10]

Dave123 (Dave123!~dave@cpe-74-74-200-106.rochester.res.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)

[02:21:13]

Dave123-road (Dave123-road!~dave@cpe-74-74-200-106.rochester.res.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[02:26:28]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[02:26:56]

shipit (shipit!~shipit@c-67-180-23-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[02:33:06]

kc (kc!~Casper@unaffiliated/kc) has joined #mythtv-users

[02:42:16]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[03:00:25]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[03:15:13]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@173.208.87.10) has joined #mythtv-users

[03:21:34]

Hydr0p0nX (Hydr0p0nX!~hydr@68.117.250.114) has joined #mythtv-users

[03:22:23]

fleers (fleers!~fleers@cpe-76-93-149-124.san.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[03:26:18]

Hydr0p0nX (Hydr0p0nX!~hydr@68.117.250.114) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)

[03:30:10]

kormoc_afk is now known as kormoc

[03:34:16]

Nigel is now known as G

[03:41:36]

** wagnerrp just went all John McClain in the kitchen **

[03:43:26]

zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[03:52:46]

srk9:

I just made a virtual machine for MythTV and I want to install it. The system is headless and is meant to be the back-end. Do I need to install X?

[03:53:46]

wagnerrp:

for now, the configuration utility is X11 based

[03:53:59]

wagnerrp:

you will need to install at least the libraries, to allow use against a remote X server

[03:54:19]

wagnerrp:

also note, you likely dont want to run a production backend in a VM

[03:54:44]

srk9:

wagnerrp: Why do you recommend not running it in a VM?

[03:55:03]

wagnerrp:

why would you want to run it in a VM?

[03:55:18]

wagnerrp:

the only worth to a VM is to let you run hardware in a fully sandboxed environment for testing

[03:55:26]

wagnerrp:

or for cross-os/cross-platform compatibility

[03:55:59]

wagnerrp:

aside from that, it has some use for brute force implementation of high availability systems, but i doubt youre doing that

[03:56:41]

srk9:

wagnerrp: I spent alot of money building a very expensive machine just for the purpose of virtualizing Windows Media Center. Now that I am trying to move away from Windows, I don't want to think that I wasted my money.

[03:57:05]

srk9:

It has 8GB of RAM and a 8TB RAID 6 array.

[03:57:45]

wagnerrp:

so... like $1500

[03:57:49]

srk9:

I had the data drive in the media center machine die on me, so I sort of went nuts trying to build something that had enterprise reliability.

[03:57:52]

srk9:

wagnerrp: Yes.

[03:58:07]

wagnerrp:

i dont see how that has any relevance to running VMs

[03:58:08]

srk9:

The array technically has 12TB, but 4TB are used for parity.

[03:58:29]

srk9:

Well, the idea was to put Windows in a virtual machine so that even if the motherboard went out, I could still get back up and running quickly...

[03:58:46]

srk9:

It is no longer relevant for Linux, but still, if this doesn't work, I will probably have to go crawling back to Microsoft for another XBox.

[03:58:53]

wagnerrp:

one mythtv machine is identical to the next

[03:59:00]

wagnerrp:

if your backend gives out

[03:59:32]

wagnerrp:

move the drives, change the mounts, force mythtv to an alternate hostname for settings, change the IP of the master backend

[03:59:35]

wagnerrp:

and youre done

[03:59:52]

wagnerrp:

oh, and the database too

[04:00:14]

wagnerrp:

the only thing differentiating a master backend from a slave backend is the IP you specify in mythtv-setup for the master backend IP

[04:00:23]

wagnerrp:

the master is the one whose IP that is

[04:00:31]

wagnerrp:

all else start up as slaves and connect to the master

[04:02:28]

kormoc (kormoc!~kormoc@mythtv/developer/kormoc) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[04:02:32]

srk9:

I think I am going to keep it virtualized. That way the system it sees is tailored specifically for it.

[04:02:57]

wagnerrp:

then use chroot instead

[04:03:45]

wagnerrp:

my point is, full system virtualization is a sledgehammer used for all sorts of situations where it adds nothing

[04:04:02]

wagnerrp:

nothing but a bunch of overhead and complexity

[04:15:20]

wagnerrp:

srk9: if you didnt know this, linux really doesnt care what hardware you stuff it on

[04:15:50]

wagnerrp:

you could take a disk with copy of linux installed on an old P2 system, install the disk on a core i7, and it will boot up without issue

[04:16:02]

wagnerrp:

at worst, you may have to fiddle with the audio and xorg settings

[04:16:33]

wagnerrp:

its not like Windows, it doesnt bluescreen or deactivate if it detects hardware different from what it expects

[04:17:54]

kormoc_afk (kormoc_afk!~kormoc@mythtv/developer/kormoc) has joined #mythtv-users

[04:17:54]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc_afk

[04:17:55]

kormoc_afk is now known as kormoc

[04:23:28]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@173.208.87.10) has quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds)

[04:23:51]

srk9:

wagnerrp: I know, but this was meant for Windows and I still want to run other stuff on here. I think the layer of abstraction could be good to avoid doing something stupid to the system.

[04:25:20]

srk9:

I might move mythtv to the host after I am happy with it, but for now it gets a guest. I am still evaluating it.

[04:25:48]

wagnerrp:

a simple chroot will protect the system from whatever you do to mythtv

[04:26:18]

wagnerrp:

just set it up using the same manner you for building from a stage3

[04:27:12]

srk9:

I am more interested in protecting mythtv from whatever I do to the system.

[04:27:48]

wagnerrp:

i dont see how even virtualization could protect that

[04:27:55]

srk9:

I can always mount the block device for the virtual machine to do a chroot if I'm not happy with the virtual machine performance.

[04:28:15]

srk9:

wagnerrp: Simple. I put every individual function into its own VM. Then if I mess up, I don't have to worry about killing everything.

[04:28:41]

srk9:

Then I can put important services on the system that I don't want to go down, like a VPN.

[04:29:51]

wagnerrp:

i dont see how a VM offers any more protection against you than chroot

[04:30:00]

srk9:

A portage mirror would be possible. I also can install FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD to play with them. I can make a separate...

[04:30:08]

srk9:

I ssh into them with a different IP.

[04:30:37]

srk9:

If I rarely touch the host IP, there is little chance of messing it up..

[04:31:05]

srk9:

Besides, there isn't much overhead. I have tuned the heck out of KVM. :D

[04:32:05]

srk9:

The CPU resources are used efficiently. Disk space is being allocated as I see fit; I have 8TB, so I have plenty of room for stuff. The only issue is RAM, but I can use memory ballooning for that.

[04:32:44]

wagnerrp:

youre not using that RAID6 as the storage for those VMs are you?

[04:33:10]

srk9:

I am.

[04:33:34]

srk9:

The entire host is running off RAID 6. There are no independent drives.

[04:33:44]

wagnerrp:

even in write backed mode on a hardware controller, RAID6 is not ideal for an OS drive

[04:34:20]

srk9:

wagnerrp: I'm paranoid about data integrity.

[04:34:26]

wagnerrp:

and running your storage on the same disk as your database is highly recommended against for mythtv

[04:34:41]

wagnerrp:

thats fine, but OS partitions are typically run on RAID1 or RAID10

[04:34:52]

srk9:

It is all in LVM.

[04:35:07]

wagnerrp:

even worse

[04:35:22]

wagnerrp:

the parity schema for RAID5/6 is simply inefficient for small file writes

[04:36:10]

srk9:

I had issues when I tried using Xen with LVM on a RAID 6 array, but KVM is fine. As for small writes, I don't plan on doing many of them. I benchmarked the performance and it is like 20MBps, which is in SSD territory.

[04:36:35]

srk9:

That is what CrystalDiskMark said about 4K random I/O performance in virtualized Windows.

[04:36:45]

wagnerrp:

20MBps is in single 2.5" 5400RPM hard drive territory

[04:36:53]

srk9:

For 4K random writes?

[04:37:18]

srk9:

A signle hard disk will have issues getting to 2MBps at random I/O.

[04:37:21]

srk9:

*single

[04:38:15]

wagnerrp:

depends on how writes are handled across that virtual machine boundary

[04:38:36]

wagnerrp:

if synced writes on the windows VM simply get written to the memory cache on the host machine

[04:38:38]

Lord_Deathscythe (Lord_Deathscythe!~LD@h246.135.185.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) has quit (Quit: I am called onward)

[04:38:39]

wagnerrp:

the test is meaningless

[04:38:50]

srk9:

It is KVM. They aren't written to memory. If they were, it should have been faster.

[04:39:27]

srk9:

I imagine that the 20MBps was because I had a small partition for the OS. That is like short stroking the drives.

[04:39:39]

srk9:

The heads did not have to move very much.

[04:41:07]

wagnerrp:

could be, but the point still stands, for IOps, raid5/6 is the wrong choice

[04:41:19]

wagnerrp:

you can get decent read, if youre not worrying about data integrity

[04:41:35]

srk9:

I am worried about data density.

[04:41:39]

srk9:

And data integrity.

[04:41:48]

srk9:

RAID 5 is the best at density. Integrity wise, it has issues.

[04:42:19]

srk9:

RAID 6 fixes those issues. Now if a drive dies and a bit flipped, I won't lose the array when doing the rebuild.

[04:42:39]

wagnerrp:

that bit flipped stuff is nonsense

[04:43:08]

wagnerrp:

the enterprise hardware is exactly the same hardware, but rated much higher

[04:43:19]

wagnerrp:

for no other reason than they tested it harder

[04:43:19]

srk9:

I'm using commodity drives.

[04:43:27]

clever:

ive seen a flipped bit maybe 3 times in my life, and that was after pushing and pulling the file over nfs between countless computers

[04:43:57]

wagnerrp:

when you started hearing people talk about bit flips being a problem at 10^14 (~10TB), drive manufacturers suddenly bumped their specs to 10^15

[04:44:06]

srk9:

This machine will be storing recordings for my parents... I am happier when they are happy.

[04:44:11]

wagnerrp:

they didnt make their drives any more reliable

[04:44:16]

clever:

it could have been flipped anywhere along many paths, ram, ethernet, hdd, hdd controlers

[04:44:20]

wagnerrp:

they just tested them differently

[04:44:25]

[R]:

dont forget the cosmic rays!

[04:44:38]

srk9:

[R]: I have those covered. I am using ECC RAM.

[04:44:39]

kormoc:

20 MBps is horrible SSD performance for random 3k writes, http://www.anandtech.com/show/4186/ocz-vertex . . . sed-sf2200/3

[04:45:06]

kormoc:

*4k

[04:45:09]

srk9:

kormoc: It was awesome 5 years ago.

[04:45:12]

clever:

srk9: what if a second cosmic ray hits the parity bit by chance and hides the error?

[04:45:23]

** [R] puts on his tinfoil hat **

[04:45:35]

srk9:

clever: Not possible. ECC can detect up to 2 bit corruptions.

[04:45:37]

** clever puts tinfoil hat on the hdd **

[04:45:48]

srk9:

The system will automatically halt.

[04:45:48]

clever:

srk9: ok, 3 cosmic rays then! :P

[04:46:01]

srk9:

clever: There is a better chance of a meteorite hitting the machine.

[04:46:05]

clever:

yeah

[04:47:33]

srk9:

clever: Ethernet is covered too. TCP/IP has a cryptographic hash.

[04:48:02]

clever:

there is still a chance that it could have messed up the error detection bits

[04:48:19]

clever:

but its hard to find the problem, considering that i moved the file countless times between many systems

[04:48:26]

srk9:

clever: Generating a hash collision is absurdly improbable.

[04:48:52]

clever:

i havent seen any signs of hashing in tcp/ip, just checksums at several layers

[04:49:01]

srk9:

Nevermind. I just looked at the checksum...

[04:49:03]

srk9:

16-bits.

[04:49:34]

srk9:

If you calculate 512 different strings, you are bound to get a collision.

[04:49:38]

wagnerrp:

srk9: if youre actually worried about bitrot, then you want to look into zfs or btrfs

[04:49:56]

srk9:

wagnerrp: I did. btrfs ate my data. zfs uses too much RAM.

[04:50:10]

wagnerrp:

too much ram? youve got 8GB

[04:50:24]

wagnerrp:

btrfs is not really production ready at the moment

[04:50:51]

srk9:

wagnerrp: ZFS support in Linux is not that great right now either.

[04:51:07]

srk9:

It is an old version of ZFS.

[04:51:25]

clever:

ethernet is also using Manchester at the wire level, so that could complicate matters further

[04:51:31]

kormoc:

just setup a large number mirror if you care about bit rot

[04:51:41]

wagnerrp:

i actually came across this a few days ago... http://zfsonlinux.org/

[04:52:06]

wagnerrp:

maintained by some group at LLNL

[04:52:12]

wagnerrp:

running zpool version 28

[04:52:17]

srk9:

I think I will stick with LVM and mdadm RAID 6 for now. It does what I want.

[04:52:34]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[04:52:59]

hoolio:

i love zfs

[04:53:09]

clever:

ive been using xfs lately

[04:53:44]

hoolio:

not really the same thing though are they..

[04:54:02]

clever:

dont remember much about zfs so i cant compare them

[04:54:46]

wagnerrp:

xfs is just a filesystem with heavy memory caching

[04:55:05]

hoolio:

developed by sun, replaces hardware raid, end to end checksumming, snapshotting, cloning, replication, deduplication, compression.. encryption

[04:55:05]

srk9:

I tend to prefer RedHat-backed things on Linux. :/

[04:55:06]

wagnerrp:

zfs is a filesystem, volume manager, raid implementation, all rolled into one

[04:55:09]

hoolio:

does everything!

[04:55:19]

hoolio:

except it's not GPL :(

[04:55:27]

srk9:

I would prefer it if it were BSD.

[04:55:29]

clever:

ah yeah

[04:55:40]

hoolio:

there is a native bsd port

[04:55:44]

hoolio:

very mature i've heard

[04:56:08]

srk9:

I meant BSD licensed, but yes. The FreeBSD people are supposed to love ZFS.

[04:56:11]

wagnerrp:

ive been using it for years

[04:56:25]

hoolio:

the BSD port is BSD licenced ;)

[04:56:29]

srk9:

I am planning to learn FreeBSD.

[04:56:30]

hoolio:

wagnerrp, on solaris?

[04:56:36]

srk9:

hoolio: Really?

[04:56:44]

srk9:

If it is FreeBSD licensed, then Linux could use it...

[04:56:49]

srk9:

*BSD

[04:57:11]

wagnerrp:

on bsd

[04:57:22]

srk9:

I don't think it is BSD licensed. Linux would have stolen it.

[04:57:46]

srk9:

Not all software in FreeBSD is BSD licensed. GCC for instance is not.

[04:57:53]

hoolio:

well, there is zfs on linux

[04:58:10]

hoolio:

some of that code may have been borrowed from bsd

[04:58:11]

srk9:

Some stuff is under a propietary license that simply says that they can use it as much as they want.

[04:58:33]

hoolio:

okay

[04:59:00]

hoolio:

wagnerrp, wot pool version are you running?

[04:59:36]

wagnerrp:

14 or 15 i believe

[04:59:41]

wagnerrp:

whatever 8.2 has

[04:59:50]

wagnerrp:

8.3 and 9.0 will both use version 28

[05:00:00]

hoolio:

coool

[05:00:12]

hoolio:

apparently you need to copy the data off and back on again to get dedup

[05:00:25]

hoolio:

you can't just something over your existing data

[05:00:49]

srk9:

http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-200 . . . eBSD-and-ZFS

[05:00:58]

srk9:

"ZFS was ported from the OpenSolaris operating system and is under CDDL license."

[05:01:18]

hoolio:

very interesting.

[05:01:29]

wagnerrp:

hoolio: thats not very surprising

[05:01:31]

srk9:

Wikipedia claims that 8.2 has version 28.

[05:01:40]

wagnerrp:

you have to do the same thing when you enable compression

[05:01:44]

hoolio:

so, linux wont accept CDDL code into the kernel wheras bsd does?

[05:01:49]

hoolio:

or how does that work?

[05:02:14]

srk9:

hoolio: GPL software is intolerant of others. :/

[05:02:17]

wagnerrp:

BSD has always been much more forgiving as far as software licensing is concerned than linux

[05:02:27]

hoolio:

interesting

[05:02:44]

wagnerrp:

srk9: 8.2 uses zpool version 15

[05:02:51]

srk9:

GPL software is concerned about not putting itself in a position where people "steal" from it, but it steals from BSD software all the time.

[05:03:02]

srk9:

wagnerrp: Wikipedia was wrong.

[05:03:08]

wagnerrp:

8-stable, which will be branched into 8.3, currently uses 28

[05:03:14]

wagnerrp:

it says that right on the wikipedia page

[05:03:16]

wagnerrp:

you read it wrong

[05:03:28]

wagnerrp:

or, its contradicting itself

[05:03:30]

hoolio:

wagnerrp, i don't suppose you're running myth on bsd too?

[05:03:33]

srk9:

I'm ignorant. I didn't know that FreeBSD stable was different from 8.2

[05:03:47]

srk9:

It is either that or Gentoo.

[05:03:52]

wagnerrp:

its like 0.24-fixes

[05:04:07]

simcop2387 (simcop2387!~simcop238@p3m/member/simcop2387) has quit (Excess Flood)

[05:04:09]

wagnerrp:

theres 0.24.0, 0.24.1, both point releases along the 0.24-fixes branch

[05:04:21]

wagnerrp:

but the zpool was bumped after the 8.2 point release

[05:04:39]

srk9:

I might install MythTV on FreeBSD if I'm not happy with it on Gentoo. I have been meaning to learn FreeBSD and it would give me the opportunity to learn.

[05:04:42]

wagnerrp:

hoolio: yes, freebsd master backend/fileserver/database

[05:05:19]

srk9:

wagnerrp: I take it you are even more concerned about reliability than I am. FreeBSD is supposed to be more reliable than Linux.

[05:06:03]

srk9:

By the way, it is possible to install Gentoo/FreeBSD and get both worlds. Unfortunately, that has some bugs. :/

[05:06:12]

wagnerrp:

no, i just chose it because like 8 years ago, it supported by controller cards out of the box

[05:06:22]

wagnerrp:

while a handful of linux distros didnt understand how to use them

[05:06:28]

srk9:

wagnerrp: lol

[05:06:28]

wagnerrp:

s/by/my/

[05:06:37]

srk9:

Thank Yahoo. They probably are the reason why.

[05:06:48]

hoolio:

wagnerrp, now you're using zfs, are you still using RAID? :)

[05:06:57]

simcop2387 (simcop2387!~simcop238@p3m/member/simcop2387) has joined #mythtv-users

[05:07:01]

wagnerrp:

my OS disks are a zraid mirror

[05:07:15]

wagnerrp:

my storage array is a 9-disk raid6 on an areca card

[05:07:16]

hoolio:

but not hardware raid

[05:07:22]

hoolio:

ahh interesting

[05:07:24]

wagnerrp:

but im going to replace that with zraid next time i upgrade

[05:07:28]

hoolio:

yep

[05:07:33]

hoolio:

JBOD

[05:07:34]

hoolio:

?

[05:08:10]

wagnerrp:

that was not the plan

[05:08:20]

wagnerrp:

JBOD implies you are hooking them in through a raid controller

[05:08:29]

wagnerrp:

i was hoping to pick up just a cheap disk controller

[05:08:31]

hoolio:

it does

[05:08:45]

hoolio:

but i suspect your motherboard doesn't have 9 sata ports

[05:09:03]

wagnerrp:

as mentioned, im using raid6 on the areca card

[05:09:19]

hoolio:

"but im going to replace that with zraid next time i upgrade"

[05:09:35]

wagnerrp:

yes, upgrade the system, upgrade the disks

[05:09:52]

hoolio:

and ditch the hardware raid controller?

[05:09:54]

wagnerrp:

at which point i wouldnt have 9 750GB disks, and still be running out of space

[05:09:56]

wagnerrp:

yes

[05:10:25]

hoolio:

why?

[05:10:45]

wagnerrp:

why use zraid instead of hardware?

[05:11:21]

hoolio:

you just limit the number of disks you can address if you remove the RAID card

[05:11:30]

srk9:

Hardare RAID is a contradiction. :/

[05:11:32]

wagnerrp:

how so?

[05:11:49]

kormoc:

inexpensive I'd guess

[05:11:50]

hoolio:

because i suspect your motherboard doesn't have 9 sata ports

[05:11:50]

srk9:

RAID = Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks

[05:12:08]

wagnerrp:

hoolio: i cant use controller cards?

[05:12:15]

k-man:

I doubt personally that software RAID could compete in performance with hardware raid

[05:12:18]

srk9:

If you are buying expensive controllers and expensive disks for those controllers, then it isn't inexpensive, is it?

[05:12:25]

hoolio:

you already have one :) a RAID controller card

[05:12:38]

k-man:

but thats when you consider real RAID cards and not those toys they like to sell to consumer

[05:12:38]

hoolio:

just present the disks as JBOD and you're done

[05:12:38]

kormoc:

k-man, surprisingly for a large number of situations, it can, and even out-perform

[05:12:49]

k-man:

kormoc, interesting

[05:13:02]

srk9:

k-man: It beats it in endurance. You can lose all of your data when your controller dies.

[05:13:19]

wagnerrp:

srk9: why would controller dying be a problem?

[05:13:32]

k-man:

can't you just replace the controller?

[05:13:34]

kormoc:

k-man, the kernel/kernel drivers with software raid have a lot better intelligence to plan the io then a controller having to pretend to be a single scsi target

[05:13:37]

srk9:

wagnerrp: It is unsupported and no longer in production.

[05:13:37]

wagnerrp:

all you lose is whats in flight in the cache, and perhaps anything it manages to corrupt on the way out

[05:13:49]

hoolio:

because often you have to replace it with the SAME controller or the new one can't see your old dataset

[05:13:50]

k-man:

kormoc, I see

[05:14:00]

wagnerrp:

usually the formatting RAID controllers use is forward supported for several generations

[05:14:03]

srk9:

No replacement controller compatible with the disk format means you need a team of experts.

[05:14:09]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, older controllers had issues where you need to match firmware versions or else the data was gone. It's not much of an issue these days

[05:14:16]

wagnerrp:

i can replace my current RAID controller with any other card from areca, and be fine

[05:14:24]

srk9:

Someone in #gentoo had it happen to him at work.

[05:14:38]

wagnerrp:

in fact i have tested it, trying to diagnose some issue with a card at work by swapping it with my own card

[05:14:38]

k-man:

kormoc, I thought though, for RAID[56], there is a lot of computation required to calculate the redundant bits, and that can be expensive in CPU time

[05:14:39]

srk9:

He told them it needed to be replaced and they didn't listen.

[05:14:49]

wagnerrp:

swapped their ARC-1120 with my ARC-1230

[05:14:51]

srk9:

They also didn't believe in backups either.

[05:15:02]

hoolio:

wagnerrp, it may have worked in that instance

[05:15:05]

srk9:

k-man: Multicore helps there.

[05:15:06]

hoolio:

but it's not a good idea generally

[05:15:15]

kormoc:

k-man, the majority of computers have ample cpu time. It's typically just a few precent of cpu usage that would typically go idle

[05:15:24]

srk9:

It is up to 30% in my case. :/

[05:15:49]

srk9:

I am seeing up to 30% of the CPU go to the kernel with my AMD Phenom X2 555

[05:15:58]

srk9:

or was...

[05:15:59]

kormoc:

it all depends on the hardware/workload

[05:16:20]

k-man:

kormoc, damn I just sold my RAID server – would have been interesting to do some testing on it

[05:16:22]

srk9:

I realized that my memory was in single channel mode. I fixed that and it is now more like no more than 10% to 15%.

[05:16:49]

hoolio:

k-man, zfs does more than RAID too

[05:16:52]

hoolio:

alot more

[05:16:58]

hoolio:

because it is also a filesystem

[05:17:00]

srk9:

That is when I am doing super disk intensive stuff.

[05:17:02]

wagnerrp:

hoolio: im talking about something cheap like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816117157

[05:17:21]

wagnerrp:

id actually prefer something dumber, but the lack of cache means theres not going to be a lot in the way

[05:17:25]

hoolio:

wagnerrp, yeah, fair enough for a new system

[05:17:29]

srk9:

I am thinking of getting one of those for software RAID. I am running out of ports and I want more drives. :/

[05:17:40]

hoolio:

but why just not use your old RAID card in JBOD?

[05:17:45]

hoolio:

it's cheaper

[05:18:04]

k-man:

hoolio, yes, I hear good things about zfs

[05:18:08]

wagnerrp:

i can sell it for several hundred on ebay?

[05:18:10]

Gumby (Gumby!~gumby@unaffiliated/gumby) has joined #mythtv-users

[05:18:11]

k-man:

not tried it pesonaly yet

[05:18:14]

wagnerrp:

at least the $150 this thing costs

[05:18:22]

wagnerrp:

and it will be a much less bulky card

[05:18:30]

hoolio:

hang on, this cheap one is a RAID card too

[05:18:38]

wagnerrp:

yeah... kind of

[05:18:43]

wagnerrp:

only 0/1/10

[05:18:47]

hoolio:

;)

[05:18:49]

wagnerrp:

that hardly takes any power

[05:18:59]

srk9:

I wish FreeBSD supported KVM. :/

[05:19:37]

srk9:

I hear so many good things about ZFS on FreeBSD that it would be a really nice host with proper virtualization support.

[05:20:19]

wagnerrp:

just about anything that runs on linux will run on freebsd

[05:20:26]

wagnerrp:

and in many cases, you can do it without recompiling

[05:20:38]

wagnerrp:

so unless you need to run windows for something, i dont see why thats a problem

[05:20:41]

srk9:

I'm a Gentoo Linux user. I must recompile. :P

[05:21:27]

wagnerrp:

theres a port to install the gentoo userland, it will be like running natively

[05:21:41]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)

[05:24:23]

srk9:

wagnerrp: Do you know which?

[05:24:55]

wagnerrp:

probably in compat/, been a while since ive used any of that

[05:25:06]

srk9:

I found it: emulators/linux_dist-gentoo-stage3

[05:25:32]

wagnerrp:

its probably fairly old

[05:25:38]

srk9:

20110809

[05:25:56]

wagnerrp:

or not

[05:26:11]

srk9:

They were updating it like every 2 weeks. Then stopped.

[05:27:16]

srk9:

That is funny though. FreeBSD uses Gentoo for Linux Support and Gentoo has a FreeBSD deriverative.

[05:27:36]

wagnerrp:

there are ports for multiple different userlands

[05:27:50]

wagnerrp:

and gentoo is in part based on the concepts of freebsd

[05:28:08]

wagnerrp:

the portage system was inspired by (and much improved upon) the freebsd ports system

[05:28:14]

srk9:

It is a shame it wasn't BSD licensed.

[05:28:18]

srk9:

It could have gone back to FreeBSD.

[05:29:12]

wagnerrp:

the ports tree is extremely basic

[05:29:19]

wagnerrp:

its completely Make based

[05:29:26]

srk9:

I tried FreeBSD once. It was on the data drive that died. :(

[05:29:36]

wagnerrp:

package dependency is handled at compile time

[05:29:56]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to a scanner that goes through and decides before hand what it needs to install

[05:30:12]

wagnerrp:

so it doesnt support things like upgrading gracefully

[05:30:21]

srk9:

Aren't they working on an improved package manager?

[05:30:26]

wagnerrp:

there are some external applications designed to improve this

[05:30:31]

wagnerrp:

but theyre all a bit of a kludge

[05:30:35]

wagnerrp:

not that im aware of

[05:30:51]

srk9:

It has some sort of leaf cutter if I recall correctly.

[05:31:06]

srk9:

It will wipe your entire system if you let it

[05:31:45]

wagnerrp:

there are several applications that wrap ports, with the intent of providing more portage-like behavior

[05:31:54]

wagnerrp:

but i dont know of anything intending to replace it entirely

[05:32:12]

srk9:

I guess that is what I read that they were doing.

[05:32:36]

srk9:

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/bsd/fbsd/

[05:32:58]

srk9:

Gentoo has taken care of it. It isn't very popular though and it is not well maintained unfortunately.

[05:33:08]

srk9:

Gentoo is still on FreeBSD 8.0.

[05:34:17]

wagnerrp:

personally, id love to see the whole ports and init infrastructure in freebsd replaced

[05:34:35]

wagnerrp:

they work for what they do, but theyre extremely basic

[05:34:46]

srk9:

wagnerrp: You could help the Gentoo people bring Gentoo/FreeBSD to parity with Gentoo Linux.

[05:35:17]

wagnerrp:

the init system is a horrendously complex web of macros and subroutines written in a modified bourne interpreter

[05:35:26]

srk9:

Gentoo's?

[05:35:32]

wagnerrp:

freebsd's

[05:35:41]

srk9:

Gentoo uses OpenRC. It did away with the System V init.

[05:36:05]

srk9:

That happened earlier this year.

[05:36:21]

srk9:

It took them like 10 years to do it.

[05:36:38]

srk9:

Anyway, Gentoo/FreeBSD uses Gentoo's init system.

[05:37:10]

srk9:

"Gentoo/FreeBSD aims to provide a complete FreeBSD-based system using Gentoo design principles. This means that it's going to use the Gentoo init system, administration utilities and toolchain support."

[05:37:14]

wagnerrp:

i didnt think gentoo or freebsd ever used the sysv init system

[05:37:21]

wagnerrp:

not while ive been using them anyway

[05:37:26]

srk9:

The old init system was System V based I think.

[05:37:30]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@173.208.87.10) has joined #mythtv-users

[05:37:42]

srk9:

At least that is what all of these legacy Linux init systems have been called. :/

[05:39:00]

wagnerrp:

my problem with the freebsd init system is that its complexity far outstrips the capability of the language it is written in

[05:39:18]

srk9:

You would probably be happy with Gentoo/FreeBSD if it were ready for production use.

[05:39:45]

wagnerrp:

they do things like make faux function pointers, using variables to build the name of the function they are going to run

[05:40:11]

srk9:

Turing completeness says that is okay.

[05:40:25]

wagnerrp:

so theyre dynamically throwing crap all over the place, to shoe horn functionality in ways it was never supposed to happen

[05:40:54]

wagnerrp:

i tried making some modifications to the jail init script about a year back

[05:41:13]

wagnerrp:

before going nuts trying to contort my head around all the back referencing

[05:41:26]

wagnerrp:

giving up, and just rewriting a new one from scratch

[05:42:15]

wagnerrp:

which ended up being almost as hard, as i still had to figure out what the official one was doing in the first place

[05:42:47]

quentusrex_ (quentusrex_!~quentusre@freeswitch/developer/quentusrex) has joined #mythtv-users

[05:45:59]

wagnerrp:

but as much as i complain about it

[05:46:12]

wagnerrp:

i cant see myself switching to one of the linuxes

[05:47:02]

wagnerrp:

i like the folder layout, and it pretty much just gets out of the way and lets you do your own thing

[05:47:26]

wagnerrp:

all the linux distros today seem to be pushing hard towards doing everything for you, whether you like it or not

[05:53:50]

NickG365 (NickG365!~NickG365@cpe-65-189-204-138.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[05:54:19]

hoolio:

what do you mean folder layout?

[05:55:31]

srk9:

wagnerrp: Gentoo/FreeBSD is not Linux.

[05:56:01]

srk9:

And Gentoo's main strength is that it stays out of your way.

[05:57:23]

k-man:

personaly, I like debian

[05:57:28]

wagnerrp:

srk9: right, ideologically, its similar to freebsd, which is why i ended up there when i needed linux tuner support

[05:58:18]

wagnerrp:

hoolio: i mean, where it wants to put stuff

[05:58:39]

wagnerrp:

for instance, most linux distros stuff everything into /usr

[05:58:46]

hoolio:

they do?

[05:59:00]

wagnerrp:

from my experience

[05:59:06]

wagnerrp:

any installed packages go in /usr

[05:59:27]

wagnerrp:

while core stuff goes to root

[05:59:31]

hoolio:

oh

[05:59:35]

hoolio:

that's messy

[05:59:52]

hoolio:

k-man, politics aside, what's the real difference between ubuntu-server and debian server?

[06:00:01]

wagnerrp:

freebsd, core stuff goes to /, the base system goes to /usr, anything after that goes into /usr/local

[06:00:15]

wagnerrp:

you can simply wipe out /usr/local, and youre right back to a freshly installed system

[06:00:41]

hoolio:

doesn't installed stuff also end up in /etc and /var ?

[06:01:04]

wagnerrp:

installed packages go to /usr/local/etc

[06:01:13]

hoolio:

oh ic

[06:01:18]

k-man:

hoolio, to be honest I have no idea -all I can say is that every time I use ubuntu I found it did things I was not expecting

[06:01:22]

wagnerrp:

some runtime data goes to /var, but thats of little consequence

[06:01:35]

wagnerrp:

thats the other thing

[06:01:38]

hoolio:

interesting

[06:01:41]

wagnerrp:

NO SERVER DATA IN /var!

[06:01:42]

[R] ([R]!~rbox@unaffiliated/rbox) has quit (Quit: Leaving)

[06:01:54]

wagnerrp:

FFS, i absolutely hate it that ubuntu does that

[06:02:02]

hoolio:

um, why?

[06:02:04]

srk9:

wagnerrp: That is sort of like on Gentoo, except that the base system on FreeBSD is analogous to everything that the package manager installs on Gentoo.

[06:02:24]

srk9:

/usr/local is reserved for stuff you compile outside of the package manager, which is sort of like what you do with ports.

[06:02:43]

wagnerrp:

because /var is for variable data, transient stuff only used temporarily

[06:03:03]

wagnerrp:

print and mail spools, packager records, logs that will be flushed out in short order

[06:03:06]

srk9:

Is /var/www bad idea?

[06:03:11]

hoolio:

:)

[06:03:15]

wagnerrp:

not web servers and recording storage

[06:03:18]

wagnerrp:

srk9: IMHO, yes

[06:03:59]

srk9:

Apache puts it there on Gentoo. I thought that was where it was supposed to go because Solaris did it that way too.

[06:04:01]

hoolio:

i've no issue with server stuff in var

[06:04:21]

srk9:

hoolio: It is a philosophical issue.

[06:04:23]

hoolio:

nor configs of any kind in /etc/

[06:04:37]

hoolio:

wether i installed them or not

[06:04:49]

srk9:

You could get away with everything in root without directories in theory...

[06:04:50]

hoolio:

fancy having to remember what i installed and what i didnt

[06:04:51]

wagnerrp:

the stock freebsd installer wants a /var partition somewhere between 512MB and 2GB, depending on the size of your system disk

[06:04:58]

hoolio:

and then go find the right config file

[06:05:06]

kormoc (kormoc!~kormoc@mythtv/developer/kormoc) has left #mythtv-users ()

[06:05:09]

srk9:

I never make a /var partition. :/

[06:05:13]

hoolio:

my /var is 2tb

[06:05:15]

hoolio:

;)

[06:06:16]

wagnerrp:

thats just ridiculous

[06:06:26]

dekarl:

then go root-on-zfs and have you / and /var and /usr all sharing the same free space of your root pool

[06:06:47]

hoolio:

not when you consider the default storage location for myth is /var

[06:06:49]

k-man:

wagnerrp, where do you put all your mythtv directories, like for recordings/videos/music etc?

[06:06:55]

hoolio:

so i've 500gb of crap right there that's in var

[06:07:03]

hoolio:

because ostensibly myth told me to

[06:07:15]

hoolio:

well

[06:07:24]

hoolio:

myth on ubuntu told me to ;)

[06:07:28]

wagnerrp:

k-man: /srv or /mnt or /usr/home/mythtv

[06:07:42]

wagnerrp:

hoolio: right, mythtv doesnt make any such recommendations

[06:08:22]

k-man:

where does the /var/lib/mythtv home path for mythtv come from? is that a debian thing?

[06:08:32]

wagnerrp:

thats a mythbuntu thing

[06:08:38]

hoolio:

really?

[06:08:41]

wagnerrp:

they pre-seed the database with a lot of settings

[06:08:41]

hoolio:

interesting

[06:09:05]

k-man:

wagnerrp, I think the debian-multimedia packages copy it also – and then I adopted it from there as I used to use those packages

[06:09:14]

k-man:

and now I feel dirty for using it ;)

[06:09:25]

hoolio:

i thought ubuntu never contributed to debian? ;)

[06:09:42]

wagnerrp:

nothing says debian cant take from ubuntu

[06:10:09]

hoolio:

no, i know.

[06:11:00]

hoolio:

apparently there's just tension in the debian community that ubuntu doesn't commit to fixes back upstream to debian

[06:11:45]

wagnerrp:

theres tension in the bsd community when linux takes assorted drivers, and re-licenses them GPL

[06:12:35]

wagnerrp:

technically, the BSD license is specifically set up to allow such

[06:12:40]

wagnerrp:

but its a douchy thing to do

[06:13:25]

hoolio:

i guess alot of the contributor attributions get lost like that

[06:14:06]

hoolio:

not to mention potential for forks on account of licensing issues

[06:14:14]

wagnerrp:

hoolio: more importantly, further contributions to the linux/gpl version of the driver cannot make it back into the bsd licensed version of the driver

[06:14:26]

wagnerrp:

the GPL is viral

[06:14:26]

hoolio:

snap

[06:14:33]

wagnerrp:

everything it touches must become GPL

[06:17:16]

hoolio:

so what happens to that GPL code? how would it make it to BSD?

[06:17:28]

hoolio:

someone has to reinvent it not to be in breach of the gpl?

[06:17:36]

wagnerrp:

the writer of that GPL code dual-licenses it

[06:17:41]

hoolio:

ah

[06:17:45]

hoolio:

and if they dont?

[06:17:55]

wagnerrp:

or just licenses it BSD, at which point someone else can re-license it GPL

[06:18:00]

srk9:

hoolio: Linux does to FreeBSD what Google did to Linux.

[06:18:17]

srk9:

s/Google/Android

[06:18:20]

srk9:

*s/Google/Android/

[06:18:34]

Gumby:

hrm, this is odd... I am removing apache from my backend server... I ran "sudo apt-get purge apache2.2-common apache2.2-bin apache2-utils apache2-mpm-prefork"....

[06:18:41]

Gumby:

...and ubuntu wants to install apache packages

[06:19:01]

Gumby:

oh.. wait

[06:19:16]

hoolio:

..

[06:19:20]

Gumby:

no, that should be right

[06:19:26]

** Gumby blinks **

[06:20:42]

ubIx_ (ubIx_!~ulf@p5DD18167.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #mythtv-users

[06:21:05]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@173.208.87.10) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[06:24:28]

ubIx (ubIx!~ulf@p5DD18635.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[06:26:09]

hpeter (hpeter!~hpeter@178-83-235-5.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has joined #mythtv-users

[06:31:00]

FabriceMG (FabriceMG!~MARTIN@217.112.59.207) has joined #mythtv-users

[06:36:29]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[06:38:16]

KaZeR (KaZeR!~kazer@176.170.67.86.rev.sfr.net) has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)

[06:46:33]

hpeter (hpeter!~hpeter@178-83-235-5.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has quit (Quit: hpeter)

[06:51:11]

Scopeuk-AFK is now known as Scopeuk

[06:53:13]

KaZeR (KaZeR!~kazer@176.170.67.86.rev.sfr.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[06:57:42]

jya (jya!~jyavenard@mythtv/developer/jya) has joined #mythtv-users

[07:02:20]

hoolio (hoolio!~hoolio@eth235.tas.adsl.internode.on.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[07:04:03]

hpeter (hpeter!~hpeter@120-216.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #mythtv-users

[07:11:23]

Scopeuk is now known as Scopeuk-AFK

[07:30:49]

KaZeR (KaZeR!~kazer@176.170.67.86.rev.sfr.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[07:31:29]

sraue (sraue!~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)

[07:32:03]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)

[07:32:43]

troyt (troyt!~troyt@PariahZero.broker.freenet6.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[07:35:37]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has joined #mythtv-users

[07:45:38]

troyt (troyt!~troyt@c-67-166-68-75.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[07:46:56]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)

[08:00:42]

Hydr0p0nX (Hydr0p0nX!~hydr@68.117.250.114) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:03:17]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:04:17]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has quit (Client Quit)

[08:17:44]

MMlosh (MMlosh!~MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:1ec1:deff:fea2:2486) has quit (Excess Flood)

[08:18:11]

MMlosh (MMlosh!~MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:dc1e:b7eb:d957:31b0) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:19:22]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-183-61.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:23:12]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:27:58]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-183-61.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[08:36:13]

lyricnz (lyricnz!~simonrobe@ppp118-209-14-159.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:36:47]

waxhead (waxhead!~pete@ppp121-45-209-123.lns20.cbr1.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:40:54]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-183-61.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:49:07]

NULL[NULL[0]] (NULL[NULL[0]]!~fred@e181004036.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:50:47]

hashbang (hashbang!~isajb@2001:630:e4:1212:230:48ff:febf:1392) has joined #mythtv-users

[08:52:29]

NULL[0] (NULL[0]!~fred@e181006249.adsl.alicedsl.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[08:57:25]

cafuego (cafuego!~cafuego@luv/admin/cafuego) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[08:58:08]

cafuego (cafuego!~cafuego@luv/admin/cafuego) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:03:45]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:04:00]

KaZeR (KaZeR!~kazer@245.43.195.77.rev.sfr.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:06:20]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-183-61.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[09:12:27]

Gumby (Gumby!~gumby@unaffiliated/gumby) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[09:12:30]

Gumby` (Gumby`!~gumby@S010600151714fce2.vc.shawcable.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:12:31]

Gumby` (Gumby`!~gumby@S010600151714fce2.vc.shawcable.net) has quit (Changing host)

[09:12:31]

Gumby` (Gumby`!~gumby@unaffiliated/gumby) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:12:45]

dewman (dewman!~dewman@68-188-231-61.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[09:12:50]

Gumby` is now known as Gumby

[09:15:04]

dewman (dewman!~dewman@68-188-231-61.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:18:37]

westlock3:

anyone around?

[09:19:38]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-221-59.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:23:23]

fendrychl (fendrychl!~fendrychl@ns1.neomezeny-hosting.cz) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:25:03]

fendrychl (fendrychl!~fendrychl@ns1.neomezeny-hosting.cz) has left #mythtv-users ()

[09:25:26]

westlock3:

What is the difference between recieving DVB-c versus Analog from a cable provider?

[09:27:16]

westlock3:

What does the lack of a proper edid number from a LCD or TV mean regarding HDMI output to speakers?

[09:27:55]

westlock3:

What do most people use for NAS or storage in general?

[09:33:43]

justinh:

westlock3: analog vs digital? digital offers surround sound, the ability to securely encrypt streams... and capture multiple streams at the same time using only one tuner... analogue doesn't offer any advantage other than it potentially requires cheaper hardware to capture

[09:34:16]

justinh:

vastly depends on your cable provider really

[09:34:47]

justinh:

digital cable potentially means you get very good quality video & sound compared to analogue.. and more channels

[09:36:19]

justinh:

but since you're in the US.. it may mean you won't be able to capture all the channels you pay for

[09:46:50]

westlock3:

Well I get all the channels I had before but they all come through the device I've defined as Analog. It is a basic cable subscription that gets tossed into my internet account.

[09:47:16]

westlock3:

So I'm simply recieving analog correct and digital if they send it down the pipe on a few channels.

[09:49:06]

justinh:

BTW it's not dvb-c in the US.. you lot call it QAM

[09:49:20]

justinh:

even though QAM is just the modulation method

[09:49:58]

Goga777 (Goga777!~Goga777@shpd-95-53-166-2.vologda.ru) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:50:29]

deegan (deegan!~deegan@88-83-55-175.customer.t3.se) has quit (Quit: brb)

[09:50:52]

justinh:

anyway some people get all they pay for over digital cable, others get nothing.. some get some

[09:51:09]

justinh:

YMMV, depending on who the provider is & where you happen to live

[09:52:11]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:55:35]

rclark (rclark!~rclark@78-86-112-140.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)

[09:55:58]

westlock3:

okay so I just saw a commercial advertising "Discovery Channel" in HD does that mean that channel is broadcast in HD and I recieve it as such?

[09:56:40]

justinh:

no, it means if you can get the channel called 'Discovery Channel HD' it'll be HD

[09:56:52]

justinh:

otherwise it won't be HD

[09:56:57]

justinh:

the clue is in the channel name

[09:58:37]

lyricnz (lyricnz!~simonrobe@ppp118-209-14-159.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[09:58:52]

lyricnz (lyricnz!~simonrobe@ppp118-209-14-159.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[09:59:04]

justinh:

you should check with your cable provider. I doubt very much that Discovery HD is in any basic lineup

[09:59:15]

justinh:

or even Discovery in SD

[10:00:52]

westlock3:

From Canada here using the Shaw network.

[10:01:45]

westlock3:

Get close to 70 channels in the basic setup I've had for years.

[10:02:02]

justinh:

well, I honestly doubt any 'basic' lineup includes HD

[10:02:08]

justinh:

but check with the provider as I said

[10:02:15]

westlock3:

kk

[10:05:02]

mike|3 (mike|3!~mike@c-24-21-63-118.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[10:05:53]

mike|2 (mike|2!~mike@c-24-21-63-118.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[10:06:38]

westlock3:

On my Samsung set downstairs when I do a channel scan I get channel scans that produce audion on like 62–20 for example. Are those digital music channels?

[10:06:59]

justinh:

possibly

[10:07:09]

justinh:

why not ask the cable provider? :-)

[10:08:00]

westlock3:

I'm checking the site now.

[10:19:25]

Hydr0p0nX (Hydr0p0nX!~hydr@68.117.250.114) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)

[10:26:12]

dkeith (dkeith!~dkeith@pool-173-48-214-68.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)

[10:33:08]

mattwj2002 (mattwj2002!~matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has joined #mythtv-users

[10:33:13]

mattwj2002:

hi guys

[10:34:38]

mattwj2002:

anyone here wagnerrp?

[10:35:45]

zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has joined #mythtv-users

[10:37:00]

mattwj2002:

how hard is getting a cable card going?

[10:40:06]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)

[10:41:23]

oobe (oobe!~thingo@insidiousramblings.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[10:41:23]

oobe (oobe!~thingo@unaffiliated/oobe) has joined #mythtv-users

[10:41:23]

oobe (oobe!~thingo@insidiousramblings.com) has quit (Changing host)

[10:52:34]

oobe (oobe!~thingo@insidiousramblings.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[10:52:34]

oobe (oobe!~thingo@unaffiliated/oobe) has joined #mythtv-users

[10:52:34]

oobe (oobe!~thingo@insidiousramblings.com) has quit (Changing host)

[10:53:30]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has joined #mythtv-users

[10:56:47]

sraue (sraue!~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #mythtv-users

[10:56:47]

zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[10:57:36]

sraue (sraue!~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[10:59:43]

justinh:

oh btw uk peeps.. I saw some freesat when I was on holiday, on a 42" plasma. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Nasty artifacty awful yukky horrible crap picture quality

[11:00:05]

justinh:

BBC channels were better than others but they were all pretty crummy

[11:03:01]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)

[11:04:38]

Goga777 (Goga777!~Goga777@shpd-95-53-166-2.vologda.ru) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[11:06:49]

ICM^ (ICM^!~ian@icm.student.rit.edu) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)

[11:09:01]

EvilGuru:

justinh: It does depend, freesat channels tend to be at a lower resolutio

[11:09:24]

EvilGuru:

So you get far fewer artefacts, but it looks grim when blown up

[11:14:24]

fleers (fleers!~fleers@cpe-76-93-149-124.san.res.rr.com) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)

[11:14:47]

sraue (sraue!~stephan@6-46-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch) has joined #mythtv-users

[11:14:54]

sraue (sraue!~stephan@6-46-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch) has quit (Changing host)

[11:14:54]

sraue (sraue!~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #mythtv-users

[11:15:21]

zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has joined #mythtv-users

[11:20:17]

zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)

[11:20:19]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-221-59.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)

[11:21:44]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has joined #mythtv-users

[11:24:39]

ahhughez_ (ahhughez_!~owner@182-239-134-106.ip.adam.com.au) has joined #mythtv-users

[11:27:57]

seeker_ (seeker_!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has joined #mythtv-users

[11:31:15]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)

[11:31:18]

seeker_ is now known as seeker

[11:31:56]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has quit (Client Quit)

[11:33:49]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-229-102.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[11:43:46]

croppa (croppa!~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[11:44:51]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-229-102.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)

[11:48:26]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)

[11:48:38]

ahhughez_:

heya, Im trying http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/ACPI_Wakeup but `grep -i rtc /var/log/kern.log` has no output... does this mean my motherboard does not support ACPI Wakeup?

[11:51:05]

ahhughez_ (ahhughez_!~owner@182-239-134-106.ip.adam.com.au) has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)

[11:57:23]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-242-166.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[12:00:41]

mattwj2002 (mattwj2002!~matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)

[12:06:04]

nooneami (nooneami!~nooneami@209-6-138-173.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com) has quit (Quit: nooneami)

[12:06:47]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has joined #mythtv-users

[12:09:20]

natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #mythtv-users

[12:14:57]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has joined #mythtv-users

[12:15:37]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has quit (Client Quit)

[12:16:23]

seeker (seeker!~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker) has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)

[12:19:28]

fleers (fleers!~fleers@12.69.234.130) has joined #mythtv-users

[12:20:28]

fleers (fleers!~fleers@12.69.234.130) has quit (Client Quit)

[12:20:48]

fleers (fleers!~fleers@12.69.234.130) has joined #mythtv-users

[12:28:00]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-242-166.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[12:41:11]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-49-30.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[13:05:36]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v MythLogBot

[13:10:39]

map7_ (map7_!~map7@ppp118-209-49-30.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)

[13:13:15]

squidly (squidly!~squidly@HoodLUG/member/squidly) has joined #mythtv-users

[13:15:36]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has joined #mythtv-users

[13:22:05]

zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has joined #mythtv-users

[13:23:56]

sulx (sulx!~sulx@85-23-15-158.bb.dnainternet.fi) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)

[13:27:07]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)

[13:33:15]

j-rod|afk is now known as j-rod

[13:37:51]

justinh:

arghhh. my parents are following me on twitter now. Time to bin the account

[13:38:56]

sid3windr:

:)

[13:44:12]

tomimo (tomimo!~kurre@xdsl-83-150-88-111.nebulazone.fi) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[13:47:11]

pheld (pheld!~heldal@cl-5.osl-01.no.sixxs.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[13:50:53]

Sulx (Sulx!~sulx@85-23-15-158.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #mythtv-users

[13:51:42]

Sulx (Sulx!~sulx@85-23-15-158.bb.dnainternet.fi) has quit (Client Quit)

[13:52:14]

Ryushin (Ryushin!proxy@cl-412.phx-01.us.sixxs.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[13:56:52]

sulx (sulx!~sulx@85-23-15-158.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:04:12]

tomimo (tomimo!~kurre@xdsl-83-150-88-111.nebulazone.fi) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:05:35]

jpabq__ (jpabq__!~jpabq@174-28-167-122.albq.qwest.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:05:35]

jpabq__ (jpabq__!~jpabq@174-28-167-122.albq.qwest.net) has quit (Changing host)

[14:05:35]

jpabq__ (jpabq__!~jpabq@mythtv/developer/jpabq) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:06:16]

jpabq__ (jpabq__!~jpabq@mythtv/developer/jpabq) has quit (Client Quit)

[14:08:57]

jpabq_ (jpabq_!~jpabq@mythtv/developer/jpabq) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)

[14:17:59]

j-rod is now known as j-rod|afk

[14:18:03]

j-rod|afk is now known as j-rod

[14:19:43]

sulx (sulx!~sulx@85-23-15-158.bb.dnainternet.fi) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[14:23:30]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[14:23:46]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:25:20]

dmz (dmz!~dmz@64.203.235.49.dyn-cm-pool-34.pool.hargray.net) has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)

[14:33:36]

Cardoe (Cardoe!~Cardoe@hsv.pikewerks.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:33:36]

Cardoe (Cardoe!~Cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:33:36]

Cardoe (Cardoe!~Cardoe@hsv.pikewerks.com) has quit (Changing host)

[14:39:46]

Seeker`:

justinh: see any freeview HD?

[14:41:54]

justinh:

Seeker`: not in Spain I wouldn't

[14:42:13]

Seeker`:

*freesat HD

[14:42:21]

** justinh still doesn't see the point in HD anyway **

[14:42:32]

justinh:

nah the receiver was only SD

[14:42:40]

Seeker`:

justinh: because you aren't relying on clunky upscalers?

[14:42:57]

justinh:

if modern screens weren't so appalling... ;-)

[14:43:11]

Seeker`:

appalling in what way?

[14:43:21]

justinh:

appalling in the way they look so crap

[14:43:47]

peterpops (peterpops!~peter@90-229-139-51-no195.tbcn.telia.com) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[14:43:47]

Seeker`:

it wouldnt change the fact that SD resolutions blown up don't look good

[14:43:50]

justinh:

while at the same time make any video artifacts immediately much more noticable

[14:43:54]

justinh:

true

[14:43:59]

peterpops (peterpops!~peter@90-229-139-51-no195.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:44:00]

Seeker`:

and upscaled content doesn't look vastly better

[14:44:07]

justinh:

but who really needs big TVs anyway>

[14:44:19]

justinh:

home cinema stuff maybe...

[14:44:42]

** Seeker` has a 42" plasma, much prefers it to the 15" TFT he was using for 2 years at uni **

[14:45:15]

Seeker`:

you don't have to squint to see it from the other side of the room for one :P

[14:46:00]

justinh:

the other side of the room? LOL

[14:46:13]

justinh:

when I *can* be bothered to watch telly it's from about 8 feet away

[14:46:36]

Seeker`:

I think my screen is about 9ft away atm

[14:46:44]

justinh:

btw I'm likely to be watching even less TV soon since the new Dr Who episodes have been so bad

[14:47:01]

justinh:

and BBC News' Click is never bloody on anymore

[14:47:08]

Seeker`:

when I was using the 15" TFT we had to have the room arranged in a stupid manner to actually have the picture viewable

[14:47:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh, Ah, if you don't have much (or any?) HD content, then I could see your point...

[14:47:26]

justinh:

J-e-f-f-A: we only have about 6 HD channels anyway

[14:47:29]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh, But if you DO have HD content, there's no comparison... ;-) And SD looks horrible. ;-)

[14:47:39]

justinh:

and the content.. there's not enough to go around those channels yet

[14:47:51]

Seeker`:

actually, the best quality upgrade would be getting rid of interlaced content

[14:48:00]

justinh:

from the HD I've seen it's no upgrade

[14:48:14]

justinh:

it just doesn't look as *bad* as SD on the same size screen

[14:48:33]

justinh:

that doesn't make it *good* or worth putting yourself out to get

[14:48:36]

Seeker`:

justinh: bluray on HD screens looks good

[14:48:46]

** justinh hasn't bought a disc for a very long time **

[14:48:56]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[14:48:59]

Seeker`:

I could imagine that broadcast HD is at a low enough bitrate to be pretty horrible

[14:49:01]

J-e-f-f-A:

It's probably a bit of a 'slow start' as it was in the US – when broadcasters first started transmitting in Digital (thus HD), many of them had very few HD broadcasts, and would 'pillarbox' SD content in the 16:9 frame...

[14:49:24]

justinh:

Seeker`: Sky HD is awful from what I've seen of it

[14:49:24]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:49:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

But over the last couple of years there's been more and more programs in HD, so the pillarboxed content is getting less and less.

[14:49:40]

** Seeker` doesn't have any broadcast HD atm, only blu rays **

[14:49:45]

justinh:

I miss analogue

[14:49:54]

Seeker`:

I'm actually considering a new tv

[14:49:57]

Seeker`:

perhaps a larger one too

[14:50:28]

J-e-f-f-A:

Seeker`, are you in the US?

[14:50:32]

Seeker`:

J-e-f-f-A: no

[14:50:35]

Seeker`:

UK

[14:50:35]

justinh:

I wouldn't buy anything bigger than 32" until the vast majority of TV is made in HD

[14:50:36]

J-e-f-f-A:

ah.

[14:50:55]

Seeker`:

J-e-f-f-A: why?

[14:50:55]

justinh:

er.. I mean the vast majority of TV *shown* is in HD

[14:50:55]

natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[14:51:47]

J-e-f-f-A:

Seeker`, I was going to say, you could get over-the-air HD pretty cheap with a decent antenna, even if you're in a 'fringe' area usually. ;-)

[14:51:53]

justinh:

reminds me.. I still need to get to the flicks to see Super 8

[14:52:08]

Seeker`:

April next year for freeview hd here

[14:52:16]

justinh:

J-e-f-f-A: by all accounts Freeview HD here looks awful

[14:52:21]

justinh:

compared to 'proper' HD

[14:52:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

But freeview isn't free any more, is it?

[14:52:30]

Seeker`:

J-e-f-f-A: it is

[14:52:43]

justinh:

bitrates max out somewhere like 6Mbit/sec for BBC HD

[14:52:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

Seeker`, ah – I thought they were charging for all the 'good' channels...

[14:53:01]

justinh:

J-e-f-f-A: no, freeview is OTA TV

[14:53:22]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh, ouch. I record my stuff with a HD-PVR at 13Mbps (from a cable STB)... looks stunning.

[14:53:38]

justinh:

there's TUTV (top up TV) which is in the terrestrial TV band.. encrippled.. no HD... and all sucky repeats & junk

[14:53:52]

Seeker`:

justinh: if you've got a 1080p TV then you'll need upscaling whether you have a 32" or 50" TV. And the high-end TVs that actually use decent decoders/deinterlacers/upscalers usually start at 42"

[14:54:25]

justinh:

Seeker`: who cares? I'd be using mythtv for all playback duties so er... hardware is pretty irrelevant

[14:55:04]

justinh:

as far as the hardware scalers are concerned I've been totally horrified by the alleged 'great' scaler chips in some sets

[14:55:19]

justinh:

stop guessing what the video is gonna do.. just display it instead

[14:55:25]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[14:55:35]

justinh:

oh wait but you can't do that because the display tech has so many inherent flaws

[14:55:40]

Seeker`:

what will be good is when decent FRC solutions make it in to TVs

[14:55:41]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:55:48]

justinh:

they won't

[14:56:00]

justinh:

there'll always be some bottom dollar option there to use instead

[14:56:06]

Seeker`:

mmm

[14:56:11]

Seeker`:

not convinced by that :P

[14:56:52]

justinh:

yeah but they may one day be as good as the Â£1000 scaler box now.. but at the same time nowhere near as good as the Â£1000 will be by then

[14:57:01]

justinh:

interpolation is all BS anyway

[14:57:14]

Seeker`:

nah, some of it is pretty good

[14:57:29]

justinh:

motion estimation... even the pro stuff gets it badly wrong

[14:57:31]

Seeker`:

There are a bunch of guys sitting at the other end of my office working on FRC btw :P

[14:57:58]

justinh:

it's very unsettling seeing a TV futz up a human face moving across a screen

[14:58:27]

justinh:

we're all gonna miss CRTs

[14:59:09]

Seeker`:

CRTs didn't solve the problem that films are recorded at 24fps, they just blur fast motion

[14:59:30]

justinh:

ok so you can't hang a CRT on a wall above the fireplace but there's a good reason for that. unless your sofa seats are 4 feet off the floor you shouldn't be putting the telly above the hearth :P

[15:00:08]

justinh:

Seeker`: you mean: nobody has solved the problem of movies only being 24FPS STILL :-/

[15:00:24]

Seeker`:

well, the ideal solution is people filming at 120fps or so

[15:00:38]

justinh:

all this shizzle about HD, 3D.. and the framerate is still 24fps or something only juuust too slow

[15:01:01]

simcop2387 (simcop2387!~simcop238@p3m/member/simcop2387) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)

[15:01:08]

justinh:

ooo see that lovely slow pan the director wanted? jerk.. erk... erk... erk...

[15:01:09]

skd5aner:

I like 24p, I just don't like 3:2 pulldown

[15:01:22]

justinh:

and that's *at* the cinema. bleugh

[15:01:33]

justinh:

anyway.. hometime. Yay

[15:01:58]

skd5aner:

why would it jerk at the cinema?

[15:02:22]

skd5aner:

it's filmed in 24fps, and it's played back at 24fps?

[15:02:48]

skd5aner:

you just mean because it's not a min of 30fps (approx. frame rate of the eye)?

[15:03:02]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[15:03:08]

natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:03:14]

Seeker`:

skd5aner: things look smoother the higher the framerate (up to a point)

[15:03:21]

Seeker`:

120fps looks smoother than 60 fps

[15:03:27]

skd5aner:

not to the naked eye it doesn't

[15:03:29]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:03:34]

Seeker`:

skd5aner: yup, it does

[15:03:43]

skd5aner:

they human eye can't detect higher than 30fps

[15:03:47]

Seeker`:

-_-

[15:03:50]

Seeker`:

it can, honestly

[15:04:14]

Seeker`:

I've seen two streams of the same video, one at 60fps, one at 120fps, side by side, on the same monitor. You can see a difference

[15:05:03]

simcop2387 (simcop2387!~simcop238@p3m/member/simcop2387) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:07:30]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[15:07:46]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:11:26]

npm_ is now known as npm

[15:18:11]

quicksilver:

skd5aner: it's a complex and nuanced point, but the 30fps was a speed determined so that 'flicker' would be invisible

[15:18:13]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:18:29]

quicksilver:

specifically the sharp change of frame as one frame of film moves down and the next one moves in.

[15:18:48]

quicksilver:

it doesn't mean the human eye isn't capable of seeing other issues/artefacts at 30fps.

[15:19:09]

quicksilver:

the judder of a very fast moving object is clearly reduced to most observers by a better framerate.

[15:19:27]

quicksilver:

I've heard some smart people in the video world suggest we should jump to 300fps for video.

[15:19:43]

PointyPumper (PointyPumper!~pintlezz@190.244.73.13) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)

[15:19:57]

quicksilver:

(it needn't take up as much more bandwidth as you'd expect, on average, due to the way video compression works)

[15:27:02]

GrahamIRC (GrahamIRC!~GrahamIRC@93-97-162-127.zone5.bethere.co.uk) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:27:53]

PointyPumper (PointyPumper!~pintlezz@190.244.73.13) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:34:15]

dmz (dmz!~dmz@64.203.235.49.dyn-cm-pool-34.pool.hargray.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:35:11]

natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)

[15:42:10]

pmhahn (pmhahn!~pmhahn@port-92-196-102-27.dynamic.qsc.de) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:48:09]

natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:48:57]

FabriceMG (FabriceMG!~MARTIN@217.112.59.207) has left #mythtv-users ()

[15:52:20]

Ryushin (Ryushin!proxy@cl-412.phx-01.us.sixxs.net) has quit (Quit: Client exiting)

[15:56:07]

Gibby (Gibby!~Gibby@204.118.10.244) has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)

[15:56:37]

Gibby (Gibby!~Gibby@204.118.10.244) has joined #mythtv-users

[15:58:18]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[15:59:45]

simcop2387 (simcop2387!~simcop238@p3m/member/simcop2387) has quit (Excess Flood)

[16:00:00]

Dave123 (Dave123!~dave@cpe-74-74-200-106.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:00:30]

hashbang (hashbang!~isajb@2001:630:e4:1212:230:48ff:febf:1392) has left #mythtv-users ()

[16:02:33]

simcop2387 (simcop2387!~simcop238@p3m/member/simcop2387) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:11:19]

jpabq_ (jpabq_!~jpabq@71-38-209-122.albq.qwest.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:11:19]

jpabq_ (jpabq_!~jpabq@71-38-209-122.albq.qwest.net) has quit (Changing host)

[16:11:19]

jpabq_ (jpabq_!~jpabq@mythtv/developer/jpabq) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:13:55]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[16:14:08]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:14:23]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:23:42]

hpeter (hpeter!~hpeter@120-216.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)

[16:26:47]

Goga777 (Goga777!~Goga777@shpd-92-101-151-179.vologda.ru) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:30:22]

SteveGoodey (SteveGoodey!~SteveGood@host86-148-198-135.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:30:48]

SteveGoodey (SteveGoodey!~SteveGood@host86-148-198-135.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) has quit (Client Quit)

[16:33:11]

LedHed (LedHed!~LedHed@static-74-45-162-66.dr01.pasn.ca.frontiernet.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving)

[16:33:45]

FabriceMG (FabriceMG!~fabrice@APoitiers-155-1-7-250.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:35:18]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)

[16:36:44]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[16:37:33]

Goga777 (Goga777!~Goga777@shpd-92-101-151-179.vologda.ru) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[16:51:02]

hpeter (hpeter!~hpeter@178-83-235-5.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has joined #mythtv-users

[17:17:37]

kormoc_afk (kormoc_afk!~kormoc@mythtv/developer/kormoc) has joined #mythtv-users

[17:17:37]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc_afk

[17:17:47]

kormoc_afk is now known as kormoc

[17:20:55]

wagnerrp:

apparently Syndicate is getting restarted as a first person shooter

[17:46:23]

MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@2a00:16a0::a800:c1ff:fe40:f4b2) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[17:48:30]

LedHed (LedHed!~LedHed@static-74-45-162-66.dr01.pasn.ca.frontiernet.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[17:49:51]

MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@2a00:16a0::a800:c1ff:fe40:f4b2) has joined #mythtv-users

[17:59:10]

andreax (andreax!~andreaz@p57B94C99.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[18:01:56]

MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@2a00:16a0::a800:c1ff:fe40:f4b2) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[18:02:05]

GlemSom (GlemSom!~glemsom@0x5da34bca.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1105.sdnqu1.customer.tele.dk) has joined #mythtv-users

[18:03:47]

mycosys (mycosys!~mycosys@unaffiliated/mycosys) has joined #mythtv-users

[18:06:40]

mycosys (mycosys!~mycosys@unaffiliated/mycosys) has left #mythtv-users ()

[18:07:15]

Scopeuk-AFK is now known as Scopeuk

[18:37:21]

Dave123-road (Dave123-road!~dave@cpe-74-74-200-106.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[18:55:44]

Dave123-road (Dave123-road!~dave@cpe-74-74-200-106.rochester.res.rr.com) has quit (Quit: Leaving)

[18:56:19]

kabtoffe (kabtoffe!~kabtoffe@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fff4c000-98.dhcp.inet.fi) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[18:56:48]

dewman (dewman!~dewman@68-188-231-61.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[18:57:28]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: WHAT?

[18:57:41]

AndyCap:

that's a crime.

[19:00:20]

dewman (dewman!~dewman@68-188-231-61.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:01:35]

kabtoffe (kabtoffe!~kabtoffe@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fff4c000-98.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:05:22]

natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has quit (Quit: Quit)

[19:07:46]

StevenR (StevenR!~foo@88.97.49.237) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:14:49]

MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@2a00:16a0::a800:c1ff:fe40:f4b2) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:19:24]

MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@2a00:16a0::a800:c1ff:fe40:f4b2) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[19:20:06]

wagnerrp:

AndyCap: i still even play my copy of syndicate from time to time

[19:20:23]

wagnerrp:

of course i dont have to pull my cd off the shelf

[19:20:39]

AndyCap:

heh, I think I have 2 cds

[19:20:39]

wagnerrp:

since it was a time before DRM, and the directory copied from the cd works just as well as the cd itself

[19:20:57]

wagnerrp:

two?

[19:20:59]

AndyCap:

never tried the netbios multiplayer tho, if it works

[19:21:05]

wagnerrp:

syndicate and syndicate wars?

[19:21:09]

AndyCap:

no.

[19:21:28]

wagnerrp:

the american revolt?

[19:21:30]

AndyCap:

(syndicate + syndicate: american revolt) * 2.

[19:21:35]

wagnerrp:

ah

[19:21:38]

AndyCap:

soundblaster bundle

[19:21:58]

wagnerrp:

yeah, mine came on one cd, along with strike commander, wing commander, and ultima 8

[19:22:01]

AndyCap:

syndicate, BASS, grolier, and some other junk

[19:22:03]

wagnerrp:

(soundblaster bundle)

[19:22:17]

wagnerrp:

oh, and seawolf on a separate cd

[19:22:45]

wagnerrp:

and a 4x CD-Rom too!

[19:23:00]

wagnerrp:

that was a great bundle

[19:24:23]

lapion (lapion!~axion@axion.xs4all.nl) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:24]

gregL (gregL!~greg@cpe-74-76-125-87.nycap.res.rr.com) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:24]

knightr (knightr!~knightr@mythtv/developer/knightr) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:24]

earthnative (earthnative!~nemo@ppp118-208-63-59.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:24]

dlblog (dlblog!~dlblog@c-76-127-227-175.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:25]

brfransen (brfransen!~brfransen@216.254.250.47) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:25]

Scopeuk (Scopeuk!~scopeukfr@li187-253.members.linode.com) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:25]

ikonia (ikonia!~irc@unaffiliated/ikonia) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:25]

j-rod (j-rod!~jarod@static-72-93-233-3.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:26]

MaverickTech (MaverickTech!~MaverickT@111.86.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:26]

johnf1911 (johnf1911!~johnf@zioncluster.ca) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:26]

Anduin (Anduin!~awithers@pdpc/supporter/professional/anduin) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:26]

JEDIDIAH__ (JEDIDIAH__!~jedi@cpe-76-185-75-39.tx.res.rr.com) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:27]

sailerboy (sailerboy!sailerboy@ipv61.sailerboy.net) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:27]

jpabq (jpabq!~jpabq@mythtv/developer/jpabq) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:27]

Shadow__X (Shadow__X!~jose@unaffiliated/shadowx/x-411846) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:27]

Technophil (Technophil!~David@203-97-234-182.cable.telstraclear.net) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:27]

keith4 (keith4!~keith@unaffiliated/keith4) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:27]

likwid--_ (likwid--_!likwid@skynet.darpa.org) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:27]

GreyFoxx (GreyFoxx!~greg@mythtv/developer/GreyFoxx) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:24:27]

jpabq_ is now known as jpabq

[19:24:30]

likwid--_ (likwid--_!likwid@skynet.darpa.org) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:31]

j-rod (j-rod!~jarod@static-72-93-233-3.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:31]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v j-rod

[19:24:32]

GreyFoxx (GreyFoxx!~greg@2607:ae00:fff9::1) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:32]

johnf1911 (johnf1911!~johnf@zioncluster.ca) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:33]

ikonia (ikonia!~irc@unaffiliated/ikonia) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:33]

Shadow__X (Shadow__X!~jose@c-68-45-238-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:39]

gregL (gregL!~greg@cpe-74-76-125-87.nycap.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:40]

Scopeuk_ (Scopeuk_!~scopeukfr@li187-253.members.linode.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:43]

lapion (lapion!~axion@axion.xs4all.nl) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:51]

MaverickTech (MaverickTech!~MaverickT@111.86.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:55]

earthnative (earthnative!~nemo@ppp118-208-63-59.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:56]

knightr (knightr!~knightr@69-165-170-178.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:59]

JEDIDIAH__ (JEDIDIAH__!~jedi@cpe-76-185-75-39.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:59]

knightr (knightr!~knightr@69-165-170-178.dsl.teksavvy.com) has quit (Changing host)

[19:25:00]

knightr (knightr!~knightr@mythtv/developer/knightr) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:25:01]

abqjp (abqjp!~jpabq@174-28-167-122.albq.qwest.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:25:04]

keith4 (keith4!~keith@unaffiliated/keith4) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:25:11]

Technophil (Technophil!~David@203-97-234-182.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:25:40]

dlblog (dlblog!~dlblog@c-76-127-227-175.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:26:13]

sailerboy (sailerboy!sailerboy@ipv61.sailerboy.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:34:28]

Anduin (Anduin!~awithers@pdpc/supporter/professional/anduin) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:34:28]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Anduin

[19:34:32]

sailerboy (sailerboy!sailerboy@ipv61.sailerboy.net) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:34:33]

kormoc (kormoc!~kormoc@mythtv/developer/kormoc) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:34:33]

pheld (pheld!~heldal@cl-5.osl-01.no.sixxs.net) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:34:33]

straterra (straterra!~straterra@fuhell.com) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:34:33]

Floppe (Floppe!muppet@crew.cluster-lan.org) has quit (*.net *.split)

[19:34:38]

Floppe (Floppe!muppet@crew.cluster-lan.org) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:35:02]

pheld (pheld!~heldal@cl-5.osl-01.no.sixxs.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:36:40]

kormoc (kormoc!~kormoc@mythtv/developer/kormoc) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:36:40]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

[19:39:12]

sailerboy (sailerboy!sailerboy@ipv61.sailerboy.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:39:38]

straterra (straterra!~straterra@fuhell.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:42:21]

hpeter_ (hpeter_!~hpeter@178-83-233-211.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:43:49]

bumblebeebat (bumblebeebat!~sean@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-57-105.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[19:45:22]

hpeter (hpeter!~hpeter@178-83-235-5.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)

[19:45:22]

hpeter_ is now known as hpeter

[19:46:08]

MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@2a00:16a0::a800:c1ff:fe40:f4b2) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:49:45]

FabriceMG:

wagnerrp, I think I have a problem with thetvdb.com script

[19:49:54]

FabriceMG:

the backend launch :

[19:50:19]

FabriceMG:

[19:50:40]

FabriceMG:

but the good command is:

[19:50:55]

FabriceMG:

[19:54:43]

MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@2a00:16a0::a800:c1ff:fe40:f4b2) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[19:58:32]

Scopeuk_ is now known as Scopeuk-AFK

[20:04:15]

wagnerrp:

actually, the good command is neither

[20:04:53]

wagnerrp:

[20:06:36]

wagnerrp:

the grabber is not run through the shell

[20:06:50]

wagnerrp:

it is run directly using the execv() call

[20:07:03]

wagnerrp:

so we dont have to mess with quoting

[20:08:59]

kormoc is now known as kormoc_afk

[20:09:08]

FabriceMG:

ok, I have run mythmetadatalookup in console, and it's work, TheTVdb.com is again down yesterday

[20:10:05]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[20:10:32]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[20:21:57]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[20:22:02]

kugel_:

A question about setting alsa sound defaults: After I set the device and unmute channels with alsamixer, I can use the command "speaker-test -c 6 -D plughw:1,9" and hear output in all the 5.1 speakers. But the archlinux instructions for setting defaults seem confusing (or out-of-date).

[20:22:18]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[20:22:37]

kugel_:

I'm not sure this is all of my problems, but getting the default sound set right would be a good first step.

[20:25:02]

FabriceMG (FabriceMG!~fabrice@APoitiers-155-1-7-250.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)

[20:32:12]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has joined #mythtv-users

[20:32:20]

simcop2387 (simcop2387!~simcop238@p3m/member/simcop2387) has quit (Excess Flood)

[20:34:06]

simcop2387 (simcop2387!~simcop238@p3m/member/simcop2387) has joined #mythtv-users

[20:38:41]

zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[20:41:21]

GlemSom (GlemSom!~glemsom@0x5da34bca.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1105.sdnqu1.customer.tele.dk) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[20:47:46]

pmhahn (pmhahn!~pmhahn@port-92-196-102-27.dynamic.qsc.de) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)

[20:56:48]

Dave123 (Dave123!~dave@cpe-74-74-200-106.rochester.res.rr.com) has quit (Quit: Leaving)

[21:00:31]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[21:00:58]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:09:33]

Dave123 (Dave123!~dave@cpe-74-74-200-106.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:12:01]

j-rod is now known as j-rod|afk

[21:12:03]

NickG365:

Does anyone know where I can find an SQL dump of the latest database schema? I keep getting an error when MythTV tries to upgrade it during a fresh backend setup.

[21:12:43]

wagnerrp:

can we see the errors?

[21:13:04]

NickG365:

Sure, 1 sec

[21:13:44]

andreax1 (andreax1!~andreaz@p57B95A05.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:13:53]

andreax (andreax!~andreaz@p57B94C99.dip.t-dialin.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)

[21:15:58]

NickG365:

http://pastebin.com/cfXuGw4c

[21:16:00]

NickG365:

2011-09–12 17:16:18.520 DB Error (Performing database upgrade): Query was: ALTER TABLE settings MODIFY COLUMN data VARCHAR(16000) NOT NULL d efault '';

[21:16:32]

wagnerrp:

that space was actually in the error? or is that the result of an endline in the terminal?

[21:16:50]

westlock3 (westlock3!~mythtv@24.65.240.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[21:16:54]

NickG365:

Right, that's a newline there

[21:17:24]

wagnerrp:

does it actually give the error? or just that there was an error?

[21:18:06]

NickG365:

"Data truncated for column 'data' at row 1"

[21:18:31]

wagnerrp:

data... truncated???

[21:18:44]

wagnerrp:

what could you possibly have in there that is more than 16000 characters long?

[21:18:56]

NickG365:

Nothing at all, it's a fresh install =X

[21:19:55]

NickG365:

And looking at it in SQLyog, the largest is only 19 bytes for that column.

[21:20:28]

NickG365:

But the datatype is text right now

[21:21:09]

wagnerrp:

probably something in the default mysql setup for your distro

[21:21:19]

wagnerrp:

that tells it to be extra cautious and prevent such changes

[21:21:23]

wagnerrp:

what distro?

[21:21:35]

NickG365:

Er, Windows =X

[21:22:02]

wagnerrp:

er, mythtv doesnt run on windows

[21:22:17]

wagnerrp:

you /can/ run the frontend on windows, but there is no support for the backend

[21:22:27]

wagnerrp:

you need a linux backend somewhere to record stuff

[21:23:01]

wagnerrp:

or a BSD or OSX backend if you know what youre doing and can live with limited driver support

[21:23:03]

NickG365:

Actually, I just ran that query manually and it seemed to work. Probably should've tried that a while back.

[21:23:30]

Shadow__X (Shadow__X!~jose@c-68-45-238-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has quit (Changing host)

[21:23:30]

Shadow__X (Shadow__X!~jose@unaffiliated/shadowx/x-411846) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:23:31]

lyricnz (lyricnz!~simonrobe@ppp118-209-14-159.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[21:23:39]

wagnerrp:

your windows machine should never be running updates on the primary schema

[21:23:49]

wagnerrp:

since only the master backend is supposed to do such things

[21:25:32]

NickG365:

Yeah, I'll probably install Mythbuntu or the like on a virtual machine later on with a fresh database, just wanted to test this out right now. Might end up with more Linux machines than Windows by the end of the week with the way Windows Media Center has been treating me. =S Thanks for your help and suggestions though.

[21:25:59]

wagnerrp:

mythbuntu on a virtual machine? what for?

[21:26:13]

wagnerrp:

the VM wont have any access to hardware, meaning it wont be able to record anything

[21:26:30]

NickG365:

Oh, the tuner's an HDHomeRun Prime

[21:26:51]

wagnerrp:

ah, that could work, but its still advisable not to run mythtv under a VM

[21:27:06]

wagnerrp:

what provider?

[21:27:27]

wagnerrp:

eew... roadrunner

[21:27:32]

NickG365:

Heh, yeah

[21:27:48]

wagnerrp:

yeah, a HDHR Prime wont do much good in anything other than WMC

[21:28:04]

wagnerrp:

since time warner marks nearly everything as copy protected

[21:28:08]

NickG365:

Yes, the copy once flag has been very fun

[21:28:19]

wagnerrp:

that may well be why youre having such trouble with WMC

[21:28:22]

NickG365:

Figured that might be an issue

[21:28:44]

wagnerrp:

since mythtv is not a license cablecard application, we can only access those channels marked copy freely

[21:29:02]

wagnerrp:

which if reports are to be believed, will only be broadcast channels

[21:29:27]

NickG365:

Yeah, that's about right from what I've tried so far.

[21:30:21]

wagnerrp:

feel free to complain to time warner and be ignored

[21:30:28]

squidly (squidly!~squidly@HoodLUG/member/squidly) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)

[21:30:41]

wagnerrp:

maybe if enough people complain, theyll start ignoring you with more vigor

[21:30:42]

squidly (squidly!~squidly@HoodLUG/member/squidly) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:31:23]

NickG365:

Heh, sounds about right. Add this to my list of complaints about the tech not bringing (or knowing what a) Tuning Adapter is, and their slow-as-heck DOCSIS 3.0 rollout.

[21:32:17]

Gibby (Gibby!~Gibby@204.118.10.244) has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)

[21:32:47]

Gibby (Gibby!~Gibby@204.118.10.244) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:37:12]

kth (kth!~kth@unaffiliated/kth) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)

[21:40:39]

brfransen (brfransen!~brfransen@216.254.250.47) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:42:09]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~jos180@109.224.135.180) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:42:46]

hpeter (hpeter!~hpeter@178-83-233-211.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has quit (Quit: hpeter)

[21:44:26]

GrahamIRC (GrahamIRC!~GrahamIRC@93-97-162-127.zone5.bethere.co.uk) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[21:48:40]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~jos180@109.224.135.180) has quit (Quit: Leaving)

[21:49:52]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~jason@109.224.135.180) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:50:03]

jya (jya!~jyavenard@mythtv/developer/jya) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[21:50:26]

JEDIDIAH__:

It sounds like TWC isn't much better with WMC than it is with MythTV.

[21:52:11]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~jason@109.224.135.180) has quit (Client Quit)

[21:52:16]

jya (jya!~jyavenard@60-242-40-141.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:52:16]

jya (jya!~jyavenard@mythtv/developer/jya) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:52:16]

jya (jya!~jyavenard@60-242-40-141.static.tpgi.com.au) has quit (Changing host)

[21:55:15]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~jos180@109.224.135.180) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:58:15]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~jos180@109.224.135.180) has quit (Client Quit)

[22:01:11]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~opera@109.224.135.180) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:02:37]

Technophil1 (Technophil1!~David@203-97-234-182.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:04:08]

Technophil (Technophil!~David@203-97-234-182.cable.telstraclear.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)

[22:06:25]

MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@2a00:16a0::a800:c1ff:fe40:f4b2) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:06:40]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~opera@109.224.135.180) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[22:07:03]

natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:08:06]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~opera@109.224.135.180) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:14:22]

St0ned|TP (St0ned|TP!~d0netsFN@blea.ch) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:17:59]

GrahamIRC (GrahamIRC!~GrahamIRC@93-97-162-128.zone5.bethere.co.uk) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:22:25]

aloril (aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[22:29:23]

shipit (shipit!~shipit@c-67-180-23-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:36:11]

shipit (shipit!~shipit@c-67-180-23-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[22:38:23]

hoolio (hoolio!~hoolio@eth235.tas.adsl.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:38:42]

aloril (aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #mythtv-users

[22:46:16]

sphery:

great milwaukee race? wondering if some user's PC got a virus that's trying to spread itself by sending out e-mails to the whole contact list

[22:47:42]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[22:48:28]

sphery:

[mythtv-users] (no subject) from raptor jr

[22:48:33]

MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@2a00:16a0::a800:c1ff:fe40:f4b2) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[22:48:40]

sphery:

just has a link and nothing else

[22:49:49]

wagnerrp:

funky

[22:50:04]

sphery:

went to both -users and -dev lists

[22:50:18]

sphery:

I was afraid to visit the link :)

[22:50:39]

wagnerrp:

im betting that les noland guy has a storage group entry with the path ""

[22:50:50]

sphery:

wagnerrp: btw, can you think of any reason at all why a user running at -v general wouldn't see a VB_GENERAL message in backend logs (on 0.24-fixes)?

[22:51:04]

wagnerrp:

so at some point, the scheduler decides to use it

[22:51:07]

wagnerrp:

and fails

[22:51:09]

wagnerrp:

nope

[22:51:24]

sphery:

I can't figure out why Alex Butcher isn't getting those messages

[22:51:49]

sphery:

I'm thinking maybe he's not logging where he thinks he's logging, so he's seeing (grep'ing) old logs or something?

[22:51:57]

wagnerrp:

which ones?

[22:52:41]

sphery:

agreed on Les--I'm 99% positive it's SG misconfiguration, and I figured we'd see more with the -v file,extra logs (but I assumed we'd eventually need to also request the SG table dump)

[22:53:03]

wagnerrp:

ah, the "what tuner" stuff

[22:53:35]

sphery:

the started recording messages for Alex... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/491232#491232

[22:53:52]

wagnerrp:

right

[22:53:53]

wagnerrp:

found it

[22:54:06]

sphery:

yeah, sorry--took me too long to find the link, so you found it yourself :)

[22:54:46]

sphery:

as it's a scheduler message (in scheduler.cpp), I can't see card type being relevant

[22:55:28]

sphery:

in -fixes, it's programs/mythbackend/scheduler.cpp +2172

[22:58:01]

russell5 (russell5!~russell5@pool-173-48-60-219.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[22:58:42]

sphery:

he should see both the updating status and started recording messages... anyway, has to be something very out of the ordinary happening--like maybe a filter before writing the log file or something

[22:59:00]

sphery:

(maybe he's trying to ignore some of the libav* errors or whatever)

[23:00:27]

sphery:

wagnerrp: anyway, regarding Les's ticket, I have to admit he may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. That was my first of what I hope to be many "No more Mr Nice Guy" ticket closures leading to a change from the "guilty until proven innocent" approach we've been taking with tickets to the "innocent until proven guilty"

[23:01:12]

sphery:

I.e. we don't need to keep a bug report in the system for 4+ years--making the user think they've provided sufficient information, etc.--only to close it eventually as "could not reproduce"

[23:02:19]

sphery:

So I'd rather we just close them--and make the user have to find/prove the bug, so we can actually fix it

[23:02:44]

sphery:

besides, not everyone is willing to go this far testing before closing CNR (possibly NSFW): http://xkcd.com/583/

[23:04:41]

kitch8518 (kitch8518!~opera@109.224.135.180) has left #mythtv-users ()

[23:06:37]

Muzer (Muzer!~muzer@cpc3-ando6-2-0-cust86.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)

[23:08:32]

Muzer (Muzer!~muzer@cpc3-ando6-2-0-cust86.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[23:08:58]

sphery:

wagnerrp: btw, did you send an e-mail to Geoff D asking him to make a ticket to go with his pull request? If not, I'll send one, now

[23:11:16]

sphery:

nvm... sending it, anyway

[23:13:09]

natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[23:17:33]

quentusrex_ (quentusrex_!~quentusre@freeswitch/developer/quentusrex) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

[23:20:07]

zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has joined #mythtv-users

[23:24:48]

zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[23:32:38]

Dave123-road (Dave123-road!~dave@cpe-74-74-200-106.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[23:40:09]

BILL_ (BILL_!42a8fd3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.168.253.60) has joined #mythtv-users

[23:41:11]

k-man:

i've been trying for the last week to compile master on OSX Lion – mostly I have problems getting qt to compile. I've been trying to do it using the osx packager script. anyone having any success with it?

[23:42:01]

k-man:

there are a few minor style issues with the perl script – would patches to fix those be of interest?

[23:42:23]

k-man:

for instance calling subs with the &subname syntax is depricated

[23:43:36]

BILL_ (BILL_!42a8fd3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.168.253.60) has quit (Client Quit)

[23:45:26]

russell5 (russell5!~russell5@pool-173-48-60-219.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[23:47:43]

fleers (fleers!~fleers@cpe-76-93-149-124.san.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[23:48:06]

kormoc_afk is now known as kormoc

[23:58:20]

tomimo (tomimo!~kurre@xdsl-83-150-88-111.nebulazone.fi) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)

[23:58:23]

kurre2 (kurre2!~tomimo@xdsl-83-150-88-111.nebulazone.fi) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Current users (157):