Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, August 16th, 2011, 00:48 UTC

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k-man:

morning all

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[00:59:36]

cesman:

is git down at the moment?

[01:00:22]

wagnerrp:

seems so

[01:01:07]

wagnerrp:

http://www.downforeveryoneelseorjustme.com/github.com

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[01:07:15]

cesman:

wagnerrp: thanks

[01:08:45]

sphery:

also http://status.github.com/ seems to be a different host

[01:08:53]

sphery:

We appear to be having routing issues at the moment, we're investigating.

[01:08:55]

wagnerrp:

beirdo: didnt you add a trigger for that a while back?

[01:09:08]

cesman:

sphery: thanks

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[01:13:56]

sphery:

wagnerrp: according to /q MythLogBot url #mythtv-users – list , it would be !url down

[01:14:28]

sphery:

!url down github.com

[01:14:28]

MythLogBot:

down: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/github%2Ecom

[01:15:19]

sphery:

oh, and it seems it's back up (for me and dfeojm, too :)

[01:27:09]

k-man:

in the past I have found sites like dfeojm a bit dodgey. I forget which site was down at the time, but it was down for me, but one site like dfeojm reported it was up but another reported it was down

[01:29:39]

wagnerrp:

was it down completely, or did it return an error?

[01:29:53]

wagnerrp:

or did it connect and just sit there processing?

[01:32:22]

cesman:

wagnerrp: it is up now. got a 403

[01:33:05]

wagnerrp:

i mean when the site was down, but dfeojm reported up

[01:34:47]

cesman:

verizon couldn't find dfeojm

[01:35:09]

cesman:

but when I clicked the link in the page they displayed it worked

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wagnerrp:

sphery: do you know if QList::replace plays nicely with iterators?

[01:46:36]

Beirdo:

heh

[01:47:02]

Beirdo:

OK, have replacement frontend hardware.

[01:47:15]

Beirdo:

now to get it actually running

[01:48:56]

sphery:

wagnerrp: not sure... I think it's ok as long as you're not using const_iterators

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[01:52:33]

sphery:

Beirdo: heh, I should really put together my replacement backend hardware... the hardware to replace my system that's getting mce's

[01:56:05]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:56:16]

Beirdo:

I had a "MCE"... melt carpet error

[01:57:00]

sphery:

ooh, that's worse than mine... I still haven't noticed any effect from mine--which is much of the reason I haven't yet set up the new system

[01:57:37]

Beirdo:

yeah, the power supply died.

[01:57:46]

Beirdo:

and it was very very very hot

[01:58:54]

sphery:

heh, yeah, power supplies tend to go out with a flair--loud, hot, smelly, or some combination

[01:59:17]

Beirdo:

yeah, I was commenting to myself that some idiot was burning garbage

[01:59:47]

Beirdo:

then about half hour later, my playback abruptly stopped with "Please check signal" on the TV.

[02:00:16]

sphery:

heh

[02:00:35]

sphery:

I lost a PSU, but mine smelled like cooking food

[02:00:46]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: this command line parser is getting pretty messy, but i honestly dont know a better way to handle it

[02:00:55]

sphery:

so either ours had very different smells, or your tastes differ from mine

[02:01:14]

wagnerrp:

i moved the storage of options and results into a single class

[02:01:29]

Beirdo:

I'm wondering how much of the smell was the PSU, and how much was the carpet under it getting cooked

[02:01:44]

sphery:

ah, yeah, that would smell bad

[02:01:59]

wagnerrp:

the add() commands now return the instance of that class, and you can SetChildOf()/ParentOf()/Requires()/Blocks()

[02:02:02]

wagnerrp:

each taking a qstring

[02:02:45]

wagnerrp:

after parsing, all of those names are reconciled against the list of arguments

[02:03:15]

wagnerrp:

and then the individual values check their cross dependencies to make sure they have been fulfilled

[02:03:27]

wagnerrp:

its just that reconciling step is a mess

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[02:42:48]

Soul_keeper:

why do tv's have aspect ratios 4:3 16:9 .... isn't a camera lense round ? wouldn't 1:1 be the native aspect ratio ?

[02:43:00]

[R]:

lol

[02:43:50]

Soul_keeper:

just completely beyond me, perhaps I should chaulk it up to "magic"

[02:44:01]

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[02:47:20]

mycosys:

cos we chose what we wanted to see on screen, and the shape of the film (round would have been very inefficient) or sensor

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[02:47:42]

mycosys:

early CRTs WERE round – we didnt like em

[02:49:06]

Soul_keeper:

so the lense would shoot at a 1:1 and they just cut off the extra border region to size to 16:9 or the desired aspect ?

[02:49:14]

wagnerrp:

Soul_keeper: what aspect ratio are your eyes?

[02:49:48]

Soul_keeper:

3 dimensional aspect :)

[02:50:18]

wagnerrp:

you can only see around 130–140 degrees vertically, but you can see around 200 degrees horizontally

[02:50:28]

wagnerrp:

widescreen actually is "natural" for us

[02:51:11]

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[02:52:01]

Soul_keeper:

that makes sense, I was just wonder how the camera lenses capture. Likely off topic anyways

[02:52:17]

Soul_keeper:

thanks

[02:52:19]

wagnerrp:

the lens is round, the capture chip is not

[02:52:41]

wagnerrp:

its much easier to manufacture a square chip than a round one

[02:52:48]

wagnerrp:

both for capture and display

[02:53:00]

wagnerrp:

CRTs are a bit different

[02:53:14]

wagnerrp:

since they have a single point of emission, and are guided by magnets

[02:53:25]

[R]:

f'in magnets... how do they work?

[02:53:26]

wagnerrp:

so for them, a circular display does make more sense

[02:53:39]

wagnerrp:

and in fact, the earlier ones tended to be circular

[02:54:17]

Soul_keeper:

ok :)

[02:54:41]

wagnerrp:

[R]: i know that has something to do with ICP, and they said it in a song or music video

[02:54:46]

wagnerrp:

but i really dont get that meme

[02:55:25]

[R]:

yeah, its from their "miracles" song

[02:56:22]

wagnerrp:

how is that comment supposed to be taken in the song?

[02:56:33]

wagnerrp:

i mean, why are they even singing about magnets?

[02:56:46]

[R]:

they are talking about miracles

[02:56:50]

[R]:

and they think magnets are miracles

[02:58:06]

wagnerrp:

as in, not some base force? not something that can be explained by science?

[02:58:11]

wagnerrp:

magnets are magic?

[02:58:33]

[R]:

yeah

[02:58:35]

[R]:

thats it

[02:58:40]

[R]:

its an insane song

[02:59:27]

wagnerrp:

so ICP is just retarded

[02:59:36]

wagnerrp:

well thats not any new information

[02:59:38]

[R]:

pretty much

[03:00:44]

wagnerrp:

they came to my town once, played a few blocks from my apartment at a venue across the street from the bar i was talking to

[03:00:53]

wagnerrp:

i decided to walk home instead

[03:01:03]

wagnerrp:

the people standing in line outside were f'd up

[03:01:20]

wagnerrp:

youve got to put a whole lot of gone between you and freaks like that

[03:01:29]

wagnerrp:

the bar was insufficient

[03:01:31]

[R]:

lol

[03:01:35]

wagnerrp:

s/talking/walking/

[03:02:51]

wagnerrp:

i mean sure, you had the obvious teenage dorks in black pants, t-shirts, and clown paint

[03:03:07]

wagnerrp:

then you had the older, more disturbed followers in black pants, t-shirts, and clown paint

[03:03:09]

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[03:03:44]

wagnerrp:

but when leatherface stepped out of an indiscreet blue utility van, thats when i drew the line

[03:13:56]

k-man:

wagnerrp, iirc, the http server was down but it replied to pings

[03:20:30]

wagnerrp:

hahahahahaha

[03:20:34]

wagnerrp:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[03:21:25]

wagnerrp:

so righthaven sues some forum poster for quoting an article

[03:21:53]

wagnerrp:

forum poster defends, just decides that since righthaven doesnt actually own the copyright, they dont have the right to sue, and throws the case out

[03:22:07]

wagnerrp:

forum poster's lawyers sue for expenses

[03:22:43]

wagnerrp:

righthaven claims that since they didnt have the right to file suit in the first place, the suit was so frivolous that the court doesnt have the jurisdiction to award defense fees

[03:23:15]

mycosys:

wtf

[03:24:09]

wagnerrp:

seems this is the second time the defendant has won legal fees

[03:24:29]

wagnerrp:

the first time, righthaven sent the check to the wrong address

[03:35:57]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[03:37:21]

Beirdo:

I think I'll use the 3.5" drives in this box rather than the old 2.5" ones

[03:37:29]

Beirdo:

gonna be a re-mirror-fest

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[03:58:12]

Beirdo:

argh

[03:58:33]

Beirdo:

/dev/sda6 not large enough to join array

[03:58:41]

Beirdo:

short by... 6 blocks

[03:58:44]

Beirdo:

BITE ME

[04:00:04]

Beirdo:

and.... looks like the Antec LCD does power off the cable that vampires at the mobo

[04:00:08]

Beirdo:

wonderful

[04:01:42]

wagnerrp:

fancy

[04:02:18]

mycosys:

is the point of that cable Beirdo

[04:02:18]

wagnerrp:

the command line parser help printout now obeys terminal width

[04:02:54]

Beirdo:

they could and should use USB power, or a molex

[04:03:07]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: how do you get terminal width?

[04:03:34]

Beirdo:

easiest way I know how is with ncurses, and I hope you didn't use that :)

[04:04:31]

mycosys:

as i said Beirdo they use that cable so they can control the power on the system

[04:04:55]

Beirdo:

as you didn't say

[04:05:17]

Beirdo:

and besides, they use that so they can bypass the power switch, yes

[04:05:34]

Beirdo:

but I'm not using that as there's no way to hook that part up

[04:07:54]

Beirdo:

this case's power switch comes in on a custom ribbon cable (gotta love Dell)

[04:08:54]

Beirdo:

so I'll get my disks all busily remirroring, then I'll go put the stupid vampire cable in

[04:09:44]

Beirdo:

but that means resizing a filesystem... fun times

[04:23:31]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I hardcoded the help width to wrap at 80ish, did you find a way to get actual width better?

[04:26:30]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: yeah, capt'm found an example of how to discover that a few days ago

[04:27:12]

wagnerrp:

TIOCGWINSZ

[04:29:48]

wagnerrp:

it pulls as each item prints out, so we could handle someone resizing the window in flight if we so cared

[04:37:29]

Beirdo:

Hmm, OK, that's an ioctl?

[04:37:35]

wagnerrp:

aye

[04:37:46]

Beirdo:

ran against the tty, I would assume

[04:37:52]

Beirdo:

cool, that should work

[04:38:08]

Beirdo:

pretty sure that's what ncurses uses

[04:38:14]

wagnerrp:

probably

[04:38:25]

wagnerrp:

if it throws an error, we drop back to a width of 79

[04:38:35]

Beirdo:

and if we want to get fancy... poll it once, then redo it on SIGWINCH

[04:38:48]

wagnerrp:

sigwinch?

[04:39:05]

Beirdo:

yes

[04:39:09]

wagnerrp:

well you print it once, and terminate

[04:39:18]

Beirdo:

that's the signal you receive when the window is resized

[04:39:18]

wagnerrp:

its not like we keep it open just so we can resize the help printout

[04:39:25]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[04:39:30]

Beirdo:

duh, right

[04:39:43]

** wagnerrp slaps Beirdo around a bit **

[04:39:58]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:42:52]

Beirdo:

ummmm what the....

[04:43:02]

Beirdo:

I resized /dev/md2

[04:43:10]

Beirdo:

well, the filesystem

[04:43:22]

Beirdo:

then the partition, then md2

[04:43:30]

Beirdo:

now it says it's not ext4?!

[04:44:15]

wagnerrp:

whoops

[04:44:45]

wagnerrp:

the parental dependency check faults out if an option has no parents

[04:45:00]

wagnerrp:

since it never found a parent that was given

[04:46:27]

Beirdo:

good thing that was /opt (aka mythtv install/logs)

[04:47:33]

Beirdo:

mkfs it is

[04:49:13]

wagnerrp:

there we go, fixed

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[05:01:01]

k-man:

why do some people need a script to update their channels in their HDHR? (as per the email on the users list)

[05:01:23]

wagnerrp:

the world may never know

[05:01:35]

k-man:

i've never needed something like that

[05:01:51]

k-man:

I find the stuff that happens on the mailing list is often strange and bizzare

[05:02:16]

wagnerrp:

i wrote one way way back when i first got mine

[05:02:25]

wagnerrp:

and my cable company was frequently reordering stuff

[05:02:35]

k-man:

oh, I see

[05:02:38]

wagnerrp:

but that was as much to notify me of changes so i can fix things

[05:02:41]

k-man:

do cable companies reorder stuff?

[05:02:46]

wagnerrp:

as to operate as an actual scanner

[05:03:00]

wagnerrp:

not as far as their desired users would know

[05:03:09]

wagnerrp:

their own cable boxes maintain a translation table

[05:03:27]

wagnerrp:

but we dont have access to that table to map digital channels to linear numbers

[05:11:51]

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[05:24:05]

k-man:

oh, I see

[05:43:24]

k-man:

do some TVs do skype these days?

[05:43:50]

k-man:

ie, you can use the TV to communicate via skype without having a PC in the middle?

[05:44:14]

wagnerrp:

do some tvs have cameras these days?

[05:45:28]

[R]:

what does "Guest Relations Specialist at PF Changs" mean?

[05:45:48]

wagnerrp:

hostess

[05:45:58]

[R]:

lol

[05:49:43]

k-man:

wagnerrp, I think they might, or they have some kind of port for plugging in a camera

[05:51:02]

k-man:

wagnerrp, http://www.jbhifionline.com.au/plasma-lcd-tvs . . . ia-tv/652171

[05:51:10]

k-man:

bloody expensive for a camera and mike

[05:51:17]

k-man:

err.. mic, I mean

[05:52:40]

wagnerrp:

well at least its an array mic

[05:52:48]

wagnerrp:

but that camera cant be worth much

[05:53:13]

k-man:

i've never been much impressed with skypes video ability

[05:53:25]

wagnerrp:

seems its 720p

[05:53:29]

k-man:

it always seems very low res and very jumpy to me

[05:54:01]

k-man:

it's annoying that it is yet another thing to have hanging off your TV

[05:54:06]

wagnerrp:

1280x720p22, which is likely limited due to USB throughput

[05:54:14]

k-man:

ah yeah

[05:54:17]

wagnerrp:

meaning its raw frames its pumping into your tv

[05:55:12]

wagnerrp:

well 1280x720p22 RGB is almost exactly the theoretical throughput of USB

[05:55:24]

wagnerrp:

but youre never actually going to achieve that

[05:58:58]

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[05:59:23]

k-man:

I have decided I'll buy a TV when you can get a 55" full hd for <= AU$1000

[06:00:12]

wagnerrp:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Westinghouse+-+60 . . . 218317000553

[06:00:33]

k-man:

wagnerrp, AUD

[06:00:43]

k-man:

is westinghouse any good?

[06:00:45]

k-man:

AUD in AU

[06:00:50]

wagnerrp:

it was $800, seems the price went up when they went out of stock

[06:01:01]

k-man:

despite the AUD >= USD, we get ripped off here

[06:01:03]

wagnerrp:

meh... i dont know who makes them now

[06:01:14]

wagnerrp:

westinghouse went bankrupt a few years ago

[06:01:26]

wagnerrp:

someone else must have bought the name

[06:01:53]

[R]:

http://www.tanga.com/products/im-not-slacking . . . ling-t-shirt

[06:02:12]

[R]:

i need a hipster tshirt like that

[06:02:18]

wagnerrp:

http://xkcd.com/303/

[06:02:49]

[R]:

this one guy at my work always jokes that i always say im compiling

[06:03:26]

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[06:03:30]

Beirdo:

OK, now to get this stupid computer to like life again

[06:03:58]

[R]:

$23

[06:04:00]

[R]:

are they insane!?

[06:04:12]

wagnerrp:

no, theyre selling to hipsters

[06:05:53]

[R]:

but 23 for a tshirt?

[06:06:46]

[R]:

i got the coolest thing the other day

[06:06:53]

[R]:

its a shirt made out of tshirt material

[06:06:55]

[R]:

but it has a colar

[06:07:34]

wagnerrp:

thats not a collar

[06:07:56]

wagnerrp:

thats a slightly thicker strip of material to prevent fraying

[06:08:18]

wagnerrp:

this says $6 for a t-shirt

[06:09:45]

[R]:

no

[06:09:47]

[R]:

its a real collar

[06:09:52]

[R]:

yeah, but look at the "retail price"

[06:10:21]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but how do you know theyre not on sale more than selling retail?

[06:10:37]

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[06:10:45]

[R]:

lol

[06:12:25]

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[06:14:28]

Beirdo:

la la la.. and another lovely reboot

[06:14:45]

Beirdo:

I think I got it all now

[06:15:30]

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[06:15:33]

Beirdo:

time to recompile mythtv, since I blew it away unintentionally

[06:16:09]

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[06:17:30]

Beirdo:

what a pain.

[06:20:44]

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[06:22:21]

[R]:

i need a frontend to directv.pl

[06:22:31]

[R]:

for the console like i could hit the arrows and like m and stuff

[06:22:33]

[R]:

and it would send the keys

[06:23:01]

wagnerrp:

you need curses

[06:23:09]

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[06:23:17]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:23:22]

Beirdo:

enjoy writing it

[06:23:37]

[R]:

yeah, i figured that

[06:23:38]

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[06:23:47]

[R]:

i wrote a curses progrma once

[06:23:49]

Beirdo:

and if you bother, you might as well redo it in C

[06:24:11]

[R]:

i really wish i had a DECA adapter

[06:24:12]

Beirdo:

i.e. don't call a perl program from C just to use the serial port, that would be retarded

[06:24:15]

[R]:

http > serial

[06:25:27]

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[06:29:13]

Beirdo:

YAY

[06:29:40]

Beirdo:

has frontend again

[06:29:59]

Beirdo:

2011-08–15 23:29:48.762869 D PlaybackBox: UpdateUIListItem called with a title unknown to us in m_recordingList "Top Gear"

[06:30:07]

Beirdo:

hmmm, new debug mess

[06:30:24]

Beirdo:

I'm playing back. stop telling me to update the bloody uilist

[06:31:05]

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[06:33:41]

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[06:36:28]

Beirdo:

and it's doing that every 10s

[06:36:31]

Beirdo:

blech

[06:46:30]

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[06:56:12]

wagnerrp:

sphery: for reference, using replace on an item currently in use by an iterator is unsafe

[06:56:17]

wagnerrp:

it may work, it may bus error

[06:58:30]

Beirdo:

eww

[06:58:42]

Beirdo:

well, that's a good thing to know, not too surprising

[06:58:47]

Beirdo:

that's in QList?

[06:58:55]

wagnerrp:

yes

[06:59:39]

Beirdo:

hmmm, I wouldn't think that replace would cause too much issue there

[06:59:48]

Beirdo:

but still, not terribly surprising

[07:00:34]

[R]:

is there any way to fix how the video freezes for like a second or two when watching livetv and it rolls to the next show?

[07:00:44]

Beirdo:

yeah

[07:00:50]

Beirdo:

stop watching livetv

[07:01:32]

justinh:

have less channels, less complicated scheduling :-)

[07:03:04]

Beirdo:

now, I wonder if I shouldn't configure the IR on the LCD :)

[07:03:43]

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[07:03:43]

[R]:

justinh: huh?

[07:03:50]

[R]:

Beirdo: yeah, i should

[07:04:29]

justinh:

[R]: well, the 'next' show actually has to be a scheduled 'live' recording. less channels etc makes for a simpler (& faster) reschedule

[07:04:35]

Beirdo:

but as for constructive ideas... dunno off hand.

[07:04:51]

Beirdo:

I have terabytes of recordings, I don't do livetv

[07:04:55]

justinh:

rip out more than half mythtv's scheduler complexity :)

[07:05:00]

[R]:

justinh: hrm

[07:05:12]

[R]:

justinh: i thought it ws just the act of starting a new livetv session

[07:05:27]

Beirdo:

use the code, Luke.

[07:05:44]

wagnerrp:

justinh: actually, this is something new in 0.24

[07:05:52]

justinh:

oh update manager. GO AWAY. Or (stronger) words to that effect

[07:05:53]

wagnerrp:

there was always a transition

[07:05:59]

wagnerrp:

but it used to be much less noticeable

[07:06:00]

[R]:

oh wow... im watching good will hunting on encore

[07:06:03]

[R]:

super terrific swearing

[07:06:31]

justinh:

must be hard for some people to wean off the teat that is live tv

[07:06:47]

justinh:

never seen the attraction in sitting in front of the tube for hours on end

[07:06:59]

[R]:

im waiting on some cables to hook up my hdpvr to component

[07:07:03]

[R]:

than i'll probalby set a ton of stuff to record

[07:07:05]

[R]:

and just watch that

[07:11:37]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: any chance mailman is down?

[07:11:45]

wagnerrp:

the list has been unusually quiet tonight

[07:11:52]

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[07:12:29]

wagnerrp:

five hours, guess it hasnt been that long

[07:14:50]

Beirdo:

hmmm, one moment

[07:16:11]

Beirdo:

seems to be all there

[07:16:21]

[R]:

what kind of crap do they put on latenight

[07:16:22]

[R]:

Perfect Boobs Discover the lift, support and comfort of the Genie Bra. What all women need!

[07:18:11]

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[07:21:01]

justinh:

sphery: btw, no failed recordings for a while now. Maybe getting rid of squeezeserver helped too

[07:21:41]

justinh:

let that be a lesson to anybody. mythbackend box, in its own realm, master of its own destiny, doing one thing ;-)

[07:22:14]

justinh:

and no, I can't really be bothered with VMs before any clever Trevor pipes up how great an idea it'd be

[07:22:37]

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[07:23:39]

wagnerrp:

you know, mythtv would be great running in a VM on a cloud server instance

[07:24:05]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:28:56]

justinh:

k-man: btw going with your suggestion to make the arrows & their background bars half the width :-) I may live to regret this newest diversion

[07:30:14]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: getting there... http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=A4S7iNh6

[07:30:25]

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[07:31:24]

Beirdo:

cool

[07:31:36]

** Beirdo now decides to use his imon remote **

[07:32:45]

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[07:35:10]

Beirdo:

which of course...means remapping

[07:35:12]

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[08:09:35]

Beirdo:

OK, remote transplant complete

[08:27:20]

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[08:28:00]

EvilGuru:

My imon broke with mythbuntu 11.04 and I doubt it will be fixed any time soon

[08:28:59]

EvilGuru:

actually, I think nearly all of the remote configs in mythbuntu are not /dev/input/event savvy

[08:35:30]

justinh:

ugh. wth kind of retards do we employ here? Manager: y'know that ethernet over coax solution you tested the other week? Yeah well could you test it again but this time over baluns.. cheap video baluns people buy from ebay to put composite video over cat5. Me: WHAT?!

[08:37:00]

justinh:

so we'd take ethernet & baseband video, wizzle it down over one RG58 cable or whatever, then go to a balun, over some cat5 cable.. then another balun back to coax... and back to ethernet at the other end? *IDIOCY*

[08:37:18]

EvilGuru:

ethernet over coax, has been some years

[08:37:36]

EvilGuru:

long runs, I suppose?

[08:37:43]

justinh:

no, just being dicks

[08:37:57]

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[08:38:10]

justinh:

all this rather than source a slip-ring capable of carrying fast LVDS

[08:39:40]

justinh:

I can't imagine how any solution requiring 2 extra boards, godknows how many chips is going to be cheaper than a proper slipring to take HD video from a camera block on a pan,tilt & zoom head

[08:41:33]

EvilGuru:

For managers lots of small items are *always* cheaper than one large item

[08:41:41]

EvilGuru:

irrespective of what the total costs come to

[08:41:59]

justinh:

the slip rings are tiny compared to the size of the boards

[08:48:29]

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[10:32:28]

NickHu:

Hey all, can anyone help me with getting my DVB-S1 card working properly?

[10:33:03]

NickHu:

It seems if I don't restart the backend right before starting the frontend, livetv can never lock on to a channel and seems restricted to one multiplex

[10:33:39]

justinh:

dvb-s1 ?

[10:33:49]

justinh:

you mean dvb-s ? as in not dvb-s2 ?

[10:34:00]

NickHu:

In the backend logs, something along the lines of out of frequency and failed to change channel

[10:34:03]

NickHu:

Yeah

[10:34:18]

k-man:

justinh, which suggestion?

[10:34:22]

NickHu:

Works all perfect and dandy if I restart the backend like a minute before

[10:34:28]

justinh:

something along the lines of ?

[10:34:40]

justinh:

along the lines of ain't really helping anybody help you :)

[10:35:10]

justinh:

k-man: you suggested I get more screen real estate by thinning the arrow area down. I have, and it works well as a look IMHO :)

[10:35:20]

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[10:36:15]

stuartm:

?

[10:36:42]

NickHu:

Sorry

[10:36:49]

NickHu:

Hang on, I'll paste the last day of logs

[10:37:16]

k-man:

justinh, oh right – screen shot?

[10:37:45]

NickHu:

http://paste.xinu.at/H263V/

[10:38:52]

justinh:

k-man: gimme a sec

[10:41:31]

NickHu:

I should point out that the whole set up is local; both front and back on this machine, and my tuner is a Hauppauge Nova S Plus, and I'm in the UK

[10:41:56]

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[10:42:28]

justinh:

k-man: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15539509/Screenshot-U . . . 20Window.png

[10:43:04]

NickHu:

Eastenders and Coronation Street? Yuck

[10:43:06]

justinh:

NickHu: looks like your frequencies are out of range

[10:43:31]

NickHu:

I suspected that.. But how come it works fine and then drifts out of range? Shitty drivers?

[10:43:55]

justinh:

language please

[10:44:00]

NickHu:

Sorry

[10:44:04]

justinh:

it isn't drifting

[10:44:19]

NickHu:

No?

[10:44:29]

justinh:

nope

[10:45:22]

NickHu:

See, I restarted the backend and now it works fine... for now

[10:45:44]

NickHu:

It's just inconvenient to do that every time I launch the frontend

[10:46:05]

justinh:

you mean 'watch tv' :-)

[10:46:27]

NickHu:

Yeah :P

[10:46:42]

justinh:

what I think might be wrong here is that one or more of your transport frequencies are wrong

[10:47:05]

k-man:

justinh, nice

[10:47:19]

NickHu:

And I would fix this by playing around in mythtv-setup? :P

[10:47:22]

justinh:

and that when you try to start live tv, it's setting the channel to the last watched – which happens to be on an incorrectly set up frequency

[10:47:33]

NickHu:

Hmm

[10:47:44]

NickHu:

I'll quit livetv and reenter it, see what happens

[10:47:55]

justinh:

k-man: thanks. how's mythcenter along?

[10:48:03]

k-man:

justinh, ground to a halt

[10:48:19]

NickHu:

Nope, works fine, switches channels too.. :/

[10:48:21]

justinh:

heh. I keep chipping away at mine, doing a little bit at a time

[10:48:45]

k-man:

I keep getting distracted from my core goal which was to fix things that I consider broken, rather than do major updates

[10:48:55]

justinh:

NickHu: frequencies stored in the database shouldn't be changing ad hoc

[10:49:05]

NickHu:

What do you mean by that?

[10:49:10]

k-man:

justinh, I'll get back to it soon though – I got a but stuck with this font issue

[10:49:20]

justinh:

NickHu: I mean, stuff like this doesn't 'just happen'

[10:49:40]

NickHu:

Well to me it *seems* to happen over time.. :/

[10:49:47]

NickHu:

I'll look at yesterday's logs

[10:49:57]

justinh:

NickHu: the log says that it can't tune to channel 101 because the tuner is already busy

[10:50:41]

NickHu:

Hmm

[10:50:48]

justinh:

but if you restart the backend the tuner won't be busy anymore until the scheduler kicks off & resumes recording what it was before it was restarted

[10:50:55]

NickHu:

Ahh

[10:51:03]

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[10:51:09]

k-man:

justinh, so do you just change the opacity of buttons to indicate active?

[10:51:11]

NickHu:

Sometimes I get a case of "Record this show"; and it spits out a 4.00KB file

[10:51:23]

justinh:

k-man: I can't remember

[10:51:32]

justinh:

NickHu: that's what I call a failed recording

[10:51:33]

NickHu:

justinh: I tried setting it to use tuner on demand, but that didn't help

[10:51:51]

NickHu:

Also sometimes it just keeps recording; like it doesn't know when to stop

[10:52:01]

k-man:

justinh, maybe colour too looking at it – ie grey vs white

[10:52:04]

NickHu:

It should use the EIT timetables for recording times right?

[10:52:29]

justinh:

k-man: ah no, arrows are 2 states. white & black 50%

[10:53:44]

justinh:

I sometimes wish there was another statetype.. like 'scrollneeded' or whatever, so then the 'scrollbars' could be optional ;)

[10:54:19]

k-man:

justinh, ah yeah, that would be cool

[10:54:30]

justinh:

hmmm I suppose I could bosh the arrow background into the arrow statetype

[10:54:58]

justinh:

I think I've been there before & decided against it but I can't remember why

[10:55:18]

NickHu:

justinh: Could I perhaps remedy the problem by upping the defined frequency limits?

[10:55:18]

** justinh is glad he doesn't have to wrestle with dvb-s **

[10:55:26]

justinh:

er no

[10:55:31]

NickHu:

Hmm

[10:55:35]

NickHu:

New drivers?

[10:55:39]

justinh:

looks like you have a zero too many in there

[10:55:59]

justinh:

restarting the backend may only mean it isn't hitting that frequency immediately anymore

[10:56:08]

NickHu:

Makes sense...

[10:56:33]

justinh:

that is, unless the numbers in the db are changing.. which if they are you're in big trouble

[10:56:40]

NickHu:

I've also noticed that if I watch tv for an extended period of time (4–5 hours ish) playback freezes and it kicks me out, and then I can't watch tv without restarting the backend

[10:57:12]

NickHu:

I don't get why this happens immediately after I power-on the system as well..

[10:57:15]

k-man:

NickHu, don't watch live tv, watch recordings

[10:57:15]

justinh:

I've also noticed that watching live tv for an extended period of time (4–5 hours ish) is a bloody waste of my life :P

[10:57:36]

NickHu:

k-man: My recordings fail half of the time :P

[10:57:52]

NickHu:

And by watch I mean "Have on in the background because I'm lonely"

[10:58:09]

laga:

aww

[10:58:14]

justinh:

lol

[10:58:25]

justinh:

take up theming. make lots of new friends

[10:58:33]

k-man:

NickHu, maybe you should get out more then?

[10:58:57]

k-man:

NickHu, free to air tv recordings or cable?

[10:59:11]

NickHu:

Erm... I'm UK based..

[10:59:15]

NickHu:

So... Satellite.?

[10:59:25]

justinh:

free to air satellite

[10:59:26]

NickHu:

Cable here is non-existant

[10:59:32]

k-man:

justinh, in the screenshot you showed me, does the bg change depending on the show you have selected or something?

[10:59:48]

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[10:59:48]

justinh:

k-man: yes. fanart. still not sure about keeping that in

[10:59:55]

NickHu:

Still, I'd like to fix this problem.. Any hot ideas?

[11:00:14]

k-man:

forget satelite, get an hdhr

[11:00:20]

justinh:

NickHu: check your transponder frequencies in mythtv-setup

[11:00:42]

justinh:

check none of them are outside the valid range given in the aforeseen error message

[11:01:23]

justinh:

k-man: no point over here. Sky TV don't let you use component AFAIK

[11:01:32]

justinh:

oh HDHR.. oops

[11:01:37]

NickHu:

Is that under video sources?

[11:01:46]

justinh:

k-man: not everywhere in the UK gets free to air digital TV yet

[11:02:10]

k-man:

justinh, the problem I came up with in MythCenter is that some buttons have image backgrounds, and some are just shaded areas, this did not sit well with my sense of uniformity. I tried to make images to match the existing ones, but failed

[11:02:14]

NickHu:

If only someone had told me to go with DVB-T instead of DVB-S -.-

[11:02:37]

k-man:

justinh, oh, thats a bummer

[11:02:38]

justinh:

k-man: what I'd have done in that case is throw out everything & bring in new images

[11:02:52]

justinh:

anyway HDHR is more expensive than a proper tuner card

[11:02:54]

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[11:03:01]

k-man:

justinh, yeah, thought of doing that – then felt a bit faint so I had to lie down

[11:03:04]

NickHu:

Channel frequency table = Europe west?

[11:03:27]

NickHu:

TV format = PAL or PAL-60?

[11:03:33]

justinh:

NickHu: did you scan for channels or did you import a channels.conf file when you first set up mythtv? anyway it's where you do the scanning

[11:03:40]

NickHu:

I scanned

[11:03:45]

k-man:

justinh, I wanted to make a way of generating the buttons that was scriptable – so it would be reproduceable in future

[11:04:04]

justinh:

so the transport editor can be accessed via.. the channel editor page of mythtv-setup

[11:04:10]

justinh:

k-man: eh?

[11:04:12]

k-man:

justinh, imho, hdhr is the best tuner solution for DVB-t

[11:04:27]

justinh:

k-man: why does button generation need to be scriptable?

[11:04:37]

k-man:

justinh, so that in future, it would be easy to make more buttons for anyone maintaining the theme

[11:04:49]

NickHu:

justinh: http://paste.xinu.at/DBG/

[11:04:49]

k-man:

reproduceable

[11:04:56]

justinh:

oh btw I've taken uniformity to another level here. not so many differnet sized buttons :-)

[11:05:12]

k-man:

justinh, yeah, thats good

[11:05:25]

justinh:

NickHu: no idea

[11:05:28]

justinh:

I don't use DVB-S

[11:05:30]

NickHu:

Oh, this? http://paste.xinu.at/X5h/

[11:05:33]

k-man:

justinh, did you do your buttons in inkscape?

[11:05:52]

justinh:

k-man: buttons no. icons etc yes

[11:06:04]

justinh:

NickHu: yes

[11:06:25]

k-man:

justinh, what did you do your buttons in?

[11:06:28]

justinh:

blinkin nora how many transports does freesat have? :-O

[11:06:42]

NickHu:

So justinh, you're saying they all have a zero too many on the end of them?

[11:06:46]

justinh:

no

[11:06:52]

justinh:

I'm saying at least one probably does

[11:07:01]

justinh:

which is what the error message is telling you in the log, yes?

[11:07:14]

NickHu:

Yeah

[11:07:16]

justinh:

and if not, I've no idea why you'd be seeing the error

[11:07:26]

NickHu:

But all the entries here seem to have one too many zeroes

[11:07:35]

NickHu:

They're all 8 digits, whereas the limit is 7 digits

[11:08:03]

justinh:

I have to hand you over to somebody more experienced in this case. I'm out of ideas now

[11:08:31]

NickHu:

"(min/max:950000/2150000)" refers to kHz right?

[11:09:00]

justinh:

yes

[11:09:08]

** justinh goes to buy lunch & nappy bin liners **

[11:09:17]

k-man:

NickHu, are you able to receive properly outside of mythtv?

[11:09:23]

NickHu:

Yup

[11:09:38]

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[11:09:39]

k-man:

NickHu, ok your backend machine under the same OS?

[11:09:51]

NickHu:

Yes...

[11:09:51]

k-man:

s/ok/on/

[11:10:06]

NickHu:

Both backend and frontend running under arch linux x86_64

[11:10:29]

NickHu:

I'm going to try remove one zero from each transponder entry

[11:10:47]

k-man:

ok, good luck

[11:10:59]

NickHu:

It's *very* tedious -.-

[11:11:10]

k-man:

what exactly is the problem?

[11:11:41]

NickHu:

Seems like my tuner goes out of frequency range after a while of not using it until I restart the backend

[11:12:03]

k-man:

oh, thats annoying

[11:12:12]

k-man:

is it usb?

[11:12:24]

NickHu:

Nope

[11:12:30]

NickHu:

Hauppauge Nova S Plus

[11:15:10]

k-man:

rather than changing the transponder entries, why not take a snapshot of them when its working – wait till it fails, then take another snapshot and compare?

[11:17:08]

k-man:

NickHu, sorry, I have no real ideas either

[11:17:33]

NickHu:

They change?!

[11:17:45]

NickHu:

And I've worked through them now xD

[11:18:04]

k-man:

NickHu, can you say it is definately a mythtv problem?

[11:18:08]

NickHu:

Yup

[11:18:37]

NickHu:

So... Now I'm confident that I've either broken or fixed it...

[11:18:48]

k-man:

well, that is either good or bad

[11:18:59]

NickHu:

:P

[11:19:16]

NickHu:

Gee filling the database sure is slow

[11:20:57]

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[11:23:36]

k-man:

justinh, I like your simple shaded buttons

[11:23:40]

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[11:23:44]

k-man:

I might try that in MythCenter

[11:25:07]

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[11:43:55]

justinh:

my main concern here is that the frequencies should *not* be changing, nor should a backend restart produce an effect where previously out of range frequencies are no longer out of range

[11:47:37]

k-man:

so have we in fact confirmed that the frequencies in the db change?

[11:48:19]

justinh:

I don't think they are changing

[11:48:29]

k-man:

justinh, me either -

[11:48:58]

justinh:

I think at least one is wrong, and it seems to be only livetv & some recordings going for a channel on that transport is producing the error

[11:49:13]

justinh:

either than or the driver is flaky beyond anything I've heard of in this channel

[11:49:19]

justinh:

*that, not than

[11:50:12]

k-man:

I like shades rather than images for buttons justinh

[11:50:16]

justinh:

btw is this on 0.24-fixes?

[11:50:16]

k-man:

looks good and damn simple

[11:51:37]

justinh:

k-man: don't forget you can use gradient fills & lines too :)

[11:51:57]

k-man:

justinh, can you gradient lines?

[11:52:04]

justinh:

yup

[11:52:20]

k-man:

anyway, I'm liking no lines

[11:52:31]

k-man:

the lines never sat well with me in mythcenter

[11:53:12]

justinh:

if you have a gradient filled box shape – rounded or not, you can really make it 'pop' by having the outer lines with the same gradient but reversed :)

[11:53:50]

k-man:

as in box gradien is dark to light, left to right, line gradient is light to dark left to right?

[11:53:55]

justinh:

rats – I now remember I intended to take screenshots of my dad's PVR

[11:54:24]

justinh:

k-man: if it's dark to light (up to down) in the fill, make it light to dark (up to down) in the lines ;-)

[11:54:25]

k-man:

justinh, mythcenter is not supposed to pop, just be simple and clean

[11:55:44]

justinh:

all this might change if my TV dies next weekend.. we'd probably end up using Arclight :P

[11:56:01]

k-man:

justinh, heh

[11:58:39]

justinh:

reminds me I need to see if opengl video rendering works on my frontend now

[12:00:31]

justinh:

if it doesn't I think my backend will become the frontend & I'll gety VDPAU rendering :-)

[12:01:12]

justinh:

means I'll have to take a trip in the livingroom crawlspace again but hey... might be fun keeping my son away from the access hatches LOL

[12:02:19]

justinh:

next thing.. make those blimmin stars smaller by 50%. moar room for the description then!

[12:02:35]

justinh:

and I think the next patch I send in will be for the channel icon in the PBB

[12:03:06]

k-man:

justinh, how old is your son?

[12:03:18]

justinh:

a little over 1 year now

[12:03:19]

k-man:

where is your frontend? under the floor or something/

[12:03:25]

k-man:

a right – mine is 2.5

[12:03:27]

justinh:

current frontend lives under the TV

[12:03:36]

justinh:

backend lives in the cupboard under the stairs

[12:04:04]

justinh:

about 7 metres from the TV.. maybe 15 metres cable length

[12:04:40]

k-man:

there is no line gradient example in the wiki that I can see

[12:04:48]

k-man:

wow

[12:04:51]

k-man:

oh backend

[12:05:07]

justinh:

syntax should be the same as for fill AFAIK

[12:05:13]

k-man:

what cable is 15m?

[12:05:24]

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[12:06:00]

justinh:

loads of HDMI cables for 15m lengths

[12:06:16]

justinh:

maybe don't even need that much. I'm not very good at guessing

[12:06:46]

k-man:

why hdmi? if its just your backend there?

[12:07:22]

justinh:

because if I have to buy a new TV it'll be HD

[12:07:44]

justinh:

I see little point playing it out over s-video

[12:07:56]

justinh:

not that the 8400 in the backend has svid

[12:08:13]

k-man:

oh, I see

[12:08:13]

justinh:

so I'll have HDTV & an opportunity to do away with a machine :D

[12:08:28]

k-man:

justinh, does your front end not have a dvi connector?

[12:08:28]

justinh:

rather than waste money updating the frontend

[12:08:38]

k-man:

ah right

[12:08:50]

justinh:

it does, but if gl video rendering is still arse...

[12:08:55]

justinh:

stupid intel junk

[12:09:17]

justinh:

I just need a good excuse to dump the frontend

[12:09:32]

justinh:

heck I'd even make money getting rid of it :-)

[12:10:03]

justinh:

and no, I won't put a machine in the bedroom. noooooooooo way

[12:10:20]

justinh:

no TV in there at all. EVER

[12:10:37]

k-man:

justinh, you wouldn't have a line gradient example you could paste somewhere for me please?

[12:11:07]

justinh:

you tried it? I just assumed... though on looking at the wiki examples maybe I was mistaken

[12:11:36]

k-man:

justinh, are you leading me up the garden path?

[12:12:09]

k-man:

who would know for sure?

[12:12:49]

justinh:

I just *assumed* :)

[12:13:00]

k-man:

justinh, you know what happens when you assume!

[12:13:29]

k-man:

I had a teacher at college who said that every single class – and each time was like supprised that we knew it

[12:13:58]

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[12:14:41]

justinh:

stuartm would likely know

[12:15:26]

NickHu:

Dammit, removing a 0 broken all the channels

[12:15:42]

stuartm:

line gradients aren't currently supported

[12:15:46]

justinh:

k-man: nah, not seeing a line gradient work here

[12:15:56]

stuartm:

but might not be that hard to implement

[12:16:19]

justinh:

stuartm: likely not from what I remember of the code :)

[12:16:20]

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[12:16:44]

justinh:

but not something I really need right now, so I won't be looking at it

[12:16:50]

k-man:

ok, justinh would love it if you guys would implement it ;)

[12:17:12]

** justinh mutters something about the developers having bigger fish to fry ;-) **

[12:17:14]

NickHu:

Do I need to do a mythfilldatabase after editing transponders?

[12:17:18]

justinh:

NickHu: nope

[12:17:37]

** k-man frys some small fry **

[12:17:44]

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[12:19:51]

stuartm:

justinh: yeah, I'm not sure if it would work as desired, but it looks very simple

[12:20:45]

stuartm:

I'll do it tonight if I'm not too busy

[12:21:43]

k-man:

stuartm, ah that will be cool, thanks

[12:22:18]

k-man:

just for the record, it's justinh pushing me to do gradient lines ;)

[12:23:11]

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[12:24:24]

stuartm:

I don't know until I try it whether the gradient direction will be relative to the line vector or not, that could kill the idea stone dead since you won't be able to achieve what you want if the gradient follows the line

[12:25:24]

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[12:27:26]

k-man:

ah yeah

[12:29:03]

stuartm:

at least that's the potential restriction if we rely on QT classes for the gradient drawing

[12:29:21]

NickHu:

Not sure why I bother with this; there's nothing good on tv anyway

[12:29:38]

NickHu:

Any way to get the preview in the menu when you press s respect aspect ratio?

[12:31:33]

lapion:

hmm is there any possibility of unsplitting 2 recordings ? I have a recording (NUV) of which the last 5 mins past the hour got recorded in a different file

[12:34:22]

justinh:

stuartm: my suspicion is that it'll just be a pre-filled mask thing like the fills are – but you're probably right – you never know what crazy ideas trolltech had ;)

[12:34:44]

lapion:

nvm the gap between the recordings is too big to compensate

[12:34:48]

justinh:

NickHu: a preview of what it'd look like in a different aspect?

[12:35:13]

NickHu:

No, get it to not stretch

[12:35:33]

justinh:

eh?

[12:35:41]

justinh:

start again. what preview? what menu?

[12:36:11]

justinh:

if you mean the thumbnail of a recording in 'watch recordings' then you get it in whatever aspect it's broadcast in

[12:36:23]

justinh:

i.e. if it's 16:9 format but they stretched it from 4:3 it'll be fat

[12:37:19]

NickHu:

Nonono

[12:37:22]

stuartm:

justinh: not exactly true, if the theme doesn't use <preserveaspect> then it will stretch the image

[12:37:25]

NickHu:

When in live tv

[12:37:42]

NickHu:

Pressing S gets up the channel listings and stuff

[12:37:53]

justinh:

stuartm: oh? heh

[12:37:54]

NickHu:

And there's a preview of the current channel

[12:38:06]

NickHu:

But it's stretched to hell

[12:38:12]

justinh:

how do you mean?

[12:38:33]

justinh:

btw that's the live TV EPG. Not a menu

[12:38:37]

stuartm:

NickHu: hmm, it shouldn't be doing that, it should display it with the correct aspect ratio – which video renderer is being used?

[12:38:47]

NickHu:

vdpau

[12:38:58]

stuartm:

it works correctly here, also with vdpau

[12:39:12]

NickHu:

http://paste.xinu.at/YIRRW/

[12:39:51]

justinh:

hahaha

[12:40:03]

NickHu:

Wut?

[12:40:11]

justinh:

hahaha

[12:40:33]

justinh:

if I didn't know better I'd say that was intentional

[12:40:51]

justinh:

fix: don't use livetv ;-)

[12:40:54]

NickHu:

It's annoying

[12:41:20]

justinh:

I can see why

[12:41:24]

NickHu:

Daytime tv truly is awful

[12:41:48]

stuartm:

I think it is partly intentional, arclight is defining a video preview area that matches no standard video aspect and the scaling code trips up

[12:42:01]

NickHu:

Hmm

[12:42:27]

stuartm:

I'd guess that editing the theme to define a sane area might work, but it would mask the bug

[12:42:38]

NickHu:

I don't care that much

[12:42:39]

NickHu:

:D

[12:42:47]

justinh:

1201x446 ... oofs

[12:43:19]

NickHu:

BBC HD switched to DVB-S2 right?

[12:43:25]

stuartm:

NickHu: yes

[12:43:25]

justinh:

yup

[12:43:29]

NickHu:

Dammit

[12:43:45]

stuartm:

and CHannel 4 HD is also now FTA, but DVB-S2

[12:43:50]

NickHu:

Now the only HD channel I have is ITV... but it's ITV :/

[12:43:58]

stuartm:

heh, indeed

[12:44:07]

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[12:44:11]

justinh:

upscaled SDTV interspersed with crap dramas & sport

[12:44:18]

stuartm:

well there's is NHK HD and Luxe HD if that is still broadcasting

[12:44:32]

NickHu:

Weren't those DVB-S2?

[12:45:05]

justinh:

don't think so

[12:45:14]

NickHu:

Ah I don't care, those channels suck

[12:45:19]

stuartm:

no they aren't, but a Japanese news channel and a shopping channel selling luxury hotels etc probably isn't of much interest to most people

[12:46:06]

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[12:46:32]

stuartm:

NickHu: the only option is to invest in a DVB-S2 card, but that will cost £50+

[12:47:13]

NickHu:

Meh, not worth it

[12:47:33]

NickHu:

Maybe when DVB-T2 becomes more widespread/compatable...

[12:47:36]

justinh:

stuartm: are the bbc HD channels all on the same transponder?

[12:47:52]

justinh:

NickHu: and dvb-t2 drivers are widespread ;)

[12:48:30]

** justinh hopes the holes in his back wall haven't healed up from when they last had a dish attached **

[12:49:03]

justinh:

ah crap now I remember filling them in when I repointed

[12:49:17]

justinh:

arghh I hate doing things on high ladders

[12:49:18]

NickHu:

Is DVB-S here PAL or PAL-60?

[12:49:32]

justinh:

576i50

[12:49:34]

NickHu:

Language justinh.. ;)

[12:49:59]

stuartm:

justinh: yes they are, so you can record both BBC HD and BBC One HD at the same time

[12:50:38]

justinh:

not sure it's worth the investment putting a dish up just yet. wonder how the PQ compares with terrestrial

[12:51:01]

justinh:

anyway if I manage to find a job where I want to move... it's moot ;-)

[12:51:08]

stuartm:

justinh: tell me about it, I have to replace the guttering at the front of the house, and I've developed a fear of falling from heights ;)

[12:51:23]

justinh:

*if* I can find one that isn't some made up agency thing that is

[12:51:51]

NickHu:

I climbed into my second floor bedroom window because I got locked out once

[12:51:57]

NickHu:

And I'm about 5'4"

[12:52:05]

justinh:

really been getting my goat the last few months... one job advertised multiple times by different agencies – and it's always blimmin agencies – which was a real job vacancy like 10 months ago. GRRRRRRRRRR

[12:52:35]

justinh:

should be illegal, that. I checked, and it's not

[12:52:54]

justinh:

nothing in employment advertising rules says the position advertised has to exist

[12:53:34]

justinh:

stuartm: not cast iron guttering I hope ;)

[12:53:44]

NickHu:

justinh: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T2_PCIe_Cards LIAR!

[12:54:07]

justinh:

NickHu: no, driver support is still whatI would call patchy

[12:54:26]

justinh:

like, if I have a dvb-t2 tuner, I don't want compiling the driver to mess up my existing setup

[12:54:39]

NickHu:

"( 13:47:52 justinh ) NickHu: and dvb-t2 drivers are widespread ;) "

[12:55:03]

justinh:

not in the kernel yet. not my definition of widespread

[12:55:16]

NickHu:

Do they even exist?

[12:55:30]

justinh:

not sure if they'd make it in either, if parts of em are closed binaries

[12:55:44]

justinh:

though that might just refer to firmware

[12:56:21]

justinh:

see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/488615

[12:59:56]

NickHu:

Hmm, interesting

[13:00:13]

NickHu:

I thought GPL forced you to release all the changes you made to the source though..

[13:06:09]

justinh:

it does. but if you don't change the source...

[13:06:34]

justinh:

or you only change the source to accomodate some external blob...

[13:07:21]

justinh:

"please don't make us go back on the NDA to reveal easily reverse engineered register locations"

[13:07:46]

NickHu:

In laymens terms..?

[13:08:08]

NickHu:

And is DVB-T really *that* much better than DVB-S?

[13:12:55]

justinh:

doesn't require a dish, for one :-)

[13:13:09]

justinh:

and any amount of dvb-t tuners only requires ONE downlead from the aerial

[13:13:49]

justinh:

and dvb-t tuners are cheap as chips :-)

[13:14:16]

justinh:

oh, but freeview only has X hundred game & shopping channels. freesat has a factor of 100 more

[13:14:32]

EvilGuru:

freeview tends to be of a higher quality, bitrate wise

[13:14:43]

EvilGuru:

freesat does have some good channels that freeview does not

[13:14:47]

justinh:

EvilGuru: even after switchover?

[13:14:51]

** justinh is skeptical **

[13:15:02]

EvilGuru:

justinh: the CBS channels, for example

[13:15:11]

justinh:

switchover, where they take your 6 muxes pre-switchoff & squish them into 5 muxes

[13:15:39]

justinh:

so we can 'gain' a HDTV mux. yay!

[13:16:59]

justinh:

same junk, higher resolution :P

[13:17:40]

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[13:19:40]

EvilGuru:

justinh: If you want non-junk get a Sky subscription and sky atlantic

[13:20:48]

justinh:

still junk. US imports :-\

[13:21:00]

justinh:

and Sky, over my dead body

[13:22:15]

EvilGuru:

US imports, true, but it is mostly HBO stuff which is far better than your usual FOX/CBS imports

[13:23:06]

justinh:

I'm reluctant to get into anything ever again since they keep cancelling the good stuff

[13:23:21]

justinh:

& then junk like Lost get 7 seasons too many

[13:24:10]

EvilGuru:

I think lost was ABC and the first season was okay, but then it just went nuts

[13:24:33]

JEDIDIAH___:

It's like they were suprised they weren't cancelled and then didn't know what to do with themselves.

[13:25:28]

justinh:

I loved 'Episodes'. there should be more like that. One season. That's sometimes enough

[13:26:55]

justinh:

and if we get to see the best of the US shows.. I really hate to think how awful the rest is

[13:26:58]

justinh:

:)

[13:28:40]

jrr:

"pretty bad" is the answer

[13:29:39]

sphery:

hey, eating gruel every day isn't too bad if you've never had any steak and potatoes and chicken before

[13:32:44]

NickHu:

Use MythArchive to export recording to xvid avi or something like that?

[13:32:48]

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[13:33:56]

justinh:

ask questions much?

[13:34:00]

justinh:

as questions I mean

[13:34:17]

justinh:

mytharchive is for burning DVDs of recordings

[13:34:24]

justinh:

remember those? DVDs.. ahhh fond memories

[13:35:17]

justinh:

BTW avi is the most rubbish video container after .rm

[13:35:55]

NickHu:

I want to spit out my recordings in a format I can upload to the internet

[13:36:05]

NickHu:

Can MythArchive provide this functionality?

[13:36:07]

justinh:

oh dear

[13:36:09]

justinh:

NO

[13:36:12]

NickHu:

xD

[13:36:22]

justinh:

you done trolling now?

[13:36:28]

NickHu:

I'm not trolling :P

[13:36:35]

justinh:

yes you are :-D

[13:36:38]

NickHu:

I are not

[13:37:23]

NickHu:

Seriously, how can I get my recordings in like an avi or mkv or something?

[13:37:32]

NickHu:

You're not suggesting I ffmpeg the original source file and then clip it in video editing are you?

[13:37:36]

justinh:

you should maybe take a couple of minutes & read the channel usage guidelines

[13:37:45]

sphery:

NickHu: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/IRC#Legally-Dubious_Content

[13:37:53]

NickHu:

It's not illegal

[13:38:02]

NickHu:

I own a web server

[13:38:08]

justinh:

uploading of copyright material to the internet is NOT something we condone here

[13:38:09]

NickHu:

I want to be able to dump my crap there

[13:38:20]

NickHu:

Pfft

[13:38:23]

sphery:

and you own /all/ the copyrights for the material you're recording with MythTV?

[13:38:35]

justinh:

even placeshifting hasn't yet been tested in court

[13:39:16]

sphery:

anyway, you've been warned of our channel rules, so please drop the topic of discussion, now

[13:39:36]

NickHu:

Okay

[13:40:32]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/15/sgi_buys_opencfd/

[13:40:34]

justinh:

oh nice. a Seagate Constellation.2 just landed on my desk :-)

[13:41:17]

justinh:

7200RPM, 1TB.. and requires 12V. unusual for a 2.5" HDD, no?

[13:41:42]

sphery:

wow--guess powering all those stars takes more than 5V

[13:41:46]

NickHu:

The general point of all these plugins: web browser, game emulator and stuff like that is so that you could use them with just a TV and remote control far away from your actual computer right?

[13:42:03]

justinh:

NickHu: a frontend machine IS an actual computer

[13:42:18]

sphery:

NickHu: yes, where far is on the order of 10ft/3m :)

[13:42:28]

NickHu:

No, but like, I mean, with a video sender or something?

[13:42:36]

NickHu:

Could send it to the other end of your posh huge fancy mansion

[13:42:40]

sphery:

(versus a standard "desktop" user interface such as 2ft/0.6m

[13:42:46]

justinh:

no. video senders are kinda retarded & yucky

[13:42:53]

NickHu:

Fine, HUGE cable

[13:43:12]

NickHu:

But the point of all of those plugins is to be operable with a remote control right?

[13:43:17]

justinh:

nothing you couldn't do with an ordinary PC & extension cables

[13:43:34]

justinh:

as far as you're able to play games & surf the web with a remote.. erm.. yeah kinda

[13:43:36]

NickHu:

Then why does everything need to be incorporated in myth?

[13:43:58]

justinh:

because somebody thought it'd be nice to converge such stuff into one program

[13:44:00]

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[13:44:25]

justinh:

not that many people would find it useful being able to browse the web on their TV

[13:44:47]

justinh:

because frankly, most sites aren't designed for that & it makes for a less than pleasant experience

[13:45:10]

NickHu:

How well does the myth web browser work?

[13:45:23]

justinh:

try it & find out yourself, you lazy get

[13:45:31]

jrr:

I think the term is 'git'

[13:45:35]

sphery:

it's WebKit, same as Chrome and Safari and ... Just has a Qt user interface on it

[13:45:37]

NickHu:

What's the point? I could just launch firefox instead :P

[13:45:44]

NickHu:

Booo webkit

[13:45:50]

justinh:

NickHu: so what's the point of asking all these dumb questions?

[13:46:02]

justinh:

apart from just to wind people up

[13:46:27]

NickHu:

I'm just wondering why the development of such a flourishing project is so far widespread; myth doesn't *need* to do all of these things, and frankly a lot of other programs do them better

[13:46:58]

JEDIDIAH___:

there is a notable absence of a desktop web browser with good LIRC support

[13:47:16]

justinh:

s/good/any '-)

[13:47:22]

NickHu:

Well there's my answer then :P

[13:47:23]

sphery:

and a good 10ft UI

[13:47:26]

justinh:

similarly, game emulator frontends

[13:47:33]

justinh:

& music player programs

[13:47:46]

NickHu:

Meh, who plays music on a tv anyway xD

[13:47:50]

sphery:

that said, I completely agree that it's a waste to use a browser on the TV 10ft away

[13:47:54]

justinh:

& news readers

[13:48:22]

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[13:48:28]

justinh:

depends what the site is IMHO. the vast majority of sites just don't work in a 'sitting in my lounge chair' context

[13:48:45]

NickHu:

inb4 facebook

[13:48:57]

justinh:

they tried walled-garden sites designed especially for TV browsing but oh boy did that ever suck too

[13:49:18]

sphery:

(About as bad as using a browser on a 3" screen on your cell phone... but now with all the cell phones and tablets that people somehow stomach using for web browsing, having browsing capability on the TV is probably even less important--since they can browse with the cell phone/tablet while actually playing back TV on the TV... But some people actually like browsing with MythBrowser.)

[13:49:56]

justinh:

besides everything else thanks to the stupid T&Cs of most internet video streaming sites you're bound to use mythbrowser to view online video

[13:50:15]

sphery:

and, as long as it's not an excessive burden to continue to maintain MythBrowser, it's available.

[13:50:16]

justinh:

so some people don't actually have a choice ;)

[13:50:35]

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[13:50:38]

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[13:50:57]

sphery:

At least, now, we're starting to use it for other stuff--for example, pulling up the TMDB page on a MythVideo video for you, or using it for Flash playback of content on sites like Hulu, etc, through MythNetvision.

[13:51:15]

NickHu:

Does mythnetvision work for you guys?

[13:51:17]

justinh:

Flash needs to die. NOW

[13:51:25]

sphery:

heh, which is what justinh just said about MNV...

[13:51:41]

justinh:

I don't use it because Flash can't play video without tearing on any machine I own

[13:51:59]

justinh:

oh wait yes.. my new desktop.. but I don't run linux on that

[13:52:06]

JEDIDIAH___:

The replacement for Flash probably won't be any better.

[13:52:07]

EvilGuru:

I won't let flash on any machine I own

[13:52:09]

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[13:52:13]

sphery:

NickHu: yes, as well as it can be expected--since Flash is so inefficient, I can't really play back any of the content on sites using Flash

[13:52:24]

justinh:

html5 is no answer either

[13:52:51]

JEDIDIAH___:

anything that's a suitable flash replacement for content owners will be just like flash.

[13:52:53]

justinh:

maybe it'll all be less bad when everything can scale & colour convert on our GPUs

[13:53:03]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH___: maybe gnash!

[13:53:09]

EvilGuru:

justinh: Neither of which are that intensive

[13:53:11]

justinh:

and *sync* to vblank redrawing

[13:53:23]

justinh:

EvilGuru: they are, in software. like wow

[13:53:26]

EvilGuru:

Compared to actually decoding something like MPEG2/MPEG4

[13:53:57]

sphery:

justinh: that's asking a lot of 2011 tech, though... I mean, sure, Xv had that > 20yrs ago, but it's not a simple thing

[13:54:02]

sphery:

oh, wait, it is

[13:54:22]

justinh:

not remember a load of ATI users coming in saying a P4 running at 2.5Ghz couldn't play back video at full framerate – SDTV res – because they didn't have Xv?

[13:54:33]

JEDIDIAH___:

flash can already decode stuff in hardware. webmasters just have to make use of it. although any replacement will restart the support cycle all over again.

[13:54:57]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH___: and it will limit what site designers can do with their content

[13:55:11]

EvilGuru:

justinh: I did SDTV on a 1Ghz PIII long before Xv and friends came on the scene

[13:55:21]

sphery:

i.e. Stage Video is just chromakey rendering, so they are limited in how they can stack things

[13:55:27]

justinh:

what with? not with ATI I bet

[13:55:36]

sphery:

things like, for example, ads-which I'm sure no one would ever consider displaying on top of a video

[13:55:39]

EvilGuru:

Matrox, no hardware accel

[13:55:39]

sphery:

oh, wait

[13:56:01]

JEDIDIAH___:

for the use case in question, I am not sure those limitations are so terrible or ultimately a bad ting.

[13:56:27]

JEDIDIAH___:

Matrox probably doesn't have the extra silicon to begin with.

[13:56:33]

justinh:

JEDIDIAH___: silly. showing ads while you skip ads in recorded content :P

[13:56:37]

sphery:

EvilGuru: long before Xv? like in the 1980's? Xv came about in early '90s

[13:56:49]

sphery:

or long before the driver for your hardware supported xv?

[13:56:53]

EvilGuru:

sphery: Right, but Xv didn't work/was not supported

[13:57:22]

justinh:

anyway bottom line is, flash sucks to high hell & html5 ain't the answer either

[13:57:32]

JEDIDIAH___:

I was thinking more along the lines of pop up ads you see in cable channels these days. if webmasters can't do that, it's not such a great loss.

[13:57:34]

justinh:

just (for pity's sakes) LET US AT THE VIDEO DIRECTLY

[13:58:02]

justinh:

and if you later find the content shared, sue the ass off whoever uploaded it. don't treat us all like blimmin criminals before the act

[13:58:12]

JEDIDIAH___:

can't do that. you might "steal" it. nevermind the fact that ABC is broadcasting it in the clear.

[13:58:12]

EvilGuru:

It depends how much respect you have for T&C

[13:58:40]

justinh:

I dunno who these people are who 'share' media in the 1st place are anyway. I buy something, I sure as hell ain't giving it away to anybody. Sheesh

[13:58:59]

** EvilGuru browses the net with ghostery and adblock so probably breaks T&C left right and center **

[14:00:20]

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[14:01:44]

jrr:

interesting.. hadn't heard of this ghosty thing

[14:02:21]

NickHu:

Erm, guys, vdpau is what I should be using right?

[14:02:37]

EvilGuru:

NickHu: Indeed, so long as you have a supported card

[14:02:52]

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[14:03:48]

NickHu:

Awesome

[14:03:55]

NickHu:

And Advanced 2x interlacing..?

[14:04:01]

NickHu:

de-interlacing*

[14:04:28]

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[14:04:30]

EvilGuru:

Yep

[14:04:45]

EvilGuru:

It is the deinterlacing that makes VDPAU nicer than software + Xv + yadif

[14:04:53]

andy_ is now known as Guest32363

[14:05:30]

NickHu:

But Advanced 2x deinterlacing IS THE BEST ONE right? :P

[14:06:22]

EvilGuru:

Yes

[14:08:37]

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[14:08:58]

sphery:

in theory, if it "IS THE BEST ONE", wouldn't people be able to tell just by trying it?

[14:09:25]

NickHu:

I can hardly notice but I'm totally anal about these things

[14:09:50]

NickHu:

Also, can I split a recording? it spilled over (By like an hour) and recorded an extra show

[14:10:15]

sphery:

Yes, I'm sure it's extremely important to choose the best when you can't tell a difference... This is exactly what techies do--which is why certain companies can sell them hardware/software for far more than it's worth.

[14:10:23]

** sphery is a bit jaded by the industry **

[14:10:50]

j-rod|afk is now known as j-rod

[14:11:27]

** justinh is happy enough with software deinterlacing for now **

[14:11:59]

sphery:

I switched from software deinterlacing to VDPAU, and was surprised that I didn't see unicorns dancing on rainbows...

[14:12:39]

sphery:

after all the hype on the -users list, I figured it must be a much bigger difference than it is

[14:12:39]

NickHu:

And I want to keep both

[14:12:41]

justinh:

ah rainbows with dancing unicorns, aka lanzcos scaling etc?

[14:12:42]

NickHu:

Yeah, but using deinterlacing doesn't cost me anything

[14:13:06]

justinh:

look! it's making up pixels that were never even there! How awesome is that?!

[14:13:08]

sphery:

right, you want deinterlacing for interlaced material

[14:13:26]

justinh:

*even when you use an interlaced display.. annoyingly

[14:13:59]

sphery:

I'm just saying that this pursuit of (what others claim is, but isn't noticeably) the best is often a waste

[14:14:19]

sphery:

kind of like the people who say that digital is always better than analog

[14:15:09]

sphery:

there's a lot of "it depends" in any technical choice

[14:15:43]

sphery:

that said, choose a deinterlacer that you feel is good--regardless of why you feel it's good--and you'll be happy :)

[14:16:00]

justinh:

heh

[14:16:06]

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[14:16:07]

justinh:

mythtv is THE BEST DVR solution. For me

[14:16:38]

justinh:

not the cheapest, not the easiest to set up, or the easiest for my wife (who protests far too much IMHO) to navigate ;-)

[14:17:42]

sphery:

exactly

[14:18:11]

sphery:

"best" requires far too much qualification to ever be absolute

[14:18:59]

sphery:

anyway, sorry for the OT... just a personal pet peeve that came about from a lot of hype I've seen on the lists

[14:19:09]

justinh:

"best frontend hardware EVAH!"

[14:20:00]

sphery:

heh

[14:20:08]

justinh:

sphery: I enjoy seeing the dancing unicorn brigade's parade being rained on. especially the audiophiliacs & folks who pay a month's wages for an external scaler box

[14:20:12]

** EvilGuru would rather it if deinterlacing died **

[14:20:17]

EvilGuru:

well, interlacing

[14:20:29]

sphery:

that's Atom w/ ION, right? Or is it now a P4 3GHz running Ubuntu in VMWare?

[14:20:31]

justinh:

well then increase framerates too

[14:20:36]

EvilGuru:

why they decided to go with 1080i for freeview/freesat HD

[14:21:07]

justinh:

I'd sooner live with interlaced video than jerky movement TBH

[14:21:14]

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[14:21:25]

sphery:

EvilGuru: interlacing is a good thing... allows transmitting double the spatial resolution in the same bandwidth as progressive

[14:21:45]

sphery:

i.e. interlacing is simply trading temporal resolution for spatial resolution

[14:21:49]

EvilGuru:

sphery: But you half the vertical resolution, and it compresses worse

[14:21:50]

justinh:

ever noticed how jarring a slow landscape pan looks at the cinema? UGH

[14:22:07]

NickHu:

justinh: What do you use for advert detection?

[14:22:11]

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[14:22:13]

justinh:

I don't

[14:22:20]

NickHu:

Also how can I split this recording into 2

[14:22:29]

justinh:

dd

[14:22:42]

EvilGuru:

720p would've been a far better bet, IMO

[14:22:52]

justinh:

EvilGuru: meh. tell the BBC trust et al

[14:23:02]

EvilGuru:

one of the few times where the yanks actually got something to do with TV right

[14:23:32]

justinh:

yeah but NTSC existed for long enough for that not to make a difference yet ;)

[14:24:18]

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[14:24:44]

andysummerskill:

I've just joined the MythTV-users mailing list. There is a conversation I'd like to reply to but I can't see how to reply to the ongoing conversation. Can anyone tell me how to reply to an existing MythTV-users conversation?

[14:24:49]

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[14:25:00]

EvilGuru:

andysummerskill: reply to the e-mail in question?

[14:25:14]

justinh:

put Re: SUBJECT TITLE COPIED FROM THE LIST EMAIL in the subject

[14:25:36]

justinh:

what are the UK gov putting in the water today? jesus

[14:25:53]

sphery:

andysummerskill: assuming you didn't get the original: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/487553#487553

[14:26:08]

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[14:26:20]

NickHu:

justinh: What do you mean by dd?

[14:26:30]

sphery:

andysummerskill: where you can find the "reply-to" link at: http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/

[14:26:57]

justinh:

NickHu: Dexter's sister.

[14:27:17]

EvilGuru:

justinh: Since the fall of communism in the 80s water is now in the safe and trustworthy hands of the private sector

[14:27:35]

** sphery is sad... CBS showed season 1 of Dexter on broadcast TV during the writers' strike, but never showed the later seasons **

[14:27:36]

justinh:

EvilGuru: nah, uk gov still puts stuff in the water to make people dense

[14:27:57]

justinh:

somebody must be, there's a lot of it about today

[14:28:08]

NickHu:

Can I actually split this recording or not then?

[14:28:10]

stuartm:

sphery: we only got two seasons here

[14:28:29]

justinh:

NickHu: not with mythtv, no

[14:28:33]

sphery:

stuartm: yeah, I'm going to have to get the DVDs--it was a good show

[14:28:45]

sphery:

surprised they didn't keep airing it over there

[14:28:52]

NickHu:

Okay

[14:28:55]

stuartm:

justinh: PVCu, so not heavy :)

[14:28:56]

justinh:

NickHu: I think somebody made a user job script for splitting recordings & put it in the wiki but I dunno if it'll still work

[14:28:59]

EvilGuru:

NickHu: Grab the file from the backend and then open it up in your favourite NLVE

[14:29:57]

sphery:

I can kind of understand not doing the cable->broadcast "translation" (i.e. "edited for content") part over here, but I'd think they'd at least offer it all on a cable-tv-like-rules network over there

[14:29:57]

stuartm:

sphery: the really wierd bit is that it aired on ITV, who almost never show imports, or good programs for that matter

[14:30:04]

sphery:

heh

[14:30:33]

justinh:

aha http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Cutting_Music_Videos

[14:30:37]

andysummerskill:

The conversation in question is in the archive (only a couple of days old though), so I didn't receive the original message. Also no 'reply to' links on either http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ or http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/487553#487553

[14:31:07]

justinh:

andysummerskill: times I've felt the need (which frankly ain't very often) I just fire off an email with Re: SUBJECT

[14:31:14]

sphery:

I guess CBS wanted me to call up my cable co and get a premium subscription of Showtime to help line their pockets more easily than is done with advertising

[14:31:21]

justinh:

seems to get sorted out at the other end

[14:31:33]

sphery:

andysummerskill: which thread

[14:31:39]

stuartm:

sphery: broadcast TV over here doesn't get edited, unless it's shown before 9pm

[14:31:50]

sphery:

andysummerskill: and did you read my instructions in http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/487553#487553 ?

[14:31:55]

EvilGuru:

sphery: Can mythtv do anything with cable? Or is it all evil.

[14:32:22]

sphery:

for showtime, it would almost definitely require a cable set-top-box and an analog recorder (PVR-150 or HD-PVR)

[14:32:22]

justinh:

EvilGuru: no cable in the UK you can use with mythtv anyway, so forget it

[14:32:28]

stuartm:

we get nudity/sex, violence, bad language and more on FTA broadcast TV

[14:32:38]

justinh:

stuartm: sex on TV? :-O

[14:32:39]

justinh:

WHERE?!

[14:32:55]

sphery:

stuartm: we don't since the FCC is imposing morals on our mindless population

[14:32:56]

EvilGuru:

justinh: Actually wondering in the states; never been able to get cable here even if I wanted it

[14:33:35]

justinh:

sphery: but you can have a show about a serial killer where you get to see a disembowling but no boob? LOL

[14:33:42]

hashbang:

stuartm: albeit with naughty bits blurred/pixelated/cropped out of shot

[14:34:20]

sphery:

(that said, the Supreme Court is going to hear the FCC's appeal on the federal court decision that the FCC's indecency rules were overstepping their bounds)

[14:34:46]

justinh:

what I don't understand is why they aren't so daft about violence & gore onscreen too

[14:34:58]

stuartm:

hashbang: huh? oh you mean porn? well no we don't get explicit stuff FTA :) Although there was a Dutch film on BBC2 the other night which had a few seconds of pretty explicit stuff (unedited)

[14:35:01]

justinh:

don't ever remember having nightmares about a naked lady ;-)

[14:35:38]

EvilGuru:

or stupidity, I sometimes used to watch glenn beck at a friends house

[14:36:04]

EvilGuru:

there is no way that kind of thing would be allowed here in the UK

[14:36:18]

EvilGuru:

at least on a FTA news channel

[14:36:25]

** sphery takes a random guess **

[14:36:26]

justinh:

nah they don't even allow people to parody scenes in the house of parliament

[14:36:52]

EvilGuru:

parliament do a good enough job of it themselves without needing help from comics

[14:37:04]

sphery:

andysummerskill: Go to http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /319616.html , then click on the link next to the name, "Simon Hobson," and it will pop up a "compose" window in your e-mail program

[14:37:09]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: you mean we'd not allow pure ignorance and hatred to be broadcast as news? Damn, something must be really wrong with us ;)

[14:37:53]

sphery:

andysummerskill: if it turns out that's not the proper message to which you're trying to reply, *find* the right one at http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ (specifically, if it's just a couple days old, at http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . st/date.html ...)

[14:38:09]

justinh:

pure ignorance & hatred? sounds like what my dad rants about..

[14:38:18]

justinh:

(in the form of) ;-)

[14:39:44]

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[14:40:19]

sphery:

Wait, you're saying that news shouldn't tell me what and how to think? If not, then who will?

[14:41:36]

justinh:

think my dad listens too much to what the Daily Mail says. Of the riots last week he said it was all the fault of "THE BL**KS"

[14:42:13]

justinh:

as each year goes by he gets ever more right wing. gonna have to disen-wassisname him soon

[14:42:14]

EvilGuru:

the daily mail is *great* entertainment

[14:47:46]

mycosys:

personally i reckon ur govt has failed you

[14:48:08]

mycosys:

any govt that lets a large part of the populace get that unhappy is in bad shape

[14:48:24]

mycosys:

the fact it was mostly kids is even worse imo

[14:49:47]

stuartm:

it had nothing to do with people being unhappy, it was just an act of widespread criminality

[14:51:07]

mycosys:

content people dont do that shit

[14:51:08]

stuartm:

the total numbers involved were tiny and pretty much every community they came from condemned them (and in most cases shopped them to the police too)

[14:51:59]

stuartm:

mycosys: it was mostly kids, under the age of 18 (who incidentally grew up entirely under the previous government)

[14:52:24]

mycosys:

i know

[14:52:34]

mycosys:

disenfranchised kids

[14:52:52]

jrr:

kids need hobbies

[14:54:34]

mycosys:

also need hope and a feeling of purpose and involvement

[14:54:41]

stuartm:

kids need decent parents and teachers

[14:54:57]

stuartm:

to learn right from wrong etc

[14:55:06]

mycosys:

tey need a whole society for that

[14:55:22]

mycosys:

but paying teachers and treating them well is a good start

[14:56:40]

stuartm:

their primary contact with society is their parents and teachers, if they aren't doing a good job then ...

[14:57:49]

justinh:

mycosys: fact is, even well-odd kids were doing it

[14:58:47]

stuartm:

right, the daughter of a millionaire was one of those arrested for looting

[14:59:02]

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[14:59:39]

justinh:

found it quite shocking how right wing some people are under the skin...

[14:59:46]

stuartm:

university student, who said in her defence, "I was passing by the shop and thought, why not?"

[14:59:49]

justinh:

"send the army in, open fire..."

[15:00:36]

stuartm:

justinh: to be fair, it would significantly improve the gene pool :p

[15:01:24]

justinh:

stuartm: not unless you also shoot their parents

[15:01:45]

stuartm:

heh, true

[15:02:41]

stuartm:

actually I blame TV

[15:02:52]

justinh:

yeah there's not enough sex on TV

[15:02:59]

stuartm:

or more precisely, the lack of anything decent on TV on those nights ;)

[15:03:06]

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[15:03:08]

justinh:

too much mindless violence, not enough nudity

[15:03:58]

justinh:

my wife was watching casualty as usual on Sunday night. I saw two kids nick a car & speed off, cops in chase. Big crash.. I shouted at the telly when the ambulance came.. NAH JUST LET EM DIE

[15:04:16]

** justinh for PM ! **

[15:04:23]

laga:

yeah, you obviously need more nudity

[15:05:02]

justinh:

laga: you said you were disgusted I wanted the guy who damaged my car to die. that was nothing compared to how I felt about the blokes who broke into my house :P

[15:05:36]

justinh:

oops I didn't *want* him to die – I just wasn't unhappy when he was found that way. Ahem

[15:05:46]

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[15:05:55]

sid3windr:

:D

[15:06:07]

sid3windr:

it's all in the wording, justinh

[15:06:28]

justinh:

the bleeding heart liberal do-gooders were getting on my nerves no end last week though

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[15:09:06]

justinh:

I take some responsibility in the whole sorry affair. For all the times I haven't turned in a youngster for riding their motorbike on public land, for all the times I haven't taken a yob to task for smashing glass on the pathways... (etc) :)

[15:10:12]

justinh:

and on that bombshell.. it's hometime

[15:10:32]

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wagnerrp:

NickHu: you cant use VDPAU with NUVs

[15:18:01]

NickHu:

What's your point?

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[15:22:21]

wagnerrp:

just reading through the backlog

[15:22:35]

wagnerrp:

you were messing around with a NUV, and said you were using the VDPAU renderer

[15:22:46]

wagnerrp:

NUVs dont exist in a format supported by VDPAU

[15:22:56]

wagnerrp:

sphery: that doesnt really make sense

[15:23:31]

sid3windr:

context is useful =)

[15:23:32]

wagnerrp:

theyre going to continue distributing openfoam open source

[15:23:49]

wagnerrp:

but theyre going to have a more capable version that incorporates mpi

[15:24:42]

wagnerrp:

so that implies openfoam does not currently incorporate mpi, pvm, mpich, lam, or any of several other standard parallel communication and synchronization interfaces

[15:25:02]

wagnerrp:

and since one would be foolish to try to write your own rather than use one of these

[15:25:13]

wagnerrp:

that means openfoam itself does not run parallel

[15:25:43]

wagnerrp:

which in this day and age... no, even back in the 80s, is baffling for a CFD code

[15:26:21]

wagnerrp:

then theres the whole confusing bit about SGI still being around

[15:26:32]

wagnerrp:

didnt they file for bankruptcy ages ago?

[15:29:19]

wagnerrp:

ok, the wikipedia article sheds some more like

[15:29:29]

wagnerrp:

openfoam is NOT a CFD solver

[15:29:43]

wagnerrp:

rather it is a solver framework within which to write solvers

[15:32:30]

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sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, I only linked it because of the CFD stuff

[15:51:14]

sphery:

I don't know anything about any of it :)

[15:51:41]

wagnerrp:

according to slashdot, every geek loves a good beowulf cluster

[15:52:13]

stuartm:

guess I'm not a geek then

[15:52:50]

wagnerrp:

considering thats all most of these 'supercomputer' manufacturers make any more

[15:52:51]

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wagnerrp:

just a bunch of xeon/opterons on a big fat network

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[16:56:13]

JEDIDIAH___:

beowulf is just a big joke on slashdot.

[16:56:18]

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[16:56:55]

wagnerrp:

imagine a beowulf cluster of big jokes

[16:57:06]

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[16:57:14]

JEDIDIAH___:

go to the Catskills

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dewman:

JEDIDIAH___, l always laugh when I have to travel to coxsackie ny....

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[18:10:39]

robertzaccour:

can someone help me with the hd-pvr setup? I'm on the official wiki. How do I unpack the driver I downloaded? just extract it?

[18:12:56]

robertzaccour:

is everyone here just idlers?

[18:13:28]

robertzaccour:

people should leave rather than give the impression there's people actually here IMO

[18:13:30]

wagnerrp:

entirely possible

[18:13:38]

wagnerrp:

thats not how IRC works

[18:13:44]

wagnerrp:

you ask your question, and then idle for hours

[18:13:54]

wagnerrp:

at some point, someone may read the backlog and have an answer for you

[18:14:00]

robertzaccour:

oh ok

[18:14:25]

wagnerrp:

its not instant help, unless someone who has used that device and has the free time just happens to be around at the exact instant you ask your question

[18:14:48]

robertzaccour:

I see

[18:14:54]

wagnerrp:

(for reference, i dont have one)

[18:15:31]

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[18:15:45]

robertzaccour:

do you know how to unpack a windows driver?

[18:16:07]

wagnerrp:

nope, the wiki doesnt have any information on how to do so?

[18:16:20]

robertzaccour:

its exe

[18:16:23]

robertzaccour:

no

[18:16:26]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/HDPVR#HD-PVR_Driver_Compilation_Howto

[18:16:28]

robertzaccour:

it just says unpack it

[18:16:48]

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[18:17:09]

robertzaccour:

I think it may be included by default though

[18:17:10]

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[18:17:32]

wagnerrp:

you dont use windows drivers in linux, unless doing something screwy like NDIS wrapper

[18:17:45]

skd5aner:

robertzaccour: You shouldn't have to do anything

[18:17:50]

skd5aner:

the driver should be included in the kernel

[18:18:16]

JEDIDIAH___:

That section of the wiki page is talking about dealing with the device under windows.

[18:18:18]

wagnerrp:

the only reason you might have to get the windows driver is for access to the firmware

[18:18:20]

robertzaccour:

I'm trying to run mythtv but it says I have to join the group. How do I do that?

[18:18:43]

wagnerrp:

what says you have to join the group?

[18:18:46]

skd5aner:

you have to have the user that runs mythtv in the "video" group

[18:19:07]

wagnerrp:

if youre talking about device node file permissions, then what skd5aner said

[18:19:24]

wagnerrp:

the user running mythbackend and mythtv-setup must be in whatever group owns the device node

[18:19:35]

wagnerrp:

generally that is "video"

[18:20:20]

robertzaccour:

You must be a member of the "mythtv" group before starting any mythtv applications. Would you like to automatically be added to the group? (Note: sudo access required)

[18:20:30]

robertzaccour:

thats what it tells me when I try to run it

[18:20:36]

wagnerrp:

that sounds like something mythbuntu does

[18:21:12]

sphery:

You must be a member of the No Homers Club before starting any mythtv applications...

[18:21:14]

robertzaccour:

I'm running Ubuntu live session. Wanna make sure I can get it to work right before installing Ubuntu

[18:21:39]

wagnerrp:

if you are running the ubuntu mythtv packages, that is mythbuntu

[18:21:39]

sphery:

I highly recommend installing Mythbuntu if you're just getting started with MythTV

[18:21:57]

wagnerrp:

they have all sorts of wrapper scripts and other utilities around mythtv

[18:22:50]

sphery:

robertzaccour: they've already configured Ubuntu for MythTV... If you start with vanilla Ubuntu and add MythTV--*and* you do it right--you basically end up with where you start with Mythbuntu.

[18:22:57]

sphery:

http://mythbuntu.org/

[18:23:24]

robertzaccour:

its a lot easier using my HD-PVR in Windows. Haven't had any issues that way

[18:24:00]

robertzaccour:

here's what I've done with it http://youtube.com/knucklebrawler

[18:24:11]

robertzaccour:

I record my online gameplay on my ps3

[18:24:31]

wagnerrp:

are you planning on recording TV from your cable box with your HDPVR?

[18:24:41]

robertzaccour:

ps3 online gameplay

[18:24:51]

wagnerrp:

scheduled tv from your cable box...

[18:25:22]

wagnerrp:

if you are not recording scheduled TV, mythtv is not the right tool for the job

[18:25:24]

skd5aner:

robertzaccour: the HD-PVR is basically plug in play in linux, especially in mythbuntu

[18:25:55]

skd5aner:

robertzaccour: you shouldn't have to do a single thing, if you do as sphery and wagnerrp suggested and try running the mythbuntu distro rather than ubuntu + mythtv packages

[18:26:24]

robertzaccour:

What does No Upnp mean?

[18:26:26]

skd5aner:

even if you don't run the mythbuntu distro from the start, it's still plug-and-play. The only reason you need windows is when upgrading the firmware in the device

[18:26:43]

wagnerrp:

robertzaccour: is recording from your PS3 the only thing you use your HDPVR for?

[18:26:49]

robertzaccour:

yes

[18:27:01]

wagnerrp:

then mythtv will not do what you want

[18:27:11]

robertzaccour:

really??

[18:27:15]

robertzaccour:

it works fine in windows

[18:27:33]

skd5aner:

heh, well... it "could" – but only if you weren't using it to actually play the PS3 through

[18:27:35]

wagnerrp:

do you use windows MCE to record your game sessions?

[18:27:45]

robertzaccour:

I play the ps3 through my tv

[18:27:57]

wagnerrp:

or do you use some video capture program?

[18:28:01]

robertzaccour:

yes

[18:28:08]

robertzaccour:

TotalMediaExtreme

[18:28:09]

skd5aner:

you could use mythtv to record the game and then use the passthrough to play the game directly into the TV

[18:28:25]

JEDIDIAH___:

wanna capture your game sessions? "cat /dev/video0 > my_video_game_session.mpg" is all you need.

[18:28:40]

skd5aner:

that would prevent the delay, but mythtv isn't really designed to be an "on demand" input recorder like that

[18:28:48]

skd5aner:

it's designed to record channels

[18:29:07]

wagnerrp:

robertzaccour: mythtv is a PVR for recording scheduled television shows

[18:29:12]

skd5aner:

JEDIDIAH___: heh, +1

[18:29:13]

wagnerrp:

think of it like a tivo

[18:29:27]

wagnerrp:

you give it rules, it records shows based off those rules

[18:29:27]

robertzaccour:

oh ok

[18:29:36]

robertzaccour:

this stuff is too advanced for me it seems haha

[18:29:50]

wagnerrp:

while you *could* manually record off your PS3 using it

[18:29:51]

skd5aner:

not necessarily too advanced, just designed for a different use

[18:29:57]

robertzaccour:

I just wanna click and record with a display screen

[18:29:58]

wagnerrp:

it is entirely the wrong purpose for the application

[18:30:02]

JEDIDIAH___:

no. It's just stuff done already, with no app needed, just based on how Unix handles devices.

[18:30:10]

wagnerrp:

as JEDIDIAH___ stated, the simple 'cat' command is all you need

[18:30:17]

skd5aner:

you could do what JEDIDIAH___ suggested above... just dump the stream directly to a file

[18:30:31]

robertzaccour:

I typed that in the terminal it said "invalid argument"

[18:30:48]

JEDIDIAH___:

leave out the quotes.

[18:30:52]

robertzaccour:

I did

[18:30:58]

skd5aner:

well, you need to also make sure your device is /dev/video0

[18:31:02]

wagnerrp:

do you have any other video capture devices besides your HDPVR?

[18:31:06]

skd5aner:

ls /dev/video*

[18:31:07]

skd5aner:

type that

[18:31:07]

robertzaccour:

no

[18:31:09]

wagnerrp:

another capture device? a webcam?

[18:31:44]

robertzaccour:

type what?

[18:31:50]

skd5aner:

into the command line

[18:31:54]

skd5aner:

ls /dev/video*

[18:31:54]

JEDIDIAH___:

is your device there?

[18:32:50]

robertzaccour:

/dev/video1 is what it says

[18:33:08]

skd5aner:

so, now type cat /dev/video1 > my_video_game_session.mpg

[18:33:15]

robertzaccour:

oops forgot to turn on the ps3

[18:33:25]

wagnerrp:

that shouldnt matter, the device will just record static

[18:33:28]

skd5aner:

that should create a file, in whatever directory you are in, based on whatever the device is pulling

[18:33:45]

jrr:

skd5aner: in mpg format? really?

[18:33:55]

skd5aner:

it's mpeg4

[18:34:03]

wagnerrp:

jrr: yes, the device record to h264 in an mpeg2ts container

[18:34:12]

jrr:

nice

[18:35:16]

robertzaccour:

cat /dev/video1 > my_video_game_session.mpg cat: /dev/video1: Input/output error

[18:35:40]

robertzaccour:

oops brb

[18:36:49]

skd5aner:

robertzaccour: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7700147&postcount=6

[18:37:19]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: maybe a video stream does have to be present?

[18:38:56]

robertzaccour:

I had the correct input on the tv wrong

[18:39:06]

robertzaccour:

so if it does nothing but space down does that mean its recording now?

[18:39:21]

wagnerrp:

correct

[18:39:25]

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[18:39:33]

wagnerrp:

if it is recording, it will continue recording until you terminate the command

[18:39:41]

wagnerrp:

either with 'kill' in another terminal

[18:39:44]

wagnerrp:

or ctrl-c in that one

[18:39:53]

robertzaccour:

ok I will try that thanks

[18:40:29]

wagnerrp:

you should see that mpg file filling around around 1–1.5MB/s

[18:40:39]

wagnerrp:

and it should be directly playable in some media player

[18:40:45]

robertzaccour:

movieplayer is taking a few minutes to install a codec

[18:41:01]

wagnerrp:

no mplayer? no vlc? no ffplay?

[18:41:14]

wagnerrp:

by 'movie player', i assume that means 'totem'?

[18:41:21]

robertzaccour:

I'll try vlc

[18:41:36]

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[18:41:39]

robertzaccour:

remember I'm just in a live session to see if it works

[18:42:47]

robertzaccour:

great it works now

[18:42:59]

skd5aner:

that'll be $35

[18:43:03]

robertzaccour:

is mythtv required to capture the video from the ps3 or is it automatic?

[18:43:12]

wagnerrp:

did you use mythtv just now?

[18:43:14]

skd5aner:

payable to JEDIDIAH___, wagnerrp, and skd5aner

[18:43:24]

robertzaccour:

if yall were here I'd pay yall haha

[18:43:30]

skd5aner:

I'm kidding, of course

[18:43:33]

robertzaccour:

actually I don't think mythtv was even running

[18:43:39]

wagnerrp:

seems to me you used drivers built into the linux kernel, and a command built into bash

[18:43:41]

skd5aner:

yea, you don't need mythtv at all

[18:43:45]

wagnerrp:

mythtv no played no part in the matter

[18:43:58]

skd5aner:

although, you could play it back in mythtv if you so wished, within mythvideo

[18:44:07]

robertzaccour:

ok thanks

[18:44:09]

skd5aner:

but, that would be way overkill to use mythtv for something like that

[18:44:17]

robertzaccour:

I'm gonna play a game and see if it records audio brb

[18:44:22]

skd5aner:

you'd be using about 10% of the capability

[18:44:30]

wagnerrp:

do you have some compelling reason to use linux, besides recording from your HDPVR?

[18:44:53]

wagnerrp:

it seems your task can be done equally well in both windows and linux

[18:44:56]

skd5aner:

hmmm, EAC does not like to rip from CD-Rs :/

[18:45:03]

wagnerrp:

if your only reason to use linux was because it was needed for mythtv

[18:45:27]

wagnerrp:

not to dissuade you from switching if you simply want to use linux...

[18:45:37]

robertzaccour:

I prefer Linux. Faster, more secure, smaller software installs, doesn't slow down, and always stuff to modify and learn

[18:48:05]

robertzaccour:

I'm gonna see if it records audio brb

[18:49:48]

robertzaccour:

yall are great, consider you friends already -_-

[18:58:57]

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[18:59:01]

robertzaccour:

how do I make it full framerate?

[18:59:56]

wagnerrp:

it will record at whatever resolution and framerate the PS3 gives it

[19:00:01]

wagnerrp:

you have no control over those settings

[19:00:14]

robertzaccour:

oh I think it already is now that I look at it

[19:00:20]

robertzaccour:

thanks, yall have a great day

[19:00:27]

robertzaccour:

hope yall like my youtube videos

[19:00:42]

robertzaccour:

http://youtube.com/knucklebrawler

[19:02:32]

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[19:04:31]

robertzaccour:

I see it really isn't a chat haha

[19:04:36]

robertzaccour:

well thanks for the help greatly appreciated

[19:19:20]

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[19:54:51]

justinh:

oh he just wants to record gameplay in HD. Meh

[19:55:26]

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[20:03:25]

JEDIDIAH___:

the register recently reviewed the colossus with this use case in mind. I thought they were nuts

[20:05:59]

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[20:07:04]

stuartm:

JEDIDIAH___: it's the _only_ use case for the UK

[20:07:17]

** EvilGuru was about to say that **

[20:07:37]

stuartm:

there is no unencrypted HDMI here

[20:07:46]

stuartm:

except for consoles

[20:07:48]

EvilGuru:

is there unencrypted HDMI anywhere?

[20:08:14]

justinh:

EvilGuru: yeah. the rubbish the company I work for sell outputs uncrippled HDMI

[20:08:27]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: yes, consoles as I mentioned, and in the US apparently certain channels have to be available without access restrictions

[20:08:47]

justinh:

did I say rubbish? Ooops. I meant absolutely world-class technology innovating brilliant hardware

[20:08:58]

EvilGuru:

I would've thought consoles would err on the side of big media and just force HDCP anyway

[20:09:15]

EvilGuru:

rather than selectively enable it when you want to play media through them

[20:09:18]

justinh:

is there any STB component output anymore in the UK?

[20:09:37]

stuartm:

plus they have component-out on their STBs in the US, except for a few rare old boxes that's not an option here

[20:10:02]

stuartm:

justinh: someone mentioned that some older Sky boxes are still in circulation

[20:10:03]

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[20:10:20]

stuartm:

I'm surprised tbh

[20:10:48]

justinh:

not that people aren't finding other ways to get stuff off sky boxes

[20:10:53]

EvilGuru:

I think they can turn off component if they want to

[20:11:10]

EvilGuru:

But I remember years back people doing the HD fury + HDPVR

[20:11:42]

justinh:

our stuff can do HDCP. the keys would be stored in I2C NVRAM (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[20:12:04]

stuartm:

given that sky hand out their boxes at the drop of a hat and they can disable the older boxes easily, I can't see why they would not have 'upgraded' customers to the new hardware

[20:12:06]

justinh:

I2C! :-O You can wiggle parallel port pins & read that stuff

[20:13:52]

stuartm:

justinh: it's harder to understand why your kit would need HDCP and therefore protect the keys?

[20:14:25]

justinh:

it just comes as a feature of the xceiver chips we use

[20:14:47]

justinh:

apparently I2C is very very common for storing stuff like that

[20:15:03]

stuartm:

unless customers were paranoid about highly organised jewel thieves staging an Ocean's Eleven style heist using their own camera footage

[20:15:22]

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[20:15:33]

justinh:

we're selling the new stuff on the basis "it cannot be hacked, EVER"

[20:15:59]

justinh:

I mean apart from injecting webpage queries from the WAN side of the DVR.. LOL

[20:16:00]

stuartm:

but it can, right?

[20:16:52]

justinh:

at the heart of it is a very cheap switch chipset. I mean the kind you might find inside a £25 gig E switch

[20:17:10]

justinh:

stuartm: course it could be. nobody has yet taxed it

[20:17:35]

justinh:

the idea though is that the CCTV never even touches the LAN

[20:17:46]

justinh:

and hence, is secured. heh

[20:18:08]

justinh:

but you can totally PWN the DVR very easily

[20:18:25]

stuartm:

note to self, do not run makemkv when wanting to use the machine for other things, it chews through memory, processor power and I/O

[20:18:31]

justinh:

we did it on a couple of public machines ;-)

[20:18:59]

justinh:

google a certain string to find them, then give it a query & it bypasses all the security

[20:19:29]

justinh:

the cameras are er.. neat too. power cycle em & they can take a good couple of minutes to boot up

[20:20:19]

justinh:

stuartm: my new quad core desktop box eats videos for breakfast. I get about 70fps encoding DVD to h.264

[20:20:20]

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[20:20:57]

justinh:

HD to h.264 from my camcorder.. about realtime.. worse if it's processed (colored etc) – much much worse :-\

[20:21:43]

wagnerrp:

that seems awfully high

[20:21:46]

** justinh hopes his employer never finds the channel logs **

[20:22:26]

wagnerrp:

unless youre talking about a new >3GHz i5/i7

[20:22:28]

stuartm:

justinh: why do I get the feeling that this is going to be the subject of the next NoTW style scandal? "Employees of CCTV manufacturer 'hack' into client's systems to obtain and sell footage of celebrities in compromising situations"

[20:22:56]

justinh:

was it 70fps? hmmm.. maybe only 50fps or so. It's way faster than realtime anyhow

[20:23:08]

stuartm:

justinh: makemkv doesn't even encode, it's just ripping and re-muxing into a mkv container

[20:23:35]

justinh:

ah

[20:23:38]

wagnerrp:

EvilGuru: at least my PS3 does not function without HDCP

[20:23:52]

stuartm:

the resulting files are a bit bigger than a DVD rip ... 28GB in this case

[20:24:22]

justinh:

stuartm: some customers let our service people log in to check their systems. we could see lapdancing & certain celeb haunts

[20:25:01]

justinh:

what what what? people inciting riot on FB got 4 years?! :-O

[20:25:14]

EvilGuru:

outstanding

[20:25:21]

wagnerrp:

did they partake in the riot themselves?

[20:25:26]

justinh:

wagnerrp: likely not

[20:25:29]

stuartm:

justinh: well when you're raking in the money just remember that it was my idea ;)

[20:25:31]

EvilGuru:

wagnerrp: No, but they did try to statt one

[20:25:45]

justinh:

lock the Kaiser Chiefs up instead

[20:26:05]

stuartm:

justinh: but they just predicted a riot ...

[20:26:11]

wagnerrp:

i guess thats really something where the content of the messages is important

[20:26:11]

EvilGuru:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-20267 . . . R-years.html

[20:26:36]

justinh:

I'm not looking at that link. don't want the Mail making any money from me

[20:27:09]

EvilGuru:

justinh: adblock, they don't get a penny from me

[20:27:35]

stuartm:

oh crap – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14548951

[20:27:37]

EvilGuru:

Either way they will be out in 1--2 years

[20:27:41]

stuartm:

crap, crap, crap

[20:27:47]

EvilGuru:

stuartm: indeed

[20:27:49]

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[20:27:57]

EvilGuru:

time to look into EIT again :(

[20:28:18]

wagnerrp:

time to expand SD?

[20:28:32]

** stuartm says something stronger than crap a few more times **

[20:28:59]

justinh:

holy heck.. one of em is from Northwich.. .. which last time I looked was a sleepy kinda place in Cheshire

[20:29:12]

EvilGuru:

EIT is not too bad over here, but RT does much better commentary on a lot of things

[20:29:17]

stuartm:

justinh: heh, yeah, I used to live there

[20:29:44]

EvilGuru:

still, providing xmltv was kind of silly from a business standpoint

[20:29:44]

stuartm:

well, a mile outside it in the village of Hartford, which is even sleepier

[20:30:04]

stuartm:

it's the quality I'll miss if they yank the xmltv feed

[20:30:36]

EvilGuru:

I mean, they never made any money from it, and I doubt many people use it

[20:30:55]

EvilGuru:

but, saying that, I would pay for it so long as the feee was reasonable

[20:30:58]

justinh:

doubt many people use the xmltv feed?!

[20:31:06]

justinh:

good god

[20:31:22]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: yes and no, they don't provide the information in a digitally readable format otherwise so it wasn't competing with their core business and people scraping the website put a heavy load on their servers, so providing the data free of charge to non-commercial xmltv users actually saved them money

[20:31:27]

justinh:

zillions of people use it. people even bodge media center (sic) to use uk_rt

[20:31:47]

wagnerrp:

why would you make media center use RT?

[20:31:59]

justinh:

wagnerrp: because the MC guide data is er.. junk

[20:32:02]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: better data I'd bet

[20:32:04]

wagnerrp:

is it that much better than microsoft's feed that its worth the effort?

[20:32:10]

justinh:

oh yeah

[20:32:14]

stuartm:

RT data is excellent

[20:32:25]

EvilGuru:

stuartm: I was never around pre-xmltv, but I can not see scraping working out that well

[20:32:29]

justinh:

MC data is crap

[20:32:34]

stuartm:

damn, I'll miss the film reviews the most

[20:32:48]

EvilGuru:

surprised that they did not just firewall people scraping

[20:32:54]

justinh:

wonder if the feed is already down

[20:32:57]

wagnerrp:

EvilGuru: xmltv is largely scrapers

[20:33:18]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: all the same many people were scraping the site before that, which is what prompted RT to provide the xmltv feed in the first place

[20:33:33]

sphery:

yeah, time to expand SD :)

[20:33:39]

wagnerrp:

WHOOPS!

[20:33:41]

EvilGuru:

hmm, is that not a TOS violation of some sort?

[20:33:52]

justinh:

I say yeah expand SD, but lemme see how good the data is

[20:33:58]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: sure, but not everyone cares about those things

[20:34:01]

wagnerrp:

seems i get about 10 minutes of battery

[20:34:09]

wagnerrp:

i turned my laptop on, forgot to plug it in

[20:34:15]

wagnerrp:

"warning, battery level critical"

[20:34:32]

wagnerrp:

justinh: makes you wonder why people bother to rip off the MCE feed then

[20:34:52]

sphery:

wagnerrp: but in the US, the MCE feed is the same as the SD feed

[20:34:59]

stuartm:

sphery: if SD could work out a deal with the new owners then that would be brilliant, that said we don't even know if they will keep up the same high standards once they are no longer owned by the BBC

[20:35:01]

sphery:

in the UK, it may well be different source

[20:35:26]

EvilGuru:

that and we do not know how long it will be before the feed is cut

[20:35:27]

sphery:

and I say that the SD feed is great

[20:35:35]

justinh:

erm.. xmltv.radiotimes.com seems to be banjoed already

[20:35:36]

sphery:

(actually, IMHO, best in the world)

[20:35:41]

stuartm:

well, they do say you don't know what you've got till it's gone :(

[20:35:57]

stuartm:

sphery: second to RT maybe ;)

[20:36:06]

stuartm:

justinh: already??

[20:36:09]

sphery:

heh

[20:36:29]

stuartm:

justinh: nah, it's fine – http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/channels.dat

[20:36:45]

EvilGuru:

still working here

[20:36:46]

stuartm:

http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/92.dat

[20:36:56]

justinh:

I swear I tried that just now

[20:36:57]

EvilGuru:

if it is a small part of there business I doubt the new owners will notice

[20:37:09]

** stuartm runs mfdb just in case it disappears tomorrow morning **

[20:37:56]

justinh:

but on the plus side using EIT... are show times generally adjusted in a timely fashion?

[20:38:11]

justinh:

and when using EIT does myth wait for start marks etc?

[20:38:15]

stuartm:

of course it would happen at exactly the same time that I have to dump the program table because the switchover is happening here in the morning

[20:38:29]

justinh:

oo good luck with that

[20:38:31]

stuartm:

justinh: no to the latter

[20:38:36]

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[20:38:38]

EvilGuru:

stuartm: digital switchover?

[20:39:00]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: yeah, lots of stuff moving around as a result (apparently)

[20:39:08]

justinh:

darnit no freeview+ features yet? we need more UK devs

[20:39:23]

EvilGuru:

no idea when we are going here in London

[20:39:44]

justinh:

EvilGuru: before the limpicks innit

[20:39:49]

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[20:39:52]

stuartm:

justinh: Janne was going to implement it, but then he got interested in the playback side, then decoding and finally he left MythTV for ffmpeg

[20:40:06]

justinh:

wow. didn't know that

[20:40:18]

justinh:

which ffmpeg? ffmpeg or ffmpeg? ;-)

[20:40:37]

stuartm:

justinh: and stuarta has been too busy, especially since his son was born

[20:40:42]

EvilGuru:

At home I think we're going in Sept and getting freeview HD at the same time

[20:40:55]

wagnerrp:

justinh: reading through that article, im of mixed opinion on the sentence

[20:41:03]

justinh:

stuartm: bah, I know for a fact that there's naptimes dev work can be done ;)

[20:41:08]

stuartm:

justinh: he joined them before there was two and was seemingly a key figure in the coup

[20:41:19]

EvilGuru:

going to be fun explaining to the 'rents why their 'HD ready' TV is not capable of getting freeview HD

[20:41:35]

skd5aner:

VIVA LA REVOLICION!

[20:41:45]

wagnerrp:

justinh: i often wonder how many of these teenage miscreants could be 'fixed' by a good beating

[20:41:53]

justinh:

EvilGuru: just say 'ready to plug a new STB into'

[20:42:05]

wagnerrp:

beat on 'em a bit, give them time to rest, beat on 'em some more

[20:42:13]

skd5aner:

you talking about the rioters?

[20:42:15]

wagnerrp:

"how do you like riots now? going to do that again?"

[20:42:19]

EvilGuru:

wagnerrp: Police tried that with the student nutjobd

[20:42:46]

wagnerrp:

two facebook users sentenced to four years each for attempting to incite riots in other cities

[20:42:46]

EvilGuru:

*nutjobs last year

[20:42:50]

skd5aner:

"stupid kids – get off my burning lawn"

[20:43:10]

justinh:

glad I don't live near you guys. sheesh

[20:43:29]

stuartm:

justinh: heh, so I just read the article, they keep confusing Northwich and Norwich ... just a couple of hundred miles and an entire country between them

[20:43:34]

justinh:

you'll have folks who upset newbies on IRC up for hanging before I know where to look ;)

[20:43:59]

** EvilGuru would just hand out shotgun certificates with small business licenses **

[20:44:36]

wagnerrp:

EvilGuru: you joke, i know people who did that during the riots around here ~12yrs ago

[20:44:50]

wagnerrp:

no one ever bothered them

[20:45:04]

EvilGuru:

http://wotsat.techradar.com/news/free-gun-sat . . . usa-29-03-11

[20:46:03]

wagnerrp:

heh, what do you expect from montana

[20:46:53]

wagnerrp:

from a store called The Shack no less

[20:47:39]

skd5aner:

I hear they sell laptops there... and cell phones... and toy radio helicopters

[20:47:48]

justinh:

bah itsyost is down :-( Legal threats

[20:47:58]

wagnerrp:

toy radio helicopters, with guns strapped to them

[20:48:07]

justinh:

pew pew pew!

[20:48:11]

wagnerrp:

itsyost?

[20:48:47]

justinh:

wagnerrp: proxy site which filtered all the advertising from a certain newspaper's site

[20:49:03]

justinh:

thereby allowing readers to mock the content without making them any money

[20:49:05]

EvilGuru:

justinh: adblock will do that for all newspapers

[20:49:31]

ThisNewGuy:

hey all – does anyone know if season/episode is supposed to be populated in the oldrecorded table?

[20:49:34]

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[20:49:38]

skd5aner:

sigh... I guess I should start back up with the release notes... I'm 47 days behind in the commit logs :(

[20:50:25]

justinh:

stuartm: anyhoo, back to freeview+ stuff.. beeb guys sometimes pop into #mythtv & it's something I really want but I'm not sure any sane person wants me hacking in the recorder classes ;)

[20:50:35]

skd5aner:

ThisNewGuy: not in 0.24, not sure about the new metadata stuff

[20:51:04]

justinh:

I was thinking about going in there to do some more PID filtering though

[20:51:12]

ThisNewGuy:

skd5aner – I'm on a recent copy of master

[20:51:46]

skd5aner:

ThisNewGuy: does the schema have a column indicating it would be stored in that table?

[20:52:02]

wagnerrp:

justinh: who other than barrett comes into #mythtv?

[20:52:42]

justinh:

somebody called Dave I think

[20:53:16]

justinh:

anyway, for sure the guy who did the practical implementation of it for transmission. good person to have on side I figure

[20:53:17]

stuartm:

justinh: if I used EIT maybe I'd make the time to look at it

[20:53:47]

justinh:

it might not be too hard to do the wait for marker stuff

[20:53:58]

EvilGuru:

Be nice if myth could use EIT over xmltv if they should conflict

[20:54:07]

EvilGuru:

but otherwise just ignore the EIT stuff otherwise

[20:54:13]

stuartm:

Dave? Dave's boring, all he does is talk about the stuff the BBC did in the past

[20:54:23]

justinh:

no way to intermix em sadly

[20:54:36]

stuartm:

oh wait ... no that's the channel called Dave

[20:54:48]

justinh:

lol

[20:55:25]

EvilGuru:

does EIT work for DVB-S? as wasn't there some 'encryption' nonsense going around at some point

[20:55:27]

justinh:

ratsicles.. why can't I fix this NX DPI setting?

[20:55:40]

justinh:

EvilGuru: huffman encoding. simples

[20:56:13]

EvilGuru:

I guess it was just added to make dumb-as-a-stick execs happy?

[20:56:18]

justinh:

yup

[20:56:30]

justinh:

same for the HD on freeview apparently

[20:56:43]

EvilGuru:

I guess myth just takes care of it

[20:57:01]

stuartm:

actually, huffman isn't about encoding, it's about compression

[20:57:34]

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[20:58:09]

stuartm:

but spin at the time was that it was obfuscation to stop Sky users using the guide data

[20:58:47]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: and we decode/uncompress the huffman encoded EIT for Freesat

[20:59:23]

EvilGuru:

don't sky users get their own guide data from...somewhere

[20:59:43]

justinh:

yeah

[20:59:46]

justinh:

from Sky

[20:59:58]

justinh:

with Sky. ON SKY. Thanks to Sky. etc

[21:00:06]

ThisNewGuy:

skd5aner: it does – and the new inetref field seems to be populated but the season and episode fields are always 0

[21:00:11]

stuartm:

EvilGuru: for the channels they receive aye, but Freesat for a time offered some channels exclusively, but they were still FTA so sky users could manually enter the tuning details to recieve them

[21:00:13]

justinh:

I'd love digiguide to see sense actually

[21:00:22]

justinh:

their data is even better than RT

[21:00:41]

stuartm:

Freesat != Freesat from Sky – two entirely different products

[21:00:53]

justinh:

but they *still* argue that open source software opens the gates to people distributing the data

[21:01:49]

skd5aner:

ThisNewGuy: http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-fireho . . . /000854.html ?

[21:01:59]

j-rod is now known as j-rod|afk

[21:02:04]

stuartm:

so you sue commercial infringements

[21:02:30]

stuartm:

mythtv-firehose???

[21:03:13]

stuartm:

oh, right the unfiltered list, heh

[21:03:42]

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[21:05:57]

ThisNewGuy:

skd5aner: hmm – I wonder if the issue is that oldrecorded gets updated before the season/episode are set

[21:06:40]

skd5aner:

honestly, I have no idea... I just happened to stumble across that commit as I'm going through the july logs. I have not played with master, so I'm grabbing at straws :)

[21:08:30]

justinh:

stuartm: never before have I paid this much attention to detail in a theme. just moved a buttonlist one pixel to the left

[21:09:42]

justinh:

anyway that's still digiguide's argument for not allowing data export

[21:10:42]

dekarl:

hmm, has anybody played with feeding these Apple HTTP Live streams into the backend? e.g. NASA TV, they're MPEG2 TS with H.264, AAC, PAT and PMT supposedly... Streaming NASA TV in 720p30 would be "good enough" methinks.

[21:11:46]

justinh:

wagnerrp: re MCE guide data: http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_enter . . . /463052.aspx

[21:12:50]

justinh:

a guy at work was a 'fan' of MCE initially, til he'd used it a while & then found it recording lots & lots of repeat showings & very little new stuff

[21:13:56]

justinh:

hmmm. wondering now if digiguide get their data from the same place SD do

[21:13:59]

JEDIDIAH___:

TV anymore is kind of like that really.

[21:14:08]

JEDIDIAH___:

although Myth will just stop recording stuff.

[21:14:10]

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[21:14:24]

JEDIDIAH___:

(as it already has all of the lots of repeats and a few new things)

[21:15:13]

justinh:

digiguide's reviews are certainly very good indeed – or were when I was last a subscriber

[21:15:33]

justinh:

looks like the windows program now has a web service which some nasty program can rip into xml

[21:16:47]

justinh:

if only they had an API.. they're like a proper TV magazine in a lot of respects.. so you could say, set a rule in mythtv to record 'pick of the day' or whatever

[21:17:11]

justinh:

30 days' listings?! :-O

[21:17:43]

justinh:

hang on isn't there a binding to set a recording now?

[21:18:45]

justinh:

and er, "We can supply our TV listings data in just about any format you require; common formats include: XML, TSV and RTF" for 'publications'. Hmm

[21:19:48]

wagnerrp:

binding of what sort?

[21:20:13]

justinh:

perl or python.. thought I picked up from somewhere there was a schedule request thing

[21:20:31]

wagnerrp:

you can create new recording rules in the python bindings

[21:20:44]

wagnerrp:

or you can do it manually through database requests in the perl bindings

[21:22:34]

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[21:23:35]

justinh:

ah

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[21:38:04]

dekarl:

hmm, I get up to 28 days from one channel via EIT but only 21 days via the xmltv grabber. So the grabber never changes max(endtime). Would looking only at channels with an xmltvid set be an acceptable workaround? (I'm not sure how Schedules Direct works) http://pastebin.com/nwp8daVa <- proof of concept patch

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[22:15:19]

new_tolinux:

hi, anybody here?

[22:17:10]

EvilGuru:

new_tolinux: nope

[22:17:18]

new_tolinux:

*grin*

[22:17:50]

new_tolinux:

I have a very simple problem (I guess)..... how do I adjust volume in videos (not tv/recordings)

[22:18:19]

new_tolinux:

[] and F10-F11 don't do the trick

[22:18:33]

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[22:19:23]

new_tolinux:

I did try google, but it shows only a bunch of problems with livetv and that kind of things

[22:20:53]

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[22:23:24]

new_tolinux:

and I found a nice keylist.... which covers about everything but playing imported video files

[22:23:40]

wagnerrp:

the buttons are the same

[22:23:48]

wagnerrp:

because the player is the same

[22:24:05]

new_tolinux:

no... [ for example is lowering playspeed

[22:24:58]

wagnerrp:

then the same is the case for recorded video with your current key bindings

[22:24:58]

new_tolinux:

and ] is making it play faster

[22:25:01]

stuartm:

changing volume only works if MythTV is able to control the volume, it can't for things like digital audio

[22:25:11]

new_tolinux:

it's an avi

[22:25:31]

wagnerrp:

recordings and imported videos use the same internal player

[22:25:43]

wagnerrp:

so whatever the buttons do on one, they do on the other

[22:25:46]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: the key list he is working from is wrong

[22:25:56]

wagnerrp:

if the buttons dont match up to whatever the keylist you found

[22:25:59]

new_tolinux:

well, with recordings it work..... with live tv it works also.... but with imported avi it doesn't work

[22:26:07]

stuartm:

he's expecting [ ] to control volume because that's what the list says, but it's incorrect

[22:26:18]

wagnerrp:

then either you have changed them, or the defaults have changed since the list was written

[22:26:52]

new_tolinux:

30 minutes ago I was playing back a recorded program and it worked fine

[22:27:22]

new_tolinux:

it's just with the imported avi that it doesn't seem to work...

[22:27:41]

iamlindoro:

and by "imported" you mean in mythvideo?

[22:27:44]

wagnerrp:

in mythvideo setup, what player do you have set to use for imported videos?

[22:27:51]

iamlindoro:

and if so, then ^^ that

[22:27:59]

new_tolinux:

I mean simple copy/paste to /var/lib/mythtv/videos

[22:28:16]

iamlindoro:

we mean what portion of myth are you using to play it back

[22:28:31]

iamlindoro:

ie, you haven't inserted it into recordings, you are using the video library

[22:28:57]

new_tolinux:

it's a combined front-backend.... 0.21 / Ubuntu 9.04.... newer doesn't work with the input-card unfortunately

[22:29:28]

iamlindoro:

we're just looking for an answer to the questions asked, not the ones we don't ask ;)

[22:29:37]

iamlindoro:

Where are you going in MythTV to view your AVI

[22:30:04]

new_tolinux:

Media – Watch movies

[22:30:09]

iamlindoro:

oh, and you're on .21

[22:30:14]

iamlindoro:

meaning he's almost definitely set up with mplayer

[22:30:20]

new_tolinux:

or something, it's in Dutch here

[22:30:24]

iamlindoro:

since that was the mythvideo default for that version

[22:30:29]

wagnerrp:

in modern mythtv, 'Watch Videos' uses the Internal player

[22:30:40]

wagnerrp:

which means the key bindings are identical for videos and recordings

[22:30:41]

iamlindoro:

so the reason mythtv keybindings aren't working for you is because you're not using mythtv to play them

[22:31:05]

wagnerrp:

right, the key bindings are whatever the external application you are using requires

[22:31:10]

wagnerrp:

which as mentioned, is likely mplayer

[22:31:10]

new_tolinux:

ah.... ok.... yet it makes sense.... also, I should look for the keybindings for mplayer

[22:31:28]

wagnerrp:

or you could switch it to 'Internal'

[22:31:30]

new_tolinux:

also, not such a bad thing that I mentioned the version after all *grin*

[22:31:53]

new_tolinux:

erm... and how do I do that?

[22:32:02]

wagnerrp:

in the setup options in mythvideo

[22:32:11]

new_tolinux:

front or backend

[22:32:21]

wagnerrp:

mythvideo only exists on the frontend

[22:32:27]

new_tolinux:

ok

[22:32:42]

wagnerrp:

note that the internal player is very much improved in recent versions of mythtv

[22:32:56]

wagnerrp:

older version may not support various formats you may want to use as well

[22:33:05]

wagnerrp:

which is why older versions defaulted to mplayer

[22:33:16]

new_tolinux:

default program-command is "mplayer -fs -zoom -quiet -vo xv %s"

[22:33:36]

new_tolinux:

DVD-play-command: Internal

[22:34:02]

new_tolinux:

and for VCD: mplayer vcd:// -cdrom-device %d -fs -zoom -vo xv

[22:34:22]

new_tolinux:

also.... changing the first one to just "Internal" should do the trick?

[22:34:55]

wagnerrp:

changing the first one to Internal will make the internal player default

[22:35:15]

wagnerrp:

the only reason a tuner card should fail to operate with a newer version of mythtv

[22:35:27]

wagnerrp:

is either a driver regression, which we have no control over and should be reported to linuxtv

[22:35:40]

wagnerrp:

or if youre using something like a dreambox or matrox card, for which support has been removed

[22:36:12]

new_tolinux:

the card is a Pinnacle PCTV Rage, and it works in newer versions of ubuntu with tvtime, but not with mythbuntu..... I tried to solve that here before

[22:36:38]

wagnerrp:

any card that works in tvtime should work with the V4L input in mythtv

[22:37:28]

new_tolinux:

last time I told you that you just suggested me to buy a new one because it would make too much of a hassle to get it work

[22:37:44]

wagnerrp:

depending on your kernel version, you may have run into the issue with V4L1 support being removed from the kernel

[22:37:58]

wagnerrp:

yes, and i would have given you the same advice when using it with mythtv 0.21

[22:38:28]

new_tolinux:

but unfortunately, I'm more or less stuck with 9.04 since I can only upgrade to 9.10, which isn't supported anymore, so I more or less can't upgrade at all

[22:39:36]

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[22:40:12]

new_tolinux:

v4l1? are there different versions of it? I might have guessed that since mythtv 0.24 still offers v4l as a video-source that it would have the necessary packages onboard

[22:40:42]

wagnerrp:

V4L1 is the old API, V4L2 is the new API

[22:40:54]

wagnerrp:

both mythtv and the linux kernel have supported both for many years

[22:41:07]

wagnerrp:

V4L1 support was finally removed from the kernel in 2.6.38

[22:41:42]

wagnerrp:

support for the old API was not removed until all existing drivers had been migrated to the new API

[22:41:47]

new_tolinux:

but... doesn't that mean that tvtime should not display anything either?

[22:42:01]

wagnerrp:

tvtime is also capable of using the V4L2 API

[22:42:25]

new_tolinux:

yes... but like I said, in the newer versions tvtime does work... just mythbuntu doesn't work with the card

[22:43:03]

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[22:43:17]

wagnerrp:

is that mythtv is not working?

[22:43:26]

wagnerrp:

or the kernel you get with mythbuntu does not support that card?

[22:43:37]

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[22:44:05]

new_tolinux:

with mythbuntu 10.04 (ubuntu 10.04 + mythtv 0.23 I guess) tvtime does work, mythtv doesn't..... card gets recognized, but it only displays snow

[22:44:42]

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[22:44:49]

new_tolinux:

with mythbuntu 11.04 (ubuntu 11.04 + mythtv 0.24?) same story

[22:45:26]

wagnerrp:

this is analog tuning or analog capture?

[22:46:02]

new_tolinux:

I have no idea.... there's a coax-cable in the back which has about 20 channels at the moment..... the rest is done by the card

[22:46:45]

wagnerrp:

i mean... are you using the tuner, or one of the baseband capture inputs

[22:46:52]

wagnerrp:

coaxial means the tuner

[22:47:30]

new_tolinux:

ok

[22:48:38]

new_tolinux:

but like I said.... the problem with newer versions is that mythv just does not find any channels and when I put them there manually, they only display snow..... although tvtime does find every channel that is there and displays the channel instead of snow

[22:49:39]

justinh:

that's the problem with analogue TV, see. it kinda depends on you selecting all the right stuff in mythtv-setup (and every other kind of teevees really)

[22:49:40]

new_tolinux:

which makes me think that something broke in mythtv 0.22 and was never fixed.... but that's probably too easy *grin*

[22:49:58]

justinh:

wrong tv standard, wrong frequency table...

[22:50:06]

new_tolinux:

hmm.... it works out-of-the-box in 0.21 when the updates are done

[22:50:18]

justinh:

and analogue scanning was broken in 0.2something or other

[22:50:23]

justinh:

but was later fixed

[22:50:35]

wagnerrp:

plenty of people still using analog framegrabbers in 0.24

[22:50:40]

wagnerrp:

even though we urge them not to

[22:51:06]

new_tolinux:

but then, why does 0.24 not work for me, although the setup in mythtv-backend are exactly the same

[22:51:08]

justinh:

if I submitted a patch to remove support... ? ;-)

[22:51:29]

wagnerrp:

they only reason they would be able to and you not is either misconfiguration on your part, or your driver has some weird quirk that causes problems with mythtv

[22:51:45]

justinh:

hence the 'Rage' in the product name

[22:51:59]

new_tolinux:

hmmz.... that could be the problem

[22:51:59]

wagnerrp:

whether that quirk would be your driver or mythtv no conforming properly to the V4L interface, i couldnt say

[22:52:11]

new_tolinux:

it is actually recognized as "PCTV Stereo" by mythtv

[22:52:14]

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[22:52:23]

justinh:

mythtv doesn' recognise any tuners

[22:52:31]

justinh:

not as such

[22:52:40]

justinh:

it doesn't detect anything, nor 'recognise;

[22:52:40]

new_tolinux:

well, it does display a card in the backend-setup

[22:52:48]

justinh:

the user points it at likely capture cards

[22:53:10]

justinh:

and the list of said devices is gleaned from whatever is reported via the API etc

[22:53:36]

justinh:

so if the name is different to what you might expect, that's not mythtv's responsibility

[22:53:57]

new_tolinux:

it reports here: Pinnacle PCTV Stereo (saa7134)

[22:54:17]

new_tolinux:

although it's actually a PCTV Rave (not the PCTV Stereo) it does work

[22:54:33]

justinh:

you say it 'works' outside mythtv, but is that to mean it works right now when mythtv isn't running (i.e. mythbackend) ?

[22:54:52]

new_tolinux:

it is working right now in mythtv 0.21

[22:55:05]

new_tolinux:

in newer versions, it only works outside mythtv

[22:55:13]

justinh:

on the same version of linux?

[22:55:47]

new_tolinux:

no.... mythbuntu 9.04 is ubuntu 9.04 + mythtv 0.21..... mythbuntu 10.04 = ubuntu 10.04 + mythtv 0.2x

[22:56:10]

justinh:

so if you've ruled out the v4l API 2.0 vs 1.0 thing all bets are pretty much off & you're limited to A) hard work finding out what's wrong .. or B) using older mythtv or c) GET A PROPER TUNER CARD :-)

[22:56:20]

justinh:

oh dear God

[22:56:23]

justinh:

that isn't the same thing

[22:56:28]

justinh:

different kernels & all sorts

[22:56:46]

new_tolinux:

yes.... but working outside mythtv....

[22:57:00]

justinh:

so?

[22:57:16]

justinh:

that doesn't prove mythtv is broken either way

[22:57:19]

new_tolinux:

tvtime does scan the channels... does display the channels.... does display the programs.... also, the card seems to be supported in ubuntu 10.04 and 11.04

[22:57:53]

new_tolinux:

only mythtv does not display anything other than snow..... although it "detects" the card the same as it does in 0.21

[22:58:00]

justinh:

you'd have a nasty job on your hand proving what's wrong here

[22:58:15]

justinh:

it does NOT 'detect' *anything* how many more times?

[22:58:40]

new_tolinux:

well, it displays "Pinnacle PCTV Stereo (saa7134)" in any version I've tried

[22:58:48]

justinh:

that means very little

[22:58:49]

new_tolinux:

and in any version, tvtime works

[22:59:34]

justinh:

what *has* likely changed between mythtv versions, is a number of default settings which you never had to look at before, but miraculously don't come as working defaults now. I dunno, I've not used analogue for a long time now

[23:00:26]

justinh:

frequency tables are likely to mess stuff up if you select the wrong one

[23:00:38]

justinh:

as is the tv standard/region

[23:00:58]

new_tolinux:

I tried every version multiple times to make sure I didn't overlook anything

[23:01:00]

justinh:

that TV time just gets it right by default is of no matter

[23:01:16]

justinh:

not that it ever did, in my experience :)

[23:01:30]

new_tolinux:

it is.... since channel-scanning in versions above 0.21 seems to find nothing

[23:01:55]

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[23:01:55]

wagnerrp:

yes, the scanner was rewritten in 0.22

[23:02:05]

wagnerrp:

and analog scanning was not complete by the time it was released

[23:02:10]

justinh:

so what *are* you putting into mythtv-setup in terms of region/frequency table etc?

[23:02:12]

new_tolinux:

yes.... and at least for me still broken in 0.24

[23:02:12]

wagnerrp:

analog scanning should work fine in 0.23 and 0.24

[23:03:05]

new_tolinux:

the information the cable provider gives ofcourse

[23:03:10]

wagnerrp:

have you filed any tickets?

[23:03:14]

new_tolinux:

frequencies in kHZ

[23:03:35]

justinh:

the information the cable provider gives ofcourse.. MEANING?

[23:03:40]

new_tolinux:

ofcourse not.... hence my name ;) I most likely overlook something somewhere

[23:04:05]

justinh:

I mean what do you enter in the freq. table field & so on?

[23:04:18]

justinh:

you know, in relation to where in the world you live etc

[23:04:42]

justinh:

just coming in here saying "help, it no worky" isn't much to go on to get people helping here

[23:05:02]

new_tolinux:

chanid = 1001

[23:05:05]

new_tolinux:

channum = 1

[23:05:05]

new_tolinux:

freqid = 184000

[23:05:05]

new_tolinux:

sourceid = 1

[23:05:05]

new_tolinux:

callsign = NED1

[23:05:05]

new_tolinux:

name = Nederland 1

[23:05:09]

justinh:

sigh

[23:05:24]

justinh:

the default settings are not europe-friendly

[23:05:30]

new_tolinux:

that's the working config here in 0.21

[23:05:33]

justinh:

so that could be the first place you go wrong

[23:05:44]

justinh:

never mind what's in the channel table

[23:05:49]

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[23:06:04]

new_tolinux:

well, I am sure it was always set to europe-west when scanning....

[23:06:13]

justinh:

you're supposed to enter the correct kind of information earlier than that :)

[23:06:19]

justinh:

so check

[23:06:48]

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[23:06:50]

justinh:

also check you selected PAL, or the right variant of it

[23:07:10]

new_tolinux:

yes, it can be setup before even setting up the card.... and I set it to PAL-BG and europe-west there.....

[23:07:22]

justinh:

defaults can change, so where you previously may not have had to do anything...

[23:07:42]

justinh:

be sure you did. you know, simple stuff first

[23:08:09]

new_tolinux:

the only thing I can think of is something in a vague configuration-file.... the backend-options were setup every time as they are yet working in 0.21

[23:08:25]

justinh:

there are no configuration files

[23:08:36]

justinh:

everything setting-wise is in the database

[23:09:14]

new_tolinux:

which should mean that if I did a complete mythconverge-backup and reinstall 11.04 it should just work

[23:09:23]

new_tolinux:

or is that too simple

[23:09:46]

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[23:10:23]

new_tolinux:

ubuntu 11.04 that is with (I guess) mythtv 0.24

[23:10:25]

justinh:

possibly

[23:11:19]

new_tolinux:

hmmz... well.... since I have a tar-backup of the complete system yet, it's probably worth a try

[23:13:24]

new_tolinux:

although I don't really care about the old-versions-are-unsafe-because-vulnerable-to-attacks (since it's just a recording machine *grins*) it's always nice to have it a bit up-to-date....

[23:21:07]

new_tolinux:

ok... mythbuntu 11.04 cd is in there yet..... and by the way, changing to "Internal" instead of mplayer did make the keyboard-shortcuts work as expected

[23:22:02]

new_tolinux:

I guess I better grab a new beer since this is probably going to take a while *lol*

[23:24:07]

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[23:25:49]

new_tolinux:

what should I do best: try to upgrade to 11.04 or just do a fresh install..... since upgrading maybe keeps things working, but is also known to produce a lot of problems sometimes

[23:27:22]

new_tolinux:

hmm... lets give the update a try first.... a clean install can be done later.... when needed

[23:40:21]

sphery:

new_tolinux: if nothing else, for the safety of your mythtv data, I /highly/ recommend a DB backup: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore

[23:42:07]

justinh:

oh yeah without question backing up the db is a tip-top idea

[23:42:33]

new_tolinux:

thanks, I did a phpmyadmin-export just before putting the CD in.... and I have a tar-backup of the complete system which is just a few days old (by: tar cvpzf backup.tgz --exclude=/proc --exclude=/lost+found --exclude=/backup.tgz --exclude=/mnt --exclude=/sys / as found on the ubuntu-forums)

[23:43:45]

new_tolinux:

although I'm no hero in linux, my job was to run keep complete networks up and running.... so that part was taken care of

[23:45:42]

justinh:

so even if a successful scan from a previous version can be imported into a newer version of mythtv via a restore/upgrade path there's still no determining the cause

[23:46:22]

new_tolinux:

hmm.... a first quick peek did tell me that mythtv said "no capture cards are configured"

[23:46:29]

justinh:

I don't have a framegrabber card to test analogue scanning. I had a ceremony :D

[23:46:46]

justinh:

not that we even have any analogue TV around here anymore

[23:47:09]

new_tolinux:

also, it seems that although it said to upgrade, it didn't, it just put a new OS there

[23:48:18]

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[23:48:21]

new_tolinux:

I see tvtime isn't there anymore.... I see phpmyadmin was removed either.....

[23:48:45]

justinh:

you know you don't have to upgrade distro to get a newer mythtv all the time don't you?

[23:49:38]

new_tolinux:

yes, in the newer versions there's an option in the mythtv setup..... but in 0.21 I didn't found it

[23:49:59]

justinh:

it's never been in mythtv-setup

[23:50:13]

justinh:

maybe in the mythbuntu-control thingy

[23:50:15]

new_tolinux:

I see the "upgrade" did even clean out the mount-points which were in /etc/fstab

[23:50:34]

** justinh goes to bed **

[23:50:36]

new_tolinux:

I can tell you now, since I set it up in English to make it easier

[23:50:53]

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[23:50:53]

new_tolinux:

it is called "Mythbuntu Control Centre"

[23:51:15]

new_tolinux:

hmm ok, well, I guess I have to wait at least another few updates, but goodnight

[23:52:51]

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