Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, August 15th, 2011, 00:07 UTC

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k-man:

is it just me or does the Apple Time Capsule seem outrageously expensive?

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dewman:

sphery, so I have this huge list of stuff showing up for autoexpire...Some of it is from 2010.....Is that normal?

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sphery:

dewman: yep, if you have enough space to house it on your system

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dewman:

ahhh.....so if I really wanted to purge all of those shows, I could bump the freespace that I require myth to have. IE instead of 2 gigs, I could bump it to say 100 gigs

[01:06:58]

dewman:

err, actually now that I look at it more like 500 gigs

[01:08:31]

dewman:

i'm guessing there is no way to force the autoexpire to start?

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[01:11:22]

dewman:

ahh, i see deleted max age in the wiki..

[01:11:25]

sphery:

autoexpire only actually deletes things when you're recording onto a full file system

[01:11:36]

sphery:

if you want to delete a bunch of stuff, you should just do it from watch recordings

[01:11:59]

sphery:

you can add a whole group to a playlist, then delete the whole playlist

[01:12:12]

sphery:

deleted max age deletes deleted shows

[01:12:35]

dewman:

and thats what I have, alot of deleted shows.

[01:12:36]

sphery:

if you want to delete all deleted shows, go to watch recordings, menu|change group filter, then select Deleted

[01:12:48]

sphery:

then menu|add this group to playlist, then menu|playlist options|delete

[01:13:08]

dewman:

ok, that makes sense now....

[01:13:22]

sphery:

yeah, basically, if you delete a deleted show, it removes it from disk

[01:13:32]

sphery:

like deleting something from recycle bin or whatever

[01:13:56]

dewman:

whats recycle bin? lol

[01:14:31]

sphery:

heh, used by a semi-popular os

[01:14:48]

dewman:

o.. i dont use "that"

[01:14:56]

dewman:

;-)

[01:15:06]

sphery:

yeah, makes 2 of us

[01:19:20]

wagnerrp:

but apparently you still use their concept of a recycling bin

[01:19:41]

sphery:

heh, thought maybe it would be more recognizable

[01:20:10]

sphery:

I said, "or whatever," too, so it could be like the Mac OS trash can

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k-man:

which theme is considered the most complete?

[01:28:24]

wagnerrp:

probably arclight

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k-man:

thanks wagnerrp

[01:39:57]

k-man:

did you see some discussions on the users mailing list, some people saying they have been having backend instability?

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wagnerrp:

yes, there are always people having backend instability

[01:40:44]

k-man:

so you think its them, not mythtv?

[01:40:51]

wagnerrp:

which is downright odd since ive been running unstable since 0.21 and have had all of maybe three backend crashes

[01:41:08]

wagnerrp:

i wonder sometimes...

[01:41:21]

k-man:

hehe

[01:41:57]

k-man:

I used to have a lot of problems with empty recording files

[01:42:02]

k-man:

or 0 size files I should say

[01:42:16]

wagnerrp:

0B files used to be a lot more common

[01:42:17]

k-man:

but I am positive that was due to poor reception and poor DVB-t tuners

[01:42:20]

wagnerrp:

i havent seen one of those in ages

[01:42:56]

k-man:

when I moved house, and got a proper antenna put in, and got an HDHR, the problems went away for me

[01:43:19]

wagnerrp:

yeah, my problems were generally do to the cable company doing funky things with digital broadcasts

[01:43:25]

k-man:

I did also used to have backend hangs, but I think they were due to poor USB bus or tuner

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Statts:

hi all, anyone using a PlayTV for tuning here?

[03:55:42]

mycosys:

NOT YET – GOT A COUPLE ON ORDER

[03:55:55]

mycosys:

why do you ask Statts

[03:56:17]

Statts:

just wondering if anyone has cracked one open

[03:56:29]

Statts:

was thinking of trying it and mounting it inside my HTPC case

[03:56:31]

mycosys:

think so

[03:56:42]

Statts:

they're as light as all get-out

[03:56:43]

mycosys:

i would leave it in its case if you did

[03:56:48]

Statts:

so don't think there is much inside

[03:56:54]

mycosys:

the case is metal – will sheild it a bit

[03:57:07]

Statts:

the case is plastic

[03:57:18]

Statts:

oh

[03:57:24]

Statts:

I see what you mean

[03:57:37]

Statts:

shouldn't matter, I will run the antenna cable into the case

[03:58:16]

clever:

the RF noise from the motherboard itself, is contained by the computer case

[03:58:40]

Statts:

what about normal PCI-e tuners then?

[03:59:16]

clever:

those are designed with extra shielding on the board, in the sensitive areas

[03:59:23]

Statts:

ok

[03:59:56]

clever:

if you leave the external tuner in its original box, it may not be an issue

[04:00:01]

mycosys:

the only real advantage of a usb tuner is you can locate them remote from interference, and make the aerial cable a bit shorter too

[04:00:04]

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[04:00:27]

mycosys:

my understanding was the PAL playtv was in a metal case

[04:01:41]

Statts:

mycosys, I have one in my hand

[04:01:44]

Statts:

it is plastic

[04:01:48]

mycosys:

buggere

[04:02:22]

mycosys:

as i said – i had been told it was a metal case, painted or whatever

[04:02:32]

mycosys:

alloy so very light iirc

[04:02:48]

Statts:

looks and feels like ABS to me

[04:03:02]

Statts:

whole thing weighs about 150gm

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[04:12:04]

mycosys:

bugger

[04:15:08]

Statts:

ok, installed the tuner, now to try to get my head around mythtv-setup

[04:16:02]

[R]:

oh man, i'm watching hd content over composite stretched... its making me want to cry

[04:24:54]

Statts:

I *think* I've done all I need in mythtv-setup

[04:25:24]

Statts:

However, under Capture Cards, my Frontend ID is ERROR_OPEN

[04:25:28]

Statts:

what does this mean?

[04:26:06]

[R]:

do you have perms to the device node?

[04:27:11]

Statts:

sorry, not up with the linux lingo, still learning

[04:28:37]

[R]:

using mythtv requires linux knowledge

[04:28:39]

[R]:

maybe you should work on that first

[04:29:25]

Statts:

sorry to bother you.

[04:38:25]

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erik___:

need help mapping a hdhome-config scan to myth-converg channel and dtvmuliplex table entries

[04:47:52]

erik___:

serviceid is the one i really confused on where this comes from

[04:48:59]

[R]:

i dont see a serviceid column in my dtvmultiplex

[04:49:43]

[R]:

oh, i see that in the channels table

[04:49:55]

[R]:

thats the subchannel number

[04:52:34]

erik___:

SCANNING: 645000000 (us-cable:94, us-irc:94) LOCK: qam256 (ss=95 snq=100 seq=100) PROGRAM: 201: 201 CBSHD PROGRAM: 207: 207 CIUHD PROGRAM: 208: 208 IONHD

[04:52:57]

erik___:

is 94 the service id?

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[R]:

94 is the channel

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[R]:

look on the silicondust website

[04:54:26]

[R]:

they list all the channels and subchannels and what the yare

[04:55:13]

erik___:

[04:55:41]

erik___:

this is my dtv_multiplex entry

[04:55:47]

[R]:

yeah, that tells me nothing

[04:55:59]

[R]:

i told you how to solve your problem

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erik___:

been reading the developer api there

[04:58:04]

wagnerrp:

erik___: what exactly are you trying to accomplish?

[04:59:11]

erik___:

just got a hdhomerun and mythtv i think only has a subset of the channels

[04:59:24]

erik___:

get allot of no lock isssue

[04:59:28]

erik___:

this is cable

[04:59:57]

erik___:

i have about 30 cables channels on 3 frequencies

[05:00:03]

wagnerrp:

what version?

[05:00:09]

erik___:

hdconfig-scan finds more

[05:00:24]

wagnerrp:

(of mythtv)

[05:01:15]

erik___:

but when i try to add the other channels to the database, they do not obtain locks

[05:01:32]

erik___:

cable provider is going for a to d

[05:02:18]

wagnerrp:

just because a channel shows up in the scan does not mean its actually usable

[05:02:29]

wagnerrp:

it may be encrypted, it may be a null channel

[05:02:54]

wagnerrp:

VOD channels are often transmitted unencrypted

[05:02:55]

erik___:

understand that, looking to get the ota channels

[05:03:02]

erik___:

think myth 20

[05:03:26]

wagnerrp:

but if no one is using them, there will be a stream descriptor, but no stream to use

[05:03:37]

wagnerrp:

any of your OTA channels should be named

[05:03:46]

wagnerrp:

like CBSHD, CIUHD, IONHD

[05:03:56]

[R]:

0.20!?

[05:04:03]

wagnerrp:

anything that is not named will be hit or miss for using them

[05:04:17]

wagnerrp:

mythbackend --version

[05:04:50]

erik___:

SCANNING: 645000000 (us-cable:94, us-irc:94) LOCK: qam256 (ss=95 snq=100 seq=100) PROGRAM: 201: 201 CBSHD PROGRAM: 207: 207 CIUHD PROGRAM: 208: 208 IONHD

[05:05:36]

erik___:

can not get myth to lock on this freq

[05:06:19]

wagnerrp:

what version of mythtv are you running?

[05:07:09]

wagnerrp:

mythtv periodically updates its internal version of the hdhomerun libs against upstream

[05:07:28]

wagnerrp:

and at some point in the past, there was an issue with their command line application and library that it was not returning all results

[05:07:46]

erik___:

[05:07:47]

wagnerrp:

if youre using an old version, you may be able to resolve the issue by simply upgrading

[05:08:29]

erik___:

my apt-get messed up and locked

[05:08:51]

wagnerrp:

what does apt-get have anything to do with?

[05:08:56]

erik___:

dependency libc deadlocks of sorts

[05:09:08]

erik___:

that is how i would upgrade

[05:09:22]

erik___:

not a strong linux person

[05:09:24]

wagnerrp:

i just want to know what youre currently running

[05:09:27]

wagnerrp:

'mythbackend --version'

[05:10:07]

erik___:

root@mythtv:~# mythbackend --version Library API version : 0.20.20070821–1 Source code version : 14463M SVN Branch : branches/release-0-20-fixes Options compiled in : linux release using_xvmcw using_v4l using_oss using_alsa using_arts using_jack using_ivtv using_firewire using_dbox2 using_hdhr using_ip_rec using_freebox using_live using_lirc using_joystick_menu using_dvb using_x11 using_xv using_xrand

[05:10:15]

wagnerrp:

wow

[05:10:25]

wagnerrp:

you really are running 0.20

[05:10:50]

erik___:

have not really touched the box in a few years, its works

[05:11:12]

[R]:

haha

[05:11:46]

erik___:

schedules direct and a dead mboard have been my only two real issues

[05:12:10]

wagnerrp:

schedules direct is a pretty big issue

[05:12:19]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is of little worth without guide data

[05:12:36]

erik___:

long live zipzap

[05:12:46]

wagnerrp:

zap2it?

[05:12:51]

erik___:

yes

[05:13:05]

wagnerrp:

zap2it labs shut down years ago

[05:13:26]

erik___:

yes, that is when i did my last upgrade

[05:13:50]

wagnerrp:

so youre actually running 0.20.2

[05:14:00]

erik___:

yes

[05:14:14]

erik___:

knopix myth r5f27

[05:14:22]

wagnerrp:

ok, i thought you meant you were running without guide data all this time

[05:15:33]

erik___:

no, i do the schedules direct

[05:16:08]

wagnerrp:

anyway, i would try upgrading to 0.24 before digging any further

[05:16:16]

wagnerrp:

actually, i would upgrade anyway for mutlirec support

[05:16:45]

wagnerrp:

(multiple simultaneous recordings from each tuner)

[05:17:16]

erik___:

i bought some new hardware but think i am going to return it

[05:17:38]

erik___:

got a nvida chipset, brought it home and it had only a vga port

[05:18:13]

erik___:

if i have to get a video card, i might as well go with a new mboard then

[05:18:21]

wagnerrp:

nvidia hasnt offered vga-only hardware since the 5-series

[05:18:24]

erik___:

thinking about this: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_res . . . l?sku=102772

[05:19:10]

wagnerrp:

should work fine

[05:19:15]

erik___:

then get a low end nvidia card with svideo and hdmi out

[05:19:25]

wagnerrp:

do you need digital or analog tv outputs?

[05:19:39]

erik___:

currently anlog, going digital soon

[05:19:56]

wagnerrp:

if you need analog, get an nvidia 8 or 9 series card

[05:20:02]

wagnerrp:

the newer ones dont have analog outputs

[05:20:26]

erik___:

think i have series 6 now

[05:20:29]

erik___:

or 4

[05:21:13]

erik___:

not sure it buys much as the pvr-150 and pvr-250 are hardware based

[05:21:30]

wagnerrp:

what do you mean?

[05:21:32]

Statts:

can someone explain how to check/change permissions for a usb tuner?

[05:21:48]

wagnerrp:

ls -l /path/to/device/node

[05:22:30]

erik___:

back in the day nvidia and myth where hyping some api that never seemed to work for me

[05:22:43]

Statts:

path to node can be found with lsusb/

[05:22:44]

erik___:

to bypass the cpu

[05:22:44]

Statts:

?

[05:22:47]

wagnerrp:

are you talking about xvmc?

[05:22:54]

erik___:

yep that is it

[05:22:56]

wagnerrp:

xvmc was never 'hyped'

[05:23:08]

wagnerrp:

it was something to be avoided, unless your CPU could not otherwise handle the video

[05:23:41]

wagnerrp:

it has long since been abandoned by nvidia, and now by mythtv as well

[05:23:47]

erik___:

i thought it was free the cpu

[05:23:55]

wagnerrp:

no, it was only partial offload

[05:23:56]

wagnerrp:

not full

[05:23:56]

erik___:

explains why it did not work

[05:24:06]

wagnerrp:

and it added some severe restrictions on the OSD

[05:24:12]

wagnerrp:

and it only ever worked for mpeg2

[05:24:14]

erik___:

also i had a via based chipset as well

[05:25:05]

Statts:

ID 1415:0003 Nam Tai E&E Products Ltd. or OmniVision Technologies, Inc. <---- PlayTV?

[05:26:56]

[R]:

the animation on Archer is pretty interesting

[05:27:44]

wagnerrp:

did they start back up?

[05:27:55]

[R]:

i dunno, i think im watching old second season

[05:28:15]

[R]:

march 2011

[05:28:28]

[R]:

they only had 1st season on netflix

[05:36:09]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[05:37:55]

erik___:

thanks for the help calling it a night

[05:38:25]

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[05:47:48]

Statts:

[R], from what I read, it seemed I needed to add mythtv to the video usergroup

[05:48:02]

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[05:48:06]

Statts:

$ sudo usermod -a -G video mythtv

[05:48:22]

Statts:

but still getting ERROR_OPEN for Frontend ID under Capture Cards

[05:48:41]

[R]:

you need to logout after changing groups

[05:49:49]

Statts:

ah, thanks

[05:55:35]

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[05:56:34]

Statts_a:

ok rebooted, will see now, [R]

[05:58:00]

Statts_a:

excellent, taht work

[05:58:05]

Statts_a:

scanning for channels now

[05:58:28]

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[06:00:49]

Statts_a:

joy was short lived

[06:00:55]

Statts_a:

all time outs and no channels found

[06:03:32]

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[06:03:33]

brockp:

0.671

[06:04:15]

brockp:

Where does the file themedummy.c come from? looking at plugin docs and I don't find it on my ubuntu install of 0.24 fixes?

[06:12:31]

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[06:23:46]

justinh:

surprised, and even amazed anything involving Omnivision is V4L compliant

[06:25:36]

Statts_a:

anyone able to help? I -believe- I have setup everything correctly in mythtv-setup, but all I get is 'Timed out: no signal' and Timed out: no channels'

[06:25:45]

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[06:28:45]

[R]:

wtf, there is a show called "Extreme Couponing"

[06:29:12]

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[06:29:17]

[R]:

how is that even possible

[06:29:22]

[R]:

hujndreds of dollars of stuff

[06:29:26]

[R]:

and the total was $0 after coupons

[06:30:09]

Statts_a:

any ideas, [R] ?

[06:30:20]

[R]:

"all i get" tells us absolutely NOTHING

[06:30:54]

k-man:

Statts_a, what sort of card are you using?

[06:30:57]

Statts_a:

every channel scanned shows up either of those two

[06:31:04]

Statts_a:

k-man, Sony PlayTV

[06:31:07]

Statts_a:

DVB-T

[06:31:17]

k-man:

Statts_a, have you tried tuning and receiving outside of mythtv?

[06:31:35]

k-man:

I would start there and make sure the device works before attempting to get mythtv to talk to it

[06:33:15]

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[06:33:29]

Statts_a:

ok, I'll try that

[06:33:46]

Statts_a:

anyone know if windows 7 media center has drivers for it?

[06:34:29]

[R]:

if something works in windows it means nothing about it working in linux

[06:34:48]

k-man:

Statts_a, are you doing this under linux?

[06:35:43]

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[06:35:49]

Statts_a:

yes, machine is running xbmc-live (ubuntu 10.04)

[06:37:05]

k-man:

Statts_a, have you read this page? http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Sony_PlayTV_dual_tuner_DVB-T

[06:37:55]

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[06:38:25]

Statts_a:

have read that now

[06:38:31]

Statts_a:

$ sudo usermod -a -G video mythtv

[06:38:33]

Statts_a:

oops

[06:38:38]

Statts_a:

Supported in kernel since 2.6.30

[06:38:45]

Statts_a:

means the drivers are pre-loaded?

[06:38:49]

k-man:

what kernel are you running?

[06:38:52]

k-man:

uname -a

[06:39:17]

Statts_a:

Linux 192-168-1–7 2.6.32-29-generic #58-Ubuntu SMP Fri Feb 11 19:00:09 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux

[06:39:39]

k-man:

well, I guess it should have the drivers included then

[06:39:57]

Statts_a:

the card picks up no problems, i can select it in Capture Cards

[06:40:13]

k-man:

do you have the firmware installed?

[06:40:21]

k-man:

in /lib/firmware as per that page?

[06:41:03]

k-man:

Statts_a, imho, you should attempt to tune and watch TV outside of mythtv before trying in mythtv

[06:41:14]

Statts_a:

yes, i do

[06:41:33]

k-man:

mythtv just adds a layer of complexity that you don't neeed until you know the tuner is working

[06:41:37]

Statts_a:

i dont really have any non-windows way of tuning outside of mythtv

[06:41:58]

k-man:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Tzap

[06:42:28]

k-man:

you do now :)

[06:42:35]

Statts_a:

thanks

[06:44:00]

Statts_a:

Package dvb-utils is not available, but is referred to by another package.

[06:44:24]

Statts_a:

oh its already installed?

[06:44:30]

k-man:

no idea

[06:44:35]

k-man:

I don't use ubuntu

[06:44:45]

k-man:

but apt-file search tzap might help you locate the package

[06:45:24]

k-man:

I seem to recall having a similar problem finding the tzap package in debian, but that was so many years ago I don't remember now

[06:45:27]

Statts_a:

apt-file command not found

[06:45:41]

k-man:

apt-get install apt-file; apt-file update

[06:46:22]

k-man:

this will also be of use to you i expect: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Dvbscan

[06:47:21]

Statts_a:

thanks

[06:49:06]

Statts_a:

$ apt-file search tzap

[06:49:06]

Statts_a:

dvb-apps: /usr/bin/tzap

[06:49:16]

k-man:

apt-get install dvb-apps

[06:50:22]

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[06:51:51]

Statts_a:

$ sudo dvbscan

[06:51:51]

Statts_a:

Could not open scan file (null)

[06:51:52]

Statts_a:

hrmm

[06:52:09]

Statts_a:

$ sudo dvbscan

[06:52:09]

Statts_a:

Could not open scan file (null)

[06:52:12]

Statts_a:

feck

[06:52:21]

Statts_a:

"To find a transport setting file, run dvbscan without parameters. It will list all transport setting files and its run options."

[06:52:25]

wagnerrp:

Statts_a: youre running xbmc-live? meaning youre booting off a dvd?

[06:52:25]

Statts_a:

from the Dvbscan page

[06:52:38]

Statts_a:

no, installed to hdd, wagnerrp

[06:53:30]

k-man:

don't you have to tell it which dvb-t device to use?

[06:53:43]

Statts_a:

says to run it without parameters

[06:54:01]

k-man:

all instructions should be taken with a pinch of salt ;)

[06:54:21]

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[06:54:33]

k-man:

do an ls /dev/dvb (or wherever the dvb devices are, I forget)

[06:54:46]

k-man:

or maybe a dmsg | grep dvb might give you some clues

[06:54:59]

Statts_a:

$ ls /dev/dvb/

[06:54:59]

Statts_a:

adapter0 adapter1

[06:55:05]

k-man:

but I expect you'll have to run dvbscan -adaptor 0 or 1

[06:55:05]

Statts_a:

so i did:

[06:55:08]

justinh:

you have to use an initial tuning file with dvbscan

[06:55:17]

Statts_a:

scan -a 0

[06:55:22]

justinh:

otherwise how would it know where to look?

[06:55:41]

k-man:

Statts_a, http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Dvbscan

[06:55:45]

justinh:

there's another scanning program which doesn't need initial tuning information but that thing takes a bloody age

[06:56:09]

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[06:56:14]

k-man:

w_scan -fa -A1 -x > ~/dvbscan.txt maybe?

[06:56:37]

justinh:

oh yeah. w_scan

[06:56:37]

k-man:

Statts_a, what country are you in?

[06:56:43]

justinh:

where the W presumably stands for WAIT

[06:56:50]

k-man:

hehe

[06:56:51]

Statts_a:

Australia

[06:57:01]

k-man:

Statts_a, where abouts?

[06:57:06]

Statts_a:

Adelaide

[06:57:14]

k-man:

I'm pretty sure there are tuning files for australia hang on

[06:57:15]

Statts_a:

same as the dvbscan guide, funnily enough

[06:57:51]

justinh:

the files generally get installed to /usr/share/doc (?!) IIRC

[06:58:04]

justinh:

e.g. /usr/share/doc/scan/Country/Region

[06:59:00]

justinh:

heh they moved

[06:59:22]

justinh:

/usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/etceteraetcetera

[06:59:39]

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[07:00:12]

justinh:

ls /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t |grep au-

[07:00:36]

Statts_a:

got it

[07:01:18]

Statts_a:

dvbscan dvb-t/uk-Winter Hill > ~/.tzap/channels.conf

[07:01:18]

Statts_a:

?

[07:01:28]

Statts_a:

but with au-Adelaide?

[07:02:00]

Statts_a:

hrmm permission denied

[07:02:31]

Statts_a:

$ cd ~./tzap

[07:02:31]

Statts_a:

-bash: cd: ~./tzap: No such file or directory

[07:02:50]

k-man:

Statts_a, did you find the tuning file?

[07:02:54]

justinh:

just channels.conf will do

[07:02:59]

Statts_a:

yes

[07:03:05]

k-man:

err.. why uk?

[07:03:07]

justinh:

or don't use any file director

[07:03:19]

justinh:

you only need to know it *works*

[07:03:40]

Statts_a:

still saying permission denied

[07:03:48]

Statts_a:

$ sudo dvbscan dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:03:48]

Statts_a:

-bash: channels.conf: Permission denied

[07:04:08]

k-man:

what directory are you in?

[07:04:13]

k-man:

pwd

[07:04:13]

Statts_a:

home

[07:04:24]

Statts_a:

$ pwd

[07:04:29]

justinh:

so cd then do it again :)

[07:04:30]

k-man:

as which user? its saying you can't write channels.conf

[07:04:30]

Statts_a:

/

[07:04:46]

k-man:

cd; sudo dvbscan dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:04:55]

k-man:

oh, that won't work

[07:05:13]

Statts_a:

$ cd; sudo dvbscan dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:05:13]

Statts_a:

[sudo] password for xbmc:

[07:05:13]

Statts_a:

Failed to open frontend

[07:06:22]

k-man:

where is the au-Adelaide file?

[07:06:38]

justinh:

all this talk of xbmc is making me feel ever more unsympathetic

[07:06:50]

Statts_a:

/usr/share/dvb/dvb-t

[07:07:00]

laga:

justinh: xbmc killed the video star

[07:07:03]

k-man:

you need to do sudo dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf assuming thats where the adelaide file is

[07:07:20]

k-man:

why do people install xbmc? I don't understand it personaly

[07:07:37]

Statts_a:

$ sudo dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:07:37]

Statts_a:

-bash: channels.conf: Permission denied

[07:07:40]

k-man:

I mean, why install xbmc-bunto or whatever its called, and then put mythtv on it?

[07:07:50]

k-man:

Statts_a, pwd

[07:07:52]

justinh:

they *think* they *need* pointless animations & hard to navigate menu systems :P

[07:08:01]

k-man:

justinh, oh I see

[07:08:06]

Statts_a:

gah, i knew you were going to say that

[07:08:14]

Statts_a:

$ pwd

[07:08:14]

Statts_a:

/usr/share/dvb/dvb-t

[07:08:31]

k-man:

Statts_a, I feel like you execute commands in between what we tell you to execute

[07:08:32]

Statts_a:

$ cd; sudo dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:08:32]

Statts_a:

Failed to open frontend

[07:08:36]

k-man:

wihch makes helping you impossible

[07:08:43]

justinh:

you want to be in your *own* directory first

[07:08:49]

justinh:

so issue the command cd

[07:09:15]

justinh:

make sure mythbackend isn't running first, of course

[07:09:18]

Statts_a:

$ pwd

[07:09:21]

Statts_a:

/hom

[07:09:26]

Statts_a:

/home

[07:09:29]

justinh:

before trying to do any operation which will use a tuner device

[07:09:31]

k-man:

huh?

[07:09:32]

Statts_a:

is that where I need to be

[07:09:34]

k-man:

no

[07:09:35]

justinh:

you don't want to be in /home

[07:09:39]

k-man:

what is your user?

[07:09:41]

justinh:

you want to be in /home/YOURUSER

[07:09:46]

Statts_a:

ok i am there

[07:09:48]

** k-man beats head against desk **

[07:10:03]

Statts_a:

is that where I need to besudo dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:10:03]

Statts_a:

?

[07:10:13]

k-man:

Statts_a, yes

[07:10:23]

Statts_a:

$ sudo dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:10:23]

Statts_a:

Failed to open frontend

[07:10:32]

k-man:

ok! minor progress

[07:10:43]

Statts_a:

:)

[07:10:52]

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[07:10:52]

k-man:

try sudo dvbscan -adaptor 0 /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:10:56]

justinh:

NO

[07:11:01]

justinh:

try shutting down mythbackend first

[07:11:08]

k-man:

ah yeah good idea

[07:11:12]

justinh:

if mythbackend is running *it* will be using the tuner(s)

[07:11:14]

Statts_a:

killall mythbackend?

[07:11:19]

k-man:

Statts_a, no

[07:11:34]

Statts_a:

ok

[07:11:35]

k-man:

/etc/init.d/mythbackend stop I think.... but I could be wrong

[07:11:40]

justinh:

no, because Ubuntu being what it is, will probably magically restart mythbackend for you :D

[07:11:48]

justinh:

sudo service mythtv-backend stop

[07:11:59]

k-man:

oh, is that how they do it on ubuntu?

[07:12:08]

Statts_a:

did what justin said

[07:12:18]

justinh:

which leads me to ask again why the hell the restart option is even there if it doesn't fricking work

[07:12:20]

Statts_a:

now this sudo dvbscan -adaptor 0 /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:12:28]

justinh:

shouldn't need the sudo

[07:12:30]

k-man:

justinh >= k-man

[07:13:11]

Statts_a:

telling me usage, so something wanst right

[07:13:22]

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[07:13:41]

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[07:13:41]

k-man:

Statts_a, please paste the exact line you entered

[07:13:46]

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[07:13:52]

Statts_a:

$ dvbscan -adaptor 0 /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:14:32]

k-man:

Statts_a, which dvbscan

[07:14:45]

k-man:

err.. I jsut want to make sure we're using the correct program

[07:14:53]

Statts_a:

version?

[07:15:12]

k-man:

can you just paste the output from which dvbscan

[07:15:24]

Statts_a:

$ dvbscan -adaptor 0 /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:15:24]

Statts_a:

dvbscan: A digital tv channel scanning utility

[07:15:24]

Statts_a:

[07:15:24]

Statts_a:

usage: dvbscan <options> as follows:

[07:15:24]

Statts_a:

-h help

[07:15:25]

Statts_a:

-adapter <id> adapter to use (default 0)

[07:15:26]

Statts_a:

-frontend <id> frontend to use (default 0)

[07:15:28]

Statts_a:

-demux <id> demux to use (default 0)

[07:15:28]

justinh:

ARGHHHHHHHHHH

[07:15:30]

Statts_a:

-secfile <filename> Optional sec.conf file.

[07:15:32]

Statts_a:

-secid <secid> ID of the SEC configuration to use, one of:

[07:15:36]

Statts_a:

* UNIVERSAL (default) – Europe, 10800 to 11800 MHz and 11600 to 12700 Mhz,

[07:15:38]

** justinh puts all of .au on /.ignore **

[07:15:38]

Statts_a:

Dual LO, loband 9750, hiband 10600 MHz.

[07:15:40]

Statts_a:

* DBS – Expressvu, North America, 12200 to 12700 MHz, Single LO, 11250 MHz.

[07:15:42]

Statts_a:

* STANDARD – 10945 to 11450 Mhz, Single LO, 10000 Mhz.

[07:15:44]

Statts_a:

* ENHANCED – Astra, 10700 to 11700 MHz, Single LO, 9750 MHz.

[07:15:46]

Statts_a:

* C-BAND – Big Dish, 3700 to 4200 MHz, Single LO, 5150 Mhz.

[07:15:48]

Statts_a:

* C-MULTI – Big Dish – Multipoint LNBf, 3700 to 4200 MHz,

[07:15:50]

Statts_a:

Dual LO, H:5150MHz, V:5750MHz.

[07:15:52]

Statts_a:

* One of the sec definitions from the secfile if supplied

[07:15:54]

Statts_a:

-satpos <position> Specify DISEQC switch position for DVB-S.

[07:15:56]

Statts_a:

-inversion <on|off|auto> Specify inversion (default: auto).

[07:15:58]

Statts_a:

-uk-ordering Use UK DVB-T channel ordering if present.

[07:15:59]

k-man:

Statts_a, ok, if anyone ever tells you to paste something, and its more than one line, paste it to a pastebin

[07:16:00]

Statts_a:

-timeout <secs> Specify filter timeout to use (standard specced values will be used by default)

[07:16:02]

k-man:

not to the channel

[07:16:05]

Statts_a:

-filter <filter> Specify service filter, a comma seperated list of the following tokens:

[07:16:07]

Statts_a:

(If no filter is supplied, all services will be output)

[07:16:08]

justinh:

Statts_a: NOT TO THE CHANNEL

[07:16:09]

Statts_a:

* tv – Output TV channels

[07:16:11]

Statts_a:

* radio – Output radio channels

[07:16:13]

Statts_a:

* other – Output other channels

[07:16:15]

Statts_a:

* encrypted – Output encrypted channels

[07:16:15]

justinh:

frickin muppet

[07:16:17]

Statts_a:

-out raw <filename>|- Output in raw format to <filena

[07:16:19]

Statts_a:

's what you asked for?

[07:16:21]

Statts_a:

I can use pastebin if you prefer

[07:16:23]

k-man:

Statts_a, 2, I meant paste output of "which dvbscan" not from the command

[07:16:41]

justinh:

and for GOD'S SAKES disable your IRC client from 'safe pasting'

[07:16:43]

k-man:

Statts_a, rule of thumb, NEVER paste more than 1 line to a channel

[07:16:49]

justinh:

I'd much rather see people get k-lined

[07:16:59]

k-man:

hehe

[07:17:22]

Statts_a:

so you're asking me to enter "which dvbscan"?

[07:17:23]

justinh:

I don't know what it means but it sounds like just deserts

[07:18:24]

justinh:

anyway for the purposes of this demonstration you just need dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:18:49]

Statts_a:

$ dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:18:49]

Statts_a:

Unable to query frontend status

[07:18:54]

kormoc is now known as kormoc_afk

[07:19:15]

justinh:

if that is still saying no to you, try it with sudo – and if it works with sudo that means your user/group permissions are still wrong

[07:20:10]

Statts_a:

http://pastebin.com/uBz0nC7d

[07:20:35]

k-man:

it sounds to me as though some of the drivers are not loaded or something

[07:20:40]

k-man:

not sure

[07:20:57]

justinh:

didn't I read earlier that mythtv-setup succeeded in finding channels etc though?

[07:21:08]

Statts_a:

no

[07:21:13]

k-man:

Statts_a, can you paste the output of dmesg?

[07:21:19]

k-man:

to pastebin

[07:21:47]

Statts_a:

output is loooong

[07:21:53]

k-man:

yeah forget it

[07:21:55]

Statts_a:

too long for putty's buffer

[07:22:07]

k-man:

how about lsusb

[07:22:22]

k-man:

its a usb device right?

[07:22:22]

Statts_a:

http://pastebin.com/hFM3bD7y

[07:22:39]

justinh:

dmesg |grep dvb can be helpful

[07:22:40]

Statts_a:

a lot of that though, and that IS the tuner (DiB0070) from memory

[07:23:14]

Statts_a:

http://pastebin.com/m3vy8rZW

[07:23:37]

justinh:

ls /dev/dvb -al

[07:23:44]

k-man:

paste output of lsmod also

[07:24:20]

Statts_a:

justinh, http://pastebin.com/yFxkMb83

[07:24:48]

justinh:

why the heck is the device in the root group?!

[07:25:00]

Statts_a:

k-man, http://pastebin.com/5GgUYHsX

[07:25:08]

justinh:

that's just insane. I think I know why btw.. broken UDEV rules

[07:25:15]

k-man:

Statts_a, and also can you do "which scan" and paste that

[07:25:32]

justinh:

it's normal that DVB devices are owned by the 'video' group

[07:25:36]

Statts_a:

justinh, ? I have no idea, all I have done is plugged it in and added mythtv to the videos usergroup

[07:25:58]

justinh:

yeah well the device is owned by the root group – and it wouldn't be a great idea to add mythtv to that

[07:26:15]

Statts_a:

k-man, http://pastebin.com/nxfrdbgA

[07:26:32]

justinh:

what linux distro is this btw?

[07:26:41]

justinh:

something XBMC are shipping?

[07:26:46]

Statts_a:

yes

[07:26:50]

Statts_a:

xbmc-live

[07:26:54]

k-man:

Statts_a, just for fun, can you try it again with this: scan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/au-Adelaide > channels.conf

[07:27:19]

Statts_a:

its working k-man

[07:27:28]

k-man:

yay! +1 for google

[07:27:46]

k-man:

http://readthefuckingmanual.net/error/2732/

[07:27:49]

Statts_a:

I use that term loosely.......

[07:27:53]

k-man:

who knows why

[07:28:00]

Statts_a:

http://pastebin.com/3zCsWFMF

[07:28:19]

k-man:

awesome! a damn sight more progress

[07:28:24]

Statts_a:

indeed

[07:28:47]

k-man:

now, do you have the antenna plugged into the device?

[07:28:48]

justinh:

but still... tuners owned by root..

[07:28:57]

Statts_a:

k-man, yes

[07:28:59]

justinh:

ruh?

[07:29:03]

justinh:

so are mine.. hmm

[07:29:15]

justinh:

ahh. looking in the wrong place. LOL

[07:29:34]

k-man:

Statts_a, and you get good reception usually?

[07:29:39]

justinh:

ls -al /dev/dvb/adapter0 shows all the sub nodes are the right ownership

[07:30:17]

k-man:

Statts_a, and you live in Adelaide?

[07:30:36]

k-man:

not somewhere outside of adelaide that would be using different transmission towers?

[07:30:43]

Statts_a:

justinh, http://pastebin.com/tR41xkY2

[07:30:50]

Statts_a:

k-man, yes :)

[07:31:27]

Statts_a:

k-man, my tv, and the hauppage in my windows machine connected to same cable previously all get >50% signal and strength

[07:31:59]

k-man:

Statts_a, very strange then

[07:32:03]

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[07:33:47]

k-man:

maybe try lengthening the timeout?

[07:33:54]

k-man:

I'm at a loss really as to what to do now

[07:34:12]

justinh:

maybe disconnect everything else from the 'same cable' then :)

[07:34:18]

justinh:

not all tuners are alike

[07:34:28]

k-man:

yes... and in fact

[07:34:33]

justinh:

and passive splitting an aerial cable absolutely hammers signal strength

[07:34:36]

k-man:

do you have a splitter?

[07:34:43]

Statts_a:

yes

[07:34:44]

k-man:

yeah, remove the splitter

[07:34:46]

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[07:34:51]

Statts_a:

I will unplug the tv, hold on

[07:34:51]

k-man:

and connect directly and try again

[07:36:04]

k-man:

ah, scan seems to have different cli options: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Scan#An . . . ic_frequency

[07:36:23]

k-man:

Statts_a, can you pastebin the output of scan

[07:36:28]

k-man:

so I can see the options

[07:37:50]

k-man:

anyway

[07:37:52]

k-man:

I have to go

[07:38:01]

k-man:

good luck Statts_a

[07:39:53]

Statts_a:

hrmmm

[07:39:57]

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[07:40:13]

Statts_a:

cannot connect directly as the antenna splitter and whatnot all has the scre-on connectors

[07:40:30]

Statts_a:

so I cant take the splitter out, but can remove cabel from the tv, see if that helps

[07:40:33]

k-man:

justinh, did you see my q on theming about fonts?

[07:41:01]

k-man:

Statts_a, well, I guess try that but to me it seems like a signal level issue

[07:41:05]

[R]:

so i just updated my frontend and backend and now im getting "ALSA, Error: WriteAudio: buffer underrun"

[07:41:15]

[R]:

i knew i shouldnËˆt have touched it

[07:41:23]

Statts_a:

any way to change the timeout?

[07:41:28]

k-man:

[R], try changing the audio?

[07:41:35]

k-man:

Statts_a, scan -h might help

[07:41:42]

[R]:

k-man: changing what

[07:41:42]

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[07:41:56]

k-man:

well, I saw someone say something about changing to pulse audio

[07:42:02]

k-man:

but tbh I have not much idea

[07:42:08]

[R]:

im not using that crap

[07:42:37]

k-man:

yeah fair enough

[07:47:47]

Statts_a:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1670427 <-- similar

[07:48:01]

[R]:

hrm

[07:48:09]

[R]:

looks like i "fixed" it by changing the deinterlacer

[07:48:09]

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[07:48:32]

[R]:

i need to just update to 0.25

[07:58:47]

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[07:59:37]

simonckenyon:

anybody else having problems changing from one analogue channel to another on the same tuner? had it for a while in trunk.

[07:59:50]

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[08:00:00]

Statts_a:

k-man, got w_scan going

[08:04:05]

[R]:

simonckenyon: "having problems" tells us nothing

[08:09:09]

simonckenyon:

say i am on channel 101 and tune to 102 (which is another channel on the same PVR350 analogue tuner), the tune is not successful and it falls back to the menu system. if i tune to 20101 (which is on a DVB-S tuner – which works) and then from there to 102, it also works.

[08:09:29]

[R]:

and what does the backend log say

[08:09:32]

[R]:

and what does the frontend log say

[08:15:41]

simonckenyon:

i suspect that this is the offending error message: "DevRdB(/dev/pvr350_mpeg0): poll error". there is a log attached to the ticket (9830). i don't have a frontend log. will get one tonight if you think it is relevant.

[08:17:01]

[R]:

well it depends on the error

[08:17:05]

[R]:

most likely its the backend log

[08:20:19]

simonckenyon:

the next line in the log is "MPEGRec(/dev/pvr350_mpeg0) Error: Device error detected"

[08:20:20]

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[08:21:17]

simonckenyon:

so is anybody (in analogue land) having similar issues?

[08:22:36]

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[10:30:42]

ahhughes:

I feel dirty asking this ;) but anyone know what XP software I need to watch dvb-t TV?

[10:32:10]

ahhughes:

vlc?

[10:32:44]

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[10:34:25]

justinh:

no idea

[10:49:53]

ahhughes:

yeah, vlc kinda has support... no chance anyway.. this antenna is kaput.

[10:50:00]

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[12:20:55]

Statts:

evening all, so if I was to want to build a dedicatd mythtv backend machine, what OS should I go for?

[12:21:21]

Statts:

mythbuntu?

[12:21:57]

justinh:

whichever linux distro you feel most comfortable with

[12:22:32]

Statts:

(none)

[12:22:37]

Statts:

all will be a learning curve

[12:23:12]

Statts:

any OS that feature fzs that can run mythtv?

[12:23:15]

Statts:

zfs*

[12:23:20]

justinh:

zfs you mean?

[12:23:32]

Statts:

yes

[12:23:34]

justinh:

why does the filesystem matter?

[12:24:08]

Statts:

I like zfs, and it would mean the machine *could* double as mass storage and mythtv backend

[12:24:52]

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[12:24:53]

justinh:

pfft. the biggest threat to your data is disk failure. AND YOU ::O

[12:25:42]

rileyp:

HI Do I need alsa oss for sound in firefox?

[12:26:29]

Statts:

what do you mean by that, justinh?

[12:26:43]

justinh:

rileyp: webpages don't make sound on their own. anyway this is entirely the wrong place to ask

[12:27:21]

justinh:

Statts: I mean regardless of the filesystem you use, nothing will ever replace the need for backing up your own stuff

[12:27:41]

Statts:

this is true

[12:27:41]

rileyp:

well thanks for the good oil once again

[12:27:45]

justinh:

Statts: and FWIW I think even CrappyOldBuntu (made up name) supports ZFS

[12:29:12]

Statts:

http://systembash.com/content/howto-installin . . . y-on-ubuntu/

[12:29:16]

Statts:

thanks for the heads up

[12:29:18]

justinh:

Jesus. Somebody should go into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS and write it in English

[12:30:09]

justinh:

and no, seems Ubuntu doesn't like ZFS. ha

[12:30:37]

justinh:

ugh... ZFS under FUSE. UEEGH

[12:31:14]

Statts:

major downsides apart from not being able to boot?

[12:31:24]

justinh:

FUSE

[12:31:31]

justinh:

performance, for one

[12:34:35]

justinh:

how much storage are you having on planning anyway?

[12:34:45]

justinh:

er planning on having, even...

[12:35:02]

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[12:38:11]

justinh:

somebody was saying he was seeing about 20MB/sec on a ZFS pool

[12:38:35]

justinh:

I couldn't put up with that, especially when I just upgraded my home LAN to gig E :)

[12:40:54]

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[12:42:05]

Statts:

justinh, aroung 20TB

[12:42:17]

justinh:

that's a lot of stuff

[12:42:20]

Statts:

my current media storage box has 20TB

[12:42:34]

justinh:

tag management must be a bit of a nightmare

[12:42:37]

Statts:

only 5TB space left, so only a matter of time

[12:42:56]

justinh:

you can never have enough storage if you insist on keeping all the crap :)

[12:43:09]

Statts:

I am a bit of a media hoarder :)

[12:43:13]

justinh:

I think I expire/delete more than I watch

[12:43:17]

Statts:

everything HD too

[12:43:24]

justinh:

I hope the MPAA don't catch you

[12:44:19]

Statts:

oh no, it's all home movies

[12:44:26]

Statts:

*cough*

[12:46:01]

justinh:

I handed you the noose. You put it around your own neck

[12:48:13]

EvilGuru:

ZFS is somewhat overrated

[12:48:26]

EvilGuru:

the only interesting feature is the file checksumming

[12:49:21]

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[12:49:23]

justinh:

file squirrels. heh

[12:59:41]

k-man:

20TB? thats a lot of stuff

[13:00:13]

justinh:

a few months' worth, depending who your ISP is

[13:00:36]

justinh:

I know people who 'get things' "just because" :-\

[13:00:49]

EvilGuru:

justinh: Twenty years worth with my current ISP

[13:01:06]

EvilGuru:

Well, just a bit under, but assuming you do stuff other than download

[13:02:01]

k-man:

justinh, yeah, me to, in fact they get multiple versions of those things, just because

[13:02:03]

justinh:

I tried to downgrade my broadband a good while ago. we mostly just browse

[13:02:20]

mycosys:

i just upgraded to 8mbit unlimited

[13:02:25]

mycosys:

proper unlimited

[13:02:38]

k-man:

mycosys, how much does that cost?

[13:02:44]

justinh:

8Mbit sounds pretty limited to me :P

[13:02:47]

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[13:02:56]

mycosys:

A$60

[13:03:03]

Statts:

http://i.imgur.com/H4lcN.jpg

[13:03:18]

mycosys:

ur not in the australian countryside justinh

[13:03:30]

Statts:

24mbit unlimited here

[13:03:39]

mycosys:

you mean up to 24mbit

[13:03:43]

** EvilGuru doubrs it is unlimited **

[13:03:57]

Statts:

yeah, just like 8mbit?

[13:04:06]

Statts:

never been shaped EvilGuru

[13:04:19]

justinh:

I'm glad I'm not in the australian countryside. I can't pronounce more than half your place names without laughing ;-)

[13:04:20]

mycosys:

no – 8mbit is 8mbit – solid

[13:04:24]

EvilGuru:

Try pulling 200+ a month and I'm sure you'll get an e-mail

[13:04:44]

mycosys:

24mbit is whatever ur line manges

[13:04:53]

justinh:

'up to'.. hehehehe

[13:04:57]

k-man:

mycosys, who with?

[13:04:59]

mycosys:

and my connection is above the 300G pkan

[13:05:02]

mycosys:

*plan

[13:05:06]

mycosys:

TFGservers

[13:05:10]

Statts:

200 *what* EvilGuru ?

[13:05:25]

mycosys:

is a resold tpg as far as i can tell

[13:05:27]

justinh:

ours is 'up to 10Mbit' & they cheat by shaping traffic to speed test sites

[13:05:29]

mycosys:

$10 cheaper

[13:05:34]

EvilGuru:

Statts: GB, no way you could pull 200 TB and 200 MB is nothing

[13:05:39]

mycosys:

and u get an aussie to talk to

[13:05:52]

Statts:

well, I average around 800GB per month, and don't get any emails

[13:05:53]

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[13:05:54]

justinh:

talk to? Oh, for when it goes off?

[13:06:07]

justinh:

I can't remember the last time I had to speak to a tech at the ISP

[13:06:09]

mycosys:

guy that runs it is branching out from hosting – uses it himself to connect to his colo

[13:06:13]

Statts:

most I have done is 1.3TB in a month

[13:07:11]

justinh:

holy poops. browsing over an NX session is actually faster than on this machine at work

[13:07:33]

justinh:

the screen redraws are faster. LOL

[13:07:42]

EvilGuru:

NX, didn't the protocol go all closed source not too long ago?

[13:07:48]

justinh:

stupid SiS graphics

[13:08:03]

justinh:

dunno. using it here since the year dot

[13:08:19]

justinh:

there's even an open source linux viewer now

[13:08:38]

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[13:08:43]

mycosys:

is even part of winswitch iirc

[13:08:52]

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[13:09:01]

mycosys:

desktop session is nx, app session is xpra

[13:11:32]

Statts:

Hitachi Travelstar Z5K500 – 2.5" single platter 500GB

[13:11:54]

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[13:11:56]

Statts:

wrong window :)

[13:12:23]

mycosys:

lol

[13:13:45]

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[13:14:33]

justinh:

ok then. how much money would it cost to accrue 20TB of stuff, assuming say Â£10 per disc?

[13:14:48]

justinh:

is that cheaper or more expensive than the broadband? :D

[13:15:45]

Statts:

and 25GB per disc?

[13:15:53]

Statts:

(bluray)?

[13:16:34]

justinh:

also assuming bluray isn't compressed by some l337 haxx0r & shoved into an mkv container :D

[13:17:11]

Statts:

GBP8000 for 20TB worth of 25GB blurays

[13:18:45]

justinh:

8 grand eh.methinks broadband should increase in price somewhat

[13:20:28]

justinh:

or rather, *your* broadband :P

[13:20:50]

justinh:

I can see that happening at some point. that'll be fun

[13:21:14]

justinh:

better if at the same time they do away with copy protection but I think we all know that's never gonna happen

[13:22:05]

justinh:

hahahaha what's this? a DVR machine running some analytics stuff crashed due to an OOM error & wrote over its own flash. oops

[13:22:16]

Statts:

my unlimited *up to* 24Mbit adsl2+ costs me AU$30 per month

[13:22:33]

Statts:

~US$32

[13:22:36]

justinh:

Statts: should be more, judging by how much you're stealing then

[13:23:40]

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[13:43:41]

mycosys:

what do you actually sync at Statts

[13:43:49]

mycosys:

and how do you get it for that?

[13:44:44]

Statts:

8mbit

[13:44:55]

Statts:

and bundled with home phone (unlimited local calls)

[13:45:00]

Statts:

$65 all up per month

[13:48:28]

mycosys:

not on a telstra dslam then lol

[13:48:55]

mycosys:

tho u reminded me i need to put some $% in my voip acct

[13:50:39]

Statts:

no, TPG dslam

[13:54:09]

rileyp:

I need to churn as well being rolled by exetel at present

[13:54:19]

Statts:

ok, so new mythbuntu installation on a 250GB disk, use whole disk or partition?

[13:54:54]

rileyp:

50 pm for 30 g at 15000 cause my dslam is telstra and reginal 2

[13:55:10]

rileyp:

statts 5 parttions

[13:55:21]

Statts:

5 partitions?

[13:55:29]

Statts:

..... really?

[13:57:15]

rileyp:

2 gig swap 10 gig o/s 10 gig os spare for testing 10 gigs o/s spare 20 gigs / home 5 /usr 5 /var rest of drive unpartioned or part it xfs for recordings

[13:57:45]

Statts:

wow, that seems complicated :)

[13:57:56]

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[13:59:00]

rileyp:

thats more than 5 so yeah as many as you want its good to have spare space when you want to try the latest and greatest but dont want to effect waf...

[13:59:24]

Statts:

WAF > *

[13:59:42]

rileyp:

Im running lucid on 1 partiton and natty on another 2 if I stuff one up it dont matter I can go back and fix when I have time

[14:00:48]

Statts:

2gig swap seems a lot, Im only running 1gb ram, is it not relative?

[14:01:41]

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[14:01:54]

rileyp:

I fully fledged operational front end is just a reboot away .. What happens when you get more ram given to you? complain you only have 1 gig swap?

[14:02:39]

rileyp:

2 gig you wont miss it....

[14:03:25]

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[14:03:30]

Statts:

20what file system for o/s?

[14:04:11]

justinh:

2GB for swap & you're thinking about storing 20TB of nicked media? ROFLMAO

[14:04:57]

Statts:

justinh, I wasn't sure if swap was in some way relative to amount of ram

[14:05:16]

justinh:

should be 2x your RAM amount as a guideline

[14:05:16]

Statts:

thats what i was trying to ask. I don't really care if I need 20GB for swap

[14:05:32]

Statts:

thank you

[14:06:13]

Statts:

this IS my first experience with linux, so you'll have to forgive me for not being fully up to speed like yourself

[14:06:34]

Statts:

......... or just continue to attempt to poke fun at me, either way +1 buddy

[14:07:04]

justinh:

if you intend to be quizical, ask a question not say "X seems a lot" :-)

[14:08:01]

Statts:

read the whole sentence, it was indeed a question

[14:09:01]

justinh:

how much swap you need is relative to the amount of physical memory you have. if you have *lots* of RAM you may not even need swap

[14:09:06]

justinh:

go use google

[14:09:18]

justinh:

this isn't #linux-installation-101

[14:09:50]

Statts:

yeah, you're right, I'll let everyone go back to idling now. Sorry.

[14:11:43]

justinh:

you can always do worse than read a distro's own documentation

[14:26:24]

EvilGuru:

justinh: The 2x guidelines is long out of date

[14:26:40]

EvilGuru:

You want 512 MiB, but that is only to act as a buffer

[14:30:50]

justinh:

so why does distroX always automagically opt for 2x RAM still?

[14:31:14]

justinh:

anyway I don't really care. I've always used 2x RAM & never ran into any problems

[14:31:30]

justinh:

if you can't afford that much space you're in trouble anyway IMHO

[14:31:59]

sphery:

IMHO disk space is cheap and OOM killing is often a /very/ annoying thing

[14:32:21]

sphery:

so I use 2GB on all my systems--regardless of how little memory they have

[14:32:49]

justinh:

I ran my diskless frontend swapless – didn't really run into any issues there

[14:32:56]

justinh:

but it only ever ran one app :)

[14:33:02]

EvilGuru:

justinh: Most don't they usually go for a fixed amount

[14:33:10]

sphery:

the difference between 512MB swap and 2GB swap is negligible on a modern HDD and the difference between my system thrashing a while until I notice a problem and the system killing off a very important job is huge

[14:33:16]

EvilGuru:

Many SSD users with high end systems started to ckmplain

[14:33:37]

EvilGuru:

*complain

[14:33:48]

sphery:

(and, yes, I've had systems that got >512MB into swap before I noticed issues since I don't sit at my system 24/7 :)

[14:34:09]

justinh:

SSD users.. ahh the new ruling class

[14:34:13]

EvilGuru:

You probably want oomkiller, in that scenario

[14:34:23]

justinh:

they're not really practical folks, that lot :)

[14:34:38]

EvilGuru:

swap on an SSD is expensive in terms of space and can eat into the lifespan

[14:34:45]

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[14:35:06]

justinh:

yeah I can see that, but it still doesn't make me care

[14:35:12]

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[14:36:24]

justinh:

people nowadays are using stupid amounts of ram on home systems. I can't relate to that

[14:36:52]

justinh:

if you have 32GB RAM, 2x RAM swap begins to be a space consideration :P

[14:37:10]

EvilGuru:

Disk cache, I have 16 GiB on my desktop

[14:37:26]

EvilGuru:

Although in fairness I do run a lot of memory intensive simulations on it

[14:37:42]

justinh:

simulations? what of?

[14:37:48]

EvilGuru:

plasma, so n-body problem

[14:38:07]

justinh:

each to their own, I guess ;)

[14:38:40]

EvilGuru:

But lots of memory is good from a reducing disk access standpoint

[14:39:11]

justinh:

I don't really run into issues where the HDD is slowing things down to a point where I become angry

[14:39:32]

justinh:

most apps start quickly enough

[14:39:33]

EvilGuru:

I never used to, but then every application decided to start using BDB/sqlite

[14:39:36]

justinh:

files load fast enough :)

[14:40:22]

justinh:

ok so my video editing work is impacted by HDD speed.. but that ain't gonna improve without a lot of expenditure

[14:40:34]

justinh:

so for now I'll happily wait :)

[14:40:57]

EvilGuru:

I've never found anything other than faster disks to help there, RAID never seems to deliver

[14:41:36]

justinh:

HW raid, with plenty of fast cache

[14:41:40]

justinh:

no doubt

[14:41:44]

justinh:

*and* fast HDDs

[14:42:29]

justinh:

I somehow doubt a $100 'RAID/Port multiplier' card can outrun or equal a proper RAID solution with its own RAM etc

[14:43:15]

justinh:

look at the stuff people are having to use to work with 2k/4k video/film .. that's a lot of data

[14:43:31]

justinh:

uncompressed 4k must weigh a ton

[14:48:52]

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[15:17:03]

wagnerrp:

Statts: the only two OSs that support ZFS are solaris and freebsd

[15:17:08]

wagnerrp:

and solaris is largely defunct

[15:17:18]

wagnerrp:

freebsd will work as a backend, but youre limited in tuner support

[15:17:24]

wagnerrp:

ive never tried to use it as a frontend

[15:17:30]

Statts:

working great on my other media storage machine though

[15:17:44]

Statts:

(zfs that is)

[15:17:56]

Statts:

I heard there is workig being done to port mythtv to solaris?

[15:18:33]

wagnerrp:

EvilGuru: you are correct, as a straight filesystem, it is nothing impressive

[15:18:45]

wagnerrp:

what great about zfs are all the volume management stuff tacked on

[15:19:18]

EvilGuru:

I've never been sure there, always seemed like it is done 'well enough' at the block level by LVM and friends

[15:19:25]

wagnerrp:

checksumming (and recovery), snapshotting, cloning, remote backup, raid

[15:21:08]

wagnerrp:

justinh: i used to have a problem with my diskless swapless frontend

[15:21:28]

wagnerrp:

with only 1GB of memory, i couldnt compile myth with -j2

[15:21:31]

EvilGuru:

Yeah the checksumming is the bit I find interesting

[15:21:53]

wagnerrp:

kept having these random compiler errors where there would be some anomalous compiler error

[15:22:35]

wagnerrp:

Statts: there is no work being done to port mythtv to solaris

[15:22:47]

wagnerrp:

mythtv works on posix systems, solaris is a posix system

[15:22:56]

wagnerrp:

if it compiles and runs directly, great

[15:23:23]

wagnerrp:

if not, i dont think anyone cares enough about solaris now that it is being choked off by oracle to make it work

[15:23:33]

EvilGuru:

does anything but Linux really support a sizeable number of tuners?

[15:23:43]

wagnerrp:

windows... :)

[15:24:05]

** EvilGuru got two of his tuners from unhappy Windows users **

[15:24:28]

EvilGuru:

turns out the driver/frontend stuff is useless enough that people can not be bothered with it

[15:24:57]

sphery:

Statts: FWIW: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5769 ... You'll need to create patches and submit them against current MythTV unstable/development code (from the master branch)

[15:25:36]

wagnerrp:

Statts: freebsd works well enough as a backend, and supports zfs

[15:25:55]

wagnerrp:

we have a buildbot for it, so it can be considered a first tier architecture

[15:26:11]

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[15:26:18]

wagnerrp:

release version is a bit behind on zfs version (V15), but 8.3 will have just a modern version as solaris

[15:26:53]

wagnerrp:

EvilGuru: its just all the stuff that having your filesystem and volume manager integrated gets you

[15:27:37]

wagnerrp:

lvm doesnt know anything about the files it is handling

[15:28:22]

Statts:

thanks guys

[15:28:31]

Statts:

I may well try freebsd down the track

[15:28:33]

wagnerrp:

for instance, stripe size varies dynamically based off filesize

[15:28:42]

Statts:

is there a way to export a backend setup?

[15:28:51]

wagnerrp:

Statts: note that with freebsd, you are basically limited to the hdhomerun and iptv tuners

[15:29:03]

Statts:

oh ok that's not so good

[15:29:03]

wagnerrp:

supposedly anything usb can be made to work with webcamd, but ive never used it

[15:29:11]

Statts:

hdhomerun is virtually unheard of here

[15:29:24]

wagnerrp:

there is a DVB-T version of it

[15:29:38]

wagnerrp:

EvilGuru: basically, that gets rid of the write hole in raid5/6

[15:29:39]

Statts:

I just picked up a Sony PlayTV today after seeing the messing around required to get my HVR2200 working

[15:30:01]

wagnerrp:

the write whole being when you write to a stripe, you have to read the whole stripe, calculate the parity, and write the whole stripe

[15:30:10]

wagnerrp:

with zfs, you always write the whole stripe

[15:30:14]

wagnerrp:

so there is no read step

[15:30:40]

wagnerrp:

or with filesystem checksumming, all you can do is know the file is damaged

[15:31:02]

wagnerrp:

when your filesystem now has access to the redundancy data, you can actually repair the damage, eliminating bitrot

[15:34:04]

Statts:

ok here's something I got working the other night but cannot remember how. trying to ssh-X to my mythbuntu machine, but Event Log is telling me it cannot open the display localhost:10.0

[15:34:28]

Statts:

now I remember I had to do something to change that to 0.0 but cannot recall what, anyone know?

[15:34:29]

wagnerrp:

you have X forwarding turned off in your sshd.conf

[15:34:33]

wagnerrp:

sshd_config

[15:34:41]

Statts:

location?

[15:34:50]

wagnerrp:

/etc/ssh/

[15:35:47]

Statts:

http://pastebin.com/zdT4qksq

[15:35:48]

Statts:

seems on?

[15:36:08]

wagnerrp:

seems so

[15:36:24]

Statts:

it was something to do with changing the display location

[15:37:22]

Statts:

lol this may be my bad....

[15:37:35]

Statts:

yep, it is

[15:37:40]

Statts:

Xming wasnt running haha

[15:39:48]

Statts:

excelent

[15:40:23]

Statts:

not sure what was wrong with the mythtv install on my xbmc machine, but with all the same settings on this mythbuntu test box, I am picking up channels now, whereas I couldt before

[15:44:26]

wagnerrp:

crapinski

[15:44:47]

wagnerrp:

apparently the 2011 intel chips are going to run up to ~180W TDP

[15:45:27]

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[15:47:07]

Statts:

madness

[15:48:18]

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[15:52:52]

sphery:

wagnerrp: CPU chips? Sandy Bridge based?

[15:53:02]

sphery:

(so CP/GP, I guess if it is)

[15:53:03]

wagnerrp:

sphery: 2011 chips

[15:53:15]

wagnerrp:

CPU only, no graphics

[15:53:19]

sphery:

wow

[15:53:44]

wagnerrp:

socket 2011 is the successor to the real i7s on socket 1377

[15:54:01]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: im looking at you and your socket 1156 impostor over there

[15:54:03]

wagnerrp:

:)

[15:54:14]

sphery:

ah, socket 2011... Funny--they've finally caught up to the year.

[15:54:37]

wagnerrp:

sphery: anyway, 8 cores, 15MB of cache, 32 PCIe 3.0 channels, four memory controllers

[15:54:50]

sphery:

I really hope with 180W TDP they have a good cpu throttling capability

[15:55:40]

wagnerrp:

running just shy of 4GHz

[15:55:48]

** sphery just spend about an hour debugging what turned out to be a bug in his after-mythtv log processing command **

[15:56:00]

sphery:

explains why I didn't find any bugs in the mythtv code

[15:56:39]

sphery:

FWIW, don't process logs with the following to get "simplified" output: cut -d " " -f 1,2,3,9-

[15:57:14]

sphery:

(was meant to go from -l "debug" logging in file to simplified "console" output, but it corrupts multi-line output)

[15:57:20]

sphery:

time to switch to sed

[15:57:40]

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[15:57:46]

sphery:

(so I can regex match on the appropriate timestamp type formatting and output everything else as is)

[15:58:13]

Statts:

wow, I love the icon download function of mythtv backend

[15:58:43]

sphery:

better is the theme download function (since icon download needs a complete rewrite)

[15:59:56]

Statts:

oh? I will keep an eye out for it

[16:00:03]

Statts:

icons seem to take forever

[16:05:20]

sphery:

OK, sed patterns are too ugly... switching to perl

[16:05:55]

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[16:10:13]

Statts:

ok here's a question

[16:10:25]

Statts:

the downloaded icon is wrong, how can I change it?

[16:10:37]

Statts:

in channel setup

[16:11:38]

sphery:

I don't know for sure... I always use the shell-based downloader since it allows some interactivity. But, this is exactly why it needs rewriting :)

[16:13:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: what's a good name for a page on MythTV wiki for info on Logging (describing differences between console logging and -l "debug" logging, including a command to simplify debug logging to console output, and discussion of db logging stuff)?

[16:13:44]

wagnerrp:

"Logging" ?

[16:16:42]

sphery:

heh, guess that would work

[16:16:45]

sphery:

thanks

[16:17:06]

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[16:17:41]

Statts:

alright, setup done and mythfilldatabase done

[16:17:44]

Statts:

might call it a night

[16:19:43]

Statts:

is there a frontend for windows that includes live tv?

[16:19:54]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend runs under windows

[16:20:29]

Statts:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythfrontend ?

[16:20:38]

Statts:

or is my google-fu foobar?

[16:20:42]

Statts:

fubar*

[16:20:59]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend, the official frontend application for mythtv

[16:22:54]

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[16:24:06]

Statts:

OK I guess my hopes for a nice standalone program were ambitious?

[16:24:31]

wagnerrp:

what do you mean?

[16:24:41]

wagnerrp:

you can run a frontend on a machine by itself

[16:24:48]

wagnerrp:

and connect to a remote backend

[16:25:41]

Statts:

ok, found this now, seems I have some work to do.... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Windows_Port

[16:26:06]

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[16:30:29]

Statts:

goodnight all

[16:30:34]

Statts:

thanks for the help

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[17:22:45]

dewman:

yesterday sphery pointed me to do the following to delete all the deleted shows, "if you want to delete all deleted shows, go to watch recordings, menu|change group filter, then select Deleted then menu|add this group to playlist, then menu|playlist options|delete" however i dont seem to have a group filter called deleted....

[17:23:50]

dewman:

i thought maybe it was due to using a different theme, so I changed themes and still didnt see it listed. is it something that I need to add manually?

[17:30:46]

sphery:

dewman: MENU|Change Group View, and ensure you've selected "Deleted", perhaps?

[17:30:53]

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[17:31:39]

sphery:

hmmm... looks like that doesn't have Deleted.

[17:32:00]

dewman:

sphery, ok let me go double check again...

[17:32:32]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: you are a silly boy

[17:32:52]

wagnerrp:

you have a processor thats a LIAR

[17:32:57]

wagnerrp:

its LYING to you

[17:33:00]

wagnerrp:

:)

[17:33:14]

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[17:33:26]

wagnerrp:

wheres your triple channel memory and gobs of power consumption now?

[17:33:32]

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[17:34:08]

dewman:

sphery, I dont see it...

[17:34:20]

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[17:35:57]

stuartm:

before I re-invent the wheel has anyone written a script to cut the beginning/end off a recording using the cutlist? i.e. using the first and last cut marks to obtain arguments to dd --skip/--count?

[17:36:44]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: know any python?

[17:36:52]

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[17:38:00]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: not really, I learn just enough to do basic hacks when required then quickly forget it again

[17:38:37]

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[17:39:02]

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[17:39:08]

stuartm:

I was always more of a perl guy, but it's been a while since I did anything in perl either

[17:39:55]

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[17:40:11]

wagnerrp:

ive got a mostly written but not quite functional script

[17:40:21]

wagnerrp:

http://www.wagnerrp.com/files/MythTV/tscut2.py

[17:40:29]

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[17:40:42]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: thanks, I'll take a look :)

[17:40:45]

wagnerrp:

it performs a GOP cut at the inner keyframe

[17:40:54]

wagnerrp:

and pumps it through mythffmpeg for timecode cleanup

[17:40:57]

wagnerrp:

... at least in theory

[17:41:11]

wagnerrp:

the ffmpeg stuff never really worked right

[17:41:19]

stuartm:

ah

[17:41:33]

wagnerrp:

if you alter it to dump to a file rather than the ffmpeg stdin pipe

[17:41:37]

wagnerrp:

it will produce an mpeg file

[17:41:43]

wagnerrp:

but the timecodes are hosed

[17:41:54]

wagnerrp:

it breaks if you try to seek within the removed region

[17:42:23]

stuartm:

I've been doing nothing more sophisticated than using dd manually to crop off the ends, using a cutlist as a guide, this is for H.264 were we can't do lossless transcodes

[17:42:52]

wagnerrp:

ive been meaning to reformulate the cutpoints around the cut out frames

[17:43:08]

wagnerrp:

so the internal player automatically removes the bit of excess around the keyframes

[17:43:17]

wagnerrp:

never got around to it

[17:43:22]

stuartm:

makes sense

[17:44:29]

wagnerrp:

anyway

[17:44:52]

wagnerrp:

if you just replace that popen with an open(filename), it will give the desired results

[17:45:06]

stuartm:

thanks :)

[17:45:08]

wagnerrp:

but the cutlist and seeklist will be invalid

[17:45:37]

stuartm:

that's not a problem, I'm editing these recordings for export to mythvideo

[17:46:02]

wagnerrp:

hey, ive got a script for that one too!

[17:46:02]

wagnerrp:

:)

[17:47:21]

wagnerrp:

since youre just clipping the start and end, there will be no gaps to worry about

[17:47:32]

wagnerrp:

so you wont have any of the problems i did

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[17:47:53]

wagnerrp:

but you might want to remux to mkv anyway

[17:48:08]

wagnerrp:

youll save a decent amount of space compared to the TS files

[17:48:55]

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[17:50:37]

stuartm:

I'd love to cut out the ad breaks in the non-BBC material, but that's complicated even when you're working with a textbook encoding, some of this broadcast H.264 is anything but simple and finding the right place to make a clean cut is difficult

[17:51:14]

stuartm:

the timecode fixes would probably be easy in comparison

[17:51:39]

wagnerrp:

yeah, a GOP cutter should be fairly simple, which is what this does

[17:51:55]

wagnerrp:

but recently some user claimed that BBC recordings reference more than just the last I frame

[17:52:24]

wagnerrp:

and since a simple script cant read the structure to know whether its actually safe to cut at the nearest block

[17:52:29]

stuartm:

I'm in no hurry, I'll play with it as I have time and see whether it can be bent to my will ;)

[17:52:32]

wagnerrp:

you would end up keeping several previous blocks

[17:52:57]

wagnerrp:

well like i said months back last time you were looking into this

[17:53:10]

wagnerrp:

i kept intending to clean it up for the handful of recordings mythtranscode barfs on

[17:53:43]

stuartm:

the ITV HD recording I was working on earlier had to be cut a few thousand blocks early otherwise playback would jump the first few seconds

[17:53:44]

wagnerrp:

but with my redundant array filled, i havent been transcoding and archiving my recordings in some time

[17:53:58]

wagnerrp:

few... thousand?

[17:54:32]

wagnerrp:

presumably youre not talking full GOP blocks

[17:54:42]

wagnerrp:

since that would be longer than the length of the show itself

[17:55:16]

stuartm:

heh no, fs blocks, 512KB

[17:55:51]

stuartm:

512B

[17:55:59]

wagnerrp:

yeah, was about to say thats still several GB

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stuartm:

iirc around 4 MB, no more than 20–30 seconds worth at most

[17:58:11]

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[17:59:15]

stuartm:

or is that more like 5 seconds ...

[17:59:50]

stuartm:

not really important :)

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[18:13:58]

jrr:

this is weird. given a 720p signal over HDMI, my sony tv seems to zoom in and throw away the outer ~5% of the image

[18:14:05]

jrr:

"overscan" I think they call it

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[18:40:14]

wagnerrp:

sphery: in a somewhat more sane move, firefox has decided to drop external version numbers entirely

[18:40:19]

wagnerrp:

now you simply run 'firefox'

[18:40:56]

jrr:

and wonder where your familiar interface went

[18:41:19]

wagnerrp:

exactly

[18:41:38]

wagnerrp:

better than arbitrarily throwing out new major version numbers every few months just for the hell of it

[18:41:49]

jrr:

or every week like chrome =]

[18:42:19]

wagnerrp:

steam already operates like this to some extent

[18:42:27]

wagnerrp:

theyve changed their UI around a couple times

[18:42:37]

wagnerrp:

and not only are there no version numbers

[18:42:49]

wagnerrp:

you have no choice but to update, or lose access to your games

[18:42:58]

sphery:

heh, cool

[18:43:04]

sphery:

so no more Firefox 7 this year?

[18:44:06]

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[19:04:58]

stuartm:

jrr: sadly true, some HD/Digital tvs do 'overscan' even though it's really an analogue concept, personally I'd return such a TV as faulty since TV manufacturers won't stop doing it until consumers fight back

[19:05:50]

kormoc:

sphery, Firefox 7 is so last month. The new hotness is "Firefox, the experience"

[19:07:25]

sphery:

as in XP? Wow, how 2001 of them. :)

[19:07:31]

stuartm:

jrr: most people seem not to care or they accept it as how things are, it's pretty stupid IMHO

[19:08:34]

sphery:

jrr: fwiw, some tvs allow disabling it in the setup menus (or at least in the maintenance menu--the one users aren't supposed to use, but that you can find info about on the 'net, but if you break your TV with it, remember I didn't /recommend/ using it :)

[19:09:22]

sphery:

jrr: other option is to scale the video output to fit on screen (using an X modeline for all of X or using mythfrontend's Appearance or Screen Setup Wizard to change mythfrontend/mythtv-setup only)

[19:09:59]

sphery:

But I /highly/ recommend checking http://avsforum.com/ for info on your TV--the guys there know details of each specific model, so look up your model in their archives

[19:13:31]

jrr:

it only really bugs me when running from the PC

[19:13:45]

jrr:

if the TV were my only display, I'd just use 1366x768 and call it done

[19:13:57]

jrr:

but the same hdmi signal also drives a 720p projector

[19:16:54]

EvilGuru:

All of the 1080p TVs I've used/got have had overscan enabled on the HDMI inputs by default. Always been possible to disable it

[19:17:35]

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[19:17:48]

jrr:

this is a KDL32S3000, and quick googling shows others with the problem but no solutions

[19:19:51]

EvilGuru:

jrr: KDL is a sony model number?

[19:24:34]

kormoc:

jrr, Set your Wide Mode to 'Full'

[19:25:47]

kormoc:

jrr, and perhaps change your Display Area setting to Normal, not -1/-2

[19:28:25]

jrr:

it's definitely on 'normal'

[19:28:56]

jrr:

it's interesting that they treat different resolutions differently

[19:29:03]

jrr:

1366x768 is pixel-perfect

[19:29:07]

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[19:29:24]

jrr:

oh, and I've tried all the wide modes

[19:29:43]

jrr:

I tried a few cheat codes to try to get into a maintenance menu, no luck

[19:29:56]

kormoc:

Full afaik is the only option to not overscan 720p/1080I, but only those specific resolutions

[19:30:02]

kormoc:

afaik

[19:30:20]

jrr:

I'll try that again when I get home

[19:30:45]

kormoc:

It could be that it's only on certain models or you need a firmware upgrade

[19:31:08]

jrr:

how do you update a television's firmware? (one that has no wifi or ethernet, that is)

[19:31:37]

kormoc:

typically they have a usb port and so you can use a usb stick to upgrade it

[19:31:38]

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[19:32:26]

stuartm:

jrr: interesting, that's extremely close to my TV, also a 32" Sony, but mine doesn't have that issue

[19:34:13]

stuartm:

hmm, I wonder if this is a locale related thing, it seems most people in the US have TVs which overscan but in my experience it's not so common in the UK, are manufacturers enabling overscan in the US because of crappy broadcasting practices where the edge of the picture is cruft/noise?

[19:34:30]

kormoc:

stuartm, I could understand that

[19:34:45]

jrr:

http://hd.engadget.com/2010/05/27/hd-101-over . . . l-tvs-do-it/

[19:35:14]

jrr:

sounds like it goes back to some crappy broadcasts with junk on the edges, prompting consumers to return their shiny new televisions

[19:36:06]

stuartm:

jrr: yeah, in the UK we don't have that edge issue so there would be no need for the TV to overscan to hide it

[19:36:15]

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[19:37:08]

stuartm:

fwiw I've just checked and mine is the KDL-32P3020 – so not the same model, but still an older Sony Bravia 32"

[19:38:07]

jrr:

for now I'm just dealing with it

[19:38:27]

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[19:38:27]

jrr:

window decorations and taskbar are hard to get to, but that's a minor annoyance

[19:38:54]

jrr:

what really gets me is not seeing the whole picture of my video content

[19:39:28]

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[19:39:53]

stuartm:

aye, I can well imagine how that might be frustrating, I get angry just knowing that some TVs still perform overscan even though I don't own one

[19:40:40]

jrr:

I usually watch movies on the projector so at least those are unmolested

[19:40:50]

jrr:

casual TV-watching is less important

[19:44:09]

AndyCap:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/13084

[19:47:03]

justinh:

funny, all the lcd sets I've seen recently have a 'full' menu option & they remember the setting per input :-)

[19:47:11]

justinh:

none are sony, mind you

[19:50:00]

AndyCap:

it's all moot as if they record in 1920x1080 and crop it

[19:50:04]

stuartm:

justinh: well as I was saying, it _seems_ to be less of an issue in the UK which might be explained by the difference in picture quality in the US vs UK, since they re-introduced overscan in the US to deal with analogue cruft being transferred to digital broadcasts and we don't have that issue here

[19:51:06]

stuartm:

justinh: my Sony doesn't overscan, and yet it's not that far removed from jrr's model

[19:51:39]

jrr:

on hdmi?

[19:51:47]

jrr:

at 720p?

[19:51:58]

stuartm:

yep

[19:52:30]

jrr:

hmm

[19:53:01]

stuartm:

jrr: could be different configs/firmwares are used in different regions

[19:53:19]

justinh:

stuartm: so UK HD doesn't have edge cruft? SDTV surely does

[19:53:46]

jrr:

I found the service manual on scribd, and you have to sign in with facebook to access the pdf

[19:53:53]

justinh:

every now & again I find myself wondering why live stuff on ITV still features the phasing wobbly box

[19:53:59]

jrr:

I hate the internet sometimes

[19:54:09]

justinh:

I hate the internet all the time :-)

[19:54:17]

stuartm:

justinh: only one one or two of the crappy channels in my experience (and this is using a monitor before anyone suggests that I'm not seeing the cruft due to overscan ;) )

[19:54:22]

justinh:

especially facebook! Just sign in anyway

[19:55:12]

stuartm:

justinh: itv might do it, I think I can count the recordings I make from ITV 1 on a single hand – excluding a spate of recent films on ITV HD

[19:55:32]

justinh:

stuartm: my X output isn't set quite right & I get to see all sorts of stuff at the top. half lines, timecode...

[19:56:18]

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[19:56:20]

stuartm:

justinh: weird ... I never see that stuff

[19:56:28]

justinh:

only SD mind

[19:57:01]

stuartm:

and my 16:10 monitor means that the picture never extends all the way to the top of the screen, so I should see it if it was there

[19:57:28]

justinh:

wife is watching emmerdale at the mo.. and I can definitely make out the top line isn't complete

[19:57:52]

justinh:

it starts about 2/3 the way along the top scan line

[19:58:12]

stuartm:

worst I see is the occasional half-line, mostly with old animated stuff

[19:59:25]

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[19:59:42]

justinh:

I see it most on local BBC stuff

[20:00:29]

AndyCap:

but does VBI even exist in digital? or is that artifacts from analog to digital conversion?

[20:01:02]

justinh:

AndyCap: yeah, VBI stuff can exist just fine

[20:01:07]

stuartm:

hmm, I don't watch local BBC, I read the news on the BBC website instead so I don't have to listen to inane chummy banter between the anchors

[20:01:10]

AndyCap:

justinh: in the picture?

[20:01:15]

justinh:

AndyCap: yes

[20:01:47]

justinh:

AndyCap: not much of it still around though

[20:01:51]

stuartm:

AndyCap: yes, it can exist, but it's less common in the UK where everything moved to digital – e.g. DVB subtitles and MHEG

[20:02:38]

justinh:

more prevalent on DVB-S than anywhere no doubt

[20:02:41]

AndyCap:

so then the picture is 720x625+vbi?

[20:02:47]

stuartm:

some Freesat HD channels still use 'teletext' subtitles for some reason

[20:03:21]

AndyCap:

but teletext on satellite is a different pid isn't it?

[20:03:31]

justinh:

AndyCap: no, 720x576 isn't all active video

[20:04:09]

justinh:

or 702x504 or whatever crud res they use

[20:04:12]

AndyCap:

ETSI EN 301 775. sliced vbi in dvb

[20:04:26]

AndyCap:

cheapo freesat? quarterframe probably. :P

[20:04:48]

justinh:

low res looks better at poor bitrates :)

[20:05:01]

stuartm:

heh, I dunno, freeview seems to be the worst offender for low resolutions

[20:05:24]

justinh:

well, QVC *would* opt for a 56k bandwidth slot :D

[20:05:57]

stuartm:

if you ignore all the crap on satellite, which I suppose defeats the point of comparison :)

[20:06:43]

justinh:

right. I need a day off or so.. so I can a) update the backend storage b) get rid of stinky packages and c) start a-hacking again so I can shoehorn channel icon support into the PBB

[20:08:38]

justinh:

ugh never noticed this before either.. in the EPG stuff that's going to be recorded isn't getting the time shaded by the big shader thingy

[20:10:41]

justinh:

how does nobody else notice this kind of thing? heheh

[20:15:38]

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[20:15:43]

EvilGuru:

Freesat tends to look worse than Freeview, for the same channels, IMO

[20:17:46]

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[20:18:28]

EvilGuru:

Not sure about the HD stuff, not getting Freeview HD until later this/next month

[20:19:55]

** AndyCap doesn't use the EPG all that much **

[20:20:04]

AndyCap:

mythweb ftw.

[20:25:35]

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[20:31:39]

wagnerrp:

anyone around who has used FBDIMMs?

[20:33:33]

AndyCap:

only stuck it in a machine.

[20:34:17]

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[20:34:21]

wagnerrp:

ever have a problem with memory not being detected

[20:35:36]

AndyCap:

Not really no.

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[20:56:45]

justinh:

eh? <showcategorycolors> isn't working here. it's in the wiki but isn't working

[20:57:57]

wagnerrp:

youre running master?

[20:58:41]

justinh:

nope

[20:58:49]

wagnerrp:

that may be why

[20:59:49]

justinh:

sigh

[21:00:42]

justinh:

yup, grepping the source reveals that indeed the widget doesn't support that tag in this version

[21:01:12]

justinh:

I need to get my coding back. have to look into helping out with this stuff

[21:10:11]

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[21:26:43]

wagnerrp:

mmm.... wiki spam

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[21:41:48]

sphery:

wagnerrp: no, I'm just not yet finished with those pages...

[21:41:52]

sphery:

:)

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[22:47:23]

sphery:

wagnerrp: thanks for fixing my wikipedia links :)

[22:48:44]

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[22:50:30]

wagnerrp:

im not talking about yours

[22:50:42]

wagnerrp:

im talking about the two pages i deleted, and there is no longer any mention of in the history

[22:54:03]

sphery:

yeah, I was just joking about the spam one... but was glad to learn something new about the wikipedia links

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wagnerrp:

nooooooooooooooooooooo!

[22:56:49]

** wagnerrp just dropped a perfectly greased xeon butter side down on the bottom of a dusty server case **

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iamlindoro:

On the plus side, the bottom of the case is ever so slightly less dusty now

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